Globetrottin ADs - S7E5 - Top Concerns-Finding Qualified Coaches

Hello and welcome to the Globetrot Nades. Since 2019, away from athletic directors, activity coordinators, coaches and friends to connect and collaborate no matter where they are around the world. We hope that you enjoyed the podcast and share it with anyone you think will enjoy it as well. And now, let's get this episode started. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the latest episode of the Globetrot Nades. Hope everybody's doing well out there as we're cruising our way through the fall season, wherever you are in October. And for us, it's a good time because we're getting ready to head into fall break right now. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Much needed a week off from the week home. I'm spending right now being sick. So, yeah, hopefully to be rested after we come back. That's right. Yeah, you need to get involved. You can enjoy yourself, enjoy your time. You're down time a little bit. I think I was too busy this fall, Matt. We had a couple meeting trips and then I was in Canada. And then we have hosting events. And it was just, I don't know, maybe just going too hard, having too much fun, doing too much schoolwork. But yeah, you never know. But yeah, home sick right now. Yeah. It's why we got to pace ourselves, guys. We got to make sure we'd take care of ourselves. I don't we're doing it, focus on some wellness, all that good stuff. All right. Well, we have our guest today is Daniel Hogg and Daniel's coming to us from Saigon, South International School. So, we'll continue our series that are concerning the survey that we've sent out, getting information back. And we're going to focus on finding qualified coaches. So, that's what our focus today. So, before we jump into that, we want to welcome Daniel, Daniel, maybe you want to get a sort of introduction about yourself and glad to have you here today. Thank you very much, Matt. And Nick, thanks very much, guys, for inviting me to be on the podcast. It's a real honor to be joining you today, listening as a, as a fan, many episodes now. And then I didn't think I'd actually make an appearance. So, I do appreciate that. And hopefully, this British accent can be understood by all. But yeah, I've been an ADA Saigon South International School for three years now. And when this topic came up, you know, finding qualified coaches, I feel like we've been in the thick of it. Our programme has been growing so fast that we've had to really get out there and try and recruit some coaches. And so, it's a topic that I'm looking forward to discussing. Yeah. Yeah, perfect. This is great. And I'm excited about this whole series to really, you know, put the survey into, into life a little bit and really thought our first episode was a, was a good one. And finding qualified coaches or just any coaches, let's, let's be honest, has been a top concern for years. It was number two this year, number three last year. It just doesn't go away for me. And maybe that's the reason it's up there because it doesn't go away for, for everybody else. Then you gave some great responses to the survey, just makes you a perfect candidate to be on here with us today. Tell us a little bit about your experience in finding some coaches with your, your new programme. Where do I start right now? I think, I was trying to think before I was preparing for the pod. Sort of what challenges we faced here, but I guess it doesn't matter the size of your programme. We all have the same, the same challenges when it comes to getting those coaches in front of people. And for me, I think we're the same. We probably all receive CVs with highly qualified coaches that tell you how many medals they've won or trophies and they, and they come on your desk. And unfortunately, they're not always what you, what you really want because we're looking for sort of education based athletics, right? We want to put the right people in front of our students. And so that's the real challenge is finding those people out there, finding the people that are philosophically aligned. So for me, the greatest challenge has been not actually finding coaches in the community because we have so many basketball-qualified coaches and football-qualified coaches, and even for the sort of lesser sports, I guess. They're not so popular table tennis. We can find those qualified coaches, but it's really challenging to get them when they're philosophically aligned with your values. And when you put them in a situation, they're going to make the right decision and think about it, not from a point of winning. That's been the real challenge for me. Yeah, that's a great one. A great concern of most people that are allowed to hire in the community, right, Matt? Yeah, for sure, because you probably don't know what you're going to get, right? You're happy to get people to apply and want to help out and get involved and work with kids. It can be a fine line to walk, right? Because you definitely want those qualified people in there, but yeah, like you said, Dan, do they have those soft skills that you need to work with, especially for kids in international schools, the diversity, the makeup. We've got kids coming to us from all over the place, all different backgrounds of skill level or knowledge of games or experience. So it's a delicate situation. It can't be a delicate situation that takes a person with a good head on their shoulders to really navigate that and work with it so they do a good job and make a deposit experience for kids. So I guess, Dan, having been through that probably a few times, maybe you can tell us like, what was that experience like or how have you managed to get through those situations? I think each, I mean, we run a no-cut program here. So as enrollment start a community season, we get an idea of how many coaches we need. So