Gracie & Savi Simo on Pro Beach Volleyball, Battling Anxiety, & Paying to Play

I was exhausted and I didn't know at the time what it was but like my body's in fight or flight like 24/7 because like there's just there was no stopping so it was like wake up, go to the gym, go to practice, barely make it through, come home and just like take enough. Today's guest is one of the most accomplished volleyball players to come through UCLA in recent years. She's a two-time NCAA national champion, an AVCA first team all-American and competed at the highest level of both indoor and beach volleyball before taking her talents to the professional game. While she's chasing her biggest goal yet representing Team USA at the 28 Olympic Games alongside her new partner, Devon. But behind the highlight rails are conversations we don't hear nearly enough, the financial realities of many female professional athletes, the mental battles that come with constantly having to perform and what it really takes to keep believing in a dream that isn't always supported. Savvy Seymour, welcome to Athletes After Hour. I was like give me the chills, I'm like you're hyping me up girl, I love it, thank you for having me. This is so fun. Oh my gosh, always such a pleasure having a fellow Bruin. That's sick to you. I love it, I love it. The community is so strong too, it's like we all went through similar stuff so I feel like we all have this kind of unspoken bond. Dude, the memory is at a costa. Oh my god, a costa. Going strong. Morgan Center. I love it. She didn't off each other and home more. I miss it. Don't get me started, but I miss it so much. We started, I mean, our high school tenure reunions this year. I know. Scary. Don't even. Let's not talk about it actually. I'm terrified of that. Like that's crazy. Are you going to go? Yeah, yeah. We haven't gotten our schedule released for the end of the season. R's is right after Thanksgiving. Okay. I'm hoping I can go. I want to go and see what everyone's up to. I know. Me too. I'm like, but I think it's easy when you're like, I'm really happy with your life. You know, like, I'm like, I definitely had a glow up since high school. I did not peak in high school. I was such a loser. I was such a loser. I was such a loser. I'm like, I want to go. I want to take my hubby. Yeah. I want to go and see what everyone's up to, but we'll see what the schedule is. Absolutely. Yeah. Speaking of a cost, speaking of UCLA, how was juggling two sports at once? How the hell did you do that? One sport was hard enough, man. I always admired you so much from afar. Like, we weren't super, super close in college. We're obviously way closer now because we live. We're basically neighbors. So it's so fun that we got to reunite. But like, I remember you basically always were going to go juggling two sports at once. And yeah, it's similar sports, but still it's completely different roster, completely different schedule. Back-to-back season. Like, how did you do it? To be honest, I don't know. Like, looking back, I'm like, how did I do that? But when I was in it, that's all I knew. Like, that was like, I mean, that was the plan going in. I couldn't decide before I went to UCLA, whether I liked beach or indoor more. But UCLA was one of the only schools that offered to let me play both, which was huge. And that was that, I mean, like, because like I said, I didn't know what I loved more. And so it was just like, it worked out perfectly, but yeah, you know, I came in early because we were fall sport for indoor. And right when we finish, you know, season for indoor in the fall, I go home for Christmas break. I have my two weeks and then I come back and it's like, right into beach season. And that's the hardest transition I think is going from indoor to beach because like, you're in shape for indoor, of course, but then when you have to go and play with just one other person and you're in the sand, oh my god, I'm like, I'm going to die. And all these other girls that play beach are like getting the sand conditioning all fall, whereas I haven't touched the sand since the summer. So I'm like, oh my god. I'm out of shape dying. There was a couple of us that did both. So at least it was like, you ran it together. We're together. Yeah. We're literally so trauma bonded, but it was the toughest transition was going from indoor to beach just because of the conditioning side of things. And then how it worked, at least when I was there, I don't know if it's the same rules with NIL and all the new stuff. I don't know how it works. But my scholarship was through indoor. So indoor kind of for lack of better word, I had control over the priorities. Yes. So when I was in beach season, I still had to go lift with the indoor team, which I didn't mind. I didn't mind that because like, I don't care who I have to lift with, but that what sucked was I was doing like indoor off season lifting when I mean in season for beach. That makes no sense. And I think it was just like, I don't like, I think it got better as the years progressed. But early on, I was like, I'm dying, like I'm doing out of season lifting and then have to go play on this in the sand and then I also had to do like some, I'm sure I went over my hours. Let's just put it that way. One higher time. One higher time. One higher time. One higher time. But then when we get closer to pack 12, it's not pack 12 anymore, but conference championships and NCAA's, I'd go full beach for just those couple weeks. But yeah, that was the tough part, was the transition to beach and then also the balance between like, kind of still doing a little bit of indoor. It just never, when I was in indoor, I was full indoor, but when I was beach, I wasn't ever like 100% beach unless there was those couples a week, couple weeks. So it was hard. But again, that's all I knew, yeah, literally all I knew. And then I'd stay and do summer school and all that stuff. And then when I did a fifth year, after COVID happened, only because of COVID, wait, I didn't even know that only because of COVID. So you guys got a fifth year. Yes. Beach though, right? Yes. Yes. Because you already completed your, yes, 2019 fall was when I finished indoor. And then 2020 spring was beach. And so like half, oh my god, canceled. Not even halfway beginning of season. Yeah. So they gave us eligibility. You didn't compete more than 10% so you were still intact for that extra year. Yeah. See, that's why we got screwed over because we had, we had already gone through the Georgia regular. Yeah. Like winter spring. So then when we got cut off and COVID hit was the week of my senior night. So we had already done all of regular season. We were going into post season. That's insane. And they were like, well, you already did more than 10%. So you're done. That's awful. I know. Yeah. One extra little sport on this little blip. Yeah. And you have to give it a 100% and not 100% be half assing with indoor and exactly. And that's kind of like, because after I finished my indoor season in 2019, I was playing the whole time and it was one of my best seasons. And so I was like, do I want to go play overseas indoor, which I never wanted to do. Because I wasn't loving indoor that much. My experience just like wasn't as like, I just loved the beach so much. Yeah. But I had to get indoor season. I was like, should I go play overseas or something? But then COVID happened. And I got to just play beach. And I was like, no, why would I want to do that? When I can go, obviously, the money's a little better in indoor, but so yeah, I went home. We trained in the fall up at UCLA outside in masks because LA was so restricted. We got in so much trouble like, as a senior, I was trying to put together like team bonding, which you couldn't do because of all the stuff. And then I got to play in the spring, which I was so stoked about to have, like you said, the full time beach stuff, which was kind of the perfect segue into the professional circuit. Yeah. So I was supposed to, but yeah, it's crazy. Crazy looking back. Oh my gosh. How was the culture for you when it came to adjusting to two different teams? Like I feel like girls are tough, especially when you're in a competitive space, right? Like we were all competing for the same spot. You guys are all competing. I mean, when there's only two girls playing, like how does that even work? Like you guys are all competing for one spot on the beach. Which is, beach is funky in college because do you rotate through people? It's like, no, so you kind of spend a little bit, you know, January, February, you spend trying to figure out what part you're going to play with. But then it's, at least at UCLA, it was ingrained into our brain that it doesn't matter whether you're, because it's one through five. So you have five pairs of two. So 10 girls play. Okay. Plus a sixth pair, they're like an exhibition, exhibition, whatever. Yeah. And so of course you want to be in the ones. That's like you're, you're striving for that. But if you're in the lineup, you're happy because everyone's so good. And UCLA, we were such a good team that you're just happy to be in the lineup. But you know, then there's blockers and defenders. So you're trying to figure out like, find a group. Yeah. Cause it's like, who is my best partner? Like who do I play best with? But also like that person might also play well with someone else and there's a ton of different personalities. Yeah. A lot of politics involved. Yes. And I feel like I'm a very flexible partner in terms of like, I, in college, I did a little bit of blocking, a little bit of defending, like I kind of did all of it. And I tend to get along with most of my partners. I just, usually I'm like, whatever you need, you want to play the right side? You want to play the left side, whatever you need. Yeah. You're like a down to blow. So I played with a lot of different partners in college, like just kind of whoever, like wherever I was needed. I played literally the ones through the five. So like in my five years, like I was, I think almost in every position at some point of, in my career. Wow. Literally every single, at some point, I played every position. So, um, but that's, it's a balance and it was so different in indoor than it was in beach. Just like different coach, totally different coaching staff, totally different roster. Um, me and Zana Muno and a couple of our girls did both. Um, and it's funny because me and Zana were total competitors in indoor, like going for the same position. They couldn't stand each other because we were just, we just like both wanted to meet. And then we went to the beach and we were the same position and funny enough, one season we played together, um, which is funny because we're both kind of like undersized players. Yeah. And we were just super gritty and scrappy and it just kind of works. Yeah. We played together for my whole sophomore season, her junior season, when we won our first national championship, which is so funny, like we were literally competitors. And then we were like best friends and then we went back to indoor season and we're competitors again. So that was like a super weird dynamic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did it ever take a toll? Absolutely. I mean, shit, dude. Absolutely. Yeah. Me, it just me and Zana's relationship, just like if I think of people that like I had to, you know, be around all the time, like we were literally like this and like now look, I love Zana. Yeah. I want nothing but the best for her. She's awesome. Just got married, like so stoked for her, but when we're in college, it's