'God, will you be my daddy?' - Discovering the Unconditional Father Heart of God

Season 2 Episode 14. Carry shells with Sarah Barton Part 1. God, will you be my daddy? Discovering the unconditional father heart of God. I would say Dad didn't know how to love me. I felt like I was in the way. I felt like I was in nuisance. And he would have these moments where I would do something wrong. I didn't know what I'd done wrong. You'd have those conversations with the kids at school. And they'd go, "Oh, my dad's a policeman." And I'd go, "I haven't got a dad." So it was always this feeling of outside, not belonging. And when it comes to praying the Lord's Prayer, our father who are in heaven, I just didn't get it. It was at this moment where I just began to get a kernel of the father's heart. So I understood God as creator. You know, the one who can part the seas and do all these amazing miracles. But a father, no, don't understand that. Dad's a angry or they're just not there. Before we get into today's exciting episode, I'd love to share some news with you. Did you know that we're now a charity called Carry Shells Media and we're excited to launch our brand new website? Log on to Carry ShellsMedia.com and you will find all our podcast episodes as well as an introduction to our fabulous team. Want to share your own stories of faith on a Carry Shells episode? Well, get in touch via our website. There's even the chance to become a Carry Shells supporter and find out more about upcoming events. You see, everything we do at Carry Shells Media is you funded and we can't thank you enough for your incredible support. Every gift matters and you make Carry Shells happen. Talking of which, we would love to see you at our first fundraising event on Saturday, 25th April from 7 o'clock at Rigeight Baptist Church, UK time. In addition to meeting the team behind the charity, we're excited to invite you to be part of the audience for our very first live podcast episode with a special guest, Lydia Bennett, from Premier Christian Radio. Lydia will be telling us about her own ups and downs with faith, giving us a unique peek into life the other side of the Premier Mike. So join us and be inspired and empowered in your pursuit of God. Please sign up via the Carry ShellsMedia.com website which will take you to our partner church, Rigeight Baptist Church, who are kindly hosting the event. Tickets are £10 each. If you can't make it in person, don't worry. You can sign up to receive an online streaming link so that you can join us from your living room. And now let's get back to the episode. Well, hello and welcome back to Carry Shells. I'm Catherine Grimes, I'm your host and it's always amazing to connect with you. Beautiful listeners of faith all around the world. This is Carry Shells which is a very special place for you to not just listen to the stories that amazing women are sharing on this podcast but also consider what are the stories that God is writing in your life. So we want you to be inspired, we want you to be connected but we also want you to be empowered. We want you to be empowered to look for what God is doing in your life and have the boldness and the beautiful opportunity to throw good news into the airwaves around you and via broadcast as well. So without further ado, I have a beautiful guest here with me today. This is Sarah, Sarah Barton, hi Sarah. Hi Catherine. And you may have gathered that we are connecting today via Zoom. So we're going to put in a little disclaimer and just say if there's any sound glitches we do apologise but we will do our best to maintain the amazing content of this podcast today. So Sarah is a 55 year old Essex girl. She's now living in the heart of Wales. She's married to Mike and she's mum to two grown children. With work experience as a nurse in end of life care, a lecturer, also to nurses, and even an egg collector on a farm, which is very apt given our Easter season. She's had a few jobs over the years. However, it's only in the last decade that she's found out what she really wants to do when she's grown up and what's that. Well, Sarah is over the moon to be involved with restoring the foundations ministry for the UK and Europe and she's completely committed to seeing men and women discover what it is to walk in freedom with Jesus. When she gets the chance for some time out, you will find her embracing her inner intrepid, enjoying her granny hobbies of gardening, crochet, baking and reading. So Sarah, welcome. Fantastic, have you. Thank you for inviting me. I'm so excited to be able to give you the chance to share your story with us today because I've had some sneak peeks and previews, but I know that God's been doing so much in your life, Sarah. And it's really beautiful to discern that thread of his faithfulness running throughout it. But for listeners here, we need to explain that there are two parts to your story and it's a long story. So for that reason, we're actually going to give you two episodes. Look at you over the next month. Today, we're going to unwrap your first 21 years and how God met you in unexpected places through that time. He taught you an incredible truth of his faithful, father heart. And that's what we really want to focus in on today. So Sarah, kick off then by taking us back to your earliest childhood memories. Can you set the scene for us? What was it like growing up in a village in Essex? It wasn't an easy childhood. I think if you had to put a word over it to describe those sort of first five years of my life, I think it would be fear. That was definitely the hallmark. My mum and dad got married when they were very young, which for the late '60s, that wasn't unusual to get married at sort of 21, but they were definitely very wounded, very immature, 421. So for a marriage that was built on that kind of relationship, you can expect that there were a lot of cracks. And unfortunately, their idea of mending those cracks was to have a baby, which was me. I read in a book a while ago now that the babies who come into the world to try and mend a broken marriage are often called sticking plus the babies. And that's definitely how it