Gracie & Seth Wilmoth on 13 Marathons in 13 Days, Ultra-Endurance, & Chasing the Impossible

everybody on my team my support team that was on the boat got seasick on the way out jumping into the choppy water a bit nervous cold and then knowing psychologically that if you start to shake and go and get too cold your body temperature drops it's really dangerous it's really dangerous and it's hard to warm yourself up once you're back in that position yeah today's guest has spent his entire life testing the limits of what he's capable of from becoming a two-time naia national champion in the pole vault to running marathons and ultras completing an iron man and now taking on some of the most grueling endurance challenges you've ever seen earlier this year he completed gold rush running 13 marathons in 13 consecutive days across california's 13 eco regions most recently he traded land for sea swimming the catalina channel from catalina island to the mainland in nine hours and 50 minutes you're insane for that by the way now he's turned his love of pushing limits into a career as a creator endurance athlete and now documenting what happens when we get uncomfortable face the things that scare us and find out what we're actually capable of seth wilmoth welcome to athletes after hours thanks for having me it's a pleasure that was really well written you made me sound so i was like i didn't i didn't write that that's awesome but thank you for the introduction of course you can just keep it on repeat for your ringtone if you ever feel you know insecure you just listen to it yeah you're alarm every day when you don't feel like training i sound really cool yeah you're like oh this is why i do it so i train so when i first found you i found you obviously through instagram one of your videos popped up i saw you completed this insane catalina challenge where you swam for nine hours and 50 minutes first of all can i just give you your flowers that's the most insane thing i've ever heard thank you and for a girly that's scared of the open ocean i'm like couldn't be me but i'm right there with you i'm right there with you i'm okay we're gonna get into this for sure but i also when obviously we started talking and we connected i found out that you also are a pole vaulter and my audience knows that i've tried pole vaulting a few times and it is very fun but so humbling wes was there and he literally watched he witnessed the most insane training day ever we got freaking torched out there in the sun and we were training with olympic pole vaulter alicia newman and i just have to know like how did you even get into pole vault it's so niche great question wasn't really planned in i went once i got to high school i had done soccer and i'd swam and done a little bit of running but i was burned out of the sports i was doing specifically swimming i didn't really want to swim in high school anymore so this is my sophomore year i kind of seasoned opened up and i had some free time and my best friend was doing track so i get set track and i started with the 400 1500 thinking like long sprinting could be the thing for me and then eventually i saw people pole vaulting in the sun and i was like oh my god that looks way more fun that looks way more seth in in general i think my friends would agree and so went out tried pole vaulting my dad had done it when he was growing up so had someone to relate and talk to about a little bit um and basically like the rest is history just started that year it went well i loved it so unique and so not as much not as much running not much sprinting and just the stuff that i loved which was so much fun and i was like oh my god i'm gonna do this being crazy and doing flips and being acrobatic and whatever it was i can relate yeah i was gonna say do you know what i'm talking about why it was so appealing and did it my sophomore junior year and by the end of my junior year it had become a potential i could continue to do this into college wasn't planning on it necessarily but the opportunity presented itself and so kind of put the feelers out there and through my senior year got a few opportunities and wound up going to westmont wanted to stay the opportunity to stay in california help get some of my school paid for and that sort of thing and do something that i loved um i was all in yeah and that was yeah and then jumped into collegiate pole vaulting that's crazy i think it's so ironic that you're an endurance athlete now but pole vaulting is like three seconds it's polar opposites and i think from what i've talked to most pole vaulters hate running in general 100 they're jumpers like it's they're like i will run for literally three seconds and that is all and i think knowing me back then it would seem a little crazier but towards the end i think it's so specific that was the only thing that was difficult about it is and maybe you can relate when you're doing something so specific it limits the things that you can try the things that you can do outside of that and as someone who just loves fitness and and trying different things after four years i didn't want to get injured i took it super seriously and so i think by the time i just wanted to just start you know just run you know that feeling of just like yeah i just want to do anything that's probably where the running started yeah i could go on a 10 mile run and i don't need to be at practice tomorrow and my legs don't need to be fresh not that i even want to run 10 miles but maybe that sense of breaking free from a bit of the structure um was really exciting to me and that's not to say i didn't have an absolute ball doing it in college but by the time you got i got done i was ready to try some different things yeah 100 experiment a little bit i mean i couldn't agree more like that's why i literally do sports because i i don't know i don't know i don't know couldn't do any other sport growing up and so i like was itching to try literally everything when i retired like the first thing i did was i tried snowboarding and i was like sending jumps like i didn't have to care if i got hurt or not obviously i care a little bit more now that i you know i don't really want to get hurt now but trying new sports is like truly one of the most like invigorating fun things you can do i think as an adult because it's humbling it like forces you to kind of reflect on like who you are and how you respond and your attitude and how you do towards things and like i don't know it sets you up for success in so many other aspects of your life you're like oh i can just try shit like there's no such thing as failing you just try and like you've won couldn't agree more yeah it's it's humbling and you meet incredible people and get getting to show up vulnerable and ready to learn again and again it's just one of the best practices i think you can do that's probably why i loved it so much i love it so then what is something that you've always wanted to learn that you haven't learned yet i'd love to get more into climbing okay um i could see that i would love to do that i would love to do that i would love to do that very outdoorsy yeah i would say climbing i mean there's so many things and different sports i want to try that's one that's just been on the radar because i love the travel aspect and the simple nature of you using your body your your new challenges every time you do anything yeah it's so unique um and the culture is just cool and and seems really rad to say the least so i would love to try that um and naive to think that i could i know it's way harder than it looks i've but climbing strength is just the little like intricate muscles in your fingers like one of my best friends is a climber and i just like i'll watch her and like her back muscles like i'm like i didn't even know those types of muscles existed like it's the most insane sport and i think it's also very mental like you have to be very smart and like it's kind of like chess yes in a way so i think that's really fascinating but it's also physically grueling so you're not like i don't know i think i kind of compare it to like golf without the physical demand like golf isn't as demanding but it still has that mental aspect totally yeah yeah that's a cool one the other one that popped in is diving but more traditional diving as a swimmer i would always watch that and then i wound up doing a bunch of cliff diving like cliff i shouldn't say diving cliff jumping yeah yeah much more reckless and had the most fun time but the reason i turned away from it is because if you're not careful i had like i had a micro tear in my mcl and i was like it's just not worth the risk yeah it would be cool to get into a setting where i could actually learn the proper environment it's controlled um and get to jump off a platform and potentially do flips and that sort of thing yeah um i've done how to do it yeah i could imagine off this off the springboard's tough i'm not gonna lie like i might prefer a platform just because the springboard feels like you're literally on like a waterbed compared to like a trampoline but yeah it's a trip anyways we could literally talk about sports for hours but i want to know how you transitioned obviously you talked about getting into like running but like how did you transition after your collegiate career i feel like a lot of athletes this is kind of why i love this podcast but like have identity crisis and struggle with that transition i know i did how was it for you i definitely i struggled with that as well it was one of those things where the feeling that i was describing where i was just so excited to have free days to go in the gym and lift i grew up that was probably my first introduction to fitness so to go in and lift go for a run go for a bike do you know whatever i wanted to for a period of time was really gratifying and was just i'm free but then that wears off and normally i'm training for something specific i was gonna say then we don't have structure there's no structure yeah the freedom is like a blessing and a curse and so my mind i'm like bouncing off the walls trying to figure out maybe what what i could put into motion and set some structure to and i think it started with a half marathon which at the time was was huge you know i'd done a 5k over thanksgiving it's probably one