Golden Nuggets Podcast #28: Everything is a Rem

Oh, all right back again. So dude, I just tell you I've basically I've been using Remnote for a couple of weeks and I love it. It's amazing software. I mean, I okay, here's what I want to know like how come no one said anything? You know, I don't know if people were using it and stuff, but okay, so I just want to get into a few things. One, even if you don't buy into the Remnote way of doing things and by the way, I'm just I don't have any written notes. I'm just speaking extemporaneously. Even if you don't buy into the Remnote way of doing it like concept descriptive framework and by the way, we can define these terms in case anybody who's listening is not aware, but even if you don't buy into all that as a flash card review tool purely as that as a flash card storage and review tool, it's the best tool there is. And there's very concrete reasons for that. For example, I've been using Anki recently, especially in the past like six months because of FSRS. And one issue that I really, really hate aside from the fact that there's basically no organization in the tool aside from tags is the fact that when you review an item, you can't say, I want to do something to this later. Like I don't want to get out of the flow right now. But for example, what will often happen is that I'll review a card and I'll go, I no longer know what the whole picture is not because I've forgotten some other card, but because I've actually forgotten to make the cards in the first place that would remind me of some detail that I needed to know. And I just didn't realize that at the time that I was making the set of cards for the topic. You know what I mean? And so I want to be able to say like, hey, just go look into this again and make the missing cards that way this card and its siblings actually have some utility because without the missing ones, the whole thing falls apart and it's nothing. Right? And so you want to just be able to subtly indicate. And this got to a point of such annoyance for me, based on a few things I wanted to do, like just be able to say, you know, reword this, add cards here, you know, add some connection between these two things, whatever, because I like to say like, how is this similar to that? And so I was going to make my own flash card review tool because I just thought I just can't deal with this anymore. It's just causing me so many problems. Well, guess what? Totally unbeknownst to me. I had no idea about this until after I started using random. At least that's my memory of it. There is an edit later, like mark as edit later. You can even give a message. There's some defaults they provide. But just that is fantastic. And let me say another couple of things about their view process itself. And by the way, I know I'm talking a lot. James, you can say something if you want. But the, okay, so a couple of the things about the review process in a tool like on key, right? If you review a card and you go, oh, I want to make another one or I want to move this card, like in Remnote, moving a card is actually quite significant because the way you review a card is what the hierarchical structure that it's in. So if a card is in one structure and you move it, the actual display of it during review will be different entirely or at least partially. So where you have it is actually quite important thing. And so you can easily just move it not only that, but you can go to where it is and easily add siblings, add related cards or see its connections and add a card there. There's no other tool like that where the, your notes and the flashcards are so tightly integrated that if you notice a need for more flashcards or you go, oh, I have one here, but over on this other topic that it relates to, I want to draw a connection between that or ask a question that links them. And so you just easily go to that because it's linked. So you just click on it and you can go there. Another thing, I am obsessed with parentheses when using flashcards just completely obsessed with the other. I don't know why, but I find parentheses to be a hugely important part of keeping the whole structure alive when you're using flashcards to remember a topic. Because you're always sort of gesturing at the remaining aspect that is not covered per say by the back of the card. Because you don't want so much data on the back that the card is harder to review, add emissity and minimum information principle and all that stuff. So you want to have limited information on the back. But with parentheses, you can kind of gesture at or subtly fill in those details so that at the review process, you can just make that link once again and it's just a little bit of a memory aid. It's just a little bit of a way to hold the whole thing together. Just a bit of glue for the whole structure of the topic that you're sort of dismembering with the cards. And so I'm obsessed with parentheses. But the problem with using parentheses, especially as liberally and as frequently as I use them, is that they're just so visually annoying. And I know that sounds mild, but in Anki, right? It's all on one line. And so I mean, maybe you could do it differently, but I guess just by default, especially since I've been writing so many of my cards with AI, it's all on one line. So the actual answer and then the parenthetical statement, which is not part of the answer, I don't need to recall that is all on one line. And I just that all that visual noise, I hate it so much. And I've hated it for a long time. And I've thought about just making some CSS and Anki and finding a way to automatically tag the parenthetical statements and then just put it below. I think I even saw that in an anti-metallic check Patreon post where he had done a similar thing for somebody he was working with and basically writing cards for them as an experiment. He had designed this because he noticed that he was putting too much extra stuff in the cards and it was too much visual noise. And that totally resonated with my feeling about it. And I hated it. Well, guess what, my friends? RemNote has this power up, which I guess is just a tag that provides a rem with some special functionality called extra card detail. And so you can easily just apply this extra card detail. So the way it would look actually in the app for the people that haven't used it, RemNote is basically a hierarchical outlining tool with flashcards embedded. So you'd make a flashcard on one bullet point, right? Then you'd make a new bullet and you indent it within that flashcard. You type some text and then you type slash slash is a beautiful, beautiful command in RemNote that works amazing. Whoever designed and I have a bunch of nice things to say about the developers of that tool because I can feel and I probably wouldn't think this if I want to develop it myself. But I can feel so much of the complexity of that app actually is never seen by the user because of how well executed it is. Like all that slash command stuff and the way it's so fluid when you transition the state of a bullet between a flashcard and no flashcard or all that stuff, that stuff is so perfectly done. Getting the cursor positions right when you navigate between bullet points or when you do slash and then you type a letter and it actually adds it to the bullet. But then as soon as you hit a thing, it removes, I mean, that's amazing. Like it's all that stuff is so difficult to do. I know it doesn't sound like much, but when you're a developer and you've tried to build those kinds of things, you know how difficult it is to get those things just right. So the user doesn't even notice their existence. That's what you want to do. You want that stuff to disappear. So that stuff is so difficult. So whoever did that, I'm sure it was a team effort. Just major props there. It's so difficult. But anyway, so you would just indent this new bullet under your flashcard and then you just do slash. So you have everything you can do to a bullet. You can just type ecd extra card detail bank. What that means is when you review that parent flashcard on the back side, below the actual answer. So it's way at the bottom. So it's not visual noise. It's just a little bit of extra detail. So you can glance at that if you want to. You don't have to you don't have to recall it. It doesn't matter. Right. And so that to me, just just that set of features where you can easily market as an edit later, you can easily add another bullet. You can easily add more information and you can also add extra card detail. All that stuff is that to me, even if you were using normal flashcards, not in the Remnote style, it would still be the best flashcard review tool. And you have to understand, I'm obsessed with these tools. So I'm not getting it a light judgment. Like I honestly thought and I feel bad even saying this. I thought that Remnote wasn't good, but I don't know why I thought I don't I had no I had no basis for the opinion because I think I maybe used it once some years ago, but I had never like revisited it. I never gave it a real go. Anyway, go ahead. I've been talking for like 27 minutes. So no, I love listening to you. I remember that I don't know if you've seen the Matrix, but this is seen where Morpheus is he's like watching, um, watching Neo as he's in Matrix. Cool ninja shit. I have done he's like he's starting to believe. And that's like kind of how I. Okay, so I have seen that