Gracie & Victoria Garrick Browne on D1 Volleyball, Mental Health, & Perfectionism

You know what I love? I love being underestimated. Me too! Being underestimated is fucking gasoline in my tank. Oh, literally. Nothing gets me going more than that. I was a ghost of myself, and I remember my mom, and like, and like miserable, and like crying all the time. I was in a major depressive episode, and my mom was like, that's it, like, I'm pulling you off this team. Like, what room is your coach in? I'm knocking on the door and saying, like, you're coming home with me, and like, you need a break. And I was like, no! You can't! She's a former Division I volleyball star at USC, viral TEDx speaker, and mental health advocate who's reshaped conversations for young athletes. As founder of The Hidden Opponent and host of RealPod for seven years, she's built a powerful community inspiring millions to embrace self-love and authenticity. Victoria Gehrig-Brown, welcome to Athletes After Hours. Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. Honored to be a guest. So proud of you. You've been crushing it. So welcome to the podcast world. Oh my god, it's so insane. You've been such an incredible inspiration. Like, watching you from afar and then getting to be on the pod was just such a special moment for me. I think it really helped click for me to see what it's really like behind the scenes, running a podcast on your own, like, full girl bossing. And you've just been an inspiration to me for so long. Thank you. Thank you for allowing me to enter into your world, be on the pod, and see what it's really like. Because it did help me kind of get that extra boost of confidence. Confidence to just full send. That means so much to me. I'm so grateful that Molly Carlson brought us together when we did that diving video because I feel like we've just clicked ever since. And yeah, your episode on RealPod was so special. I feel like when I asked you or we were talking about it, you hadn't been on that many shows before, which is crazy because you're literally such a natural. Aw, thank you. I would have thought you've been doing this for so many years. But yeah, it was so special. And you opened up for the first time about your body image issues. And I think we were both crying. And it was like… It was really great and so well-received. And I'm so glad that we had that. And now, I'm so glad that you came on my show before I ended it. And I'm so glad to now be on your show. I know. Me too. I was like, oh, shit. Like, she's ending it. Yeah. I mean, we can get into that in the little later part of this episode. But I want to start from the top because we just discovered that we are both walk-ons at UCLA and USC. So we just hate each other. No, I'm kidding. I know. It's a rivalry episode. We're rivals. We're rivals. Yeah. Honestly, I'm wearing red. Blue. Oh! I swear we didn't plan this. I still, like, won't wear blue and yellow together. I'm so done. Like, I feel like it's giving to UCLA. Like, someone the other day was like, we should do blue and yellow. And I was like, I simply can't. Absolutely not. Yeah. It goes against everything I believe in. I mean, that's like me and red and yellow. Yeah, yeah. I mean, even when my brother went to USC, I remember going to a tailgate and I wore, like, a USC shirt. And I got roasted by my team for, like, multiple weeks. You did that while you were an athlete at UCLA? Yeah. Wait, that's really diabolical. I know. That's crazy. But in my head, I'm like, it's not personal because he's an ARP and I'm an athlete and USC doesn't have gymnastics. So it's not personal. I guess, you know what? Because USC doesn't have gymnastics, like, why would you, what is the rivalry to you other than just being like, whereas I think with volleyball, like, that's the crosstown showdown. It's always the conference opener and the conference closer. Like, so actually to be on your side here, because there was no team. There was no team you competed with. I get it. No real rivalry. It's not that deep for you. Ours was Utah. So, I mean, still red, but yeah. You probably would have never worn a Utah shirt. Exactly. That, yeah, that's a no-no. That's a big no-no. But let's jump into it. How was your experience at USC? It was so many things. You know, now that it's been so many years, let's see, 2015 was the year I started on the team and joined the team. And 2019 was the year I graduated. It's now 2026. So as the years go on. I feel like anything in life, you reflect like super positively and you think about the way it shaped you. And, you know, playing division one volleyball, I had some of the darkest days of my life. And then I also had some of my most proud moments where I accomplished things like I maybe never thought possible for myself. So it's both. And I think that's something we're always all learning is something can be both. It could be my highest highs and it was my lowest lows. I mean, we just talked. We talked about how we were both walk-ons, which is so cool. And we both contributed to the team immensely, even while being walk-ons. I felt like we kind of changed the narrative for all walk-ons out there. But do you think that being a walk-on, having that chip on your shoulder and being kind of like that underdog mentality maybe negatively affected your experience in sport because you took things to an extreme? I definitely think it gave me fuel. Like, actually, something happened in my life like two weeks ago. And I was like, you know what I love? Me too. Nothing more. Like, nothing gets me going more than that. And so, you know, I think I remember my freshman double days being like, I'm going to be the most energized, the most hardworking. I'm going to be the first in the gym, the last to leave. Like, I'm going to be all these things. And like, you know, prove myself. And I started. I started in the first game as a freshman. And I started in every game until I graduated. Period. And you know what? That's something that as time has gone on, I'm like, and I did that. Like, why don't we celebrate ourselves? Like, even when I was playing and I was starting and I was doing well, I would think to myself, oh, but this must be a fluke. Or it's just a good week. Or but tomorrow and next game, you could mess it all up. And like, and you'll realize that you're not that good. You know what I mean? Yeah, the imposter syndrome kind of started. Yeah. And so now that I'm. I'm older and I'm past that. And I'm like, and you know what? The more that time goes on, the sooner there is going to be some stud that like knocks me out of the top five most digs and I won't be in there anymore. So like, while I'm there, you know what? Let's talk about it. Period. We need to celebrate our accomplishments. And like, yes, I think Simone Biles actually has done a great job of like wearing her little goat necklace and like all the things and being like, I'm the greatest. Being unapologetically great. That's true. And I think when male athletes do that stuff. People view it as inspiring. Like Kobe Bryant, people like, as they should. Yeah. And Kobe is like someone I, I look up to and he's amazing. And he's actually like had a hand in my nonprofit, which was so special, but like he, you know, he had that about him and that's something that inspired a generation of men, you know? So I, uh, yeah, I think female athletes especially should like hype themselves up. I know maybe we should start doing that so we can help inspire more people to do that because it is, it's a wave of influence. Right. Right. And I feel like, unfortunately for women, we do kind of have to take a bit more heat if we are hyping ourselves up and if we are comfortable in our skin, because I don't know why society just wants to like tear you down. Well, you can't win because if you are not liking yourself, which