felt. It felt like a lot of pressure from a very young age to kind of be the one to fix things, to make things better. And yeah, it was very, very hard. My mum with hindsight and with my medical experience, I can look back and go, "Wow, she had mental health issues long before she had me." But I think having me and the state of the marriage and the relationship, it sort of turned the volume up on those mental health issues for her. So she quickly developed postnatal depression. And my dad didn't cope with that at all. So he started to drink not excessively, but it was what got him through the day. It was that kind of drinking and a few days after my first birthday, my dad left. So my mum had this wonderful rhyme that she would recount on a regular basis, but it gives a good picture of how quickly the spiral was. She said she used to say, "We got married in '69. I was pregnant in 1970. You were born in '71 and your dad left in '72." So it's this four-year picture of just such heartbreak, really. So it was shortly after he left that my mum had a full-blown nervous breakdown. And the treatment at the time was to give high doses of valium, which we all now know is not a good, untidy present. It is highly addictive. My mum became addicted to prescription medication very quickly. So my earliest memories of my mum are her either sobbing uncontrollably or in a very heightened state of anxiety all the time. I was actually looking back over some of my journals. And one of the memories that I had written down from that time was wiping my mum's face, wiping the tears off of her face and going, "They're their mummy." Those were some of my earliest words. It was definitely that theme of having been born to make something else that was broken better. And now my mum's falling apart. And as a toddler going, "They're their mummy, trying to make it better for her." A real role reversal, ultimately Sarah, because of course you were the caregiver to your mum instead of her doing it for you. And I mean, what you've described there, Sarah? Gosh, I mean, it's a childhood that. You said the volume was really amplified, turned up on those mental health issues for your mum. So mental health was in the mix addiction to volume. You talked about fear for you as a young girl. So, in bioping all of those really tough realities and one other which actually I know you haven't touched on yet but you'll give us more detail on actually. You were living in quite a poor setting where you know, obviously it was also part of that mix. So with those four together, I think the question to ask you Sarah is how as a young girl did that leave you in your sense of self and I suppose conversely was school a place of refuge for you? Yeah. I mean, what it left me with was a very heightened state of anxiety all the time because again with all of the issues that my mum had, life was very unpredictable. There would be times when you know long periods of time when my mum would be locked away in her room and I wouldn't see her for weeks at a time all I would hear is this crying, her pacing, the floor and all sorts of things. And then I would go to school, I would come home and then all of a sudden she's high and she's laughing and cleaning everything within sight. So it was this sense of one minute I'm having to tiptoe around and be very, very quiet and very, very careful and then the next minute is, oh my goodness, now I've got to be very contained and not mess anything up, you know, being a girl. So it was always this state of being hyper vigilant and oscillating between the two as well. Yeah. And as a child, I could never predict what that was going to look like. And if she was in a high state and in this hyper cleaning mode, I would never know if I was what I would do wrong. So there wasn't a criteria and then she would suddenly get very, very angry and this would scream, you're just like your father. And it was, I don't know what I did, it was just all the time it was in this high, high per state and you're such a little girl as well. You were so young. Yeah. Yeah. And then she mentioned, you know, there obviously there was a lot of poverty around and that doesn't help. That gives you a sense of being different. So going to school, it was an area of two halves. So school heightened the anxiety in lots of ways because of Mum's mental health issues. She hadn't allowed me to go to nursery school. She needed me to be nearby all the time. So at four and a half, all of a sudden I'm thrust into the, the bustle of this village school where everybody else knew everybody because it all went to nursery school together. But I didn't. And I didn't know what the rules were. I didn't know anything really. It was just, it was like going to a foreign country. It really was. It was such a shock. And then that sense of okay, if I can make the person in front of me happy, if I can comply, if I can agree with who's in front of me and what's going on, then I'm safe. And then maybe I can be accepted in some way. So now I've got a whole new environment. Where it's like, oh my word, how do I play this game? And then the same thing at home. So it ramped up all of that hypervigilance. But there was some really good stuff as well. Tell us about that Sarah. What was the good stuff? So I do count this as a blessing that when I was at school in sort of like the mid 70s, prayer was still very much part of a normal school day. So we would end the day on prayers. And every week one of the vickers from one of the churches nearby would come in and take assembly. And they would, they would tell us Bible stories or talk to us about things from the Bible. And being in a sort of a semi rural community, there was the rhythm of the year. So we'd go through from half his festivals. So they would talk about creation. And then we'd move through the seasons and we'd move through the biblical narrative through that school year. And up until that point, before I went to school, the garden at home had been my refuge. So there was a particular tree that I loved to go and sit under and that often happened if mom was was having a really bad episode. It was like, okay, right, get