of the longer runs and a bit across country when i was really young but distance running wasn't totally a thing santa barbara had the santa barbara half signed up and that was the first this was maybe two years and i think i was really itching to just train for something and that quickly i did it somewhat casually but wound up being a thing where i was just just fell in love again with the training plan yeah and this is really cool and to see the progress um and it was humbling it was really difficult but as soon as i got done with that it wasn't even that my mind went directly to i just want to run farther i think that was the initial moment where it was i just knew that i wanted to continue to train for different things i loved running but it just instilled in me that i can potentially train for anything that i'm interested at the time yeah that was running and so the next thing became a marathon it was a you know popular thing to do but i knew if i could run a half i know i could put myself to the test and run a marathon which skipped forward you know a bit of time i wound up doing and it was not pretty the first time at all i think with some of my accolades of running you know consecutive marathons and all that might seem as though i was always a distance runner or love distance running i mean four years ago yeah four years ago is when i did this first marathon and it i cramped i was on the side of the like with a hamstring cramp towards the end conked out felt like death the last i mean that's a common story when you're running a marathon but it was not a success in a lot of ways um but that almost invigorated me more because the process is so fun and leaving with that knowing okay i did train i had so much fun during it there's there's still something i want to prove to myself um and it's not a failure it's just a learning lesson like yeah i love that the standard um and just fell in love with that and so it took me a while to understand i needed to understand why i cramped what in preparation there's just so much you know there's so much you know there's so much you know there's so much room for growth yes and yeah progression which i think is exciting so excited that's yeah that's the the fun part so that's because you have a growth mindset which you kind of have to have you have to have you have to have so that just launched into the consecutive merit like running and marathons and the iron man different things um but yeah it didn't last to your point did not last long coming out of college having that structure and then being like what this is nice the next few years i can just i can enjoy whatever i want just train but i don't know i always needed something um that fix to to train and i and i think that's a good thing too because the structure at least for me allows a really good learning platform it's not always about the learning that you do in that individual sport but what you're going through in your life and how it applies and yeah like how you find the balance and the and how do you juggle everything like i feel like for me when i graduated well coveted into my career so it was like a bit of like a hit me like a mac truck like holy shit i guess i have to like get into the gym and like be a normal adult now and i remember i ran five miles every day for like a very long time until i got like runner's knee because i was so stressed and i didn't know how to cope and i never really worked out in like a public gym before so i still to this day like have no idea what the fuck happens in a public gym like i'll like look at equipment i'm like okay i can like do handstands against this wall like i don't know how to use any of this stuff so that was a huge adjustment and i ended up just going back to the gymnastics gym and training there anyway so it kind of saved me but i noticed like i can only do like i personally thrive in like a workout class because i've been coached my whole life and i've had that structure and i think too like being your own boss like it's kind of mentally exhausting and then the last thing i want to do is come up with a training plan and like build up the motivation to then train to like my highest level so then how do you create this motivation while simultaneously being your own boss and like building your brand great question um and just real quick to that point it's so relatable too because a lot of people think because i have done strength training and lifting for so long if we work out together it's like take the lead and it's like actually i just want like if you have something you want to do be my guest that's the best when somebody can lead and you can follow after doing that but um to answer your question i think i've always had sort of a self-drive i think it's it's building what's helped me a lot is trying to build systems around what i do to put the the i don't know any drive that i have to keep going and accomplish something and put it into something productive and that i want to accomplish um because without boundaries and or you know structure to my life it just breeds anxiety for me and so it's been a constant effort to set up an environment um that creates structure and it looks like a standard day and i have time blocks i have things that help me along because left my own devices it is really tricky to find the drive find the self-motivation even though it's there and i want all these things that doesn't mean i can just sit down and be productive i can navigate how to get to these lofty goals that i have whether that's strictly physically and what i'm accomplishing or on the business side and growing the personal brand and things like that yeah and so i think it's it hasn't been easy but i've done my best to look at my life and my schedule sort of as though i'm just running a business and i'm and trying to create structure for a team even if it's just me yeah that's so smart you know how does my morning start i used to do when i was working a more standard job run meetings on monday and go through a number of things and so i try to structure my week a little bit similar to that and it's really helpful i love the freedom of being able to if i need to pick up and go or go join someone or do something that's the best part about being self-employed in this way yeah but come be on a podcast in the middle of the day exactly and that's the best part but i still need to bake in a fair amount of structure to my day you curate that structure though which is exactly exactly it's i need to do that it's it's somewhat custom um which is great i'm still learning i'm still learning things that are working great and things that aren't working because there's always new challenges yeah even though as things grow it's more complicated and when priorities have to shift too yes especially when you're training like when you're you know working normal like you can prioritize work but then it's like if you have a massive challenge coming up like let's say i don't know swimming to catalina island your other things have to probably get put on the back burner huh yeah yeah and it's that differentiating what needs to come first in order to get this and you know if i'm documenting having the platform to show you what's going on and what's not going on and what's not going on and what's not going on and what's not going on and what's not going on and what's not going on and showcase this but if i don't do the training then you know what is this all for yeah and so it's you know caused me to get really creative and become super super efficient with my time in many ways that's what i love about some of these aspects of training when it demands a ton of time is remarkable what you can do when you need to get a certain amount of things done oh yeah you know what i mean i'm a procrastinator so i love to get myself like a very very early timeline and convince myself that it needs to be done like four or five days in advance because otherwise i will be waiting till this minute yeah and and the reality too is it's not even as someone who's training for these things and wanted wants to take the training as seriously as possible it's not always pretty it's not always how you would imagine where i show up to the track at 9 a.m with all my gear ready it's it's 10 30 p.m and i still was i was supposed to run 10 miles and i just ate because i had to and i was doing this yeah so we just adjust the workout but we get through it it's just it's not always pretty and that's i think more relatable hopefully to the standard person then definitely not always i try to curate really great perfect conditions to train yeah but it's never that simple and just getting used to being adaptable and that's especially for endurance athlete it is always about how you can react to your environment and react to different things and variables that either you used you're used to or you're not i don't know i don't know i don't know and that's sometimes a blessing in disguise when you have to work training around a busy life for a busy schedule when you're flexing that muscle too you're like little do you know you're putting in the reps to be adaptable to be resilient when things don't go your way and then it actually sets you up for success more in the long run when you do those challenges because you know okay i've been put you know against some stressful situations before and i handled it fine so i've kind of flexed that muscle i've done that rep so you have the confidence to take it on but i do think it's really endearing that you talked about like the relatability of not having everything go to plan or not having a structure that actually is sound because there are so many people that i think talk themselves off the ledge of doing these really hard things because they know that they can't have a perfectly curated schedule and it's like well look like you're the perfect example of like you still get it fucking done like whether it's you know at 10 p.m or at 4 a.m and you're like oh my god i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired i'm so tired and it's like i think it's more just the attitude and the approach and understanding when you go into something like that that it cannot be perfect because i think if you go in with that expectation like you get defeated so quickly yeah and it feels like