14. Gotham's Robin Lord Taylor "I Learned To Love Auditioning"

[Music] I'm Tommy Beardmore, I'm Adam DeCarlo, and welcome to Before the Break, a podcast for actors by actors. Brought to you by Bookit. [Music] And you can curse, Robin. Bye, all of me. Oh, yeah. [Laughter] Alrighty, hello, hello, hello. Welcome back to another episode. Before the break this week, we're just going to jump right on in. This week we are joined by a very special guest. You've seen him in such films as Accepted. Would you rather, in John Wick 3, on TV, he's appeared on Law and Order. The Walking Dead, you, Gotham, and the upcoming AMC series, Kevin can fuck himself. Please welcome the incredibly kind and talented Robin Lord Taylor. Hi guys, what's up? Hi, Robin. Thanks for being here. First of all, did we put, did I hear skeletons in there? Did that come up from our playlist there? We made a lot of jump right to the end. You've seen him in skeletons and that just mentioned like any, yeah, Lawston found are the two projects that he's most known for. [Laughter] No, I know, I know. We'll get to that later when we go to the plug sack. Right, exactly. Welcome Robin. Hi, how are you? I'm fantastic. I mean, after this fucking year, I mean, I don't know. You guys, actually, no, Tommy, you used to live in New York, yes? I moved January, late January, crazy. Before anyone moving, it's like, exactly. I was just texting my buddy Rodney who can't make it to like, one of our like, engagement parties because we know that half of the people aren't going to be able to make it and I'm like, I'm so sorry for leaving New York because anybody think during COVID, there was no good buys, there was no stallion, see a later, like one last place at the, one last dinner at the pizza place or like whatever, it was just like, later, it was so sad to move, but I'm so happy in LA. It's wonderful. Are you, you're in New York, right? I'm in New York. I'm in New York. This is my, it about to be 21st year in New York City, which is very exciting. But yeah, that was going to say, I mean, Adam, you're here, you're in New York. I mean, you see that just the city is coming back to life in the most glorious way and I was like, I, you know, I saw friends this weekend and went out to restaurants. Say, Liam, and you're just like, oh, we're back. Feels like a better. Yeah, but it was also like, I was saying to my husband, Dickie, I was just like, you know, there's a tangible sense of happiness and positivity in the city right now, which is just so beautiful. Like it just really, you know, it's just amazing. Everyone is just so like excited to see each other. I think it's because we are all connected globally in the one, the one thing that's been on our minds as a, as a, as a population, the one thing, almost like war, you know, we're at the end of it. Everybody is in the same page. We want the same things. We experience the same things now. We're getting to experience this freeing feeling of having a fucking cup of coffee while I walk the dog outside. Absolutely. No, and we were saying too, we were saying too, just like, just seeing strangers faces. Like just seeing, like just seeing the full face, you know, and again, just, since this is about what we do for a living, I mean, it's just, I felt so cut off from everyone. And like also, it's hard to be really as an actor. It's hard for me, at least to be very inspired when I'm not out in it and seeing just people interacting and doing their thing. I mean, it's like, you know, New York is my inspiration as an actor, like being in this city and seeing the people and just, you know, being part of this community is, you know, such a huge part of, you know, my craft. And so like, you know, again, it was just like this week, it was just, you know, it's emotional because it's like, "Oh, God, I missed this. I missed this so much. I didn't know I missed it as much as I did." So anyway. Maybe we needed something like this to just remind ourselves just how wonderful it is to connect with people and to be able to just walk outside or go some place, or just to be grateful to be going to a restaurant. When have we ever been grateful to just go to a restaurant? You know, those little things that have to come out of something that we were kept from person. Totally. And there's so many connections here too in the sense of like, in our industry, for example, it's like, you know, shitty behavior isn't tolerated the way it has been for many long, far too many years. And I think like, part of also just getting back into the community, it's like taught us that like, being kind and being present and being there with people, you know, as much as you can, it's just so so important. It's another lesson that I think we're all learning too. Anyway. Well said. So Robin, thank you so much for joining us today. We are going to get so much from this. But let's start at the beginning. You're a Midwest guy. You were born, I believe Iowa, right? Yep. Yep. Born and raised in the island, Eastern Iowa. Yeah. Well, I went to grew up in a, well, grew up outside the town in the country. But went to a very small, went to high school in a very small town. I think our graduate class had less than 80 people. Same. Same. And it was Robin. It was actually less. It was 50. It was 52. Totally. Where was that? Lafayette Indiana. Oh, yeah. Okay. So were you in public? Private school. What was it? Public public school. Public school. Yeah. A few A, I think at the time, you know, it was, you know, very Friday night lights. Very, very that. And did, did Robin want to be an actor way, way, way back when or was this something kind of after you moved away, you wanted to do? Not specifically acting at the beginning. It was just more like, I knew that I always, I always like talk. I was like communicating with people. And I always liked, you know, connecting with people ever since I was little. You know, like I remember, I don't know, I was less than 10. I, you know, I was obsessed with answering this is back in the day. When, you know, there was the house phone. I was obsessed with answering the phone. Like I went, when the phone rang and people ran to it. Yes, absolutely. When the people with the twirly cord on the wall and totally absolutely. You're, you know, yep, absolutely. And so I would, I would, I was obsessed with answering the phone. And I remember my, my aunt's, Georgia. Relaying this to my mom and my mom telling me like, she said something like, you know, when I talked to Robin on the phone, I can hear his smile. She would say like, it's just, and she was just a very beautiful sentiment. And I remember that so clearly. And like, so I think that's kind of what, you know, and I didn't know if that was to be an acting thing or if that was just, you know, it, you know, I didn't know. But you know that that was rare? Did you know that that was like kids weren't, I was the same thing. I would, I would see my mother like my, my aunts and give them kisses on the cheek because like that's what I want to do. I want to embrace them and, you know, or like answering the phone or being that like very personable, very approachable even at an early age. Did you see that that was kind of a rare thing? Yeah, I guess. I mean, like, you know, I, you know, I, I also, I think I was, my dad was a very, very charming. Shhh, kind of like not, like not schmoozy, but like, you know, like he, he was very charming and knew how to engage and he had like a twinkle in his eye and he had, he could hear his emotion in his voice, even though he was a very mathematical person. He was still very animated like, character, like just, you know, and so, I, and a very, and also a very effective communicator. And so I think part of it too was just like idolizing that in my father and wanting, like, being like, oh, I like, like wanting that, you know, something that I would do, you know, like, yeah, so, I don't know. And, and, and, and how was, how was the environment there? Knowing that you kind of were sort of figuring your stuff out in high school and as you were going to college, you did go to college at Northwestern, I believe in the Midwest. That was Northwestern, yeah. And Cindy Illinois. So how was that kind of, when you were still stuck in that town and kind of with aspirations, was it difficult or did they give you the tools to have a proper outlet and to get yourself ready for college? It was challenging in a lot of ways. I mean, we're talking this back in the early to mid 90s in small town islands, very different time. And just a very, you know, and again, like I said, it's Friday nightlights. It wasn't a very artistic school. Like, they didn't have a lot of programs. I mean, we had a theater partner who did two plays a year. I jumped right into that. I, you know, I was a, you know, a closeted kid in the Midwest. And so like, I was very, I was also very, I was afraid for my well-being a lot of times. And so I knew that like, you know, like I was saying, like as a kid, I had this like, you know, desire to like, you know, like talk and like, you know, connect. But as I got older, and especially as I started to deal with my sexuality internally, I was really, I was, I was, I hid, like I was hiding myself for many, for several