me out in the garden. You know, that was my safe place. And being surrounded by nature, it was like, there's something bigger going on, but I couldn't put a name to it. And then I got to school and it was like, oh, oh, okay. So it's God. This is who it is. Oh, okay. Right. This is what I've had a sense of. And it was just like God made sense, creation made sense. So it was, even though school was scary in all the other ways, that moment at the end of the day when we pray. I loved that. I just loved that moment. And the moment in assembly, once a week at school, you know, hearing these Bible stories and hearing about God and hearing about Jesus, that Jesus could be your friend, that was just wonderful, absolutely amazing. So that was part of the refuge. I mean, a real lifeline to you, as you said, a tale of two halves there in your school experience. And, you know, I mean, that's amazing, Sarah, isn't it? Through the exposure to Bible stories and prayers, God became so real to you, you know, and suddenly, as you say, you could put a name to that sense of that feeling when you were sitting under the apple tree. I love that image of you sitting there under that tree. As if he was reaching out to you directly. But what's so beautiful from your story is that actually in parallel to your own growing awareness of God, there was something going on for your mum as well. He was reaching out to your mum. So tell us, Sarah, about that and how God came into both of your frame of reference. Yeah. So we've touched on the fact that I grew up in a village that was a village of two halves and that poverty has been part of my story. So the dividing line in the village that I grew up in was actually the church. On one side of the village, there was, it was where all the doctors and the solicitors and the accountants live. And then my side, not so much. You know, there was a lot of poverty. There was all the things that go with poverty. So there was the local drug dealer lived across the road from me. There was a house further down where prostitution was happening, you know, walking to school. I would regularly see people who were hung over from the night before, you know, all of those sorts of things. And there was a group of ladies in the village who felt so passionate about this. They were connected with the church and they set up something called the Poverty Action Group, which was just this incredible practical way of being hands and feet of Jesus to the community. And they would do a coffee morning in the parish hall. My mum would go along. That was where predominantly a lot of my clothes came from when I was little and a lot of my toys came from there as well. And this group of ladies began to just connect with my mum very gently, you know, offering to pray for her, sharing a little bit of the gospel with her. And it always felt like a place that I can, I do remember walking up to it on a few occasions with my mum and the struggle that she had to walk through the door. And a lot of that was due to her mental health issues, but I can remember the tension in her hand before we walked through. But I'm wondering if a lot of that was because she was also, she wasn't just dealing with mental health issues. There were other things going on in her life. Yeah, Sarah, tell us a bit more about that then, Sarah. So you're saying she wrestled with actually going into the church and with presumably receiving the help as well from these women who wanted to bless and encourage her. So was there a reason behind that? Was there something else going on? Yeah, I think the other aspect was that during this time, my mum was getting more and more involved with occult practices. So it started off with playing with Ouija boards, other it's just a game, it's just a board game. You know, that was, that was often the thing that was said, then it was tarot cards, then it was sayances. And then she got involved with a local spiritist church that was in the town near to where we were living at the time. And she definitely wanted answers, she wanted certainty. She had lost her dad when she was only 18 months old, so she was trying to keep her voice connect with him and it was all of these answers that she was looking for. But at the same time, you know, God's creeping up on her, trying to get her attention through this amazing group of women. And I definitely think that was a huge part of the struggle for her as well, to make that choice to step in and receive the help that they were offering. Yes, because in her search for meaning, as you say, connection with her deceased dad, you know, obviously she'd exposed herself to powers of the enemy that actually can in snare ultimately, you know, and we know how important it is to be aware of spiritual battle. It is a reality for believers worldwide, you know, in John 1010, it tells us, doesn't it? That our enemy Satan is out to steal, kill and destroy. And it really sounds like from your childhood experiences, that that was a real battle going on in your household. So I mean, you must have been a witness to some of those things going on. But tell us, tell us a bit more about your experience of that as an ago. Yeah. So I think it was during that time that I became aware of the atmosphere getting darker. That's the only way I can describe it. Things began to feel more fearful and more unsettled and more unpredictable. You know, hearing odd noises in the house, you know, and considering I was used to hearing when I'm crying and screaming and pacing the floor, you know, to say I was hearing odd noises is, you know, it's quite something. And then one day, my, my man, because we were living with my man during this, during this time, my man picked me up from school and she was walking me home and she said, your mom's having a really bad day. So when we get in, I want you to be extra quiet, you know, on your extra good behavior and, you know, you're going to go to bed early tonight, which I did. With no, with no question, you know, had my tea trotted off to bed. And I remember I went to sleep and, and as a little one, I did struggle often to get to get to sleep. And I found out that it