is what they want, they're like, no, think you're beautiful. Love yourself. And then I'm like, I love myself. I don't need to change. Like, oh, my God, she's so full of herself. She's so cocky. I can't believe she's saying that. So you literally can't win. So at the end of the day, with everything in life, you have to do what makes you most happy and fulfilled. Yeah. Tea. Mantra. Yeah. I'm out here working on that, to be honest. Wait, I love this. I do feel like I'm too old to do it. Never. If you're listening and not watching, Gracie and I are doing the little like pocket thing. I think it's like a little baby applause. Oh, is it? In my head it is. Wait, that's so cute. That is so cute. I didn't know what it was. It's like a mini golf clap in my head. Oh, my God. That's so cute. I love it. I think other people are like calling it something else. Like they're clocking it. But I'm like, no, in my head, it's a little mini applause. It definitely is a mini applause. That's where I feel like I'm too. I'm right on the border of millennial and Gen Z. But I think a lot of the things I do definitely lead more millennial. I had a Gen Z person working for me for a little bit and it made me feel so millennial. Really? Yes. Which is crazy because we literally live on TikTok and Instagram. Like, that's our job. But I still do. Like, I guess using the like crying, laughing emoji is like choogy. I'm sorry. I like using that emoji. What emoji do you use then? You don't use any. I don't know. Oh, humor's dead. But I love emojis. OK, me too. I love emojis. I emoji like my like dad. Yeah. I will literally emoji until I die. I emoji like a parent. Yeah. I'm so dead. Oh, my gosh. Well, obviously you had a roller coaster at USC and I can completely relate because my experience. I mean, we already know when I hopped on the pod with you, I shared like a lot of my experience at UCLA and just how like athletics. Really like pushed me to my breaking point. And I mean, was there a time in your college career where you hit a breaking point and you maybe thought like, should I just quit? Should I stop? Like, is this for me anymore? Oh, my gosh. My mom and I were actually reflecting on this a few days ago. I forget what sparked it, but there was a game actually speaking of Utah. I think we had just played the Utes in Utah and I was in the hotel room and I think my parents had come to see that game or something. And I was like so pale. I had broken out everywhere. Oh, I just looked like a ghost of myself. I don't want to say a shell of myself because I for sure was like gained the freshman 15 was really struggling with food. Like I was a ghost of myself. And I remember my mom and like and like miserable and like crying all the time. I was in a major depressive episode and my mom was like, that's it. Like, I'm pulling you off this team. I'm knocking on the door and saying, like, you're coming home with me. And like, you need a break. And I was like, no, you can't. Like, I like Stockholm syndrome. Like, I loved it so much. I was so into it. And I remember too, like something that motivated me was wanting to be the libero. My freshman and sophomore year, I was a defensive specialist and I knew that by my junior year, I could step into the role of libero because that girl was going to graduate. So, you know, it's like, I think that actually is something too that kept me in it for a while. It's like, I want to see if I could, if I could be the one to be this position. Yeah. Um, so yeah, you know, I definitely, I experienced some of my darkest days to this point because have I, have I gone through things post-college that have maybe on paper been harder than what I experienced as a division one volleyball player? Yes. However, when you're 18, 19 years old and you've never experienced a mental health struggle to that severity and you don't have the skills and you're so green when it comes to. Asking for help, identifying what you're feeling. Like it was so, I felt it was such a one 80. I had no idea what I was experiencing that it, it hit me the hardest because later in life I had gone to therapy in school. I'd gotten out of a depressive episode. I'd been on and off an antidepressant. So I felt like I was like more prepared to, Oh, I know what's happening. Recognize. And here's how I could work through it. Yeah. But when I was in college, I mean, I, there was a point I was struggling with suicidal ideation just on my way to practice, like biking in the morning. Like, what if I just kind of swerve into traffic because I don't want to live this day. Like, so yeah, it definitely got dark. Vic, I had no idea. Yeah. Holy crap. Which is crazy for me to think about now because hopefully it's coming through for people listening, but like, I love life and I feel so enthusiastic about living and the world and opportunity and relationships and joy and like all these beautiful things we can experience. Yeah. But I was once in a place where I wasn't seeing that. And like, I remember for me, my big moment of like, Oh shit was like growing up. I never understood like suicide. Really? I, I, it didn't make sense to me. I was like, why would someone not want to be here? And I remember there was a moment in college where I was like, Oh, I get it. Like I, I, I see. Yeah. And that just goes to show how at that point in time, like how low I was mentally. Right. Because now flash forward, I'm like, I don't see it. Like bring me to the person who's feeling that way because I want to grab them by the shoulders, give them a hug and be like, no, like tomorrow is a new day. There's so much ahead of you. This is a, this is a small blip in time of your magical life. Like don't, you know what I mean? Don't react to how you're feeling now because it's temporary and there's light at the end of the tunnel. Um, so yeah, it's, it's wild for me to reflect, but that's, that is the truth of how I felt during those days. Yeah. And it was, it was like reaching out to a therapist, which was very scary when I first did it. Um, I saw a therapist for the first time, the end of my freshman year of college and was like, I feel so like lost the fact that I went to a therapist. Like I'm very type A, I have my shit together. I've always felt that way. So the fact that I was going into an office, raising the white flag and being like, I can't do this on my own. I feel so like, I don't have any answers. I was just, remember my first session ever in therapy. I just sobbed the whole time. I barely said anything because I was like, Processing that I was even there. Um, and then it was summer break and I was like, never doing that again. And then sophomore year came back was when I was even worse than experiencing what I was describing just then. And then I went back and, uh, that's what helped me heal. Wow. What was the main trigger for you to really have these suicidal ideations? Um, I think it was just the routine and demand. Um, I do think things are a little different now, maybe even more wild because of the NIL stuff and the content and the brands and the pressure of everything. Yeah. But at least when I was a college athlete, I mean, six hour practice block, full units of class, you know, lifting, training, coaches, meetings, film, you know, I just felt like I was waking up on autopilot. And every, and I felt like I didn't have time to waste. I did not have 30 minutes to chill or to go get my nails done or like hang out with my friends or be a normal kid. Right. Yeah. You're a full-time student, you're a full-time athlete. And I think it was just like, I just felt, and then the pressure, we were the number one team in the country. We had not lost a game. I was playing with the national player of the year. Like it was so exciting and so intense. Like, I mean, I just, I just really, my performance anxiety took over. It was just