like so gnarly. Yeah. I'm like, I mean, that's just what happens. You start to dislike someone who's like not in your position and we were like this, but then we go to the beach and like, you guys are fine. Kind of get along. Yeah. It just was weird. Like I had some of my best memories with Zana, but also like some of my biggest conflicts with her too, just because of the nature of the sport really wasn't a about her, like this was like the situation, would have been anyone that was in the same position. - Yeah. - And then just like as the years progressed, different culture things, right? Like when I was a freshman, I like so looked up to the seniors and I just think the culture shifted in both sports, especially on the beach. I felt like in beach my senior year and then my fifth year, like I took on a, like of course, it was like senior leader, - Cowboy leader, yeah. - But the culture changed and a lot of the younger girls, which is funny, my senior year, Devon was a freshman, my current partner. And they can her and Lexi Denneberg, like these girls came in and they were like so good. And they came in and like it just was different because there wasn't the fear factor of like, when I was a freshman, I was so scared. The seniors wasn't there as much. - Like maybe they were, I'm sure they had respect, but like, I don't know, when I was a freshman, I was like scared of seniors. - The seniors, oh yeah. - And they came in and I don't think they were scared, but I'm like, why would they be scared of me? I'm not very scary, and I also was playing with Lexi. - Yeah. - So it was like just an interesting dynamic. I just think the culture was kind of ebbed and flowed like as my career went on. And being on Twitter, I played nine seasons of sports at UCLA. So there's a ton of different, like, - That's so insane. - A ton of different dynamics. - Dynamics. - Yeah, you have to do so adopters. - You know, teammates, coaching staff shifts, like different positions. I played different positions my whole career in both sports. So it just, - She's like so good at that. - She was so good at that. - I literally, I don't know how I did it. Like mentally. I don't know how I did it, but career. - Did you struggle like mentally, like, and emotionally through all that? Like I was overwhelmed. I don't know about you. I was so overwhelmed dealing with school and social life and gym and trying to like, also still maintain somewhat of my own identity, but then it all just got wrapped up in one and I struggled so much. Like, how was that for you in college? - Yeah, I mean, you bring up the mental health stuff. Like, I've struggled with mental health stuff for years, like even before college. And I'm sure a lot of it had to do with just like, being overworked and like finding who you are, like, come into your own and then like, dealing with girls, dealing with the growing up, dealing with trying to be the best of your positions. Like, I had panic attacks a lot in high school and stuff too. - Really? - And then when I went to UCLA, I got in early with Melinda Kirschner. She was our team. - Oh yes. - Sports psych. And I started seeing her individually, which was like, she's incredible. Like, I loved working with her and just was such a good sounding board for me because like, it just was hard. And I think what I've learned over the years with my anxiety and panic attacks and stuff is it's, I get flare-ups and it gets worse when I'm tired, when I'm stressed, when I'm traveling a ton, when I'm drinking a lot, which is pretty much all of college. You're like, trying to, you're like, not sleeping well, you're partying, but you're also trying to compete at this level, you're traveling all the time and then I'm in season full-time. So I'm like, of course, I'm feeling horrible mentally. But yeah, there was periods. I remember my junior year of, I think it was beach. I remember the specific apartment I was in. That was my junior year, where I was literally like, I just wake up and just go through the motions. Like, just basically do what I could do 'cause I was like a zombie. - You're just, I was exhausted. And I didn't know at the time what it was, but like my body's in fight or flight like 24/7 because like, there's just, there was no stopping. So it was like, wake up, go to the gym, go to practice, barely make it through, come home and just like, take a nap, like I wasn't going to classes. I wasn't going to all this stuff. And like, thank God I was able to manage. Like, I'm really good at writing essays and I was a sociology major. So like, a lot of my classes at that point of my, I wasn't doing any Gs anymore. It was just like, basically, you're in two. - Oh yeah, no, we were in classes together. - You were in your final. That's basically all it is. And they were essays. And they were like, I can write an essay. Like, I can write a, I can, that's, I'm really good at talking and really good, and so thankfully, I was able to like, manage and maintain good grades when I wasn't going to class because I couldn't go to class. So that's kind of where like the sacrifice was made and obviously the social stuff too. Like, 'cause I was putting my all into, 'cause we also won a national championship that year and I was putting my all into that. But somewhere it had to give and I couldn't go, like I couldn't do more than just practice in life. Like I couldn't be social, I couldn't do these things. - I remember too, like you would text each other and you'd be like, hey, do I need to be in class today? I'm like, they'll be good. - I couldn't go, I couldn't, like, I couldn't, like, or, 'cause be cut and like, how do I, how do you understand this stuff? - You don't even have to justify it, too, because look at you now, like, are you studying the social, like, you know what I mean? Like, are we actually using our degrees? - I know, and I'm like, I can bullshit my way through a lot of stuff. I think that, that shot out sociology. Like, I learned how to like write stuff, talk. But, yeah, yeah, it was, it was such a tough balance. I had a boyfriend at the time. Like, there were just so many factors that like, people don't realize that go into all of it and in college sports, there's, I mean, I feel like your team was the first team that was like, I'm taking a personal day. - Yeah. - I don't know if it was you, someone on your team started, like, we have personal days. - Yeah. - And that was like, so, like, I opening for me, I'm like, I'm never gonna hurt of that. I didn't know there was an option. And like, I had a great relationship with the coaches, too, and Jenny Johnson and Jordan, she was the assistant at the time. She's now the head coach of the beach team. She's like, she was amazing helping me with through the mental health stuff, 'cause she had her own journey with it. And so she was super understanding. Like, I had all the support I could get. - That's great. - It wasn't ever like, oh, I'm gonna take this day off of volleyball, like, that just wasn't. - Yeah. - It wasn't even a fault. - Well, you probably didn't even see your teammates struggling either. So then you thought you're the only one. - You always feel like you're the only one. You're struggling. - Always feel like you're the only one. And that's been the hardest piece just in my life is just feeling, like, so scared, 'cause you feel so alone. Like, when you're having panic attacks, you feel like you're dying. - No, literally. - And then everyone around you, I'm looking around, like, when I'm on an airplane, I've gotten them in a while because I'm on medication now, which we can talk about. But, like, a couple of years ago, I was in a really bad space as well because I was traveling, like, non-stop. - Yeah. - And it just catches up with you. But I'd be on an airplane to have, like, sweating, having a panic attack. - Oh, my God, I can't even imagine a worse place. - Everyone else is just fucking having a panic attack. - No. - Taking a nap. - No. - I'm like, I'm going insane. How am I the only person on this plane that's, like, lose, and maybe I'm not, maybe I'm not. But, it's like, weird how a lot of the people that I've noticed, like, myself included that go through the mental side of things are really good at hiding their shit. - Yeah. - You don't know, typically, when someone's going through it, like, a lot, you become really good at, like, internalizing and just, kind of, dealing with it on your own, which is probably the worst thing to do. - Yeah. - And then the second you open your mouth, it's, like, nine people come forward, and they're like, wait me, too. And you're like, oh, my God. - Every time I post anything on Instagram about mental health, - It's so powerful. - The amount of people that either comment on the post or DM me specifically, like, this helped me so much. And I'm going to be alone, and so that's kind of, like, I've never known the direction I want to go, but I know I'm passionate about helping people with mental health, but there's a fine line. I'm not a therapist. - Yeah, you're not a professional. - So I can't, like, be like, come, pay me to give you a therapy so that's not the thing. But, like, I do just want people to know that, like, whether they're an athlete or not, like, especially in the women's side going through hormones. I mean, I tried so many different birth controls when I was in college because I was like, maybe that's what's messing me up. I got off birth control. I got like, that's a whole nother level in it is. - Oh my God. - So, that's a whole nother podcast. - Absolutely, literally. - So I just always want to be a resource for people, and, like, just so people know they're not alone, because, like, we've all, I mean, we've all been through it to a certain extent. - Yeah. - But in college was hardly. - I know. And it's like, I think even just realizing and giving yourself grace, and, like, you're not crazy for feeling that way, for having the craziest cortisol levels. Like, I was in fight or flight the whole time. Like, I look back on photos. I'm like, my face was so puffy. - Yes! - Like, my periods were so odd. I don't think I was getting periods back then. - Yes. - Like, so not a whack. My ass me was flaring up, like, crazy. Like, as an athlete, you have to be so in tune with your body. But we were never taught as women to, like, be in tune with our hormones. - Never. - I'm still learning. - Yeah. - Literally, I still feel stupid when it comes to, like, even knowing what phase I'm in. - No. - My period. - I know nothing. - Or something. - I know exactly. - No, literally. - Because, I don't know anything. - I think that should have be a class in college, though. - Should be a class in a freaking high school. - Or before, I know. - But in fact, and maybe it's becoming more of a thing, I think, I know. Hopefully, more people are talking about it, more parents are teaching. - It's just, it's so important. - Yeah. - I, hopefully, that becomes more of a thing, though. - Yeah. - Maybe we have to start getting into it. That'll be our next thing, we should start. - Why not? - How do you post literally, no, I'm sure it would help. - I'm like, I have my silly little podcast that I hop on and do once a week, right? Just talk for a minute. - Yes, I'm so hyped for you, by the way. - But, like, I just think it's funny, like, I'm like, this helps one person, then that's what matters. - Then it's worth it. - It helps literally one of one someone listening and they feel like they're heard or seen. - Cool. - Yeah. - That's why I do it. - Oh, I love that. - So, how's the transition from college to pro? - I have to know. - Oh. - It