often, we'll try them from Ford and you've got those relationships with the coaches that you've got at the school. So you've you almost know where you're going to slot certain people in and you've got an idea as those numbers are coming in where those areas are you need to fill. Often for us, we run no-cut. So it's the development teams that often need the right people in front of them. And it's important for us that we we still get that. We put as much thought into that coach as we do the Vasti coach. So some of the strategies I guess we've used is trying to get the recommendations from people within the school who might be connected to coaching groups outside of the school who know what we're doing philosophically. So if we don't have a traveling spouse who might have experience that might be suitable because traveling spouses can be great because their partner has already been identified to someone who does align with the school's values. And so quite often more than not they're a good fit. And we've had great success with some traveling spouses come in and coach with us. And we've been able to upskill them and provide courses to help them and pair them up with more experienced coaches. So that's been something we've been able to do to fill those slots. But where we've not had that and we've had to go into the community, it's sometimes come from recommendations. So one of our TAs actually recommended to badminton coaches to be a really good fit and they came in. And yeah, they were aligned with what we were trying to do at the school. So it's I guess casting the net and trusting people that you already know when you put in front of the students give you what you're looking for. And that's been a real real win I guess for us in how we've got about trying to find those coaches rather than looking for the best sports club in the city and seeing if we can partner with them. And we don't really have a club program that we lean on. So we're solely trying to find those coaches just for what kind of connections that we do have. Yeah, I like that. I've had success with that as well. I've had some outside coaches that have been around for a couple years and they're young and they're into the system. And I said, hey, fine, you have a friend. You know, someone else from your from your club and then the current coach can can help onboard that new person, right? It's not just a shot at the dark. It's someone who knows they can bridge the gap a little bit. And Dan, that formula you just described is spot on. And it's it's it's rings a bell big because it's a very similar method of how we've done things here and we're opposite ends of the world, right? Because we understand a what the schools are that we're working in international schools and be the value of, you know, programming education athletics. So it's it's it's if you can get the right people in place, it works out great most of the time. And it just it takes listening to people right and developing those relationships like you were saying to develop in those relationships of the people who can give you a good candidate to put forward and knowing that you can trust that it's going to most likely it's going to work out hopefully. There's one of one of the replies the survey from Lorraine talks about an issue that I've had to deal with and I know people around the world have had to and it's it's those local coaches and their level of English. So she's she's in Chile and she said that she can find lots of locals basically, but you know, their level of English is it's just not up to the standard of of being able to coach in their school. So I wonder Dan, Matt, have you have you had that in your your area both, you know, in Saigon and Budapest? Maybe the locals don't speak the level of English you need. Yeah, the more let me think table tennis is one where when I first came into the school, one of the coaches didn't speak a word of English fantastic coach and was partnered up with with one of our local, sorry, I expect teachers and he kind of worked, but really what we have said is that we do expect all of our coaches to be fluent in English because we want that instruction and and so it made the job even more challenging because then we had to sort of replace some of those coaches that we had in the system that were didn't have the right level of English. So it's a challenge that we faced. We've just I think been lucky to establish relationships with coaches that find local coaches with good enough levels of English. We've considered, I guess you could consider are you willing to partner them up and then train them up are they going to be someone that could be with you for a long period of time? That could be something you want to do. It's also at home sick. It's a time of year, I think no matter. We're not to breathe together. The only way healthy one. Do you see the point going as I ask you for that answer? Hold on, stay with me. No, we've used the similar strategy before where I've had a coach, maybe his English isn't amazing, but it's you can kind of get by, right? But you might struggle with a couple of ways to explain something right or get his point across. So I've been fortunate to be able to put them together with an experienced coach or maybe an ex-packed coach. And the most part, it's worked out pretty good. I've had good luck with it, but it hasn't happened too much for me. Yeah, I think that the worst situations for me is when I thought someone's English was to a good enough level, but then then realized and they became a head coach in both situations. They had had coached you a team, great coaches, and then it was the communication to the parents. They could communicate to the kids in the sport and to me in conversation. But then it was like in written communication to the parents or when they had a question that just wasn't so easy to answer, turned into