Gracie & Miles Chamley-Watson on Olympic Fencing, Being Different, & Launching a League

I was a pretty bad kid growing up, Dennis the Menace, and I was super ADHD, ADD, dyslexic, everything, and fencing kind of became my Adderall, literally my drug, and I was just addicted to it. If I didn't have fencing in my life, I don't think I'd be talking to you from outside of the cell. Today's guest is a three-time Olympian, Olympic bronze medalist, two-time world champion, and first-ever African-American world champion. He is one of the most influential figures in modern fencing, known for redefining the sport with his performance and personality. Now he's stepping into a new chapter as the founder of the World Fencing League, with a vision to transform fencing on a global scale. Launching on April 25th, right here in LA, he plans to evolve the sport of fencing beyond its traditional roots. Miles Chamblee-Watson, welcome to Athletes After Hours. Wow, what an intro. Thank you so much for having me. That was good. I feel like you hyped me up, didn't it? Oh, great. Of course. You are quite the icon in the fencing world. I'm going to let you say that, but it was a pleasure to be here. Thank you. And congrats on all your success as well. Oh, thank you. You're smashing it too. Thank you so much. Well, I want to just jump right into it, because you have a very unique background. I want to know how you got into fencing, where you're from, and really, like, who got you into it. Yeah. All right. So, it's a crazy story. So, I was born in London. Okay. I was, you know, a pretty bad kid growing up. Dennis the Menace. Oh, no. Yeah, yeah. I played football, track and field. And then my mom met my stepdad, who's my dad, who was working in investment banking. Then we moved to New York kind of in the middle of the year. Went to public school. Oh, no. Yeah, as a British mixed kid. It wasn't easy. So, obviously, got lots of fights. And then my mom met this lady that was on the admissions program for a private school to give tuition grants. She's like, well, I can give your son an interview, but I don't know if he's going to get in. So, I got in. You know what I mean? Okay. Maybe because of the accent. But as a punishment, I had to pick up tennis, fencing, or badminton because they're considered mental sports. Okay. I was like, well, you know, football or soccer for you guys. And I was like, all right, whatever. I picked up swords. And I was like, wait, this is kind of fun. Every little kid at that age. Loves swords. Exactly. Right? It's like you pick it up with your friends with a stick in the backyard. I was like, wait, this is like amazing. And then as I started to get better in fencing, so I was like, get better in school. And I was super ADHD, ADD, dyslexic, everything. And fencing kind of became my like adderall. Wow. Yeah. So, if I never got into trouble, I would never go out of trouble. I love that. Which is a double-sided sword. Which is, yeah, crazy. And then 9-11 happened and then moved to Philadelphia. Wow. Then I went to Quaker school, which that didn't work out very well for me. So, then I went to boarding school in Long Island. Shout out to the Knox school. They're amazing. Mrs. Bolt, my favorite teacher in the whole world. Aw. And, yeah, that's kind of how fencing kind of progressed for me. But Ellen Grayson at the Dwight school kind of saw my talent. And she was the reason why I was able to kind of, you know, fence outside of school. So, without her and Eric Rosenberg, I would never be who I am today, for sure. Wow. Yeah. That's incredible. I want to go back to the ADHD thing because that resonated a lot. I have raging ADHD. I feel like most athletes do. I feel like it's kind of a. Weird prerequisite to, like, get into a sport is just be ADHD out of your mind. 100%. And that's how I got thrown into gymnastics to begin with anyways was I literally could not sit still. And so, like, for you, how have you kind of utilized, I guess, this sport to advance your ADHD or help medicate it? Or are you medicated? Yeah. No, I've never taken that. Wow. I remember one time, this is like a horror story, but I was in boarding school and my mom was just two knots. And I was like, well, deal with it. And they're like, you have to take. It was called Ritalin. Oh, yeah. Gnarly. And they tried to put it in my mouth. And I was like, yeah. And I just, like, spat it back. I was like, never. Yeah, it was wild. And I was like, no, I'm not taking that. Because I saw kids that would take it and they would just be, like, numb. Yeah, they're like robots. You know? And I think. I mean, to me, ADHD is like. It's for people, obviously, their minds, obviously, you know. But it was like finding something that you can just give your attention to that you love. Yeah. And I feel like everybody's first option is to give kids drugs. But I'm like, just find something. Whether it's art, whether it's, you know, fashion, whether it's sports. It's like, just finding something that they love. Yeah. And, yeah, so that was, like, my way out. Because fencing is like physical chess. Okay. And it, like, forces you to focus without really realizing you're focusing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Does that make sense? For sure. Because you're focused on the point, otherwise you're going to get hit. Yeah. Or stabbed, right? For sure. So it kind of just became, like, literally my drug. And I was just addicted to it. That's sick. And it was like. When you put the, you know, the helmet on, you kind of feel like a superhero. Yeah. I mean, you look like one, so. I mean, you know, it's a pretty cool outfit. Yeah. And I think that was kind of the reason why I was able to deal with my ADHD was because of fencing. If I didn't have fencing in my life, I don't think I'd be talking to you from outside of a cell. I was a. Shout out to my mom. Yeah. I love you. She's an angel, huh? Oh, my God. I was such a pain in the ass. Aw. For no reason, really. You're just angsty. Yeah. But now she's, you know, now she's. Were you an only child? No, I've got two sisters. Okay. Santori's my older sister. Siddy's my little sister. Okay. And then my mom got six aunts. Wow. Grandmother. So I was raised by women until my, you know, stepdad came into my life. He's my dad. He called my stepdad. He's my dad. Yeah. He raised you. A hundred percent. So without him in there teaching me how to become a man, my mom was definitely the one that was teaching me everything. Wow. Yeah. I firmly believe when a man grows up with strong females. Mm-hmm. presence, it shapes men into, like, far better men. Yeah. It just. I don't know what it is. It's just. Yeah. Something about it is just next level. For sure. And it gives you, like, the most incredible confidence as well. Yeah. Because I think women are so emotionally in tune, and they recognize that confidence is so key to really take on the world, even if sometimes it's delusional confidence. It's just, like, that level of confidence, I think, is really what helps us be able to take these massive steps. And I think that's what we need to be able to