“Go To HELL!” Netanyahu West Bank Terror | Ben-Gvir Aide vs Owen Jones + Naomi Klein

Your whole career is based on creating lies about Jews your whole book that you wrote is about that the whole collapse of the West is because we fought back in Gaza It's idiotism, it's amazing to see the only reason you get through anywhere is because of your your looks and your British accent You're full of crap and everybody can see right through it. Okay, you're the one who's allowing geodism to take over England You're the one who's allowing geodism to take over Paris. Are you saying you find out in Jones good looking? Is that what you just said? I said that. Yes, he's a cute guy It's not this dirty, but his face is clean and that's part of his little charm, but he's full of it dramatic developments in the Ukraine war I've dominated the headlines this week but the world's attention is about to shift again to Israel where voters will decide on Tuesday If time is up for Benjamin Netanyahu elected six times in 30 years a great metallur of the Middle East Face his political ruin if he loses power you may have a loses freedom the corruption charges looming and an ICC war crimes warrant Here's arrests we're going to polymarket data Gadi Eisenkot is now twice as likely to become an exprobionist of Israel Nathalie Bennett is closing the gap in third both of Netanyahu's chief rivals can have condemned him for what was at the very least a security Failure of epic proportions in October the seventh or while neither is promising any respite for the people of Gaza They both rebute Netanyahu for enabling settler extremism and the occupied Palestinian West Bank Well last weekend the Washington Post photographer Heidi Levine was hospitalized after settlers attacked the Palestinian farmers She was embedded with the footage is tough to watch No Get her to the back Whilst an initial attempt to downplay was incident by some prominent Israeli commentators ten suspects have now been arrested The tax been condemned by Israel's president by US ambassador Mike Huckabee and by US Secretary of State Mark Rubio Netanyahu on the other hand has talked about the unclear circumstances of an alleged attack Violence and death are risen sharply on his watch as has the expansion of illegal settlements themselves The British government among others calls it terrorism and ethnic cleansing the IDF Shimbet and Israeli police all agree that violence and extremism is surging many of their officers have been injured because of it The reason for Netanyahu's provocation is simple his coalition government has for several years now been held together by far right headliners And the settlers have no greater champion than his security minister itamar Bengavir When he's not taunting prisoners or calling Palestinians subhuman he fiercely advocates for a full occupation of the West Bank and of Gaza Bengavir has been on the campaign trail for himself this week He was filmed hyping the crowds at a rally alongside his friend and advisor Eishai Fleischer and joining me now is settlers spokesman and advisor to itamar Bengavir Eishai Fleischer and Owen Jones to commentator and author of the fall of the West Well I welcome to both of you both have been on sensitive course several times before Eishai Fleischer I can't imagine many more difficult jobs that have been to represent someone like Bengavir Eishai Fleischer who strikes me as an author psychopath without a shred of humanity for Palestinians at all What do you do it? Yeah you missed one thing in the bio though Pierce and that is that I'm running as a candidate as number 12 on the Itzmai Yudith party slate I'm running for Knesset right now and I hope at the end of this interview that there will be some more people who will understand how important it is that we have somebody like Eitamar Bengavir who pushes back on jihadism and doesn't let our Tel Aviv and Jerusalem become like Paris and London So it's very easy to explain the policies of Bengavir to anybody I'm married to a Texan woman, a Jewish Texan woman I go to Texas a lot everybody understands what the policies of Eitamar Bengavir it's called law and order It's called restoring order to a land I'm not allowing Eitamar to take over Does that include beating up female journalists when they're reporting on it? It does not include that and that's silly of course it does not include that and illegal behavior will be dealt with but that does not mean that we're going to miss the big picture which is the Jewish people's return to land of Israel the big jihad that wants to destroy us just like they want to destroy Paris and are pushing back on those things We shall survive we are survivors we have a law and order candidate who understands what you think jihad is destroying Paris by the way because that's got very little to do with what's actually been happening Oh, it has everything to do with it just that you want to be blind to it pears Not really I'm married to someone who's half perision so I may know a bit more about it than you do Maybe you do and maybe you don't but you may not understand the roots of it If you think what's happening on the streets of Paris right now is down to what you think is down to Islamic fundamentalism You have immigration I heard I heard Polish It's not it's not though it's a complete misunderstanding No, it's not about students No, no, it's about actually a historic tradition of French people protesting they do all the time and what's been happening now is that more and more thugs and criminals have been getting on the end of these protests where dusk falls and they start smashing things up, setting fire to things and stealing things People are going to listen to you say these words and millions of people are going to say Pierce Morgan smart guy quite to touch though from the reality on the ground They don't understand the people don't understand how you don't understand that immigration jihadist immigration destroys the West Okay, I saw the I think jihadist immigration is a serious problem But it's not happening in Paris right now on the scale you seem to think is that's fine So there's also