God Calling with guest Fr. Neil Kookoothe

This episode of Wisdom from the Rock is brought to you by Briefcase Marketing. Are your marketing dollars actually working? You've invested in ads and websites, but aren't seeing results. At Briefcase Marketing, we build Catholic websites that look great and convert, and we track and optimize your ad campaigns so you're not wasting a single dollar. We helped the Credit Union double their ad conversions without increasing their budget. Visit briefcase.marketing to see how we can help. The humanity of the priest is a bridge to encountering Christ and should not be a barrier. People always say like, well, if you want a priest, what would you be doing? And I'm like, it's hard for me to think of anything other than what I'm doing. That's what we're striving to discern is what is God's plan, his dream, his will, his desire for me. Where I'm going to be most fulfilled. And it really is through living a sacramental life that's absolutely going to support that. When you're married, you have to realize it's not just you anymore. It's you and your life and God. If you desire to be truly happy, then your life should not be about you. Welcome to God Calling, our locally produced program that explores the various vocations available to Catholics in all walks of life. Now here's your host Paul Orlowski. Well, welcome once again. Thank you, Dan Deely for that nice introduction. I am Paul Orlowski. And we have a great show today because Father Neil Cacuthi is joining us. He's the pastor at St. Clarence and has been for 25 years come January. Wow. That's an accomplishment. It's a long time, but it's been a real gift to be able to stay with one parish and one community for 25 years. Yeah. You have the ability to really develop intimate relationships with your people and you're able to see where they were 25 years ago and where they've grown and been nurtured all this time. A short assignment is like four years. You might not be able to see that, but it's been a real gift. I only thought of this question just this minute, but these are friends now. So if you're doing a funeral, these are your friends. You know, and it's amazing because I was thinking just that this morning, you know, I had a funeral this week where I buried the husband a couple of years ago and now I'm bearing the wife and you know, they're people slipping in and out of your lives. Yeah. And it causes me to reflect on my own mortality. But you know, the closer I get to, you know, retirement age and beyond. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me about your childhood. Where'd you grow up? So I grew up in a large Catholic family in Toledo, Ohio. I have seven brothers and sisters. My parents are both deceased. Went to a Catholic grade school operated by the oblates of St. Francis to sales. Went to St. Francis to sales high school. And then after high school, I actually entered the seminary in a collegiate program with the oblates of St. Francis to sales. Okay. Family life. What was that like at home? Yeah. Really? It was a close knit family. My dad was an auto mechanic. He owned his own business. So the family was, you know, very much involved with the business. When we were in high school, when we were out of class, we were expected to be downtown working with my dad. And he would bring us home for dinner at night and we would just do the whole thing again this morning. My dad was a Greek, my mother Irish. And so my dad was kind of a strict guy, a strict disciplinarian. And, you know, he had expectations of us and, you know, we met those expectations. Yeah. My dad, he was an engineer, quiet guy. But, boy, I tell you, one of the five of us was acting up in church. Oh, you got the look. Yeah. And that was it. Well, with my dad, if you got the look, you didn't, he didn't need to do anything else. Because you had gotten the look. Yeah, you didn't. Nobody got hit. He just did the look. Right. Exactly. What did you first have a call? Do you feel well? You know, it's funny because I was close friends with one of the oblates of St. Francis to sales even in grade school and throughout high school. And, I had this inclination as early as the second grade. Well, as a matter of fact, there was a little religious bookstore, a couple blocks over from my home. And I had gone into that bookstore and I bought some holy cards. And then I signed those cards in the second grade. I signed them Father Neil and I gave them out to all of my classmates. No kidding. And the second grade and one of those classmates will not let me forget it because he still has the card. And he still brings it up for time to time. He's never going to forget it. Never. Yeah. Did it stay with you all? Yeah, it stayed with between because like I said, I went right into the oblates of St. Francis to sales from high school. And I was with them for two years. And, and after two years for several different reasons, I decided to leave the oblate order. I just wasn't called to religious life. And so I left that and I did a number of things. I finished my degree in public relations and communications. That was back in 1980. And in 1980, the economy was in distress. And so you couldn't find a job. So I graduated from college at the University of Toledo on a Friday evening and in Saturday or Sunday, Monday morning. I was in a nursing school class. Okay. And so I went through a two-year nursing program at Mercy Hospital in Toledo and took a job for a number of years in their intensive care unit. Tough job. Tough job, but a great job. I loved every minute of it. Really? Yeah. Love every minute of it. What happened next? My ego happened next. And what I mean by that is, you know, here I am. I'm a 23, 24-year-old guy. And I'm in a nursing profession, which back in the 1980s was still predominantly a women's profession. And so I was watching these guys come in in their lab coats, their white coats, my age, and this guy's going to be the doctor, right? I'm going to be the nurse. I wouldn't even want anything to do with being