Gracie & Her Dad on Sports Medicine, Preventing Injury, & Doing Surgery on His Daughter

- How was doing my surgery? - One time I had an orthopedic surgeon, he wanted me to redo it, but he goes, "I want to stay awake and watch." And they miked me up, and then they got all the cameras, watching the surgery, and it was all getting piped back to a hotel where there's 250 people able to ask questions during the surgery. - He basically did a surgery on stage. - He spent his career helping people get back to doing what they love. He's a UCLA med school grad, Olympic physician, chief medical officer for the World Surf League, and the go-to orthopedic surgeon for some of the biggest names in athletics. I can tell you from firsthand experience, there's a reason so many athletes trust him with their careers. He's been a hero to countless athletes and families throughout his career, but to me he's been my biggest hero since day one. Dad, welcome to athletes after hours. - Thank you, Gracie. So nice to be here. - It's so weird, I hear you're here. I feel like when I had mom on, it felt obviously normal and natural, but you're not able to come up as much as mom. So it's extra special that you were able to make some time in your busy schedule to come yap on the pod. - I love this. This is great. - Well, I want to start in the early stages of your life because obviously I wasn't around for it yet, and I actually don't know a lot of these questions I wrote up. So this is going to be a really fun opportunity to just get to know you more and connect with you on a deeper level. So here we go. Growing up, I've seen you do a million different sports, whether it's beach volleyball, skiing, snowboarding, wakeboarding, all the things, and those are just a few that come to mind. When did you first fall in love with sports and what's been your favorite part of being an athlete? - So I think it was way back. I mean, obviously, one of our biggest inspirations for both you and me is Besta Moore, which is Norwegian for a grandmother. It's my mom. And I remember even at age five, six, seven years old that we would be out in Besta Moore, we out with us having sprinting races. It was crazy. So she grew up in Northern Norway. - Yeah. - And great stories about her. As you know, out skiing with her father, way out in the hinterland of Norway. - And she was on the national team for cross country skiing, right? - No, she was on the national team for sprinting. She was the fastest runner in Norway. - What? - So yes. So she was supposed to go to the Olympics, but back then you had to pay your own way. - Oh my God. - So obviously, her dad, who really started all this, he was a forester who did, he was in charge of one third of Norway's forests. And he would have to do them in the winter on cross country skis. And then the summer was basically hiking. - Wow. - You know, this, normally it was very poor before they found oil, you know, in the North Sea. And they were just a farming kind of country. - Yeah. - And he didn't have a truck, things like that. So it was horseback or on foot. - Or on foot. And a lot of it was on foot. - Or on cross country skis. And so he and his buddies cross country ski everywhere. And best of more was right there with them. She started skiing at age three. She was skating by age two. My grandmother was out on what was called a Sparksicle, which is, it looks like. - It's a fun name. - And it was really cute. - A Sparksicle. - It's basically, it's two long blades that with the little seat on the front and on the back, it's a little squiggly, so you can put your feet on it. And then you push on in the middle. So in the winter time, she would go three to five miles into town to go shopping, put everything in the basket and then Sparksicle back home again. - Wow. - Yeah, they didn't have cars. So she got us being active very early. We were all on skis by the time we were three. - Yeah. - She would throw us all into a car. So here we lived in Laguna. - You're one of four kids. - One of four kids. - Just like me. - Exactly. She would throw us all in. And it was, we called the Grey Ghost. This was this old Buick regular sedan and big trunk back then. - Uh huh. - And she would take all four kids skis and stuff, throw in the back, plus her own, leave it for in the morning or even earlier, three in the morning from Laguna, drive to mammoth. Oh my god. Just her. - By herself. - 'Cause my dad was working. Should ski all day Saturday, stay overnight, one night, skis Sunday, throw all the stuff back in the car and drive home. - With four children. And obviously nobody else was driving. She was doing it. - Yeah. - And we did it a lot. - And that's what like a seven, eight hour drive. - Yes. And it was every, it was before the back then, the rows were two lanes. There was nothing like we have now. - Oh my god. - So it was gnarly. - I mean, that was probably before too. Like the resorts were what they are now. - Oh yeah. - So we had leather boots, wooden skis, what we call bear trap bindings, bamboo poles. - Iconic. - And yeah. And basically, we had woolen gloves. There's no such thing as a cool gloves that we have now. - So retro. - Oh yeah. But it's kind of cool. 'Cause she would, she would knit some of our gloves. She would knit our hats. - Yeah. - So we had some, you know, kind of cool gear, but at the same time, it wasn't that warm. - Yeah. - So you had to just fricking and rough it out. And her thing was like, how do we stay in shape when we were kids? If you came and mom, I'm hungry. Rather than feeding us, she goes, drink water, it'll fill you up. And then he said, mom, we're cold. She go, run around, it'll warm you up. But honestly, it was kind of the truth. Like she had an old expression in Norway, this, it's never too cold. You should not dress properly, or you're not moving properly. - Oh. - In other words, keep going. Keep moving. - She is, she is pretty tough. - She's way tough. - She is crazy tough. - I mean, she turns 97 tomorrow. - I know. - And still, here she goes, she walks with her friends, three to five miles, two to three days a week. - So crazy. - Yes, it's nuts. - Oh, people already saw her on my post from the wedding. And people were like, damn, your grandma can move. I'm like, and people don't even know how old she is. It's so crazy. Yeah, she's definitely one of my biggest inspirations along with you when it comes to longevity in my life. And longevity and movement and maintaining an athletic lifestyle, not just an athletic career. - Yep. - And so, obviously you grew up with her as such a big inspiration for that. - Yep. - You and along with your, a lot of your siblings have been extremely active for the majority of your careers. - Yeah. - I mean, I think what, Stan is in mountain biking. - Stan is for years as world class in mountain biking. - And then you are obviously a jack of all trades. And, and Corey is also, I think she's like running a marathon or something soon or doing something crazy. When and how did you get into athletics when you're younger? - So the great thing was, is like, are elementary schools? You know, I was at El Moro in Laguna. And we had Flagfoot Ball. We had basketball. We had volleyball. We had all these running events. We had back then it was called the Presidential Fitness Awards. And, you know, I'm gonna be one of the better ones. We got there, pound the pull-ups and pound the push-ups. - And you were one of the most competitive humans I've ever met. - Oh, yeah. - So that's just saying, you know, saying something. - And all my classmates, they're good athletes. - Yeah. - So it was, it was, you know, they always talk about how the youngest is off in the best athlete 'cause it's the Kamalong Johnny Syndrome, where they got to keep up with the older kids. I was always young for my grade. So I was like, Kamalong Johnny with my own classmates. - Yeah. - 'Cause they were all, I had a couple of them who were old for their class. Like one kid who was such a good athlete, he came from germ, he, well, he, he was American, but he went to Germany. And when he came back to the States, he couldn't speak English. - Oh. - So they put him back a couple grades. - Oh no. - And so at the time we were in high school, he was like two years older than the rest of us. - Oh wow. - And he was a great athlete to begin with. - Yeah. - So he was like an inspiration, like, trying to keep up with him, made me, and a lot of us have to really up our game. - What sports did you do in middle school and high school? - So middle school was when we started, so we started, well, it was kind of fun at Elmora. We had cool things like, we had body surfing for PE. - What? - Yeah, we could go down to Elmora and body surfing. So we'd bring our fins to school. - That is the most beach life thing I've ever heard. - It's amazing. And a bunch of punk kids crossing coast highway. - Yeah, barefoot running across, yeah. - Yeah, it was nuts. - I could see that. - Yeah, so fun. And by time we were going to Thurston, which was the middle school. - Yeah. - It's way up on the hill. We'd ride our bikes. And back then it was just a sting race. There wasn't 10 speed stuff like that. So we're riding way up this hill, bombing down, obviously. - Of course. - And the fun thing was, we were there right at the beginning of the kind of skateboard revolution. We started with clay wheels when we were really little. And it was hilarious, 'cause my older brother, he was probably nine at the time, and he would stand up on the skateboard and go down the hills. And he'd say stuff like, I'm surfing. And so me and Stan, you know, we were five and three. And we would get on the skateboard on our belly and go, we're body surfing. (laughing) And there's a couple of times we'd hit a rock. And there was, oh, yeah. - Yes. - Split my chin. - Yep. - And Stan had this where he did like what Andrew did, just the whole silence. face was one big scab. - Oh my God, it's just road burn. - Oh, road burn. But, you know, once we could start standing up on a skateboard, by the time we were-- - It was game over. - It was game over. And then we're just doing that. And then they came out with urethane wheels when we were in junior high. And that was really game over. 