a danger in people You want to turn a blind eye to every criminality down to the Muslim immigrants which is also a problem No, no, no, it's going to no we're going to make every criminality about the Jews defending themselves in the homeland I heard you know the other people that you have on It's all about Israel defending itself tiny little Israel amongst 22 countries That's the bane of the world the way that we dealt with God We're talking little Israel has the entity nuclear Okay, well you that's where the great you agree just before I come to on Just to be clear do you agree that is well is the only nuclear power in that region? What what does that have to do with anything? Do you have nuclear weapons? What does that have to do with anything? Yes or no? What does I ask you? What does my show I'm asking you a question? Does Israel have multiple about it? Does Israel have more of these papers? Do you have dozens of nuclear weapons? Yes or no simple question Well, I don't know the answer to that question Why are you lying? Do I have a nuclear weapon here somewhere? I don't know what's happening about nuclear weapons Are you trying to say that Israel strong? Well, we're proud of it. If you mean to say that Israel's strong, you're a tiny little country Well, which one is it? You're either a tiny defenseless country Or you're a nuclear attack Or you're the only nuclear power in the region I say defenseless I said we are a country that defends itself Because we are a tiny country in our region You are the only nuclear power in your region What's that? You're the only nuclear power in your region Yes or no? It might be and if you were happy about it Why not tell the truth? Why don't you get off my back and stop pushing me on the silly thing? If you think you're thinking of nuclear power You're asking me I'm not going to answer you some part of our doctor Not to talk about that And you will know that How dare you have a doctor when you don't talk about it Who gives you the right Who gives you the right not to say whether you've got nuclear weapons? Pierce, do you want to ask something smart or what? That seems quite a legitimate question You're going to make your tiny little country in the Middle East I'm going to ask you one more time Is it true as it is believed that you have many multiples of dozens of nuclear weapons in Israel? Yes or no? Last chance Maybe And you're laughing I'm not going to waste my day You think you're going to get me like some of the other spokesman you got with these recurring questions? I'm going to get people when you are the don't have the question If you are trying to say that it's so strong, then you're right, it is strong It will defend itself You're right We will defend ourselves Is that what you're trying to get to? Just asking if you're going to Is that being done? I'm just asking Is that being done? I'm just asking You say you're running for the kinesi? I'm just asking Is it true Israel has nuclear weapons? It's a simple question Are you quite finished? Keep going We have an answer I'm not going to answer, are you done? That's fine You don't have to I already said that to the viewers The viewers can make their own minds up You don't have to answer I've asked you a lot of times Thank you very much Can we keep going? Of course we can But it might be not yours If your water heat is going to pack you up It won't be on a weekday with a clear diary Sun's law says it will be on the weekend Mid shower The face full of shampoo And the emergency plumber will charge you a small fortune just to turn up regular homeowners insurance. usually doesn't cover that kind of everyday wear and tear. That's where HomeServe comes in. It offers different plans covering various home systems when Zittle is $4.99 a month. Choose a plan for your needs and budget and when something on your plan goes wrong, call the 24/7 hotline to start the repair with a network of 2,600 local licensed contractors. So you're not left high and dry and cold. Over 20 years with nearly 4.5 million customers, HomeServe has a 4.8 out of 5 post-repair rating and an A+ and a better business bureau. If I needed this, HomeServe is what I'd use. Join the millions of customers who trust HomeServe. 50% less than your first year. Go to HomeServe.com/pears. That's HomeServe.com/pears of 50% less, savings compared to a new price. Void in Florida. Oh, and special. You know, right there, immediately, we have a very bombastic, aggressive, evasive response. On the one hand, we're told, Israel is this tiny little country, and therefore everything they do should be perfectly understood and accepted and encouraged. On the other, we happen to also know that Israel is a big nuclear power, one of the biggest in the world, the only nuclear power in that region. And so this presentation of Israel is somehow tiny. Show the map. Here, show the map. No, you might be geographically small, but you're a nuclear superpower. People might smile as well. More tabulation wise. More to the point, Israel isn't just a nuclear arm power. The fact that, yes, a tiny state of 10 million has the military capability it does is because it's armed to the teeth by the United States and the West more broadly. No country on Earth has received more military aid than Israel from the US, not even close. And the reason they behave with such impunity is because they have that huge colossal, unconditional amount of aid from the United States. If they didn't have that, then they wouldn't be sounding quite so cocky. And this is the point. We have to end the military support that Israel receives in order to commit genocide and various other war crimes. I just want to just be clear about who we're dealing with here. I think it's very important to be clear who we're dealing with. This guy, this illegal settler, by the way, from the illegally occupied West Bank. He was the temerity. He says, yes, that London, my city, is collapsing into violent disorder. Just so everyone's clear about the facts, the murder rate in London is the lowest it's ever been in the history of London in terms of recorded history. He's from the West Bank, where more Palestinians have been killed over the last three years than the previous 17 combined, which were also bloody in their own right. Say the numbers. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm just going to I'm just going to believe a book liar that you have on the program today. What is the number? What is the 12,244 object? You win 1444 Palestinians, including 268 kids between 2023 and 2025 slaughtered by his ready-forces and settlers. But let's just be clear. Let's just be clear about how this, we're just going to just be very clear about who we need to be in. You weren't says nine people were killed. I think it's 25, which is so much less than London. You're so full of it. It's always good to be, always good to, always good to be clear about who we're talking about. You ain't never is looking up on AI. Anybody out there listening. You can see how many of you aren't so killed because nobody is listening to it. You try fly shit. The guy we're talking about. It's so easy to see through this. Last year, he said the status of non-Jews in Israel. He said, I don't want them to be citizens. I want them to be residents. He said they would have only three out of 120 parliamentary seats in the Kineset. He asked if Arab citizens of Israel, the Palestinian citizens of Israel, make up 20% of the population who would give three out of 120 seats in the legislature. He said, when asked if Palestinian citizens of Israel should be equal to Jews, he said, no, not in my opinion. Let's just be blunt about who we're dealing with. And I'm just going to spell it out. Though I don't think it needs much more color or texture. We're dealing here with a racist, an overt racist, a loud and proud pathological racist, and an overt supporter of a partite. And just so we're also clear here with dealing with here. Ben Givir, he says, this man is tough guy. Yeah, the tough guy, he said, are now going to quote directly your boss, your leader, you're standing on his ticket. He said, for every tear of an Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must weep, all of Lebanon must burn. There's a word for what that sounds like. And again, I don't think it needs spelling out because most people already have it in their heads. He sounds like a Nazi. If you were to go through the history, but the one who sounds like a Nazi, you're the one who's been out here for the whole day. You're the one who's been out here for the whole day. And you're the one who's been out here for the whole day. Everyone will tell the truth about what they're using there. You're going to use the term fascist in any context. I think it's more than accurate to describe someone. He says that Palestinians are inferior. They should be stripped to whatever rights they have in Israel proper itself. Having already been driven out the homes there by the founding of Israel. And he stands by someone who's a leader, who you salute. He says that 1000 Lebanese brothers were wearing for every day. We've got to bring him other. I think I said that I think it's more than enough. Because that's saying everybody knows he were dealing with now. So yeah, he's shy. Let me just, let me just clarify one thing. How many Palestinians do you say were killed in the West Bank in 2025? I don't, I don't say it. I was quoting the UN numbers, which is nine. No, it's not. It's 240. No, it's not. Look it up. I just looked it up. We just did. We just did. We just did. We just did. Ocean numbers. Listen to me. Greer's you could say what are 20, 20, 20, 20, 20. We just check the numbers literally from the UN. I have it right in front of me for God's sakes. The year, the UN's OSHA year end report, attributed Palestinian deaths. Directly to so-called Israeli settlement, Judean Samaria, was nine. That's what they're saying. Okay. And it doesn't matter. The point is, the point is it's a tiny amount. God and every person's life is important. But it's nothing compared to inner city Chicago and New York. But you, you have made a whole career. You know, we have a, we have a famous Jew. His name is Natan Cheransky. He created a test for anti-Semitism. Here's the, the triple detest. Demonization, double standards, and de-legionization. That is exactly who this guy oh and is. He's all about, he doesn't care. The fact that there's 66 million people that are suffering right now and dying in Sudan, South Sudan, and Yemen. He doesn't give a damn about that. He cares about these people. He cares about the nine people. His whole, you can just sit for a second. You can just sit for a second over the people. Your whole career is based on not just your whole career is based on creating lies about Jews. Your whole book that you wrote is about that the whole collapse of the West is because we fought back in Gaza. It's idiotism. It's amazing to see the only reason you get through anywhere is because of your, your looks and your British accent. You're full of crap and everybody can see right through it. Okay, you're the one who's allowing Jihadism to take over England. You're the one who's allowing Jihadism to take over Paris. You're the one who wants to sell the Jews to the dogs. That's what you want to do. We see you right through it. Probably just to be clear, Aisha, are you saying you find out in Jones good looking? I said that. Yes, he's a cute guy and that's how we get through because this mouth is dirty, but his face is clean and that's part of his little charm, but he's full of it. He's full of endless. Okay, I'm not, I'm not going to respond to your bizarre flutes. The problem is, the problem is Aisha. You don't have to respond. You have to go back to your whole. That's what you have to do. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, can I just respond to that? Because he's made that. She's impressed. Oh, you aren't going to respond. I've already, I've cited your extreme racism, which you haven't. You can read my article in the New York Times about my position. It's about how to deal with the two things. Between 20, 23 and 20, 25, 1,024, 1,244 Palestinians, including two into 68 kids, were killed by both settlers and the Israeli state in the West Bank. That's what we're talking about there. More broadly, though, I want to talk about just this point. You've just said about anti-semitism. Anti-semitism is a really grave evil. A really grave evil. Yeah, and it just spies anti-semitism. I'm a socialist. Socialism. The left was built disproportionately by Jewish people. And there were so many great Jewish people of the past and present. People like Yip Harberg, or Adrian Rich, or Rosa Luxembourg, or Harold Pinter, you, my friend, are a functional anti-semit. And I'm going to explain why I'm accusing you of that. This is why you are functioning in anti-semit. Because people at the anti-semit explain it. People at myself go to great lengths. Great lengths. My way, colonialist friends. I'm going to explain it and you can respond to it. We go to great lengths to emphasize the demarcation between the terrible crimes committed by the Israeli state. A state who's including one of its leaders, like yourself, he says, for every term in Israeli mother, a thousand Lebanese mothers must we, all of Lebanon must be heard. We say that is not representative of Jewish people. That's what we say. We argue that and we believe it. Millions of Jews. Millions of Jews to survive. No one is talking about you on the other hand. You are my friend and your colleagues. You and my friend and the colleagues and your fellow colleagues in the Israeli state. What you do is you promote the idea that Israel and its heinous crimes are representative of Jewish people. And in doing so, you drive anti-semitism and people like myself. I don't know if you didn't listen to your mind, but what you do, is you are driving anti-Semitism. I'm a driver of anti-Semitism. This guy writes a whole book about anti-Semitism, but I'm a driver of anti-Semitism because I'm protecting my people in my life. He is the absurdity of this supposedly smart dude, good-looking, nice-sized British, British accent. Full of crap. I'm the anti-Semite because I offend my peoplehood in this land because we push back on anti-Hotism that took over Gaza because we make sure that our country is safe because Minister Ben-Fir gave out 300,000 more guns in the last four years so that Jews can defend themselves from the issue. What is going to happen in the Israeli election? Because the way the polls are looking, Netanyahu will lose unless he pulls another one of his miraculous levers out. What do you think is going to happen based on current information? I'm not a poll dancer. You might be a poll dancer. I'm here to run. I'm representing my party. I think the right wing is going to do great. I think that people do not want to give away the land of Israel anymore. They don't believe in progressive policies that reward that she had. They don't believe that Jews should not have arms. They don't believe that prisoners should be treated as though they're in a hotel. Who is going to win the election then? What's that? Who's going to win the election? Bring on a political scientist, okay? I'm running. I'm running for it. With Ben-Fir. I'm running with the right wing. Just because he talks about prisons there, Palestinian detainees, well over 9,000, half of them are in administrative or unlawful combat detention. They've had no criminal proceedings of any description. Thankfully, there's 164 children, by the way, Israel's the only country on earth to reach any children, three military courts, only 60% are serving the criminal. Only 60 million children dying in 70% are serving a criminal sentence. And those are kangaroo courts, which have convicted them in the first place. And they're sort of conditions, and if people should read through what's been done to these people, these prisoners, these detainees are being raped to death, literally rape to death. Yes, yes, yes. I love you. He's talking about it. He's talking about it, yeah. The whole world's got to use. The whole world's got to use on an industrial scale. Kangaroo court, you're a kangaroo journalist. You're a kangaroo fake. You're not a person. Yes. We rape by people. What a choker. We rape by people. What a choker. We rape by people. We rape by people. We rape by people. Go down. Why don't you use all of your verbal strength and your eyes and the whole thing? Go down to Sudan, South Sudan and Yemen. It helped the 60 million children were suffering there. Oh, Yemen. You have to go Yemen, are you? We don't go Yemen. We have a strong country. We're pushing back on Giyadah's side. And we have a Giyadah's region, okay? We're pushing back. Yemen. Yemen. Yemen. You haven't seen the world. You haven't seen anything. Did you ever read the Bible? Do you have any actual-- I've got two degrees of Oxford University. Look, regardless. Just a quick one. I'm not sure if you've seen it. You brought up Yemen. Who boy? This is going to go really badly for you. No British columnist has spoken out about Yemen more than I have. I've covered that for years. So go take care of business. I went to Yemen. I went to Yemen. People that died in Judea and Samaria from several violence. I went to Yemen. I went to Yemen. You got to speak out. I went to Yemen. I did a documentary about the Saudi war on Yemen. I hope you agree as well. I doubt that you understood it as overwhelming Saudi Arabia. It is real. Which is a responsible thing. Let me jump in. Let me jump in. Let me jump in. A shine. Let me see how that can pass it. That's a new book. You're going to be hoping to represent a Benghavir's party. He has very vocal views about what he wants to do with the West Bank in Gaza. Is your position that you think Israel should take over the West Bank and the Palestinian should leave and the same with Gaza? No. My position is simple. And it's one that I've held for 25 years. You can also read my New York Times article about alternatives to a two state solution, a big op bed there. You can actually see what I say and not listen to Owen Jones and his credit. What does that answer my question? I will answer you fully because this is the heart of my life. I'm speaking to you right now from the liberated Judea next to Bethlehem and Hebron and close to Jerusalem where we're illegally occupying. Bull crap. We're from this land. We are the indigenous peoples of this land. We bought this land. So what do you want to do with the West Bank in Gaza? What do you want to do is get rid of jihadis and have said it many times, so how many Palestinians would you allow to leave? How many Palestinians? Don't make me say I'm not going to say that word. The word is jihadis. Okay. Jihadis got to go. Okay. What percentage of the Palestinians currently in the West Bank are jihadis? Okay. I hate you. Esha. I'm not answering your percentages. It's not a percentage question. You don't want to stop like that. You don't want that question. Excuse me. Do you want an answer? Let me ask the question. You can decide if you want to answer it. My question is, what percentage of Palestinians on the West Bank do you view as jihadis? I don't have a percentage number and I'm going to give this one. I'm not giving you a guess. Five percent, 20 percent, 50 percent, 100 percent. Thank you for the question. I will go on now. No, it's important because you say you want to get rid of jihadis from the West Bank. What percentage of the Palestinians you live there do you view as jihadis? Jihadism is a tort, ideology, it's like Nazism. And therefore we could also un-teach it when we stop the mosques, stop the social media. So how many of the Palestinians would do this? How many of the Palestinians would do this? I'll answer to you. Hang on a minute. Esha, it shouldn't be difficult. You say- I will answer to you in a minute. Your position is you want to kick all the jihadis out of the West Bank. Okay. How many of the Palestinians- I'm glad you get that. I'm already happy that- In your view, how many Palestinians on the West Bank are jihadis? That when they were asked whether they supported October 7th massacre in Gaza and in Judea and Samaria, the so-called West Bank, the average support number was around 80%. So you would kick out 80% of all the Palestinians? I don't think. I'm trying to watch out what your policy is. You want to be a politician. And explain it. No, you're not. You're ducking it. So what you've just said is- I don't get anything. I don't get anything. I'm talking about the narrative jihadis. Do you view- Do you have to go? Esha, do you view 80% of the Palestinians? Do you view 80% of Palestinians on the West Bank in Gaza as jihadis? I hope not. I hope it's a lower number. But anybody who wants to be a loyal, a part of the state of Israel, can be and will be- That's our law and that's even our Bible. I've looked at it. I've looked at it. I've looked at it. He says in an interview, he says any opposition to the Jewish state is jihadism. And he defines opposition to the Jewish state in the most broadest possible term, his party, and his party. But again, can you just answer this, actually, look, instead of all the barking, because it's just noise. It's just noise. I'm going to look after my 18-month-old toddler who is way better at behaving you, far more coherent and just less. It's like babysitting somewhat. Anyway, regardless, do you accept that if you said, and don't bother denying it, because I read your interview, you said, you don't want, and we're talking about Arab citizens of Israel, I'd say, the Palestinians, but Arab citizens of Israel, the 20% of the population, you said you don't want them to be citizens, you said you would strip their parliamentary registration to 3 out of 120 seats, they represented 5th of the population, and you said that they should not be equal to Jews, you were racist, aren't you? How are you not racist? I'm not a racist at all. I'm not a racist. How would you possibly say that's not racist? I live in a state, which is also a protectorate, which is also a reservation. We are a tiny minority in this region, and therefore we have to protect our minority in this region from the majority of 400 million Arabs and many more Muslims. Therefor, therefor, in Israel, in the West Bank of Gaza, we will control the West Bank and we will control Gaza. It is ours. You said you want to take citizenship, right away for it, and we will kick out jihadis. Okay. Okay. Israeli Arabs. I'm going to talk about it. That's not our issues, our parties about security. Go on. You support the right people to be homosexual? We have a very big democracy. We have a lot of different kinds of Jews. Yes, I support people's rights to live their kind of life. The question is marriage and other issues. These are legal issues of how the state of Israel handles marriage and other issues. These are much broader issues. I'm not going to discuss that today, so. What did you do in 2006, bezel of smotchage, when there was a pride demonstration in Jerusalem? What did he do? Not in his party. I'm not answering this question. It's not interesting to me. We're a security already. Well, he let me tell you what we do. We do fight for equality for Jews on the Temple Mount. He led goats and donkeys to mock the pride of the Jews. I don't know which goats and donkeys you get excited by, but the bottom line is that it's not the issue that we're talking about. I know the one leading parisic goats to donkeys. We're talking about pushing back on geodism in our land and giving Jews equal rights on the Temple Mount and that being overrun by Hamas Kusbalah, Iran, etc. That's what we're talking about. You're just trying to get out on something. You think you're going to get me into a corner because I'm an observant Jew. You think you can get me in trouble? I don't care about what you think about our marriages in Israel. The great Jewish tradition of harmony for equality is one that built the modern left. You have nothing to do with that tradition. You want an insult to that great Jewish tradition, but more broadly, you have nothing to do with Judaism. You're not going to tell me what Judaism is. You're not going to tell the world what it is. You're an insult to the Jewish people. Go to hell. You're an insult to whatever you are. You are. Who the hell cares? You're an insult to your country. You're going to need to be too long for things. You're not a white guy talking about it from afar. I'm a hero. I'm a hero. I'm a hero. I'm a hero. And the fight for the living world in which she argues we could be sleeping walking into an actual apocalypse in the very near future if radical action isn't taken. And as this video released or company in the book suggests, she records the ground zero of it all could very well be New Gaza. We've heard the story of Golden Cities before. I thought a bit of the shining city upon a hill. Some versions of it are told and retold in the sacred texts of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In God's prophetic clock, the seven signs for the end of days. First the horror. Then we come to the place of Armageddon. The mass death. This is going to be your payday for the next 50 million years. A battle of Armageddon. Then for the blessed survivors, a new Jerusalem, but only for the favoured few. Well, the author, Nemi Klein, John's been out. Nemi Klein, welcome to our censor. Thank you so much for having me. It's very apocalyptic this book. It looks like the world is about to end and it's going to be a combination of the fascists and the tech bros. Am I reading this right? Did you read it? I read it as synopsis of it, yeah, which my team prepared for me. I mean, you correct me if I'm wrong, but is that the tenet of the book? Look, the book is about people who are obsessed with the end of the world. Whether they are Christian end-timers or Messianic Jews or technologists who are telling us that the world might become uninhabitable, so we need to blast off to Mars. We need to upload our consciousness to the sky. So the point is, you know, I'm not trying to scare people. I think people are seeing this around them. And we are developing a framework to help people understand how dangerous this ideology is. We do live in a time of global crises, and the crises are real, but we don't believe these are the end times. We think there's lots of things that we can do to prevent that apocalyptic outcome. That's why I said, did you read it? Because it's not us who want the end times. It's about people who take this very literal reading of the Bible and are creating an apocalyptic world for the rest of us. And there are all kinds of things we can and must do to stop it. You talk about the new Gaza being the catalyst for potentially a lot of the problems. Explain what you mean by that. Not the catalyst, so much as the template, right? I mean, we use the term end times because this template, this very literalist reading of biblical texts, the idea that we are on a historical trajectory that is leading in a straight line towards the end of days or a messianic new age. I don't believe that that is how history works at all, but that story is very, very powerful. And it is told and retold in the ancient biblical text. And then you have secular versions of it that are kind of like the plot lines of so many Hollywood disaster films and video games, right? Like everything ends and out of the fire, a chosen few survive. And that idea of an inevitable apocalyptic ending that we're driving towards. But that a select chosen few will be fine is a very, very dangerous story because if you believe you are one of the chosen, then you will not fear what you should fear. You will not fear these disasters. In fact, you will interpret them as signs that mean that you're going to have that wonderful ending, right? So the people who are most accelerationist are the ones who believe they are chosen, are the ones who believe they will be fine. So we're all familiar, I think, with the biblical version of that story, which is why we start with it. But then we look at the secular version of it, this new Gaza idea, and it is just an idea. There is no such thing as new Gaza. What there is in Gaza is an apocalypse. But then you have Jared Kushner and Steve Whitcough and Donald Trump going up the mountain to Davos in January and presenting their PowerPoint presentation about how out of this very real apocalypse, a genocide will be born this golden city where there will be luxury condominiums and no one will want for anything and fantastic hospitals. I mean, it's ludicrous and that's the kind of secularized version of this very dangerous religious myth. And so we start with that because we think we have to go to the source of this dangerous story and then look at the way we can see these different versions of it ricocheting through our culture. I mean, another way looking at it is, you know, Stephen Pinkie, for example, argues very compellingly, there's never been a better time to be alive that people are living longer, they're living healthier, there's less child poverty. There are fewer wars significantly than at any time in recorded history and so on and so on. And he says, you know, a lot of the problems are driven by social media, scaring young people in particular, giving them anxiety about the world feels like it's all about to end all the time. Is there a danger when you present a set of things in the way that you have, and call it end times, that what was standing in the clarification you made about it, that it's just adding a bit more fuel to the fire of young people's brains, that it's all, everything's always about to end. When in fact, there's a lot to be positive about, and in fact, even religious kind of fundamentalism, you could argue, there have been worse times in history for multiple religions than we have now. I suppose I could have written a book just saying everything's fine, but this is a book that we wrote to understand this new era that we are in. We decided to write the book, Astra Taylor and I, after Trump was re-elected, and we started to see an accelerationism of a kind that we didn't see during the first Trump administration. I don't want to idealize Trump's first term, but he wasn't doing things just recklessly expanding wars in the Middle East, invading Iran, threatening to annex Canada. He was not aligned with Silicon Valley in the way that he is now, and they were at the time, positioning themselves as green billionaires, handing out earth prizes, saying that their technologies were all about human betterment, and