is. - Because the transition from college to real life was fucked, so like, I can't even imagine going to a pro league that's like not really financially stable, not supported, not really big on the map, but it's still just as hard. - Yeah. - That's such a good way to put it. It's so gnarly. - It's so gnarly. - So, I graduated in 2021. - Okay. - So, 21, 21, 2, 3, 4, 5, this isn't my sixth season. - We're running out of hands, bro. Like, this is my sixth season, which is insane, which is insane, but when I came out on tour, you're kind of like, it's the same thing, kind of when you go high school to college, you're like, I just played in the ones at ESEALA, one, two, not shame, which is like, I got this. - Yeah. - No, like, these girls are fucking legit. - Really? - Like, reality hit you like a backdrop. - Yeah, and like, I think-- - And if they've been in it longer than you, as well, there's a learning curve with like, the training and the structure of everything. - I think the hardest part is, you look at a lot of the older players in their late 30s, and you're like, I'm 22 years old. - I'm fresh. - I'm fresh. [BLANK_AUDIO] When you get your ass kicked by these women who like, they're not hitting the ball super hard. They're just smarter because they have the experience. And I feel like in the 16s, I've played that's what I've learned the most. It's like, yes, I've improved so much in terms of volleyball, but this sport is in sports in general, but this sport in particular is so mental. And like most of the best players and a lot of the women who have meddled and like done so well are a little bit older and they peak later on physically, mentally, emotionally, everything. It's just a lot of study when they get in like, yes, a lot of the young girls have been in it. There's a study climb. It's not like the crazy spikes. Yes, okay. And like, I mean, it does. Just gymnastics is like crazy spikes, it's just like, gymnastics is insane. Yeah, you climb the mountain and you're at the peak and then you're only on there for like three seconds and then you drop it off. Yeah. No beach is interesting. Yeah. And some people like, we'll do well, but then they kind of plateau and then you just depends on like, and then there's also, you know, the international versus the domestic stuff. Yeah. The AVP tour versus the FIVB. And if you want to go to the Olympics, you have to do all the international stuff. That's like how you qualify. Really? Yep. So the AVP has nothing to do with Olympic stuff. I don't know. No idea. So the AVP, so when I first came on tour in 2021, there was only three events because it was still kind of COVID. Yeah. So I went and a three major events at Lanna Manhattan Open in Chicago. And I went and I qualify for my first event and me and I was playing with Megan Kraft, who's, you know, killing it right now as well. She was shoes even younger than me. And so I'm like, oh, qualify did well, beat some good teams. This is, this is great. This is chill. You go to Manhattan Open, you didn't qualify. So it's like reality hits then you're like, wow, I'm not that good. I'm not that good. There's been so many growing pains and I think the hardest part about this sport in particular is there's not like, you're not trying out for a team. Yeah. So it's not like you graduate college and you're like, I want to be like a free agent constantly. And you can play as much or as little as you want. You can train as much as little as you want. You can pay for a coach. You don't need a coach. Like, there's so many different ways to do it. It kind of reminds me like surfing. Yes. Yes. Like, the structure is all up to you. It's totally up to you. And it can train like five hours a day or one tennis. Yeah. It's kind of a blend of a couple different sports. But yes, like I didn't have a coach or anything and I was kind of bouncing around partners. You don't really, because you don't really know like you kind of whatever opportunity you get, you kind of go with and then you need someone who has points or else you're going to have to be in the qualifier and stuff. But there's not like a guide book of like, this is the right way. This is the best way to graduate college and become a pro. There's not that because everyone does it so differently. Like, some people went and played indoor and then came back and played beach years. Later. Yeah. Yeah. Some people came out of college and freaking crushed it and then kind of plateaued and some people kind of college and don't do well and then they kind of slowly worked their way up, which is kind of what I feel like I do. Yeah. I feel like you're doing right now. And but the hardest part is like, you come out and you think, you think you understand it or you think people are going to help you and they don't. A lot of girls I went to college with because you're all competing for the same thing. Yes. That's what I was going to say. That's it. So crazy to me. Like, you guys are all in one city. Like, let's just paint the picture here. You're all competing against each other. You're also all in the same freaking city training against each other. Not even 10 mile wide and you're training against each other, but then you're also training with each other. But then you're like, you're not supposed to train with each other because then you know each other's strategy. Yes. And then you're like, also, you see them, you'll be walking on the strand and you just see them training and you're like, when you bring it up, I literally like, what the fuck am I doing? No, literally, it's so weird. Like, it's so bizarre. And like, yeah. When we walked the strand too recently, we were like a little walk of clock and she was like trying to explain to me, like, even how the AVP works. And she's like, so it basically just like expect your mind to be cluster fucked for a sec. And then cluster fucked again. Mine's like cluster fucked all the time, but it's full time. I still don't know. We still don't know the Olympic qualification process and it starts in November. It's almost August. Oh my God. And we don't know. What's going on? Because people, they haven't decided like, we're just a tight B people. I swear. Everyone that's running the AVP is tight. Yes, yes. And then has no money. And then no funding. And it's like, what are we doing here? It's like, it's so crazy. There isn't even one facility that you has to train at. There's a USA facility in Torrance. Is that for indoor players? No, it's for VH. That's for VH. Okay. So there's a gym. Okay. They have strength coach. This is a whole nother layer that we can get into. They have strength coach, sports side nutritious. They have resources. Okay. So this is like a pretty, like the one thing that's actually like every other sport. Yes. Okay. But it's also like, so you go to the gym and all your competitors are in there. Where? Or you go to get treatment. And so everyone knows if my back's hurting or my this is hurting, if I'm in there doing rehab, it's like, people know, so, but like people know anyways because you can walk on the strand and see what's going on. So like, it's just so weird. It's so tiny, bro. If you hear stuff through the great vibe, everyone talks, no one can help it. It's like, it's like, I love this sport so much. I love living in her mosa. Yeah. I love riding my bike and seeing everyone. Yeah. But then on the other side of it, you're like, this is the most toxic culture. Everyone knows everything. Everyone talks shit. Everyone's cheering against each other. Everyone's super nice to your face. And then when you're playing, they're all like, I hope she loses. I hope she loses. I hope she loses. Because I do the same thing. Yeah. I love it. If you're sitting here telling, like if someone were to be like, I really was rooting for you. I'm like, where are you? Unless they're like one of my best friends and even then you're like rooting for me to live on my best friends that were in my wedding. If they're at a tournament, I'm like, love you. Hope you lose. Yeah. Because it's because it's all, you don't want them to get points because then they move up their ranks. And it's like, it's the weirdest sport ever. But I love it. I'm like addicted to it. I love it so much. And I feel like, you know, sometimes you just love toxicity. That's like kind of the sport. Yeah. You just kind of like-- Well, that's like why you have such a healthy relationship. You're like, I need toxicity somewhere in my life. My relationship is too high for me. My husband is born. I'm toxic at all. So I like-- Let's go get some rest. I like create the toxicness. I'm like, you want to-- did you hear about this today? This happened to-- And you're like, come on. They're nice. You're like, no. Oh, no. He eats it up, too, honestly. He'll be like, I did you hear this? No. Like, I-- It's like that TikTok genre. It's like, baby, I have tea. And the guy is just sitting there with his pretty hair. And that's Evan from the-- The face mask on. That's him. I'm like, we don't need to be in the drama. But when we hear it, we eat it up. Yeah. Because a lot of it's groundbreaking. It's like, this partnership broke up or like, this person texted. So like-- Yeah. Me and my partner, like, I mean, you know I've told you how it works. But we're pretty committed. Like, we're going to make this push for the Olympics. There's no contract. Yeah. So tomorrow, my partner should go play with someone else. Okay. And that's crazy. Yeah. Why is there no contract? It's just not paying in your sport. It's not a thing. I mean, I mean, I maybe some people have contracts. Maybe some people have contracts. But that's not really like-- Actually, I know some people have contracts. I have trust issues. I have a ban on the issues. I'd be like, can you please sign the contract? Please don't leave me. My partner. I trust her with everything. But I don't trust other people. She's already been texted. And because she's like playing-- People are trying to take her off. Yeah. Because you guys are playing texted together. And they're like trying to get her. And like, I trust it. We have-- it's literally the relationship. You're like, there's always going to be people they're like trying to get your man. But you have to just trust. They're not going to cheat on you, basically. Literally. Yeah. Yeah. And so I can't even imagine if you start feeling like they are having a wandering eye. Is it going to have to sit down and be like, so who are you practicing with yesterday? No, yeah. Because people are shady too. And Devon's not at all. And I don't want to be partnered up. I'm just so cute. If anyone-- if there's ever anything that comes up, all I want is transparency. Like 100%. Because I've had partners that were friends too. And that's hard. Because then they don't want to hurt your feelings. So they keep stuff from you. Yeah. And it's like, that's not how I ought to be. No. We got to be blunt. We got to just get it out. Get it out. And so she-- She's like this happened. This person texted me. And I'm like, so-- I'm going to go cry myself. That's the same thing. But like, she just-- I'm like, thank you for telling me. Because I look like an idiot. If I hear from someone else and it didn't come from her, even if she isn't going to play with them, I still want to be in the loop so that I don't look like a fool. Yes. And like, someone's keeping something from me. And so Dev's been so transparent, so honest, which I'm so grateful for. Because not a lot of people in the sport are. And you always have to be looking out for yourself. But I do think the best partnerships are the ones that-- We have the tough