take these massive steps into, like, entrepreneurship and putting ourselves out there and being brave and doing all the things. I see this all the time. Women are superheroes. Yeah. Like, I couldn't even imagine, like, creating a child. Oh, yeah. I don't want to think about that. And then making a child. I'm the one that's going to have to do it, so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll just be there, like, cheering her on, like, you can do it. From behind the curtain. But no, women are incredible. And I think, like you said, it's literally perfect. Yeah. Being raised by my mom has taught me everything, you know? Like, my emotions, it's okay to let them out. Because a lot of men, you know, suppress those emotions. Yeah. And it's like, oh, you're not macho enough. Like, mate, that doesn't mean anything. Yeah. So I think that's why I've been able to, you know, turn into the man I am today. It was because of my mom. That's incredible. For sure. Shout out, mama. Shout out, momsy. Lizzie, I love you. Aw, love her. Yeah, she's the best. That's amazing. I was going to ask you, I mean, you obviously have this incredible confidence instilled in you, and I think anyone can see it from a mom's perspective. I know I'm a mile away, no pun intended. That's good. I didn't even mean to do that. But where do you think there was this moment in your career that really was a turning point for you to completely step into who you are today? That's a good question, Saf. Thank you. Probably, say, 2013. Okay. After my first Olympics. I was a baby then. How old were you then? 19, 20. I'm not going to say. I'm not going to go to math. 20, 19, 20, 20, 20, 20, I think. You were 20 years old. Yeah, in London, my first one. At your first Olympics. In London. Wow. Yeah. And I actually got fourth there, and I was in the Team USA room, and the whole basketball team comes down, and Kobe comes in there, and he's- Shut up. Yeah, I never forget the story. It's like so vivid to me. I have him tattooed on my leg. And he's like, oh, what sport do you play? And I was like, fencing. What happened? I got fourth. And then he said, the greatest athletes have the shortest memory. Be a goldfish. And I was like, all right. And then I took that, and then I won world championships for the first time in the history of the sport. And I think that was the greatest moment of my life, probably to date. Wow. And then that's when I was like, okay, fencing's my purpose. Wow. That's it. Uh-huh. Because there was no one before me that you could be like, oh, look, he's successful. He's making a lot of money. He's a star. So I told my mom, I was like, listen, I'll be the first millionaire fencer. It's like saying you'll see a unicorn. I just said it randomly. Yeah. But it's in your DNA. Yeah. I just feel like I will get whatever I want, you know? Yeah. Not in a cocky way, just like I know what I want. No, no, no. I can tell. Like, you have that special thing in you where it's like, I'm the same way. Like, I'm so stubborn in the best way, where I'm like, the second I want something, I'm going to get it. There's no, it's ends of box. Yeah. You know, one of my tattoos is self-belief here. Love. Which is all you need, I think. Yeah. Tell little kids that's all you need in life. That's it. I love that. I mean, I can attest, every Olympian I've ever met, interviewed, or have been friends with, they all have, like I've said, this incredible self-belief and delusional confidence. And I think, like, people have asked me, like, you know, what's the difference between a pro athlete and an Olympian, or a regular athlete and an Olympian? I'm like, delusional confidence. Yeah. Honestly. It's just like, thinking about something outrageous, but firmly believing that you can do it. 100%. And that's all it takes, truly. Yeah, you have to be crazy. Yeah. You got to be a little, you got to have a screw loose. Yeah, you need a couple. For sure. Two or three, you know, off the five, you're like. Now we're, yeah, now we need to maybe be medicated at that point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. See the doctor. But 100%, I think that's what, like you said perfectly, that's what. what makes the best athletes well who they are yeah it's just I know what I want whether my coach does whether my friends don't my family do I know deep down inside that I will get what I want yeah I think what sucks sometimes when it comes to that level of delusional confidence is I'm sure you've experienced a lot of backlash from being very you know stood in your spot you know what you want you're you're willing to get it how has that kind of affected your journey to where you are now yeah uh great question I mean the backlash is something that you kind of want in a weird way okay I think that's walking through it that's when you that's when you know you're really changing something that's been set in stone for so long yeah okay and especially in my sport which is you know predominantly white yeah um it hasn't really changed for you know hundreds of years fencing is one of the oldest sports you know in the world and it's been a really big change for me and I think it's been a big change for me and I think it's been a big change for me and I think it's been a big change for me and I in the olympiad so I think when I was you know the first black person to win was like oh okay and then being the face of a sport that hasn't seen someone like me get backlash from people that in the federation or in the in the just parents or like politics get involved and yeah right and I think that's something that you have very thick skin for absolutely very thick skin so now when I can see kids and parents messaging me oh my god like my kiddies get bullied in school and they show them a picture of you and that changes so that's bigger than any medal I could ever win for sure wow yeah and I think that's what's really cool is seeing you know boys girls yellow brown whatever that might be that are happy to just do what they want to do because I've inspired them yeah that's that's awesome so absolutely I mean I kind of like it I kind of like being the man that ruffles feathers yeah because it's like if you it's funny people be like oh my god you're a nice guy absolutely I'm like bruv you don't what do you mean they're like yes they think I'm just an asshole really I mean some people yeah and then like no he's actually like an I was like yeah could you just think this paint a picture of me without knowing me yeah um so I think the backlash comes with you making the change and you really really you know trying to do something different than most people um so I've experienced that you know racism in sports since I was 14 15 so that comes you know that comes with whatever you might not know at the time but now with hindsight you're like wait why didn't I oh you know so if I can be the punching bag you only need a lot more punches you need a lot more punches you need a lot more punches I love that so I'll do it for the kids that are looking up to me for sure yeah I absolutely love that I mean you have the personality