a just a nightmare. And that's just unfortunate. And I don't know, do you give a written test to coaches or ask them, show me a sample email? You know, the one uses AI tremendously now. So we get around it, but yeah, there's lots of things that come up. That's one thing that I think's really benefited. It must be such a relief to a non-native speaker to have chat GTP for any parent communication, providing they've had the support and training on on how to use that. We've noticed that we just had a coach on a on a trip shaper on in and you can tell when the message comes through and it's been on chat GTP, it might have the long dash in there as you're reading that and it comes through. But I just think it's it's such positive now that they don't have to feel nervous about that communication. And we're actually seeing a little bit more back and forth between the coaches because we have we want to use local coaches and we're fortunate here that that my line manager and the head of school and everyone supports us having local coaches and not just focusing on expand only coaches in front of us. I think that's really important. Whoever is the best person to be in front of that child and that group of kids should be should be there and you really want to your school to support that. So when you get them there, that's the different ways you can support them is helping them with with that communication tool and and partnering them up like we've just said with some experienced coaches and teachers. And I found in my experience too like what once they get here and they're on campus and they they settle in and they they realize they have that support and I think the overall positivity that generally our programs, you know, it's intertwined in how we organize things right. They're very happy to be a part of that. I have a coach this year who's been a local club coach for years and pretty decent club level for I think it was U14, U16 and he was just getting tired of the rigour of a local federation and some of the politics involved I think and just the the win all winner takes all type of mentality. He was getting just tired of it and he was even thinking of moving away or doing something. We got a country or getting a new job and then luckily he got put in with us and we're just talking through after about a month or so on the job and having a chat with him like he's so happy to be here. It's it's it's a relief for him to be able to just coach for the joy of coaching and teaching kids how to play the game properly and having some success. So that's a big plus of getting these local folks involved that that's been pleasantly surprising for me to see how much different it is for him to be coaching with us versus what it was in the local community. Right. Yeah, I find our soccer coaches are the ones that say that the most and even our officials they're like, wow, the kids here are so nice, you know, no one anyone else back at me like they wouldn't a club game. Yeah. But then you get the coaches who are going to be a little too hardcore to point about the routes. They're not too hard. They're not hardcore. Yeah, they should give more courage. Yeah, it's fun. You know, I've I have a presentation that I that I like to give and I've given in a bunch of different places about happy developing coaches because it's about like keeping coaches happy. So we have them. We're going to spend time onboarding them and we want to we want to keep them happy. And ironically this year this fall I've had four staff coaches quit after coaching one season and they'll fall in winter like but I found out about this fall. So I know it's not finding qualified coaches but to me directly relatable because I've had these people. I found them. I've got them. I was happy with them and all four have decided not to coach and trying to think I don't think it's anything that that we've done all one's starting a master's program. One has to do whatever. I don't know. They all seem valid but now I'm stuck finding qualified coaches again for a reason I didn't expect. So I just just want to either you guys, how's your retention rate? Is it just me this year? Is it anomaly or in other parts of the world? Yeah, I can think of one or two coaches that have decided for personal reasons that similar studies or maybe that I wanted to start a family and they're just focusing on that and so they've removed themselves from coaching. I kind of think once you get them in, any new coaches, once you've onboarded them in and you've really helped them sort of understand the program and you've supported them, you're there, you're visible and you can communicate really well. That onboarding is so key. I think once they're in and in front of the kids, you know often you chat to ADs, what do we miss the most? We miss coaching. If you're not doing it right now we miss being in front of the kids so I think once you get them there and they're in, it's kind of easy to then twist their arm the next year and also season two or three and I kind of aim for two seasons out of three and I'll give you one off to take care of yourself and I think I'm kind of squeezing every drop out of the orange as that is but it is a good community here and we do have buying. I think that's also important. You can't create that culture but yeah, some years you have like that, right? You just don't know and maybe your head coach is going to come to you and say I just need to take a little bit of time out and all of a sudden you've got to move the jigsaw around and then fall in that next coach. You got to figure out, okay what's the first, what's the first to solve peace? I just kind of thought I had to go through that a little bit for my winter coach and started now. Well that's my last piece was just I just lost two varsity girls coaches in a week, the two that I had so now that it's getting all tossed