'Cause now it's start writing, you know, pools and just-- - You do way more. - Yeah, and so that kind of got us into surfing. And fortunately, having an older brother, he kind of cracked the code with my parents to allow us to surf. 'Cause back then, we were talking about Laguna Beach. Being a surfer means you're dropping acid. You're smoking pot. - Oh, true. - Yeah, the culture was so different. - Yeah. - Parents didn't necessarily want their kids surfing. - Yeah. - I mean, for example, you know, we had-- - You forgot about that. - That's where Timothy Liri was arrested, you know, in Laguna Beach, and he was like the drug guru. We had a Taco Bell, which was right down by Cleo Street, you know, down off Coast Highway. They sold LSD over the counter. Stop. - Oh yeah. - What? - Oh yeah. I was nine once when I rode my bike over to a buddy of mine's house. And his name, it was two twins, James and John. - So Jimmy John. - Exactly. (laughing) And I'm on my bike, and I'm leaning against this car, and I hear all this yelling going on, coming out of James and John's house. It's her older brother, Dan. Dan had dropped acid and was having a bad trip. - Oh my God. - And he had a German Shepherd. He sick the German Shepherd on like one of the neighbor's wives. She, fortunately, got out there without being killed. Six-cent dog on his mom, and then he comes running out of the house, and I'm sitting leaning against a car on my little bike, and he goes between me and the car. Just knocks me down. As I see him run down the street, banging his head against the asphalt. - Oh my gosh. - Oh yeah, and they came away and took him away in a straight jacket. - Huh. - So in some ways, it was kind of like, don't worry, mom and dad. We're not taking acid. - We've seen the worst of it. - We've seen some scary stuff. - Yeah. - That's gnarly. - It was gnarly. - Whoa. So then when you got into surfing and you got into the scene of that world, do you feel like you kind of, I guess, sheltered yourself from that culture and just kind of stuck to the sport? Or, okay. - Totally. And it's one of those things too, where it was funny. So we're in Little League, and we were, so Sten and I were in this TV commercial, surprising enough, it was four. It was for Chevy, and they took these two kids that were our age plus their parents. And back in the old days, when you would have a movie, they would show a 20 minute commercial beforehand. - Yeah. - And it was shot by now, one of my friends, Greg McGilvery, who also shot the movie that we're gonna watch after this commercial. And so we commercial, and we're in this thing, and it's kind of cute. We're like out in the field and things, and it's all part of the commercial. And the bottom line is that, as soon as the commercial's over, the main movie comes on. And the main movie is Five Summer Stories. Remember that? So that's, you see like the album that we have at home. - Yeah. - And very beginning. So here I am, 11 years old, 10 years old. And at the very beginning, they start with the song, Pipeline Sequence, and they show this wave of pipeline. And it starts just coming on like kind of slow motion, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then right then, it just starts with this big wave of pipeline, and Jerry Lopez dropping in, and just getting barrelled right across that. And I remember here I am 10 years old to go on. That's what I wanna do. - Oh. - Right there. - That's cool. - It was so awesome. And so then Carl, my older brother, he and I, found this old board for 15 bucks. And it was kind of this clunky shape. - Yeah. - Because we took our, took our planer and our saw and literally reshaped it and re-glasted into kind of a better board. - Whoa. - And that was my first board. - Oh my God. - Yeah. - What a cool full circle moment too, 'cause like my little brother Andrew got into the shaping board business for a little bit. And he was shaping boards outside of your, in your garage. - In our garage. - Yeah. - Which is so funny. - Well, funny with his story is that he started, so he was 15 and I go, "What do you want for your birthday?" And he goes, "I don't want a fish." And a fish is the type of surfboard that's kind of wider. - Yeah, I remember. - Twinfin, you know, kind of a wider tail. And it's just a super fun board for kind of smaller ways and stuff like that. I said, "What if you make your own?" And he goes, "Ooh, even better idea." So we got our friend Kenny called well to help him shape and they had so much fun. - Yeah, I remember that. And then he took the board up to Brad House and they blasted. - Yeah. - And you know how fun Andrew is. Like these guys had a great time doing it. - Yeah. - And now he's got this great fish that he made his own and then he said, "Wow, that wasn't so bad." So he started making boards at a friend's house and then we put together a little shaping bay right in the garage and you just kept making boards. - Yeah. - And we, you know what I talked about yesterday, we wanted basically, 'cause Ren put a bunch of stuff in there, we got, throw that out so we can get the shaping bay back. - Yeah. - And get back into it and at least, back at home. - Totally. - That's so funny. So then you got into surfing where you want to surf team at in high school. - So we were, we had a surf team, but at the time I was playing tennis and-- - What's all the sports that you did? 'Cause the fun thing about us is like, as similar as we are in athletics and I feel like, and just the way our brain works when it comes to sports, you are the definition of jack of all trades when it comes to sports. Like you did every sport under the sun, you still do basically every sport under the sun and like I did something very specialized. - Yeah. - So I feel like it's so interesting seeing your approach to sport because you're so hybrid, but how many sports did you do in high school and then how do you think it really like set you up for success with your approach to sport at the whole? - So when I first started, so starting really young, I had a good friend, Eric Michelson, and we would go and play tennis down at the park. There was a basketball court, we'd play basketball, skimboard, surfed, body surfed. I mean like everything, and if it was the season, we'd be throwing the football, we'd be doing, we're all on the baseball team, and he and I were on the same baseball team together, super fun. - So basically you just can't set still. - Oh god no. (laughing) - How long? (laughing) - And then, and then when we got to high school, I played tennis and I was on the cross-country team, and then surfed every minute that I wasn't doing that. - You were on the cross-country team? - Yeah. - Well, what? - I know. (laughing) - How did I not know that? - I don't know where else. - That's so random. (laughing) How many miles would you have to run? - We usually ran like three to four, you know, every day, and that was so random. - That was so random. - Wow. - Good kids, and one of the coaches also surfed and his dad surfed, and so I knew them through that world so that was fun. - Yeah. - But then I would play tennis, and I finally, I would play with my friend Eric, and Eric would just like, it didn't matter how much I tried and how much I practiced, you just pretty much consistently beat me. I'd get games off of them, the stuff like that. - Yeah. - Pretty much consistently beat me. And then finally, knowing me with my competitiveness, I excrued that, so I started playing volleyball. Well, he went on to become national champion in college. - Oh my gosh. - And his son is Alex Michelson, who's like playing in the French open right now. - What? - Oh yeah. They're like, they're wild. - Yeah, they're the real deal. - The point makes you feel a little bit better, but I can beat so much. (laughing) - You're like, I make him better. - I guess I wasn't as I thought. Maybe I was, but maybe I wasn't, who knows. - I ain't sure if I'm sorry, it's okay. - Yes. - You were a good company. - Is that all I was saying, you know what I'm, the older I get, the better I was. - Yes. - 100%. - No. - The stories get