a doctor now. But your ego, my ego anyway, got a hold of me. And I thought, you know what? I should probably do something that's more in the line of a profession. And so while I worked full-time during days at the hospital, when I finished work, I would, I entered into law school at night at the University of Toledo. So I put myself through law school and graduated my law degree in 1987. That discernment of, did you pray about that or did just, you know, I have to admit, a lot of it was ego. You know, I just thought there was more, there was more. But the fact of the matter is that there was something missing. It was always something missing. And you know, it was hard to determine what that missing was. And I just realized that I came here to Cleveland, I eventually moved here to the North Royal Teneria, and was attending Mass out at Holy Martyrs in Medina. And as I was there in that part of that community, I met a number of very good priests. And instead of keeping my mouth shut, I would challenge them after Mass. I'm, what did you mean when you said this in your eye? Or I would go and say, I don't think I agree with you. Yeah. Well, we would get into these conversations, theological, heavy conversations, and we develop friendships through that. And then, for some reason, I, at this time, I was working at University Hospitals in their intensive care unit. And they literally drove me by the seminary on Ansel Road one day, and they took me in, gave me a tour, and the next year I was sitting in a seminary class. Yeah. Who decided that? Well, that was Father Bob Fyfer. And another guy, he's since left the ministry of Father Michael Domingo. Okay. Now, when a parishioner challenges you, what do you, what do you do? Well, you know, that's a very interesting thought because as a nurse, you know, you're put in there with families and they don't question what you're doing because they think you are intelligent enough and you're skilled enough. Same thing with the lawyer. Nobody's going to sit down and tell you how to do a deposition or anybody's going to tell you how to write your interrogatories, right? But when it comes to a parish life, everybody's the theologian. And everybody has their own idea of God. And so they bring that to you and they challenge you with it, but it involves some really deep good conversations. Yeah. And maybe it affects somebody as it did you. Yeah. Over the course of the year. Good stuff. Yeah. Father, stay right where you are. We'll be back with more after these messages. Right here. I'm God calling. Thanks for staying tuned. We hope you'll stay tuned each and every week at this very same time. Right here on the rock Catholic radio, both on the east side and west side. No, we should probably plug that as well. 1260 on the east side and 930 as well as 100.3 on the west side. Not far from your parish family. You'll cook. Oothe joining us from the St. Clarence. That's a moral of facility. It is. It's really a beautiful campus. Yeah. But it's not the building that makes it what it is. No, it is the people. They are phenomenal. They are just phenomenal. I have a guys group at my parish and they go down to the bookstore every year and they know me. They know, oh, yeah, we've got your book and the knowledge. It's great story. Oh, it is. It's really with books with religious items with gift items. It's really a pretty impressive place. Yeah, in case anybody cares, it's called at home with the word. Pre-read the coming up gospels for the weekend. And then there's some thoughts and some questions. Yeah, it's a great little tool, I suppose. People probably recognize your name and you know why because of your work saving a man on death row. I don't want that to be your label. But we can't go without mentioning that. Father Neil Cucuthy hears. You've probably heard of the Joe D'Ambrozi case. I read some thoughts you had about that. And one of the things you said was in your prison ministry, you didn't play the lawyer. Yeah. But what was different about this case? Well, so yeah, I started working with the guys on death row in 1996, June of 1996. did that as part of a ministry that I was excited about and that I wanted to participate and I had been invited into that ministry by a brother Patrick Bird. He was a disc-cursed, caramelite brother out of Texas and I wrote to a guy that he recommended to me and I didn't even tell the guy at first that I was a priest and I didn't tell him that I was a lawyer. I started with the nursing because I didn't want to do any law work for them and I didn't necessarily want to become a spiritual counselor for them. I simply wanted to walk with guys condemned to death on their journey and so I started working with a guy by the name of Keith Henness and he is still alive on the row and currently the only guy that I'm still working with on the row but he would introduce me to people in the cells around him and when he eventually found out that I was a lawyer of course you know all those questions come in but one of the people that he introduced me to was a guy by the name of Joe D'Ambrosio and back in the late 1990s as a lawyer I was able to actually go back on to the cell block and so while I was visiting Keith one day I just poked my head in the door to Joe's cell and I just introduced myself and it was that for a couple of years and then in 1998 a December of 1998 Joe's mother died and she was buried out of St. Monica's okay and because he could not attend I decided that I would go to the wake and I would accelerate the funeral and literally talk to him about that when I visited on the row next and so when he came out to talk to me you know he was very grateful for the condolences but he was like you know I'm not guilty of this crime I need somebody to literally back me and advocate for me on the outside how many times did you heard that all the time all the time but the thing that fascinated me about his case was that a death penalty trial was conducted in three days and the transcript of that trial was in one volume and I thought