to take it for sure thank you yeah like that's an impressive role to take knowing that you are going to be kind of this massive poster child for an entirely new era of sport yeah it is super disappointing to hear though that you are one of the first african-american men to ever like what yeah it's 2026 yeah it's crazy because there's been you know this guy peter westman before me who was an olympian a little bit you know a little bit medalist um you know uh key smart and smart but no one ever won world championships wow so I have to pay homage to them you know as well but yeah yeah I can't believe I was the first one yeah and you know it's wild and not that long ago yeah and I mean being the first one is you know history which is incredible but then you sit back and you think like I'm not that long ago I'm not that long ago I'm not that long ago I'm not that why you know it's kind of not sad but it's like very shocking I think it's a little sad yeah I think it's sad that there aren't more people like you in the sport I mean look how amazing you've done in the sport I think if anything that should inspire more people to try it yeah to get into it and I mean I'm trying to think of like the first african-american female in gymnastics like I honestly it was so long ago do you know what I mean yeah I think that's what kind of makes me sad it's just like I don't know there's just there there needs to be representation why do you think there isn't representation in your sport I mean I think there's a couple reasons I think one is is is people are maybe scared to you know take that burden on or take that first step I think right um I just don't think people have been maybe thought that way or been like listen I want to be the greatest in what I'm doing yeah because it is like you said it's a crazy thing to think like my first coach Irene I just saw a last week in New York and she's like well even change you just bigger couple of tattoos right like that's super cool to be the same but knowing like I knew at like 15 I was like I'm gonna yeah I just knew I'm gonna do something I'm gonna do something good I don't know what it was but I knew that I would do something um pretty special or try to at least but what's the worst thing that happens you fail no literally like who cares oh I love that like who like it's I don't understand who cares and also like no one's actually really watching like no one cares I was like we're out here making it like we're the main character when we're really not even the main character we're not even on set yeah I'm like my boy who actually cares yeah you know I literally do not care I love that what anyone thinks I love my parents I love them to death you're gonna do you I'm gonna do me you know and I it's it's it's refreshing to just actually do what you want you know people like say like I do what I want that's why I do yeah like they don't talk they do yeah I'm a huge advocate for that because I hate people that just are all talk it's like my biggest ick like bro shut up and just do it then like I don't I don't even believe you until you do it that's the massive turnoff for just people in general yeah I feel like you've really set yourself up to be this massive like big brother role model for an entire sport which is a really cool thing and I just want to know how did you find this voice of yours to take on this role and really like step into this completely terrifying entrepreneur situation where you're like I want to launch an entire league to help the next generation yeah I think it started like as I started to get a little more you know people oh it's miles he's you know that's why I changed my name to fencer yeah one people to know yeah I do fashion and stuff like that's my main purpose yeah um and Michael Strahan's one of my mentors always told me don't mess up your main which is my sport Michael Strahan is your mentor yeah it's my brother I love him to death I said my mom that's not my big bro I launched a league on good morning america because of him no way yeah yeah he's probably the one of the best people in the whole world oh that's so cool I love a man who can like really really help and support when they have that platform to be able to offer that to people who deserve it I mean you're doing amazing things you deserve to have a platform you deserve to use your voice yeah so that's really cool that he was able to amplify that for you yeah he's literally incredible um so I'm so grateful for him but I think like it came from obviously winning you know a good amount and then lost olympics I was like seeing who I brought to my match like all my friends are there yeah and I'm like okay I can bring a crowd in here the hard part is how do you get them here and then I thought about okay all my athletes all my teammates people you know still trying to figure themselves out but there's no like real roadmap post olympics right there's nothing really to make state income yeah it's really big endorsement based I'm grateful that I've got you know a lot of those I'm very very grateful but it's like the kids coming up like what they're gonna do post college oh yeah I mean same with gymnastics right because point zero one percent make the olympics and even if you do make the olympics so you get a medal what do you do after you get a medal you can't use that medal to buy a house exactly right and they're gonna tax you on that always now they don't tax you on that whatever yeah but you know they make billions of dollars off of us and it's like how do we figure out a way to make this of an actual ecosystem where the next kids growing up can really funnel in and really like have an end goal and I was like why don't I create a league that's so sick you're insane I was like no no like I want to have an actual league where like I want to franchise this I want to franchise this model I want to so parents so parents and kids can invest themselves but okay look mom there's an actual end goal for me I can join the you know the world fencing league you know we can pay these kids you can find these kids we can help them get to schools we can you know yeah we can mentor these kids and give them an opportunity to just do one thing which is just fence I love that I want kids to just be able to just fence and not have to worry about oh I need to I need to go to work and they make some money because you can't give 100% in the sport if you have something else to worry about yeah right and I see it so much in the sport where kids can't commit because they have to work a nine-to-five which I get it but how do we really change this yeah and I have a great team amazing team Leo's and Carl who's been incredible and you're with UTA as well yeah they're the best they're the best yeah and they've and they've really changed the world and they've really changed the world they've been helping me because obviously there's so much stuff I'm doing outside of this yeah and they're all invested you know that you know they bought some suites and finding amazing people oh and they're really seeing you know miles of brand not just