a hodgepodge of the, the constant pressure every single day. And I just wanted a day to not feel that pressure was really what it was more so than it was like, I never want to meet my future husband. I never want to have a wedding one day. It wasn't that it was just like, I want to press pause and I simply don't feel like I can, and I don't know how to, but maybe if my bike swerves left, like I can take a break. And like, I realized how fucked up that is. But it's just where my mind went as like a young kid who didn't have the, the tools and the resources, but, or I didn't know I had the resources because once I reached out for help, the amount of people that were there to support me, I mean, the privilege I had as a D1 athlete at USC, where once I did need help, USC gave me everything I could have needed, which kudos to them for it in 2016, having that. Yeah. Because now in 2026, holy shit. A decade later, we're still seeing schools that don't have enough resources for their students. I think what's so fucked up about the whole thing too, is like, unfortunately, in extreme levels of sport, we normalize this behavior. We normalize feeling burnt out. We normalize pain. We normalize feeling so unbelievably done with everything. And I can completely relate because it's like, I think back on even like high school experiences, like crying every day at practice. And that was like normal. It's like, oh, what a win. I didn't cry at practice today. Like what the hell? Why are we pushing ourselves to this level? And I think what sucks is that we hold ourselves to such an insane standard because we don't want to let people down. We don't want to let ourselves down. I feel like you're similar to me in a sense of like, you always have a chip on your shoulder. You always have something to prove. And we like being underestimated. We like proving ourselves, but it sucks when we have to like, abandon our mental health and abandon ourselves to get to that result. And here's the thing, like you and I both had successful sports careers and we struggled in this way, right? So, and look, to be successful, it's going to be uncomfortable and it's going to be tough. No one gets to the top of their field or their craft and it wasn't tough. However, there is a difference between mental toughness and mental health. And I always like to share this, especially when I know athletes are listening, because we need to know the difference. Like when is it, hey, this is just what it takes to be a champion. Or when is it like, this is too far. Dr. Michael Gervais, who's one of my favorite high-performance psychologists says, mental health is the foundation for sustainable high performance and mental toughness is the bridge between the two. So if we're going to run a sprained ankle, like you won't be able to run the marathon. Let's think about that as mental health. When you show up to practice, like you want to be mentally well. If we're walking in dealing, we're in a depressive episode or we're really anxious, like we're already starting with a shaky foundation. But once we can make sure we're taking care of our mental health, then yes, we can walk the bridge of mental toughness to become a high performer, but they're, they're slightly different. Like, does that make sense? 100%. And I think what, we also forget is like, there is such an emphasis on pushing through and it's like, well, what are we pushing through on? Like if you're pushing through a sprained ankle, you're hurting yourself more. But if you're breaking through a barrier or an obstacle, like that's what you need to realize is like, there's a fork in the road and you need to recognize, okay, is this actually going to help me get stronger or is this going to weaken me mentally, spiritually, emotionally? Yeah. And, and I think also people know themselves. Like, you know, when you're in practice and it's just a tough practice and you are not touching the ball right that day, everything feels off, but you need to keep playing in this drill because when you feel this way in a game, like you need to have the reps and the muscle memory to lock in. There's a difference between that and being like, my parents just called me and told me they're separating and I've had zero time to process and I'm walking into practice and my coach is yelling at me and I've been talking shitting to myself all day. Like, you know what I mean? And people can't see it. It's an invisible injury. It's all happening in a place that no one knows. So it's up to us to identify and feel comfortable, like seeking help for that, talking about it because we have no one to advocate for ourselves when we struggle with an invisible injury. Yeah. 100%. I never really thought of it like that. Like that's so trippy, but it's so true because when you do go into practice with this mindset of struggling profusely in your mental health, you take everything so much more personally. It's not just a sport anymore. It's like it becomes who you are. It becomes your life. It becomes very, very personal. And I remember like when I was struggling in my mental health, like when just gymnastics wasn't going right. Like my whole world felt apart, like fell apart. And I think when we stop putting so much emphasis on our mental game and like being the best and being the sharpest and being at the top, it's like, I think we can be a lot more in tune with our mental health because we're not kind of clouding it with all these results and all these distractions of success. And when your whole world is your sport, that means if you have a bad day in your sport, you're having a bad day in your world. But if we have solid friendships and people who love us because of who we are and not because of what we do on the court or the field, or we have hobbies that we love, like I know my knitting kit is going to be there. I know I'm going to come home to my little goldfish that I like to play with, whatever it is. And it's so independent of how I perform. We then create foundation that's unshakable based on how we play. So that's why it's so important to you for athletes to have something outside of sport that also shapes their identity and who they are, because that's actually going to give you the better opportunity to be good in your sport than it is to have your sport be your whole world and then be at the whim of how you play that day. Yeah. You're such a great speaker. I have to give you your flowers. You're absolutely incredible. I always am like so profoundly impacted by your word. So I just have to tell you that. Thank you. And years of speaking about this and my work with a hidden opponent. Yeah. It makes sense because this is something that you've been preaching for a long time with your nonprofit, but also you've been publicly speaking for a long time as well. And you did a TEDx speech your sophomore year of college. It went viral. How was that? That was crazy. It was such a big vulnerable moment for you. And then for you to get such a big positive result from it, how did that feel? Yeah. I mean, I think it's so important from it. How did that feel? Yeah. At the time it was scary because if you Googled athlete mental health, pretty much nothing came up. You were not seeing what you're seeing today with all these incredible people speaking up about it. So in 2017, I felt so alone when I was at home at night in my twin dorm room sharing with my roommate, Googling, why do I hate my sport? Why am I depressed? Athlete depression. And I couldn't find anything. And so with the TEDx talk, I just really wanted to create something that would come up on the other side of that search. Wow. Seriously. Like I wanted to know another athlete who Googled this, the video would come up and they would feel less alone. And I'm so grateful for the reaction that it had. I mean, that TEDx talk truly changed the trajectory of my entire life. I went right into public speaking as a senior in college. That was my first job out of school was touring and speaking to athletic departments and student athletes. That's insane. Yeah. Like, can you just take a moment? I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, can you just take a moment? Like, that's actually insane. I know people in their late 30s that are like working to do that as a career. And the fact that you were able to do that fresh out of college, like, was that an incredible experience? Or do you think that it kind of also maybe on an opposite side of things, like, threw you into something that you were like, okay, then the identity crisis hit after the fact? Um, it was a massive distraction, you know, yeah, after college, I definitely think, I mean, it was so rewarding, and I really enjoyed it. And it was awesome to do. And I always even in the moment, I would think, wow, I'm going to reflect on this one day and tell my kids, like, I used to travel the country, and I used to speak and like, I'm really grateful for it. Um, I definitely think 100%. Like I was the USC volleyball player who was a mental health advocate. And that was very much my identity. And that became the identity of my career. And the reason that I had a job and meeting all those student athletes at those talks, is what got my wheels turning of like, how can we create a community that is for the student athlete. And that's what led me to founding my nonprofit, the hidden opponent, which still exists and is thriving today. Last year, we had a big five year anniversary party of the nonprofit. And I went, yeah, it was so good that you're there. It was so cool. Yeah, we had we have 1000s of campus captains, or we're student athlete ambassadors. So if you're a student athlete, and you're listening, and you want to be a leader, you know, we are arming today's generation of student athletes with the education tools and resources to be mental health leaders. So it's been so great that that, like, I'm so because I did the speaking THO was born. And I'm so glad that it was because, you know, now in my life, I haven't played a competitive sport on a team since college, you know, we're talking about that 2016. It's 2026. It has been 10 years. And I definitely have evolved and move forward in my own life. And I am not traveling and speaking about this anymore. So I'm so grateful that the nonprofit is empowering today's generation of athletes who are out there right now who have stories right now that we publish and who can speak and just really pass the baton. That's so cool. You've just completely empowered the next generation of athletes to use their voice the way that you did and speak in, you know, relevance to what's happening right now in athletics, especially with all the NIL stuff. Like I can't even imagine being in this day and age because like I missed it by like one year. Yeah. And it's like I just talked to a UCLA gymnast who's currently on the team. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, and I asked her, I was like, how are you doing? Because like, I already do content. We do content, you know, it's a full time gig. And so then to have to do that on top of school and social life and sport and recovery and rehab, it's like, where the fuck does it fit? You know? But then you see these multimillion dollar contracts. And it's like, how do you not feel like you're not enough? Yeah. How do you not compare? It's so interesting. And I honestly want to have some more conversations with athletes from all spectrums, the ones that are like slinging these huge deals, the ones that aren't but are hustling like, yeah, I and I don't know, like, yeah, I'm so curious about it. I mean, I was creating content and vlogging as an athlete. So I can remember what it was like to be like editing videos, bringing my camera on an away game, like doing all that, but not getting paid for it. Yeah. So I'm like, it is amazing that athletes can now be paid for their name, image and likeness. Like I couldn't monetize a YouTube channel that was getting 100,000 views, which is crazy. That's crazy. Um, so I'm so glad like, and this is the way it should be. The question is just are the parameters in place to support the athlete with now this whole influx of additional expectations and pressure? Yeah, it's it's a different ballgame. And now you have so many people expecting you to do even more than what you're already doing. And I just I mean, I already hold myself to a high standard. I don't know how I would crash the fuck out. To be honest, I already know. You've been on your social media, you've been very open and candid about your body dysmorphia, your body image. You've done an incredible job at encouraging other people to love themselves and love their flaws and embrace their bodies. How did you get into doing that? What kind of inspired it? And how do you feel about it now? Yeah, I feel like I've been thinking about calories and my body and diets since I was 12. Honestly, like same. Yeah. Like, I try to track back, you know, what is the first thing that sparked this all in me, but I definitely grew up in the day and age of, you know, the Victoria's Secret fashion show and America's Next Top Model. And, you know, when on the cover of OK magazine was like shaming people for their bodies that we're seeing now are totally normal. Oh, they're like literally at the beach and they're like, oh, my God, Jessica Simpson has back rolls. And I'm like, this is the cover of a magazine. Those Jessica Simpson photos today. I'm like, it's like the Mandela effect. I'm like, that's not the photo that you guys showed me when I was young. Oh, wait, it is. But you brainwashed me to think that that body was so not OK. Yeah, it's insane. I like. Yeah, it's crazy. I got into talking about it online because as an act when I got to college, like, I just like I was thrown in this pressure cooker. And so my body image issues and my dieting and all that got way worse. And then I developed a binge eating disorder. And I actually didn't talk about that in my TEDx talk because it felt it even felt too scary to talk about binge eating because it's not like the glamorous eating disorder. I'm like, hi. So, yeah, my problem is like I inhale everything like at night. I will eat thousands and thousands of calories like it didn't. It wasn't glorified on the way that like other eating disorders are glorified. And so I was really ashamed. And I actually fell into talking about that accidentally because I did an interview with a magazine and they were it was one of those things where they did like a 45 minute interview with me and then pulled like two minutes to be like the interview clip. Yeah. And they leaned all into the eating disorder. And I remember when I saw the video, I was like mortified. Like, it used to be listened from minute one to minute 45. Like this is taken out of context. Yeah. And like pulled and then they like put in B-roll of like a girl reaching for pizza. No. And I was like, this is this. This feels raw. This is the end of me. So I was like, I'm not posting it. I'm not sharing it. Like, sorry, I did that interview. Never. Peace. But then, of course, people saw it who were followers of the magazine or whatever. And they started messaging me. And so I started to get all these messages of like, oh, my God, I also think I'm a binge eater. And I'm dealing with this. And so I actually want to give so much credit to the people who messaged me because once I saw all those messages, I got the confidence. confidence to be like, Hey guys, this is the eating disorder I'm struggling with because I knew there were other people out there. Um, and so, and you know what, so I'm grateful. I'm grateful that that was the cut of the clip because it led those people