of those years just because I was afraid of drawing attention and possibly getting bullied or, you know, physically hard, you know, like it wasn't unheard of. So, so anyway, so, so I was kind of hiding. And then of course, that's just first I hate to even grow like that's a thing. Like that's a thing that's that people experienced even in the last 30 years. I mean, because my I've got two, three siblings who are in high school or just had gotten out of three siblings under 20. And they say that the things that have changed now, oh my god, we've mentioned this before because of Glee and because of social change and because of all these little things that happen, where now the environment and the experience of high school, it's almost like when I went to high school, the bullies were the the popular kids and now it's like if you were to bully, you'd be like, excuse me, hold on everybody, did you just say something against gay people? Like you're just, you would be an outcast, right? And how different that must be for for kids now, you know, 25 years ago, you were afraid to be who you are because of your for your for your life. And now it's like, no, you know, you're just yourself. That's just a thing that happens now. Everybody's just themselves and they're celebrated. Totally. And we're, I mean, we're definitely, I mean, we're very far much advanced from when I was there, but to also say that I know that there's still a huge problem. Right. You know, as I'll know, this suicide rate is among LGBTQI kids are astronomically high, way too high, just like heart, horrifically high. So by any way, like these conversations that we're having right now, I always feel like it's just we're fucking chipping away at that fucking thing. Every time we talk about it, every time I get to say that I'm a proud gay man, and I experience this in my childhood, like we're just fucking chipping away at that fucking iceberg. It's really, really big. It's really fucking, you know, so, but you know, every like, yeah. Anyway, okay, so let's let's go to college. What happened in college? What took you there? What did you do there to get you ready for four years later? Okay, so well, I, yeah, I mean, I guess I always knew I wanted to go to Northwestern. Like my family, we, you know, we were only about four hours away from Chicago. So we go to Chicago all the time. And that's also to say, I'm very fortunate that especially as an actor, my parents took me to musicals and plays. You know, they took us to Chicago to see every big thing that came through town. So, you know, like I say, like, oh, a little tiny farm town, but I was very lucky in that my parents really made a point of like, you know, exposing us to theater and to music and to arts and all of those amazing things. Amazing. So yeah, so yeah. So since going to Chicago, I remember like one of our very like, who was like way back in the 80s and I was a kid and we're all in Chicago and my parents were like, we're going to rent a limousine and we're going to take a little tour up the, the, I miss you now, and you know, like, you know, go all the way up to Edinson and come to whatever. And we were driving up and I remember the driver was like, who's like, oh, that's Northwestern. It's a really good school. You really want to go there. And I was like, I'm going to go there. I don't know why I was like, I was like, I'm going to go there. That limo driver is just just hired by Northwestern to just get people into the, you really want to go there. It's a great school. I got you. Yeah, exactly right. Got you another one. This one's a good one. Yeah, it's yeah. So anyway, that's so you knew it in early age. You almost were like, okay, that's, this is my New York at the Midwest. This is, this is a big, a big city closest to me. Totally. I know I always knew that I wanted to move to big city. Like I know I wanted that. I knew I was, I always knew from a young age that I was going to live in New York. Like I, you know, my parents brought me here from like my eighth birthday and I was like, I'm going to live there. So it's a very weird thing. Like I don't know if like, yeah, I, it's so it was similar to Northwestern. Like I want to go to that school and I, you know, I applied early decision and Northwestern makes you declare a major when you, when you apply so that they can sort you into the different schools. So like, you know, there's the college of arts and sciences which saw like the like English and language and you know, all that stuff, philosophy, etc. And then there's the school of speech which they're a little different at Northwestern. So like the, the, I actually have the best ways of science in theater. So I, so yeah, because the school of speech is a science school, but that's where the theater department is. So yeah. And so anyway, so I, when I was applying, I was like, I don't know what I want to do, but I'm going to put down theater. We'll see what happens, you know, because yeah, yeah, I mean, I knew I loved theater. It was really important to me in high school, but you know, also it's like I'm coming from Solan Iowa to Northwestern where they're kids who go to like LaGuardia and Stivocen. You know, these big, these big, these big schools hearing you performing arts schools. Performing arts schools with huge budgets for plays and, you know, beyond anything we could have imagined at my high school. So anyway, like part of it too was just like, I don't know if I'm good enough, you know, like I don't know, you know, I would love to, but I don't, yeah, you know, I don't know yet. It was the best, again, it was just it turned out to be the best decision I ever made. Like I landed at Northwestern and the program really suited me. And on, I loved that we didn't jump right into an acting class. You wait until sophomore year to start an acting class and then you keep that class and that teacher unless something happens and you want to transfer, you, you're the intention is to keep you in that class with that teacher for the sophomore, junior, senior year until graduation. And so freshman year, because again, it's not a conservatory program, freshman year is more like, you know, it's like teaching you basics. You have like crew requirements that you have to do. Um, you know, like performance theory, you know, it's like a lot of like more of the, lay in the groundwork first, lay in the ground and then you get to jump into pretty tip. Like I'll, like, I'll, I'll, I'll walk before you can crawl, right? Got to crawl before you walk. Something. Got to vomit before you. I do for you digest that. No, or something. Yeah. So, uh, so yeah, so we, so it was great. I know, I, I, I loved my, I, um, transferred into a different, I had a, I was in one class, wasn't going quite where I wanted it to just, you know, and then so I transferred into another class with the amazing end woodwork. It was my, it was my teacher. Nice. And she, she, um, she just, she also, she taught me the discipline of, of acting. And she taught me that like, you know, I, it's not enough to be the precocious, smiley kid who wants to talk on the phone all the time, you know what I mean? Like, it's not enough. Like there's, you can't, like, you know, we're all the three of us here. You know, put us up to get to anybody else. We're like the schmuzias motherfuckers. You can imagine. Like we know how they're like navigate conversations with strangers and like turn it on and just, you know, schmuzepads 2021. But you know, as like what my teacher Anne taught me was that's not enough. Like you can't fake it. This fucking shit. You can't bullshit your way through this. Who are you feeling? And she would be like, who are you? Are you fucking with me? Are you wasting my, are you? You know what this business is, right? Fabricating authenticity. You don't think that we know bullshit? Please. So, so that was invaluable, an invaluable lesson, you know, just, um, just, yeah, the real, the real discipline of acting. What do you know that it is work? It is, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a pursuit that you can't fake it and also it's fake. Like you said, yeah, it's, it is totally fake, but you have to be as authentically fake as possible. Like what is that? But I've seen, we see a lot of actors coming. They're great actors, but that's all they are is a great actor. You have to have something inside that is unique and authentic. No BS and make somebody like willing to, um, want to bring you on. And it's that little, like little nugget in there that you have to, that has to be in your training. It must be in your training. That thing that you, we can't even give it a name because we know what it is. I, for me, that's where the art comes in. Like, you know, like this is, like, I know it sounds pretentious to talk about acting as art, but I believe that when it is connected emotionally and it's not fake, you know what I mean? Like there's, when it, when it's touching people in a fundamental way, you know, like that, that, again, that's, that's the art. That's the way, the way, you know, what you feel when you hear a song. That's what you feel when you see a beautiful painting. You know, it's that, that's the, that's what we, that's the art that we