conversations. We have the tough conversations. Are super transparent and are like so committed. And I think that's what me and Dev are having a good season. Because we've really instilled all those things into our team. And wrapped our coach into that as well. So we're constantly-- every day of our practice, we're gaping. We're always overcommunicating. We feel this way physically. We feel this way mentally. This happened. Isn't it great? So we all are just in the loop of what's going on. But people have asked me, I think Dev and whatever, go play with someone else. And I'm like, I don't think so. What we have is great. But I'm also-- I can't lose sleep over the fact that someone texted her. And maybe she'll-- because then I'll go insane. I have to trust that what we have is awesome. I'm not going anywhere. I don't think she's going anywhere. And if she did, I'd be totally blindsided because she-- She's just not-- She's overcommunicated. You would know from a hundred feet away. Yes. But if she did, it's within her-- She's allowed to do that. Yeah. And what she's talking about for sure. But she's totally entitled to do that. And you just have to come to terms with it. Come to terms with it. But again, once November hits of this year. Unless there's injury. I don't think there's going to be any partner swapping because you have to play with the same partner for the Olympic qualification stuff So I think you're not trying to make some stuff. No, no once that starts. I think there's gonna be a lot of shuffling before that But once that starts I think everyone will be pretty steady Well, no wonder why everyone's trying to get their hands on her, dude. I'm like I get it. I get it She's a hot commodity. I mean what it's just tough cuz blockers. She's a blocker, and I'm a defender Okay, and there's way fewer blockers gone now defenders, and so as a defender defenders. You play more, right? Well, no, it's this seems like I just dig more balls and she's at the net more blocking But there's just less blockers got it everyone likes playing defense blocking super hot. I mean, they're both hard But blocking is really tough and like Everyone I'm biased and defense is so fun like I've heard like people favored playing defense And so like as a defender, it's harder to maintain partnerships because blocker like Devon's getting like show get texts from people I'm like I'm not getting any text. That's fine though because there's a bunch of defenders. There's a lot of bunch of really good fenders. Yeah, okay. It's like I don't think Devon would stress about me going anywhere. I mean I'm not going anywhere I'm so happy with her, but I also have way less opportunity. Yeah, she actually has people knocking on the door Like that's so crazy. What are your thoughts on this and she it's like proving her loyalty over and over and over again? Which is probably really nice for you because you're like oh, she's not going. I like adore her so much because she's been so loyal Transparent all the things and I just feel grateful that like it works. It yeah, and like Well that we've done well that we have that relationship like I yeah, I just feel lucky because it's just not always the case You did get so lucky. I have to talk about this. I adore her. I think she's so good of all like when you guys first partnered up You were on the brink of quitting. Oh, yeah, I was like so right. So we talk about this. This is crazy crazy So let's rewind a little bit. Yeah to like right before you partnered up with Dev So what happened? Where were you at mentally physically emotionally? Yeah, why were you so over it and then What happened after that? I think Yeah, last season was my fifth season. So I think it was kind of like Been doing this for a bit now and I'm just not getting like my second college is up, you know Yeah, it's been five years. That's like it's a long time to be pursuing something and feel Super unfulfilled and like kind of just so and the money's not even there It's not amazing. The love has to be there. It's a passion project. It is unless you're like at the top and you have all the sponsors It's it's like a lot a lot of people have some good job to pay for all your travel Like that's another thing people don't know like yep be pay for everything a coach out of pocket And then you could get like refund it or reimbursed through sponsors or USA volleyball does some like reimbursement stuff But it just depends. There's so much criteria. Yeah, that you have to meet it's not guaranteed stock guarantee so towards the end of last year I Was playing with my best friend Abby. She was in my wedding like love her and She decided funny enough. We were talking about this. She decided she wanted to become a defender. She's six foot six one six foot Okay, and they're typically kind of typically like I mean I'm five 10 and I'm pretty average height I think so she'd be on the taller side for a defender, but she's also on the smaller side for a blocker Got it. She's kind of that tweener high and so she was like I want to be a Defender and I'm like, okay Love that journey for you, but now I'm getting fucked because yeah, you're going elsewhere and so I was stuck with that a partner and but it was towards the end of the season. I was getting married so I was like, okay, I'm just gonna like Not worry about this. So you couldn't finish out your season. I missed out on like the Last couple events. Yeah, so I miss out on the last couple of things. She couldn't just wait until after the season was over I mean great. I mean Lately and I and I like I she her whole her decision was like I want to see if this is something I even want to keep pursuing like it made sense She didn't want to commit to a whole season of doing it if she didn't like it. Correct. So this is kind of her Little test run. Yes, in my head. I'm like, why wouldn't you just finish the season with me? But in her head she's like I don't know if I want to do this on time. Yeah, so like I want to take these next few terms to see if it's something I want to do It's your sport had to be selfish and like I was so upset like Yes, it hurt, which is fast, but also at the situation and like we've totally moved on from it She's actually playing defense on playing really well. Like I'm actually really happy for her So it's a good decision on her. She's playing really good defense. Yeah, like so I'm really happy for I genuinely am like stoked for her but I got chaffed like I was like, okay So what do I do and then there was one event after my wedding and I picked up this young girl Sarah Wood she goes to SC now who's a beast. I mean, she was like 16 or 17 at the time She played with it and yeah, we played together But we just like didn't we didn't win. We were in the qualifier of this event didn't win So you play what you fly to Brazil play one match. You don't win. You're done You fly all over Brazil to play one match didn't qualify. Yes, we lost. We didn't qualify for the event What like three grand to go lose a game. Yeah, absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah, so that's when I was just like I don't know how I'm gonna keep doing this. Yeah, because that I've done that a lot No, if I've flown to Europe. I've flown to Asia. I've flown to South America. Every trip is a lottery ticket You're like well, hopefully this works out But it's another lottery ticket. I've been in the qualifier and so like for those listening that don't know There's like a main draw and then a qualifier. Yeah, it's all point system So I've been in the qualifier at these events for five years And then you just never had your breakthrough never never had a breakthrough But I'd have breakthrough matches like me and Abby We beat Kelly Chang and Sarah Hughes who had just gone to the Olympics and I we mean Abby also beat the Olympic Bronze medalist from Tokyo. I've beat the Olympic silver medalist from Tokyo So I have you it gives you those little glimmers of hope. Yes Because I like wait, but if we could beat these types of teams We could be that this level 100% but it's just not consistent It's not consistent and then you go and lose your next table Yeah, and so it's that's like I feel like the hardest part about this sport is You're constantly cleaning on to hope you're constantly cleaning on to like You want this one match that you do so our couple or one tournament And then you've a couple bad ones and then you kind of start to be like what am I doing? And then you Just in time you'll be finished and you're like okay, I'm gonna stick around. I literally think that's why people playing like a drug It's really yeah, it's it's a dicking or you go to them in hat and open you have so much fun Because it's local and you win a couple big games and you feel jazzed up And then you fly to Europe and lose in the qualifier and spend all this money and you're like what am I doing? Yeah And so yeah, that's such a good way to put it like I felt like I just never had my breakthrough and the hardest part for me wasn't like I don't believe in myself. I have no confidence. It was like I know I can do this. I was gonna say you're like the perfect level of confidence I like I'm not you're always very self-assured. I feel like delusional sometimes like maybe I'd go to Evan all the time I has been to be like My delusional delusional to my parents all the time. I'd be like am I delusional? Should I keep playing this and like of course my parents and my husband are like You're so good. Yeah, no babe. We're doing great and towards the end of last year I was like I just don't think I have it. Yeah, like cut the shit. I don't think I have what it takes like genuinely I was like I don't I don't have what it takes you just lost all your hope and I was just like Because it was just it was a combination of just five years of like Takes a toll and then I'm a defender So it's so hard to get partner. So when Abby decided to be a defender. I'm like, what am I gonna do? It was kind of like the final kick while you're already down. What am I gonna do? So I said I'm gonna go get married. I'm gonna enjoy and then I'm gonna decide. I'm gonna figure it out Yeah, but I wasn't gonna put any Pressure or stress into finding a partner because I was like is this what I want to do? And of course, it's what I want to do. Yeah, but at that time it just felt so heavy to even deal with While planning a fucking wedding that was that was so hard. Yeah, and I'm like this is not what I want to do at this level I do not want to be in these qualifiers forever and be constantly just like chasing something that's just like It's not I'm not like I'm so close. I'm just not getting there. So anyways, yeah fast word to about November Of last year I'm at one of those volleyball vacations that we go to when they pay us to go play with people Yeah, yeah, and I get a call from Devon and I would have never texted Devon because she at the time was playing with Jane Whitmarsh who was like a younger sister to me. I've known Jane forever. She was a You see like I'll do right? Yep, and so they played together You see like they were like this and it turns out they kind of were just going in different directions And Jane wanted to go more the coaching route and Devon wanted to keep pursuing the international stuff And so Devon reached out and I was like I literally feel like the luckiest real world like this is like I think this is my break like Yeah, I talk to a couple other people But it just like in my gut it felt right like she was super committed She has a side job so she has the money to invest like in a coach We want to be a financial strain on her. No, which