it's out of your control which it's not a hundred percent that's yeah and i have i haven't that hasn't been something that's just been obvious this whole time i think it's been a curve of understanding and setting my not setting expectations too hard for what that looks like especially as an athlete yeah he was on a team and did have a lot of pressure and a lot of pressure and a lot of pressure and a lot of a more traditional schedule now it's on my plate to figure that out but i think it's more and more it's that 80 20 of what i try to tell people you're it's okay to miss workouts occasionally and yeah go into the gym and you thought you had an hour and you have 15 minutes that doesn't mean you just walk out there's still stuff you can do you're still getting the 80 but if you let that you know the slip ups and that sort of thing and you overemphasize the weight of that then then it just tumbles and it's really hard but it feels heavy it feels really really, really heavy when if you just show up consistently, Consistently over a long period of time, it is remarkable what you can do. It doesn't have to look near perfect. My training sure doesn't, you know, but we do the best we can. Yeah, my coach always said 1% better. And I think that's such a feasible, tangible goal every day. And it doesn't even have to apply to fitness. It could be like, oh, I'm going to be 1% better in my personal life. I'm going to be 1% better in my reading. I'm going to read an extra page or whatever. You can be really creative and I think it's a cool mindset because you're constantly searching for growth and searching for opportunities to get 1% better. But speaking of running, we have to talk about this marathon thing because what the fuck? I will say I love interviewing endurance athletes because it always inspires me. I'm like such an energy matcher. I'm like, okay, wait, now I kind of want to run a marathon. I'm like, shit, if you can do 13 in 13 days, I'm like, I'm just being a little bitch. Like, that's what I want to tell people. Not that they're being a bitch, but you can. You absolutely can. And that's, it's cool. It's so empowering. If you wanted to, you 100% could not. And I don't want to encourage people to not train for something or not be prepared. But yeah, I think there's, there can be a stigma around a crazy amount of training. You want to show up prepared. Of course. I highly recommend, but sometimes like there are things that you can do that you would surprise yourself. And sometimes it just takes like signing up and maybe occasionally coming in a little bit less prepared than you were, you know, than you were hoping. But at least you're showing up and you're learning and it might not go to plan. And you're like curious. And you're curious and you don't let it stop you knowing like what we were talking about earlier, perfect circumstances for a training block. It's like you could go run a marathon tomorrow if you really had to. Yeah, it got into my head. I think I could. Yeah. If you had, you know, you have the grit, you 100% could get it done. So that's part of where the whole 13 in 13 sort of stem from. Okay. I mean, beyond the structure of the eco regions, which I could get into. I think a lot of it coming out of the marathon and my mindset and maybe wanting to inspire or demonstrate to people that I was like, I never thought I could run a marathon here. I just did it. I'm not special. I, I've, you know, I'm, I'm hard driving and I work really hard, but that means anybody can do it. And so what, what more could I do? And seeing all the ultra runs and things like that, I, there was probably some sort of conversation where it was like, you get done with a marathon and it's like, if your life depended on it, could you go run one? And it's like, well, yeah, if my life depended on it, if my family's life depended on it, I could probably go. So then it was, okay, what if we created a cool challenge? I'd loved running marathons so much and a big part of me, I love nature and I'd studied biology and wound up going down ecology evolution route. And so was learning about all that stuff through college and just feeding a lot of my interests and somewhere along that line had learned about the eco regions and a lot of what makes California so special, extremely diverse. Uh, the ecosystems, ecosystems are insane. Oh yeah. Stunning. It's, it's just incredible from north to south. And so at some point through my marathon blocks and wanting to just do more with the endurance thing, those kind of came together. And I remembered learning about the EPA class two eco regions that there was 13 and I was like, that's a number that's not too small, but not too large to do something consecutively. At the time I didn't know is running. Even just to go road trip through each one of those. But at the time I was running and I, at some point I was like, what if I ran a marathon every single day in each one of those? Um, cause there's nothing better to, I love trail running. Yeah. And after having started doing some content and documenting runs and incredible places and getting to share that and inspire people to go out, you don't just have to go outside and run. There's so many cool places, whether you're in LA or you're anywhere in the world, there's so many cool places. So that all came together. Um, and I wanted it. I have a fundraising background prior to this. Um, I worked for organization for, for five years and still working in some forms with them. And so it was familiar with fundraising. I have a, you know, big passion of mine. So it's like, how can we draw some of the attention to something good and make it relevant? And so, and give you like purpose. Yeah. Give purpose and get people excited about it. It's not just about easier to not back out to when there's a lot of people riding on you. Exactly. You're asking for money. Yeah. Yeah. That's actually. You're a genius guys. Who's going to pay for me to run a marathon? There we go. There you go. Put, put your money where your mouth is. You got to do it. So that helps really cool. And I just put it out there. California state parks foundation was an awesome partner and just seemed, seemed like a great fit. I've had so many incredible memories growing up and as an adult in state parks in national parks. Yeah. It's like, let's protect it. Let's protect it and show that again, you can go and run in anywhere. It does. It doesn't have to be running. You can hike, walk, just enjoy the outdoors. So that all came together and you raised like 10 grand. Yeah. That's awesome. It's remarkable. I love, I love so many aspects of social media. Of course it has its downsides, but the upsides and things like that where you can draw attention to something like that and raise 10 grand for an amazing cause. Get to hopefully inspire people to run. I opened them up to the public so I had most of them were open and I had people coming out there who ran. Their first five K, their first 10 K, they didn't have to run the full marathon, the first 10 K, their first half marathon and their first marathon. And there's just nothing more special than getting to run alongside someone who, you know, makes a breakthrough or comes to a point where it's like, I never thought I could run this far, do this, hold their hand along the way. Yeah. Yeah. And hopefully some advice, hype them up, hype them up and hype me up to like when people come out, makes marathon eight and nine and 10 a lot easier. When you know you have people that are preparing to join for the last few and everything. It's like a run club. It is. Yeah. And the best part, that's why I love running. There are so many moments that are very individual and you find that. Like isolated. Isolated, which is great. I love processing and thinking on a solo run, but there's also just nothing like joining, whether talking or in silence, being present with people, getting some exercise, running, exploring, being outside. Yeah. Yeah. All that stuff came together and we got it done and it was really special. I was going to say, I feel like coming from a team sport, like as much as obviously gymnastics is individual, it's still very much like a team and I definitely miss those aspects. And so whenever I do like a little run club or something, I'm like, oh, I love this. Like, I don't know, like wolf pack mentality. Like it's so powerful and you just, it eliminates all the struggle. Genuinely. You're like, oh, we just lean on each other. Like it's light work. Yeah. Comparison to like an individual run. And maybe just because I'm also, I love being distracted by like other people talking to me. So it really helps with the running part because I feel like also with this job, it's very isolating. I don't know how you feel, but like I've gone done some pretty dark rabbit holes of just feeling like so isolated and like alone. So like, how do you deal with that when you have to train for like hours and hours and hours alone? Great question. And super relevant, especially to the swim. Yeah. Because that was. You can't even talk to people. So much more isolating and tricky. And so to be transparent, there were so many aspects of the swim that was hard and training and the fatigue and everything like that. The hardest part was finding myself in such isolation during that time, even though the incredible support system and friends and live with, with people that support me so well, but still when you're working on this day in and day out, it can feel very isolating. And then to compound that with training for swimming, where sometimes I go to a public pool, even when you're there, it's very seldom that you have conversations with people. Yeah. Everyone kind of does their own thing. Everybody does their own thing. And I was trying to join groups, but also it's just hard to, you're training for something unique and piece that together. And then the other half of the time you're in the ocean and that's as isolating as it gets. Um, we got the sharkies with you, trying to make friends with sea life, harder than I was expecting. They weren't, uh, they weren't receptive, but they, yeah, I mean, to, to answer the question, I mean, first off, I would say I, I struggled with it. I, I, I'm still trying to figure out ways because this won't be the last endeavor that probably