to messaging me and led me to talk about it openly. So, um, yeah, you know, I feel really grateful to be in such a good place with my body and food today. I mean, if anything, the more the years go on, I have to like literally remind myself what my toxic thoughts were and what my toxic habits were because I'm so in the, yeah. And I'm really like glad that that's happened. Um, and I really want to credit, um, intuitive eating for being the approach to food and framework that healed my relationship with food that I'm so passionate about. It's a mindfulness framework that basically asks you to listen to your body. I love it. I mean, our whole lives we've been told, you know, eat three big meals a day. No, eat six small meals a day, stop eating after seven, actually stop eating after six. You actually should fast until noon. You shouldn't have gluten. You shouldn't have dairy, no carbs. Actually carbs are good. We have just been told what to do. We've never actually sit back and said, wait, am I hungry? And if I really listened to my body, what do I want to eat right now? Do I want a cold crunchy salad? Do I want a warm cheesy quesadilla? If we throw calories out the window, we throw judgments about what food is healthy and not healthy out the window, which actually is going to satisfy me. And you build off of that and it's the best way to eat. It's how babies eat. It's how we were supposed to eat biologically speaking. So it's really getting back in touch with your biological cues. I love that. And I, I always kind of take that one step further for myself too. And I noticed like, okay, if I am trying to push my body, obviously, yes, you do have to be like mindful about what types of food you're putting in your body, chemicals, processed foods, all the things. Like no seed oils. I'm like very almond mom. That's hard to do. I know. There's seed oils and everything. There's seed oils everywhere. I have to move to Europe. But like taking it one step further and being in tune with my body so much so that I recognize, okay, my skin's breaking out. Why is my skin breaking out? Oh, there's biotin in some of these drinks that I've been drinking. These protein shakes that I just love to grab and go because it, whatever. And it's like, okay, maybe I can try to find like a more holistic approach to this protein intake. How can I like, being toxic, but just genuinely recognizing, okay, like my joints kind of hurt today. Did I eat a really inflamed food yesterday? And I think there's truth to understanding the different nutritional values of a variety of foods. You know, like a bag of Doritos is not as nutrient dense as a vegetable juice. It's just not as nutrient dense, but that doesn't mean that you can't enjoy Doritos if you don't want to enjoy Doritos. But to your point, like there are people, yeah, who get really in tune with their body and they know how you want to feel and how you want to feel is a huge part of intuitive eating. And I remember thinking about this before games, like how do I want to feel out on the court? I definitely want to feel like full. Like I don't want my stomach growling while I'm on the court, but I also don't want to be so full that I don't feel like I can move quickly and like I feel sick. So what are the foods that are going to help me feel satisfied and feel really energized out there? And that's such a great way to look at it versus like, I'm going to eat this or not eat this because I want my body to look this way in my uniform. Leotards, man. Don't trigger me. We low-key had similar, like leotards is- Oh, y'all's outfits were tight too. Yeah. No, yours was definitely, it's a step worse because like the booty's out too. Yeah. But like, well, I guess we had, no, our cheeks were covered. Your cheeks sometimes come out, not you specifically. Ours were very much, oh no, mine were very much out. I would get some really gnarly DMs while I was competing. Saw you at the bar today. Like literally they would play our gymnastics meets at bars in front of one man. You're like, I'm sorry, I can't help it. I have this big fat ass. I'm literally 18 years old and this skimpy ass leotard. Like what? Yeah. It's crazy. Or like, I remember when the student section's behind you while you're surfing and like, I'm in spandex and I'm like, oh my God. And you're diving and you're sprawling around. Yeah. It's crazy. But volleyball players and gymnasts, we've got that bond. We do. We really do. I know every time I talk to like a diver or a swimmer, I'm like, y'all get it. Swimmers too. Y'all get it. Yeah. Well, after graduating, you did go full throttle. You grew your social media. You started going on tour, delivering talks. You built a nonprofit. You hosted your podcast. How the hell do you juggle it all? Because like just asking for a friend, because I'm out here like trying to grow boss. I'm getting a little too close to the sun. You know, entrepreneurship is a grind. Of course, it's a grind. And it definitely was. It's going to be that way. Like in the beginning of anyone's journey to like build a company or have different projects or build their own brand. And I, I feel like in my, the beginning years of my career, like, of course it was a grind. Like, I'm looking back at old pictures recently and seeing like my notebooks and my whiteboards and the metrics and all the things I did and the hustle. And like, it's a huge reason why I am where I am today. And then also as I grew, like being strategic and learning to delegate. And then when you're in a position to hire someone, I remember my friend, Katie Austin, I was at her house like years and years ago. And she was like, oh yeah, my employee. And I was like, you have an employee? And she was like, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I have an employee. And she was like, yeah, if you don't mind me asking, how much do you pay your employee? And the number she said was what I make in a year. And I'm like, you're at a place where like what I'm making in a year is what you can actually afford to just then pay someone else. You make your own money for you and then your apartment and then your stuff. And I was like, wow, that's insane. And then flash forward a few years and like, I'm paying an employee and it's like, it's crazy. So shout out Jenna. Yeah. Shout out Jenna. Shout out Jenna. Yeah. Shout out Jenna. Yeah. Shout out Jenna. Yeah. Shout out Jenna. Yeah. And starting to look at things as like, how is this going to move the needle for my business, for me or for my life? And if it's not moving the needle, I'm not driving to West Hollywood on a Tuesday night when I want to watch TV with my husband, you know, you pick and choose. You're a lot more selective. Yeah. I'm learning that right now. It's painful. Yeah. I one time even brought my mom, I brought my mom to an event and I was like, do you want to come with me to this event? Like, it's going to be so cool thing. It's just so cool. And like, you know, the event's kind of far away. It's in the middle of the day. We drive there. And she says to me, she's like, I love my mom. She's always just like, check. She's like, she could be like a Kris Jenner, but she also couldn't, like she isn't, but she has the mental thing. And she was like, she was like, I mean, what do we do here? I'm like, what do you mean? I'm like, well, we're like at this event. It's so cool. Like there's like, look at the popcorn. There's these things. She's like, but I mean, like, isn't this like a waste of your time? She's like, you know, we just, it's two hours in the car, the event's two hours. She's saying everything that we were feeling. She's like, isn't there more that like you could be doing with your time right now? That's like more important. And I was like, yes. I'm like, oh my God. I'm like, you're so right. I'm like, why did I think I have to say yes to this influencer event and go to this thing? Like not all, you know what I mean? Like anywhere I go, correct. And like anywhere I go now, I'm like, it's because there's conversations I want to have. It's because there's a way I can move the needle. It's helpful for me content wise. Sometimes of course, there's going to be great human beings there and it sounds fun and social and it's a free meal. And I would love to be a but then other times, yeah, I'm making the decision to use those hours to allot to my business in a different way. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, what you say yes to is going to pull you away from your other opportunities that you create for yourself. And like, I've had to have some really tough moments for myself as a, I feel like even though I'm like very blunt and I like say how it is and I don't care what anyone thinks, like I am also still a people pleaser because of the athlete in me. And I feel like I'm, I'm like, I want to be coachable. I want to say, yes, I want I like recently had to say no to an opportunity and it was like brought to me by my old coach. So it like really tested me where I was like, oh shit. Like I only said yes. Cause I wanted to make her happy, but I didn't really recognize like, okay, how much of a toll is this opportunity going to take on me? Is it really going to enhance my work? Is it pulling me away from other opportunities? And it's just, it's such a hard lesson, but it's so important, especially I have as much time. I don't have as much flexibility as I used to. Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. And knowing like, what's the right thing. You know, I am so grateful to all the people who mentored me and met me for coffee and like, let me pick their brain. This thing going around right now. That's like, no, you can't pick my brain. I hate that. I'm sorry. Like I, have you seen this thing where people are scared to use the term pick, pick your brain because people are like, don't ask me to pick my brain. Like, and, but I just think people are innocently, like there were so many people I was like, I'd love to take you to coffee. I'd love to do this. I'll drive to you. I'll accommodate you. Can you call me while you're driving to the airport? Like I have 10 questions. I'd be so grateful. And people took the time to do that for me. And so I always want to make sure like I'm taking the time. I just got a DM the other day from a USC student working on a project. And I'm like, you know what? Yes. Because I have some time right now this month, email me the questions and like, I'll get back to you and like, we'll make it happen. Am I going to drive to downtown LA and get lunch with you on campus that I can't do, but I'd love to be a part of the project in like a how to give back because so many people did give back to me. I was going to say, cause you've been there, you've been in those shoes, you've hustled, you've grinded. And like, now you're at this beautiful place. position where you can be selective but you can also give back and you have the ability to do so and like I think that's so cool it's so full circle it is tough though when like a former person that you know reaches out you can't here's the other thing you gotta tell yourself Gracie is like if you said yes to everything you would actually not have time to do the things you do that then generate the people asking the question because it made the impact you know what I mean yeah so and I'm realizing it's a marathon not a sprint me and my producer are realizing that well it's mostly me because I'm like hey let's do this and people are like oh my god how many podcasts have you recorded I'm like 11 like launched for literally two weeks yeah like I'm insane no that's smart though you're getting ahead of it always but I do think being present especially in this day and age with everything feeling like it's on an autobahn is so important like touching grass and touching sand and taking time for you because like yeah you're if you're not filled up how are you going to give to other people was there a time in your career where you were like I'm not giving to myself at all and you kind of had to fully revamp your enterprise or like your your business I feel like a year and a half ago ish I definitely had to re think about all my systems and like how I was spending my time actually I think the biggest example of this is like I used to be super type of person I used to be super type of person I used to be super type of person about my calendar and so if we looked at my calendar like every single minute from like nine to five would be uh like accounted for including like 10 minutes to drive to the studio like 30 minutes of prep before this podcast oh you are type a every yeah I can send you some of these they actually I can't believe I woke up and I live my life this way um and I thought that was the way to do it because I get very like black and white imperfectionist with my thinking and I'm like I went on the calendar because I'm gonna pull up the calendar and the calendar's bible I'm and it was also draining my creativity because like if the calendar said to be doing this I'd be doing this and then I was like wait now I'm not even making content I'm not even feeling happy and then like content is the we always say and at least Jen and I it's like content feeds the machine like content is the thing that then helps me do the other things I want to do and so if we're not watering that's the tree we water to have plants you know that we also water so I just thought about it and I was like I would love to like if I if the calendar says I have six things to do that day but it's already determined the order the time the amount of time versus me waking up and looking in my asana which is a platform that we use to manage project management seeing the six things there as just like here's the title of the task and the things I need to get done just a to-do list it's so much better for me because I wake up and I'm like oh I'll do this one first and then I'm running right into this one and oh my gosh this took me less time than I thought so I'm gonna go grab lunch with Max now I'm gonna do these and like I get the same amount done in a day if not maybe more I feel better about it I'm happier about it and it's all because we're doing it right now and I'm like I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do this and I'm we got off of this like psycho calendar mode to instead using this project management tool so I guess that's something recently that's like a change I've made well and now you have autonomy on your day and you get to take control of it and you get to have the creative freedom to be like oh my god this sparks an idea for a TikTok I want to do let me knock that out right now right and then you have the the wiggle room to be able to do those things because I feel like I literally it's like you're literally saying exactly what I was thinking yesterday because I've completely neglected my short form content because I've devoted so much time to filming my sports swap and then also the pod and obviously adding a massive project onto your plate something's gonna give right something's gonna not be as fruitful as it used to be and I'm like but content's what's fueling everything content's the reason I can do the pod content's the reason I can do the sports swap content's reason I can pay someone to help me and so recognizing like okay let's not cut yourself off cut yourself off at the legs because you know you're thinking about the arms kind of thing so I feel you yeah but we're learning we're growing I'm always here for you text me anytime I know that was the coolest thing to to come off your podcast and I don't even know how much time had passed I think it was like what three four months maybe