was that night that that that struggle that my mom had had, you know, with what I now understand, you know, it was because Jesus was reaching out to her for salvation. And she was being pulled back by the enemy and there was a genuine real fight. And she had told my man, you need to call these ladies. I want them to come and pray for me. She knew in that moment that prayer was the answer that Jesus was the answer. That was where she needed to go. Am I found amazing? Yeah, it is. And I think that's why I always hold on to, you know, when people have these kind of struggles in their life. Jesus is greater. He has been these great. Absolutely. Yeah. And it was that night. She surrendered her life to Jesus. And she was delivered of demons. Apparently it got a little bit noisy. Are you all fast asleep? I was fast asleep. I never heard of they. Oh, isn't God gracious to care to you in that way as a little girl when things have such significance are going on that can be very scary actually, particularly for a little one. Yeah, he protected you. Yeah. It's like God came in and just switched off all of that hyper vigilant side lived with for those first sort of five, five and a half years of my life. And yeah, just amazing. Yeah. So Sarah, we've talked about your relationship with your mom. And, you know, before we continue to, it's really important to acknowledge that despite all these incredible challenges that you imbibed as a child and that she faced as a mom, she loved you. She really loved you. And she also loved Jesus. No matter those challenges that you both faced. And I think it's, yeah, it's really important, isn't it, to emphasize the fact that as you and I were talking about before, it's a case of hurt people hurt people because they are carrying such wounds. And to some extent, they don't know how to love without those wounds in the picture. So let's explore now just a little bit more about your relationship with your dad. You mentioned that he walked out on your family when you were just over a year old. So, yeah, what happened in the wake of that? I mean, would you say, Sarah, that it's true you never really felt fathered, that there was a vacuum in your heart of a father's love. Tell us about that. Yeah. I mean, there's so many different aspects of that you, you don't know what you've missed until you experience something that looks like a father's love. And it was, it was around this time that my parents divorce was sort of coming to, to its final stages. And I hadn't had any connection with my dad at all. He hadn't come to visit. I didn't know him. I only knew what my mum had told me about him. And he was definitely someone to be feared from, from what she described. And the courts made the decision that my dad had to have access rights. And it meant that I would have to go and visit every Sunday and stay at his house every other weekend. So I'm now walking into a whole new situation where I'm with someone I don't know. And I've never experienced being around a man before. All of my teachers at school were female, you know, apart from the vicar walking in once a week. That was it. Men were something completely different. And yeah, it was really hard. I felt like I was a nuisance. And he would have these these moments where I would do something wrong. I just had and he would turn all me and say, Oh, you're just like your mother. Or he or I would have a facial expression. You go, Oh, you look just like your mum. So now I've got my mum railing at me and saying, you're just like your dad. I look in the mirror and she's telling me I look like my dad. I'm looking, I'm getting the mirror. And my dad's house and he's telling me I look just like my mum. And it's just this world of, ah, I don't know how to be different. And I wish that I was. And it was, it was just so horrible. And as well, you know, growing up in the era that I grew up in, single parents were unusual at school. So I would often you'd have those conversations with the kids at school and they go, Oh, my dad's a policeman, you know, and I go, I haven't got a dad. It was just what's the, so it was always this feeling of outside, not belonging. Didn't understand, you know, when it comes to praying the Lord's prayer, our father who are in heaven, I just didn't get it. And it was that this, it was at this moment where I just began to get a kernel of the father's heart. So I understood God as creator, you know, the one who can part the seas and do all these amazing miracles that I get. I can see that. And it was at this point that my mum was taken to a Christian concert and it happened to be in a church. It was my first experience of being inside a church building. And I didn't know what to expect. My mum had also told me, this is God's house, be on your best behavior. Sit nice and still he can see you. So I sat on this wooden pew sort of holding it all together. And this guy walks out and American guy, big, big, big to check shirt, jeans and guitar. And he starts singing songs about all of these amazing moments from the Bible. I heard about at school and it was everything was coming to life. And it was like, wow, this is amazing. And then he began to talk about fathers and he had written a lullaby for his, for his children. And it was talking about a father's love for his child that he would never leave that child. He would always be there for them. And I just, this, this little six year old heart just was like, oh, okay. And I just said, God, I don't have a daddy. Will you be my daddy? It was in that moment where I felt, I felt loved. I hadn't felt like that before. And it was so simple and it was so, so quiet. But so all consuming. It was just, it was just amazing. So a little kernel of truth there that you received as a six year old, but let's fast forward now, Sarah, because we need to accelerate things looking into your team. years, you know, you'd you'd embarked so much as a little girl, you had experienced so many painful situations that most of us probably can't empathise with, you know, particularly in such a short period of time. You know, you're in a very emotionally dysfunctional family setup as you've