scene, but it's been so long, but you're reminded me of it. But so I just want to ask and you don't have to share it if you don't want to, but is Remnote a core part of your learning process? Yeah, yeah. I mean, all new flashcards stuff for around, I don't know, however long I've been working at Remnote has been done in in Remnote. Wow, okay. I mean, primarily I've been doing. like learning math related things. So that's why, you know, before I was using SuperMemo and that was just way too janky to do anything with math seriously. But with WebNode with like all the linking, you know, being able to use a LATEC like seamlessly inside the notes and everything, it just made it so much easier. So yeah, yeah, I've been using it pretty heavily. And I'll be talking about it as well. Yeah, I'm really glad you like it. Like I felt for the past two years, maybe for the first year I was working there, I didn't feel like it was stable enough to really promote it heavily because there were so many bugs. Like you praised like the editor and the editor has been like a huge engineering effort. Like it's completely custom. Like it's a custom editor. It's not using any like frameworks, libraries or anything. It's just built from scratch. So it's so sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to emphasize at the point. It's so heavily customized and it's so fluid. I knew it must have taken so much effort. There's no way you land on that with like, oh, I just did this sort of weekend. There's no possible way. It's it's so well done. And I know I'm really harping on it, but from an engineering perspective, that's so hard to get right. It's so hard to get right. And so major props for getting that right. Whoever was involved seriously, that's a tough problem. Yeah, I send this to the editor team. They're so they're so smart. They're so hard working as well. Oh, man. Yeah. There's so many edge cases you have to think of with a rich tech editor. People who just use like Google Docs or anything like that, just probably think of it as being like almost just like a simple utility that just something that exists and it's really obvious how to get it to work, but it's extremely, extraordinarily complicated. It's extremely difficult even just get a regular rich tech editor, but this is like yeah, on steroids. And it's like, yeah, it's just I knew it must have been so hard to do. And it's it's so well done. So major props for us again. Awesome. Yeah, I'm glad to hear that. So yeah, so in the first year, probably the editor and a lot of the parts of the app were quite buggy and unstable. I remember one incident in particular where we it was on the first company offsite. We went to Turkey and we decided to ship some major update. I think it was 1.14 or something like that. And yeah, I just remember everything breaking and we spent the entire offsite just trying to fix bugs and everything. And so back then, there were definitely a lot of performance issues, a lot of bugs and everything. But over the past, I mean, especially in this past six months, things have become way more stable. Like I hardly ever run across like crazy bugs in my day to day usage of it at all. It actually feels like it's approaching the stability of something like Anki, which is obviously way more mature, has had loads of more people using it and things like that over the years. So yeah, it's definitely feeling like it's really getting to the point where it's hard to argue that it's not the best option for space repetition on the market. I haven't said that before because I hate coming across as like a salesman. I totally get that. But I'm saying I'm being 100% genuine and my feeling I'll just say I'll say it this way. My feeling about the RemNote style of flashcards might change because I don't know. Maybe in three months, I can't recall those in real life. I don't know. I can't say that. But my feeling about the review process and the way it handles flashcards, there's no way that I could say, Oh, Anki's better. It's impossible. It's actually impossible because even if you just use regular flashcards, you just use the exact same wording and style you would. You just organize it under books or subjects or however you want. And you don't use the RemNote style of doing things. The review process itself is miles better than anything else. Not to mention all the image occlusion stuff is so naturally integrated. All the PDF reader stuff. You can easily do image occlusion there without even leaving the tool. I mean, it's that stuff. It works perfectly. It works perfectly. Obviously, like you say, well, the bug thing, I had heard whatever a year ago that RemNote was buggy. But I never, in whatever I never thought much of it. A lot of stuff is buggy. It's a small company's takes time. So I guess I must have joined it a good time because I have run into almost no bugs. Occasionally, I'll spot something where I go, that can't be right. But it's never, it's never a big thing. I've never had a sinking problem. I've never lost data. And when I say that I've only been using it two weeks, I've been using it. I've been using it. Okay, I've made probably a thousand cards, like a new cards cards that I haven't imported. I don't, I think I said that to you privately, but not in the recording. Like new cards, and I've been reviewing every day. I've been adding all kinds of documents, all kinds of stuff, trying out all the features organically, not just to try it out. And I've been totally all in on app for two weeks. And obviously that's not enough time to give a full evaluation of the space for a petition part and the way the cards are structured because space for a petition is a naturally kind of a longer term thing. But just honestly, it has to be the case right now that out of all the tools I've tried and I've tried them all. You can be assured of that unless it's one that I have just never heard of. But I'm obsessed with this. I built my own tools. Like I'm obsessed with this. And it's the best review experience. Not only the act of reviewing, which is very nice. And the way it's styled is very nice. But the actual integration with everything else, the way you can easily change the card, the market is later, all that stuff is number one. So once again, it's an amazing, amazing tool. And I just I have more good things to say about it, which is really odd. Like there's just some odd aspects. So yeah, good. Like once again, I very much apologize that I'm not letting you say very much. But I'm just I've been I've honestly been looking forward to talking with you about it because yeah, no one else I know. Dude, I yeah, so I've never had like someone from I didn't think I know anyone from the Super MMO world or someone who has as much space for petition experience as you actually use Remino and have detailed feedback like this. So this is really useful for me. I think the only other person would be Sauron who works at Remino as well. So yeah, this is it. And by the way, I'd love to talk to Sauron because I think I tried to trace back my initial like what sparked me recently. And I think I even told you in in Discord a while back before I even started using it. Like, oh, I'm intrigued by that concept descriptor stuff. And I think it was because that video you had posted. I don't know for sure, but I think it was that video you had posted about you like deconstructed your article on on computer science, your sub-tech article using the concept descriptor framework. And I was so intrigued by the way you could structure the cards and not not the outlining stuff, but just the way you could basically say this is a concept and these are its attributes. You know, yeah, I just I was so intrigued by that. So I think that was part of it. But then you said, oh, Sauron's made some videos and I wouldn't watch those. And they're very long videos of him actually going through a book in one case and an academic paper in another case and breaking it down in the kind of red note style. Obviously, it's very individualized because nobody thinks about the same thing in exactly the same way. But he was kind of breaking that down and I was even more intrigued than so he's part of the reason I would I would think he's part of the reason that I joined the app in the first place. So I would love to talk to him also. But what I was going to say was, you know, like an earworm like a song you can't stop thinking about. Now I can't stop thinking about not remnote the app, but the way of structuring things. It's like a composure. Like I'm being 100% genuine. I'm being totally serious. Now when I review my regular flash cards because obviously I have tons of regular flash cards that I've made over the years. And so I'm doing my end gear review process. And just I can't I can't help it. I'm thinking how I would lay that out in a concept. And it just comes to me in a flash. It's it's not like I'm thinking through the steps. It's like, oh, I wouldn't put that under this concept. That's the descriptor. And it's like I always think, oh, the wording would be so much simpler. And I really, really, I love at this moment. And this is the only part of it to me that does feel kind of like it could change because I just don't know how it's going to work for me. In a few months, my my intuition right now is that there's a very high probability that it will work exactly as I'm feeling it's working now. But I can be sure. But this is the only part that could