where I texted you and I was like hey I'm thinking about starting a podcast this is like back when I was so scared to tell anybody because I was like if I tell people it's gonna hold me accountable and like I have to fucking do it and I remember texting you and being like do you have any advice like can I pick your brain and you're like girl yes of course this is so exciting so to you for you to give me that nudge and like give me a little advice and just some tips on like how to approach it was so cool because I mean seven years is a long time I know it is crazy how are you feeling about ending that chapter yeah um because you just announced it literally like a week ago I I announced the end of my podcast real pod my little audio baby a few weeks ago um you know it was a decision that took me a lot of time to come to because I love the show so much and almost to our conversation just now about like looking at systems sometimes you just get in a routine and you don't realize like when something should end and I loved it so much um and dead ass some of my most favorite conversations I've had in my life are like I've ever had in my life are on that show and I feel so blessed they were recorded and if anyone's like what do you mean go listen to the jeffrey sod episode that came out I think in the past 12 months and it's titled this will change your life cancer survivor jeffrey sod just search jeffrey sod real pod and listen to that episode that's one of the best conversations I've ever had in my life wow um and am I gonna cry it's it's it's no it will make you want to live the happiest joyous life and run through a wall oh that's so don't let cancer survivor make you think it's gonna rent pull your heart out because jeff is the he's sunshine so it's a must listen I think for everyone but I say that to say like I'm so grateful for all the memories and the things the show brought me but it is so much work as you know it is a lot of time invested and I think just like with moving and this new chapter of my life and thinking about family planning and all these other things I want to talk about and you know a new type of show I want to create and I'm like it was just time you know and it's sad and it's hard but no one's gonna make the choice but me I have to decide when the show ends and it felt like time yeah everyone was so sweet about it and I love reading everyone's messages and the episodes will always be there so you can always go back and listen to your episode yeah real pod yeah I love it I think what's so cool too is I mean what we think is ever set in stone like that's kind of the beauty of like adulthood is like we can just pick up and move to Europe if we want you can always change your mind it's never that deep yeah you can always pivot you can always change your mind and the beautiful thing about our jobs is like we have full autonomy like we are the bosses so if we want to go back to recording podcasts whether you rebrand or whatever like you can do that and I think that's so empowering and it does help decision making because you don't feel like you're stuck in cement yeah you feel like you're in this flow state and you can do that and I think that's so empowering and it does help decision making because you don't feel like you're stuck in cement yeah you feel like you're in this flow state kind of just like go where your heart's taking you and I think there is nothing worse than being stuck in a world where your heart isn't in it and I can completely speak on that because I think that's the quickest way to burn out is like doing something that just doesn't fill your cup that doesn't make you tick and you're like how the fuck did I get here why am I here like we've kind of lost the plot a little bit so I'm really proud of you for being able to make that decision I know it I know you thought about every such a situation every pro and con and I did yeah it just kind of felt like it was like this roaring fire I actually got this like vision when I was on my van trip with my husband we went and lived in a van for two and a half weeks speaking of you can do anything you want yes we were just like you know what well it was really me and he was like my wife's going crazy but I feel like I have to say yes I was like I'm renting a van and I want to go live in it for two and a half weeks and I want to basically run away let's drop off the grid yeah so we did that and it was a roaring fire and I've been chopping wood and throwing wood on it and like I feel like the fire is kind of dying out and it's becoming like these embers and I have this visual like me with like a stick like just keeping the sparks alive and I'm like why am I doing this let me appreciate this fire for how beautiful it was and like it's time to let this fire like burn out and yeah that's and I was just like yeah I feel clarity there I love that and I think there's something to say too about leaving something when it is successful like it's not like it fucking wasn't successful yeah I know 10 million downloads is insane I know people are like wait really I'm like wait oh my god was it a bad choice no I'm gonna like remind myself I'm like no I know I made this decision that's because society like measures happiness on success and it's like we're not doing that anymore yeah we did that all throughout college we did that through our lives because of like athletics and it's like we're grown we don't need to rely on success to make our decisions anymore yeah because you can be successful at whatever the fuck you want to do you can be the best knitter ever you can be the best mom you want to be like you can completely pivot and be successful in your own right in any way shape or form and I think that's what's so cool about you specifically because you always have a fire under you so whether that fire goes out somewhere that fire is going to reignite somewhere else and I already know I'm excited for the next the next chapter me too me too I'll be back on the mic soon you know it is people were like I hope this is a rebrand I'm like it kind of is like I'll be back in the podcast world thank god your voice is needed out there you're so sweet well I also have a question for you I have a question for you I have a question have to recognize that we are not in the studio today we are in a new house yeah you are full-blown girl bossing and I'm so excited to hear about how this whole process was yeah it's crazy um this is still I think the first week in my house that you're here recording with me um yeah Max and I bought a house yeah it's crazy we feel like just so grateful and lucky and like have just been soaking up every moment of it so it's been amazing it definitely is a very stressful anxiety-inducing um stressful experience yeah but now I feel like all that kind of chaos in the that part of the buying a house is for the most part done so it's great I'm just so happy to be like cozied up on the couch like all the paperwork is done yeah like damn I did that that's so crazy in LA mind you that is not an easy feat thank you so congratulations thank you thank you that's so exciting thank you what's next um I I feel like I was for the past maybe year and a half like doing obviously working hard but I think I was not definitely at my full throttle and not like at my highest and best I guess and I definitely feel like I've had so much change recently in my life with like ending my podcast moving into this house um I've had some internal switches like in my business. Like I almost feel like if my world is like a snow globe, I just picked it up off the counter and I gave it a big shake and I'm like really excited about all these pieces and like where they're falling and like what's possible. So I just feel like really motivated and energized. And yeah, I feel like I have that like spark of