outlined for us. So it wouldn't be surprising at all if when those dreaded hormones flooded you as a preteen and a teenager you struggled with your identity, you know, it's a prime time, isn't it, when we all are forging our identities and at such a formative time for you as a young girl, your identity had been stripped from you in so many ways. So tell us Sarah, what did your teenage years look like in that regard and did your growing faith in God bring a sense of hope into things at all? I would love to be able to say that my teenage years look very different to those early years. Sadly, that's not the picture. My mum didn't get well, we didn't stop living in poverty, if anything, things got worse and that that was really hard. I know that that was primarily down to the choices that my mum had made. My mum had chosen not to maintain a connection with the church or with the ladies who had led her to the Lord. She ended up in quite a toxic friendship group. She refused to go to church because church is a led by men and she didn't want to have anything to do with men. She didn't want to engage in discipleship, she didn't want to get any medical help either and admittedly, you know, sort of in the 80s, it might have been quite limiting on what she could have accessed but even so, the choices she was making for her health weren't great. So, school during my teenage years was a nightmare. It really, really was. So, I was this hyper-vigilant introvert. I was in survival mode and that puts you on the edge and when you're with a group of teenagers, the one on the edge is going to be the target and that was absolutely the story for me. And again, being in the 80s, you know, bullying, unless you've been beaten up and had an arm broken, they weren't really going to do anything about it. So, it was that gradual sense of my heart getting more and more hurt and I was getting very, very angry, very disappointed with God. Wow. So, Sarah, I mean, that must have culminated in something. Yeah. Yeah. What happened next? I made a very calculated decision to walk away from God and see only way I can describe it. I looked at what my life had been like up until that point and what had God done for me. You know, I prayed and I'd asked him to heal my mom and she got worse. I asked him to pray and stop the bullying and it just got worse. It was just so much anger and it was all directed at God. So, I told him point blank, I said, if this is what my life is like, we're in charge of it, I can do a better job of it on my own. You're out. That's it. And I absolutely turn my back on God and I walked away from him. I did not stop believing that God was real. I didn't stop believing in Jesus. I just said, you don't work for me anymore. You care about everybody else but you don't care about me. So, I'll look after myself. But what I love about your story, Sarah, is that God wasn't content to just let you go and he never is with any one of us. He wants us to be absolutely close to him and living life with him because he knows that ultimately that is the way that we are going to live life to the full. As a loving and tensile committed father, then he always wants us to come to him and to embrace fully that knowledge that he loves as just as we are. No matter what we've done, no matter what we've experienced, you know, and that truth was sort of lingering, I think, on the edge of your subconscious. Sarah, but you wanted to do things your way, you know, and we absolutely can resonate with that each one of us, I am sure. So, you actually went on to dabble in other things. I mean, having witnessed your mum obviously engaged with very, very dark things. You know, it surprised me when you told me that the next part of your story was dabbling into the new age. So, tell us about that, Sarah, and what that actually, yeah, what that meant for you. Yeah. I mean, for me, the new age was so attractive because the main philosophy of it is that all the answers are already in you. All you've got to do is unlock it and connect with the universe and everything's going to be fine. And it gave me that feeling of agency, like I could control things, that there wasn't an outcome that could happen outside of my control. I could run the show. I didn't see it at the time as the same as what my mum was into. Interesting. And yeah, we know, don't we, with the benefit of hindsight, that actually often things like that, the dabble can be an entry point into more. Yeah. Absolutely. So, yeah, so I got into meditation and yoga and deep breathing and all sorts of stuff that goes with it. I think someone gave me a crystal at some point. I went to see a new age prophetess, you know, all sorts of stuff. And it was fine for the moment. You know, I could do half an hour of meditation and you know, I open my eyes and think, oh, yes, I mean, I completely connected with the universe and everything feels fine. And it wouldn't last. Because it wasn't going to. And there was always a line where I kept thinking, yeah, but is this real? Is this authentic? Is this just me, you know, getting some good chemicals going in my body? You know, there was all those sorts of questions that lingered. And like you said, in the background, on the edges, there was that sense of God was there just waiting. I think if we use the, you know, the story of the prodigal son, I knew he was waiting on the road. And he would be there. There was definitely that sense. That's so beautiful, isn't it, that you really had that sense of, yeah, God lingering on the waiting, waiting for you to choose to come to him because you had chosen, as you say, self-sufficiency. You know, I can do things myself. I can direct my life. I don't need you God to be a presenter. Thank you very much. And isn't it amazing Sarah that we can say as believers, and even for those who aren't yet believers, perhaps that there's this truth lingering on the outside of their subconscious that actually the way to true freedom in our lives is surrendered to God because it's not about being enslaved. It's about being freed to be who we are truly created to be. And I just love that, that oxymoron, that the world would say