it is for a lot of people. Yeah naturally You guys have played together in the past We were on the same team, but not partners. Okay, sorry, but I very familiar with I know what she's like and we were just like it just felt right like in my gut And I was like I'm so lucky, but I I never would have texted her because like There's certain people I just wouldn't want to like step on their toes and Jayden's one of them People they love her so much of no forever girl cut and I just literally and so I was like I never would have sent this message, but like Yes, the stars aligned truly. Yes, and then we just kind of like your little guardian angel that just picked you back up I like I could cry because I literally Didn't know if that's what I wanted to keep doing and like I left UCLA like I'm gonna be a pro B12 player I want to be an Olympian, but that's how many hundreds of girls have that same thought and that's just sports in general But yeah, that I had no backup plan a lot of people people have a side job this, I don't have one. - Yeah. - I'm all in, I'm doing it like, and again, so are so many other people. So it's not like I'm special. It's not like, you know, there's, but I just feel so grateful for her and like just the way it all worked out. And then, fast forward to, I think our first event was in March and we beat some really good teams. We beat the reigning world champions from the year before. - Crazy. - And then we took a fifth and so there's three tiers of events. There's the elite level and then there's the challenger level and then there's the future level. So futures like, I haven't done futures in a while. I'm like at the challenger level, but I'm in like those challenger qualifiers. - Okay. - We signed up for this elite and we sneak into the qualifier of the top event. - Yeah. - I've played in a couple elite qualifiers too. I've never qualified for one of those events. - So I've never gotten a chance to compete against- - At the elite level. - At that level. Never qualified. I've qualified for those challengers and sometimes the top teams will drop down into that level and play some. - Yeah. - But they're pretty similar tiers. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But she gave you that extra edge that I told her I was like, I've never, I've never qualified for this. And she was like, are you serious? Like she thought so highly of me. She's like, I thought you've been playing at this level the whole time because she saw like more in me than I did in myself. We qualified and I lit a collapse. I've never like, I've never been in that level tournament. - That's so cool. - And then we go in our first match. We beat the World Champions from the year prior and we're like, okay, maybe it's a fluke. - You're like, let us cook, actually. But I'm like, maybe it's a fluke. We go win the next couple matches. We actually go and win like four or five more matches. I'm like, we take a fifth, we're stoked. We go to Mexico the next weekend and we take a ninth in like the second tier. So we're like, obviously not stoked on it. Like it's okay. - Yeah, yeah. - But we're like, that was a bit of a dip. But that's okay. It's really good. But now it's, but now like getting ninth is a fluke. - I know. And then we went to, we had the AVP league qualifiers. Didn't qualify. So we're like, okay, we go to Brazil. Qualify for the top tier. - Yep. - Which again was like such a way to off the shoulders. We paid for our coach to come to. So we're like, if we don't qualify, that's just so many expenses that just like, 'cause if you don't qualify, you make no money. - Yeah. - So it's like how many hotel rooms, meals, flights, plus the coaches expenses? - Yeah. - Out of pocket. - And that's so much pressure on you guys to either perform too. Like you're already putting pressure on yourself as an athlete just to compete at the high level, right? Like we all do. But then on top of that, to have external pressure. - Yeah. Financial, this financial pressure is the worst. - Oh my God. - So we qualify. We lose our first two games in pool play. And I'm like, I have melt full meltdown. I'm like, I'm not good enough. I can't do it. 'Cause like, I had that little glimmer again. Like in the first event. And then we end up winning our next match in pools. We broke pool. We played another US team. We beat them, we broke pool. We're waiting for our draw to come out. And then it's the local Brazilian team that just won the gold medal in Paris. And we're like, we're fucked. Honestly, we were like, I mean, yeah. - Cut out. (laughing) - But we're like, let's go have fun. - Yeah, we're like, we're like, we have nothing to lose. - You know what, we're in Brazil. We get to play the Olympic gold medalist. Our coach is from Brazil. - You're like, we're just grateful to be here. - Yeah. We won. - Holy shit. - And we're like, okay. Fluk. The next match. So that would be, that was the round of 16. The next match, we play the quarter finals. We play the Dutch team that beat us in pool play. Who also went to the Olympics. We beat them. So we're like, oh wow, we're in the semi-finals of the top tier event. - Going against literal Olympic medalists. - Yes, and then we lose our, we lose the semi-finals to the top team, and it was another Brazilian team that ended up winning the tournament. We dropped down into the bronze medal match. We have to rematch the World Champions again. - Oh my gosh. - We beat them again and we took a bronze. - And we're just like, that feeling matches like a national championship. - 100%. - Because it was like, I belong. Like, to me, it didn't feel like a fluke. And I think a lot of other people maybe looked like a fluke, but to me, because of the work we were putting in, they knew all the stuff that was happening. - I knew, I just knew for all these years that this was possible. And so that, I think, was the hardest part for me just in the years past, was like, I knew I could do that, but I wasn't. And so then you start to like, you believe in yourself, but then you question yourself too, 'cause you're like, I know I can do it, but so anyways, that was so good. And then we had a couple, we, I think after Brazil, we went to the Huntington AVP and we took a second as well. We beat Taren and Kristen, who are our top US team. - Crazy. - So like we've had a lot of glimmers of hope. - Had a lot of glimmers of hope. - And then we took a second and another in the middle tier tournament. - Sav, it's starting to not feel like a fluke anymore. - And some people kind of just like, one of our, he's our great friends, but he has a podcast too and he's like, it's not fluke. - It's not fluke anymore. - They're backing up and they're backing it up. And so then, now it's not a fluke. So now you have the pressure. So now you're, instead of playing freely and fun, now there's expectations. Now there's expectations. So we just went to Switzerland. We took a ninth in the top tier event, which is still good, like in the top event, like a ninth is a solid finish. But we know we can do better. So now it's just balancing the like, let's go have fun, but like we also expect to do like a play a certain level. - You're holding yourself to a higher standard now. - And me and Devon both are, it's just new territory for us. So we always knew we could. Now that we're here, we're like, how do we maintain this? Like how do we keep doing it? So it's just been like literally a 180 from last season when I was like, I don't know if I want to do this anymore. But it just does feel like the stars aligned. I think she's amazing. Our coach is amazing. Like we're obviously putting in the work, but everyone's putting in the work. So it's like. - But also how great floor you to have that pressure. Like that's pressure that you prayed for over the last five years of your career. - Seriously. - Yep. - Like yeah, pressure sucks, but also it's like, but we prayed for that. Like we've literally been hoping for this pressure for so long and not you happen. - Yeah, you like go into certain games. I'm like, yeah. We, you're so nervous, but you're like, this is what we dream about. - Yeah. - Is to be like the fact that we're even here. Like obviously it's so nice. - The fact that we're even in contention. - Yes. - And it's like so nice. - For half of these opportunities. - It's so nice to go play freely, right? But what a privilege it is to have that pressure because then it's like, you know you belong at that point. - Yeah. - You've been moving yourself time and time again. - Yeah, now you're really part of the top tier. - So now it's like, that's so sick. - Okay. How do we continue to get better? How do we keep playing free? - Yeah. - But also having expectation for ourselves. Like remove all the external expectation. 'Cause that shit doesn't matter. - Yeah. - How do we manage having high expectations of ourselves, but also not putting extra stress on us. Like just so we wanna go play free, we play our best when we're laughing, having fun, playing free. - Yeah. - So yeah, we have a couple months until the Olympic qualification stuff starts, but it's crazy to be like, I'm genuinely making an Olympic push. - Like it feels actually feasible now. - Yeah. - Like it actually feels like it could be in our grasp, which is so insane. - We're still like all the high-dream. - Yeah. - But like every Olympian I've ever met and ever worked with is Dululu. - Dululu, yeah. - That's actually the key. Like that's why they're good whenever I teach them gymnastics because they're delusually confident, they just send it. And I'm like, it's the Olympian's only though. It's only the Olympians. 'Cause like you just have to have like an extra level of delusional confidence where you almost feel like a superhero and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna do it. - And it's such a level. - I don't know how. - It's tough 'cause there's different, it's like when I sit here and I'm like, I know me and Devin can do this. - Yeah. - But then when you're on the court, you're like, sometimes there's certain games, certain matches. - There's a lot of white noise. I'm sure. - I can't do it. I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. - But when you had like your breakdown after one of the games in Brazil, like what did Devin do for you as a partner to help build you back up? Because obviously that's what you guys have each other for as well as being together on the court. Like was she kind of like you're saving Marys. - She's amazing. - Yeah. - She's amazing. And like her and Dan are coach. We sat down and I cried. I felt like, I'm like, why am I crying? Like, but you get, like you just do. - You get emotional. - Yeah. - 'Cause you care and I was crying. I'm like, I can't do it. I'm not good enough. And it was a really, really good post game conversation because we just like, I let out. Basically everything I've said on here, I let it out. I'm like, I know I'm capable, but like I'm not competing at the level. I know I'm capable of competing at it. - Which is so funny. - My mind is not allowing me to get to where I know my body can take me. I know physically I can do it. It's all this. It's all up here. - Yeah. - And Devin, that's kind of when she was just like, she just instilled so much confidence in me. And just was like, as a partner, just took so much pressure off. And we also, she also, she didn't come at me, but she also was like, during that, she actually started the conversation, funny enough. She was like, you were really quiet that game. You went internal and I don't know what to do about that. Like she kind of hit it like right