we know what a man's life is at stake and we're talking about a three-day trial and recorded in one volume I said give me the volume and I took it home and I read it that night what one of many times where I read the entire transcript and I realized upon reading it that there were some real issues in this case and I started investigating it on myself because they didn't want to just take his work so I started investigating myself and I was able to corroborate what he was saying but also I found evidence that he was never aware of and that his lawyers were never aware of that literally pointed to another perpetrator in that crime and so I started advocating with him you know with pro bono attorneys and everything like that and you know that case was you know he's been exonerated now since 2012 but it went all the way up to the United States Supreme Court. Well at some point time you say that just you just get down that this isn't we're not going anywhere with this or well no I think the thing is what got me the most is that you know we we were able to put this evidence in front of people back in I want to say 2001 or 2002 and you know the court process you know it's it was like we're going to protect protect any kind of conviction that we get rather than say let's investigate this and see if there really is an issue of innocence here and so I was just I more than Joe was I was the one that was like come on let's get this thing moving let's get going here how many years is it going to take yeah and it took another 11 years after we discovered the evidence to to actually prove them I read a description of somebody that maybe it was Joe getting out and all of a sudden the freedom the way they define freedom is being able to put your shoes on when you want or hug your mom or stand in the grass and the grass not and somebody not telling you to do each and everything that you have to do I've been down to Lucasville a couple of times and you go in there and that door slams behind you that's a feeling you are as much a prisoner than sure they are because you cannot move without somebody guiding you and no two doors are open at the same time correct oh yeah and you have no place to go yeah it's an odd feeling very odd oh yeah absolutely I yeah I've seen you down at Lucasville on some of the executions okay okay I witnessed one okay which one was it um spizak oh okay but Nazi yeah you know funny story about that with Catholic doctrine I didn't volunteer for it that was the only I was so old I was the only one that remembered the crimes so I got so that was gonna be nice I've been with four guys as they've been walked through their executions but I before it all the sudden I thought wait a minute I didn't volunteer for this am I doing something wrong well I was good friends with Bishop Lennon okay so I went and asked him about he explained it to me yeah when he said was Catholic doctrine obeys the law if you're the judge you're the prosecutor or the reporter okay but we work to change the laws that are in conflict with Catholic doctrine that was pretty good explanation but it didn't make me feel any better after I watched it takes a while yeah to process that kind of thing yeah yeah yeah it's tough but um any of the other folks ever you ever talked any of them are still behind there but you see still working with the one fellow so yes I'm still working with Keith he's been on the row since I believe 1984 he currently has no further appeals and there is some work behind the scenes to try to get the governor to grant him clemency but Keith does not want life without parole as a mere fact most of the guys don't want life without parole they would rather be dead than spend the rest of their lives and prison awful living oh it's terrible yeah something real quick as we close this chapter the you left the job open for Joe when he got out at the same clearance I did and I I had had many people on my maintenance staff two of them one of them died one of them retired and I kept it open because I knew Joe was going to need a job when he got out I needed that I knew that he needed to be able to make a living for himself benefits in order to put his life back together after 22 years and to do so successfully so yeah I hired him at the parish father stay right there we'll be back with more after these messages father Neil Cacuthi joining us right here I'm God calling you know we kind of skipped over the seminary years and what you did right after that was seminary years tough for an adjustment for me they were because I had already had two careers yeah and I had lived on my own and I had my my own car my own bills all my furniture and and all of that kind of stuff and to actually done you know either rid myself of many of those items to go back and living in a dorm room with the shower down the hall it was a little bit tough yeah it was a little bit tough but one of the other things that happened is that I remember my first year I was on Ansel Road last class to be on Ansel Road I would sit there on Sunday morning while the other guys are having breakfast in the refectory and I was over at the table reading the classified ads still looking you know what you know where do you really want me to be you know and I was looking at nursing jobs I was looking at law jobs and I'm like this this tension between not willing to let go and to move forward where God is calling me was a really hard tension for me and so I I literally had to start closing some doors to open up other possibilities and I not a one that likes to close doors mm-hmm so it was hard prayer work into that decision yeah certainly does not just my own personal prayer but the communal prayer around the seminary sure to be able to participate in that which was really vibrant prayer and life giving to be able to be part of that community because what that did was make me take a closer look at the community to take a closer look at the president and say you know there's a brotherhood here there's a fellowship here and and there is