now you look at some of these same figures as they align with Trump, and they're going on television and saying, "Oh, is there a 10% chance or a 30% chance that our technology that we're racing towards could wipe out humanity?" So, peers, I think young people I agree are very afraid. I think a lot of people are very afraid, but I don't believe it's because I've written a book trying to give a framework for this to help people understand it and fight it. I think they're afraid because they see people who have tremendous political power and economic power acting in amazingly reckless ways, whether it's flooding social media with deep fakes, interfering in election, burning as much carbon as you possibly have in the Middle East. I guess my issue probably was some of the phrasing of this. It's just that the word fascist and Nazi, they're thrown around all the time by. Friends of mine do it on the left, and I consider myself to be in the centre. They call everybody that don't like fascists, right? Everyone's a Nazi. Trump's a new Hitler and so on and so on. And I do think there's a real danger of doing that because it completely mitigates what actual proper fascists like Adolf Hitler did in the world and the volume of people they murdered and so on. Trump is nothing like that. To pretend he is by calling him the same terms, I think it's to do a massive disservice to the victims of people who were actually fascists. And when it comes to the tape bros, for example, you go after Peter Teal quite heavily in the book whose company, Pallenty, you say, should be in the hage, I actually interviewed him for a couple of hours, found him a fascinating guy, and he responded directly to some of the stuff about him by saying this. The centre left zombie establishment no longer believes in reason in making arguments and convincing people, and it just sort of gave away the whole playing field on that dimension. And again, as you alluded to earlier, there were these fairly straightforward arguments about inflation, immigration, I would also say incompetence. Those were the three eyes. And they weren't, they were not engaged in, they were not rebutted in any way whatsoever. You know, I didn't get a feeling when I interviewed him. I was getting with him and then time is fascist. I'm glad you had a nice conversation with Peter Teal. He has been saying since 2009 that he no longer believes that his definition of freedom is compatible with electoral democracy. He does not believe in it. He's been very frank about this. And he also has been going around the world giving lectures about the anti-Christ, right? So talk about escalating language that we are trying to understand. We're trying to understand why people like Peter Teal are literally talking about the end of days and claiming that anybody who wants to regulate AI or demanding sensible climate change regulation could be the anti-Christ. I mean, this once again, not my imagination, he has literally been doing this. So this is, I mean, I think it's a strange strategy to say that we can't use a word like fascism until somebody has killed millions and millions of people like Hitler. Hitler didn't kill millions and millions of people at first. Fascism moves in stages. Yeah, but you don't actually think. Unless I'm wrong, Naomi, you don't think Donald Trump. Well, let me finish the sentence. Well, no, but I'm going to pick you up for that one assertion. You brought up Hitler at absolutely. If I say you, do you think Donald. OK, but Naomi, is Donald Trump or Elon Musk or Peter Teal? Are they going to end up killing millions of people in your estimation? I'm not predicting the future. I'm describing the present. And what we are saying is fascism is an ideology. And we quote Premolevi saying every era has its own fascism. And the reason we describe this age as fascism, as end times fascism, is because it's a form of fascism that is very much in conversation with our era of existential risk. So our world looks nothing like Mussolini's world. History does not repeat on a loop. It doesn't work like that. So if we're sitting around waiting for the precise personalities and conditions to repeat in the way that they did in the past, we will miss the fact that today's fascists are more likely to be online influencers, that they are not going to be industrialized and disciplined in the way that 20th century fascism was-- Do you think the hard left, completely changed, were far more atomized? And the reason why they're dangerous is because our world is more dangerous, right? But Timor and Mussolini both died before there were nuclear weapons. Right. They couldn't be as dangerous as leaders today can be because they didn't have the tools. Are you as concerned as I've been by the hard left, the kind of woke fascism we saw, in the last few years? Are you as concerned by that? Because I found all the shaming, the canceling, the attacks on free speech, the refusal to accept basic biology and so on. I found all that incredibly oppressive to society and actually quite fascist in the way it was being conducted. Did you feel the same way? So what you're saying to me is that you're OK, calling online lefties who are trying to kick each other off platforms and cancel speeches fascists, but you're not OK calling somebody who is staring at weapons companies, or surveillance companies, and has been in bed with Donald Trump and multiple repressive regimes that-- I didn't say about OK with any of them. Well, for the record, I didn't say I was OK with anything. But you're saying you're defending Peter Teal and you're saying in your quality-- Not defending him. I just said I didn't see what I interviewed. I didn't think he came across as the fascist when I interviewed him. I'm not defending any of this. Yeah, but it's not just about your interview, it's about what he does in the world. Sure, but I think a lot of the people on the hard left have behaved actually like fascists. And to your point, it's the small icon thing. What does that grow up to look like, right? If they are allowed to run rampant, actually we end up with people like Charlie Kirk getting murdered. So