me you know that's just you know the athlete yeah that's very very rare and agencies in within people especially if you see me you're like oh he's a fencer and they're like oh no actually he's completely different and I just think that like me being a fencer was like my like my issue like detriment yeah but now that's actually a shift yeah right because that's the thing that gave you the platform to exactly yeah and like I never wanted to be like you know just a normal statistic I wanted you know rather be like an anomaly and I thought that's like what I was set out to do that was a bar right there by the way that is sick uh but no but honestly it was like I was like I'm gonna do this and when I'm done this this you know journey these kids will now have a full roadmap and infrastructure to become a professional fencer that's my and that's gonna happen that's so cool and yeah and I think that's april 25th i can't believe it's so soon it's so soon are you freaking out not really not yet i'll check on you like three days in advance yeah like two and a half weeks but yeah yeah but eventually i think it's gonna hit me but we have the best benches in the world competing uh changing the format changing the rules i'm so excited i'm coming so yeah yeah i'm about to be locked in it's gonna be amazing and it's gonna give an audience a whole new kind of perspective of the sport because we have new ai blade tracking no way it's gonna look like a video game shut up yeah oh this is so sick i'm so excited to see it what a cool idea i mean did you just have like what sparked all of this inspiration i think i always knew i want to do something like this but then my boy sean white created his snow league and my friend paul ray will do the plo yeah um and they're like dude you should you know i think you could do something really special and why fencing is very unique is because we're global yeah absolutely so we're like and you have i mean is it it's yeah kind of a richer sport isn't it yeah very because it's very expensive yes like you know coaches equipment competitions it's kind of like golf it's like very like high class yeah and it's like how do you get into it either your school or your parents might have done it i'm very lucky kind of how i got into it but now i want to create like you know from the grassroots level like how do we get fencing every single middle school high school college incorporate into pe you're trying to get like there's not even a different program at ucla oh yeah that's not true not shocking at all you know they're they yeah they with all the title nine stuff it's impossible to get new sports in i'm gonna get it in there i'm here for me i'm so here for it i'm gonna get in every school why i know like it's the sickest sport we're stopping people for a living yeah you know legally but we're sword fighting like it's cool i love boston ball a lot of my friends i play a lot of football but like we're literally sword fighters yeah you know i mean you're literally like professional superheroes it's sick yeah so i think when people can see it in a way that they're like okay we understand what it can bring so that's my goal it's essentially a rebrand is what you're doing you're putting your cool trendy spin on it yeah but it's a rebrand for sure and it's not just for me like it's for the kids coming up and the kids currently doing it oh i think we know it's not just for you i know that you're the the vessel that's going to take the ship forward but also like you everything you've said already is like your purpose is for the next generation and that is that is why i started this podcast i mean i cannot relate more to that because i think when you have your purpose rooted in yourself like it only goes so far and then you feel like you're lost so to be able to have an outside inspiration and to have something that's really pushing you and inspiring you every day that's outside yourself it's just like one is a huge testament to who you are and your character but also it's gonna carry and it's gonna happen exactly and i'm sure like for you when you keep it in your whole life since i'm sure you're a little you know a little kid yeah and then you're done and your identity is like what do i do and it's gonna be scary scary as shit you know and i'm like you know i'm gonna have to you know hang out the mosque you're gonna have that time yeah but i know like that i've done everything that's what i wanted to do and now i'm doing something completely different but i want to like not just you know finish my career and be like sit my hands but what's next because that's that's how you lose your mind so um i'm trying to like create this system so when i'm you know easing out of the sport it's a smooth transition yeah i mean i was gonna say i feel like you've already done a phenomenal job of doing that i think the transition out would actually be a lot smoother than you would think because you've you've developed your identity outside of your sport so much like you have so many other masks that you wear you you know you're the model you're the content creator you're the or do you do public speaking like yeah then a brand so much outside of fencing obviously fencing is the main core thing and that's the pillar and then everything else kind of circles around it but you have i feel like inspired a shitload of professional athletes to do something very similar yeah and to kind of be a trailblazer in their sport because it's gonna save your ass in the long run when you do have those moments of okay like do i have to stay in the sport because i have nothing else or can i hang up the mask because i have nothing else or can i hang up the mask because i have nothing else i'm excited for my life outside of this exactly which is a massive difference huge difference so and that's like it's crazy i think like i've been doing since i was like 10 or 11 i forget the age yeah and to be doing it for you know this long and then now i'm like oh what's next you know but i'm grateful that i have a lot of things that i'm doing yeah so like it's a healthy distraction i call it for now for sure i mean the world fencing league is going to be a very healthy distraction yeah it's probably got you very busy it's i mean it's so i'm gonna i'm on all the calls i'm on all the meetings yeah i'm very grateful my team's incredible yeah like incredible but it is a lot of work absolutely it is so much work what's been the hardest part about creating an entire league i mean i think just from ideation to an actual execution yeah like an actual when you i think probably getting the venue and we're at the shrine i was gonna ask where is it at at the shrine which we had the after his old oscar so it's like so epic it's a it's a crazy that's a big deal yeah so i'm not having a little this is gonna be it's not a soft launch no this is we're making a statement here let's go how many people do you think are gonna come i mean i think we're i think we already sold a thousand tickets wow holy shit uh this isn't great it's crazy um but yeah i mean hopefully we sold out my