puts me in a similar position to that, to find ways to get out of those ruts and, and stay connected. And I think it's just, it comes down to making intentional time, even when it feels tiring, tiring, it feels unproductive. And that sounds terrible to say. But making time for my, my friends, my family, my loved ones and strangers and just anybody you meet the things that I, I, I mean, distinctly remember there were moments where having a rough morning, hard to get out of bed, even though I'm doing, I'm living what feels like my dream and it really is, but what's like, why is it hard to get out of bed? I just have to go train. But from the moment I wake up to the end of the workout and sometimes the rest of the day, it's just me thinking through this. And so what would break me out of that was I'd be at the pool and someone would come in and someone would lean over and just start a conversation and just human interaction, you know, sometimes literally just talking to someone can, can break you out of that. And that was just a reminder. I need to continue to prioritize spending times, spending time with the people in my life that I love so much and making new friends and making connections. Even if it is, it isn't working on growing my brand and working on these projects, which feels like needs a thousand percent focus. I wish I had more time for it. But in reality, if I don't have that foundation that grounds me it's really hard to get out of that rut and that's what did it it was i was like i need to pick up more social things invite people over like just relax and communicate with people it doesn't have to be about you know everything that i'm going through just to chat with people yeah and kind of like ground you a little bit and like get you out of your head because for me like i don't know about you i feel like it's the athlete in me that just like is so unbelievably self-critical sometimes and then i'm like i need to go touch some sand or touch some grass or talk to somebody because like i'm clearly losing the plot here like and and i remember one time like voicing things that i started saying to myself when i was kind of going down that like hole and my friends like you say that shit to yourself i'm like yeah dude all the time like it's the most insane stuff that like the intrusive thoughts really take over so yeah i always have to like schedule in like time with people and i remember like there was a time where i was like so isolated i had just moved to south bay and like i was living alone and i remember like when i it was when i started doing content full-time and the only thing i could look forward to was like talking to the grocer at the grocery store because i was alone so much and i was like okay i gotta figure out a way to like shape this job to match my personality because there are creators that thrive being alone like they're very introverted and i'm not like that at all i hate it so but i'm also not that productive when i'm around people like i can't really co-work because i just like to yap so i'm not that productive when i'm around people like i can't i think yeah finding that balance and like remembering that it's not a deficit it's kind of like like i feel like athletes are like especially fitness people are like rest days are bad but it's like no they actually like give you the fuel to keep going and they like kind of reset that button for you and yeah i don't know and i i heard this recently that really struck a chord but it was loneliness is equivalent to smoking six packs of uh cigarettes a day i believe it it's like a killer i believe it and i remember just being like oh my god like i don't want to die from being alone yeah it's crazy yeah it hurts and you don't always have the choice but often you have more of a choice than you realize yeah and it's self-induced and you sort of pull yourself up and you're like what am i doing i've got all these wonderful people in my life and i need i need to make time and it gives us energy yes because it is more and more than anything in this world for sure i know we always like think that it's gonna like drain us and then we're like oh i actually i feel so much better now now i can like run 13 marathons yeah yeah that's what it that's what it takes okay so then we get into the swimming how long after this uh marathons did you decide okay let's go into the ocean instead so this at the prior to announcing all the running stuff at the end of the beginning of 2026 i had already kind of planned out what i had the year to look like and that was structured around land sea and sky so i knew that i was going to be swimming afterwards but what the hell is sky you're gonna do a squirrel suit or something the longest squirrel suit set we'll get to that it's been a process but okay we figured it out i'm excited he's gonna run on a treadmill in the sky hanging from a higher run around the moon yeah there we go but so i had this structure planned out i knew that i was going to be swimming after the catalina swim you have to schedule it like a year out because you have to work with the federation you have to get a charter boat all the stuff safety bow okay i got it you need to book that i mean that's overkill but they recommend it's like at least a year you should be talking to somebody about your date when you want to do it so this was locked in early and then towards the end of last year i was like can i do both and i was like heck yeah i could do both and and then i kind of thought of the land sea and sky and i was like what do you mean do both i'm meaning i can fit both in in a year in a year again just pushing the boundaries of both these things in one year within three and a half months of each other i mean i guess yeah your heart your cardio is probably the best it's ever been after but it's still different like yeah it's so it's the train it helps to be in that training mindset but i finished running the last marathon in early may and then i swam in the middle of august and so we went um were you training all the swimming stuff while you were training for the marathon yes but not as much it start i started open water swimming the end of last year in the fall getting used to it and kind of working on my fear of the ocean which is very very real yeah but i was still only swimming a few times a week and then as it got to the spring i had to pretty much sole focus on the running yeah so i anticipated swimming a bit more but by the time i'd finished my runs i had cooked i was not in the the swim shape that i was expecting to be yeah with that sort of lead up but fortunately again i i can come i grew up swimming i started swimming from a young age okay so you have the good technique i have the technique which is a huge paddling all the way to catalina yeah got it so a huge leg up which is great but still swimming like running just because you can do it doesn't mean you're in shape for it yeah and so i structured the next few months as we did went into may july or may sorry may june july leading up to august basically the same way that i kind of structure a run prep building up mileage or yardage in the pool and in the ocean and then tapering into it but it was still a very i mean it's it's risky to say you know i knew that i was capable of it by yourself yes like all the training was by yourself training myself coaching myself the whole deal um with of course so much support and so much help in different ways and got technique work and stuff but usually unlike my actual structuring how i put together my training plan and stuff like that it's it's pretty much just me and i'm experimenting this is the first not you know you don't have a a rule book or a map for how to run 13 marathons and then go and do this there's no blueprint there's no blueprint has anyone ever done that before i don't think i don't know how many people have done 13 marathons in 13 days such such a niche like unique thing to do so there's probably people who have swam the channel that have done even crazier ultras there's a very select few though but it's it's it's dwindling you know what percentage are off the rockers yeah exactly it's it's not it's not a huge amount of people i mean even this this catalina there are the official number is around a thousand people wow that have swam it so it's like a sizable number but still compared to a lot of also not that much though i mean how many people normally run a marathon like a couple thousand yeah every time there's a marathon yeah yeah i mean you have hundreds and thousands on certain yeah so it's like it is a unique endeavor and there's less information about it a little bit more training and expectations and the whole deal yeah and a lot of people have paddled it yes there's like catalina classic that's here in hermosa yes and it's insane i always thought that was the most insane thing i've ever seen but then i met you so no it's still you're you're self-propelled across the channel is no small feat it's remarkable i'd pick a board though over just so our dog in the ocean after doing it so would i it was i mean it's yeah what was the worst part during the actual swim i guess there's two parts to it okay of the training and the whole thing the hardest part genuinely was getting over the fear and getting comfortable swimming in the ocean yeah that might not be the hardest part i mean depending on how you quantify it but at least for me at this point in my time i know that i can do long swims and hard physical things yeah so you feel confident in that mental state yes but then having something that's out of your control yeah the uncertainty yeah of swimming in the ocean and we all know we're just visitors there exactly now even though i'm people are like how you just you must not be afraid of the ocean how do you get over that fear and i've made a ton of progress but the reality is last the summer prior so a little over a year ago i was in the ocean and i was in the ocean and i was in the when I first got interested in this, I was pretty scared of getting in the, I mean, I swam, but like actually being out in the ocean, I'd never gone for an ocean swim. And I'd seen people in the morning when I was living in Ventura go out in the morning. I was like, man, one day, if I could just go out for a morning swim and not be scared to