truly a calling and that calling cannot be ignored mm-hmm it can't be ignored well and the other thing is you know guys probably four years ahead of you four years behind you so that as you move through your seminary years priesthood years pastorship at some point in time right you've got a real bond yes oh for sure where did you go first and then those to your career path as first seminarians concerned or graduation or ordination I'm sorry so after ordination my first assignment was at San Francisco sales in Parma back then our first assignments were five years so I parish at the parish and I stayed there for from 95 to 2000 and then in 2000 I went to St. Angelo Mariches for one year and then from there I ended up at St. Clarence and then there's since January of 2002 right so like we said at the beginning 25 years from five years telling about the parish St. Clarence yes St. Clarence you know I got to St. Clarence and when I was there there were three priests there there was the original pastor Father Tom Flynn and Father El-Lab and Law and Fall who was at one time the rector of the seminary especially when I was in there and he told me one time he closed the Ansel Road I think he did that was a tough decision for sure but it was a real collegial atmosphere between those two priests and myself there were three of us there and you know and it was a very nice introduction to the parish because Father Yale is a very good person. Well, you know, retired when he turned 70. He's coming up on 92 in September. Father Flynn stayed on until I think he was about 72 and then he moved on. And so my introduction to becoming part of the parish just flowed when I became pastor. The people knew me. The people were okay with me being there. Becoming a pastor was not the transition for me. Being part of the community from another parish was the transition. And it's just a beautiful place. There's a vibrancy there. There's a feel there for the people. And I remember when I was first named pastor. I stood up in the center aisle of the church on Sundays and I said, "Folks, I didn't know that I was going to become pastor. This was called all kind of inadvertently." And I said, "I will stay here with you as long as you are in this with me." And if there comes a point where you're not in it with me, then for the benefit of the church and for myself and for you then I need to move on. So I'm still there coming up on 25 years and I'm loving every minute of it. I've spoken to a couple of priests and taken a new parish to be able to be there going someplace else. And a couple of them said the same thing. I told them I'm not going to change anything for at least the first year. Because people are setting their ways. Right. You know talking about parishioners and you've got kids down there. You mentioned something before having to do with our parents. There were expectations. It wasn't like some, my father made me go to work as a place. It was expectations. And you see a lot more helicopter parents and things like that these days. How do you deal with that? Well, you know, the point is we got away from a lot of things and we were really kind of sconst in the secular humanism rather than what does the church teach. And more importantly, why does the church teach it? And you know, it's so you look at families today and at least in my opinion, we can go back generations to the 60s, 70s, 80s and the cataclysm literally took kind of a back seat to be kind to be good. All those things are great. But there's a background behind those things, a foundation upon which they're built. And parents, quite honestly today, don't have, I think, the tools to be able to pass that faith on in a way that we received it. And so I think it's really important for the church to provide parents with the tools. And I think it's also important for the church, at least the way I look at it from St. Clarence is that the community needs to be a community outside the worship building so that we get together, you know, for many different events in our lives, many different things. And if you start doing those things, you draw people in and you realize that they're welcome, not just at the Eucharist, but they're welcome as part of the family, as part of the community. And so that I think is drawing in younger families again, no? Which is a really great thing. We have a coffee shop after our 10 o'clock mass on Sunday and a hundred people down there for coffee and donuts afterwards. And we have the adults, the older adults on one side and then the families are on the other side with the space for the kids to run around. And sometimes I'll hear from the adults and they'll say, "Can't anybody control their screaming and running around?" And I'm like, "You be glad. You be glad those kids are down there screaming and running around." And it's important. It's important to build that community. It's kind of about 30 seconds left. Tell the folks about the bookstore because it's a real gem. Yeah, the bookstore is the Galilee bookstore. It's founded at the same time the parish was. It's now grown into its own standalone building. It's, you know, all seasons of life are celebrated in there. First communion confirmation, people going off to the service in the military, just educational materials, gifts, faith-oriented gifts that are literally available for people. Very good. Thank you for joining us and folks. Thank you for listening. I hope you'll be here each and every week at this very same time, right here on the Rock, Catholic Radio. Thank you for listening to God Calling. If you missed part of today's show or you just want to hear it again, go to our website, AM1260TheRock.com and click on the On Demand tab. And remember, wherever you are in life, God is calling you. The preceding program was a production of St. Peter the Rock media and is brought to you by you. If you liked it, consider making a donation and supporting the programming here on the Rock, Catholic Radio. Go to rockcatholicradio.com and click on the orange donate now button.