goal is to sell it out i think we're getting pretty close let's go um that's huge yeah i just want also i want all the athletes to be known as stars so i want them all to you know everybody to see them you know everyone hollywood everybody in other sports to fashion that we will be there as well so it's also to give eyes for everybody else you know as well but yeah it's nuts i mean i could see it turning into kind of like a tennis or a golf where yeah it's still extremely respected there's tons of people that want to go and be spectators yeah but it has this like cool classy vibe to it yeah and this like elite level of respect yeah and we have den su as our tech partner and then crazy thing is rws is putting our event on and they do the last five olympics get out i gotta know your plug i gotta know all your networks because that's they did the last olympics in paris when we walked down the grand palais and did all that stuff so like if you're gonna do this you can't and it's expensive and you can't skim anything because it's like from you know when the athletes walk in to the production to the music um it's so important to me so i want it to be you know incredible so from from the from the drinks to the you know every little detail is merch is fire to you have merch what could you think this is love it's not this it's not that okay i mean the hats maybe but we have some crazy merch oh i'm excited i think it's so cool when you go somewhere oh i got you know yeah absolutely so yeah you're creating an experience you're not just creating a you know a sport i want people to be like oh wow this is really sick you know like offencing matches take eight hours no way from your first match could be 9 a.m and the finals could be 6 p.m oh my god which is you can't have people who's gonna who's gonna stick around for that even my mom who loves me to death she's like i'll see you i'm tired yeah you know so we've condensed that into like i think it's an hour of actually just fencing what's the difference between how you used to do it but now how you want to do it so normally it would be 15 points okay um that could be anywhere from 10 minutes to 14 minutes depending on type of fencer so now we're going on just time okay yeah and so however many hits you can get in the time frame yeah i mean that makes more sense yeah and it's more exciting to watch yeah and it's clean time so it's 10 minutes to 10 minutes love normally it's three minutes was not clean time so you're starting and stopping the clock which you know and like for fans and for tv for you can't keep someone's attention that long no only sport that can kind of do it is tennis yeah and golf i guess but that's only because you don't know when it's gonna end but if you know that there's a goal and a set number then it's not as exciting exactly and we have teams now there's team shield versus team blade oh and then there's you know we got men and women on the same team i heard that there's men and women on the same team which i love yeah yeah shout out to the ladies shout out to the girlies yeah i think i mean they're you know obviously they didn't you know it's not like they were like hey i'm a woman i can't do men obviously but it's three women against women yeah but they're on the same team as us and i think it just shows that like you know we're just as equal just as good i love that and the point is the point absolutely so i think that's very unique um and we have some team i hope more people start doing that actually yeah i mean yeah why not i don't see why not so yeah that's really really cool that's very very unique and very rare so that's exciting and then we have team captains awesome we're done so soon are you competing and i am competing no you're not yeah oh my gosh what team are you on yeah you don't know yet well just stay tuned i'm excited i am the last match oh shit finale yeah yeah oh that's so exciting when was the last time you competed two weeks ago oh okay so you're in season yeah okay i'm supposed to be going to egypt next week but i mean the world's not the best place so yeah let's see if that happens um but yeah we compete probably every three weeks okay two and a half weeks depending how long does your season last it's too long it's from october to july july what yeah ours was january to april yeah which is like no you go it's like what three to four months so we're trying to condense it change that yeah that's insane yeah it also just sucks for you because you do have so many other obligations and responsibilities outside of your sport there's so many i'm trying to juggle right now there's a billion i have to fly in fly out and do this and that and that how do you manage it like how's your mental health shout out to alley wall the manager i'm honestly thank god i'm my mental game is really strong i'm also like i've got amazing best friends we talk about emotions yeah like there's i'm pretty amazing because i think i'm open yeah you know and i think that's that's the difference and your team knows if you're struggling with something or if you're feeling overwhelmed or whatever yeah i'm good on on you know that big shoulder so i can you know i can handle a lot well you know i'm good honestly like you know if i'm ever feeling sometimes i'll talk to my boys i think that's the key is that we're open how you feeling how's everything yeah um and i think that gets you through everything i think absolutely i mean that's such an inspiration too for people to really learn like look at like you're the epitome of vulnerability and you can handle it because you know how to communicate your feelings especially with people like your team because these people are relying on you and if they don't know where you're at mentally they're gonna get blindsided you're gonna crash out you're gonna you know you're gonna have a a bad ending and it's like we can't have that so good for you to be so mentally and emotionally checked in checking in with the boys is important absolutely i don't understand how people such a weird taboo i don't i don't understand it obviously yeah i do get it because growing up it was like you know you're a man and that's it yeah but the world got crazier things started changing social media starts changing start to read a lot of things read comments to get into your head i don't i have this really good thing where like nothing actually that someone says actually bothers me i kind of have that too now i actually like it doesn't even come it took a while to see you exactly it took a while for me because i'm like i feel like as a girl i'm a little bit more like yeah sensitive to specific things tougher for a woman because they can go after your weight yeah it's yeah they go after like weird yeah and i think like as a woman too it's a lot harder to develop confidence in yourself outside of your looks because everyone just makes comments about your looks all the time and i put so much value in that but like the second i developed like my identity outside of i'm just a pretty girl or i'm just whatever i feel like it's like that shit doesn't even matter