no, don't be enslaved by a God who tells you you've got to do ABCD, but actually that is the pathway to freedom. So you went on to discover that yourself, didn't you Sarah? You actually decided that the new age wasn't filling this vacuum in your heart. Tell us what happened next when you went to a Christian camp, and especially when you listened to a very powerful seminar on the theme of rejection. Tell us about that. So I found myself going to this Christian camp with a friend of mine more because it was going to be a cheap holiday than because I actually wanted to connect with God if I'm completely honest. I'm not 100% certain on how I actually ended up at that afternoon seminar on rejection because I would never have identified my story up until that point as being coloured by rejection. I wouldn't have seen that. It was definitely a god thing though, I'm not a shadow of a doubt. So the guy who was leading the seminar began to talk about his story, what he'd experienced. And it was like, oh, but that sounds like my story. Oh, okay, right. Maybe there's something that I need to think about and look at from a different angle. And he was describing how he began to understand the Father Heart of God and connect with him. And it wasn't a massive light bulb moment, but it was just this growing realization that there was something that could look different in my life. And then it was that evening that went along to the main meeting and the guy who was leading at the time, Josh McDow, and he had written a book called The Father Connection and he was preaching from that. And it was just this revelation of seeing the gap in my life of not having a present father, a caring father, a loving father and how that was shaping how I saw it. God. Again, it was only on the edges, but it was this, 'Oh, okay, I felt like my focus was being shifted.' And he began to prophesy at the end of it, and he was saying, 'There are people here who've either lost sight of God as they have any father or they've never experienced it, or maybe you've never had a dad in your life.' And it was like, 'Oh, okay, that's me. That's me, you're talking about.' And the heart started to pound, and he said, 'I'm not going to call you out the front, because I don't want to bring shame to anybody, but if you know that's you, you can go to the prayer tent, which was off to one side.' And there are people there who would be happy to pray with you, got up, walked out, and this, I think I was one of the first people in, because I've got no awareness of anybody else in that tent, apart from this lady who walked up to me. And she just began to pray and just lead me through forgiveness, and it was just the most gentle, beautiful encounter with God. And it was as I began to say, 'Okay, Lord, I don't want to feel like this anymore. Help me forgive my dad.' That's what she said. She was so careful. She said, 'You don't have to go the whole way.' But you can ask God to help you be willing to forgive. And that's where I started. And it was just this amazing moment of feeling the love of God, the father heart of God, just thawing me out. And it was like all of the anger, all of the disappointment. It was just like it was melting away. Just amazing. Yes, love that image of thawing, as you say. So Sarah, you had this incredible experience of God's love completely suffocating you. And how beautiful is that? What a contrast to what you'd experienced previously. Your dad had been a misdustranger to you. And yet there you were receiving the sense of this father's love for you, your heavenly father. And there's probably many listeners actually who can really resonate and empathise with that. And I think it's really important. If we just pray now for them, would you join me in praying for them that they also will experience the tangible love of God that not only thaws the previous experiences and the pain that they've known of an earthly father, but transforms it completely. Would you pray? Yeah. Father, I do thank you that I can now say that I can call you my heavenly father. And Lord, I know that that was your desire for all those years to reveal that love to me. And Lord, I'm aware that there are people here who are listening to this right now who maybe have struggled in the same way that I did in understanding what a pure intention of a father's love can look like. So Lord, I pray that you will lead each person to a place where they are able to receive your love. That love that heals the wounds, that love that melts away the past, that love that looks nothing like anyone on earth can ever give to us. And Lord, I do ask for each person who maybe would find that hard to do on their own Lord that you will bring people into their lives who will be able to be your voice of love to them, that they will hear your truth, whether it be through worship song or through through something that they hear in church over the coming weeks, Lord, but you would reveal that father's love to each one who's listening right now. Thank you, Lord. Amen. Amen. Thank you. I mean, it's unusual, Sarah, for us to insert a time of prayer into the middle of our stories, but I just felt like it's really important for us to emphasize that today that we are here because none of our stories are wasted. They all have power to resonate and yeah, be empathetic for those who have warped in those shoes as well. So I do really pray that these words are a sort of massive encouragement to those listeners for who that is pertinent. So Sarah, we talked previously about that sense of saying that when you're aware of spiritual warfare, you can really see how the enemy is seeking to steal and destroy what God is doing. And you know, it's no coincidence, is it that the next part of your story actually is evidence of exactly that, that in the wake of having experienced this beautiful sense of God-given love that ministered to you so deeply, something went on to happen which actually served to attempt to steal what God had given you. Tell us about that, Sarah. Yeah, it was just a few days after I had that incredible encounter with the Lord that this guy just started talking to me, classic