bring to this, you know, that the actor is bringing to it. Emotional truth, whether that's brought upon or whether it's real or whatever it is, but if that person experiencing it is, is being moved somehow, yeah. And, um, and I'm so glad that, she gave you that. I mean, that is a huge nugget coming out of college knowing, oh, it's, it's not just about how "Well, I can do the scene." It's about how well I can really know what this art is. - Well, and I'll be really, also just really know who I am. Know who I am. Like as deep down as like be really as honest and truthful as I possibly, possibly humanly can about who I am as a person and what makes me motivate me and what I love and what I fucking hate. And like, you know, it's like, that was a lot of it too. It's just like, you know, to play, to bring the art into, you know, the discipline of acting. It's to really, you know, to bring that into that emotional truth, like you can't do it unless you do the work inside. Unless you really find out who what makes you take. - That growth too. - And awareness and all that stuff that, if I was a stockbroker, would I have all these like beautiful moments of revelation and truth about myself and character growth and all these things? That's why we say what you want, but I call this a very spiritual path that has nothing to do with religion or even God, but it's more of a, am I a better human being on planet earth because of this or am I worse? Ooh, I am way better because of all the growth and all this examination and all this awareness that I am brought on by a daily habit pursuit of this thing that I thought that I was doing it because I loved it. What I didn't realize is it was preserving me and giving me this amazing human experience. And you've had a lot of wonderful experiences. So let's jump in. - Yeah. - What happened, nearing the end of your time in Evanston, where the sun was setting. You were on your way to a pretty big summit here and that realization that actors finally say, okay, we've been talking about this for a dozen years now, it's time to do something about it, what happened? - I mean, I was lucky in that I had the most amazing group of friends first of all. Like we, almost all of them theater majors, we just became very, very close. And so like, you know, so I knew that I was gonna go where they're going. A lot of, and we were going to New York. Also, I was very fortunate in that Northwestern was part of a showcase program. - Nice. - At the time I do, it was called New Leagues. And now I think they just have their own showcase. So I don't really know, especially after COVID, I have no fucking idea how any of this should work. But back then, I auditioned for all of the faculty and I was one of a bunch of several kids that they sent to New York and we did a showcase. I did, I had two of the most amazing scene partners. I did a scene from, this is our youth with the incomparable Diane Davis. She's a brilliant actor who, you know, she was in, she was last year in the Harry Potter, pretty, Jenny, Jenny Potter Broadway before COVID-19. - Oh my gosh. - She's just an absolute brilliant actor. And then I'm my other scene that was from Raising Captivity with Kristen Shaw. So it's like, I was like, I don't know. - I love Raising Captivity. - It's a brilliant play. She's a brilliant person. - Yes. - And also a brilliant performer. - So I was very fortunate in that these were my friends and they were so inspiring to me and they were also big reason why I was like, I can do this. Like I can, like I don't have to be, you know, the the I win who's constantly apologized. You know, like that, you know, I'm sorry. I'm not that good at playing. - I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry for saying I'm sorry. Robin, let me ask you now. Now some of us have, I call it, we tag each other to things. And it's those people that you met in college where you're like, ah, you're on my same wavelength. Let's connect. Let's work together. Let's follow each other. Let's be on this road together. Did you know that those two were gonna go off? Did you have that feeling as you kind of jumped into this collective? Or did you all kind of simultaneously just converge to each other? Or did you see them and say, oh, I want to know them because I know that knowing them is not to be a selfish, in a selfish way, but sometimes we know people that we want to associate ourselves with. We know people that we want to join forces with. Did you know that they were headed for this wonderful, this wonderful future? - I did. I absolutely do. I knew it the second I met Diane, and so she was in my acting class, too. I was like, I was like, she got to, she's just fun, deniable, stark quality. - Right. - Kristen Shawl exactly the same. We would always say we were like, she's the first to book a job. We were like, she's gonna do it, and she was, of course. Um, just brilliant. Also, one of my very closest, best, serious friends is Billy Eichner, and I remember sitting in a booth next to his at the student union, and he was talking to her friend, Ellen, and I was just like, fucking laughing. Like, listen, like, he's just so fucking hilarious. I was just sitting there, and I remember being like, that's my best friend. I was like, I wanna make this work. - This is quite a class. - That's a lot. - Yeah, it was a class. That limo driver was like, and you're welcome. (laughing) - It's amazing. And that's the thing, too. It was like, monoliths doubted that. Like, you know, like, like, the town, it was just so there, and like, you know, so vivid. - Vivid, so real, and it was just there, yeah. The scariest thing is like, how are we going to get to a place where the career is working? That was scary and took many years and many like lost jobs and close calls and like, you know, whatever, you know, like, help from parents and all that stuff. - Community is so important in theater school, and it sounds like you just had quite a community of incredible actors who were all there for each other. Totally, totally. And yeah, and so when they were like, we're moving to New York, I was like, "Oh, New York, we're better." - Yes, we are. - Sometimes we need a push and it could be a collective push where it's like, okay, I don't know what I'm doing, but we cannot know what we're doing together, and it just feels a little better, knowing that you've got a little collection when you get there. You know that you're not just going in their blind, you know? And that happens a lot. - Oh, yeah. - So those people listening, if you're in those college years, there are people to your left and your right that you might know for the next 30 years, and it's up to you to look at them and say, "Do I vibe with them? Do I connect with them?" And is this person somebody that I want to work with, you know? Be sure to remember those people and to keep them close because I will tell you something, you will work with them again as the years go on. - Absolutely. - So you got through the showcase. - Absolutely, okay. So you got through that showcase, you're in New York, what's happening? Are you getting bites? What's going on? - So I booked agents out of the showcase, which is very exciting. - Amazing. - And I signed with, at the time they were Adrom's artists. - Yes, initially. I was in the children's department. (laughing) It was very severe. I mean, I looked at you. - Did you tell them you were an adult or? - Well, I played like, I was sort of being, I was playing like, you know, like 17 to 20. You know, I was like playing like, like, you know, older teen rules, you know? So it was just one of those things. I mean, you know, they say children's department, they're sending out for it. - Believe me, at 25, I was easily playing 16. So I couldn't believe the children's department too. - Totally, totally, exactly. So yeah, so I was, that was, so I was with them. And then I was with this other, and my first legit agent was, she, I, no, so it was, this guy, this wonderfully nice man named Francis Teltyca, who I don't know where he is now, but he worked for Phoebe Oscar, who, no one knows who this is, but she was a legend talent agent from like the 60s all the way through the 90s, 2000s. I mean, she was just the total, like, raising people in classic New Yorker, like, classic Ben and the Biz. And so anyway, so I was tied with Phoebe Oscar's agency. And, and then, it just sounds like she's got a cigarette. This is Phoebe, he's great. Yeah, you need to, you need to add this, and just put him on. - I can't, you know, it's like, I haven't told these stories, so it's like so funny. It's like, I wish, you know, it's like, I also wish that I like had absorbed more of those details when they were happening, you know, but whatever. All right, so anyway, so yeah, and so I booked my first commercial, that, so I moved to New York in June, and in that fall, I booked my first commercial, and it was a must join union gig, so I was right away, right into SAG. SAG and after that. Together at that point, so it was SAG after, equity, after second. And so, yeah, and then I was just like, I was like, okay, I think we're gonna, I think this is gonna work. You know, it's like still, you know, it's like, I mean, we're talking like