to me so you can call me fat you want but like i know i'm we snatched it's not even that deep yeah i think you're right on that it's also like what does that say about you yeah versus me it's just like it's not not even people are just jealous man people are just sad it makes me sad honestly i'm like i'm sad for you that that's how you cope with your sad life yeah i mean to attack others it's crazy and you know the bigger you get the more it comes right so you have to just prepare for the worst and you know you really need thick skin yeah you know i mean and you also have a phenomenal community of people that keep you grounded an amazing support system like you you can always like if they have a solid support system yeah my boys keep me in check yeah they're like yo get this shit for me bro i'm like all right you know but like that's what you want well yeah because otherwise your head's not gonna fit through this door i don't care what your name is i don't care you're my boy yeah that's that's the most important thing i think that's so important yeah having great friends around you is it's free therapy and i've never been to therapy but those are my boys so like i'm lucky you know yeah are they coming to the match yeah everyone's coming busy and they're all making time and that means so much to me absolutely because i know also favorites from anybody never had no will but they realize like this is he's doing something big so like yeah you've got everybody's coming oh that's what i'm gonna say i think what's cool too is that because you exude this passion for what you're doing it's really hard not to hop on it thank you and like that's kind of what i've noticed with even launching this podcast because i'm so fired up about it and it's something i'm so passionate about like my team immediately bought in and like my entire support system bought in like we had you know a branded event with berries and we i had 50 of my close friends like come work out with me on the beach to like celebrate the launch and i literally was like holy shit pinch me i can't believe 50 of my friends came to support this like little thing that i'm doing that i'm just super passionate about and to me it was a passion project and it kind of exploded into this bigger thing but i truly believe like if passion is is where you're rooted you can truly take on whatever you want yeah you're also very genuine though yeah you know always you know and i think that that obviously goes a long way yeah and you're just naturally good at it thank you just i forgot we were on a podcast i know i mean what do you mean we're just hanging out having a chat yeah you know that's the difference and that's why you know and congrats to you as well thank you give you your flowers you're crushing it thank you so much yeah i'm really excited to see your project come to fruition it's gonna be mad oh i'm gonna vlog yeah come oh yeah we're making content don't worry there'll be some yeah there'll be some i've never been to a fencing match so there's been one like this before nobody has it's gonna be so epic yeah this is this is gonna be yeah yeah i don't want to say too much okay he's he's keeping his cards close to his chest so obviously the world fencing league is going to be the rebrand of what fencing that's the goal yeah what is maybe what you think is the goal for the next five to ten years of your sport what do you want the next five to ten years of your sport to look like i want fencing on espn period it should be i'm surprised it's not it'll be on there when i'm done it'll be on there um i want them all to be professionals i want to make it a very good salary and i want it to be an infrastructure where they are they are given the opportunity to to thrive and i think it comes from venues locations fans i think when you go to competition there's not much fans it changes the energy absolutely right so i think if we can kind of create this infrastructure where there's thousands of fans at tournaments i mean i think naturally you just work harder you want to be there you want to you know i think that's the difference and i think creating a new audience and then having fencing on you know global uh tv yeah is where i want to be is where i want to be is where i want to be in the sport and there's so much i mean yeah something's working right now but i think that those two being on espn or being on you know abc and being on on the national big tv show i mean not tv show tv channel yeah and having athletes receiving a very good salary those are my two big things because i think once you solve those two then we'll get more kids in it you'll get yeah you know my goal is to get a million kids fencing uh and i think those are the two things i'm working on with my team and there's creating a roadmap where they enjoy going to competitions yeah i think when they're like oh sick you know that's the biggest takeaway is i've been doing this for years i've been on you know all my all the teams a lot of success but there's some competitions you go to and you're like yeah you know and it's like i don't want to sound ungrateful but i sometimes i'm like wow what if we could move this here yeah or you know do this that's a you know a different way i think it's i think it's just yeah those are my kind of biggest things to tackle i mean i don't think there's anything wrong or anything ungrateful about seeing an infrastructure and thinking that it needs to change yeah i think if anything that proves even more passion and more gratitude that you have for the sport because if you didn't give a shit you wouldn't do anything about it yeah exactly all right good luck yeah peace out girl scout i'm done i'm just gonna go roll in my millions of dollars for all these brand deals like the fuck you know what i mean it's just like you're not leaving them out to dry like you're you're putting you're devoting your life to setting up others yeah and the sport gave me everything yeah like i would not be in the man i am without the sport fencing a hundred percent so like i feel like i owe it to the sport that's how i feel too with my sport yeah it's like it's given me everything i'm able to see the world i went to asia for the first time yeah i went to you know and it's it's given me so much so i think i have to give back to the next generation and it's just so lovely to see kids smile like i was at my fencing club in new york i was shooting something really cool and i surprised some little kids and fenced with them like eight-year-old kids oh my gosh it's cute because i'm like yo in 20 years or not even 20 years in 15 years i might be an olympian you know those are the memories special for me as well i think that just makes you human yeah i don't get mad at people i don't get mad at people i get people who change because of fame i i just don't understand that either i don't understand that we all we're all gonna die at the end of the day no one's actually that big of a deal it makes no sense yeah just be a good person exactly when we someone who is famous and who is a good person you're like okay you deserve all of it you know and i think what's so cool is that you're taking your experience that you had with kobe and you're replicating that because it was such imagine if he was an asshole you know what i mean it's like you can't help but think like how much your life and trajectory would have changed if like that one simple interaction went differently yeah and i think i think about that all the time too with just like one time i was at my gymnastics alumni meet a bunch of girls were screaming my name and so i like waved to them and took a video and put on my story and a girl asked me like do you do that with all your fans and kind of like an interesting tone and i was like yeah like if it takes me 20 seconds to make someone's year to make someone's day i'm gonna fucking do it yeah why not it's a no-brainer yeah why would i not and if anything it like just makes me even happier to be able to have that platform and that opportunity to give back and make someone's day like you how incredible is that that we have the power to do that yeah and it's like we're not utilizing that power it's just a missed opportunity like yeah you made the wrong one famous yeah yeah exactly yeah and it's like parents oh you're so nice to kids i'm like i don't even think about it like that no you know it's why would i not be second nature yeah so yeah it's awesome it's a blessing oh i love that well i want to get into a little segment i do here on the show called dear athlete and it's an opportunity for us to kind of share our wisdom and give advice to the younger generation which i feel like is very on brand for you since you love helping the young ones i love that um first one is what's one piece of advice you would give young athletes who feel different or like they don't belong that a you do belong and that you've been different is actually your strength and that's your gift i think that's what i realized pretty young that like that's actually your gift and people are so you know when they're all your adhd you're like no that's actually your strength and especially human being so i think and i honestly really believe like if you truly truly truly believe in yourself yeah like deep down inside know that want some confidence or i can some preparation then you really will become the man or the woman that you want to be for the future i think that is so important there's all these things you can do like yeah but just confidence and self-belief are the most important things right and it's like something oh you're you know what so what you know your skin color your shoes are stupid right it's like okay but if you truly know that i'm the best yeah it just prepares you for just you know anything yeah so i think that's like what i would tell people kids little kids is just like just believe in yourself instill that into you since you're five years old you know we're gonna want to say i am the best i love that look in that little mirror you know because that's more probably yeah you know you're like i'm the best it's not cold just say i'm the best i'm the best i'm the best version of myself as well like there's no one that's ever gonna be like me no and i think knowing that is one of the most empowering feelings as well like you're literally a snowflake yeah not one other person has been cloned to be like you and that's your super that's it that's your superpower 100 and yeah i could not agree more i mean that was something i was gonna say as well it's just like being unique especially in this day and age is a strength yeah it sets you apart it helps you stand out i mean look at you like you've leaned into it you've dyed your hair you've gotten tattoos like you've leaned into the uniqueness that is you and you've been authentically yourself from day one and all that's gonna do is continue to inspire people to do the exact same thing and i really really hope that people see people like you and all they feel is just pure inspiration to be authentically themselves i hope so i think you're doing a great job i'm just a kid from london that just didn't didn't know for an answer yeah simple as that i love it all right second one is what's one thing you wish you learned sooner well this is a good old question right i wish i learned sooner i can go first if you want yeah yeah ladies you OK um i would say love yourself no matter what self-love will always get you through yeah kind of like piggybacking on the last question but also just recognizing like no one will love yourself more than you and it's your responsibility to pick yourself up and dust yourself off because life's gonna kick you down and life is gonna get complicated and messy and if you can't sit with yourself and be proud of who you are it's gonna be a really tough route to get through yeah great great answer thank you i would probably say that your uniqueness and you being different sets you apart from everybody that's the same love it why would you want to be like everybody else is so boring people are scared of themselves oh that's good but it's exhausting have you ever tried being something you're not never oh my god i'm not even like i couldn't even do i couldn't even i tried to get into stunts and it was like acting and stunts and stuff and i tried and i'm like i can't even be this like version that they want me to be like i just i can't be anything but myself it's just exhausting i never did or like ever i mean have you ever done a brand deal where they're like they script you or something and they have you to act like no you're like no absolutely not it's crazy i turn down so much because they try to put you in a box it's not me i love it and my team's like miles this is a lot of money and i'm like i don't care it's not worth abandoning yourself but when everyone when i wasn't making that crazy money i would be like damn i could use this now yeah but i just know i don't do one-offs i don't do because it just limits like who you are yeah you know and i i'm sure i have done something in the past i'm missing yeah sure but i try my best not to ever do those because i just just makes me feel you know yeah a little cringed out i'm like and then it's like they bought you for this and i'm like what am i doing like a gummy bear in my hand you know yeah you know let's say harry bell because i love sweets yeah we love harry bell i love sweets yeah yeah probably that i mean at the end of the day too what you're essentially telling your audience and the brand that's buying you is like you don't like who i already am and i'm okay with that like that can be bought and i think at the end of the day like that sucks that's a hard pill to swallow that you're willing to abandon yourself for a check yeah true it really is it has a ripple effect who just do things for the check and it's like yeah are you even who are you yeah because every every brand that i've been with i've been with me since day one and i've been with them the whole time yeah richard mill nike mercedes-benz like and i'm like they're brands that you know and love yeah but they invested in me yeah for me and then i'm invested in them