away. - Yeah. - She caught you, she called your bluff. - You can't do that because as a partner, I don't know what I'm supposed to do to help you. When you go internal and you go quiet. - You can't shut down. - Yeah. - So that's kind of what sparked it. And like I have not done that since that match. - Wow. - Like, because I, now I'm being held to a standard by my partner, because we have that mutual respect for each other. - Yes. - That, I never took offense to it. I actually was like, thank you for saying that. Like I didn't even really know what was going on. So I was getting served every ball. And I'm like, so in my head. - I hate when that happens actually. - Yeah, I'm like so stressful. - So I like, like, block out. - Yeah. - Just gotta remember what happened in the game. - You're just panicking. - And so like, she called it out. I talked about my feelings. What do we need to do moving forward? And then we took a third. So it was just like a crazy breakthrough. - Good for her to be a grown up and call you on your shit immediately. And not be like, oh, like should I? It's like no, like actually to me calling someone out in order to make them better and hold them to a higher standard is the biggest form of respect. - Thousands percent. - A thousand percent. - If I didn't respect you, I wouldn't care. - Exactly. And I think that's, it just showed how much she cared about you and about the team. - Yeah. - Yes, exactly. And I think that's part of the downside of the sport. Sometimes is a lot of people don't, they either come at it's way too aggressive and they come at it as like I'm bad at that. - Mountain U and like more of a power dynamic. - Yes, or they don't say anything because they don't want to step on toes or they don't know how to, they just want to keep the peace. - Yes, I just think the reason why I think things are going well with us because we had a conversation day one. If something comes up and needs to be addressed and so like for example, she's like my back's kind of injured. She's like, if you go play six man, I'm gonna be really mad at you. I said, so fair. - Yeah, fair enough. - So fair. - Yeah. - And I have enough respect for you. Obviously I'm injured, I'm not gonna play, but like because I know how you would feel about it and I have enough respect for you, I'm not gonna do that. Like that's an easy done. - You're just a straight up in a relationship. It's crazy. - No, it's literally crazy. - Yeah. - And I certain times when I'm like, I'm always the over communicator. - Yeah. - Like texting, hey, just let me know. Like I'm gonna do this and that and that and that. And she's like, great. And vice versa. And I'm like, oh, I don't care. Do what you do your thing. - Yeah. - But like I'd rather the over communication than not because. - Or even silly things like, oh, she's not getting fucked up tonight. Like what is she doing? We have practice early in the morning. - Exactly. - It's like, hey, I'm gonna go go out with friends for a glass of one. And then there's no like, almost like miscommunication or just assumptions about things. 'Cause you can see something and read it differently than what it actually is. - Exactly. - Be like, I was drinking a mocktail or like, I'm not actually staying out. I'm going home right now or something. - Yeah, to have that establish that trust of like, so Abby's not gonna do anything to negatively affect the relationship. - Yeah, literally. - And Devon's not gonna do that either. And I, - 'Cause you guys have a mutual respect but also a mutual dream. And in order to achieve that, you have to be bought in. - So bought in. - I mean, and you also won a national championship. You get it. Like when we won, it was like, we were the most delusional team. - Yes. - That I literally to this day was like, if we didn't even win the national championship, we still would think that we were national champions. - Yeah. - That ass. - Yeah. - Like we were so bought in. - Yeah, so bought in. - And in like, you probably, if you look back at that season as, I mean, probably your hardest working season. Like, you also look for every reason to believe that you're already a national champion. Like, everything, every little thing that happened, we were like, oh my God, that's another, you know, like another coin in the piggy bank that's confirming that we're gonna be national champion. - Yes. - So then you start looking for the good. And all of a sudden, your whole world shifts. And you're like, why is it rainbows and butterflies now? Why are there unicorns flying out? - I mean, we're like, what is going on? - This is crazy. Now I'm so delusional in the best way, where it's like, this is just fun. And I feel like I noticed such a big shift. Like, obviously we've been falling into their forever. And I always get to see all your fun stuff now with Beach volleyball and all your content. And it's like, now getting into Beach volleyball, I'm so much more like logged in. - I love it by the way. - I love it. - When I see your stuff. But I'm like, every time I see you now, I'm not even looking at the playing. I'm looking at the literal massive smile on your face. It's actually crazy. - You're so sweet. - And it's so cool that you have this completely new perspective on your sport. Like how has it been now since you've found this new love for it? Like, what's your approach to day to day? How are you feeling about it overall? I mean, like kind of like you said, I'm like, life's so good. - Yes. - Life's so great everyday. - No, but you, that doesn't just come because you have a couple good finishes. It comes because you and your team and your coach and your partner, like you've created that space to where everything's a positive. So even like, so when we had to play that top Brazilian team right out of pool, we're like, yeah, great. - Yeah. - We were like, we literally, because we joke about it. Like whenever, like we, when we were in our first event of the year, it was also in Brazil. We won our pool. And typically if you win your pool, I mean, you get a better seed going. We had to play the top German team. And we're like, of course. Of course, we don't have an easy draw. Of course, we have to play this certain team. And, but like, that's kind of just been our MO. Like, give them to us. - Yeah. - Give us the first team. 'Cause it's gonna prepare you for the long run. Like, you're gonna be so much better prepared for when life is way harder. When you are trying to go for the Olympics. And like, I'm always like, yeah, give it to me hard now before I, you know, then at least I'm prepared. - Prepared. - And I'm not blindsided. And I don't get defeated. And I don't feel like all of that delusional confidence was for nothing. - Yeah. And if you get your ass kicked then so be it. Then you learn the things that you need to go and prove on. And so like, we make a list before every tournament of the teams be like, really wanna play. - Yeah. - And I always try to pick the teams that in the past I haven't beaten or like. - Or you dread like going against. - Yeah. - And so I'm always excited about it. - I wanna play them. And like, when we go to practice every day, we play music, we laugh, we smile, and we get our ass kicked by our coach. And we're on the floor, can't breathe, but we do it with a smile. And I think that's why it translates to the game. A huge part of it's Devon. And a huge part of it's our coach. Like, I don't want him to be overshadowed. Like, he is crazy. - No, he's crazy. - He's awesome. - So, yeah. - Amazing. And I just think the three of us all bring out the best in each other. - Yeah. - And we've created so much mutual respect and trust. And like genuinely love each other so much. Like, he loves us so much. - Yeah. - We love him. - You can tell. - He's so invested. I think it's nice to like have that additional purpose outside of the money, the, you know, status or whatever, the ranking. To be like, I'm doing this for him. He's put in so much into me. I want to give it right back to him. He's giving me a hundred and 10%. I'm gonna give him 120. - It's all three of us are just like. - Yeah. - And we've all kind of built this team. Like me and Devon, we have a different separate strength coach and PT all the stuff. But we each individually have like, really good strength coach, really good PT, really good sports bike, really good all. And we've built this kind of team around us. - You're just like in this like bubble. - Yeah. - That's pretending. - And we've also left everything USA volleyball. So, - Okay. - Because we're playing so well and we have a certain ranking, we could have access to all the stuff that USA volleyball provides, which is amazing. Both of us personally have a really hard time using those resources because every other team is using those resources. So we're like, let's use the resources, opening yourself up to be. - Yeah, but let's use the resources, of course. But what additional resources can we use to set us to give you an extra side? - Yeah, set us aside from all the other teams that are all doing the same stuff every day. So I just think, yeah, I mean, it's the fact that we've created this our own team and our own dynamic and we're doing something totally separate and just the fact that we've made our identity to be fun and positive. - I love that. - And so when things don't go our way, like for me, when my back's like bugging me right now, we're withdrawing from a tournament. It's like, it'll happen for a reason. This is going to open up another opportunity down the road. And we just, we just delusionaly trust that. And like, it's not always easy to do that, but like, - Yeah. - That's our whole thing. - It's more fun though. - Yeah, we're just like, happen for a reason, happen for a reason. And that's like, would that's like hammer, get hammered home? It's like, - Yeah. - It's all part of the plan. It's part of the plan. - But also like, I think there's such a huge testament to you guys putting in the work to be able to have fun and be able to trust that. Like, that's something that we always talked about too, is like, I wanna have no guilt going into season because I wanna be able to have fun. - Of course. - And it's kind of hard mentally to like, be like, whoa, whims are calling fun when you know you didn't put the work in. - Yes. - And so I think when you have that perfect balance of like, no, we work our asses off. So now when it comes to game day, this is just the victory lap. This is just a celebratory thing. We're just performing at this point. Like, we're just showing off all of our hard work. - That's such a good point because, when I'm working super hard in sacrificing and eating well, 'cause for me, a big change I made this year was like improving the diet and reducing alcohol. So because I'm always that person that's like, everything in moderation, but like, it's hard when you're like, you have to really cut back on a lot of stuff if you wanna make it. - Yeah, you're demanding yourself of a really high level of athletics and why would you make it harder on yourself by just drinking all that away? - And so, but like, the times I have during this year, it's be, I'm like, we just did well, or it's like. - You're wetting. - I'm actually, but I don't feel the guilt of like, I shouldn't be doing this because I've put in the work. I know what I, like, and I'm moderating. I deserve to like, cut loose tonight and like, have a good time. And so it's such a good point, you brought that up. Like, you don't, you feel, when you've put in the work, it's easy to just smile and have fun. It just comes naturally, 'cause you're like, you