change. And but anyway, when I review anything or even just when I'm reading something, I'm just thinking, oh, that's the concept. This is the descriptor. Like always in my mind, always, always, always, it's coming to me all the time. And I just can't stop thinking about it. I don't know how long that's going to last. Like I say, it's only been two weeks, but it's like a compulsion. So there you go. You ruined my brain. But I think you had that. You know what I'm talking about. - Yeah, yeah, we had a meeting the other day and like we were discussing the concept descriptive framework which we should probably define for people. I let you define it after this, but yeah, we were discussing it because we were wondering whether it was too complex for new users 'cause it's harder to explain how to structure things as CDF compared to just a normal question answer style flashcard. And like I think it was either Martin or Sorrow and was like hang on, are we just obsessed with the CDF? Like we got some kind of problem here which should we just be explaining question answer flashcards instead and we just become inconvulsive about this idea. But no, I think there's something actually very special about it, it saw as a ton of problems with traditional flashcard formulation. Like it makes things so much more concise. I think the act of structuring something as in the CDF format is it's like a desirable difficulty in a sense, requires some intelligence to do it. Yes. But not only that, okay, wait, I don't wanna interrupt you. Sorry, go ahead, go ahead. No, no, no, no, I was done. I'm curious to hear you like, can you, are you able to define it for people in a way that you can sense it? Sure, sure, yeah. So in RemNote, like I said, it's an outline or tool based on bullets you can indent infinitely, right? So the way that the concept descriptive framework works, everything in Rem, just this is the first point. And if I get anything wrong, James, you can tell me I'm still new to this offer. But everything in RemNote is what they call a Rem. It's basically just a bullet point. Even documents, everything is a Rem. And so a concept is just another Rem. And it just has some special treatment. I'm chewing gum, I should split this out. I do this every time, sorry about this. Okay, so I just spit out the gum, sorry. So everything in RemNote is a Rem. And so concepts in Rem are just a bullet point a Rem that get a little bit of extra treatment. One thing they do is get bolded, right? So the way you can make a concept, there's multiple ways that are keyboard shortcuts, whatever. So a concept, you just highlight whatever. So you might say DNA and you highlight that as a concept. So you select it. And if you want to immediately give it a definition, what you do is after you type concept, you type colon twice. And that will immediately allow you to give a flash card definition. So what will happen is you'll see the word DNA or the letters DNA in your review process. And you'll be asked to give your definition that you typed after the two colon's, right? And you'll also be given a double sided flash card. So you'll be given the definition and asked to recall what the name of the thing is. Which is by the way, amazing. I'm gonna get back later to some of the amazing aspects, but let me first give the definition. So that's a concept, right? So a concept is anything. And I've tried to start to think of concepts more broadly than like an object or an idea. Like now when I'm writing my notes, I always think, what's the concept? Because the goal you're always trying to get to is be able to describe everything as an attribute of a concept or as a concept itself. You know, it's like I'm obsessed with that notion. So I now think of like when I'm reading history, for instance, and there's some important letter that somebody sent, I'll make a new concept like letter to the Smithsonian in 1899. So that's my concept. Now guess what that gives me. And this is how again, it's the descriptor part. I add a new bullet under that concept. Again, this is just an outline or tool. You just see it enter, then you hit tab to indent and you're under that concept typing a new bullet, right? What a descriptor is, it's basically an attribute of a concept. Think of it like a person, right? If you say this person, their name, you might say age or nationality or eye color. Those are all descriptors, right? Of that person. So a descriptor is that, right? And I think of descriptors a bit more broadly because there are some descriptors I use like Y or that kind of thing that don't obviously feel like an attribute, but they are in my mind they are. And so descriptor is just a bit more broad than that. In the same way that a concept is a bit more broad than the ordinary person's conception of a concept. And anyway, so a descriptor is that. So you indent under the concept and you say whatever your descriptor is, age, and then you type semi colon twice. And now you're typing the answer to that descriptor. So when you review the card, this is the crucial part, okay? It's showing you the concept. It shows every time you review anything in RAM or anything, any flash card in RAM node, you're seeing the whole tree structure starting from the folder that the document's in, to the bullet point, it's under to the concept it's under everything. You're seeing the whole tree structure and then what you're supposed to answer is the blank down part, right? And what that allows is extreme conciseness when you're writing your flash card. So if you have a concept of a person and you type age as a descriptor and you give it whatever, 45, then when you're reviewing, all you're really seeing is age and then a blank spot, right? It's a better design than that. It's actually a very, very beautiful tool, but it's better design than that. So you're seeing age and then a blank spot, but you're also seeing the whole tree structure. So you know what it's asking about. Oh, it's asking about this person, their age, bang, I know that. And think about how much better that is than set in this example's kind of trivial. So you can't see the full advantage, but you wouldn't, you don't have to say how old is so and so, you just say bang, right? And that's so much better. And when you start thinking of, like I say, more things as concepts, when you get all this extra stuff for free, which is why? Okay, mild tangent, just to, this will take 30 seconds. I very often think that when you get the abstraction of anything right, you get all kinds of good behavior for free. And it's kind of hard for me to give concrete examples here, but it's like that in mathematics. It's like that in programming. When you land on the right abstraction, and obviously there are multiple right answers, but it feels to me like there's some, sometimes where you're, you're giving the answer God wants. And it's like you're getting all kinds of stuff for free, stuff you didn't even know you're getting. And that, this is one of those things. So when you land on the right concept, what you get is all kinds of extra concisiveness that you just simply can't get. So in the letter example, I have letter to this Smithsonian in 1899, I can say why sent? Who sent? What, who received it? What did they send back? And now I don't have to say every time when so and so sent a letter to this Smithsonian in 1899, what did they get back? I mean, that's garbage, dude. Like that's terrible. And you know what, here's the worst part of it. Well, I won't say the worst, but a bad part of the fact that this is so much better is that I knew the other way was worse, but I just couldn't figure out it was too locked in. There's no better way to do it. I made one step to improving my regular flashcards, which I've been doing for years. Andy Mintouchec does this in orbit, where you show the provenance of the flashcard above it. It's kind of like references in Super Memo, where you can just see the title of the source, right? And that kind of can allow you to do it. And so what I started to do for years in my regular flashcards, instead of saying, what does so-and-so book say about this? I'll say what does this book say about this, right? So I'm sort of getting at what Remnote is on steroids. You're just using references to the hierarchy of the thing. So in a piece of information is not in a vacuum. The bullet point is not in a vacuum. It's embedded within the structure. And so there are all kinds of beautiful parts about this, but just to sort of wrap up the definition of the concept descriptor framework, you don't have to use that when you're using Remnote. You can make flashcards in any way you want for a bullet or a Rem that's not a concept or a descriptor. You don't have to use it. But the reason to use it is that it encourages you to think of things as concepts, sub-concepts, descriptors, all that. You're constantly thinking to yourself, what are the concepts? And like I say, a lot of times the concepts are non-obvious. You're constructing a concept, which is one of the reasons why concepts are so useful. And this is one of the reasons that why Remnote in general is so useful, because it naturally encourages a personalized building of your model of a given topic. Every time you're writing notes for the topic, you're trying to convert it into concepts. And not always will the author of your text say these are the concepts. Sometimes it is that way. If you're reading a textbook and you're just