Gracie & Michael Andrew on Olympic Swimming, Redefining Success, & the Road to 2028

I'm missing the Paris team by a tenth of a second. No fucking way. That was hectic, yeah. They pulled sponsorships. Oh yeah, no, I lost everything. I came home from Tokyo thinking I had failed, even though I had a gold medal and a world record. It took me two years to realize that that's bullshit. He's an Olympic gold and silver medalist in Tokyo. He's a multiple-time world champion, short course world record holder, and one of the most versatile swimmers in the world. Michael Andrew. Welcome to Athletes After Hours. Thanks for having me. I'm glad this finally worked. I'm so glad we could make this happen. We've been going back and forth for a minute, but we're here. Oh my God, you're so tan. Hawaii, actually, honestly, it's been my San Diego days. Really? I feel like I've gotten more sun in the last week here than I have in the two months I've been living in Hawaii. Okay, wait, I'm actually kind of shocked. Yeah, so we're going through our rainy season. Oh, true. And we haven't seen the sun in like three weeks. Okay. Yeah, so we've made it back into the sun and finally on the pod. So I'm so excited. Yeah. So funny story is we were literally full-blown set to have a sports swap and do the pod. Yeah, we had a full week planned. A full week itinerary planned. I am so OCD. I like had a full thing set and we found a gym on the North Shore and Red Bull was having like a fitness event out on the North Shore. And so they invited me out there. I was like, oh, this is perfect. I'm going to hit up Michael. We're going to shoot our stuff. It's going to be so fun. We're going to get him in the gym and do some flips. And it's. It literally just fell through because of the weather. They were like, the weather's so bad. And honestly, thank God they told us before. It would have been miserable. It would have been bad. It all works out. I feel like I was a little nervous too because I actually that same week was flying to Westmont to race in my first pro series of the year, which is also like my first race back with my dad, which I'm sure we'll touch on. Yeah. But I was like, hmm, should I be tumbling and doing this all? I was like, I mean, senders going to send. But yeah. It all works out. I'm glad that we did not send any flips before that big race. So it's okay. I was just surfing reefy spots anyway. Casual. Speaking of the race, I heard you did amazing. It was good. Yeah. Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah. So I kind of, I left the meet number two in the world in one event. I think it was top three in the other. Overall, really stoked with where we're at. So swimming a lot faster than where I was last year this time. Cool. And even I think world champs. So last year, our peak was world champs in August in Singapore. And I swam almost all my times were right on or faster than what I swam there, which is gnarly. So like this early in the season to be swimming fast is a great sign of the direction. That's insane. I mean, I feel like with swimming, it's very like analytical of your times. Like you're so big on, you know, knowing what times like, I think that's so fascinating because that's obviously nothing like gymnastics, but does that kind of, also maybe an intern kind of like worry you because like maybe you don't, you don't want to peak obviously at the beginning. That's a good point. So like, have you thought about that where it could be? It's, it's weird. So it's, it is unique to the athlete. Um, I think for my case specifically, so I grew up, my dad was my coach, my whole career. I went pro really early. And so we kind of had this different mentality towards, um, swimming at a high level. And we actually got a lot of shit for it early on. I think, I think people didn't understand why we were racing fast and breaking records early in the season. And they all thought, okay, well you got to do this long, break the body down, you know, really, really break it down. And then you recover and you do what they call like a taper. I don't know if they have that in other sports, but yeah, they're like taper. And then in theory, you're going to peak higher than where you started the season. But we, our mentality or mentality around it. And kind of this methodology was we want to break down, but allow for recovery. And we could, continually stair-step throughout the season. Now, as you get older, like I'm 26 now, when I was 14 to like 18, you can consistently just get faster and faster throughout the season. Yeah. But now it's like margins are so small. So it's all become super technical. So I don't think I like swim as like, I can't peak as many times in the season. So you do kind of throughout your career that shifts a little bit. Yeah. But I always was like, you know, if you feel good and you're ready to go, like go, any time of the year. And we also got shit because like in swimming, we shave our whole body and most of you're like a seal. Yeah. It's awesome. It's like, I know the girlies get it, but it's like the best thing is shaving your whole body and putting a pair of sweats on or getting in like clean sheets. And you're like, I feel like a new being and but it's awesome. And so like, there's like this sensory thing behind it. And we got a lot of crap because early in the season or all these pro series, I would shave. And no one else was because they're like, Oh, this isn't like my peak meat. Like I'm training through it. But in my head, I'm like, if I show up unshaved, I'm just telling my brain that I don't really care about the results and I'm not going to swim fast. So then you don't swim fast. What if you think that it could make you a better, what does shaving your body have to do? I don't understand that at all. So I think there's this, like this weird swim theory that it's like, it makes sense. Like you want to save everything for like that point in the season that matters the most. Cause like your world champs is the metal or like make the team right. I was like, your hair's going to grow back anyway. It doesn't change anything for me. It was more of a mental mentality thing. Like if I didn't shave, I felt like I wasn't taking it seriously. I love that. And other people were like, well, we're going to save it for that. I was like, well, you can do both. So it was a weird thing. I kind of actually get that though, because like in gymnastics, we have like a preseason and then we have obviously regular and post. And so I think a lot of times when we have like preseason, it's like, we're not competing yet, but we're doing like, in house means like mock meets is what we called it. And then also in regular season kind of same thing where it's like, yeah, it doesn't really matter. Cause you have a lot of opportunities to qualify to nationals and regionals, but what if you just continued to get better each time? But does your routine change for the in season versus like the main, like the big event, right? Same warmup, same routine. Why would you not treat it like a championship me? That's the thing. And that's everything we've ever preached. And the way we train is like ultra specificity. Like why do, why do shit that doesn't help you swim faster? Yeah. You know, your brain codes every movement. And that's, I think why gymnasts train so much and they do the same movements over and over and over is it's the more like, but it's it's like repetition is the father of learning. It's like the more you can do something, you code a movement like you much like you would a computer so that it comes in automatic output when it comes time to race. Yeah. And so I, you know, I do very short distances repeatedly. And if I do one slowly, we stop so that we can communicate and say, Hey brain, wipe that from the main, like mainframe. That's not helpful. Yeah. And then you go back into the set and keep going. So you're coding only specificity, only speed, right? Technique, right? Velocity, head position, all that. And you're tweaking throughout it. I could nerd out. Yeah. Yeah. So he's going to write a book at some rate. Be sure to buy it later when he's retired because Holy crap, you should write a book. Yeah. I think you have so many incredible philosophies and I mean, I, I want to know, like obviously with you growing up with your dad as your coach, like you took a lot of your stuff home with you. How was that? That was the hardest part. Really? And I think it got to, well it got to a point, um, well a little over a year and a half ago where, I needed to step away from the family dynamic because I think we realized some guard rails or boundaries needed to be set. So when you're younger, it was a lot easier for me to kind of not blindly follow but be told what to do and respected that. Like I loved it. I was like, you're my dad, you're my coach. I respect it. You know what you're doing. Let's go. Want a gold medal. Lots of world champ medals. Like it worked. Yeah. Over a hundred national records. Like, great. But as I got older, I think there's this level of autonomy in my life and career, but then a sense of ownership that I think I started to shift and I think I, everything was kind of taken care of for me as a kid, which is normal. You know, your parents want to provide into everything for you. But then as I got older, I was like, no, I want to, let me do this. You're craving independence. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was good. I think, you know, we went through stages, highs and lows, emotional stuff, whatever. Um, but it was amazing knowing one, nobody wants to succeed more than your parents do. Yeah. And I just had to find a way to balance that. And I think it's possible through like healthy communication, but it is really hard. Like I don't, Tokyo was really special because, so I have this Olympic flag signed in my house and I will get to the point. Um, my dad and I are the only family do on there. So he was named Olympic coach. So he got to go to the Olympics with me. Cause I had three individual events and obviously it was special because Tokyo was COVID games. So no spectators, my sister and my mom couldn't be in Tokyo. So it was like, you know, I'm like missing half my team, but I still have my dad, you know, that's cool, which is really special. Um, and I think the reason and the way it worked so well for us is we communicate really well, but we collaborate on a lot. And so a lot of my dad's philosophy and the way he kind of speaks about it, about it is even though he's like my head coach, still values my input as if i'm an equal it's not like he kind of lords this position over me as an athlete he knows my experience and also just who i am as an athlete i think some athletes probably need to be controlled a little bit yeah but for me i'm like i'm so in tune with my body i can tell them every rep what felt off where my hips are how my head's dipping yeah we watch videos same thing just very analytical and so it works and that collaboration is good but then where the challenges are is what do you do when you get out of the pool yeah can you be dad and son and go fish or play catch type of thing and i think we had a hard time of doing that i think everything was very swim focused for a very long time and after missing the paris team i just decided you know what let's let's be father son yeah like son mom like for a little while and kind of mend some of that family like bond let me go to a program and then you know a year went by and now i'm back with my dad which is awesome that's really cool so yeah i mean yeah sometimes you just need to take a step away and one like recognize what you have right and you know you're like okay yeah there were a few little things that we could maybe iron out but at the end of the day like there's nothing better than working with your dad and you guys clearly work no and it's super unique it's rare i don't think so rare yeah there's there's quite a few swim parents that are doing it but it is hard and it adds to the story you know we like you said like this would be a gnarly book one day yeah um but we got to win a few golds in la first yeah so and then and then we'll release it yes i'm here for it hopefully i'll be in the stands cheering you on 100 it'll be there that'll be so sick yeah on deck on deck yeah i'll be the one you'll be my interview that'll be a full circle moment wait that would be so sick nbc yeah hit me up honestly um that's that's so cool though because i have yeah i mean gymnastics too it's like i've seen it's rare but i've seen some people even not even be like coaches but like just their parents being extremely involved and it's always been really toxic so it's it's really healing to hear that you have such a positive experience with your dad and that you guys have found your flow yeah and for sure it works but i mean it it's no surprise that you have developed now this own personal philosophy where you want to kind of separate from him because you're a man and you want to feel strong in yourself and you want to feel like you're independent and like you want to feel like when you're out on the pool deck like you can handle shit and get it done regardless of who's in your corner yeah and yeah i don't blame you for that at all but also utilize your resources i mean he's in your corner no matter what and he's always going to have your back and in a world where especially when there's a lot of money involved and a lot of fame like you never know people's intentions true and so it's really nice that you never have to worry about his intentions yeah no drama no drama no no and it's nice we we think the same way we enjoy the same thing so it is it's it's really fun working with my dad and even now like we you know we've been just recently going through some meetings and i'm bringing in more athletes into my team because i i think part of to why things maybe were a little more difficult throughout my career was because i was the only athlete that he was taking care of oh no no no it was just me that's tough right yeah that's really hard and it was like i loved it in that i got all the attention yeah but what i realized and this is i think the biggest so my year away i went and swam at asu so i went i went and swam with the pro group there oh i remember you doing that yeah and the coach amazing dynamic awesome but the biggest lesson i learned and i think it's kind of one of those like you realize what you have the moment you lose it or what you had yeah and uh you know when a coach is trying to take care of something you're not going to be able to take care of it and you're going to be able to take care of it and you're not going to be able to take care of it athletes on deck that are all wanting to get good or waste their time whatever these college athletes are doing yeah so you got the men's and women's college team oh my god and then the pro group is like five of us you're like wait what about me yeah and the pros obviously you know the salary is not being paid by the pros it's being paid by the university yeah so there's a hierarchy yeah exactly in my whole career i was the priority exactly yeah and so you yeah it was i was very fortunate to learn that and still had a good year swam well it's a culture shock though made some amazing friends um so that was one thing i learned and then i also realized the importance of having teammates yeah but like select teammates you know because there's teammates that can help you and teammates that can drag you down or just like create a toxic environment yeah negative no or or lazy or undisciplined or want to go drink and do all these things that are not going to help me perform and i became really good friends with my well my now training partner mikhail schruder's and he swims for aruba cool and in this like process i was like hey dude i'm gonna go train with my dad in hawaii and he'd come down and camp with us and i was like but the only way i'm doing and this is a caveat i told my dad yeah i was like i know you want me to come to hawaii and train with you so newsflash i live in hawaii now uh paradise bummer but i'm only doing it if mikhail and his wife can come move with me and do this because i realize we we did this for over a decade yeah without teammates and i need someone that can push me i need someone that can hold me accountable yeah i need somebody that will push me to a level and then also that i can push him to a level like i believe that the both of us we're going to be in many olympic finals he's a really talented athlete we swim similar events so it's like this is like weird silver coin in missing an olympic team and hitting what was like my rock bottom yeah as an athlete to like okay now i know why it happened and i'm a firm believer everything happens for a reason same and now i'm building towards la with a teammate that i love and respect and working towards some pretty epic goals that's sick yeah i mean it's a fire under your ass you wanted and needed 100 and yeah i love that you you're being so intentional with who you are and who you're going to be and i think that's a really important thing to do and i think that's a really important thing to do and i think that's a really important thing to do who you surround yourself with and i'm i'm such a firm believer in that as well like i did not realize i think in your 20s like you're 26 yeah like i i've heard like 26 27 is like you lose a lot of friendships because you you know you grow yeah like they phase out and i'm like i'm mourning like a lot of friendships where it's just like oh i just like outgrew them or like we're just in different phases of life now you know like they're having kids and having family and their lives and priorities are different and it's like i'm out here trying to grow boss and i'm very different place you know so i think it's like it's cool that you're able to hand pick your environment yeah it's smart very fortunate i mean very smart yeah i feel like we're not all super lucky to do that and i think it's yeah you're forced into environments where you're like god damn dude like yeah but i think too what i've noticed in at least in my life and how i approach most things is all i'll try to open doors and create opportunity like naturally like i'll find ways to make something happen same with like very smart in that way thank you yeah i try but i think there has to be a healthy dose of like you know what if it's not meant to be it's not meant to be yeah so i try not to push too hard because then i've done that in my past where i forced something to happen or work and then you realize shit that was that was difficult to make happen because it wasn't meant for me yeah yeah but even with this it just kind of all flowed so smoothly into the next and i think there's a lot of um you know like looking for green flags and it all kind of sets up yeah the runway's been nice you're aligned yeah i think it's exactly what you've been craving right which is key and i i mean swimming is already such an individual sport so like just even having the camaraderie and the energy when you are having a bad day and have like a teammate be able to pick you up and encourage you and like know that the end of the day is similar to theirs and well and i think