hundreds and hundreds of commercial editions for all kinds of shit, you know, like that's like your job. That's where you just go every day. It's a different appointments. That's just your job is to say, yes, I'm available, yes, I'll go, no, I won't get it, but I'm going and you do that like a hundred times, and you're gonna get a couple. Yeah, exactly. If you're really looking, the widest met you can possibly do, you know, and so, so yeah, and that was great. And then I legit wise, I auditioned and was cast in this play that was thrown by the, that was put up by the, the, young playwrights, young playwrights in corporate, which is a theater company where kids from high schools all over the United States send in plays and then they stage and read, workshop, they had like, you know, camps that kids would come to New York to work on their plays together. And back then they would do like a night of 1xX and the times came and it was at the Cherry Lane Annex, so a little, the small theater. Yeah, yeah, Cherry and Theater. I used to work on stages there. Yeah, that's a beautiful theater. Gorgeous, gorgeous. And like that was my first big play that I did in New York and one of the, I believe she was a stage manager after that show had wrapped. And I got a great review in the times, which was really great. Wait, pause real quick. How did you get that gig? Did you get it from a rapper? Did you do it yourself? I got it from a rap. I got it from Frank, Sister Del Ducca, bless you. Okay. And yeah, and so, but then one of the stage managers, she cast me, she was doing a reading once later and she cast me in the reading where I was actually playing opposite Jesse Eisenberg. Okay. For this reading. And at the time he was signed with Abrams Regit. And so they were at that casting, right, they were at that reading and I was introduced to them. And you know, it just seemed like a much better fit only because they were a little bit younger these, these representatives and just a little bit more connected, I think is sort of what I was responding to. And then Abrams became A3 and I have been with Abrams for I going on 20 years now. I love hearing how this happened, then that happened, then this happened. And it's all stuff that you can do or not do. But oh, look, at the end of it, you got this and you went here and it's just fascinating. It's fine. And another of it would have happened, had you not done the first thing and that is go to New York and that was to do that workshop to whatever to just hit the ground running. - No, to put on to apply early decision to the earth, less than to write theater down, literally writing. Exactly. This is back in the day. So, well, actually I typed it out. - Okay, okay. Well, that's different. - The pursuit of acting is so terrifying. And you know, like when you're, when you don't have that safety blanket of school anymore, you know, there's that tension of like, I'm gonna do this. I may or may not know how, but I'm certainly going to give it a try and you know, take that big step. Now with all this momentum going on, where you like, all right, I'm in New York. Things are happening. Like this is, I'm a professional actor. I'm going to be a professional actor. This is going the way I'm expecting. That first, so you know, ever since I booked that first commercial, I was like, well shit, like, you know, and again, I wasn't booking like every month or, you know what I mean? Like it was, you know, and then there were times where I didn't book for a year or plus. - Right, right. - It's a proud, it wasn't just going uphill the whole time, right? - But it was always the same argument in my head from that first commercial, which was, I'm already 95% beyond where most actors are in this world. Like I can't quit now. You know, like I can't, and again, this is not too, you know, like God knows, not shame. Anybody who decides that maybe it's time to hang it up. I'm just saying like I was like, I was like, that was the motivation too, where it was like, it was like, all right, I got that first foot and the first, like, dady toenail in the fucking door. Like, you know, like it's too far gone now to give up, you know? And so, so that was also a big inspiration. And again, that is scary to me. Even to this day, like, you know, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, you know, there's a good reason. - You can't stop now. - You can't stop me. No, I'm like, what am I doing? Like, like I think. - And thank God, thank God, because you know, who knows, there have been times where, and maybe you're at that point, whoever's listening, where you're like, oh, no, I want to die on stage. That's how much I love it. Or you might be like, you know what? I could give it up now and probably be a little happier. But you have the pressure, not really pressure, but the sort of glue sticking you that says, no, no, we've been doing things. Maybe this is just a hard year. And it helps us to stay in the game just a little longer for the next wonderful thing to come because any practical person knows that, well, if you're not hitting it, then you should find something else. But what's different in this business is, no, no, no, you got to swing and miss most times. And it's a vetting process to see, are you willing to handle the responsibility when it does hit, you know? After swing and we watch you, we watch how you strike and how you react. And when you hit, it depends, it determines how you're going to react and how responsible you are based on how many times that you've fallen, you know, and that's part of it. It's just, it's just really part of it. I'm so glad you stuck with it. I'm so glad things started strong for you. But that was a great way to kind of continue. I can't imagine what it's like if you're just swinging and missing for years and years and it's like, what do I do? But you just kind of have to keep going. I also met my husband and a commercial call back. So, you know, there you go. - There you go. - But I give it up. I wouldn't-- - What was that first commercial, by the way, that you booked? - It was for New York lottery. It was for New York lottery spot. - Thank God for those lottery spots. We would all be in the poor house, huh? - Oh, me does those. - I think I've done, yeah. - At least two, maybe three. But I'm over the years. - All right. - Yeah. I actually did one years later. I did a New York lottery spot. And it was like a bunch of people at a music festival or some was the set up or whatever. And it was me that and my scene partner, it was like people being interviewed, documentary style or whatever. And I was standing with Michael Yurie. Was my scene partner for that random commercial? Anyway. - Wild. - Again, I thought about these things. It's so long, so I'm like, I'm a little disjointed. I'm just like, oh yeah, I did that. But it's a commercial. Like Michael Yurie, like way back with it. - Sounds like you were kind of, there was a first behind you that was kind of caressing you and like guiding you forward with the right people coming across your path. And that happens. It happens a lot. And it's happened to Adam. It happened to me to be aware of that, to know, ooh, this isn't a might as golden touch thing. But it is sort of like, this is kind of weird. How 99.9% of the people who kind of go after this, it doesn't work this quickly and this good. So you were acknowledging that as things were progressing, you said you had a couple of drafts out here. Now what was the hardest thing when you were starting in those like 20s and those years to keep going? - The hardest thing I think would just be feeling productive and feel it. Like on those days when there isn't an audition, sometimes there's months where there's not even an audition. And it's just feeling like staying motivated. Yeah, like that's the hardest part. That's the hardest part. - Feeling like things are moving. It's hard to do that when there's not a thing to do. What did you do? Did you find new things to do? Did you work side jobs? - I was fortunate in a commercial apartment in that I would book one before I ever had to take like an actual day job. So I was very lucky in that way. But I would also like, I guess yeah, what would I do? So I mean, it's like my friends. That's when your friends come. Because I was, Billy, I could always my roommate. And it was during-- - Oh, wild. - One of those droughts for both him and for me, where he was like, let's do a show together. And so we were like, all right. So he, we both sort of created these sort of almost grotesque caricatures of us of ourselves. But with terrible judgment and, you know, (laughing) it was a sketch comedy show that took the form of like a talk show. And we were the host and he was the host and I was the co-host. And so we, I always say like, you know, and his name was Billy and my name was Robin. But we were playing characters who were very, again, grotesque versions of who we were at the time. And so I, but yeah, we like, so it was just really naturally we did a reading and then a dear friend, another dear friend from Northwestern, Jamie Salka came on and he was like, all directed. And so we did it and then we found ourselves the in front of Jason Egan who's the creative director at Ars