better, you know? - Oh yeah. - They get a little bit more embellished. - Yeah, totally. - Because you were never recruited for sports. - No. - Because you were pre-med. - Correct. - Did you know that you wanted to be pre-med from the very beginning, or when did you kind of realize that was your path? - So when I was, and that's kind of the whole thing, like your grandfather, my dad, he would bring home equipment and things like that all the time. And he was pretty famous in the orthopedic world. So he would bring, back then they would make 16-millimeter movies, and 35-millimeter movies that he would show at national conferences of surgeries he did. Well, obviously he would have them at home showing us about these, you know, not, he was more like editing it, but we were like watching, 'cause it was fascinating. And they were gnarly, big open surgeries, blood and guts. I mean, you know what I mean? The words in our thros can be back then. - Yeah. - And so I was immune to all that stuff. I'm like, eh, and I found it pretty fascinating. You know it was good in science, not as good in math, and seemed like a perfect fit. And as you know, orthopedics is not only medical, but it's physical in a sense that there's a lot of mechanical stuff to it. And then with the fact that it became sort of sports more medicine oriented. It was in easy. easy transition for me. It made perfect sense to me. 'Cause I had plenty of injuries, growing up and plenty of friends injuries and kind of paid attention. And I saw what worked, what didn't work. So going into sports medicine was great. - That's crazy. And not only were you in medicine, your mom was in medicine. She was a physical therapist. Your dad was obviously in orthopedic surgeon who founded the practice. Your brother is in the practice with you now. And he does pain management and focuses more like on the back and the neck. And then your sister is an ER doctor. - Correct. - Her two kids are both premed. - Yeah. - Her husband's also med. - Once in medical school, one's already in intern, yeah. - One's already a doctor. Her husband's a doctor and my three siblings were all in medical fields. - Yeah. (laughs) - Actually insane. - So when you're actually-- - I'm just gonna say what-- - I'm just gonna say when you're at the family dinners and they're talking about this stuff like, what? - Oh my god, I literally remember we were at Easter. And of course you guys go off on these tangents about what's going on in the ER room and everything. And like it's just so funny. Like I'm just sitting there with mom. Like so did you watch reality TV yesterday? (laughs) We're like, well you don't know what they're talking about, but it's so cool to see. I think what connected us was obviously my injuries and my journey in gymnastics. And every time I tell people what you do, the immediate response is, well thank god you had him because gymnastics is obviously a very brutal sport on the body. And I definitely give a lot of credit to you for preparing me for the sport and educating me and helping me have the resources to be able to have longevity in the sport. Because I was one of the athletes that left college gymnastics in one piece. - Yeah. - Thank god. And like I mean, what are some ways that you think you helped me have longevity in my sport? - I think there is, I think it was a huge team effort in the sense that I really appreciate it when you got to wildfire. And when I found out that they spent almost half the time conditioning and then half the time was doing gymnastics, your injury rate plummeted and it went down almost zero. - Yeah. - Because you were just tuned. - Yeah. - And then you saw and then mom, very, you know, started with Bestomar, very interested nutrition. - In physical therapy. Mom, very interested in nutrition. Same with me, you know, basically trying to make you, and you, nobody had to tell you, you realized, no processed foods, no excess sugar, you know all this stuff. It just, you and I are the same. We have excess sugar or bouncing off the walls. We don't need it. - Yeah. - You know, we have enough energy without excess sugar. But that's kind of good because I think in a lot of ways it, your body heals, because your body, you're always breaking stuff down. And so you're always building it back up again. And you want to make sure, remember the old expression, I used to say when you guys were kids, which is, you can't make a strong house out of soft bricks. - Yeah. - If you don't do it right nutritionally, the rest of it doesn't matter. - Yeah. So true. And I mean, you put me in a physical therapy at age eight. - Yeah. - And I've been doing preventative physical therapy since I can remember. I mean, even though my physical therapists had like strapped me to the table to keep me from running around. But I do think that is a massive one because I learned, like I was a sponge when it came to physical therapy. I, to the point where I thought I was going to become a physical therapist. - Correct. - Because I knew so much about my own body. I was so in tune, like you said. And yeah, I think being exposed to all of that so early in, like you have so much more autonomy on your career because you know what you need to do outside of the gym and even in the gym as well to prevent injury, to maintain strength, to help mobility and all the things. And like I remember having a conversation with you when I was in college and being like, I don't know what to do. We've been doing so much lifting, which we've never did in high school. That's kind of the weird thing about when you go to college from now six is you start getting required. You're now required to do lifting. After you train for four and a half hours and my body was not responding well to it. 'Cause like us, like you're very similar to me, we build muscle very quickly and easily, but we also get tight really easily. And so my hip flexors were jacked up from it from like squatting and heavy lifting. And I remember you and I having a conversation and you were like, you have to work two times as hard to get your flexibility and mobility. So make sure you communicate with that with them so that they can tailor your training. And I feel like you always said to, it's way better to have to work for your flexibility than to have to build stability if you're like hyper-mobile. - Correct. - And so I think that was really helpful too. Like being able to always pick up the phone and call you whenever I needed advice or input or even for like my teammates. I mean, how many times have I referred my teammates to you or friends and he, I remember the other day, you were like, you're the reason I get so much business 'cause I have so many friends. - Totally. - Always coming in and, hey, you know, Gracie, I'm Gracie's friend coming in and needing help with whatever. But yeah, I think it's such a unique opportunity for us to bond and to have a special relationship because-- - Remember that when you had the strength, strength coach there at UCLA. - Yeah. - And we pretty much, it was true if it wasn't alive, but I told you, tell 'em, your doctor, meaning me, said, you can't do that lift. - Yeah. - Like, it was jacking your shoulders. It was the dumbest thing ever. - Yeah, yeah. - It was messing with a lot of my body for sure. It is pretty fun being like, "Doctors know for like. " - Yeah. - Totally. - Like in a prescription for something, I'm like, "Dad, can you write the prescription?" Thank you. - We never abused it, but it made it a lot more easy. - It just streamlined everything. - Yeah. - Especially with a sport like mine, it you need it. I mean, you gave me a massive edge. Speaking of a massive edge as though, how was doing my surgery? - You know? - My first ever surgery-- - I know, I know, for your Achilles. - Yeah. - And it's kind of wild, it sounds weird, but when I was first starting surgery as a second year resident. - Yeah. - My chief resident said, "Oh yeah, my wife was asking me what it's like to do in surgery." And he goes, "You know, once we drape it off, we're not thinking about the person. We're thinking about that." And it's kind of true. I mean, you get so just tuned in, you're not thinking about the person. Like for example-- - Like tunnel vision. - Like tunnel vision. Like I've had, one time I had an orthopedic surgeon, whose knee had gotten jacked up by his partner. So he wanted me to redo it. But he goes, "I want to stay awake and watch." And I remember my anesthesiologist going, "That's not going to be much fine." I go, "It's fine." - So you just numb the hell out of his leg and then-- - And he just basically stayed fully awake and asking questions while I'm doing it and stuff like that. He was hilarious. And then I had the one where I was doing, you know, when I used to do a lot of, teaching a lot of conferences and stuff like that, I was teaching a conference on hip arthroscopy. - Yeah. - So we took a real patient and I did, and they miked me up and then they got all the cameras watching the surgery plus they had all the cameras watching what's happening arthroscopically. And it was all getting piped back to a hotel where there's 250 people watching it and