too like having joy outside of the sport yeah my thing is you know when i was in arizona that's all you had i didn't know what to do outside the pool yeah i'm not gonna play fortnight all day like you know and mikhail and i would go play pool at each other's apartments it was awesome but i'm like i can only do this so many hours of the day and not go crazy yeah you know and when i lived in california and now hawaii is like people see how much joy i have training and doing what i do because one i'm creating an atmosphere of like one it's just beautiful i'm shooting some fun content but i have life outside of the pool like i go surf i can go ride dirt bikes i can go spearfish i can dive hike whatever it is yeah all these things that recharge me and give me the you know i wake up in the morning go to practice i'm like hell yeah i'm ready to like obliterate my body yeah because i know i get to go surf later or whatever it's like a reward it is exactly yeah i love that and i mean you i can tell i think it's very clear to me maybe because i was an athlete who didn't have balance but like it's very obvious to me the athletes that do yeah and i am always so inspired especially when you can take it to such an extreme level but not have an extreme lifestyle right it's so rare it is rare it's so rare and it's really impressive that you've managed to curate a life that has that balance and joy and genuine fulfillment without the sport i appreciate that i do think there was there was a point in my career where i had too much fun really yeah and i was too focused on like the surfing and the okay fishing and whatnot yeah and you're like we're not going pro for surfing right oh my gosh i wish that would be the dream i have some surfboard companies that follow me and i'm like i'm gonna get some free boards but um i i do think i started to focus more on the fun things yeah and then the performance side takes a hit yeah so it's like you definitely play this like back and forth balance game i don't think it's ever perfect like it doesn't sit there for very long you kind of it's constantly teetering yeah and you gotta be careful yeah and even like in relationships like that's another thing too that i'm learning a lot about and folks i'm curious your take on it is like when you're trying to pursue something that takes up a lot of your time you know some relationships whether it's friendships or romantic they'll they'll fuel that drive and help it or it can take away from it yeah and i'm like a hundred percent in on everything type of guy same so it's like if i find a new hobby or a new creative outlet or we get hyper fixated person that i want to be around everything else goes out the window yeah so i'm like okay i gotta what are my goals and that's why it's like so important to be clear about what you're pursuing yeah so that you can then know okay does this help me get here is this a distraction is this something that's gonna aid where i'm going or is this like does it need to be honed in so yeah it's yeah it's a challenge yeah i mean for me i got some really good advice when i was at at ucla competing and my coach told us the decisions you make dictate the life you lead so every day is made up of millions and millions of choices and you can make you know the choice to wake up and be like oh fuck today's gonna suck or i can attack the day right and that's like one championship mindset already done yeah and you just kind of keep chipping away and using those little moments to then create a championship right mentality and it builds off of another it compounds yeah if you continue to start negative it feeds negative yes you start positive you start looking for the bad instead of looking for the good and then the next thing you know your day is shit and i've definitely slipped into that and so like that helps kind of drag me out of it because i'm a big like control your controllables kind of person so if i feel like i'm spiraling i'm like how do we control our controllables okay like what the fuck am i saying to myself am i saying mean things like am i being a bad person am i being a bad person am i being a myself up am i eating bad am i not walking am i not going outside like do we need to touch some grass odds are probably yeah you know so i mean with relationships i would say i'm kind of in it too with like i've i've experienced some really toxic situations and experienced some really really really supportive positive ones like my ex when i was competing at ucla my senior year i always say like some people are great for the season of life that you're in fair they may not be like the one yeah but he was a phenomenal person to have in my corner during that time of my life well not to say that i like used him to like no for sure have support but like i truly believe he he played a big role in like my level of success my senior year because i'd never felt more confident he did a great job he showed up with flowers every meet that's awesome he was showed up for me you know it's just like i think finding a partner when you are a competitive athlete who understands it gets it and supports you through it is like huge it is it's really special when i think to to understand the sacrifice that goes in that's i think sometimes not make you feel guilty for it right which is that's big yeah and i'm like the opposite of a selfish person and i think sometimes i should be more selfish you get like taken advantage of because you're not even taken but it's like i give it away fair you know like without a fight i'm like oh yeah i'll be there yeah i'll be there yeah i'll be there yeah i'll be there yeah for sure i don't i don't need to train at six in the morning like whatever your dad's like dude where you at yeah literally so it's uh yeah live and learn but yeah i yeah very fortunate i know that's like even looking back past relationship same thing it's like there's so many lessons to be learned and i do think whether you go through something that's net negative or net positive there's always a valuable lesson in it and at the end of the day we always look back in the season thinking oh yeah like i've come out of that life is good yeah as long as you got breath in your lungs and something you're working towards yeah you guys will be able to figure it out facts i love that that's so cool what's like a moment that you can look back on your career where you're like i really wish i did something different oh shoot because you are very analytical and i feel like you take everything into account yeah so i'm curious if you like look back on like old strategies or old training like what would have you have changed um what'd you have changed anything i have a million things running through my mind it's it's so crazy um there's some really deep emotional ones we can spare that maybe but um no let's go back to missing the like yeah missing the paris team by a tenth of a second and no way yeah wait i didn't know that yeah so it was a lot of things emotional just yeah it was a lot yeah it was a lot but um the in a nutshell i think i realized i had given a lot of power to a relationship dynamic in the family that i think needed to be a certain way versus stepping out of that and realizing i actually had a lot of power to feel another way so i think it's easy to when something isn't going the exact way that you want to become very emotionally tied to and this isn't that i was i should have turned things off but i think i should have been able to say okay you know what things aren't perfect here or ideal but i can control this i can control that and i think i i focused so much on what was happening externally that i couldn't control yeah and then you start to freak out and be like oh my gosh this is such a big deal it's like at the end of the day you're like oh my gosh this is such a big deal your energy and control but it's only stealing because i gave it yeah power to yeah and so i think that was a big one um so i remember just going into trials for paris the least confident i've been in my entire life no and i was just thinking you know and these are prayers i would tell myself i was like lord please give me a miracle like i want to make this team but i know i'm not capable and i swam through the meat i swam like shit i had a lot of support there and i had a lot of people that were really excited and really rooting for me sponsors my girlfriend at the time her family just an amazing team which i'm glad i had because i think had i not had that support coming out of it i would have been a wreck for a very long time you would have gone down a dark path yeah i think it just would have been hard to climb back out because i had like no idea where i go now because i think as an athlete you are taught and it's so easy to believe that your value and your worth comes from your last performance and i think that's what i'm trying to yeah which in the sporting world is true but it's so unhealthy and it's not real yeah that's the thing is like what what you live out with you know these big brands or you know it's fair like gold medals sell merchandise yeah and at the end of the day as much as they say your family like you're still selling a product and so when you miss an olympic team they don't really care if you're sad or have an emotion breakdown or stuff like maybe the people are but like at the end of the day it's not good for business yeah and i totally respect that like i get it so they pulled sponsors oh yeah no i lost everything which is michael which is amazing but it's but it was so amazing as i learned not to put my value in that because because i used to i was so and i mean i still i chase it because i want it like i'm excited to work with partners that are doing awesome things in the space but at the end of the day i realized like there's there's more to it than just like you know like i'm not going to do it it is a business thing and and now it just becomes part of my story yeah which is great you know when i'm back on the top yeah whether there's a high or low in between like that just builds to the story yeah you know we're building this story um and one day we'll get to tell it which is pretty cool but no like so yeah that was kind of my my low and i don't know if there was i honestly even talking about it like you had asked is there anything i would have changed i probably wouldn't yeah because i think had i changed that maybe i wouldn't have learned the valuable lessons i did as a person and an athlete yeah and you know now i have that as a resource to teach other kids through clinics or whatever i do on my platform because i didn't lose my platform like i'm still respected in the swimming world um but there's unfinished business which is exciting so i can get back on the horse and keep doing my thing and you know very fortunate to have you know some athletes go through that and they're like okay fuck it like i'm done i'm out yeah and i was not done or out so here we are yeah yeah but what i find so fascinating is like you one obviously utilizing your story and i'm so sorry you had to go through that like i can't even imagine no it's good i mean it's just a tough yeah it's a tough world i mean that's why that's why everyone wants to be an athlete yeah everyone wants the gold medal story but a lot of people have to deal with heartbreak that's normal that's what makes sport so amazing and i think that's why business people like working with athletes, they know how to face failure and get up again yeah they know how to push through a really tough season and know that you know it people will forget about it fair at the end of the day do you think that doing as well as you did in japan affected kind of the outcome of paris like did you have like a lot of pressure on your shoulders did you feel like it kind of set this like really unreasonable expectation for you like that's a good question um because it's always tough coming off of a high like people always say like in gymnastics anyways like your first perfect 10 it's a lot harder to get your second yeah because like now there's an expectation it's really funny because i think a lot of people thought i came back from tokyo on a high and they thought i was super stoked but i was actually depressed for like 13 weeks i oh my god i stepped away from the pool i didn't swim for 13 weeks i went out with friends and we partied but it wasn't i wasn't celebrating anything no i was actually devastated i thought it was like it was i probably had outside of coming home with a gold medal it sounds ridiculous i know no but i actually kind of get it but here's the thing is so if you look at so i had three individual races okay i had the 50 freestyle 100 breaststroke and the 200 im all three of those races i was ranked top three in the world going into it okay i was the fastest american by a long shot in 100 breast and the 200 im my 50 free i was second just behind caleb and so going into the olympics there was this very clear okay michael's the guy yeah he's gonna win three medals maybe gold and i ended up coming fourth and two of them and fifth and one so i guess why i'm well but i did not swim nearly lights out like i did at trials not the standard that you had my yeah and there was a lot of other things i was dealing with like i was being kind of villainized for my decisions and i was like decisions around certain, uh, free will, um, at the time. So I became a target of what we were going through at the time with COVID. Yeah. And then it, so it became less about swimming and just being an athlete. Now I was like this political figurehead. And so I was getting death threats and crazy shit during the games. And, you know, it kind of ties back to your last question. It's like something I would have done differently is blacked out all media. Yeah. But I decided, you know, Oh, I've made the team here. I am. I'm going to still be on Instagram and stuff. Don't do it. I would just give my phone to someone else. Honestly, I really should have at trials. I was completely blacked out. It was amazing. All I had to focus on was swimming at the Olympics. It was different. Cause now I have all these other things swirling in my head. Um, but to go back, it's like, I came home from Tokyo thinking I had failed even. Even though I had a gold medal and a world record in the relay, because my expectation on me, the expectation set from my dad and the team and USA swimming and the media and all these things were so much higher than what I achieved. So I came back and told myself that I was a failure. Oh my God. And it took me two years to realize that that's bullshit and that I can actually celebrate it and still be upset with the results and want more. Yeah. Still be hungry. Yeah. And so that's when I decided, okay, I'm gonna go get my tattoo because I had put it off. Cause I was kind of told, well, don't get your tattoo until you're a gold medalist. Cause I was like, well, then you, that's when you've earned it. And I was like, that's so unhealthy. And it took me a little while to realize that. So I was like, okay, I've grown through that now. And I'm, I'm able to be proud of what I did through the circumstances, but still hungry. So it was just like a right there and just off type of thing. And yeah, it's, it's unique. It's actually, I love like being able to sit down and talk about this. Cause I, I don't think I go back and process it enough. Yeah. Cause I lived through it and I was like, okay, I'm done with that. You probably blacked it out. Yeah. Naturally. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. I think so for sure. Um, so wait, you got your tattoo. Where'd you get it? You know, my ribs. Okay. Flex on them period. So you painful as I thought it would be. Really? Yeah. I have a, it's funny. I, sorry to my buddy, Bobby. Um, so Bobby Fink, I texted him cause there's nothing unique about the Olympic rings, at least in the Olympic space. Like we all have them. Like they're the same. They're just a bunch of circles. So I was just trying to figure out, okay, like where should I put it? And I didn't want it to be something that's visible everywhere I go. Cause I was like, I don't want that attention all the time unless my shirt's off. It's like, okay, whatever. And it keeps me fit. Like I can't, I can't gain weight. No, literally just like a bunch of ovals. Um, but I, I reached out to my buddy Bobby and I was like, Hey dude, how, how bad did that hurt? Like, cause I was always told like, yeah, I heard ribs really hurt. There's no fat or like really a lot of muscle. And he goes like, dude, I was sweating. I had to take a break. It was like awful, the worst pain. And I think because at the time, so I was dating a girl out of LA and she was rad and she had a bunch of tattoos. And so she came with me. She helped me find the tattoo artist. She was your emotional support. Yeah. And so I'm here sitting on the table and I'm like, I can't bitch out on this. You can't look like a pussy. My girlfriend's here. I like, I just got to take this like a champ. And so I got through it pretty fine. And I remember after I have photos of it, just, I was so stoked. Um, but yeah, it was pretty cool. So it's like, yeah, I want to get more, but that's still so insane to me though, that they literally told you you couldn't get until you got a gold medal. Are we okay? Well, there's, there's more to it. Um, a lot of it, too, is like my mom is very traditional, which is awesome. I love it. Um, but she was very adamant that my brain doesn't fully develop until I'm 25, which is probably true. It is actually true. Yeah. The men's prefrontal, is it frontal lobe, frontal cortex, frontal lobe, frontal lobe doesn't develop until 25 women sooner. So you guys are way smarter than we are. And, um, and so she was like, well, I'm not going to get it until you like have fully developed. I'm like, I'm an Olympian. You're still going to get it. Nothing's going to change. Yeah. It's not like they're going to take that away from you. So I got it at 24, uh, for my birthday. And I was like, this is my reward to myself. Sorry, mom. I'm just going to do it. You got to live with it. That was your little rebellious moment. Yeah. I mean, I don't think I, I don't think I'd ever actually made that deal with her, but she was trying to be like, no, you committed to that. And I'm like, I never committed to that. So here we are. I mean, that's fair. My parents are very traditional as well. And they are not tattoo people. So now they don't even notice it. Really? No, it's just part of me. Yeah. Yeah. Just wait until I fill my leg. Then there'll be tweaking out midlife crisis. Why are you wearing leggings in the pool? No reason. Just wearing a wetsuit. Don't worry about it. Do you have any tattoos? No, none. Would you, or no, no reason to, I just like, I'm like, do I have commitment? But like, I just, I don't really know how I could possibly commit. Like I get nervous about putting stickers on my water bottle. Fair. I'm the same way. I'm like, it's so clean. Why would I change it? Yeah, exactly. It's I mean, no hate on tattoos, but I'm just like, well, that's why I think even with this, yeah, technically in my mind, this doesn't count as like my first tattoo. I wouldn't count it. No. So like when I get, I want, I want to, I'm not actually joking. I want to fill my leg and I go so back and forth. It's like, I don't know what to get and I want it to tell a good story. I also want it to look cool. That part. So it's like, I don't know. I feel like getting something that's not like a stamp like this is going to be a little harder to commit to and be like, Oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you know any cool tattoo artists, you guys DM me or tell me. Yeah. Leave in the comments. That part. I have a lot of friends actually that are like really like my friend, one of my girlfriends is, is doing her whole leg right now. And like she has her whole back and her sleeve and like, it's, it's beautiful. It's like all very gorgeous, like artwork style. Like I just, I find it so fascinating that like, I really admire it to just have like your body be a canvas. I'm just like, I just didn't grow up around it. So it's just, it's so foreign to me. Like I will never even like dye my hair. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Like I get anxious about it. It took me forever to even get my ears pierced. I didn't get them until I was like a junior in college. So I don't know. I mean, I don't know when I'm the weirdo. I don't know when women normally pierce ears. Like people get their ears pierced when they're babies. Really? Yes. Oh my goodness. Or like, I don't know, 12 or like 13 is like, you go to Claire's, you get your ears pierced, whatever. But yeah, no, I just, I've always been very conservative with that stuff. It just makes me nervous. Yeah. That's so wild. So funny. But I mean, with swimming, I feel like that is kind of a conservative sport. Everyone's kind of more timid. I feel like it's kind of, like, how is that? Cause you're not like this. You're like, you're not like that at all. No, you're not shy. No, not at all. But that's what's fun. It's like I walk in pool deck and I can know everyone. Cause I'll talk to everyone. Yeah. Um, so it's fun, but I do think, I don't know, that's our issue in swimming right now. And I think that's why swimming is not as watched because we don't have a lot of like characters, you know, whether it's a villain or the good guy or personalities, the questionable or, you know, and there's, we're starting to just a few, but it's hard because like, I don't know, there's not a lot of media outside of the Olympics because we don't, we don't have a swim league. we used to that went belly up really yeah it was it was an interesting we were involved in it my family owned one of the pro teams on it okay um and it was awesome it was being funded by a ukrainian oligarch but once the ukraine russia war started you know everything kind of fizzled out and disappeared athletes weren't getting paid and we weren't able to get like proper funding well it's just hard to get broadcasting and like people to get behind it and build viewership so that sponsor dollars could come in so it's like i'm at a spot now where it's like i would love to see swimming have something like a drive to survive where athletes personalities and their interests outside of swim but also their you know dedication and elite level mindset can be shared yeah because then people can get behind it that's right now no one knows who to root for how to there's no investment there's no emotional investment person yeah so and that's why i like swimming is an interesting one where um it's like as a brand and as an athlete i hate to say it but like my value is more like i can create more value outside of the sport because it's so small yeah and you know like i want to work with companies that don't see me as a swimmer which is so hard because i am a swimmer yeah that's my platform and that's your brand but i'm building an audience outside of swimming because i realize you know when everybody swims it's a heartbeat sport but no one does it at the competitive level it's hard to understand like a basketball because you got a league and the football you got nfl yeah golf you've got pga the olympics is the token yeah you know for us the olympics is all we have yeah that's crazy that's your 12 minutes every four years and if you don't hit it you get forgotten about that makes actually so much sense because i always wondered why there was always so much pressure on the swimmers yeah to perform the olympics and i was like oh my god i don't even know how to swim i don't even know how to swim i don't even know how to swim i don't even know how to swim i don't even know how to swim i don't even know how to swim so there's so much swimming so there's a lot of emphasis on it and we have a ton of events yeah which a lot of medals a lot of money but that makes sense i yeah i mean it makes a lot of sense too though because i remember hearing alona mar talk about yeah on her podcast she said the best way to get more viewers on a sport is to have more characters yeah and she was like i'm not the best rugby player in the world but people think that i am because they know her i'm the brand of rugby now like i've worked on my socials enough and built out my brand enough to be kind of the face of rugby and she's like i'm happy to carry that but also the way that the sport's going to grow is just continuing to have so many more people hopping on the content train and it's huge it just sucks because it's like content is a full-time job i mean as someone who is a full-time content creator that's crazy like i can't even imagine having to train at the top i'm still sitting on two vlogs that i need to edit yeah it's like also it's probably not gonna happen for any editors that want to help him out i'm just here to source yes blink twice if you need help oh my goodness oh my god you can't have mine because he's already spread thin enough take it no but it is it's awesome i think that is the beauty in it is i don't know if it was easy everyone would be doing it that part you know so true so i i don't i don't poo-poo the like the difficulty behind it and it is hard like i did a podcast the other day and i spoke about this and it's like you know what swimmers we it's easy to complain about the lack of funding from our ngb which like our national governing body but the problem is swimmers are wanting to get paid i don't know how much they're wanting to get paid but it's like you can't expect to get paid a certain level if you're just going to sit back and twiddle your thumbs and focus on swimming like yeah you have to build yeah you're following like you're gonna have no one cares about that stuff no exactly post some tiktoks post some instagram reels do a live like stream yeah live stream if you want like try it all find something that clicks and i mean i wasn't always this comfortable talking or in front of cameras but i practice and i put yourself out there myself enough times to be like you know what no one really actually cares like so yeah it's it's uh it's really up to the athletes and up to you anyone who's listening to like create that value for yourself which is also what you're doing so well and that's what i love thank you like following from a distance for a while yeah before becoming friends and doing this is like it's it's cool to see and you know i try to emulate that through what i see others like yourself doing and it's just like we continue to kind of grow and then eventually you guys are all at that peak yeah working with red bull or doing something epic so it's like literally i i love that and we were just talking about too like how there are very few high level athletes who are also doing content who are also very strong personalities i mean like i talk about this with molly all the time molly carlson it's just like it's definitely uh it's a trifecta and balancing all of it while having balance is tough so i give you your flowers because i i'm like i've got a lot to figure out but but you're trying getting better and i always say like you can never fail if you're trying true truly yeah and i think you're going to continue to inspire so many swimmers to see life beyond their sport and i think that is going to be the most powerful impact i appreciate that because they're going to be the ones like truly trailblazing yeah because they're going to learn from you and then they're going to be like oh i can build a business too yeah they're the next generation yeah and then i don't have to rely on swimming to pay my bills like that's insane i mean like that i think would be the biggest goal and motivator for me is like not relying on what i'm doing and not relying on what i'm doing and not relying on what i'm doing and one thing to pay my you know bills every imagine how much pressure you take off of having to perform that's what i'm saying yeah like you don't have to worry about people pulling your sponsorships if you don't make the the team because it's like well i make money from my videos now i make money from my other sponsors and brand deals and like i'm on commercials and whatever it's like you're good yeah and then i think you'll also perform better for sure because there's no pressure no exactly how are you gonna prepare for this olympics versus how you've prepped now for the last two oh that's a good question because you're back in it with dad back in it with dad i think it kind of i kind of go back to what i did going into tokyo tokyo was the most prepared i ever was now i'm not training the same way because i think my capacity was so much higher because i was younger my body could handle more and i could recover quickly yeah literally i was like give it to me i'll go now i'm like oh let me stretch first i just yeah