up but maybe hey like you said Dan once you're in there in front of the kids that's where you want to be and you stay so if people don't want to be in there with the kids then maybe I shouldn't worry about it because I shouldn't you know, I don't want to have them anyway. I guess you know, it's a positive spin on it but no I'm going to be working hard to find some qualified coaches in the next few weeks for sure for the basketball season. Matt you take all my extra coaches, they're all coaches from all other schools from around Europe, get sense in a lot. I have been lucky right and luckily for me they are white experience veteran people so that's been making my life a little easier to work with them so I got some some people helping me out and it's been great. Yeah, some coaches from Munich and from Vienna now, yeah, Colin Budapest home. Yeah, which is nice. I did have a couple of people who tailed off this year for one reason or other who were in those positions and some of the reasons they're like okay, that's legit. Another one's you're like yeah, we are asking a lot. I don't lean on them a little bit, it is. Yeah, and try and you know, I got to battle through because sometimes I get a little, I guess a little upset about like come on, you know, you can do this, it's not much but it's hard to say, I'm not in people's shoes so hopefully it doesn't happen all. So I just try to keep everybody happy as much as I can, right? Keep giving them swag, that makes up for a lot. It's amazing how one t-shirt can have such a big impact on a coach's happiness. As soon as we get a new batch of t-shirts in, I feel like the box is empty and they've all gone or if someone sees t-shirts a little bit different from the one that they've got, coach's swag is definitely a real thing. Well, I'm thinking now with these four, I want to take stuff back. I want to, I want to only give out like first year you get a couple things and then the second year you get, I don't want to give, you know, 10 things to a new coach because maybe they, they, you know, don't last season two. So maybe I give two things and then two things and then two things, you know. Cougarie Sports is a clothing brand that specializes in providing the world's most prestigious schools with bespoke made and designed in uniforms. If you're frustrated by inconsistent colors, branding, costs, and sizing across your teams, then it's time to email someone at Cougarie Sports today. When you email contact@cougarie Sports.com, tell them about the Glove Trot Nadies and you'll receive a special offer on your coach or PE staff order. One thing that's always on my mind is, is that, you know, keeping the coaches happy in that relationship and sometimes you're worried that you can be chained to your desk and you find it in practice time when you want to be getting around and celebrating your coaches. And I remember last year, I think, I can't remember if it was an NITRA Play podcast that was doing a thing called "Gradity Tuesday", you may have heard of it. And so I tried that for a moment when I was sending out messages, just of gratitude to the coaches and what they were doing and out on a Tuesday. And, yeah, it was hidden, missed some coaches liked it and some coaches could tell by the end of the month they were like, "Okay, am I coming now? Is it my turn?" And so I've played around with different things. I just think the most impactful has been, whenever there's those events and genuinely getting out there and supporting your coaches, being at as many, taking every opportunity to just be there and to listen to them and to follow through one of my mentors in the past, a lady called Lucy McLaren. She really laid the foundation for me in how to just interact and respond and support people. And that's just all I continue to do as an AD. And I think if every AD is doing their best for their coach, visible, you've got the right intentions, I think you're going to get the buy in. And then when it comes back around to sort of working with them again, you've got that such a positive environment and you've got that culture at your school and then you do get people wanting to be a part of the program. And like I said before, it's a great thing to be a part of coaching is fantastic. Athletics programs create so many amazing opportunities that I just think, why would people not want to be a part of it? So I don't feel like we're trying to sell a struggle. I know it takes a lot of time, but it's a great, great thing to be a part of an athletics program, right? That's you get it. But for those inside inside the know, you were, we know, we know it, right? So we try to bring some more people inside our board with us, right? Just had a coach social on the weekend. It was well received. That's another one thing you can do. Well, we did give some tips. We talked about our schools and we gave some some different tips as we talked like, you know, pairing the outside coach with an inside coach and things like that. But you guys have some other tips for for people out there for finding qualified coaches that we didn't didn't talk about. I'm trying to think for finding I think in terms of this day called as a school. So your leaders, when it comes around to hiring season, it doesn't hurt to have those conversations and just to reinforce that often when teachers are coming to school, you'll get interviewed and asked what ASA you're going to bring. I love that I receive a list which shows all of the staff and what they're going to coach or what they're interested in coaching. So before they've even onboarded at the school, reach out and I can drop a line and say, wow, I mean, because people are already dreaming about this new school that going to and super excited and you kind of want to get in on that that take that opportunity to get in early and be like, isn't it great that your touch will just what