trying to learn some basic set of terms in the field, sometimes it is that way. But other times it's a phrase or it's a conclusion or it's an idea, stuff like that, where you're building it yourself. Not only are you choosing to label the concepts and how to structure them, what's a sub-concept of something else? What should be its own concept? And then giving it to scriptures. But you're putting all this together. So it naturally encourages. It's basically giving you the toolkit to build your model of the subject. And just perfectly as you said, it's a desirable difficulty. Because in this way, you're building things bit by bit incrementally, if I may say that, your understanding, understanding of a given subject. And in that way, you can understand things so much more rapidly, even if it starts out totally blurry in your mind, because there's too many concepts to play with. Anyway, I've said very much, please, you say something now. I love it. Yeah, yeah, I love everything you say. I think you described it so well, especially what you really got to the heart of is how Remno is very concepts oriented. Like that's the concept basically the core unit almost. Like on the surface, it looks like it's the REM, like everything is a REM, but really the purpose of the tool is to try and figure out, you know, most important concepts, and what you need to know for each concept. And I think the tool is really designed around not just immediately getting the concept from the text, because it's not always obvious. It's almost designed around like gradually refactoring your understanding in your concepts over time, because I don't even know if you've come across like portals and things like that, yeah? Oh yeah, I use them all the time. Oh cool, awesome. Yeah, so like basically you have concepts that exist in your knowledge base, and they don't belong necessarily to any specific source, document, or book, or PDF, article, or anything like that. They kind of exist independently, and you just portal them in to the notes of a PDF that you're reading through or an article, and then you add in additional details to the concept, which stands alone from this specific document. And so you're, you know, all of these different sources and articles and books that you may be reading will all contribute to your understanding of the concept, which you'll refine over time, and you might find that, you know, you need to break it down to different concepts, you need to add more hierarchy, or you know, move things around. Like one thing that you mentioned, like with the letters, like you recognize that there's a certain set of attributes that you might want to know for each letter, like who sent it, why it was sent, a summary of the content. Like you might start studying more and more of these letters, you can actually abstract sort of the sort of set of descriptors out into a template. I don't know if you tried that before, like with tags, and then you start. I have not used a template, but I've used universal descriptors, and that's actually, I have a question about that, but anyway, please show me. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just the tools you have for structuring knowledge and like just incremental sort of sense-making of whatever it is you're trying to understand or learn about is really good. It's basically like an IDE for your knowledge. That's the way I can understand Rememore, and people almost criticize that for it being two-programmery or two-formal or whatever, but I think it's really good. I really like it. I feel the exact same. Let me give, I'll say it this way. It's right now in my life, if I'm trying to understand something new, something that requires the acquisition of new knowledge, I will go right to Remnode. I will not go anywhere else. I'm being 100% sure. It feels so closely aligned with the way that you're actually, like I say, it's the answer God wants. And I don't mean literally like there's no better way to do it. I'm sure there are better ways, but of all the ways I've tried so far, it comes the closest to being naturally aligned with what the brain wants or at least my brain. And I think that kind of earworm effect I was describing to you is a testament to that. It like naturally remapped my mind into thinking like, dang, this is how I do it. I mean, it's like, I honestly think that. I honestly think that must be a testament to its naturalness and fluidity that it just took over my mind in that way. I'm naturally thinking of how to organize things in the concept of scripture framework or just generally how to take notes about something and structure it so that I can understand it. I mean, it took over my mind almost immediately. So I think that's a testament to what you're saying. It's like an IDE for your brain. So anyway, the portal thing, I want to just re-emphasize something you said. The beautiful part about that is that you can take a concept like DNA, for instance. If you're reading a textbook, a biology textbook, you're writing about DNA. So first, you make a DNA bullet point underneath the textbook that you're reading because you don't have DNA in your knowledge base yet and you're just learning about it, let's say. So you write the bullet point there. But then later on, you're reading another book and DNA comes up again and you go, "Oh, I've already written about DNA." So what you do, this is so beautiful. You go to the original textbook where you wrote about DNA and you just do slash M on the bullet point, which is move. Then you say, turn into a top-level REM or you can put it somewhere else if you want. You can put it directly into a biology document instead of directly in that textbook, let's say, whatever you wanted to do. But now that REM is its own thing. It's disconnected from that textbook per say. And now, if you go and portal it by default, now in that textbook, it's a portal, which is basically like a copy of a REM, but any way you, anytime you change it there, it changes in the source too. And vice versa sometimes. But what's cool about that is that when you portal in a REM to a new document or a new REM, it doesn't show all the bullet points for the thing you portal in. Because sometimes you might not want that. All you're trying to do is add some new information to it that you're learning from this new source. So you're reading another book about DNA. And so you portal in DNA and you only add the details there that you're learning from that book. That way, when you're looking over your notes for that book, you see DNA and only the bullet points that you added there. But when you go back to the source REM of DNA, you'll see everything you've ever added. And obviously with the bi-directional linking and all that, you'll be able to see where everything came from. Not that the being able to track down the source of everything is always that useful. But that way, if you do ever want to go look back at your notes for a book, it's not all messed up with everything you've ever learned about every topic that's ever mentioned in that book. That doesn't make sense. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I, the portal workflow is so cool. I mean, I think that's really what makes things click for me. Like you have these abstractions concepts and then you build on them incrementally from lots of different angles, like from lots of different sources. And you're always, you know, adding to the same abstraction, but only adding, you only have the reference context that you need, you know, that you only have the context that you actually want. Right. Yeah, super cool. And like I say, the nice part about being able to so easily move everything is that you don't have to know the important abstractions beforehand. You might not know that there's a universality to a given concept that you're reading about in a book. So you don't have to make it a top level RAM by default. That's fine because you don't even know whether you're going to learn more about it. And so maybe you don't want to. So you just make it a concept there. And then later on, because RAM note is so easily searchable, like you would just hit command P, which for me, I have coming from a text that it like VS codes, warm text, that's so natural to just go command P, like I'm searching now everything. And it's very, very fast. And you can easily find anything. I've never tried to find something. Obviously, I have a small sample size of two weeks and not been able to find it instantly, like within two seconds. So there you go. That's, that's the testament to how good the search is. But, um, yeah. So that's the nice part. You can always only abstract to the level that makes sense to you at the time. And then if you happen to need more because you're learning more about that subject or you're wanting to go deeper into a particular aspect, it's no problem whatsoever. You quickly navigate to that RAM, move it, bang, you're good to go. It portals it there. You make a new portal in your original document and you're off to the races. You can add some context there. I mean, it or some content, I mean to say. And so it's, I don't know, I just, I love that. There are so many things about it that I love. Okay, for instance, here's one very interesting thing. And I'd be very curious to know your thoughts on this. In my regular flashcards, I'm very hesitant to say, uh, let me, what's a good example? Who is Archduke Franz Ferdinand or who was? Whatever