can be like, I've done everything I can. And now, whatever happens happens. - Now, it's kinda up to the universe. - Up to the stars aligning and then you can't control the finish, you can't control the result at all. You've no, you can control your effort and your attitude and all the work you've put in before, but you can't control how you play or how the other team plays. Like, that's just, but I don't think if you put in the work, and I mean, it goes, like, if you put in the work and you're a good person and you're, - But I mean, also like, it works out for you. - It's also just like, the fact that now you've guys have trained yourselves to default to joy. - Yeah. - Is key. Like, you literally default. to a flow state into pure joy. And that's, I think what athletics should be all about. And I think it's also what's really cool about your sport because you don't have the money. So now it's only about joy. And so the ones that play the best, I feel like are the most grateful to be there. Most joyful, most passionate, most bought in. And I miss that about a lot of other sports, especially in college with all the NIL stuff. I feel like it's no longer about the love for the game. It's about the paycheck. I, someone asked me a long time ago, like, what's your opinion on NIL stuff? And I was like, I hate it personally. Because I felt like when I was in, when we were in college, and there's no NIL stuff, you're competing for your school, competing for the donors. You're competing for something bigger than yourself. You're competing for something. It has nothing to do with yourself. But now it just, and that was my concern. I'm like, I feel like people are going to go back to selfish, to selfish ways. You know, tendencies, because, you know, and like, I think it is, people are transferring, right? I think it's great, whatever. But I do think it really takes away from, it was so ingrained at UCLA, like, you're competing for UCLA and like, all the alumni. For four years, too, that's the difference, too, is like, people constantly transferring in with the transfer portal being so easy now to do that. And then you're just chasing the check. So whatever school is going to offer you next, like, let's say you have a phenomenal season, you're like a person in the MLB, you're getting drafted every other year. There's no loyalty. There's no proper culture, which I don't like at all. It's like, there's all, we already went over how much RE changes when you're not getting paid. Yeah, yeah. Like, we have new freshmen coming in and seniors leaving every year. There's already enough culture change as is. So then when the stability in the core part of your career gets ripped away because everyone's switching teams, it's like, we've lost the plot. We've literally lost the plot. Defeats the whole purpose. Yeah. And like, okay, go get your bag. I get it in this economy. I would take it to, but also it would be really hard for me to leave UCLA gymnastics for a check. I don't think I ever left very loyal. I don't think I would have left because you, unless obviously if my experience wasn't pleasant, like, yeah, maybe maybe then you go, but like that, even though you build that loyalty to your fans, you build that loyalty to like the entire university, like your face is plastered on posters and on Bruinwalk in a flight. I can't imagine leaving. I'm so close with the, we had some amazing donors. I know. The athletic advisors, the trainers, everyone. Yeah. Like, all the other athletes on the teams that, yeah, I just, I don't know. It's, it's sad. So I'm in the same boat as you. I understand it. It's just not my favorite thing. Yeah. So, well, I'm so proud of you. This is so exciting. This is why I was so excited to come in and talk with you because I feel like one, your sport is just so unique. And like, we, we did talk to Camila Tan and her, her experience was also wild, but just to have like a completely different perspective on it. And obviously you being in such a high peak right now, I just was like, we have to get you in. I'm gonna talk about it. I appreciate that. And like, we could literally sit here and break down the ends and outs of the sports for hours. Oh, literally. Because it like doesn't make, like, not enough time. There's not enough time in the day to like make it make sense. Yeah. A lot of people, but I'm just so grateful you had me on. I'm so stoked with what you're doing. And like, I'm just happy to try to get people to understand what's going on. And I just hope more people continue to support and watch beach volleyball during the Olympics. It is the most watch sport. Is it really one of the most watched sports? I do love watching beach volleyball so like that. But like in between, yeah, it's not. It's hard. There's no coverage. And I just am like, I want to just continue growing the sport. It's, I mean, you know, you're playing. And you're loving, you're playing for fun and you're loving it so much. And I know so many people are like that. Like people love playing. But we just got to find a way to build the sport and like make it make sense for all of us to keep playing. Like, when I retire, I want to retire. Yeah. I'm a pro athlete, but like, no one's able to do that. I mean, what's the average annual income of that? That's like pro volleyball for a good question. Because it ranges so much drastically. Okay. I mean, let's say like, let's get rid of all sponsorships. Yeah. So sponsorships weren't a thing. Yeah. This is just from playing. It also depends too, because it depends on what you win. You can choose which terms, like not everyone goes to all the tournaments as well. I want to say, it's funny. I don't even have the numbers off the top of my head. But like, we just took a second in Huntington. Maybe, just let's just even look at just the domestic stuff. So you have, for the AVP, the domestic stuff, you have our three main events, which is Huntington and Laguna this year. Okay. For Huntington, we just took a second, again, this is our top event. And we split 10K. We got five K. Just take a second in our top event. And then, so they have those three tournaments and then they have the AVP league, which is a new thing, which me and Devon didn't qualify for. I heard that some of it was determined based on your following. Yeah. Well, but if it was, then Devon, me and Devon should have been in it. She has so many followers. That's true. She doesn't have a following. It's completely biased, but anyways, it's fine. The politics. So like, some people got auto bids, some people earned bids, and some people got wild cards, and wild didn't get any of it, but only eight teams are in that. Why? So if you're in the league, one of the eight teams, so total 16 people run the entire league. Huh? Men and women. So 32, I guess. What the hell? So you get 20K to be in that 20K for the whole year. And then if you win it, you get a bonus. If you win it, you get like a bonus of what, a dollar. I don't know. But yeah. So me and Devon, we just took a second. We got five K. Oh, my God, dude. So you probably then on average for a beach volleyball player that plays pro at the highest level, maybe we say like 30 grand a year, 40. If you're like, yeah, consistently, maybe that's like that's like you're in the tournaments and you're like getting decent finishes. And like, yeah, if you want to wrap in the international, I think the international pays a little bit more. And it's like, it's tough. And I'm like, I don't want to be the one to bash because people are trying. The people are trying to get more money in the sport. Yes. But I think the more we talk about it, the more people, one respect the hell out of you guys for doing it. Yeah. Like they realize that it's not, it's not luxurious. It's not glamorous. Like, there is a lot, I mean, even my friends who are in, you know, my friends and artistic swimming, my, my other friend who's an Olympic BMX writer, like the money's not there. It's just not. I mean, even my friends that are cliff divers, they're diving off of bad ass thing, literally the craziest forever. And they're like, literally risking their lives for like, I think yeah, like a 10 K finish if they get top three. Yeah. So it just depends like, if you're winning all the tournaments, you're bringing it, like if you go to all the international and all the AVPs, you could probably, I wish I knew the numbers. You could get above 50K in prize money. Yeah. But you're, that's like winning. But it's tells you its sponsorships too because you guys don't have a lot of television coverage. So then there's not all social media stuff. It's also social media. Yeah. And they go based on like following. So then do you guys all have to just like do content creation full time? As well as comes a big part of the job, which sucks because like a lot of us, which is a whole job in and of itself. Right. Like, you know, it's nice. I do it full time. Yeah. Like, I don't want it. And you don't have the money to hire someone to do it. Exactly. So you're just floundering in the middle. Like, do I spend this money to hire someone or do I, or do I try to do it part time? And then you start traveling so much, you don't like that's the zone I always get in and it's like, I'm going to do content. I'm going to do like, film more stuff and do all this stuff. And then I get into season. I'm like, I don't have time to be editing these videos on. I'm too tired of all this stuff, but sponsors are where you like actually have a sustainable life. Yeah. And sponsors, I mean, but you only get sponsors if you have connections or if you have good results. And if so, for me in the years past, like, I'm doing my taxes, I'm like, I'm getting money back. Oh, my taxes. You know what I mean? But in the last couple years, me and Evan have done well enough in terms of like finishes and also have enough sponsorship, and then we've pooled everything together. We lived together. Split expenses. So now we're like, okay, we're definitely positive. And we've taken every penny extra and put it in real estate and we've purchased properties. And so for you, when we retire, we actually can retire because we have the money coming back to you in real estate, but that's also the only reason we're able to do this because we like eat dinner at home every single night. Like we like, we don't go out and drink. Like we're like, we have to live like a shop and we like a shopping budget. Like we have to be smart. But that's why we now are making, I don't know how much we're going to make, but we have a sponsor right now that's so amazing that gives me incentives. So like if I take certain finishes or hire, they give me extra money. A little bonus. That's nice. That's nice. And because I've had a good season, I'm like, hell yeah, like that little extra check that comes through. God. Well, and then we also have to talk about the fact that you're literally married to another beach volleyball player whose pro who is in the same boat as you and he's around the same ranking as you, right? Like you guys are pretty similar, very similar. And I think like I adore being married to a volleyball player because he gets it. He gets it. Yeah, but it's also equally challenging because like, how do you guys, the schedule is aligned? I haven't seen them all summer. I literally haven't seen them all summer. [BLANK_AUDIO] - Some summers were together every day. - Yeah. - Some summers were not together at all. It just depends on those elite and challenger levels I was telling you about. We've decided to go to different, like we're all over the place. We've gone to different ones. So he gets it, but at the same time, when one of us is doing well, the other one's not, it's super hard. - Yeah. It rarely happens where we're both killing it. - Yeah. - We're both like, yeah. But right now, I do think like-- - He's having a tougher season. - He's having a tougher season in terms of, I guess, like, international finishes, but he's in that AVP league. - Okay. - So he has that guaranteed money, and he's like, he's coming up with great sponsorship. He's like, I think I just closed another deal with it. He's a great agent. I'm like, oh, thank God. - Thank God. - Yeah. - One of us has a good, yep. And then I'm getting really good finishes, so it kinda, like, we're bringing in good money this year. - So you guys both are winning. - We're winning. - Yeah. - And then it's all going into the same pot. - Yeah. - It's all going in the same place, but every year's different. - So I can get injured. - I can get injured and not be able to compete. That's a whole nother factor that, like, thankfully Ivan had to deal with so much. It's like the injury side of things that, like, 'cause if you're not competing, you're depressed. - You're not on a salary. - Yeah. - It's a tough drop off. - We could be here all night. - I know. - I know we gotta go, but there, I mean, there's so much, so many layers to talk about, so. - Okay, well, I have a fun little rapid fire for you. - Yeah. - Okay. I'm excited. (laughs) - Favorite UCLA memory? - Winning my first national championship in 2018? - That was when I won mine. I remember that, actually. - We had a whole party. - 2018. - Yep. - It's when we won our first one. Me and Zona were both, like, super injured, and we were one of the winning matches, and it was just like, oh my God. - So sick. - Good memory. - I love that. - Biggest pet peeve in Beach volleyball. - Oh my gosh. It's such a good question. I have so many. (laughs) No, it's probably, like I said, that lack of transparency and the kind of shadiness that goes around. Or, this is a super specific one. Me and Devin talk about it all the time. When the other team is hitting the ball over the block in the blocker turns around and is like, "Go, go, go, go, like you're trying to encourage your partner." - Yeah. - But you know your partner is not gonna get it. And they're still like, "Go, go, go, go, go, go!" - Yeah. - The ball hit the sand like 10 minutes ago, and they're like, "Go, go!" And you're just like, "Oh, that's so cringey." 'Cause they're doing it to like make their partner upset. Like they're doing it to like make it seem like they're partnered into their job or whatever. I'm like, "Oh, I can't stand that." - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, favorite country you've competed in. - Oh my gosh. I have to say Switzerland. - Oh, I wanna go so bad. - I have to say there's an event in Schod, Switzerland every year and it's just like stupid and sane. - Oh, I love that. - Or the Maldives, that was pretty cool too. - Oh, that was insane. - That was insane. - That was insane. That was that flight ticket. - Very expensive. - Very long, it's really on the other side of the world. Like exact opposite point of the world. - Yep, so narrowly. - Sounds about right. - So nuts. - Toughest opponent you've ever competed against. - It has to be the Brazil gold medalist. - Yeah, it has to be the Brazilian gold medalist, but honestly, this is like gonna sound silly, but honestly, I think the toughest opponent, it's just like so cliché. It's literally myself. - Yeah. - That's like so deep, but like it literally is like. - Yep, it's always like. - Your toughest critic. - Always, always always. - She's deep. - I can't help it, I can't help it. - What's one misconception people have about Pro Beach volleyball? - That it's glamorous. Like that, we get to travel the world for a living and it's so awesome, which it is. - And we get to play on the beach all day. - Which is amazing. - Yes. - However, we're flying in coach all the time. - You're paying for all your flying. - Paying for all of our stuff. You have to figure out the jet lag and you're competing right away and then you eat something wrong and you get sick and you have to do with like playing while you're vomiting and like it is so not glamorous. - It's so not glamorous. Like yes, we get to travel the world, which is insane, but it is not glamorous. - Yeah. - I think that's the, 'cause we're on the beach, people think it's like glamorous and it's just not. It's just not, it's just not. - Maybe that should be a series under your channels. There's just things that are not glamorous about Beach volleyball. - Yeah, honestly. - I would watch a great idea. It's just a video of you vomiting. - Super great. - That is such a thing. - And then playing all the flights there. - All the flight cancellations sitting in the middle seat. - Trying to stretch in the back with the flight attendants. - Oh yeah. - What's one thing you're terrible at outside of volleyball? - Yeah. I'm horrible at any sport that has to do with like a bat or a racket. - Like hand-eye coordination? - Yes. - Which is so funny, 'cause I play sport where I have to like, I'm really in hand-eye coordination. But if there's like an extension, like I can't swing a golf club to save my life. I can't swing a baseball bat to save my life. I'm like, I think I'm athletic and then I try to go play like baseball. And I'm like, this is so pathetic, horrible. - I love it. What's one thing that's always in your tournament bag besides volleyball gear? - My Oakley sunglasses. Gotta give a little shot. - Are you one of my Oakley? - Oh my gosh, my brother just started working with them. - It's amazing. - He works with Oakley golf. - He loves them. - Wait, we're gonna have to talk about this after 'cause I think the Oakley golf rep is my rep as well. So we'll talk about that after. - Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely. I always got my Oakley sunglasses. - Is this a new sponsorship? - No, actually, I've had them for a couple of years. I'm so lucky. I'm so lucky, so I am always. - They're a great sponsor, especially for your sport. - Yeah, I always have. I usually wear like this just black pair and then I always have an extra fun colored pair and then I also have nighttime pair. Like they're kind of like the clear lenses. So they're definitely in my bag, yep. - Love. - Who's more competitive? You are Devon. - Ooh, that is a good question. I honestly wanna say Devon, lately like the more I get to know her, she's like secretly complaining more. - Yes, the more you get to know her and we have losses sometimes and she's sick about it. And like I am too, but like, - Yeah. - You have some radical fantasy like when she takes losses and like I think just because I've been playing a little bit longer. - Every certain loss hurts more or less depending. - Yeah. - I feel like certain ones hurt me bad, but like I've lost so many times that it kind of rolls off the shoulder. - Yeah. - Sometimes lately if we lose is she's sick about it. I'm like this girl's just so competitive and I freaking love it. - I love it. - I might have to say Devon on this side. - Keep the fire. - Yeah. - Athlete, you'd love to play doubles with from any other sport. - Oh my gosh. I'd love to play with Savlanka. - Ooh. - I love her. She's just such a baddie. - I love that. - I just think she's so great. - I love that. - Yeah. - One word Devon would use to describe you. - Hmm. This is gonna sound so funny, but like OCD or clean, because Devon is like the opposite of that. - Oh, you guys are the type A and type B do all of this. - The hotel room situation. - Oh god. - We share a hotel room and everywhere we go. - You have to put that in the glamorous. - Oh. - Non-delarmless series. - She's a filthy mess. - You're adding the series growth. - She's gross. - And she owns the shit out of it though. She's like, I love that. I don't shower until like right before bed. And she like has a chair and every hotel room has a chair. - Yeah. - She'll sit in that chair for like six hours. Sandy, sweaty. And she's like, I'm just gonna do does her work. Like, she's filthy. - I love it. - But she, so I think she probably, there's probably a lot of work she'd use, but that's an easy one because like I. - Too quiet. - I pack my suitcase. - I take like eight showers a day. - Yeah. - I have all my stuff and she's just like, and she owns it. She's like, whatever. I'm just gonna be a messy and that's fun. And I have to, I think she tries really hard for me though because I'm super clean. - Yeah. - So, but if we're in a hotel room for like more than three days, I start to, I'm like- - It explodes on her side. - I'm like, Devon. - It starts to grow on your side. - Your back and I'm like, oh my god. I put myself over here and her starts creeping over. I'm like, okay, we're good, we're good. So, yeah, I probably pretty clean. - I love you. Like, how's cute being, please. Please come to some damage controls. - All right, one word you would use to describe Devon. - She's so optimistic. - I love that. - She's super optimistic. She's always, she's always looking for the gut. - She's always looking for the good, smiling, having fun. And I just think it gets harder as we start to navigate more of those expectations and stuff to like be optimistic, but I still think she continues to like really be optimistic. And if I'm not having a good day, like she's always bringing the energy up. She's very supportive, very positive. And I do think she's just a very optimistic person. - I love that. - All right, last question. Who's more athletic, you or Evan? - I gotta say myself, right? - No, he's a freak though. Like, he's like, I mean, I might have to give him, he's really good at everything in terms of sports. He could do every sport. - Yeah, but he's also really good at everything. Like, he was a valedictorian of his high school. Like, he's so smart, he's so athletic. I'm like, can you, can you, can you? Like, you're so annoying. - Like, I need to give it to him. - You share some talent for the rest of us. - I need to give it to him, but I kind of have to. He is, and like, he jumps so, like, he's just a freak athlete. I'm like, what the heck? But. - You're like, fingers crossed that goes to our kids. - I got it. I gotta like, stand strong and I think I'm a better volleyball player. - Period. - I've also been playing volleyball for like 20 years. Like, I have way more experience than him. - Okay. - And I think he, I do things better, athlete. He's a better cook. He's a better, he's a better at a lot of things than me. I'll give him his powers. - That's the whole point of, you know, marrying somebody. It's like, sometimes I'm like, I need to, like, start picking it up because I, like, I'm really gonna do the dishes. - I'm gonna pick on my slime. - For the laundry. - There you go. - I'm really good at having a good time. - Yeah. - You keep the vibes, I keep the vibes higher, try to. - I'm just entertaining you. - I can do that for sure, all day. - There you go. - But yeah, I think Evan might be, might have me beat, so. - Wow. - That's big. - He's gonna make this his ringtone to say, no. - That's big, I know. - He's gonna be replaying this episode over and over and over and over. - I read this, but I'll give it to him right now. - Well, thank you so much for coming on. - Thank you. - You're amazing. - Thank you so much. I'm so excited for you and just honored to have done this. - Thank you. - Thank you. - Go Bruins. - Go Bruins! - All right, you guys, thank you so much for watching and be sure to tune in every Wednesday. I'll see you next time. (upbeat music) [MUSIC]