we're looking for? You know, I've registered all the positive things and you're not lying in what you're communicating to them. You genuinely are excited as an AD that you might have the opportunity to get this coach in front of the kids and that you trust that somebody has interviewed this person and knows that they're aligned with the school's values and they're going to be a great hire. So it makes sense to just try and get them in early and my partner, she runs the new school orientation. So I sort of piggyback on that and attend the social events and take every opportunity to get in there and talk about our amazing athletics program and you're going to love getting in front of those kids. So that would be something I think would be a tip for any ADs there. You know, I mentioned kind of like building a pipeline of coaches, you know, getting your coaches to ask friends out there and I think that helps develop people getting people that already know a little bit about the program. Also alumni have been very successful with alumni the last few years. You know, depends on when they graduated. Their level, if they're a recent graduate, they know really what the program's about. People that graduated in the 80s may have been a different time. It takes a bit more onboarding, but you know, some kind of pipeline that we'll keep bringing maybe young assistant coaches in that can then be, hey, coaches in the future. Sure, depends on your city and if people stick around, things like that. But yeah, I think that that's been successful for me. Yeah, for me, we've just hired a new human resources director, which is a new position for our school, primarily to deal with our local staff, but also to have some input for the expat. I think, I don't know exactly sure. I actually had my first meeting with her next week, just to kind of introduce myself. She just got hired. But one of the points that's going to be on my agenda, my meeting with her is like, how can we reach out more to the local community and tap into some resources out there for getting coaches to come on board or if there's a pool out there, we could develop candidates involved in and then at least to get in the start getting some applications in maybe some interviews to where we are just so that maybe it's a little more of a getting them in here and most, you know, I would say 90% of the time the buy-in is there in terms of like what our philosophy is and getting them on board and I'm doing it. But that's one of my goals going forward or one of my strategies coming up this year is working with our HR department just get a little deeper into what's happening out there to pass and bring coaches in. Maybe I'll get some more burnt-out coaches from the local club scene. We'll see. Yeah, there you go, burnt out. You can revitalize them. It's great, you know, different recruiting channels, you know, wherever you can, thinking long-term, helping them develop, keeping them happy. It doesn't work in every case. My fall season can highlight that, but yeah, I think Dan, as you mentioned, if we keep at it and keep on it, we're going to find people and put them in a good spot. Awesome. Yeah, well, hey, here's something we haven't done in a little while, Nick, so we usually like to ask our visitor or guests, you know, tell us a little bit of something about Saigon. What's happening there? What's a good point? If I'm going to go to visit Saigon, what do I have to do? What I've got to eat? What's good to drink there? Enjoy my time in Saigon. Say shame on you if you haven't been already, but you know, I came to Saigon nearly 10 years ago now. Classic international teacher abroad comes for one year, ends up staying longer, but Saigon, I came for one, and now I'm still here 10 years on, and this city is a concrete jungle that just works, and it's just such a free place to live. The people is what sort of kept me here. I think they're just so kind, caring, and family orientated. So you just have such a great community around you, and whilst it is a big city and you're watching the air quality, and I wish there, you know, now I've a young door to try and wish there were more parks, and maybe it wasn't as hard as it is to be outside a little bit more, but it's just a beautiful place to live. In terms of the school and the setting were part of two international conferences. One is 16 schools, CSAC, and the other one is Marissa, Mekong River International Schools, which is eight schools, and there's a lot of opportunities for these students to get out there and travel and have these cultural exchanges. So for me, non-for-profit school, ticks all the boxes. It's fantastic, amazing head of school, it's a very strong leader. So to be in that environment, it's just yeah, a fantastic place to be. Saigon, you come to Saigon, you need a bowl of bun tic-nun, which is a rice noodle dish, a little bit of fish sauce, and spring roll. That'll treat you well in a cafe sudar, which is the local street coffee, which will keep you awake for a week, but yeah, there's a lot of things to enjoy here. And I hope to see you both out here at some point. Who knows? Who knows? That'd be great, Dan. Well, hey, thanks. Great to see you. And thanks for coming on. For the first time, maybe we'll get you back again, if you would like. All the best for the fall season and the rest of the year. Thank you, gentlemen. My pleasure. I think enjoy a well-deserved break and a week after a week for you, Nick. Yeah. All right. And you two get well. All right, take care. Take your medicine. It's so, it's your ride. The wall soon. Hi guys, thanks everybody. And we'll catch you next time on the Globe Trot NADs. This has been another episode of the Globe Trot NADs. We hope you enjoyed it. And until the next episode drops, head over to Globe Trot NADs.com or visit us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram.