GOvember // Hans' Journey

[MUSIC] >> Well, welcome again to the crew and Utah podcast, a place to explore the intersection of faith, spirituality, Christianity, and being a college student in Utah. I am your host, Devon Ryak, and this week, I'm excited for us to continue on our series, GoVembers, all about missions, talking about different opportunities and with different people who have spent time as students on the mission field for a summer or a year. I'm excited this week to have another veteran of global missions, Hans Liu. I've invited him on to give a bit of first-person experience from his time spent in East Asia. So welcome to the program, Hans. >> Thanks, Devon, it's good to be here. Thanks for having me. >> Yes, so I love having good friends on, of course, it makes it hard to fit into our time window, but I'm glad to have you here, because there's so many things that we could chase down and talk about here. But Hans, introduce yourself, please, to our audience, give what I've been calling kind of the standard college questions. Where are you from? What school did you go to? What you study, just give us a little bit of a bio. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah, so I'm originally from the Bronx of St. Louis, which is actually not the Bronx group, in the suburbs of Chesterfield, Missouri. And yeah, I moved to Idaho when I was 10. And that was quite a big shift. >> Yeah, exactly. >> From a pretty diverse place to Idaho, where my school was 80% predominantly LDS. And I was like the only Asian-American, and one of the few Protestant Christians in my school. So growing up, I just had to learn how to be a minority and how to embrace it. And there was constant struggles between wanting to assimilate to majority culture and wanting to maintain my unique identity. And so yeah, I went to school, throughout high school, 10 to 18 in Pogotello. Then I came to the U for school, for my undergraduate from 2015 to 2019. And when I got to the U, I, everyone was telling me how important it would be to find a Christian community in college. And so I just Googled Christian clubs, University Utah. And crew was the first thing that popped up. I learned a little bit about them from their website, but then I went to the Plaza Fest. I met Nate Tunnel, Devon's former co-worker and co-director. And we just connected and got lunch. He began discipling me. And that's where it all started with crew. Nice, nice. Yes, back in the days when we could have Plaza Fest, which if you're a freshman listening to this, even if you're at the U, which I know a lot of our listeners are not, but even if you're at the U, you're like, what is a Plaza Fest? Well, Lord willing, you'll be able to find out next fall. Amen. Amen to that. A little of the different student groups are out on the Plaza or Plaza in front of the student union. And it's one big fair of involvement. So I appreciate you sharing a little bit too, about just that your first, in a sense, cross-cultural experience being very personal, just moving. I know for many students or for some, at least, summer mission could be the first cross-cultural experience they have on a deep, on a very profound level. For you, this has been something you've been navigating quite a long time. You're an expert at it in many ways. So-- Yeah, I'm not sure about an expert, but we've been around the block with being the one minority in the room in different ways. Yeah. So in Homs, did you say this, where do you go to church here in Salt Lake? I go to Missio Day Community Church in Salt Lake, close to the west side, close to downtown. And yeah, I've been there about three years and it's been a great church home for me. Good, yeah, yeah. Maybe you could give us a little bit. That's kind of your broad, biographical journey. That's, well, if you can say this, that's who Homs is. I don't know, that's the tip of the iceberg. But talk about your journey into missions 'cause I know that, you know, so I'm having Homs on in part because he spent a year in East Asia. And I'd love to have you share a little bit about that. But I know that wasn't your first time really entering into kind of a formal mission experience. Like-- Absolutely. What was your journey with the Lord in towards that point? Yeah. Well, you know, I think God was crafting this heart for global missions before I even-- before I knew and before I existed because if you can't see me right now, I am Chinese American. So my parents immigrated from China during college and overcame a lot of adversity to come here, provide a better life for me and my sister. But, you know, growing up, I went to China every couple years with parents and for context, my dad grew up in a really poor rural village. And I just remember every time being overwhelmed by the love of the villagers who had nothing. But they would willingly offer us all of the food that they had grown, all of the crops. And we had to tell them, you know, no, they-- like, sorry, we already ate because they would just literally make us eat them out of house and home. They were so sweet and loving. But I just remember my faith as a kid was not very strong. I think I did believe in God, but I don't know if I really knew Jesus personally. And so what really happened was once I became a believer freshman year of high school, I started like developing a love for the word. And, you know, it no longer was me listening to pastor's talk in church only, but just like digging into the word and just enjoying it on my own. And as I enjoyed the word more and more, old testament and new, I discovered that the call to the great commission was so clear in the Bible. And some verses that stuck out to me as a baby Christian was Matthew 9.37. Then he said to his disciples, Jesus speaking, the harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few, therefore, pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest. And then particularly when I started doing some short term missions in high school, we did one to like a Navajo Native American reservation in Arizona. And Isaiah 6, 8 stuck out to me then where he says, and I heard the voice of the Lord saying, whom shall I send and who will go for us? Then I said, here I am, send me. So I think God just honestly just used the word to create that desire for missions and then help me understand the need for it. And then even little things like sharing the gospel with some friends in high school, I enjoyed it. And God, I saw that it was God that was speaking and not me. I remember freshman year as a baby Christian, my friend, who was Filipino-American. So he was literally the only other Asian-American in my entire high school. That's almost not an exaggeration. I shared the gospel with him and him coming from just a cultural Catholic background and just seeing the way he responded and embraced Jesus in a way was just humbling because I knew I had nothing to do with it. That was the Holy Spirit. That was God doing His work. So that's how it started. But then in college, I did some short term mission trips, like crew spring break trips. We had big break LA and crew really helped to train and equip me to learn how to be bold in sharing my faith to ask hard spiritual questions. And then to enjoy it and to recognize that people want to talk about spirituality more than they let on. Everyone's kind of yearning deep down with that God-shaped hole in their heart. And overcoming that fear was something that crew helped me to do, the fear of man initiating evangelical conversations. But really, when I got to college, during my sophomore year of college, we had a group called the traveling team come in and speak at our crew. weekly meeting. And the traveling team is a group that connects students with different missions opportunities around the globe. And they, you know, just kind of help open my eyes to the practical way that we as students can engage in God's mission work around the globe as students, like even during this school year. And so, you know, what stuck out to me was the East Asian mission trips that they had planned, especially one called Christmas in East Asia. And basically, upon hearing about it, I talked to the person who shared about it. I asked him for more information. And he told me, he challenged me to pray about it every day for, for, you know, at least a week and just see what, what God would do in that time. And this guy was really, yeah, he was really diligent. Like, I've never enjoyed telemarketers and stuff like that. Not that he was a telemarker, but he called me probably like two or three times over the course of one or two weeks. And just like checking in on me, very, very bold, but in a good way, like, just like, hey, Hans, checking in to see if God's, you know, moved your heart in any way towards these missions. And at first, I was like, I'm not sure if I can fit it in. It's over winter break, all that kind of stuff. Everyone wants to like go home and veg out during winter break after finals. But God did move in my heart, thankfully. And I did go on the trip. I signed up for the next year that you could go, which is my junior year. And I loved it. Despite all of, there were many obstacles that happened. Like, it was not with crew, this mission trip, but the organization that did host this trip, you know, somehow didn't receive my passport info and all that stuff that I sent them and had, you know, a classic, right? So what that means, guys, is that I did not, my team leaders in East Asia did not know that I was even existed as a person or that I was on their mission team until I got there at the airport and called them. They're like, what the heck? We have a 12th person. So huge miscommunication. I did not hear that story. I didn't realize that. Yeah, it was horrible. I won't say the name of the organization because I respect them a lot. But at the end of the day, you know, it was an incredible trip. Despite the struggles getting there, like God knew what would happen. He knew how to get me to East Asia. And I loved it. I loved my team that I served with. I love the college students art. It was very similar to every, you know, the work that crew does around the globe. It was just meeting with college students, initiating, building relationship and then sharing the gospel, asking spiritual questions and sharing the love of Jesus with them. Very sweet and simple and direct. And it was like, honestly, one of the best two weeks of my life, like literally a taste of heaven on earth. Like I didn't miss video games and Netflix at all during, and I feel like I thought I would, but I didn't, you know, it was just a great time. Very fill filling time. Like, you know, these students were taking us to their favorite cultural hotspots, favorite landmarks, their favorite place to eat and curious to hear the gospel. And I'll just share briefly the best moment was meeting with a group of like five or six guys that we met playing basketball. And we took them to dinner. So there was like 10 of us total, 10 or 11 of us at one big, big round table. And, you know, we're all having spiritual conversations. We're all talking to the person on our left or right about Jesus. And then I like halfway through, I look up and I just start listening. And every single person is at the table is having a gospel conversation individually. You know, I just looked up and I was like, wow, this is, this is beautiful. This is not of us. This is something God created and something this Holy Spirit is right here and he's working. And those students ended up being great friends. And, you know, we did some follow up seeker studies with them. And then when we left, we passed them on to the long term missions team there in East Asia. Yeah. So that was the big start, you know. Well, and I love some of those stories. It makes me so many things I'd love to jump in on here. We don't have time for, but I just think as you're talking, anybody who's spent time overseas, whether they make it their vocation as I have or not, if you've been overseas on mission, it's listening to Hans right now is awakening memories, experiences from your own time. There's just something so cool that happens when you step out in faith, you describe heaven on earth and it's like, well, why is it heaven on earth? Is it because it's objectively better over there? Well, no, there's good and bad in every country and you know, but there's something to you're just more dependent on the Lord for the season. And and you describe talking with folks, you know, students at restaurants and there's, you mentioned that kind of great picture, which I've spent time in East Asia. So I have this picture in my mind of a restaurant. I always had no idea if yours looked the same or not, but in all these spiritual conversations happening and something about being overseas or I'll even say anywhere really on cross-cultural mission, even domestically, you know intellectually that God's kingdom is big, you know, intellectually that it is a global movement, right? But there's something about just experiencing that and seeing like, oh no, this Christian thing, this following Jesus thing is, it really is going global, has been global for quite some time actually. And there's just something really cool about being a part of that, you know, getting to see it in the flesh, so to speak. So amen. Well, so I'll I'll catch you up a little bit on Hans and Hans's journey from there, just because I know you went on stint and I'd love to ask a little bit more about East Asia, if I want our audience to know what is a stint? Well, it stands for, you can really think of it as two ways, short term international or short term internship, both work or short term international internship. But you do that. It's comes kind of usually at the end of college before you get out into your career or graduate work, but you could put it in different places. It's kind of nine to 12 months overseas locations around the world of really engaging in campus ministry as a paid minister for that time. And you you are going out and meeting people and leading them to the Lord and building a movement just like you've seen on your campus here, Utah or wherever you're listening. You're seeing the same thing happen around the world, often coming under local leadership. Sometimes you're sometimes not, sometimes you're the first crew person there. Sometimes you're coming under what's already happening in that country, but, but you're helping move the gospel forward. So, so Hans, you did that in just this last year. So, will that be 2019 through 2020? Yeah. What a year to be overseas. Right. Yeah. Quite the year. And I would just love to know, what was your decision process like ongoing on stint? And I want to say this before you answer whether I'm assuming most folks are probably considering more summer mission. Yeah. I hope some are considering stint. And I think in any of these cases, there is just kind of this process before the Lord of like, what's what's he calling me to do? So, what was that? You know, what were some of the concerns? What were the some of the reasons that might have held you back? Well, why did you ultimately decide to to step into that? Yeah. Absolutely. Well, I would say, even though I technically never went on an official summer mission, I would say the process of how the Lord brings you to that decision to go on mission is similar. And, you know, for for me, I, I, I, I'm minored in Chinese. So, I, I did have to finish my major, my minor, I studied a broad in East Asia for, for a summer semester before my senior year. And it was, you know, really in that time, you know, everyone in college talks about like, oh, how fun a study abroad is and like, all the cool people meet you meet, the cool experiences, the traveling. And I'm not saying it wasn't enjoyable, but all, all say is that, you know, like, I felt like something was really missing from that study abroad because like, I was meeting some cool Chinese students, but for the most part, all of, all of the Americans stuck together, all of the, you know, Korean stuck together, like, it was just a lot harder to meet Chinese students to like engage in deep meaningful conversations just on a regular study abroad there. And I really missed that because I'd been on short-term mission trips before. And I, I really just wanted to engage with the hearts of the people I was studying next to a lot more than I was allowed to on study, on a regular study abroad. So that kind of helped cement the decision for me. And, you know, for context, I would say, I always like was a pretty career oriented student in college like I wanted to go to law school right after graduating I wanted to you know be a defense lawyer which which I still am looking to be on the path towards doing but I just wanted to rush into grad school right and and the only explanation for me going on stint was the the work of the Lord softening my heart recognizing that I was going to be a teacher. But really the year after the year or the two years after college are some of the best. One of the few times in your life where you can spend a year or two of your life a broad serving God in a foreign country like that just doesn't happen like you know for in my example like once I went to law school I'm I'm grindin for three years. And then I graduated I got the pressure of finding a job and competing in the job market but those one of two years after you graduate are so key because you have so much freedom. And then I really just made that clear to me through all these trips that he wanted me to serve he was calling me to serve he'd equip me to serve students in East Asia and to hunger for them to to know the Lord. So that was kind of part of the decision making process but if if it's if it's relevant I could also share about the things that almost kept me from going to. I would love that I absolutely would love that because we want to be honest here too about you live in a real world with real trade offs so please. Absolutely what did almost keep you from going. Yeah you know I think number one was my health concerns because yeah just to keep it brief I have like irritable bowel syndrome IBS and something called seabull small intestinal bacterial overgrowth and it just. It really hurts your quality of life like every day not sleeping well inflamed can't eat majority of foods other people can eat so this is a very natural huge concern for me and deciding to whether or not to go on stand that's a year of my life in East Asia in a country where I'm being I'm having to eat all these new foods and can't control my diet with these GI issues. But you know don't walk into a restaurant there is it's not as often that there's a many different parts to the menu exactly like the gluten free part. Yeah that's right 99% of them didn't know what gluten was you know and I'm gluten intolerant but. Yep quite quite a tricky thing but there's ways around it. There's ways around it and the biggest thing was like I want to crew conference in San Francisco my senior year and that was my only concern that was what was. Stopping me from submitting that application and because I think I had started my state application at that point and you know basically I there was a point in the conference where after someone spoke. You could go up and ask for prayer and I asked the guy for prayer a crew staff from from Washington. And and you know me a complete stranger he just prayed over me and I think the spirit really worked through him to speak wisdom and truth and assurance of God's provision over my. Fearful concerns of my health I expressed him like hey I B.S. I don't know if I can do this physically and he just you know spoke over me the fact that God is sovereign like not if God wants me on mission nothing's going to stop me from being on mission not health not fear of man's approval not financial concerns like God will make it happen and he's going to he's going to provide a way. And so that honestly just that time and prayer really spoke to me but going back and spending time in the word and prayer myself God just cemented that decision further and and I ended up going and and never regretted it. That's great. Additionally I'd say that the other concern for me going to East Asia was concern over my parents approval and my family and how they feel about me going a mission which for many of you if your students looking to do a summer project vision trip stint that might be a relatable concern. And it is it is a difficult thing when you're you know it doesn't matter whether or not your parents know Jesus or not at any point that your your son or daughter is going overseas for an extended period of time you're going to have some anxiety and apprehension as a parent. So you know my father doesn't doesn't walk with Jesus and it was especially difficult for him to understand why I was going to stint and and his in his eyes like wasting this year of my life but in my eyes it was literally the best way I could spend any year of my life. But what I really learned from this and and this was I had people help walk me through this process so if you do decide to stint or go on some mission there crew has great people who've dealt with. You know the concerns of families to walk you through things like this but a guy named Jonathan Givo on staff really helped me because he just he just prayed for me and explained how I could empathize with my parents how I could understand things from their perspective like this is a tough thing to send your allow your son to go overseas and then how I could engage with them in love and just explaining to them not an anger not in defensiveness or annoyance. But saying like hey like I love you guys so grateful for your like care and support I know you want the best for me but like my relationship with God has changed my life in that this is where he's called me and I respect you guys but I really believe that this is where I need to be for the next year. Just kind of communicating in love while also validating the parents concerns and and you know just empathizing with them really did help and so for me my dad was adamantly opposed adamantly opposed after I'd already gotten back from my stint briefing in California during graduation my parents came over and I had my orientation packet from crew that explains like how to raise support. I had to raise support for for stinting and what what the stint year might look like a little bit and so I was like hey dad I'm going to take a shower. And please read skim through this booklet and and I went in the shower I prayed for him earnestly I prayed that the Holy Spirit would soften his heart that he would be willing to accept my decision and and you know just trying to pray and faith and I came out and he said you know us I think you know there are better things you could do with your life but I guess if you do this is okay you know so I'm going to do this. You know so that was pretty cool like that's like it's hard to understate guys how much of a change that was like he was like adamantly opposed adamantly opposed you're wasting your year you're wasting your year to like okay I guess I guess you can do this you know he'll take it. Yeah so that's like you got to you know just trust the spirit bring other people into it like if you if anyone is listening and is concerned about what their parents will think you know pray about it read the word pray for your parents trust that God knows them and loves them more than you can and then bring other people and talk to talk to some staff members about how to go about that situation. Yeah thank you for sharing that and it is such a balance we are called honor father and mother and I think at times we can go too far into a ditch of away from that exactly and on the other side we're called to follow where the Lord's leading us yeah it's it's an interesting tension but I will encourage folks listening out there if you can identify with what Hans just shared. Whether it's summer missions stand or just God getting a hold of your life in college maybe you're maybe you've been a Christian while maybe your brand new but you're you know you're