because they've supported me and it's like we're family yeah you've created that bond now that's forever yeah like i'm not going anywhere you know and then i'll go anywhere hopefully and that's rare as hell too like that's really impressive that you were able to pull that off because as a content creator who's been in this world now for three years like yeah it's it's tough to do not a lot of people very hard are willing to invest in the human first yeah because all they see are numbers and it's such a saturated market now that the fact that they've invested in you as a person and they see your vision and they want to see your vision and they want to see your make it come to life is really special they're incredible like i got my you know my first nike shirt we'll get you one which is like it's gonna match my outfit yeah pink pink was my favorite color and same yes the best color and it's winning and i was like i couldn't imagine that they were like no you're gonna be able to do this and i was like like yeah well you're not offensive to us you're yeah you're miles so i think that was once again like that was my gift it's like i'm not a basketball player i'm not a football player i'm not a basketball player i'm not a football player i'm you're wearing a fence or shoe and that's a crazy concept even think about you know that is really wild so i'm so grateful for them i love them to death i love everyone that i work with because it's family and imagine if they shot down your ideas do i mean like it's truly like it's so important who you surround yourself with because those delusional ideas that you throw out there if someone doesn't take it and run with it and they shoot it down it's like they are big names and they are big brands that you're like you do have to take their opinion obviously like you said you don't really care what people think but like to have an entire support system behind you backing it is huge i'm so grateful for them yeah that's massive beyond all right last one what is something you think every athlete should be doing to help build their personal brand since you've done such a phenomenal job at that figuring out exactly who i am and exactly what i want and nothing in between matters until you get to the end yeah that made any sense no no that makes sense for sure i mean that's how i i always voice it as well and i'm not a basketball player i'm not a basketball player i'm not a basketball being your most authentic self online yeah when you are trying to build a brand and you're trying to work with like you said brands that actually align with you and your your values and your beliefs and just continuing to be that genuine version of yourself because it will burn you out if you try to be something that you're not yeah it will feel like a job it will feel like a chore and i think when you want to take a brand as far as you have or maybe even i have i feel like i would not be able to do this job if i was building a brand and i would not be able to do this job being something else i'd be fucking tired yeah it's exhausting girl would be cashed out like i'd be done knowing who you are is obviously number one and then being able to emulate that online with brands and commercials whatever it is um but i do think social media is one of the biggest assets for athletes now to be able to utilize that viral moment to be able to put yourself on a big stage that like something like you you know you're not even on espn yet so it's like utilize tiktok utilize instagram get yourself out there get the sport out there and i think creating those viral moments is what's really going to launch the sport into a whole different stratosphere 100 i think like that's your gifts right as a mom relevant every four years per se because you look like i'm relevant every day if you want absolutely so it's like just honestly people are invested now yeah and it's like just be yourself and like anthony edwards is a great example of also player he is so funny but he's himself yeah i watched him with him when president obama and he's just like the same he would be with his boy the president and i'm like he's iconic yeah but i'm like that's just don't like him because he truly doesn't care who's in front of but he's a lovely he seems like a lovely person and he's just himself so i think that i would say back to your last question was just find out who you are and don't lose sight of who you are along the journey yeah that's it that's huge that's that's what i would probably say yeah that's it and it's okay to be scared to do something that's being scared is actually kind of fun i think it's important i think it's quite fun it means you're doing something purposeful yeah and and then once you get over that that hump right you're like what's that scared of you know and i think fear is something that people are so scared to address right but it's just you're just something new for the first time just you know do it you're like oh what's that scared of no literally you know like it really wasn't that deep no it really wasn't we always build it up to be way bigger than it is too so yeah it's just fear yeah that's it it's not that deep not deep at all and you get stabbed for a living so you can trust yeah that man knows something about fear i'm not i'm not i'm not scared of much i just don't like cockroaches they terrify me and you lived in new york and they jump and shit yeah oh no yeah that's something i don't like that's like being scared of spires and everything in australia oh yeah it'd be my best thing in australia and when we were in byron bay and i'll open the room and there's like a just black spider i was like no i'm not sleeping until i find this guy no yeah no i'm done i'm burning the whole place down i found it but you can't kill it because then they come up with the whole the whole mandem and they'll have a pot in your room so i got it into a cup and we took it outside i don't like bugs no i don't like bugs either and mosquitoes they're just the worst people in the whole world why are they even here i don't know if they serve a purpose they're here causing problems do they serve a purpose mosquitoes i don't think so you know yeah just completely digressed to insects and shit yeah i'm so dead well i have nothing left for you i just want to know if there's anything else you want to say while we have you here it was a pleasure it was a pleasure a lot of fun congrats on your success thank you you too and um i'll see you april 25th i will see you april 25th i will see all of you april 25th you better be there yeah it's gonna be epic some tickets available i think so okay get them all right get them before they're gone it's gonna be a show awesome a new phase for the sport so i'm excited thank you yay thank you guys so much i will see you next wednesday yay we're done that was so pleasure that was easy yeah i know it's so easy thank you you're so easy to talk to i know so you asked me why i i don't wear shoes it's because literally when i sit my feet don't touch the ground and then there's you five two but my legs are really short