death, that would be a huge accomplishment. And then my crazy brain was like, what is the extreme of that? Let's face that fear head on. And even when I went out the first time for an ocean swim, put my wetsuit on, go out there, go out 50 meters, had a small like panic attack, came back in. And it was like, all right, well, that's not what I was expecting. That was progress. Now at least we got in the water. And then it was like, but then even more bound and determined to get back out there and figure out what got me so afraid and work on that. And then it was just a slow progression of going out there swimming for 500, 100 yards, swimming for 15 minutes, 20 minutes. And knowing that, okay, like I didn't, I didn't drown. I'm okay. There was no, nothing attacked me, but through the entire training, it's not like that disappeared. No, there are days of course, when I go out and it's sunny and there are people at the beach and the water's calm. And I kind of, I'm like, I'm kind of comfortable. This is nice. I'm, you know, nothing's happened. I've been training. I've been doing this for a while. We're feeling good. But then there was mornings, even a month out from the event, it's cold. There's a current. The shit sucks. There's nobody on the beach. Yeah. I have, it's me in a buoy. If something happened, even you know dolphins which i love dolphins the coolest thing i had dolphins multiple times swim up next to me or near me it's cool still very spooky i'm not even large animal not afraid to admit it anything that you see in the wild there was quite a few running into seaweed where i don't even want to know the the noises that came out of me as i you know you don't know what you're running into and you're kind of going blind and so again so curious how much your cortisol spiked in this challenge versus your past challenges oh it's gotta be so so the most insane consistent cortisol level like i already know how i am in the water and like i can't even imagine like because you're in the water for hours at a time yeah that's glad you mentioned that because i think that's it's hard to fully describe yeah why it was so difficult even though i've done swimming for 10 hours in a vacuum with nothing no other variable is not that bad that you know it's like it's hard it's really difficult hear me out hear me out it's it's possible right yeah it's the mental aspect that really is being in the ocean combating all that and then the temperature and this not might not be for everybody but so i don't like cold water the fear was the hardest thing i think in the whole training block and just the event yeah um along with it being physically taxing but during the actual event the hardest thing for me was the temperature really and that's saying a lot because it's really warm and it's really warm and the water right now i lucked out this year with everything going on it was great but i just personally do not do super well with the cold i don't like the transition from outside of the water even as a swimmer i still don't love it i don't acclimatize well don't want to be cold have no interest in being cold and having to move your body so frequently and your body and your muscles are freezing up and you're like the last thing i want to do is move my body exactly you want to freeze up that's what makes you colder and so from the moment i got in i think it's mixed with the the nerves so you get in and it feels good like shaking though but it's like you're already a little bit shaking i know even you know an hour in it's like okay i have i thought i was expecting to do it in closer to 12 hours okay uh and i'll kind of explain why it went a little bit faster but just knowing that i still have all night to swim so when did you start swim 11 p.m at catalina island yeah no so you boat out there at 7 p.m why wouldn't you start in the morning the it's it's for the sake of the currents are better oh yeah because the waves i have heard that with the paddle as well like a lot of paddlers when they're training they do it like 9 p.m yes and they do all the way throughout the night i'm like it seems crazy catalina sharky af and nighttime is when they like to play yeah i can't see anything and going out there so that that's another just like psychological component that you have to contend with and of course so doing night swims leading up help but still nothing can compare you and going out it is the night that we went out it's like crazy choppy i'm kind of like all right just not gonna panic we're good everybody on my team my support team that was on the boat got seasick on the way out and i'm sitting there just like just hang in there just relax please don't vomit in the water you're fine like my mom is throwing up off the side of the boat my dad's comforting her then 15 minutes later he's throwing up it's like i'm like all right we got to get this done we're gonna be okay and and that didn't it was actually better in the a lot better in the water than on the boat yeah it that all throughout the night and in the morning until it wasn't until maybe 4 5 a.m it started to smooth out and the last few hours were relatively like smooth but jumping into the choppy water a bit nervous cold and then knowing psychologically that if i catch a chill it's one of those things where it's just like a non-starter when i i my my shoulders my muscles can give out i cannot be in the right cardio shape but if you start to shake and go and get cold your body temperature drops it's really dangerous it's really dangerous and it's hard to warm yourself up once you're back in that position yeah and then you start thinking about it and you start physically shaking you have to control your breathing and all that and so i'm just thinking this whole time i know i can keep swimming for this long i know i can manage that but can i manage the cold and expecting that it's actually warmer closer to the island when you get in it's 73 74 degrees okay as you get closer to the coast with the upwelling it actually drops like four to eight degrees and so you and you feel it and so the hardest part of your swim as you're finishing is like the end is the end and when you already feel like shit you feel like shit you're cold to begin with and then all of a sudden you get hit with a another dose of the water just got a lot colder and you still have could be four or five hours depending on you know how much you stop and rest they're gonna say four or five miles well i mean i mean it's 20 miles so at that point you're getting relatively close to the coast so that yeah there's there's the answer the cold combating that and not panicking yeah and knowing the i'm starting to cramp a little bit if i if i cramp and then start to shiver and if i shiver and cramp it's like the worst thing you could do is you start crumbling yeah and you're done and it's like yeah yeah how do i how do i not let that happen and hold on for long enough just like it was one stroke after the other it was breathing and to the point of i swam at nine hours and 50 minutes i was expecting closer to 12 and it wasn't just because i was feeling that much better on the day i had accounted for a lot more resting um every 40 minutes i had a planned feed to stop i get thrown my gels and take those so you didn't get on the boat can't touch the boat can't wear a wetsuit it's from the shore to the shore no no aid so they're very tactical you've got two observers from the yeah the channel island federation who's watching you at all times to make sure you stay in the water you don't do everything technically and right out of the gate for my first feed i feed we go and and not much is really said and we get going and they're kind of like are we need to make this snappy by the second feed as soon as i pop up they're they're yelling at me they're like we need to speed this process up every time you stop you're drifting another 500 to a thousand yards and that's added in the wrong direction that's just added to the other side of the adding to your swim and so i'm like i was going as fast as i could but let's see what we can do and so it it became normally the feeds are a nice relaxing okay yeah let's chat a little bit i can usually crack some jokes and stay light-hearted yeah from then on it was like too serious it was very serious it was throw the food as quickly as can as i can get started and you're like in panic mode you're in panic mode and the coldest i ever am is when i'm not swimming when i'm stagnant in the cold let's get the food down and let's keep moving because every second that i stay stagnant in the water drifting i'm heading the opposite direction and that's adding minutes to potentially hours to the swim and how long i'm going to be in the water so it just gets really intense right out of the gate and then it's like clockwork every 40 minutes from then on out we're feeding through the night the chop does not let let down until like i was saying four in the morning oh my god and by that time my stomach like you know if you're competing and that sort of thing to get your stomach to cooperate with fuel i could not eat the four meats it was horrible i would just like shove down the most bland food possible because i was like i can't do it i'm too nervous yeah it's i don't know how you did it nerves plus they say not to sweat like eat right before you go swimming yeah what about that rule this is i'm excuse me uh i learned growing up that you're not supposed to eat then you had to like give 30 minutes whatever i can't have anything right now yeah yeah so breaking all the rules um but to find out in the middle of that challenge that you have to essentially completely reboot yourself faster than you ever planned that's so fucked like i think i'd be like mentally panicking because now you're thinking about every single time that you thought was gonna be a break and now it's like probably the most stressful part of the entire race yeah exactly exactly like i would be exactly on well it threw a curveball early just i'm having ptsd i'm literally getting stressed for you it's no you really did it threw a bit of a curveball but yeah almost in the same sense i knew that we're out here as a team and the energy is somewhat stern and i mean transparently i i didn't i'm a more of a positive reinforcement type of person yeah the crew