story, you know, I'd never had a boyfriend before. This guy was older. I carried quite still quite a sense of unworthiness and I was, I guess, easily distracted by someone, a physical person who would say, "I accept you, you know, I care about you." And it quickly developed into what was the very toxic, harmful relationship that caused, caused me a lot of hurt and pain. But I think probably that the lasting part of that was that I lost God again, you know, it was like the enemy had got hold of my, my head and turned me towards a person and said, "This person will meet all your needs." And that's one of the regrets that I carried from that season. So Sarah, I want to interject really quickly there because you used an interesting phrase, you said you, you lost God. Now, what do you mean by that? Because actually God never lets go of us. We can't lose God. Can we ask that? You know, he is always there, once we are here, he is always there. Just tell us a little bit more about what you meant by that. Yeah, that's, it's good to clarify that. It was the feeling that I had once again walked away from him. Yes, of your own volition, your own decision. Yeah, and it was like I had something very beautiful in my hands and I chosen to put it down and I'd gone to something else. So, you know, you're absolutely right and I know that, you know, from the next part of my story that he absolutely hadn't let go of me. But I had made a choice to let go of him and it was that feeling of I've lost something. I can't have it back what I had before because I've chosen this guy over God. Yes, and, you know, we now know with hindsight that it was between 18 to 21 that you had that toxic relationship. As you say, God was faithful. He hadn't let go of you. Even though you'd let go of him, he hadn't let go of you. And at age 21, that truth really got through to you. Yeah. So, what happened then? Yeah. So, the relationship with the guy ended and I was utterly broken and it wasn't because he was the love of my life or anything like that. It was just the sense of I have messed up so badly that everything's just broken beyond repair. One of the last things that that guy had said over me was no decent Christian guys ever going to want you now. So, you know, 21 to feel like, that's it. It's done. It's over. And I had this moment of the pain of the brokenness and more than anything, feeling that distance from God that I had lost something that was so precious. Or not that I'd lost it, but I'd given it up. And the pain was just too much and I wanted the pain to stop. So, I made a plan. I was in the process of carrying out that plan. And the nearest I think I will ever experience to the audible voice of God was there. Are you not worth more than the lilies of the field? It was that scripture, you know, that talked about value and worth and that there was something that I was precious to God that I was important. So, the plan was halted. And I would love to say, you know, it was one of those moments, you know, like angels appeared and it was all beautiful and dramatic. It wasn't, I just gave up the fight. So, it was that actual moment of surrender of saying, okay, Lord, I made that decision when I was 16 to run my own life. And I've not stopped trying to do that. And now I'm going to stop. Because I've made such a mess of things. It's over to you now. And it was that moment of genuine surrender of saying, "Okay, God, you do." It's all yours. It's all yours, guys. It's all the mess. Everything. Yeah. Yeah. And there was a piece in that that I hadn't experienced before. No one leased in that surrender. And that was even now, you know, I can feel it. That piece that comes when you say to God, "It's all yours." All the mess, all the brokenness. You have it. And that's the place, isn't it Sarah, where God can do the most with us. When we willingly give all those messy pieces to him. I mean, even as you said it, it was reminding me of that beautiful image of the Japanese Kensuki art. Yes. Where gold fuses those broken pieces together into something new and exquisite and unique, actually. And, you know, that is the next part of your story, isn't it? You know, we're going to enjoy part two of your story in a fortnight's time. But the first element of that is that God did totally surprise you. You know, there you were in the wake of a toxic relationship, giving everything to God, but saying, "I've had it with men, you know, I'm not interested." And he really surprised you, didn't he? Subsequently, with a man who went on to restore your perception that in fact you weren't damaged good Sarah. And you were worth far more than the Sparrows, as God's audible voice had said to you. So tell us Sarah about what happened in your meeting at a man subsequently. And how God actually brought you full circle to that incredible moment. When age six, you had cried out in that heart's prayer, "God, will you be my daddy?" Yeah. Yeah. So, as you said, you know, part of that moment when I surrendered my life again to the Lord, I also said, "Lord, I've made such bad choices. If it's your will for me to marry, I only want a man of God." That was my only criteria. I mean, my heart would have said, "Yeah, you know, if he's tall of the me and has got a nice smile, that's quite nice too." But that was my heart. I really wanted a man of God. But if it meant no one, then I was happy with that as well, because I did not want what I had been through to be part of my life every again. I prayed to that prayer. I began pursuing church and prayer and joining the youth group as part of this church. And there was this guy, you know, he was actually leading the youth group at the time. You know, pastors, some really, really lovely guy. And I thought, I was still carrying that sense of yeah, he wouldn't be interested in someone like me. I just want to pursue God. And then things really did change. You know, if I describe the moment, you know, people will be like, "Oh, that sounds like a film." But it genuinely wasn't. We were just out one day as a group. Our eyes met across the table and all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, you look completely