they were able to ask questions during the surgery. So I'm sitting there doing this complicated hip surgery while they're asking questions. So doing your Achilles, it's nothing. - Yeah, you basically did a surgery on stage. - Exactly. - That's crazy. Live. - Live. - With a live audience. - Yeah. - What the hell? - On a crack couple jokes, you know. - Yeah, of course. - You know me. - I know you. You've got a job of you dad jokes, that's for sure. So yeah, when you did my surgery, I mean, that's super fair because I remember when I got photo, you took photos of me when I was like obviously under and all it was was literally like this tiny little spot. This is massive tarp and then just this tiny little spot where my Achilles was. And, but I mean, still like when you were going into it, I mean, I guess we can kind of rewind and go back to when I first called you when it happened. How did you feel about that situation? - You know, the great news is I knew that you are calm in the face of a storm. - Yeah. - 'Cause that's the biggest thing. And like, you know, Andrew and I were talking about Andrew's little brother. Andrew and I were talking about how when you come upon an accident, you're come upon things that are happening that calm begets calm and panic begets panic. Like if you find someone in their leg is in a weird twisted position, the worst thing you can do is start freaking out. - Yeah. - You have to act like it's just another day of the beach. - Yeah. - You keep them calm and you're good about that. You just call me like, I tore my Achilles and like, and they want to take me to the ER. I'm going, we're in New York City. You'll be sitting in an ER for eight hours and they're gonna give you crutches in a wrap. - Yeah. - Like, all I want is one of your friends go get you some crutches. - Yeah. - And you're like, okay, should I, I should do this. I said, yeah, let's do that and you know what to do. - Yeah. - And the good news is you are already new enough about your body and enough about injuries that you weren't freaking out. - Yeah. - So it was super easy. you got home. But I think that's that's a huge testament to you as well, because I am one of those people where I match energy very easily. And so when I hopped on the phone with you and you were calm, it dictated how I should feel. And that was huge. And I feel like that's always how our relationship has been growing up. Like I've split my chin open. And I remember I was like bleeding all down my chest and like literally in shambles. And I just I didn't even cry until I looked to you. And you were like, you're fine. We'll stitch it up. No worries. And I go, oh, okay. Yeah. It's kind of like that thing like on like TikTok where they like test to see if they're baby. Like your reaction is how the baby reacts. You see that? Yeah. It's so crazy. Like if the baby hits their head, they look to the mom to see how they react. And then they react accordingly. And so I feel like you've kind of been that for me. I know not to lean on mom, but it comes just like that. She gets very overwhelmed. She's a little bit more emotional. She doesn't have to live what we live. Yeah. And she doesn't have the bedside manner, which is okay. The only time you had an injury where you were a little bit more freaked out about it. Yeah. Was one time she heard her thumb. And it was bleeding and stuff like that. And I go, honey, it's it's a cut. You're going to be fine. She goes, but it's my sucking thumb. All right. I knew I was going to get embarrassed at least once on this interview. That one, that one's next level. I'm like trying to, in my head, I'm like, thinking, all you injuries I've done and all the injuries that have happened to me. And I'm like, that was not the top one. That's for sure. But that's pretty important. That was important. I did suck my thumb for a little too long. That's for sure. Gosh darn it. Well, when it comes to like obviously all the injuries that I've had, which one did you feel like was the one that sticks out to you the most? I think the only one that really had me a little concern was the Achilles. Because remember he was, it wasn't long after Kobe did his and a friend of mine did Kobe's surgery. Yeah. And obviously he went very well. And I haven't taken a lot care of a lot of Achilles. I kind of know that it's not unusual for people to still have weakness in that calf and and atrophy that calf for sometimes several years. Yeah. How did I come in the other day? And he showed me his calves and it was about something else. I go, you know, nerve injury. Oh, no, that was my Achilles. And it never quite rehabbed. It was half the size of the other side. Yeah. I like dang. Yeah. You didn't really have baby. It does require a lot of rehab. It was a lot of work. Like my calf is still smaller than my last one. Yes. But yeah, I definitely felt like the recovery, we knew that the recovery was going to be a beast. Yes. But I think what really helped was like one living at home at the time. So every milestone that we made, every little, you know, victory that we got was like in the house. I remember like you walking down the stairs and being like, okay, you can take your cast off today. And I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah. So much so that we like forgot to report back to workers comp and be like, oh, by the way, we had an office visit. Yeah. That's true. Like in the living room. Yeah. That's true. But yeah, it was it was a really trippy experience to have. Obviously you be my right hand man when it came to that recovery. But we got me back in six months, which is like feels like a Guinness book, book, oral records type type of thing. You were up and yeah, you were strengthening. You're a strengthening at two and a half months. You were you were going off. It was it was perfect. Yeah. And it was nice just because I could palpate it every day and go, okay, now you're ready for step two rather than waiting three weeks till you come to the office. And then someone says, okay, now you're ready for step two. Yeah. That was pretty sweet. Yeah. Being able to act on how quickly my body was progressing and how much I was bouncing back because everybody's different. And it's really hard to dictate the recovery process person to person. Yeah. What would you say was the hardest surger you've ever done and why? Hardest one. Or maybe like most challenging case. Yeah. I think I had one was a professional surfer who basically during the pipeline master is he was going back to or remember that's going right right there. Yeah. And his knee basically the way that the wave sucked out, it just pushes knee down where his knee almost went 90 degrees the opposite sideways. Oh geez. So he blew his ACL, PCL, MCL. He's getting all his advice from all around the country because he was a top level athlete. Yeah. And so we ended up staying at our house. Remember, and I ended up reconstructing ACL, we're doing a two bundle PCL reconstruction, ACL, meal menister repair, meal collateral ligament repair. And unfortunately, you know, he wanted to get going. And we were able to get him back on tour within it was about 10 months. Wow. Yeah. So that was that was great. But that was kind of the reason why it was gnarly is if you look statistically, the chance of going back to professional sports with that injury. Very slim. It's like 5%. That's crazy. It's just because no matter what you do, once you're fixed, now it's up to the body too. It may overstiffen. It may overscar. It may stretch out and get loose. And and all that a lot of that won't matter if someone's just has a desk job. Yeah. But to be doing errors and stuff that to be pushing your body. Yeah. Like he was well known for doing big errors and you're landing big. It's not in the air that matters. Yeah. It's the landing that matters. And and that puts your knee in that compromised position when you land. So I think that was that was a tough one. Yeah. And that was 20 years ago. Wow. Yeah. We're still in the Laguna house. Dang. I mean, yeah, it's definitely also I remember you expressing some frustration too. And like whenever people get surgery and then they complain about not feeling their best. And then you're like, so how was your rehab? And they're like, I didn't. And you're like, dude, yeah, I can bring a horse to water. I can't make them drink. Like once you do the surgery, it's up to the athlete, it's up to the person to do the proper rehab to go to physical therapy to devote time, effort, and energy to getting back to 100%. And it's like, you can't really sit there and complain. Like it's not, you know, it's the surgeon's fault for not feeling 100% when you did your job. And it's not like you're going to be able to like, can't call and babysit them. Be like, did you go to the physical therapy today? Yeah. So yeah, I felt like that was also a massive reason why I came back as quickly as I did because I was so devoted to not only getting back to feeling normal, but getting back to a sport that was so demanding. Like I knew in that moment, I didn't want to stop gymnastics. I didn't want to retire. And I think that doing gymnastics as my rehab was one of the best things I probably could have done. Like anytime I talk to people who have ankle injuries or Achilles injuries, I'm like, go jump on a trampoline. Yes. It was so beneficial. Yes. And then immediately to your muscle memory comes back and it helps everything kind of acclimate back to normal. But yeah, that was a, that was a big one. I have patients who they get ankle injuries. And I go, and they're not even that far long ago, you need to go down and walk in the soft sand. You walk in the sand. When you're saying that your foot is wiggling. Yeah. Because they're freaking out just normally. And you have to realize, you have to get them to realize they, they're not that fragile. Yeah. And if they stay in that fragility sense the whole time, then they're just, they're going to go backwards because then they'll never really have it. There was one of the guys who was older. He was an ACL, PCL, I'm sorry, he was an ACL, MCL, meniscus injury. So it's a big injury. We call it, we used to call it Madonna. He was unhappy triad when you blow all three of those. So I reconstructed him, fixed him up. And he was in the office at about two and a half weeks after surgery. And he's barely moving his knee. Oh, jeez. And so I'm telling him, okay, you got to move your knee. And this sounds like I could only do this because I knew him and I knew his personality. Yeah. It sit there with my foot while I'm standing you talking to him and I kick him. I kick the knee that I just did surgery. I kick about that hard. And he goes, I go, see, it's not that fragile. He called me back two weeks, two days later. He goes, best thing you could have ever done. It woke him up. Yes. It made him realize, I'm not that fragile. Yeah, it ripped the bandit off a little back, surfing, doing all the stuff he wants to do. Yeah. But otherwise, it could have taken an extra five months to have it. And he may never have gotten back. If he kept that fragility sense in his head, I would say it's all a mentality really. It's all in your head because your brain is so much stronger than you think and it will dictate your pain. Yeah. Threshold. That's pretty wild. But even even from, you know, the orthopedic world, there's so many times that the recovery on a lot of these different injuries, doctors make him wait so much longer than they need to. Yeah. The collagen's healed, the tendons healed, the ligaments healed. Yeah. Go ahead and go. You need to. I do love that about your, your approach to everything because I remember even everyone knows that's listening that knows me, knows that I'm very sendy. And I, I mean, you had to put a cast on me one time because not even I needed it, you were just like, This is going to prevent you from doing crazy shit like so you don't flip and kill yourself. We're gonna just put a cast on it to protect it because I don't trust you. Yeah. Probably still gonna flip. And I did. That's why I got so good at front twisting. But I mean, what's cool about it is like, I remember when I was going through my Achilles recovery and you saying, yeah, it's time to jump on the trampoline and me being like, what do you mean? Like, there's no way I'm ready to do that or there's no way I'm ready to start running or walking even. Like, I remember you having so much confidence in pushing me to do things earlier than I think mentally I thought I was ready for. And again, it just, it gives me the confidence to just, I had to blindly trust you. And it worked out. I mean, so much more than I ever thought I it would. I mean, we shaved off basically six months of my recovery, most Achilles surgeries, you know, that recovery process like a year. So it was cool that I could get back to doing what I love so quickly. I didn't have an extreme timeline, but I knew that I wanted to get back as fast as possible to my sport because you lose skills very quickly when you're in gymnastics. You've had smaller timelines. Can we talk about John, John? You already had them. But we never talked about your side of it. That's true. Obviously generational surfer, probably one of the greatest in his generation. Unfortunately, he's like you very calm, very, it's kind of a funny word, you know, calma collected where people don't really know what collected means. But what it really kind of means is the fact that he understands himself. He understands his own mentality. He understands the big picture, the little picture. He's really good about stuff like that. So when he gets injured, he's not thinking short term. He's thinking short term, medium term, long term. He's just really good about that. Very good like compartmentalizing. He really is. So we had one time where he blew his ACL and he kind of got talked into trying to rehab it. And he just didn't get better, didn't get better, didn't get better. And then he finally came to me and he go, let's just fix it. Well, now he's basically five months before the pipe masters. And he's just one of the biggest competitions of biggest competitions. Obviously, he started surfing pipeline at age 10 or nine. I mean, just ridiculous. And this was the Olympic year as well, right? This was, no, this was the pre those the year before the Olympics. Okay. But he had to get at least, I think made it, make it to the fourth round of the quarters or something to make sure that he and at the time, Collohandino were the two top American surfers. So he'd get on the Olympic team. So it basically would solidify his position with the Olympic team. Correct. Got it. It would get him on the team. Got it. So it's like a qualifier. Correct. So he, he blows his ACL. So we fixed that ACL. I can't remember if it was right or left. We fixed that ACL. And we rehab him hard. And he makes it back and he gets in the pipe masters and he qualifies. He makes it all the way through. So it's first contest back at about four and a half, five months from that ACL tear. Insane. We're like, oh my god, this is unbelievable. Yeah. All good. And you were there, right? No, I wasn't there. I wasn't there at Hawaii at the time. Okay. All good. And then is there a year later or maybe just a few months later, I forget. So the Olympics is in July. He calls me. I hurt my other knee. And it is April. Oh my gosh. Uh oh. So he flew out to California. I'm looking at his MRI and go, you know, it's a possibility. I can repair this ACL, not do a reconstruction. And what it repairs is if if it's pulled off the bone on one side of the other, I can whip sutures through it, pass it through. And then I use what's called an internal brace to kind of hold it in place as well as I did kind of a fancy thing called an ALL reconstruction to give him like a little extra protection. Yeah. We end up doing that. And he was surfing in the Olympics at nine weeks after surgery. That's so insane. So that was insane. And he went on to win two world titles after that. With those knees. Yeah. So he's such, you know, again, a humble guy that after he won his second world title, he, he and I were chatting, he goes, he looks at me, goes, I did this because of these knees. It was really cute. So he's just a good man. Yeah. So cool. But again, it takes that kind of mentality to, it was a team effort. Team effort. Not freak out. Yeah. Hang in there. And, and I told him, when I'm doing this, if I'm doing the ACL repair, I think we can pull this off and you can be in the Olympics. If it's not good tissue, I have to do a reconstruction, then you can't. Yeah. Well, so when he got injured, um, about maybe two hours later after I saw him in the office. Yeah. Who do I get a call from? The person who's sitting number three who would have gone the Olympics if John was out Kelly. Kelly. So Kelly calls me because Kelly Slater calls you. Yeah. So he calls me goes, how's John's injury? I can't tell you. He goes, we're am I going to be in? Well, we'll see. That's so well. Because you've done Kelly's surgeries. Yeah. I mean, for the whole career, any injury he had, you were the guy. Yeah. But there's a few times I sent him to somebody who I think is just better. More specialized. Yeah. More specialized. When he did his foot, remember that gnarly foot? I said, the guy named Harris, who's like phenomenal on on foot surgeries. So that was really cool. But good for you to like recognize when it's your place to do the surgery versus like, you know, outsourcing and finding someone else to do it. It's kind of wild. The two things that sort of solidified my reputation, um, with the surfing world, pro surfing world was a long time ago, probably, I forget. But one of one of the top Hawaiian surfers, he tore his rotare cuff during the pipe masters had a surgery in Hawaii. And so this is December. Comes to see me in April because he's friends of Dino and Dino. So he's staying with Dino. So Dino talks to me. You got to go see Warren. You got to go see him. So he comes to see me and his range emotion was this. It was nothing. Oh geez. Like, well, so what I did is I whipped him in, cleaned out a ton of scar tissue, sent him to this, this group, monahenem monahenem to do his PT. They got his range emotion back beautifully. Once his range emotion was back, he settled down a little bit. Then at six weeks that went back in, re-repaired because the tear, the tear, Richard Cuff had been sort of done wrong. Plus there was a second tear that they didn't have a chance of fix or who knows. Oh geez. And so I fixed that. And so this is by this time, it's June, end of June, July. So he sends me a picture surfing YMIA Bay in December. Wow. Six months later. And he's been perfect ever since. That probably feels so good. So it's so good because and then also just, you know, rep-wise people in Hawaii, they're like, oh geez, you get a bad injury. He's the guy. Go see Kramer, California. Yeah. So it's all good. And then the second thing that kind of helped my reputation is remember when when the Hobbit boys, he blasted his aunt, his heel, pretty bad motocross race. Oh yeah. Yeah. So he busts up his calcaneus really badly. He sees me and I went, haven't seen an injury like this before. I'm gonna have you go see Dr. Smith and who at the time was the president of foot and ankle society. So we went up, had it done and it felt kind of good because I've Dr. Smith, rather later, told me goes, I haven't seen that one before either. It was like, it was a weird fracture. Yeah. But he gets fixed up, but what was nice is, you know, the Hobgones are such nice people and they and they told the other surfers go, you can trust Dr. Kramer because he's not going to just operate, just to operate. Just operate. Yeah. He's going to make sure you go to the best person for what you have wrong. Yeah. And I've and you know that. I do know everybody. And you're very conservative as well. Exactly. So never operate if you don't need to. Exactly. And I think that's almost more of a, there's an old surgeon who goes, doing surgery makes you good, not doing surgery makes you famous. It's kind of true. Wow. Yeah. Never thought of it like that. That's pretty cool. One last surf story, I had to hear the one about Richie. Yes. So Richie love it as an Australian surfer who beautiful surfer. I mean, you should have seen, you just look at it, some of the old videos, just such a beautiful surfer and just a beautiful human being. So we're at, we're on the North Shore is during the Pit Masters. And he brings this one solo x-ray. And just a single x-ray and he says, the doctors tell me I have a giant cell tumor in my hip and I need to have it taken out and they need to do a replacement on it. I look at the x-ray just one and I went, this isn't a giant cell tumor. The edges are too diffuse like it was It was big. It was right in what's called the inner trochanteric area said, "This is, this is worse than a giant cell tumor. And if they do what they're telling you they're going to do, they're going to cut right through the middle of this and it's going to spread, it's going to be really bad." Yeah. So, I got a hold of one of our tumor specialists and just, you know, one of those things where fortunately, you know, our world's small enough that I can call some of these guys and this guy is superven. So, he fortunately surfed, too. So I told him, I was going on and he saw a richy biopsy to him, came back, clear cell, condor sarcoma, which can be deadly. Yes. And he went on to take it all the way out and then do what's called the endoprocesses, which is a partial, it's a full hip replacement, but it even takes out part of the proximal femur and reattach it. He did such a beautiful job that he was able to return to surfing, obviously not back to the tour, but at least able to surf and he's still alive 20 years later, which is everything. Yeah. So, that was, in the end up, memory end up staying with us for five months. Yeah. That was the really cool thing about your job when it came to working with the surf world because we had so many people that were international that would come out, get their surgeries done, and then you were just, we had a guest room, so you said, stay with us. And they kind of got the special VIP treatment that I got when I had my surgery where you're living with your doctor, you know, you get updates on a weekly basis on, you know, how much progression you can make, how much PT you should be doing and all the things. And I truly believe that it was such an incredible opportunity for these athletes to get that very up close and personal experience with you to get their surgeries done and then live with their surgeon. Yeah. It's not normal. Well, remember when Maurice Cole first came to us 25 years ago and ended up staying with us. He's a famous board shaper. Famous board shaper, phenomenal surfer himself. And he was told in Australia that his shoulder needed X, Y and Z and he came out and saw me and it just wasn't true. So I fixed him and he was kind enough to say, hey, I saved his shaping career and a surfing career because he's gone on to still surf and shape for another 20 plus years. But he's spun in and out of our lives. He's easily stayed with us well over 52 weeks over the last 20 years easily. Yeah. He called Uncle Weirdo. Uncle Weirdo. He'll call us, he'll be at the airport, oh, I'm in town. Come on down. He knows how to get in the garage and just comes right in the house. That's the place to stay. It's perfect. And our house was like a revolving door for. But I think it was the best thing for when you kids were young. You learn how to talk to adults because there'd be new adults in the house all the time. I don't get star struck. You don't get star struck and you learn some crazy stories, especially his stories. Yeah. Prison stories. I mean, just wild stuff and you realize that, yeah, it's not all a big bubble. It's some scary stuff out there. I think it's really like I inherited a lot of your passion for not only sports, but I think people and life and just have like a very unique perspective on life as a whole. What do you think is your biggest driving force for how you function on a day to day? I think you had the same thing I had, which was when we first started as little kids, we were kind of middle of the pack. You know, you weren't on the podium from the time you were seven. You know, you're middle of the pack and you just kept going and it was the same thing with me where I kind of, and it's, you know, I tell it to you, it's that 10% role. You know, if you go and you want to do 20 pull-ups, when you get to 20, you don't stop at 20, you do 22, you go for a run, you do an extra 10%, and that just slowly builds up over time. And by doing that, you realize that so much of the things that limit you physically are not physical. It's mental. It's all mental. Yeah. When you think you cannot do another push-up, there's, it has nothing to do with your muscles. You've got 10 more in the tank. You do. Yeah. You absolutely do. Yeah. Not the rats. You know, remember that rat story where they take these rats and they put them into a little pawn to swim. Okay. I've never heard the story. It's pretty crazy. And so basically the rats, after about 30 minutes, drowned. Okay. Sad. Sad. Totally. But what they would do is at about 28 minutes, just when they're about to drown, they would take them out, they would dry them off, they'd give them some food, they'd let them rest, then they'd put them back in the water again. How long do you think they could swim after that? An hour. 56 hours. What? Yeah. Because they got hope. They got hope that, and so it just shows you, that's true with all of us. So you just keep pushing, realizing that, that thing that's limiting you, whether it's school, athletics, anything, most of it's mental. Yeah. You just have to just go. So, you know, a lot of things that keep me going is one of the temperature I'm ruled in two is, I know that I'm going to be playing volleyball with my buddies on Saturday and Sunday morning at 7 a.m. So does that mean I'm going to be drinking Friday night hell, though? Yeah. I'm going to get early, because I'm sure your life to have, yeah, I don't want to let them down. I don't want to let myself down. Yeah. That's a, that's a pretty good story. I like that one. Yeah. I think what's been really cool too, growing up with you in my life is seeing you juggle so many sports, connecting with your kids, being a husband, being a business owner, running your practice, not only running a business, but being a surgeon, having to, you know, do multiple surgeries a day. And not only seeing you have energy, but seeing you have a genuine joy for every bit of it. And I think that really gives me hope when it comes to feeling like I'm overwhelmed or I feel like I'm in over my head and it's like, but if you're passionate about it, it's not work. Exactly. And it makes all the hard things so much more manageable and more worth it because you know that there's more passion to be had and more moments to collect and it's part of the journey. So I appreciate you teaching me that. You know, when you think about, when you are going through life and you have hard times, the job of, of don't, you can't go through life thinking, all right, as soon as I get through this hard time, now it's going to be easy street. No, no, no, there's always going to be more hard times. So when you're going through those hard times, you're not, don't have the mentality of saying, all I have to do is get through this hard time. No, you have to have the mentality of, I want to handle this hard time the best I can so the next hard time, I'm just a little bit better. Yeah. And so you're constantly just kind of pushing that getting there where, you know, it's, it's that whole thing about choosing your hard. Yeah. Yeah. I was just thinking that. Yes. Yeah. And it's not like you're choosing the challenge to make it easier for the next time. You're choosing it because you know that there's lessons embedded in it. You know that there's growth. You know that there's opportunity to be a better version of yourself on the other side. And that's where you're truly going to benefit from the challenge. Well, it's like what, what you go through, it'd be really easy for you and me not to wake up early and do a workout. Yeah. But you can say, all right, it's hard to wake up early and stay in shape, but it's also hard to go through life being overweight. Yeah. And being unhealthy. Yeah. Which one would you rather have 100% yeah? And I think being around people that have that same mentality and lifestyle is so infectious as well. Like I love that I moved to a city that has a very similar mindset to me and I feel like you surrounding yourself with, I mean, even playing a beach volleyball tournament with you recently and seeing so many guys who are in their mid to late 60s, 70s playing. Better than people that I know, which is so crazy. And like it was so inspiring to me to be like, Oh, I need to invest in my future now. I need to invest in my future self because this is a life that I want to live. And I guess my question for you is like, what do you think has helped you build such a long healthy life since the beginning? I mean, you're 65 now and you're playing volleyball better than half my friends. And so and you're more active than 90% of people my age. So what do you think like sets you apart, I guess? So I think it comes down to you and I know that our body doesn't need to break down. It doesn't have to. So there's a couple things. One is like we said, you don't. You want to make sure, you know, the non-process foods, stay away from sugar or all that kind of stuff where you're giving yourself the best bricks to build a strongest house, but two, when we talk about people who have weekend war, you're centering me for that, right? - Yeah. - The natural inclination of the body is to basically dry out, break down a little bit and that's happening incrementally when you're not using it. So if you're sitting in a chair at your work and you're not working out from Monday to Friday, your body is breaking down that whole time. - Yeah. - And then you go out and you try really, really hard on Saturday, something's gonna snap. And that's when they tear people, tear their bicep, so or whatever. You're tear their killies, because-- - Something has to give. - Something had to give. And if they had been working out those five days a week and keeping all their tens and stuff with good nutrients and good fluids and not drinking the alcohol and not smoking, eating right blah, blah, blah. There's no reason it needs to be breaking down that much. I got what's getting a text from my friend Gary, who's he's 75 and he's going, "Hey, I have to have my cataract done, "so I need to have a fourth, "'cause he plays volleyball Tuesday morning, "they play doubles on the beach." He's 75 and he goes, "I'm gonna be out for a few weeks, "can you take my spa?" I mean, that's impressive. - Yeah. - And everybody that he plays with are in their 60s or early 70s. They're playing doubles in the sand. - That's crazy. - That's awesome. - Yeah, doubles is not for the-- - It's a lot of work. - It's a lot of work. - Yes. - It's so inspiring to hear you talk about it too, because I think a lot of times people can always chalk it up to genetics. And, oh, you know, he's just so blessed. He's great jeans and, you know, they're all family of athletes and all the things. And it's like, no, there's habits and lifestyle routines that compound and create an incredible result. And I mean, I don't think I've ever heard you complain about your body or, you know, like, "Oh, my body hurts, my back hurts." Like all the things, like, it's just so nice to be around someone who's just always excited for the next challenge and always excited to move their body. And you also never had a, I think I inherited a lot of your approach to fitness, as well, because we play. - Yeah. - And I've been the better, I'm in the best shape of my entire life, because I've finally learned I don't have to do fitness the way that everyone else does fitness. I can play. And like, even when you do home workouts, you work out to make yourself better at your sport. - Exactly. - Like, you do calf raises so that you can jump higher when you swing. - 100%. - When you play beach volleyball. And then like, you do pop-ups and burpees so that you can be better at surfing and skiing. And it's just so funny, like, how similar we are as I've gotten older and how, as I've kind of navigated fitness and life and movement. And it's fun. - Yeah, isn't it great that you have your group that you play volleyball with? Because when you're doing your home exercises, you're like, "Okay, I'm doing this for a reason." - Yeah. - Because I want to play better on Friday. - It's so much more motivating. - Yeah, because otherwise, I feel like as an athlete, when you don't have something, for me, like gymnastics was obviously my entire life. So not having something to work towards, not having an end goal when I got out of it was so challenging to be inspired to work out. But now I work out because, I mean, I go to spin class to see my friends. - Yes. - Because I've built amazing community there. And I look forward to seeing those people. And I go to spin to challenge myself and to see what's on the other side of that challenge. And then when it comes to home workouts and stuff, like you said, like building mobility strength and all of that, so that I can move my body and do the things that I love without pain and without fear of injury. Because a lot of times when we push ourselves to some degree in the back of your head, when you get older, you're like, "Oh, am I going to get hurt?" Is this too much on myself? When should I slow down? And thankfully, I never really think about that because you're my inspiration. - Exactly. - If anything, I feel like as I've gotten older, the more I slow down the more I hurt. - Yeah. - It's like movement is lubricant for your joints. Otherwise, you just get stiff and achy and you feel like shit all the time. Like I remember recently I was like, "Why am I back in my neck hurt so bad?" And I'm like, "Oh, because I've been sitting "editing for five hours straight." And I haven't even stood up and walked around. And yeah, it's, it takes a lot of mindfulness, but I think knowing that about ourselves is it's super helpful to maintain. - Well, you know, like best or more, her Tuesday walker group. - Yes. - So here she is, training 97. She leads that group. She's had a bunch of women who were in their late 50s, early 60s who dropped out. Could you guys walk too fast? - Dragging behind, yeah. The best is I remember she came up to me once and she was like, I was like, "How's your Tuesday walkers?" And she goes, "Sometimes really annoying." Like the ladies just want to talk and I'm trying to get my steps in. I'm like, I love that for you, Queen. Get your steps in girl. So I want to quickly pivot to the segment that we do here on the show called Dear Athlete. First question is what is one thing you think young people should be doing now to ensure a life of health and wellness? - So I think the first thing, you know, we always talk about how what is wisdom? Wisdom is looking at everything in the light, eternity in the light of the future. So you say, who do I want to be when I'm older? And how do I start today to be that person? - Yeah. - And the number one thing is nutritional. So when I talk to patients, they say, there's two types of foods. There's fuel and there's entertainment. If you're eating something because it's entertainment, go find another entertainment. Go do something else. - That's a solid, that's a solid take. - Yeah, just eat for fuel. - Yeah. - So you're being stupid. - Yeah. - And number two is like, - Thanks, stupid. - We've all been stupid, duh. - But again, like you said, like having a future goal of like, okay, do I want to eat this knowing that it will affect how I feel in the next 30 years? - Yes. - It's a lot easier to make that decision. It makes things very simple, especially when it comes to alcohol. I mean, I'm in my mid to late 20s. And now I think I've noticing there's a massive shift of people who are still in that drinking party phase. And then people who are growing out of it and recognizing, okay, I want to invest in my future self. I notice the very detrimental effects of alcohol. I notice the detrimental effects of smoking and staying up late and not taking care of myself. And again, it's so much simpler to recognize, okay, when I'm 60, I'm gonna be so grateful I made this decision. - Yeah. - Oh, for sure. - Yeah. - Yeah. You know, we used to talk about the French paradox, which means that can people, they look at the French ago, they drink, right, you know, they drink wine. You know, they had, they gave children wine in elementary schools up into like 1965 or something. - That's crazy. - In France. That's crazy. - Yeah, that's crazy. - But, you know, they drink, they cheese, they do this. The French paradox is, how do they stay healthy? - Yeah. - And they say, well, it's 'cause the French wine is, you know, the wine is good for you, blah, blah, blah. - Yeah. - Well, the answer is, no, it's not. - Yeah. - The alcohol's not good for you no matter how it is. But the fact that they had fresh foods, they walked. - Nothing was processed. When you go out, when they go get their baguettes, you notice how they ride their bikes down and get their baguettes every single day, because they don't use any preserve them. 'Cause by day two, it's so hard. It's like the ones that we get, they're so hard you can't even eat 'em. - Yeah. - They're only good for a one day. That's the kind of food you should have. - Yeah. - You shouldn't have something that has a shelf life of eternity. - Yeah. - No, it's bad. - That's bad. - Yeah, that's very true. - And so, that's number one, number two is like you say. So, this is something, so when we had our orthopedic floor at Hogue Hospital, it's on the 10th floor. So, my dad was, when I joined him, he was in his late 60s. There's no way he's ever taken an elevator. Ever. Same thing, he goes, you park as far away as you can. - You climb 10 flights of stairs. - Oh yeah, you park as far away as you can when you go somewhere, you never take an elevator. In other words, you make every part of your day - Active. - An activity. - Yeah. - Exactly. Something that is basically good for you health-wise. - Wait, that's such good advice for anyone that's also not super passionate about working out and stuff. - Yes. - Those little simple changes in your lifestyle could make all the difference. - Yeah. - I love that and it's so easy, it's so simple. Like park, you know, not in the closest spot. - Or maybe not even take the car. - Yeah, walk, see if you can walk, see if you can ride a bike. - Exactly. - Yeah, I do think, unfortunately, with this day and age of everything being so convenient and so easy and always trying to find the easy route, we forget, like no, we can just walk. - Yeah. - We can carry our groceries to the car instead of, you know, pushing the car all the way there. - And don't think of that number of your age. It's like, oh, well, 50-year-olds shouldn't be doing this kind of stuff. No, no, no, no. - If anything, they should be doing it more. - Exactly. - Yeah. 'Cause you have to work harder to build your muscle and build your mobility and-- - One thing I tell patients to go for every decade that you're alive, that's how many days of week, days of the week that you need to work out just to stay even. - Wow. - If you're in your 50s, you got to work out five days a week just to stay even. If you want to get better, you got to work out six. - Yeah. - So the point is, is that that basically makes you kind of jump back and go crap. I can't wait till tomorrow to start working on this. - Yeah. - I'll start today. - Yeah. - Future is not tomorrow. Future is this moment because this moment is what makes your future. - Yeah. You're investing, yeah. So true. Okay, second, from a doctor's perspective, what's something you think every athlete should do to prevent injury? Just one thing. - One thing, I think stretching is underrated. - Oh my gosh, 100% could not agree more. Stretching is so underrated. - I have so many of my friends, they sit there, we're gonna go play volleyball or whatever. And I stretch like each hamstring for like four to five minutes before I even go out and they're like, come on, let's go. I'm like, no, no, God, you're my stretching. - Yeah. - And guess what, I don't get hurt. - Yeah, I stretch before and after every workout. - Yeah. - I stay after extra long from like spin and all that 'cause I know I'm gonna get in my car and drive for 15 minutes and then my body's gonna get cold. And I'm a big firm believer too. And like when your body's warm, that is the optimal time to stretch. - Yes. - If you have a workout, let's say you go for a run for two miles, whatever. That time after is like golden time to stretch. - And stretching, shit. - Your muscles are activated, your muscles are warm. It is the best time to gain mobility and flexibility. - Yeah, and kind of stretch in kind of the zen way. It's not hurting. - Breathe into it. - Breathe into it, you're feeling those muscles. A lot of times I'll even put my hands behind my hamstrings and I will feel which chord feels tight. And I kind of push it on like a guitar string. - Yeah. - So that one gets a little bit more work than the other one. So as I'm doing that, and then I kind of believe in that 10% rule, which is I finished playing volleyball with my buddies, we just play for three hours. I go over and I do my 20 pull ups. And then I do my 40 push ups. And I come back and do 20 chin ups. And then I'll go do my sit ups. And like they all leave and go home. But by me doing that afterwards, what allows me to continue to play at the level I want to play and keep going 'cause it's that 10%. You just want to keep doing that last little bit. - Yeah, and you know good and well of it. If you can't play at the level that you want to play at, there is going to be a fit. - Yes. (laughing) - A tantrum will be had. - Even with my friend Tim put it most succinctly, which is we'll have bad days as he puts it goes. We'll have our turn in the barrel. (laughing) - That's so funny. All right, last question. What's the biggest lesson over the last 30 years of your career that you think has set you up for success? - Don't rest on your laurels. Don't be complacent. And whether it's athletically, but I think it's also surgically. Like for example, what I learned as a resident is not what I do now in surgery. I've basically continued to adapt, evolve. If there's new procedures, I'm learning 'em. - Yeah. - I'm not sitting there and just going, you know, I don't need to learn that 'cause I'm at ex-age. - Yeah. - No, the answer is learn it. - Well, technology is constantly evolving. - Ponsibly evolving. - You have to keep up. - Get good at it. - Yeah. - And when I first started practice, and I even do it now, even if I knew how to do a surgery, let's just call it hip replacement. This was like 30 plus years ago or whatever. - Yeah. - I would call who I thought was the best hip replacement specialist in the greater LA area and go, hey, Dr. Dorck, can you do, I have a patient I want to do surgery, but I'd love to come up and watch you. And every single time they're like, sure. - Yeah. - If you want, you can scrub in. So I would literally get like many fellowships for years. - Wow. - On all the new procedures, I flew to, you know, down to New Orleans. I flew to Louisiana. I flew to New York. I flew just to-- - Texas. - Yeah. - I remember several times. I flew to Colorado and I would take, I'd find out who was the best in the country. I'd send my patient there and I'd go there and you'd either watch or help. And I'm a quick study. And I already knew 90% of how to do the procedure. I wanted that last 10%. I wanted to see the little tricks that they would do, how they'd move their hands. - Well, being a visual learner too, yeah, 'cause they can tell you stuff on the phone, but to be able to see it in real time, to see how they figure things out on the fly is so beneficial. So you basically just go shadow when you've already been in the practice for more than 20 plus years. - And since you've done that, you pick it up way faster. But even on the phone one time, I called a friend of mine at Germany who was doing procedure only people in Germany were doing. And he literally talked me through it for about an hour and I've done hundreds of them since then. - Wow. - And it's this complicated way of reshaping what's called a Troplia and the knee and things like that. But there was no one I could send it to. - Yeah. - And it needed to be done. - That's crazy. - But I think that's the thing. And no matter what business you're in, you just-- - There's always more to learn. - There's so much more to learn. - Yeah. There's always more to learn. - And you can't be afraid. - Yeah. - You just have to be-- - Check your ego at the door. Recognize there's always more to learn and be willing to be wrong. - Yes. - So you can continue. - Yeah. Well, I'm so glad we got to chat. - Happy Father's Day. - Yes. - I didn't even see that. That's why we're doing this today. It's so special we get to celebrate Father's Day together. We're gonna go play Beach volleyball after this. We've got some buddies waiting on us. - Perfect. - So we gotta wrap this up. But I love you. - I love you too. - And I really appreciate you taking it a time. Proud of you. Proud of us. (laughing) All right, you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in and I'll see you next Wednesday. Bye. - Bye. (upbeat music)