outwardly looking more and more like Jesus God uses that. And in the life of your parents but it's a slow burn sometimes that's so true and just to add to that point like despite all my parents reluctance like support raising and going on stint I'd actually say it brought me closer to my parents much more than I'd expect because I mean my dad the one who was so opposed actually ended up providing great references of like even though he's not a Christian he didn't know. He's not a Christian he knew some great Christian families who actually ended up being supporters like they prayed for me and financially supported me during my year stinting in East Asia so. and just like talk to you. with them, trying to be more intentional, trying to empathize with them. And it brought us closer even though they didn't want me to go on stand in the first place. So there's hope for everyone. So Hans, you've been home since spring. You came home early because of COVID. So it's been a little bit of time, but I'd love to just hear from you. What do you miss most about your time in East Asia? Absolutely. You know what? I think I missed the the sense of purpose that you wake up with every morning. Like, Stin is many things. It's challenging, it's humbling. There's there can be conflict on the team. There can be hard things. There can be sickness. But one thing is it's not, is it's not boring. I don't know if I was to ever board once on Stin, to be honest, because it's such a spirit-filled adrenaline-filled engaging spiritual adventure, because you're out there in a foreign country. You're not great at the language. People are praying for you and supporting you so that you are sharing the gospel and boldness to the students who've never even heard of Jesus's name before. And you know what I experienced with that was it's you wake up every morning, even if you're tired, even if you're frustrated, and you have a sense of purpose because you know you're exactly where God put you. If God didn't want you there, He most likely wouldn't have helped you raise the incredible amount of support it takes to go on Stin. You know and you just yeah you feel like you're living the purpose of your own life. You're living out the great commission. You're doing exactly what God's called you to do. That helps you get through so much on Stin. And it's fun. It's engaging. There's never a moment where you're bored. So I miss that sense of engagement, the constant stimulation of meeting new people, taking bold steps of faith, like talking to students about Jesus. And I miss the I loved our outreach activity. So I miss just like being able to engage large groups of students at once and like see the face, watch the faces of students as they like watch the Jesus film, which is a 1979 film about Jesus's life in resurrection. And it's cool to see the faces of people who've been touched by Jesus for the first time. It's probably what I miss the most. Well on that note Hans, we will end our time here. And I'm so thankful for you joining us this week and sharing your journey, your experience. It's just an honor to have you on it. Honored to have for me personally, I know this isn't true for O listeners, but to have been along the ride a little bit on some of what you shared through your college years and then watching you get ready for stints going now home and asking others to consider the same. So thank you very much, Hans. Yeah, thank you, Devin. Well friends, it's not necessarily easy to step out in faith to pursue spending a summer in full-time missions work. But the rewards are worth it, particularly if God is putting it on your heart or for spending a year as we just talked about with Hans. Our missions required by God to be loved by God to experience him. Now, it may sound rhetorical, but absolutely not. I think even if we know the answer, sometimes our hearts can feel differently. The chief end of man, I love this, is to glorify God by enjoying him forever. And that's our role is to enjoy God. But could it be that if you feel excited about some of the opportunities you're hearing, you might actually be a really great fit for one of these options that part of your enjoyment of God and worship of him could be summer mission, could be stint. Sometimes I think we're a little afraid to admit it, that actually this sounds like something I might want to do, not because I owe it to God or anything like that, but simply because it actually sounds yes scary and yes challenging, but also kind of fun. So if you're feeling that way, or there's just kind of some spark of excitement about some of these prospects and opportunities, just encourage you look into them further, talk with friends, family, get input, talk with your staff. Just I know sometimes it's like you don't want to open your mouth to say that you're considering it because well then, well who knows then I might have to go. Well, just start talking about it, pray about it. See where the Lord leads. We do also have state side opportunities, which you'll be getting to hear more info about in the coming weeks. I want to thank you for joining us this week. If you find this helpful and useful in your spiritual life, please consider sharing it with those around you. I was thinking on social media, I suppose you could just tell them about it too if anybody does that anymore. Either way, but in any case, this has been the Utah crew podcast, which is a production of crew in Salt Lake City and Utah. I particularly want to thank this week our producer Drew Meyer, who does a lot of work editing this, getting it up online. Thank you very much, Drew. For more information and for ways to get plugged in in person or via Zoom online, as if you're in Utah, I know we're moving closer and closer to quarantine here. But in either case, we would love to have you get involved if you've heard this and you want to get more information on interacting with others on campus. Visit crewslc.com @crewslc on Instagram. And if you're in Utah Valley, at UBU Crew on Insta. Thank you friends. [Music]