you want to say? I'm not going to make a regular flashcard that's like, oh, he was heir to the Ashaw and Gary and Empire and his assassination triggered World War One. I'm not going to write a card like that because I always think in my mind, and I guess I didn't know I was thinking this, but I was. Well, I guess I kind of knew it. But when I was writing an ordinary flashcard, you know, just regular question that looks like a question and an answer, I was kind of writing or trying to write what would be the canonical answer. That doesn't mean the full answer, but it's really unobjectionable. You look at the front side and the backside follows from that. And the reason I was doing that is not out of some pure, technical idea that at these cards should be universal. It was more so my belief about what makes an effective flashcard and in the way that it triggers recall in your brain. So I would try to make something more special. specific. So, Franz Ferdinand was the heir to which empire? Oh, Ashawangaria. His assassination triggered what? World role, you know what I'm saying? More specific questions like that. But the problem with deconstructing something like that. Well, I don't know if it's a problem per se, but you don't get this, this really beautiful delineated connection between in this case, a person and their significance. It like adds more steps in a mind. Whereas in Remnote, and I don't know why this is because it must just be some aspect of the tool that feels like it's giving implicit permission or maybe because I had watched videos of people doing it. But now if I type Archduke, Franz Ferdinand, I'm very apt to give a simple description of his overall significance. And what am I really trying to do there? It's almost like you're programming your thoughts. That's really almost what it's like. You're thinking when I see this guy's name, this is what I want to think. Now again, this part may turn out to be wrong. It may be in three months, those cards don't work for me. I can't say that for sure. But right now my feeling is extremely positive because I get to choose what I will think of and what I consider the correct thing to think of at the surface level when thinking of that person or that thing, that concept, whatever it may be. And so that to me, this this kind of implicit permission, almost encouragement to program your thoughts, because that's how you want to think. You want to think DNA, what's that thing? I have like an answer. I know what it is. You don't only know its attributes. You know what it is overall. You know, when you think of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, you know who he was overall. You don't only know that he was involved with the Archduke, you know, all those kinds of things, not to get too esoteric with those, those specific examples, but you see what I mean about that? Do you feel the same way? What's that once I just got a jump outside for a sec? No problem. Oh man, sorry about that. I'm bad. No problem. Yeah, so I don't know if this is exactly what you're saying, but like something that I was thinking about when you're saying that was like after using the descriptors as flashcards, like I find that using just the normal like definition style of flashcard is much less effective for me. Like the kind of card that I would make before, like you were saying, like, what's the significance of Franz Ferdinand? Like that's the kind of card that I'd now definitely no longer make in Remnote. Like inside, I would break that down into much smaller descriptors that are much less ambiguous, I guess. Yeah. But not even just that, like the definition of a concept, do you feel in a certain way? Like it's a kind of deliberate programming of your thoughts. Do you feel that? Do you mean like, so when you write like the name of a concept and then press colon, colon, define it like that. I'm not sure. Like I have tended to stay away from those, I think now, because it feels like unless you're really careful, it falls into the same trap to me as writing like what is DNA or what's a defined DNA or something like that? Like I always find that I mess those flashcards up because of time, I forget specifically what I was thinking about at the time, related to DNA. Like there's so many different ways you can define a concept, especially if you're working on things where it's not a clearly defined concept, it might be something that you've created. Like the name of a concept that you've created because you're working on a particular problem and it requires you to understand something weird that doesn't have a clear definition or something like that. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know, I found that I prefer to just have everything in descriptors like broken down into small parts, but that's an interesting. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not sure. Well, in my use so far, most concepts, I don't give them a description just because like you say, it wouldn't make sense. There's there's not like a single way to describe it or I don't even know whether it has like a real full easily easily stateable definition per se. But sometimes I feel like what I'm trying to do is associate in my mind this definition with this thing. And so I write the definition and I would, okay, so I have to say, I think a lot of why I've been able to get so much use out of things like that is that I am, I'm very, very good. This is a modest, but I'm very, very good at writing flashcards. I understand very clearly how how the memory works in relation to flashcards, at least for the most part. And so part of it is because of that, I would say like I know how to write a description or a definition, let's say, of a concept that makes sense as an answer to a flash card and is not easily forgettable. But at the same time, like I say, you might end up being right in three months, those questions just could be too fuzzy because they don't ask something specific enough. And I might just need to stick more to descriptors. But right now, my feeling is like, if I want to program my brain to think when I see this concept, I think of this thing, then I can easily do that. And so, yeah, let me, let me emphasize a few more points, something weird about doing descriptors. And this seems especially true if you do universal descriptors, it's almost like you can train your brain. And again, this stuff could totally fall away in the next few months. But right now, this is my experience, it's almost like you can train your brain to think of the same things. Like when you think about a topic, you're thinking, what's the, you know, what's the evidence for that? Or what's the significant, you know, you're thinking about the same attributes? Because a universal descriptor for people that don't know, again, everything in round note is a REM. So universal descriptor, just by convention, it actually has no special treatment in the tool. It's just an idea. It's like a weighted, organized something. It's a little bit has no as far as I can tell, no extra functionality in the tool. It's typically just by convention, a REM that starts with what do you call that line at a tilde? The thing you do is for basically like roughly or about that kind of thing. That squiggly line. It starts with that. And then it's just some attributes. So, you know, that line and then analogy or example of, right? So now that's a REM, a bullet point that you can reference. So now when you're typing your descriptor, instead of just typing the word age, and then doing semi colon twice to give the answer, you might want to reference that universal descriptor of age. And that has a few benefits. Obviously, you can look at that age REM and see everywhere to you. Is that kind of interesting? But really where it's more interesting to me is a kind of encouragement of formalizing your thoughts about certain subjects. So, you know, what's the significance? And over time, I think this is my guess, obviously, it's only been two weeks. But my guess is that you, you know, in your mind, when I use this universal descriptor, this is what I mean. And so you get all this extra benefit of using like a singular object, instead of retiping the words, because you can be sure you can color code it however you want all those kinds of things. You can be sure what you mean. And so that gives you some extra benefit. And so in that way, it's kind of like a pattern of thoughts that you're instilling where you're thinking about this subject, then you think, Oh, what's the evidence for that? So evidence for is that could be a universal descriptor or significance of that could be another descriptor or example of those kinds of things claim evidence against what all those kinds of things could be universal descriptors. And in this way, you can kind of train your brain to think, Okay, what are the arguments for that? What is the evidence against it? All those kinds of things. So you don't have to worry that you're not going to think of the right thing, you know? Exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's actually really interesting, something we've been looking at recently, I think this was Martin's idea as well, is because a lot of the people who use Ramno medical school students, we were trying to come up with basically sets of types of concepts in medicine. So things like disease or treatment or drug and then come up with lists of descriptors for each of those concept