that was chartering the race was like i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know our boat with all due respect wasn't that was not really the approach and it was and i understand i understand safety in this sort of thing and so i would rather a much rougher more stern approach to all things around the swim to be safe yeah full respect to that but just not really my style and the way that i've operated yeah i like encouragement and just mom you know and it's like we're getting as a team we're getting yelled at from the boat captains about the way that the the time that we're taking to feed the way that we're feeding the way that my family is is operating in the boat it was like my sister and my girlfriend swapped for a kayaking next to me yeah and on the boat and the way that that they were being spoken to again i get safety but was just not not okay it was not okay i'm gonna say it yeah it's unnecessary yeah i understand the but it was unnecessary. so that going on didn't want to panic didn't want to make a scene about it yeah but it almost made me even more driven to be like we i want to i'm not we're gonna make sure that we get this done and show that we know what we're what we're doing yeah and operating and already to add to it hopefully this makes sense but open water swimming is maybe a more niche community than running right now 100 right and you don't have as many people making content documenting it we had uh a crew also making a mini doc on it so we had a bit of a production yeah and knowing going into it that people had been talking about the fact that i'm a content creator and i'm doing this i don't think you as seriously i don't think it was received the same way that it could have in other uh realms yeah they were again not trying to like talk negatively of of any of that stuff but it's just a little bit different it wasn't it's just it's different for them as well yes and they don't understand also like the aspects that make a really good piece of content and i think what they also don't realize is that you recording everything documenting everything like it's going to get more people to do it which i think is better for the community correct like that's what i believe more eyes you're gonna inspire so many people to do it and exactly that's what the whole point of it is like it's also like i don't know i hate to like maybe come off weird but it's just like it's not that deep it's not that serious like this is for fun like this is an opportunity to like do something really fucking cool and like we've lost the plot if you're taking it that seriously i'm sorry yeah no and you're not actually at a race like you're not racing anybody and it's not like this huge organization it's like you created this project that you want to do why are they telling you how to do it i feel like you should be able to have full autonomy on that yeah yeah and i interesting so i again i appreciate the level of seriousness and give them their flowers for making sure we got safely there yeah but that was also just a component even the guy at the end said you proved a lot of people wrong today and to say that you're like oh you were doubting me and so that's why i was like okay they were definitely and that's fine that's fair that's fair they were talking about content creator coming from running not a full-blown open water swimmer thinking he can come and do this and so that felt really great yeah finishing i love having the team being like we got it done and pretty impressed with my time pretty proud of my time and even that their crew was like that solid and but again to their credit they're probably the reason that i got it done so fast because oh yeah they're like no time to waste you gotta go give credit where credit's due they kept me moving we got it done we got it done safely but the approach to it rubbed me rubbed me the wrong way that's not how i would have preferred to do it and i don't think is is maybe the best way to go about it yeah i mean piggybacking off that i was wondering at least from my own experience i've noticed anytime i want to do something insane or against the grain or something that people may not expect me to do i get a lot of resistance and i get a lot of almost like shame or guilt like from people like they're like why would you do that that's insane like and uh a lot of scrutiny how has that been for you like do you experience that a decent amount with these types of challenges like do people doubt you a lot do people kind of shit on your ambitions you know quite honestly not not i've been fortunate enough maybe it's the size as a you know i'm not a huge creator that for the most part i see really of course there are people whether it's in the comments or if the video goes viral people are like no way he did that yeah yeah i think that's where you get all your haters it's like it goes viral exactly you get just people that have no no context yeah but for the most part you've brought your followers along for the journey though so they're invested in each they're invested and they seem super supportive and or they don't at least say that to me what's being said behind my back very well could be because i know how that can come across i don't want to be the person that comes in naively into a discipline and is just like i can do yeah accomplish anything you don't want to disrespect what people do and what they train for for their whole lives but also i think there's something really endearing about taking your audience along and showing them the ins and outs and the not so pretty parts of it because it's just like how could you judge someone when they're showing you i think all of the details and all the context yeah you know i couldn't agree more so it's a balance and i want to make sure i come across that way and i think maybe maybe as i grow i'll get more hate and who knows the endeavors i find myself in the future but for the most part i feel very fortunate that everybody that's followed along this journey gotten so much incredible support which is so special that's rad you know and that's made it of course that just helps and drives the fuel and hopefully inspires people but um even still like there's there's always going to be that but i think maybe you function the same way hearing that often just reminds me and or gives me more fuel to to continue to prove yeah to prove them wrong and show i love it being underestimated yeah it's the best it's the best that statement at the end of this please underestimate me because i will actually go off like exactly it's it's a really great feeling not that everything should be fueled by that but yeah it's powerful it is powerful and i think also knowing that you have an audience that's rooting for you too like you have that kind of double-sided um but yeah for me i feel like having an audience that because i've been vulnerable and i've shown so many things behind the scenes of like training and not being perfect and like people find it so much more endearing and they it's harder for them to judge because they're like wait okay i've i i can kind of now mentally think about how that would be and it kind of forces empathy on people yeah and i think too like if you're gonna judge me like bitch go out and swim in the ocean try it yeah let me know how you feel yeah exactly let me know how comfy you are out there because uh i know a lot of people that would uh not be i would probably have a panic attack or two that's for sure i'd had my my share like i said i'm right there with you but it's amazing what you can do when you face fear head on and keep showing up you know yeah what would you say is like your biggest lesson that you've taken away from all the challenges that you've done i think two things one as simple as it sounds i think it is the through line of just that you are capable of anything that you set your mind to yeah whether that's physically mentally psychologically we are incredibly capable beings and it's just continuing to prove even if it doesn't go to plan just to show up for things like this and to get through it and to fight and endure yeah people are capable and that is the most empowering thing and i want more people to realize that that if they have a goal or they have something they can do that it is possible if they put in the time and there's just that's really it and doing these has been just a way i i had that belief before i started and it just continues to solidify what they're doing and it's just it's just it's just it's just a way to what that means and what that looks like and there's so much nuance and things you learn within that but that's i think that's the big through line and then the second thing on a more i don't know sentimental personal level is just what's or i should say the importance of support and and people in your life and human connection yeah in making these things happen none of this would be possible if i didn't have my friends my family my loved ones and even you know strangers you know unconditionally showed up to support and and give that belief it's of course you can get you can grit through stuff solo sometimes sometimes you have to yeah but the importance of that is just it's a force multiplier for whatever you do in life is to strengthen those connections to receive support to give support to people in your life this has just been such a rich environment for seeing people show up for one another when they when people support me and then getting the opportunity to do the same for people in my life and recognizing the importance of when somebody's training for something or you know working towards a stride in their career or their personal life yeah to be able to show up for somebody and show support and show love for that that's just like what life is about yeah and that just always seems to come to the surface when i do these sorts of things i couldn't agree more i think having also those types of extreme situations like it weeds out a lot of people that wouldn't necessarily be in your corner or support you and i think you can see those colors very quickly and so it's nice when it kind of naturally occurs where all of a sudden you just start gravitating to these types of people and you're like suddenly i'm surrounded by incredible humans and i think there's something