yeah, people do get killed. I have been critical-- I have been critical of censorship on the left. I have been critical of a culture on the left that doesn't know how to have debate. That doesn't know how to welcome people. My last book, "Doppelganger," was extremely critical of the left. I don't call it fascists. You know, I think fascism is historically-- On the left, we have a history of totalitarianism. Absolutely. I mean, if we don't want to talk about Stalin and Mao, the cultural revolution, these are real chapters in left history that the left has to reckon with. Fascism is a movement of the right where you have corporate power joining with state power and igniting the worst impulses of the mob. So I'm not trying to cleanse the left of its crimes by any means. But I am saying that this is a project of the right and we should just use the right words to describe them. And I do think there is a double standard. If you're willing to throw around words like fascism about people without state power and you're not willing to talk about it when it comes to people-- Well, no, I actually made the point. I read a book about this. Actually, the point I was making was that the very people who scream fascists about everybody else often behave, in my view, with fascist sensibilities. Because the whole essence of fascism was making people conform to your narrow worldview. Well, I don't think I have that narrow worldview. I think I've been critical of the left and critical of the right and trying to understand corporate power. And this is a book about Trump. It's not a book about the left. And it's a book about a growing right-wing alliance. What's happening in Brazil right now. What's happening in different ways. from parts of Europe. I think it's legitimate to write about the right. I write about both. But yeah, I mean, I just don't think we should be so precious with these words, but this is my tenth book. And I didn't call Trump a fascist in his first term. We are seeing an escalation. And I believe we're seeing an escalation that has to do with the fact that we live in a very dangerous world, right? I believe climate change is a huge risk to us. And it is also a threat to capitalism. Because capitalism, on its current trajectory, is leading us to more and more ecological crises that force people to move, that then fuels the far right. So I think that we should lower our emissions in line with science, which doesn't seem to me to be a very radical position, but it does threaten profits for a lot of powerful industries. Certainly the fossil fuel industry, but increasingly the tech industry, which now is chasing after artificial general intelligence as they call it, and they are powering this project with fossil fuels. So all of these so-called green companies have now just thrown all of that out the window and they are just slamming their foot on the accelerator. And so I think that this is really radicalized them. And so I have not thrown this word around. You won't be able to find old interviews of me calling everyone a fascist. And I think the reason why we should be careful about these words is so that when we need to use them, they still mean something. Well, you do use them, I mean. So like I said, you say it in the book, Nanny. I hear, I hear. You do send a book out of all the current fascists, the ones you're most concerned about are Jewish fascists. So she says, are those who attack other Jews who are thought to have betrayed the project? Are you obviously a Jewish woman yourself? I never said that in the book. That's not in the book. Was it an institute to promote your book, I think? I talked about that in an interview. OK, so you do believe that. And I talk about it as something that I'm facing personally, but I'm not saying they're the most dangerous. OK, what are you saying about Jewish fascists? Just to clarify, what do you say about that? Well, I was just, I was talking about threats that I've personally faced. From other-- That in my personal experience, some of the strongest attacks have come from within my own community, yeah. But just to be clear, this was attacks on you by other Jews who you branded Jewish fascists. Is that correct? It was a ref-- yes. OK, so what did you mean by that, though? What was I referring to there? Yeah, but Jewish fascists, who are you talking about? I was referring to the types of people who are calling for political assassinations against their enemies. Right. So who would be-- I mean, I would put-- I would put Ben Vier in that category. Right, right. People who use political violence to achieve their ends, yeah. Right, right. Well, I would totally agree with you. Name a client, fastening conversation. It's a very interesting book, End Times Fascism. I think you've made your positions on it very clear. And I appreciate you joining me. Thank you so much. I appreciate the conversation. For a long time now, we've been racking our brains about how we can bring you even more unsensitive without making our small team work 24 hours a day instead of the current 23. And with that lofty goal in mind, we are thrilled to announce the unsensitive club. It's the new home of extra content, which only you get to see. You're learning how to train. What in the hairy depths of Harry Hell is going on? It was not intrinsically nasty. Can he put a curse on you? I can't put gears on my blood out. He's a very good man. Plus out for your episodes and exclusive insights, as well as prior to your access to AMAs, live events, and big interviews without me. You can support the show that you love most or get the hold on. We know that you watch and listen to all of our shows, all sorts of different reasons, and we've made sure there is something here for everybody. The unsensitive mission has always been to inform, educate, irritate, and entertain by giving you every side of every story. Real, honest opinions, you might not find anywhere else. You may disagree with my views. Some of our guests and our hosts do too, but that's the point. We're independent and nobody tells us what to say. That sounds like you, but join the club. [BLANK_AUDIO]