types and then try and build out like a big set of those. I mean, I think the idea that Martin, the name that Martin gave this was like the stable idea bundle. So each, each concept has like a bundle of ideas that you know, that you should know for it, if you're going to become like a medical professional. But yeah, I think if you're just like a regular user, like the process of learning is almost coming up with your own set of st stable idea bundles for whatever domain is that you're interested in and slowly refining it over time and adding to your universal descriptors so that whenever you think of a certain idea or concept in your domain, you can say, "Okay, what type of thing is that and what attributes do I typically need to know about that thing?" Can I record them if I can't, and he's going to look them up or learn about them? Yeah. Exactly. It's almost like a much better version of a memory palace. I don't know if you've ever used one, but it's like, "Yeah, yeah." You know how you store information and you just have to go back and look at it, you know, and then you know it. And so in that way, it kind of seems to me like you're programming your brain to think, "This is where I store that." So you just go look again. But it's natural. It's a real memory, so it'll come up naturally too. So that's the advantage there. That stable idea thing, I think that's very interesting. And by the way, one of the things that gives me confidence about Remnote and the way that it works is the fact that Martin is not a moron. You know what I'm saying? So many of these guys who build these tools, I look at them and I think, "That guy's not smart." And again, not to be arrogant about it, but it's just like, "How am I supposed to trust this tool when the guy who builds it does nothing?" You know, the guy does nothing. Like, I just don't like that. But Martin, he went to MIT, not going to MIT as some kind of holy grail, but the guy is legitimately intelligent. You can know that right away. By the way, he's a native speaker of English, right? Yes, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. I just wasn't sure. I thought he may have been born some else. But anyway, yeah, I really appreciate the fact that he's clearly a smart guy and that the examples he gives are not easy things. They're not easy topics in general, but really what I mean is they're not easy things to write flashcards about. Like when he shows his computer science notes, presumably from MIT, or you just look at the examples, I would guess some of them are from him. But they're complex stuff about algorithms, data structures, this kind of thing. And that to me is kind of a proof of concept that you can apply this to anything in the world. And in fact, where it really shines is the more complex you get, the better it is. It's like this way of doing things, of breaking down everything in the concepts and sub concepts and concepts and descriptors. This way allows you to understand more complex things. So in a way, I think it really shines the more complex you get, which is really a testament to the power of the tool. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think with the hierarchical structure, it especially lends itself to, well, at least it might experience so far, like I found it to be extremely useful for math, which is just, you know, so it's a perfectly hierarchical area of study because you start with the axioms and you slowly build up. So it lends itself so well to the hierarchy. But yeah, I mean, obviously for basically anything can be decomposed into a hierarchy of sorts. And then if you need graph-like elements as well, you can do that with like the references and stuff like that. So it should be possible to encode any kind of knowledge inside Remy and like represent it well with the structure and everything. So yeah, it's a super flexible tool, really open-ended. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And by the way, since we can keep going on about this forever, I just want to ask Rick, like how much more time you got? Oh, no, dude, I've got as much time as you need. Yeah. It's been really interesting to hear your thoughts so far on it. Yeah, I hope people are not upset with me for a completely bullying conversation, but I'm just I love the tool, dude. I'm being I can't believe that it's a good tool. Like I I honestly thought, oh, it's just another outline or tool. Like there's no way it's that good. And I even think I thought at one point, although I'm not sure that the concept descriptor stuff, I didn't know the terms, but the way the cards were written, I thought, how can that work? Like I don't know if people have seen it, but so often you'll write cards like, or you'll see people write cards like how works or why works or why why happened stuff like that where it's not even phrased like a question, it's just word like a couple of words, you know, and I would think because I'm so obsessed with flashcards, I mean, you know how obsessed I am with flashcards like it's psychotic behavior, you know, and I would think there's no way that works. I mean, from this conversation, you know, this man is the he thinks of flashcards probably a thousand times a day, nothing else is on his mind, which is flashcards. And it's like this, we've been honest, that's been the case for 10 years. It literally has been 10 years of me thinking of flashcards almost every day of my life. Like this man has been in 10,000 hours into flashcard formulation, okay? At least, yes, and if there's any subject in which I am an expert in life, it's flashcard formulation. And so I thought there's no way that works, but you know what, I think I was just flat wrong. If I ever thought that, you must have been a couple of years ago, because it wasn't recent, because when I saw your video, my thought was, that's very interesting. So I must have either changed my mind or I'm recalling it incorrectly, but I think I did think that it was not going to work. But now I've totally changed my mind. In fact, I've gone into reverse, like you say, I never write those normal cards anymore. And in fact, to be totally honest, I hate reviewing my Anky cards. I hate it now, because every time I see it, I go, this could be so much better. Like, I hate reading all these words. And not because, oh, it's laborious to read the words. It's like, I'm not capturing the idea. Because of the necessity of language, when you're writing in full sentences, you have to qualify everything. You have to specify what you're referring to, give the context. And when you're reviewing a regular card, it's like, this sucks so bad compared to what it could be. And I had always wanted to simplify the way that things were worded, like I say, with the provenance and all that. But I was like locked in to the existing structure of Anky and Super Memo and all that stuff. It's not possible to do it, at least with the way that I've thought about it, without something like this hierarchical structure where you're embedding naturally within its context. So you don't have to reiterate that context in the phrasing of every question. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's all in Remnote. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. It's almost like at a certain point, it's like a new kind of language for writing cards that's more concise. Exactly. Yeah. It's really, really useful. Exactly. Yeah. And what I was going to say was if you notice yourself in Remnote, we're writing the same bit of context for multiple cards. Guess what? You make a new bullet point, maybe it's a concept. And then you just nest those under it. So now you've saved yourself. You don't have to rewrite that. That's fine. It's just now. And that's a natural emergence of a concept. I mean, isn't that fantastic? I mean, that's, oh, I love it, dude. I'm sorry. I'm so effusive. It must be so annoying, like especially to you in listeners, like, I'm sorry, but this is my honest feeling. Yeah. It's like you're watching the process of what was called conceptualization happening before your eyes, you know, every time you indent under a concept and create a new concept under it and then use that to shorten a bunch of other flashcards. You're seeing the value of conceptualization in terms of being able to compress your knowledge and make it more abstract and understand it better. It's a really cool, enjoyable process. It makes the process of flashcard writing becomes really enjoyable. It's fun to see how you construct your things better over time as you understand them better. Yeah. Exactly. It's so beautiful. And like you say, it's fun to write them. And you're really concretely adding to your understanding every time you add a new concept or a descriptor. And it's fast to write them. The actual act of writing them is fast. One thing I have noticed, and this is just, it'll take practice, is that writing the notes, it's like significantly more time consuming than, because I've been for like maybe a year now, the bulk of my flashcards been written by AI. So I've just been building tools for myself. And it's been very, very fast. So writing the notes kind of takes longer than what I've been used to recently. But it's getting faster already. It's just a, I have to get used to this way of breaking everything down. But sometimes you're thinking, well, gee, what is the concept? You know, like where does it go? And but again, that's desirable difficulty. If