so sweet about being able to with people like that's so special and i think it just for people like you and maybe i think for me as well it's just like i don't really give myself a chance to celebrate a lot of my wins because the downside to being a growth mindset person is you're always thinking about what's next and how you how can you do better how can you make it you know take it one step further and when you have people around you that like force you to celebrate even the little wins it just makes life so much richer and more valuable and yeah i've i've noticed that has been such a massive shift in like maybe from 25 to now 28 like being surrounded by people who just fully undoubtedly love you me and support me and are rooting for me and me in reciprocation yeah but yeah it's so healthy to like celebrate the wins though it's yeah it sounds i feel you know it feels sometimes weird because these are things i'm doing but it's what you learn for example at the end of the swim i'm coming into the shore and after a very emotional swim i stop 100 meters out from the shore and a a bunch of my friends graciously got an additional boat and came out to watch met our boat at the end of the shore to watch and i stopped for a second i wasn't sure if they had made it or if they were behind me i hadn't seen the whole time right before the shore and as soon as i pop out to get my groundings and to look like i'm about to finish the swim yeah i hear my friends cheering behind me i look around they're all going crazy on the boat i'm sobbing i'm sobbing and then i get to the shore and my sister so it's my sister my girlfriend the whole time i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god i'm switching off kayaking sporting she swam in after me she was the first person i embraced and she has helped me through this whole process and and just like those moments and my girlfriend's same thing having thrown in her throat threw her in the ocean to kayak i mean that in itself is remarkable people that show up all that to say feeling that does not make me feel like i am this like i'm incredible all these things it just made me recognize how important that support is and just be so excited to show up for people because of how special that is to know i have people in my life that i get to celebrate and they're doing remarkable things yeah that are here for me today and i hope that i can continue to be there for them tomorrow and as the future goes on it's just those moments that yeah you curate it's it's really special i feel like if anything it's like humbling and in the best way where you're just like holy shit like i am so gracious to all these people it just puts you in like the most intense state of gratitude that even though you're in like the craziest state of suffering the fact that that's a core memory for you like sobbing because you saw your friends or like feeling supportive feeling that community like that erases all the suffering absolutely it's i made me think uh i ran them when i was running the la marathon two years ago i was injured at the time and so i was kind of taking it slow i was like walking and running um and i out of nowhere seeing that many people show up and and support i started crying it was the most one of the most emotional like one of the most emotional races i'd ever been a part of and i wasn't necessarily racing or going all in but to see the community go and just go nuts for people and every time i was walking even though it was intentional people were just like like you can you gotta keep running yeah i know you can keep running i'm like all right i'm gonna shuffle along because how can you not yeah you know so it's it's just i love talking about that sort of thing and why i remind myself too in this community of fitness in general but especially races and endurance stuff volunteering and going to crew and support people is so important because a lot of people have it and some people don't so when volunteers come out to races and events and things like that i didn't know that was a thing yeah you i mean being at aid stations some people have their team and their crew and it's fantastic sometimes it's not always a reality a lot of people are out there doing it alone and they're like oh my god i'm not doing it alone i'm not doing it alone which is i want to go give those people a hug inspirational and total badasses yeah so that's why it's important to show up even if you don't have somebody but to show up just opportunities for the community as a whole yeah it's really really cool i want to do more of that and like you know what it feels like you know what it feels like to be alone you know what it feels like to do things on your own and it's like i don't know you just don't wish that on anybody and like if i can control one thing i want to make sure that at least one person feels seen or supported and that's i hope so yeah that's rad all right before we get into our little segment i want to know what's next so can we talk about it we can okay you don't have to share too much um if you want to drop some what when do you think this will come out uh in like two weeks okay well i will say with the caveat being uh don't hold me to this because we're still working through some logistics but um the goal will be i guess the the main goal is to be able to do more of this and i'm going to be doing more of this is to learn to fly i'm going to do that through paragliding but sort of the adventure component the end of the year to cap the year i'd like to summit and paraglide off of the tallest volcano in north america shut the fuck up you stress me out so that's insane it is possible it has been done before okay but as a new paraglider who had their first lesson this week you did your first lesson this week we we've got a challenge ahead of us yes oh my god and it was amazing i had the time of my life of course scared shaking yeah until you start to get it wind up flying solo my first one off of the training hill and that's again talking about not being naive too yeah i'm not going to do this if it puts myself in danger people in danger i love to set lofty goals if i just come out of this learning how to paraglide that's still a great killer way and i couldn't be more excited to round the ear like that but knowing me i want to set a goal that is attainable but extreme so that's right now the benchmark it might potentially so again don't hold me to this might adjust um but it's going to be something cool there's from what i've learned about the world of paragliding there's just so many cool things and it's a good combination because you can pack light summit a mountain you still get the endurance component yeah hike and then still a solid challenge solid challenge and then you get to soar above you know as you as you go down so that's insane i can't wait to see this in flight school right now he's in flight school everyone that's insane i don't even are you an adrenaline junkie like do you like that type of stuff i do to a certain degree i mean with the like cliff jumping pole vaulting yeah doing flips and all the things you know i love action sports but also i would say i do have a somewhat of a calculated risk with the things i do and i don't love to just do dangerous things to do dangerous things yeah don't have the same way don't have an appeal for skydiving or base jumping or free soloing or things like that so much respect for it but this felt like this felt to be something that at least from what i'd gathered from people is a bit more in control a bit more in your parameters yeah you're learning to be a pilot and if you take it seriously and you go about the right way and you're smart about it yeah you can do it and it's not exceptionally dangerous so i like the aspect i'm a big control freak so it's like with things like yeah like skydiving base jumping i'm like no no no no that's i'm okay yeah but like i even just did that like that moab rope swing oh i've seen that one you have to do it it's insane my heart rate was at 170 for an hour straight and i was on a brand trip with jeep and they're like you good and i'm like yeah great i'm like i have to do it like i can't pussy out because this is like a brand trip like i want them to like me and yeah i'm just like not an extreme person people probably expect me to be but i'm like that i was shitting bricks for like a solid hour before i jumped yeah but it was a solid free fall like because you're it's like 500 feet and it's on a rope swing so you're not like people thought it was going to be kind of more like um you kind of just swing into it yeah like you're going to be like tugged for a lot like the whole time but you're like fully free falling for like a solid three seconds it's terrifying it's an aggressive fall i was like i kind of wish i flipped just to get rid of some of the free falling yeah yeah because my stomach just like fully fell out of my body it was yeah yeah it's real so things like that still scare me again i'm not fearless but i'm drawn to yeah the closest you can get that walk the line walk the line okay of things that i can control but also there's going to be predict unpredictability with anything so yeah well i think everyone's going to root for you regardless even if you're just really good at paragliding you just start vlogging from the sky like hey guys welcome to another day in the life let's do my makeup um okay i want to quickly get into a little segment called dear athlete it's just like advice that we give to our audience so first question is i'm going through a period where i don't have a big goal competition or milestone and i feel completely unmotivated how do i find purpose when there's nothing specific that i'm training for and i'm going to answer these two so if you need me to answer for a second um yeah i mean great question because i find myself in that position and i'm still actively working through but just remembering that in hindsight the moments that you have a breath of just because you don't have a certain goal or something that you're completely set on and you're training towards is not for not and being there's a lot of a lot to to reap from being comfortable in those positions i'm still learning about it myself but life isn't always going to provide that structure and so just to