so i i think we approach it very technically very um intentionally towards like okay what do i need to do to be at top speed and then protect the body because as you get older it's all about mobility and strength and i do think so in the sprinting world in swimming things have changed quite a lot and my dad and i have pioneered a lot of that movement and there's a few other athletes now that have really shifted it to in becoming ultra ultra specific okay so less volume you know in the 60s the original swim methodology was grind the yardage crazy drills just pound the body and if you survived it you're a champion but now it's like okay you can target one or two races you can swim much less volume yeah be really short high power work you know you can do stuff in the gym more like translate short bursts you don't have to be in the water for hours that's nice you know recovery becomes more of an emphasis so i think those type of things play a huge role and we're doing some hybrid very hybrid yeah okay cool yeah and ultra short race pace training is like the terminology that we kind of like pioneered and pushed into the swimming world cool we've modified it a little bit throughout my career and just my own personal findings and then i think too just running off of that it's like having the balance of life outside the pool yeah which is i think really being able to serve um have healthy relationships good community um but being extremely dedicated knowing okay i've got let me less than two years now that is so crazy to give absolutely everything i've got for a one week well i guess my selection process is a little weird now with some addition to the events yeah when will you know if you're like selected for the team so it'll be summer of so june like a few months before the games or like a month or two before the games we have olympic trials what why did i think that it was like you knew for a while most sports it is right in some other countries it's really early it's almost like a year before yeah i mean surfing was like a year and a half surfing was actually one of the earliest um because then you can prep yeah but even some sports select differently too there's okay like multiple events with swimming it's one event so it's like a year and a half before the games we have olympic trials what why did i think that it was like a year and a half before the games we have olympic trials what why did i think the one thing that does change now is so they brought 50s of stroke into the olympics for the first time so we've never had 50 butterfly 50 backstroke and 50 breaststroke in the olympics so now we have all four fifties uh which is amazing for me because i am i'm the fastest in all four fifties added up aggregate in history and so it's one of those things that i'm like okay i just gained three potential events yeah and so i can shift my focus to being more power and like sprint focused, but with those addition there's not an addition of roster size so they're not allowing more athletes to compete in the olympics which is really tough so you've got three new races but you're gonna fill it with the same amount of athletes and so that's why there's no specific cut there's another competition that i have to go to in 2027 okay and i have to place top six in the world to guarantee a spot but even if i win that it doesn't mean i make the u.s team oh my god because i have to win it at u.s trials in 2028 so i essentially have to win it in 2027 just to guarantee that i have a place with world aquatics like the yeah the governing body but then to to qualify who the hell makes these usa it's so it's crazy they need to hop in the pool and they need to do it and what's weird is they shipped and they shipped it so like where now the 50 fly you could potentially be filled so that what they do is this is really confusing for the viewers if you've never known anything about swimming i don't know anything about swimming but i'm still sat so they'll create a priority order okay and so priority is like priority one would be first place in 100 free 200 free any original olympic event okay and and then second priority is second place third priority is going to be i think it would be like maybe a spot and then fourth priority would be 50 winner okay but that's if the roster hasn't already been filled which determine is determined by how many guys swim multiple events because it's only allowed to have like 25 guys on the team or something or 50 or whatever i don't know how it that's unbelievable yeah so there was there was a world champs where i won the 50 fly okay and nbc was like congratulations you made the team did the interview everything come to the end of the meet i wasn't selected to be on the team because the roster was already filled so i was like okay i'm filled what and their priority selection put the 50 fly at fifth priority so they're like sucks to suck you won the event but you're not going and i would have i could have won three medals at that world champs oh my god and it's just because usa swimming prioritized specific events over 50s of stroke because they don't think 50s of stroke are a legit event but now they're olympic races it's a whole it's there's so much drama like i'm sure you deal with gymnastics as well like i couldn't imagine at least we're not being judged and scored like your toes weren't pointed while you're you're kicking that's one thing i'm fortunate about it's you know if i touch the wall first i am the winner like there's nothing just make sure your sports bra doesn't show yeah literally oh my goodness and don't pick your wedgie what was the movie stick it i love that movie is so good me and my friend just reenacted it because she did bmx so we literally reenacted a scene it was so funny yeah oh my god it's literally doing so well on my tiktok right now because that's awesome that's such a classic such a classic forever that is so funny i have a question how do you like literally how the hell do you not get neurotic going into a new olympics because i feel like i would be really paranoid like every decision is gonna dictate you know how i do and like how do you like still manage to like let loose and go out with your friends and allow for balance while having this like kind of large overarching goal um i i feel like it's never been hard for me just because i i don't place all my value in swimming okay which is nice i think maybe sometimes i wish i cared a little more i think you're doing okay no like i care a lot yeah yeah that's not what i'm saying i'm not saying i don't care i care a lot but i just casually one of the best in the world but i think you're okay but i get you i get yeah it's just it's one of those things where i think at the end of the day i have a lot of freedom to go have fun and and i i do i think people question like okay like are you going to be surfing big swell when it comes close or are you going to go snowboard a season before yeah so there's risk you know we weren't allowed to snowboard yeah while we were in season or really ever while we were competing and i've never had anything in my contracts which is nice nice and i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know i don't know and but i do i'm obviously very careful like i know my limits like i'm an athlete you know your body yeah and i'm fortunate i do think you know most swimmers it's changing now but i think for the most part swimmers aren't known as being the most athletic athletes they're kind of like stuck to the pool like that's all you can do yeah but i'm very much an athlete first swimmer second cool and so like when i was little in kansas like i learned how to fall off of dirt bikes and like i rode dirt bikes like we i jumped on trampolines and i was like oh my god i'm gonna i was flipping all the time we gotta get in the gym i know how to do these things like i i'm very in tune to my body yeah that like i'm not gonna go bomb a double black diamond thinking i can be like sean white i'm like which i know it's actually better because like you are familiar with the sports and the activities enough to know really where the limit is right because i think a lot of times like the problem that people run into is they'd never done it before and then they just send it thinking that they'll be good at it because they're phenomenal at this one other sport it's like babe that does not translate well and i got good friends that are good at those things and they'll be like hey let's they'll guide let's go off this one not that one yeah which is good you know so it keeps me honest yeah um but yeah no i i think the balance and not becoming neurotic is that i can be super neurotic in the moment in the training but then allow myself to kind of release and go surf or do something that gives my brain the ability to keep functioning and to like turn off yeah i have to you compartmentalize yeah because otherwise you're gonna burn out no or you're gonna resent your sport when you or you get there and say you miss it yeah or or you hit it and you're just like i was so stressed i couldn't actually enjoy the process yeah yeah like i want my whole career to be fun and it has been like even with the lows it's like i love i have the greatest job ever and it's not like i'm making millions of dollars i'm making millions of dollars like i'm not just floating in it but i love what i do i haven't technically worked a day in my life i love that i always say that too i'm like i will never work a day in my life yeah i'm just gonna keep doing what i love right like i get paid to take really good care of my body and have an eight pack how epic is