you're really trying to understand something and it's important to you, you want to wrestle with it. You want to go, where does that fit? What are its details? What's the significant? You want to think all those things. You want to really wrestle with it. And so in some way, that's good. But also, I think it just takes some practice and you get better. But the actual act of writing the flashcards is so fast. It's so natural. It's like I say, once you get the abstraction right, you get all this stuff for free. And even in the concept of your own or in the context of your own notes, once you get the concept right, you get all this stuff for free. You get all the wording for free, everything. So it's like you're getting to the right answer incrementally there. And just to so I'll make a couple more general points. And I also want to circle back around to the universal descriptive things so I can ask you about how properties work. But yes, I have this review tool because I built my own tool for for reading e pubs and taking highlights and reviewing them incrementally and all this stuff because no other tool supports that for some reason. And so I've been reading in there for a couple years. And so I have thousands and thousands of highlights. So I do my reviews. Right. So I show one highlight at a time. But when I started using Remnote, guess what? It's like the highlights are begging to be put into some hierarchical structure. Like you can't review one highlight of a book, especially if you don't have existing notes on a book and find out how it fits in some hierarchy. It almost doesn't make sense because you're only seeing a small bit of information. And so I built this new feature in my tool called what I'm calling windowed review. It's literally just taking you right to the part of the book where that highlight is. And so if I want to scroll up and see like what's the surrounding context so I can write better notes and Remnote about it, I can easily do that. And so that's been a hugely positive thing for me. But again, I think that that comments on or that's a testament to the naturalness of Remnote's structure where I kind of feel like it's now intuitive and natural for the highlights to be broken out of this cage of only showing one bit at a time. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, like I think I don't know if you tried the incremental everything plug in on Remnote, like that's one of the things that's one of the advantages it has, I think, over SuperMemo. And I basically just embedded the PDF viewer in the queue. So when you review a highlight, it just opens the PDF viewer and like zooms you to the highlight in the context of whatever it was you were reading, which is which is actually really useful. But that's something from SuperMemo that was kind of annoying, like although it does have its advantages in some sense, like you could call it a desirable difficulty to separate a particular phrase or paragraph from its context, because then you have to recreate it in your brain and that can be like a creates exercise or just learning exercise in itself. But often it's just, yeah, it's more useful to have the surrounding context there so you can understand it and make better notes on it. Right, exactly. So would you actually recommend that I try the incremental everything to be honest, I kind of thought it's just like trying to make the tool into something that it isn't, but I didn't try it and think that I just thought it's like that's what it's doing. So is that wrong. You can give it a go, you can see what it's like, I mean, I tried to make it real with me, you don't have to, you don't have to be honest, is it a good tool. It's pretty good. I mean, it's no super memo, I mean, lacks all of the advanced features, but it tries to, it's the best possible attempt of like integrating that kind of thing into Remno using Remno's native features as much as possible. Like all of the way you create an incremental RAM is by tagging it with a power up. And so when you tag something with a power up, that means that you can collect all of those things into a table and then filter that table or whatever. So you immediately are able to create subset reviews, just using Remnets tabling system and then review them in the queue. And obviously properties, you can use them. Sorry, for priorities that are implemented using properties as well. So you can sort tables of incremental RAM by their priorities are their next due dates or whatever or integrate the databases and table system quite nicely. And then yeah, they're just interleaved in your queue in the same way that they would be in super memory, I guess. That's the part I'm wondering, what if I just want to review my flashcards? How do I do that? I basically just copied the, what's it, the priority slider from super mo so you can slide like I want to see like one flashcard for every one incremental RAM for every five flashcards or you can just turn it to be only flashcards or only ran. I see. Okay, well, that's very nice. Maybe I'll give it a go. By the way, speaking of plugins, the universal descriptor quick access plugin. I think that's what it's called. It doesn't work for me. I don't know why. Yeah, I think there must be some kind of bug for that. I'll look into fixing it next week. Yeah, because I just, I literally, I can't get to work. I typed the, I typed the tilde and nothing comes up. So I don't know what to do. Kind of bug or that. If there's some kind of log you need me to check or whatever, just let me know. But anyway, yes, so that's one thing. Another thing you mentioned properties. I guess I don't understand properties and I thought I did. But what makes me think I don't is that when I imported the Remnote suggested list of universal descriptors, it imported two documents for me, which was Remn with an alias, which I guess is a power up. And it just marked that as a document for some reason, which may be a bug in the import feature. I don't know. But also it had this list of universal descriptors. And they're all marked as properties. What are they a property of? What does it mean? Let me see. So property is very similar to a descriptor, essentially, but it has like a data type. So they, like, for example, they're kind of integrated with the table system. So in tables, you have columns and they can have data types, like number, string or data, whatever. So property is just basically like a descriptor, but it has a data type and also some other features as well. Like it can be shown in a particular position in the outliner. Like you can show it on the right side as if it was a tag or you can show it just as a normal RAM or let's see, there's a bunch of other places you can display them as well. So they kind of like a descriptor with some extra options, but yeah, basically a descriptor. So because when I read the documentation for properties, it was basically saying the properties have to do with tags. So they're basically saying, you know, if you have a chemical element and you tag that, then each chemical element will have, you know, an atomic number, whatever else. And so that's a property, that atomic number and whatever other attributes you want to know. So, but when you, when you make a universal descriptor in the list of them into a property, what, what tag is it a property of? I guess I, that's the part I don't get. If, if properties are about tags, what's that? What's the tag? What is it? Oh, I see what you mean. I think you can just create a property that doesn't belong to a tag. If you want. I wonder if I just missed that in the, in the help documents or if it's outdated or something. If you could just go to a document and type slash property, then you can click enter and it'll just create, it will turn the current RAM into a property, but it won't belong to a particular tag or. Okay, okay, so that's very useful to know. So I think I'm not certain about this, but I think the help document may be wrong or at least misleading in that way. So, oh, I might be misleading as well. Like, okay, so if you, yeah, okay. I will, I will ask Soren. Okay, yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, I just, I was so confused. I couldn't understand. I was thinking, how is it a property? What, of what? Because if a property has to do with the tag, I wasn't tagging it with anything before I was using a universal descriptor that was a property. I was just thinking like it doesn't make sense, but I see. Also, when it imported that RAM with an alias document, really what it was, what it seemed to be doing, it was like in the universal descriptor page, it was a portal of RAM with an alias. Does that make sense? Oh, man, I don't know. Let me think. So like, those were those descriptors inside a portal. Yeah, I think I'm remembering that right. This was, I guess last night I was doing this, but I couldn't figure out why is it a portal? And I also couldn't figure out why the RAM with an alias, what that was, why it was suddenly showing on my sidebar. And I think it was just because that's a power up by default. And it had just been marked as a document when I imported the list of universal descriptors. This is not this can't be interesting for people to listen to. I'm sorry now. Now I really am sorry that we're talking about this, but. So you said I just wanted to know the answer, but anyway, at least that's something. I couldn't figure out why they, why do they have an alias