ambition kind of back in me. And yeah, I just feel like Max and I have said with the house, it feels like we're kind of like stepping into our lives and like it's scary and it feels – it's a huge commitment, you know, like something like this. And I feel like we would just tell ourselves like we're made for this. Like we – the two of us, like we are made for this. You guys are a team. You're a unit. This is where we're going to actually be our best. Like stepping into our life and like having a healthy like newfound motivation and like reason to grind and like you got to pay the mortgage, you know? Yeah. So I'm like it's exciting and like we love that. And so it feels like a really healthy shakeup of life. So we'll see where the pieces fall. Yes. We mix up the feng shui. Yeah. I love that. I feel like that's so necessary sometimes when you just feel a little stuck. And I think this is the best switch up of all time. I know when I was like grabbing my lip gloss or something, I heard you say the vibes in here are just so like happy. And I was like immaculate. I feel that way. Immaculate in here. Like dream house. I love that for you. It's such an inspiring moment too for me because I'm like, damn, maybe I could buy a house one day. Yeah. You will. You're such a stud. Oh, goals. So we have a little segment here on the show just to wrap things up because I love giving advice to our listeners because we have a lot of wisdom. We have a lot of things that we've been through and I don't want anyone to feel like they're alone in their journey. So first question is what would you say to an athlete who's tied their worth to their performance? I would say let's start to untie that. Let's grab the little string and start undoing the knot. And first I would start to look for things that you love outside of your sport. Think back to like your childhood before sports got really competitive for you and think about the things you love to do and bring those back into your life and start reattaching your identity to a variety of things. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. I would say just finding hobbies that really fill your cup that have nothing to do with athletics. Like that has been such an exciting thing for me at the age of 27 that I've discovered is just like, you can do other things, babe. You don't have to just do gymnastics. And like doing this podcast, I feel like I'm going to be able to do other things. I'm really helped too. It just give me a lot of worth and give me a lot of things to look forward to that have nothing to do with my sport. But okay. Number two, with all of the insane noise surrounding GLP-1s and weight loss drugs and stickly thin celebrities, influencers, and public figures on red carpets, what would you say to a girl who's watching all of that right now and is very impressionable? I would say it makes sense that those things are affecting you because what we see constantly does affect us. And I would encourage you to follow some more amazing accounts and celebrities who have different bodies and who celebrate natural beauty and who make you feel good about yourself and not like you have to change yourself. Because if you start to bring that into your feed and you start to curate that, you'll feel your self-confidence go up, your self-esteem go up. You'll feel less pressure to change. So I would recommend that as a tangible tip. And then I would also just say, I want to validate that. I get it. It's everywhere right now. It's so toxic and it's insane, honestly. I think so many of us feel that way. So you're also not alone. Yeah. I feel like cutting out the noise, protecting yourself, putting a filter on things to really just protect your mental health and protect your warped perception of what beauty really is. I've caught myself. Getting sucked into the warped perception of beauty right now and seeing so many women with lip filler and Botox. And it's a tough time when you're entering into like your late 20s, early 30s, where you notice like, oh, I have a wrinkle there. And like, oh, I have smile lines. And it's like, can we not celebrate that? I'm smiling a lot and I have lines to show for it. That I think needs to be talked about more. It's hard because when you're not seeing it, as much than when you see it on yourself, you're like, wait, something's wrong with me. Yes. Which is why we need more people who are like not doing those things. And then we can help uplift and relieve the pressure to get plastic surgery. Yeah. And also like, you're so beautiful and unique. Why would you want to look like everyone else? It's true. We need to bring back celebrating individuality. I loved your post the other day about lip filler. I was like, wait, yes. Baby claps. Yeah, baby claps. All right. Third and last one. How do you balance being ambitious and driven while protecting your peace and mental health? I'm so glad that this person asked that because I feel like I created the tool that answers this question perfectly. And that's, I use my planner every single day. It's called Booked and Balanced. I sent Gracie one. And it's for people who want to be booked, but they also want to be balanced. And like, I am a busy gal, but also mental health is so important to me. And so, I mean, I designed this planner with so much TLC. I mean, every day starts with three deep breaths. So you can really ground yourself. There's a mood tracker. So you can check in with how you're feeling. And then you've got a must-do list. Because we're getting shit done. There's a habit tracker. I also put in this every day, you write down three good things, which is a positive psychology exercise designed to train you to look for the good in the world. Every day you come back and you're like, what are three good things I saw in the world today? And so, honestly, I mean this wholeheartedly. My planner has helped me so much because I'm someone where when my anxiety lives in my head and all that, it can just like really consume me. I have a page every single week that says declutter your mind. Vomit on the page. And yes, I like will brain dump all my anxious thoughts. There's an intentional pause page where you can write what you're proud of, what you want to release. So I would recommend you go to victoriagrackbrown.com and you shop my planner and it will help you balance it all and get shit done. Yes. And the colors are so aesthetic, you guys. I have the little neutral cream one. I'm obsessed. And then this is the espresso. And then what's the blue one? We have a few more blue left. There's gorgeous color. We're calling it bloom. It's stunning. So if you want blue, there's a few more. There's espresso and there's cream. You can't go wrong. No, you literally can't go wrong. And also we need that in our lives, especially I've heard writing stuff down is also psychologically so, so good versus being on your computer, being in front of a screen. Like I've been trying to find hobbies that require no screens because I've been, my screen time has been absurd. So like I literally like bought a puzzle the other day because I was just like, what's something I can do that's going to take me away from my phone? And like I got fucking locked in. Yeah. Actually in the back of the planner, I put a page called I love doodling. So you can just like color. Uh, I love, oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for welcoming me into your new home. Of course. Thank you for having me. Of course. It was weird not having you in my podcast studio, but I'm like so grateful I got to see the new place and we got to just touch base and catch up. Thank you so much. I loved being on your show. I hope everyone enjoyed it and reading for you. Love you. Good luck with everything. Thanks, Gracie. All right, thank you for tuning in. I'll see you next Wednesday. I'll see you then.