Nova, she's an amazing theater here in New York City. And he brought us in and we did our show there and then it culminated in 2008. We took the show to Vietnam, but we're interested. Like a whole like 35 performances or something. So that was like, that was like a thing and that's another great thing to tell anyone who's listening and this is like again, foster those relationships. Keep it, you know, just to just be present for all of those people go to every weird, potentially terrible play that they're in. But you know, but like, the project community allowed in like, keep going, yeah. Together because those are the people on those droughts that are gonna, that are gonna step in and be like, let's do a little fun thing together. Like just to be active, just to be creative, just to. Yeah, community is so important because it's so easy in this business to feel like you're all alone So that you do, you know, so to keep those people and that tribe around you is really important Idol hands too, you know are like the devil's playground or the the antithesis of professional advancement You know when you have nothing to do and then let's do show. Oh Look Fringe like you know, it's it's so many times have I like just waiting by the phone and waiting for it to ring And then you just like screw it. I'm starting this thing and then boom Guess what you got a movie you got a commercial and you got another thing go and why because you were active You weren't thinking about it you abandoned itself because you focused on something else you were creatively Fulfilled because you had something else going on to to take place of the voice in your head at night That says you're not doing anything terrible stop And here's the thing is that I also truly believe that I The best casting directors out there Can sense that like they sense when you're Being creative and popping and you feel like you have purpose and that you feel like even if the scene is some You know unemployed, you know like alcohol because I'm the terrible you know to be like Just the fact that you and your own person like are doing things that you find and fulfilling and then like I believe that that comes across Psychically subconsciously fair Chemically, you know and because there I'll tell you there been so many times when I like when I booked something that other things like Around it, right like I'll be super like busy and like chunks and like you know like I'll have great like all my auditions Looking better, you know, you know and I and it's again, it's like it could be the exact I mean I'm it's not like I'm a bad actor when I'm not employed. It's just there's just something about your energy that I think People pick up on there's a shit Yeah, and people can casting directors are so good at seeing desperation and seeing obviously your board like those feelings Oh, he's got something she has something going on and she doesn't need this in order to be happy, you know her happiness is found Independent of this audition and too many 99% of actors will go and saying in order for me to have a good day I have to do really well at this audition so well that they pick me out of the 299 other people right and they can show fear they smell fear and there's nothing less attractive to a casting director than fear because they're asking you to put yourself out there no matter what the director asks no matter Yeah, I'm obviously Excuse it within within limits, you know, but you know, they're asking you to like really put yourself out there They don't want to see someone who's like Like I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, they'll be great at a on set for two weeks with $50 million at stake, right? 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I guess it was probably when I booked accepted like it like it was like my first big film and it was like And you know legitimate like intense Casting process and like you know like so you know, it was the first time that I'd read for a director of a major picture with this budget in the studio and But you know, it's I mean it was directed by the amazing Steve Fank who He's a I believe Chicago guy, but he has a you know, he has a basis in Like in comedy and improv in Loose letting it fly, you know, and so like I love that audition Process so much and I think it really excelled with me in that it he just wanted he he was disarming from the moment I walked it so all of again All of that fear that I mean and I told I mean I'm The most afraid person also it like every audition so like I'm not saying that I'm better at this But like but because he was just so like you know, he was just so warm and like not pretentious and really wanted Me to do the best I could possibly do like he wanted everyone to do the best thing to possibly do and so like that was just that was And I and I think yeah, that's what allowed me to the Freedom to create this to to bring this character to life Um and and and and to just let it fly, you know like and did you know that Justin long Blake lively Jonah Hill that all these people would be in this movie or was it were you just kind of flying blind knowing that it was a big picture But you didn't know who was involved. Well, I I knew that they were gonna be in it But this was early in all of their careers like you know, right? This is oh four oh This was like Jonas first big film too, right? Jonah had just a thing and it right before this was he has that hilarious In in uh 40-year-old version means like right the shoes for easy black or shoes. Yeah, yeah Um But you know but still like I I didn't really know who he was and Blake like I I guess I knew her name, but you know they But then I will say like that Pratt that making that movie was so And and and everyone was just given given the freedom to be as funny as they wanted to to riff to like you know Create moments that weren't in the script like they were what they wanted us to do that And you know, it's a bunch of 20 something shooting a movie in the valley at this abandoned mental hospital I mean it was like And like you know and and and the bible and said it was one of those movies where it's like I was like I was like this is good. I was like I just know that this is good Of course it came out did terribly they buried it in you know the death of summer uh However many 2005 so what are we 16 years later is that right um that's we shot it in 2005 it came out in 2006 and it is just like this phenomenon of a cult hit so like it's crazy like I have people to this day come up to me and be like You're the 80 D guy from a set to and they're like yes And they're like I grew up on that movie and I'm like It's awesome. It's just awesome. It was that movie that we all watched a hundred times You know like for me it was probably like like like that some 80s movie like I'd seem like Pretty in pink like a billion times because it was what was on it was just on all the time So I was just accepted it was just for their subpogee 13 and so like I think it was cared on tbs like literally Every other day Some films have that like kind of second life later not from like the initial release I think a lot of people don't realize like when fight club came out bombed Right like and then it had this whole life on DVD because DVDs were coming out and it was like when the matrix was like the The premier DVD and everyone was getting into that and everyone discovered it on DVD and now it's you know one of the most famous movies ever but same with this you know Maybe it was it didn't work in the theaters, but that one channel that was playing it on repeat All those people saw it and talked about it and now it's you know, it's a cult film And now it's a cool man now like look at all the kid look at that gas. We should yeah, right fucking right right right Maria fair Jeremy Howard there's just amazing group actors like real actors. Yeah, just are To see them all like sort of succeeding you know now that we're all all there's just awesome And and coming out of that movie on your way to the next thing what what was the thing that really Changed for you or was there anything transformative that you kind of took and you always had going Going for you know a sense of legitimacy a sense of confidence and sense of like all right, okay You know, it's like I feel like I'm and I'm sure like everyone watching this or listening to this kind of identified as a third an actor or even just an artist is just like, you know, every, every challenge is like a vote of confidence from it. You know, it's like it was like like I like acting, but I don't know if I can do it at the Northwestern level and then I could and I was like, all right. I like acting, but I don't know if I'm going to book anything in New York. Okay, I booked one thing. All right. You know, it's like it was like all of these like checkpoints like right. It keeps you going. It does. Absolutely. Like, well, your fear was being proven wrong. And that's the greatest thing is you went into college thinking, well, I got to write this thing down, but I don't know if I can do it, but fuck it. I'm just going to write this down. And that is basically what you're going to do for the next 50 years is, well, fuck it. We'll just figure it out. And then it works out, right? Amidst your fears, which you go back to having you as a your character and who you are and your your confidence and all that stuff. It's from these experiences that proved you wrong as a human being. You're afraid that you're not going to be good enough. No matter who you are, what field you're in, doctor, lawyer, whatever, you're always going to have that. What do you call it? Adam, we call it we call it a poser syndrome. Oh, in a roster syndrome, in a roster syndrome. Yeah. Right. Where you just, you know, and there are so many people who have even reached a high level in their career and acting and still have that feeling. So it's almost like the point is just to acknowledge it, throw it to the side and say, fuck you. I'm doing it anyway. I still feel that way. I still feel like if I book anything, like, it could be the smallest thing or you know, like I still feel like. Yeah, like it's just like it's like a feel like I won. Like I feel like it's the best feeling in the world. We just had an interview where we said it doesn't matter how big or how small the role is or what, you know, if it's going to be a TV or movie or whatever it is, there is nothing like that feeling of getting the your cast. I think I enjoy that more than the actual actor. I'm serious. Sometimes I wonder if I'm like, if I'm just going to stay doing it because I'm really addicted to that feeling of bogey. But it goes back to the legitimacy you were just talking about. It's that hit of like, okay, I'm doing what I know I'm supposed to be doing other people are rooting for me. They're casting me in something. They're going to put me on this sort of platform or whatever I'm doing okay. You know, and it's that. Yeah. It helps you keep going. Yeah. Totally. Absolutely. It's like, yeah, it's a few. So what happened after that after wrapping that film, maybe even during the release where like we mentioned it wasn't a it wasn't a big big release at the time. What happened with you in the next kind of couple years with your career? Yeah, like I was doing the show with Billy. That was like going really, really well. Was Billy doing anything with like, harmony central and stuff like that yet? No, no, he was still he was doing the he was working on the show that we were doing. I mean, yeah, he was he did other things here and there, but like, you know, but he was the main he was the writer of that show. So it was much more involved for him. It was really, you know, like he was it was his baby creating the yeah, totally like I was there to, you know, I was a couple. I was there to support him and to show a little opposite energy of his, but it was his it was his can still yeah, it was his genius that he wasn't known. He wasn't known like, oh, he's the guy from comedy said he hadn't booked that yet. No, no, that had not yet. Okay. Okay. That all came out of this show that we funny. Oh, wow. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, so I so yes, we were doing that and then I'm a really important thing that happened that time out of the accept it was just that I really became close with my representation, like my agent, I connect I connected with and she was a junior agent at the time. And her name is Samantha story. She's brilliant. Oh, I know Samantha. Lovely. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful person. And she on great woman. She's a really incredible person and a real support. She's she's supportive of what she understands what we're doing. Like she's not it's not about money for her. It's about it's about the creativity and and also just supporting answers and helping us, you know, she's amazing. And so yeah, I connected with her and I've been with her ever since never leaving. She's like, yeah, I just yeah, that loyalty and that connection is really, really important when you've got a rep. At the helm of your career and then personally to connect with them like that is very, very important for working. Totally. Like we understand each other so in terms of way that like I couldn't even imagine having to like reintroduce myself to someone else or who would even get you at it like after all that you've been through and the successes that we've had together like I couldn't imagine it. That was a great thing that came out of that and then that sort of fed into like she would bring me up at mediums at the agency and make sure that I didn't get lost, you know, like I was still kind of offering between the children's department and the youth department and the adult department. You can kind of get lost in the weeds there because sometimes agents don't really talk to each other. You know, like sometimes they don't even know it's the same agency, you know, it's still up to the agent themselves if they want to work with you. But she like stuck by me and like brought my name up and then I started my book done. I put my first law in order. It was amazing. Big time. Big time. A ride of passage in New York. And that was before like the tax breaks really started happening. So it was like it was law in order and the soaps and occasional movie and that was the film and TV, you know, seen here in the city back then. And so it was like to finally get the law in order. I was like, yeah. And then I have the distinction of being in three separate original law in order episodes, about the years. Like three entirely different people. There's got to be a word for that. Like one of those egot's are like a some sort of. Yeah, yeah, totally. It's like it's so on and like I'll get calls from my uncle who loves lawn or it's like he just puts it on. You know, it's like and I'm like as long as it's not Fox News, go like put it on. And so he'll call you'll call my mom and be like, Robbins on lawn order and I'm like, do I have to answer? Two I have tattoos or as if I have tattoos and my end of the garage. Right. So, so yeah. And that all started to happen. And yeah, I don't know. And then, you know, I started like just doing the pilot season stuff. And like again, casting the widest net. You could cast. And yeah, but you as you guys know, it's like and even to this day, it's like. There's this myth of like career trajectory or momentum that we have. And even now, like, you know, it's like. I, I, I think maybe this is part of why like every time I book something, I feel it's such a huge rush is because like. It's really hard to, I really don't believe it. Unless you are in a very elite group of actors. Like, you're. One job doesn't really lead into the next job. It's not like someone even like when I, when I did Gotham, you know, I still coming out of that feel like I'm reintroducing myself every audition and you know, it's like. Like that just because I was on a show. You know, does it mean that people are going to be like, oh, we got to get that that Gotham guy, you know what I mean? It doesn't work that way at all. So, you know, again, like it's just, you know, after after booking things and all of that, like. I never let any sort of complacency set in like I still feel like. Like I still feel like I really truly feel it because I'm more of a character that I'm going to get jobs based on the audition. I can then necessarily get them as offers. It's very, I feel like that's rare for me. I mean, who knows what will happen, but like. So it's like the, and I also like, I learned to love auditioning. I love auditioning. That's interesting. There's not a lot of people will say that. So why can I ask how? I was like when I started booking more stuff and this is part of, you know, like I learned I doing all of that. I was like, I learned to embrace the audition and to treat it as though. This is, I, okay, well, I have 10 minutes playing this. The penguin right now, you know what I mean? Like this may be the only time I get to play this character. I didn't know it was paying at the time, but yeah, I'm just using it as an example. So I'm just going to fucking let it fly. Like this is my 10 minutes on Carnegie Hall stage. You know, this is, this is like my performance. And I'm going to give, and I'm going to put that energy. Like I want to, I want to get the best review from them. And I also realized too, like the longer I was in the business, or auditioning, I did it. I did it. You don't get jobs necessarily because you're, or you don't lose jobs because you're not talented. That's, you know, like the fact that you're even in the room means that your talent means that someone. Yeah, they, that consensus is, you know, Adam, Tommy, they are talented, you know what I mean? Like they're in the room. But, you know, I learned that like so many other things factor into that. It's like, I'm blind. I'm too short. You know, like, I don't know, whatever. My eyes are blue. I don't know. You know, it's like, it comes down to so many weird factors. Or there's like seven producers like me and one didn't. And he pulled his veto. You know, like, I don't know if any of these things actually happen, but they do. And that's why when we don't get jobs again, I learned, oh, it's not because I suck. You know, it's not because I'm bad. It just means that it didn't work out. And so once I realized that, I was able to look to really treat the audition and it's like something