different." So yeah, and then we've now been married 31 years. And it's been, I often marvel at just how good God is to give me the marriage that my heart desired for, you know, someone to pray with, someone to study the word with, who genuinely values me, and is an amazing father to our children. But God really does turn it around. He reads. And that, yeah. And tell us Sarah about that moment when it became so crystal clear for you that not only had he turned around your circumstances, but he'd also mapped your whole life in the sense that he'd been there present through every moment, you know. So way back when you were a little girl, sitting under that apple tree, seeking that solace, seeking that place of safety, he'd revealed himself to you. And when you were there at your dad's house and probably feeling enormously vulnerable, you know, God's father heart was still available and wanting to give you safety. Through your teen years, when you imbibed all of that struggle with the bullying and the ongoing struggles with identity, you know, God was present. And he heard that little prayer that you said as a six-year-old, "Would you be my daddy?" And he actually gave you a real sense that he'd heard that prayer, didn't he? Because Don Francisco actually came back. The singer who'd been in that fabulous set of Czech shirt and jeans and you're in all the rest. And you went to a concert with your fiance, didn't you? Yes. Yeah. So it was the second time I believe that Don Francisco would come back to the UK and he was playing music from his new albums. So I've got my wonderful fiance sitting next to me. And he sang this song called "Bird with Broken Wing." It needs a mascara warning, I would say, if you're going to go and listen to it, it's one of those songs. But it was that beautiful moment that the song describes how a bird with a broken wing is withdrawing itself from God. And it was like that song was God saying to me, "I understand that you still feel broken." Even though, you know, you've got this answer to prayer beside you and I could understand God more as my father. But it was that I needed a moment where I could say, "Right, okay, this is it. It's healing from this step forward." That I'm going to fully receive that, that father's love. So at the end of the concert, you know, that there's always a moment where they, they do an alter call and Don Francisco just said, "You know, if you don't know Jesus, you know, if you want to give your life to the Lord and that there were people standing up and then you said, "But if there's some of you here who feel broken, who feel like you need to just make a public declaration that Jesus, you are mine, even though you know Jesus, you know, that that moment of resurrender, recommitment." And I stood up and it was, it was again, it was that same feeling of, of the father's love, but it was also the father healing something in me that he didn't see me as that broken bird. Yes, that image of bird with a broken wing is exquisite, isn't it? You know, and even as you're saying that, Sarah, it just reminds me of something I came across years ago, actually, but it was talking about as a bird that we are, we are like birds and with two wings, one is the wing of surrender, which you've talked about is so powerful and the other one is the recognition of our identity in Jesus as a son, as a daughter and actually it's the Holy Spirit who acts like the thrust of the winds that enables us to take off and when you have those two wings in tandem with the power of the Holy Spirit, you really start to saw. So, you know, the amazing news is that to be a bird with a broken wing isn't the end of the story because God is able to restore that wing and actually give you a brand new one, isn't he, to a needless or to saw. So, I think what you have shared today, Sarah, has been absolutely amazing. You've been so vulnerable, you've been so honest with us and I really want to say thank you because that comes at a cost and you have really been so generous with us in sharing your story in its fullness. I'm sure that there are many listening today who can resonate with aspects of it if not all of it and I think I just want to finish by wrapping up in prayer all of the different issues that you've covered today. So, you've talked about alcoholism, you've talked about drug addiction, you've talked about strange relationships, you've talked about a sense of an orphan heart, bullying, turning away from God, coming back to God and even dabbling into the occult and new age. So, there is so much in your story, Sarah, and I would love to wrap it up in prayer. So, let's do that now. So, Father God, what incredible story you have been writing in Sarah's life and it's not finished yet, but Father, I thank you that your speciality is to take each of us like birds with broken wings and to not only restore those wings but transform them. To enable us to recognise that there is freedom in surrender, there is joy in bringing all the mess to you and allowing you to make it something beautiful and Father, your desire and aim is that all of us would be able to saw with you at the centre and on the wings and freedom of your spirit. So, Father, I just want to wrap up this episode now in your love, in your grace, in your power, in your protection over each and every listener. Whatever we have said today that speaks you to them. I pray that I would remain and anything else would fall away. In Jesus' name, Adam. Thank you so much for listening in to Carry Shales today with me, your host, Katherine Grimes and our beautiful guest. And a big thank you to all the women who make Carry Shales podcast possible for your generous support. You know who you are and we are eternally grateful. A big thank you goes out to David Campion of Open Sky Media for editing and producing this episode. And this is where you come in. If you have enjoyed listening to this episode, please help us by growing the Carry Shales community of women of faith. You can leave a review or a rating, pass the stories on and look for the stories in your own life as well. Thank you and look forward to talking with you next time.