relax and know that those things will come you'll find and you don't need to force something if it's not there either just to do it yeah i find that i find i wind up finding the things that light me up and make me the most passionate not what i'm actively seeking like i need to do something i need to do something i need to do something i need to do something to do something. - If you're avoiding something. - Yes, right. you just need something where it's just take a step back be present be in the moment and that's when it hits you or you're drawn to something and you you feel a little bit more certain or at least i do yeah and so i don't know i would those are difficult moments but just know that there's a lot to gain from that yeah and try to become relaxed in that um but maybe i'm not the best person to ask because i'm still trying to figure that out you're a big goal setter i mean for me i this might be shocking some people but i'm not really a big goal setter i think when i was in college and competing setting goals was very easy obviously getting a perfect 10 winning a national championship like all those things were so concrete and you don't get medals for being an adult and doing your job right and so i think for me i kind of gravitate more towards passion and fulfillment and if it fills my cup and it makes me passionate it fires me up even if it's a challenge or it's hard like i think it's a step in the right direction but also i have a 97 year old grandma who still walks three miles every day she's so active like she just recently stopped skiing just because she was scared of other people hitting her but she was a phenomenal skier and i think that has always been top of mind when i work out when i move my body when i go outside and walk and whatever because i'm like the goal is longevity the goal is to be able to pick up my grandkids the goal is to be able to eat groceries till i'm 90 years old to be able to live independently to not have to go into a home there's so many times i think we forget as humans that like we have so much more control than we think and age is truly just a number and i don't think allowing your body to deteriorate is a vibe like i just i personally don't really subscribe to it i think i think also having parents who are extremely active like my dad's 65 and he just played in one of the hardest beach volleyball and got second like period yeah and it just it reminds me so much that like i'm in control of my future and i think training for those types of goals and that longevity and that health one you won't focus on your physique which i think can be toxic like i think focusing on just how you feel and how well you move is key and then you know too obviously just like being happy and like doing things that make you happy and for me it's like it may not be going to like a workout gym and lifting weights but it's like it's just like it's just like it's just like it's like going and playing beach volleyball with my friends or going for a run with a girlfriend or walking and finding a new hiking spot like those are things that i think are far more fun yeah and so kind of channeling and scheduling your stuff around those types of things is important definitely um that was a long tangent my bad no no um next one is i feel like i've been taught to push through pain and never quit but how do i know when i'm being mentally tough versus putting myself through pain and never quit that's a great question that's a really great question something that we both we both struggle with struggle with for sure um i would i would preface it by saying that it isn't something that is there's a concrete answer yeah it is something that you have to explore i think that's sometimes the benefit of getting into regular practice and showing up consistently and building you know evidence over time that you know how your body feels and things like that it's getting to know your body and it's getting to know your body and it's getting to know your body well um easing into things so that when you get to those levels and you get to a place where you're uncomfortable you've been there before yeah and you recognize that that is temporary and then it provides evidence for when the times when i know what it feels like when i'm running and i it i want nothing more in the world than to stop yeah i can't catch my breath it hurts lactic acid is building it's painful there's almost nothing worse but i know that feeling i know that that is typically a testament of yeah what i'm doing and it will come to an end and it will come to an end yeah but when i feel something that is a unique pain maybe it's not something serious but having been in those situations before i become familiar to be let's not take any chances yeah my knee hurts i'm gonna stop and figure it out and maybe it was just a small pain and that comes again knowing that okay this might not be something serious maybe i should check it out again and then it happens again you realize oh maybe it's just a small flare-up that happens occasionally it's not nothing to be worried about and then you're like oh my god i'm gonna stop and figure it out yeah those things i feel like come with time but the way to approach it is i don't think you can never be too safe with that you can get after it and you can grind and have some killer workouts killer endeavors without injuring yourself yeah and that's coming from somebody who sometimes can take it to the extreme you get really really close um but just always having an approach where there's no reason to take chances and then you get into a place where when you're in those pockets you're able to differentiate really really well and it's something you learn over time you just know your body so well that there's no like you said you know what pain from a hard run is versus pain from a joint or you know your knee or your shoulder or whatever and i i can agree like for me i think it's one letting body be your guide like just let your body be your guide my dad always told me that because he's a doctor and he's just like let pain be your guide because there's even in gymnastics like you have injuries and you have to push through them and there's things where it's like yeah you can still train with that it's gonna suck but it's not gonna like injure it more or anything like that but i also think just like being curious like we've talked about it's just like okay how can i eliminate inflammation is inflammation causing this pain okay what kind of foods can i eat what kind of what how am i fueling what kind of water am i drinking am i having electrolytes do any electrolytes and i remember there was even like a good example of this is just like i went for a run i'm not a big runner i i think i ran three miles and i remember i hadn't run for a long time but my audience knows i run when i'm stressed it's like my favorite way of coping and so i was running for my problems and i was on like mile two and a half three and i started feeling like almost like a weird like like menstrual cramp and i was like what the fuck like it's not my cycle this is weird why do i feel like this weird pain and i was like nervous about like a hernia or like i don't know like when you have a strange obscure pain that you've never had before i was panicking and i remember i looked up on my phone i just asked chad i was like if i'm on a run right now what would cause this random pain in like my side or like my like uterus and it was like sometimes when you haven't run for a while your abs are contracting in a different way and like it's basically like a micro cramp and i was like oh sick okay and obviously if it's like if it persists like maybe seek medical attention but i think that's kind of like a good example of just be curious like try to understand your body more and then it's like the more knowledge you have the more power you have and the more powerful you'll be i think that's okay i think you don't approach it i mean i think a good way to look at it because you're so right is when you look at for example endurance athletes at the top of what they're doing it's not as though they are feeling these pains and they don't run into things that might be injuring them yeah they they have the knowledge to know how to handle those situations because often it is something that you can a fix or avoid or contend with in some form if you ignore it and just try to grind through it that's when you get injured but when if you do your research stay curious on why these things are happen then it might be an electrolyte issue it might be a stretching issue it might be you know way that you're training muscular and if you dive deep into that then you have a tool set to be able to to navigate that whenever those and prevent it and prevent it i love going for it i've been doing that for a long time i've been doing preventative preventative physical therapy since i was like eight years old and it's like learning okay how can i prevent an injury from happening based on my anatomy because everything's so unique to yourself like everyone's a snowflake right everyone has different anatomical builds and muscle groups and ways of handling stress on their body and so i think yeah just being very very aware and in tune with yourself is like so important yeah especially when you're pushing it to an extreme yay well i'm so excited we got to chat today you're amazing i'm so stoked to see what you do you're gonna do some really cool shit and i hope everyone is inspired and maybe wants to run a marathon with me at some point because that would be sick uh well thanks likewise this has been super fun it's always great to unpack you wind up learning a lot again i'm figure you're always still figuring stuff out yeah it's great to just chat with somebody who's been through similar things and can relate as you process that and um yeah to anybody out there keep doing things you're capable you're capable you can do hard things do it scared do it scared i'm scared so often you know and there's nothing better than overcoming that or at least just showing up to face it yeah i know you did that also comment if you want to see me try a triathlon and he does flips we can do a sports spot yes let's do that i love it awesome thank you so much for listening and i'll see you next wednesday you