and why was it portal? I guess it didn't make sense. But anyway, we can talk about that offline or in private messages. But anyway, so dude, we could honestly, we could keep going on and on and on, honestly about this. But we've been going on for an hour and something, so we should probably wrap it up here. But anyway, just to sum it up, thank you to everybody who makes Rem note. It's far and away, far and away. The best flash got review tool and there's so many aspects of it that I know just from a depth perspective, must be so, so difficult to get right and it's nailing it. And also, this is an under emphasized point. With every single outliner tool like Rem or Rome and and logsec and there are a bunch of them. They're all ugly, dude. They all suck. They're all ugly and they're good tools, but they're ugly. Rem note is not ugly and I can't account for that. I don't know how it's possible. It used to be ugly. I've seen a video with Martin where he was talking with who's that guy Rob something Rob hates. Yeah, he pays Phil to something. And that it was so ugly, dude. And so I'm glad it's not ugly anymore. But I understand why it was because I've been in a situation he was probably working on it by himself. And everything I make by myself is ugly because I have design skills. And so, yeah. So anyway, I'm so happy. It's a beautiful tool and there are so many parts about it. They're so, so awesome. It's constantly being improved. It's very stable now. And I just I'm very, very grateful that the tool exists and it's also very inexpensive. You guys should charge more for it. But anyway, that's that. Oh, just one more question. Like, how do you think what do you think would be the best way to cause cause I actually probably should have said this at the beginning because this entire podcast is going to sound like it was a paid ad or something. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. You didn't I want to say this first. Before you say whatever you're going to say. You never even told me like, you ought to try Remnode. It's so good. And to be honest, I'm a little upset by that because it feels like it feels like, you know, the economist joke, oh, if there were a $20 bill on the ground, somebody would have picked it up, you know, but for me, there were $20 bills all over and I wasn't picking them up. I didn't know. Yeah. There you go. You should have told me. Anyway, go ahead, please continue. I think that just your response to that, like the thing is, it's almost like when you want to introduce Anki or just super remote to your friend or something or space repetition in general, it's hard to sell it without coming across as preachy or as a salesman or something like that. You kind of just need someone to discover it for themselves or at least discover the seeds for themselves. And then they can kind of figure it out. And if it is good, then people will catch on, right? Yeah, I'm definitely curious about how to spread it more. Like I think that's one thing where remnants really struggles over the past couple of years. And for it, to a large extent, it makes sense because we're focusing on just improving the tool and making it more stable and things like that, building out the features set and everything. But the marketing has definitely been like something that we've been bad at, I guess, over the period where I've been there at least. Like how do you think what's the road to making remnant like the default space repetition tool over Anki, if you know what I mean? That's a very interesting question. I've hand for you. I'm not going to be able to give a satisfying answer because it's actually quite a complex thing about branding and marketing. And that stuff is never as easy as people like to make it seem. Unless you're Steve Jobs, maybe. But one thing, okay, so like I was watching Martin's videos and the titles of them and the approach he was taking, I'm so intrigued by Martin. I want to see more about his, his, his, whatever you call it, remnant collection. I don't know what it's called. Yeah, yeah. I just want to see more of what's in it. But the, the approach he's taking in his videos, which makes sense because these type of videos that get views is to make like four steps or five steps or, you know, like sort of very polished approaches and stuff. And I'm sure those, it's like good information in those videos. I like them. But to me, it kind of feels like targeted to a different demographic. It's not me target. That's being targeted by that. It's more like students and stuff. And I understand that's the use case for most people that are going to use it. So maybe that's a good idea. But for me, those videos didn't resonate as much as like just watching you. And once I had seen, and I was intrigued by it and I go and watch those Martin videos, then it makes more sense to me. Like as a user of the tool, I'm using the tool and I'm just trying to get glimpses of how he uses it. So I'll wait until a moment. He shows something that looks to be from his actual remnant collection. And I'll pause there and just see how's he doing that. Because like, there are a lot of things where I don't know if I'm doing it like the quote unquote right way. And there's obviously no right way. But like, do I put another bullet under a descriptor and just say why again? Or like, it doesn't make sense in my mind to have a descriptor of a descriptor. You know, so is that a regular flashcard that's not a descriptor? So it's things like that. I'm always looking for little bits. So in that way, his videos have been helpful to me. But really what it took for me was just watch someone doing it organically. And then you go, wow, I would love to do it that way too. So I don't know how scalable that advice is. But anyway, yeah, I can certainly think about it more. But again, if people listen to this podcast and have not tried it, you should try it. Like I will be an evangelist for Remno until there's a better tool that comes along. I have no allegiance. I know James works on it. But you know, I'm not going to say it's a good tool just because he works on it. That's maybe I'm not a good enough friend. But that's the way I think about it. I would never, ever even think of doing it. I benefit none from saying it's a good tool. So I'm saying it's a good tool because it is one. So if you're a user space repetition and you have not tried it, please try Remnode. And even the free version, it has too many features for being free. You guys should remove some honestly. You need more money for how good the tool is. Like remove most of those features. Do it. Only let people try a little bit for free. Like, if you're working hard on this tool and there's a lot of developers working on it, more money needs to come in. People need to be rewarded for building something good. So if possible, charge more money and remove some of those free features. Honestly, it doesn't make sense at least to me. Yeah. Please, if someone's listening, maybe this video will get, you know, listen to by people that don't normally listen to this because of the content. But if you have not tried Remnode, try it. You'll like it. I'm almost certain. Yeah, awesome. Yeah, I'd love to see people trying it, especially people from the SuperMemo Discord and from that region. And give me back on it. Like it's been super useful to hear you talking about it. And it'd be fun and future to do maybe an episode on the economics of a space for repetition app. Like, that's been interesting to see. Yeah. For sure. That's good. That's what I'll say. They're not that good. At least in my own experience, like I tried to build one with George Zoningus. We worked on Dendro. He worked on it longer than me. He was the original founder. And then I joined him for a while, like multiple years. And it was more of an incremental reading tool. It was not targeted at students per se. It was even more asaltary in a certain way than Remnode. And it was just so like getting people interested in that kind of tool. It's way more difficult than you think. And making a profit on it is way more difficult than you think. And so, yeah, I totally understand that there. But what sucks for me about that is like, I know that if more people use Remnode, they would be able to understand things more readily and more deeply. And that's why I'm mentioning it. If I didn't think it would actually help people achieve their goals in a meaningful way, like now I don't only take notes about books I'm reading and stuff. I'm like, I'm working on a project or I solve some problem. And because of the way the concept of script or framework works, I don't have to say, what I solve this problem on such and such date in this project, how did I do it? I just go project name, that's the document, and then bug where whatever. And then I go solution, whatever, cause other aspects. That's what makes it so great, dude. And in this way, you can absorb everything from your life, just very, very easily tag it, say, I want to remember that forever, bang, you will. It's like even more capitalizing on the dream of making memory a choice that Michael only wants to line about what space repetition does. It's even more capitalizing on that. So I'm being totally sincere. If nobody is, if you're listening to this and you haven't tried, try it. And honestly, I believe that it will add real value to your life. >> Hell yeah. All right, guys, it's in the next one. >> All right, bye-bye.