fun and be like, you know, like, I'm like, this is my, yeah, this is my show. This is the route. You have to be aware that there are factors utterly out of your control that you will never be able to dictate to the people who are making the decisions. And you know, we go through so many droughts that, you know, there's going to be times where, sure, maybe you're not even booking stuff. Maybe you're not even auditioning. So you're not even acting. So when you do get an audition, it's the, I get to act today, whether I'm going to get it or not, it's still an exercise in acting. And it's still practice. And it's, you know, all of those that it's still memorizing. It's still making choices, all of those things. So even though it's an audition, you still get to go act that day. Also, the other thing too is that you're auditioning for the casting director. You're not auditioning for the job. Like again, like, there it is. That is what it is. I, like, I've gotten, I was, I was like, called in for Gotham because I made a good impression on the casting directors on a totally different job. You know, like, on a totally different audition, that was a big deal. I got, I was down to me and one other person. It went to the other person. It was absolutely devastating. And yet they came back around. Well, he, it came fully backgrounds. And so like, yeah, I always try and tell people, yeah, it's like, like, let go of the job. Like, let's try, just try and let go of the job and just try and deliver a connected, beautiful performance and do it for these people. Like just like just really, because again, the chance of you getting the job is very, very small matter, you don't matter what. So, um, what a gift, what a gift to have that perspective. I mean, that saved your butt so many times about my job is to come here. And when I leave, have them say, he was good. Don't know if that's going to be, if he's got it, but he was good. Then if I'm so good and so perfect for this thing that I actually book it, that's the freaking icing on the cake. But you know what, I'm there just for the cake. And the cake is for me to do a good job for you so that you don't lose this precious time that you've got as a casting director with 150 other people coming in. And to respect your time and to respect my efforts and respect the craft to do everything that I'm supposed to do today. But it's not about the booking so that when I leave, I throw those things, those sides into the trash and I say on to the next one. And then I get a call that says you book book to what I don't know. I didn't even remember it. I forgot about it, which is, that's the goal. You should have to rack your brain about what it is you booked because you forgot it. So good. So that's wonderful. Okay. And as things were progressing for you, you found the, you cracked the audition code. And that is the perspective of just having fun. It's, it probably got a little easier for you. No matter the frequency of bookings, things got a little just easier for you because we're so desperate about booking something. How did things go then coming up, coming up to where we are now. How did things progress with you in terms of how you handled the industry and how you handled fame and money and all that stuff? Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah. I guess I just still want to work. And like, I don't really, I really try not to think about the fame or playing any sort of Hollywood game or it just doesn't interest me. I just want to, yeah, I don't know. And I said this. We do Adam wrote and directed a beautiful piece called skeletons that the three of us were so fortunate to be a part of. And we did, we did an interview about that and, you know, I just, like I said, like, I just want to work. Like, I am, like, it doesn't matter if it's the smallest thing, like, if it's a beautiful project and it, I feel like I can, you know, bring something to it and, and, and, you know, make, make people have an experience than, then I'm there. And I was like, really, the greatest thing about, you know, like, like becoming more successful in this business for me is just like, the, I feel like I'm, I'm allowed to be more creative and take bigger risks. And I don't have to. And again, it's just all about, like, letting go of that fear, like every, everything, like every, like, talking to the checkmark and I keep talking about fear. Every time I do one of those things, I'm just like, it gets less and less, you know, like, and so then the work gets better and better and the job and the auditions get better and better. It seems like it's a, the shelf life of an actor is like the jar of something and what's preserving this jar? Is it going to spoil or is it going to be taken care of, you know, what is it in those jars and the basement that like preserve the whatever it is and that is the perspective you have. The idea that you just want to work the, the belief of, of saying fuck fame and all that stuff that doesn't matter, you know, you preserved your, your, your longevity by having that perspective. And there are a lot of people who have been in the business even shorter than you who do not have the same zest and fresh spirit. I think this business will take a lot out of you if you allow it, if you don't have those, those landmark things that you stand for that won't let you have your human experience be taken away, you know, that's independent, your happiness is independent of this, of this job. And I think you crack the code with that and that's why you work and that's why you get such a fulfilling feeling from a really huge show on Netflix or $150 short film, you know, like whatever it is, you found a way to feel fulfilled. And you make such a, you make a great point that I, that I want to jump on in that, I learned after, so for a long time, I kept thinking like, if I get this, then I'll be happy, you know, like if I book that and I'll be happy. And then it would delineate out of the job if I get a guest spot on order, then everything's going to be fine. If I get, you know, it's like, oh, you know, and so then finally it was like, I want to be a series regular on a big network show. And then once I get that, then smooth sailing all the way and like sort of like the final of them. And then troubles. Yeah, exactly. And then it has like the hardest thing about Gotham when it first started is that I had that expectation intrinsically and I learned pretty much immediately that nope, that is absolutely not going to do it. Exactly. In fact, like, you know, in some ways, I was using these ideas of like I was using these accomplishments, all makes this way of not doing the internal work and not like doing the self reflection and all of the work that we should be, we should all be doing to be better human beings and to be. I don't want to happy is to, but to be fulfilled and to be to be a content with ourselves as human beings in the world. I was using those as distractions, you know, and so it's like one of the biggest blessings in Gotham was that it did show me like very starkly like no, like these things go so deep, you know, it's not going to be solved by a really awesome job. It's not that no, and so actually coming out of Gotham, like having learned that lesson, finally taking steps to do the work internally to like untie, you know, negative thought patterns and all those, you know, negative things that I say to myself or feel about myself and like, you know, a lot of this comes with age to just naturally, but like, you know, like I feel like coming out of Gotham, I've now had that revolution, I'm now doing the work. And now I feel like my auditions are even better and like I feel like my like I feel like legitimizing and just excited to to share the human experience with everybody, no matter what the character is. So that's that's where I am now and like I really, if I could say to anything to anyone is like, I like try not to wait as long as I did to do that work like really like, like work to dismantle the negative things that we say to ourselves, the negative ideas we have, you know, we're actors, we put ourselves out there, we put ourselves out there to the point where people were allowing people to have opinions on us, whether they're found in the truth or not. They're going to have them no matter what. But like, yeah, so just taking care of yourself and like and really doing that, doing that work. It's like start now, go, go, go to therapy. Hey, listen, don't care. Sort of drives home the idea that, you know, you find something that somehow improves you and all the messy stuff that's inside that somehow, some way, whatever medium you're choosing, whatever pursuit you want to try, make it something that unravels all those knots and helps you and that you come to a point 30s, 40s, 50s, where you're just more excited and a leaner version of a human being than you were last year. And just how beautifully spiritual this pursuit can be if it's done right. And it sounds like, you know, we can do, we can do a lot of things wrong, but it sounds like you did a lot of things right. It's the people in my life that, that, that allowed that to happen. Like, again, I'm just going to tie it back to what my IT teacher taught