that like why not so i'm not gonna do anything to jeopardize it that's so funny is there ever a time like was there ever a time in your career where you did burn out um never from the training okay or the racing because it was all the outside yeah yeah i think the only things that really ever caused burnout for me was like emotional stress and an emotional stress came from family or relationships and it wasn't always like a bad thing but it was just enough to take my focus away from swimming that i just became so frustrated yeah because i think instead of swimming becoming an outlet it kind of became more of a like a shoot like like a bird that area of my life feels shitty yeah i need to now overcompensate over here and it was like wasn't a very healthy balance versus you know life is good and i show up to the pool excited to work because i'm healthy and i'm excited to push my body to this limit because i need to know that everything's cool like i can step out and have this balance so yeah that's kind of like the weird back and forth that i play i love that i really think you're going to inspire so many people though because i think a lot of times especially with swimming i've seen just this extreme level of focus yeah and so we've been told taught by michael phelps yeah and it's amazing and it works but you know he's he'd be the first person to say you know he stepped away from the sport and hated himself hated swimming you know it was really unhealthy he had a really unhealthy relationship with training and it created the most incredible athlete in history yeah and he's very fortunate to have come out of it on the other side with a beautiful wife beautiful kids like a healthy family and understanding through a lot of work that he had to undo you know and i don't know michael personally you know i've spoken to him a handful of times but it's awesome to see him now on the other side of the world and i think a lot of what he speaks about isn't just like the grind and he's not encouraging it no yeah it's like like hey there's more to it yeah like real life is outside the pool you know and obviously there's time and a place for grinding locking in kind of being selfish and all that um but you got to learn to balance the two yeah and i i think knowing that there is an alternative route is huge yeah i mean even with you pioneering this completely different training yeah it's gonna open a lot of athletes eyes i think in a lot of sports to be like this doesn't just have to be this way there could be so many other routes that we could take in order to be successful and i think a lot of times too like the more self-aware you are the more you know about how your body mechanics are like i knew thank god i was extremely in tune with my body as well in college and i ended up having to have a meeting with my weights coach and be like hey i can't lift heavy like the other girls yeah not because i can't physically do it I can lift really heavy, but I shouldn't because I really struggle with flexibility and mobility. And all it's doing is combating all the work I'm doing. Right, just fighting it. Yeah, and it's making my tumbling smaller because my hips are closed and I'm not getting any power and extension. And so like knowing those mechanics about myself and then having the ability to be independent and be like, hey, I really feel passionately about this. They were like, oh, we respect it. And so then during the heavy lifts, like the actual Olympic lifting session of our training, I would stretch. And I'm like, and my teammates understood. They were like, we got it. And I told them, I was like, if I can come in and test at the level that you want me to test at without doing any weights training, will you let me do this? And they were like, yep. And I lifted heavier than anyone. That's so cool. What a blessing, too, that you had that and a team that was like, okay, we're not going to push that. Because they recognize like everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. And if we continue to lean into the strength, it's like we're going to be one-sided. Right. It's not going to, you're not going to be a hybrid. You're not going to have balance. But I think it's also up to the athlete, which is you being like, hey, like you said, very in tune to what you do. And a lot of athletes aren't. That's what kind of separates the good from the great or someone that can really excel in the sport is someone that has stepped back and really hyper-analyzed and been in tune with it. But that's also a gift. That's something that's kind of naturally there. You got to work hard at it, though. I will say, like, you got to be very, very hyper-aware of really, truly what you need as an individual. Because like it is easy when you're on a team to get lumped into what everyone's doing. Oh, for sure. And then you look around and you're like, why am I not excelling but this person is? Yeah. You can't tailor a training to every single individual. So you as the individual kind of have to, you know, figure it out. Yeah. Which is where I think I was really fortunate growing up being the only guy in the pool. Because it was always just me. Your eyes always on me. It's like we were constantly tweaking. Yeah. And I think. And tailoring. And had I been in a program growing up, I probably wouldn't have had the same. Well, maybe I would have, but to a different level. Yeah. It wouldn't have been as in tune. He gave you the edge. Yeah. For sure. Because you had that attention. Yeah. You're an attention whore. Yeah, I am. You're a princess. I am. He goes to ASU for one year and he's like, where's my attention? I'm out of here. Okay. Well, we need to shift to a segment I do. We're here on the show called Dear Athlete. Okay. And it's like a fun little kind of fast paced advice column for athletes listening that just want to get our wisdom. Heck yeah. So first question for athletes who feel stuck or plateaued, what's something that you would tell them to change immediately? Hmm. I don't think I would encourage anyone to change something physically immediately. I think for me, what I do when I am in a plateau. So I kind of go back to why I do something in the first place. So a lot of it is more a mental thing. I love that. So I remind myself, why am I doing it? Your why. And I think a lot of plateau happens when people lose sight of a goal or a vision or a purpose. And so if you can do some journaling, it's as simple as writing down like, what do I love about swimming? How does it draw me closer to other people? What are my goals? Or whatever it is. How do I want to leave the sport? Yeah. What sort of effect do I want to leave behind? Um, but I think that's helped me because I recognize when I first started swimming, the reason I loved it was because it felt like a superpower. I was like, this is something I can do that other people can't experience at my level. I can relate to that. Yeah. And so I was like, when you start chasing accolades and records and all these things pile up on top of it, you start to forget about why you started in the first place and why you loved what you did. So you lose the joy. You lose the joy of your sport. Yeah. And so I think if you can kind of go back and have a fresh set of eyes, long answer short, know your why. I love it. Yeah. I could not agree more. I think for me, the second there's, I mean, we both have talked about like hating feeling stagnant and always chasing growth, but yeah, I think just finding your why, reminding yourself of, of some things. Yeah. That you lost sight of, but also maybe stepping away for a second. Yeah. Like, I mean, I know a lot of athletes who have had some pretty devastating feelings towards their sport where they just, they lost the love for it and they had to step away and they came back and they were better. Right. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. No. And I, I thankfully never had a point in my career where I hated the sport, but I had a lot of teammates that did. And I really am curious, like if. If that would have helped them. Right. To cure the burnout. Yeah, exactly. And it gives you a space to, same thing is like stepping away gives you that opportunity to again, kind of realize. Yeah. What was it in the first place to me? Like, why did I do it? Well, and like, you could be resenting practice, you know, for a year and then you, you know, you quit or retire for six weeks and you're like, oh my God, I miss it. You don't know what you have until it's gone. And I think that is a really good wake up call to kind of reset the gratitude scale and. Yeah. And put yourself in a place where you're like, oh my God, I miss it. Put yourself back in the present moment. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Okay. Second one is what's a mistake that you see the younger generation of athletes making over and over again that's holding them back? Ooh. I have one. Yeah. I'm curious. Yeah. Yeah. Go for us. I'm curious for your take. I think social media is going to be the downfall of sports. For sure. But I think it'll also, I think there's basically. What I think is going to happen is there's going to be a massive gap between the ones who gave up really soon because they wanted the instant gratification of winning or being really good, really fast and not knowing how to put the work in and then the ones who are just freaks because they grew up obsessing over these incredible athletes who basically opened the door for opportunity for them to be like, that's what's possible because I didn't grow up in gymnastics. I didn't grow up in gymnastics with like really YouTube. And I've seen now like athletes who have been able to watch Simone Biles over and over and over and over again. Yeah. And they see what's out there and what potential there is. Interesting. And so it inspires them to be more sendy, to be more brave, to do more. But then I also think with the other side of it being kind of negative is just like assuming that when you see all these highlight reels. Yeah. That that's all there. That's all there is to it. And not seeing how much work goes into it. It's fascinating. That's why I started filming training vlogs. Yeah. Because I wanted to help younger athletes understand it's not just one clip. There's millions that go into it every day and there's tons of mistakes. Yeah. And also reprogramming their brains to laugh at their mistakes or smile at messing up and not be so hard on themselves. Yeah. I think that's super valuable. I like that. I think mine's kind of along the side. I think mine's kind of along the line where it's like, I don't think I early on was as focused on the importance of compound effect and the compound effect being little things over time. Yeah. You know, it's easy to think, okay, you know, it's like the same additives like Rome wasn't built in a day. Yeah. You can't just become an Olympic champion. It does happen over time. Um, and that starts with, I think most people, they're part of the issue is they create one goal. Their goal is I want to be an Olympic champion, but then you can ask them, well, how the hell are you going to get there? Yeah. And so what I was taught by mentors and friends is you have your, your big goal and you've got like your mini clouds on the way, but these mini clouds are essentially a ladder towards your big one. Yeah. And so what are like, you can set a goal for a practice. What's my goal to achieve this practice? What's my goal this week? What's my goal? The season. What's my goal for this race, this race, this race. Obviously you don't have to go overboard, but figure out, you know, what sort of things can you do along the way that are a stair step towards where you're headed that way. You know, whether you get there or not, you're still excelling and achieving and moving upwards versus chipping away. Yeah. If you have nothing in between, you're going to get to the end of your career and feel like, shoot, I didn't accomplish anything, which is so untrue about every athlete that's ever stepped. You're going to step away from the sport. Yeah. Except in their mind, they believe they've not achieved anything because that's what they tell themselves based on how they created goals. Yeah. And how they frame what success looks like. Right. And I mean, another really good one is also, I think, putting all your value in shit you can't control. Like gymnastics is all about shit you can't control. You can't control who you're competing against. You can't control what score you get, what the judges think. Dang. Because some judges may love flexibility and you're not flexible at all, but then some judges may love power. That's crazy to me. You can't control that. That would drive me crazy as an athlete. It's all biased. How do you, I mean, I guess this is kind of going off the tangent, but how do you combat that? Like, how do you mentally cope with, okay, like a judge could miss, like score me incorrectly. Is that possible? Like how do you, yeah. All the time. Yeah. I mean, it's completely subjective. They're human beings. Right. They could blink. They could have something in their eye. They could miss, you know, some people think you went out of bounds and you didn't or a like, like, I mean, and we don't have instant replay. Yeah. Crazy. I think recognizing that they're human, giving them grace and like, I don't know, kind of like tying back to what we said in the beginning. It's like, if it's not meant for me, it's not mine. And I think I got a perfect 10 at the exact time that I needed to get a perfect 10 and I wouldn't have in any other way. I don't think it wouldn't have, I don't think it would have been as sweet if I had gotten like three before that. You know what I mean? Interesting. I just, I don't know. It's kind of a weird take, but I don't regret having only one. Yeah. And also I, I still look back on my career though and think I've done, I think I did at least three or four perfect routines. Really? Wow. So I know that about myself. Yeah. I can take that to the grave and be proud of myself for all the hard work that I did. And I feel like I competed at the standard that I had held myself at. Um, was it at the standard that the judges had set that one specific day? Maybe not, but at the end of the day, I'm not going to cry myself to sleep over it. No, of course. But that's also what makes your sport unique. Yeah. You know, we're just so wild. I mean, we sign up for it. So wild to me. Dang, you guys are incredible. I'm like, I'll take a judge telling me, uh, you know, I'm not perfect over a judge telling me I'm fat any day. So. Yeah. Fair. Or a person on the internet calling you fat any day. It's just like, pick your poison, you know, like you're going to be judged regardless. Yeah. True. True. It's like where you give the weight. So, okay. Third and last one. What's the best piece of advice you ever received? Oh, I, so I get asked this a lot and it's, it's weird. Maybe I want to change it. No, but not, not in a bad way. No, it's a good, it's a really good question. It's like, oh, is it basic? No, but I just feel like I don't have, it's hard cause I don't have like a profound answer. I'm trying to think. That's kind of fair. I feel like. Um, the advice I go back to a lot is from a mentor of mine. Um, he was a bit of a spiritual mentor, very wise, very smart, writes books, speaks multiple languages. It's like crazy. This guy's nuts. Wow. And what he taught me and our group, we were in a Bible study together was it's kind of a question you ask yourself. And a lot of it ties to my, like how I deal with pressure. And like having a purpose-based identity over a performance-based identity, which I believe kind of rings true through my career, um, is who would have never guessed after, after every race or trial or whatever to ask yourself, it's kind of like your debrief. Yeah. How has this brought me joy? So how has this race brought me joy or how has this opportunity, this event brought me joy? How has it drawn me closer to others? And how has it drawn me closer to God? I love that. And what's interesting in those three things is there's the personal component, the selfish. Okay. I love this. Like this brought me joy because I I'm doing what I love or what I was gifted to or standing in my calling, whatever the others, I was there with my teammates or I got to experience someone else when, or your community, they celebrated with me after when type of thing. And then God is like, I, I believe that my gift is, I believe God gave me a gift to swim. I think we all have gifts. It's up to us to discover those gifts. And I think, you know, swimming as much as it's something that serves me, it's also an outlet to exemplify, Hey, God gave me this ability. So I'm swimming for hip. Yeah. And that's, I think what takes a lot of the pressure off of winning, losing is like knowing, okay, you know what? At the end of the race, I can look up and say, Hey. Okay. I gave everything. The result was predetermined whether I like it or not, whether I'm eighth or last, I'm loved by my friends, my community. And I know that God doesn't care about swimming. So we're good. I love that. That's so beautiful. So that's my, that's my takeaway. I'm going to start doing that with everything I do. Honestly. And it's so applicable to life in general. And it's, it's very similar to writing down like gratitude, like gratitude journaling, like five things I'm grateful for. Cause it changes the way you think and approach something to be very like positive. You know, you're not going to, you're not going to be, you're not going to be, you're not going to be like, Oh, this didn't draw me closer to God. Cause it does. It always, always does. And it's something that also like, there's so much light in it, which I love. And you're just, you're constantly shifting your perspective to look for the good. Yeah. And I wish more people did that. For sure. Especially in sport. It's important. Especially when you're performance focused. Yeah. It's like always so negative. Hard to get away from. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for coming. That was amazing. Well, I am so hyped. I'm excited to see what you do. Thank you. You have such a bright and beautiful future ahead. Likewise. I am just, I'm over the moon that we got to do this and you're very wise beyond your years. So. Thank you. I try. Be sure to follow him on everything. He's doing some really cool stuff. You're vlogging on YouTube. I'm trying. I'm doing it all. Okay, vlog. Many hats. Many hats. So. Be sure to go support him. He deserves his flowers and catch him in LA. Appreciate it. In 2028. We'll see you guys in the sports swap next. See you in the sports swap. Yes, you guys. Comment for the sports swap. We're doing the sports swap ASAP. I'm going out to Oahu. Yeah. Honestly, guys, comment so we can pay for my trip to Oahu. Yeah. Let's get some brands to pay for it. That far. We know you're watching. Why don't we just like fricking magazine poster childs today? Anything. I'm so here for it. We'll do it. Rolex? Come on. Let's put your fire out there. All right, you guys. I love you so much. Thank you for tuning in and I will see you next Wednesday. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.