us, you know, which was like, find out who you are. And it's, I don't know, and I'm sure anyone who's out there, who has done acting class and all of that, I'm sure you guys feel this way too. Like, like, I was so young when I went through that class. So like, she was saying shit to us. No idea. When he, right, I'm no frame of reference about what you're talking about. Like, you know, like, I have a vague idea. You know, like, I'm not like, I, like, I, I understand what you're saying, but do I don't feel it? I don't truly understand it in my, my bones, what you're saying. And it's so great too because like, the older we get, the more we put ourselves out there in this business, the more we stick to it, the more like those lessons come back. And they, it's like, oh, that's what, like, this is what that feels like. Like, this is, like, I feel like it's just becoming crystallizing, becoming more fully realized, you know? Yeah. Well, that's because it's a lifetime thing. You know, this isn't something you just do in your 20s. It's like, I learned, I heard all that stuff in my 20s, but it didn't ring true because as a young person, I'm just getting the top cream of whatever I'm being served. So when you get older, you start to delve deeper and you start to get all the beautiful, preserving ingredients, if you want to go back to that metaphor, you know, because you're just getting older, which means you can dive deeper and you get a deeper understanding. So when we say, you know, we're trying this acting thing out, it's like, no, no, when I started, I was like, oh, this will be 20 years before even things start to get good. I have to know it's really true. I feel like it'd be there on the long line. That's why I keep what I'm still doing is because I feel like I'm just getting started. Like, I don't just get it. I'm like, I'm still getting better. I'm just getting better every day. Every day I'm better than I was yesterday, you know? And so it's like that again, it's like, makes me want to go out there, it makes me want to keep auditioning. You know, like I, I've auditioned. I'm still auditioning for everything because like, again, like I, I'm not waiting for someone to sort of hand me or see me. Like I still like, I'm like thirsty to prove myself. I still have things to say and things to prove, you know, so I don't know. That's the fire. And I hope that anyone who's in this business look really like Kindle's that. And like, you know, holds on to that because that's, again, that's another part that's going to carry you through. Robin Lord Taylor. He's just getting started. I miss you. Miss you too. We're so glad you could come on the show. Thank you so much for giving us your wisdom and experience. Tons of good stuff there. You guys, yeah, it's amazing. I'm, I just, well, I mean, can I plug a couple things? Absolutely. Yes, please plug away. So I had the incredible fortune to not just work on one project. We're come to projects during COVID. And one of those projects was to be amazing short film called Skeletons starting time. You're more. We're in directly land in Carlo. And Adam, tell us where that is and when that what's on board for that. We are currently waiting to start hearing back from film festivals. So we finished it in January and then, you know, there's like huge windows of time where, you know, they have all these deadlines and you have to wait for months and months and months on end. So I believe that window is coming to a close very shortly. So we should start then hearing about stuff throughout, I think like the whole summer and the whole fall. So knock on wood, but still TBD. So we should find out. When blowing it up like crazy on social media and what else. Yeah. And what else you got going on? I want to say I got to I was in I have a small recurring part on this incredible new show called Kevin Confuck himself on AMC, starring the brilliance, animar fee from shits. Yeah. Also, Mary Hollis in Bowdoin who's just an amazing actress. And yeah, so that comes out on June 20th on AMC and then of the AMC Plus is their streaming service. It's a really brilliant show. And it's brilliant for actors to because it's actually a hybrid. Part of the show is multi cam sitcom. The other part is single cam realism. And a lot of the time in is the single cam stuff. But it was my first multi cam experience ever being on a multi cam set. Oh, fun. Yeah, with the laughing and the shit, you know, like totally different. I'm sure. So crazy because like we would shoot like one day one day I would be in a multi cam sitcom. The next day we're shooting like Breaking Bad. You don't even know. Like it is such a brilliant show. It's just it's a commentary on our culture and also, you know, female empowerment and animar fee is an absolute genius and just an absolute delight of a of a co star. And like she couldn't have been more supportive. And again, like if you find yourself on set, like I like I've learned so much from her. Just that's what I want to be, you know, like on a show. Like I want people who are coming on to day play to be like feel like they're part of the family, you know. So she definitely did that. So anyway, that's amazing. So excited to see Kevin can fuck himself. Check it out. June 20th. Got it. Love it. Robin. So much love you guys have an amazing day. Take it to love you to thanks. Bye. Oh, always a joy. Well, the best love that man. Really love him. Yes. Yeah, we have got really ever chatted about this on the podcast, but Robin and I know each other because I was his stand in for all five years of Gotham, which was just I don't think I knew it at the time when I got that job, you know, when they were like, Hey, you're going to be doing this. You don't know how long a TV show is ever going to last. You don't know if somebody going to be written right. You just have no idea. And it just or that you'll have a master's in acting by the end of it because pretty much that's what happened. Yeah. And it was just it was the most incredible learning experience from so many different perspectives. But especially for him to be the guy that I stood in for, you know, he is just constantly so kind, so generous, so giving. He delivers on every fucking take. He comes in so goddamn prepared. I think in five years, maybe on one hand, I could count the amount of times they've ever said, line, you know, like what he does, he brings it at the rehearsal as much as he does when we're rolling. And I just felt so lucky that he was the guy I got to work with so much on that show. And then just teaching you about, you know, being prepared on a set like that and having all the cameras and, you know, the setup of what a real big TV show is like when you're there with the DP and the director and the entire camera department and like you're really in the core of the whole machine and it was just such a wonderful, wonderful learning experience. But you know, he and I became very good friends over the five years. I'm just so grateful that I had that experience and got that relationship and he's just amazing. He's a great example. I mean, for someone that's been in, however many years he's been in, the goal is for me at that time table, at that age or at that whatever the year is to be as approachable kind, full of zest, full of zeal, just good nature and true and authentic and real and all that good stuff. Like he is just a great example of what it means to be in this industry for a long time and to preserve yourself. You're true authentic self and I get too cynical or too, you know, acting along him, you know, in skeletons was one of the, one of the things that I'm going to do is to get one of the great memories in my career. I'll always have because it was just so effortless and he and I were just on the same, like in the same zone, unneeded to talk much about anything, unneeded. We didn't need to hash anything. I just, it was so easy with him. It was just so easy and yeah, he's just such a pleasure to talk to and I feel like invigorated whenever I speak to him about anything not even to do with acting just like life. He's just such a good person. He's a fountain of wisdom and love that man, love that man. What a good episode. Yeah, I'm really, really glad that he could, he could come on. All right, Adam, should we sign off for what? Let's do it. Take us out of here. All right, fine. You can find out more about BookIt and before the BreakItBook at NYC.com. You can follow us on Instagram at BeforeTheBreakPodcast. We've got a brand new Instagram handle led by our wonderful Adam DeCarlo here. So check that out, give us a follow. You can also check us out at BookIt_NYC on Instagram and that's BookIt's page. Check out [email protected] and follow him at that Adam DeCarlo. You can check out my stuff at TommyBeardMore.com and follow me on Instagram at TommyBeyond. - Are you do practices like just to get it quicker and quicker and quicker? In the shower, in the car. - The tosses like, "Would you shut the fuck up?" - Could you shut up about the handles? Christ. - All right. - Anybody. - Love you buddy. I will, we'll see you all next time. Thank you for joining us. - You're welcome. - And I love you all. Thank you for listening. Bye everybody. Bye. (upbeat music)