Getting cheated on & co-parenting 7 kids w/ 4 fathers ft. Kail Lowry

Thank you to Quince for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Let me tell you the seasons are changing. It's starting to be time that we can get out our denims again. We can get out our sweaters and there is no better place than Quince. So many of the things I'm constantly reaching for in my closet to layer up, dress up, dress down, come from Quince because they have very, very high quality products. I'm talking 100% Mongolian cashmere. They have silk organic cotton wool. They have those premium fabrics but at an amazing price. Everything at Quince is actually priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands and that is because they work directly with ethical factories, cutting out the middle man so you're paying for high quality, not brand markup. Actually just last night Matt was telling me that he grabbed his shorts. I don't fit my clothes. I've been hitting the gym and so I need new clothes. He bought me Quince swim trunks that are really high quality. I wear them all the time when we go on the pool with the boys. I'm excited to see which he picks out from Quince for me next. Your nice khaki shorts are from Quince. With the khaki that I wear like literally every day. Yep. Those are from Quince. You don't even know where your clothes are from but if you had to guess they're probably from Quince because I love shopping their min section as well for Matt. You can wear them in many different ways for many different seasons. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to Quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks you where you heard about them, let them know that unplanned sent you. It's the best way to support the show. You don't need to have a child with everything that you're with. Sex won't make him love you and a baby won't make him stay. You may know kale Lowry from 16 in pregnant and the teen mom franchise. Have you ever tallied up how much money you've spent in court for custody? Overall it was a little over a million dollars. Over 90% of it is on one dad. While raising seven kids with four different fathers and building a media empire, kale recently suffered a devastating public breakup calling off her engagement to her fiance, Elijah Scott. The girl that he cheated on me with went on TikTok to do a story talk. What is it like to find out news like that with three million other people? I was floored. Kale talked to us about finding out she was cheated on through a viral TikTok, losing her father after years of astrangement and why she's falling in love all over again. I fell in love in 24 hours. I hadn't seen him in four or five years. I knew that I loved her and it was crazy because I've never felt this way. Kale Lowry welcome back to unplanned. Yeah, I think this is the first podcast that I've ever been like invited back to. Wait, no way. Yeah, I'm excited. You're kidding me. This is like not in a bad way, but just like you got to make your rounds with other people and so I'm excited. Yeah, I was so when EBM texted me, I was like, yeah, I'll do it. It's cool. It's been two years. Yeah, it's two years. Nearly two years. A lot has happened in two years. Yeah. I think to be honest, I started getting fed clips of you on different shows and you were talking about some wild stuff and I'm like, oh my gosh, what happened in Kale's life? There's been a lot. Yeah. So I guess for someone that hasn't seen any of the headlines or the news, like how would you catch somebody up that hasn't seen you in two years? Wow. First of all, to your point, my son yesterday or two days ago, before we came to Arizona, he's like, mom, when did you do all these podcasts? Because I guess they were coming up on his for you. Oh, yeah. And he said, when did you do all these? And I said, well, what do you think I do when you're at your dads? Like I don't just sit around. I have to work. You know what I mean? But how would I summarize it? Well, the last time I sat down with you guys, I think I had just had the twins pretty fairly recently. Maybe like they were about a year old maybe. So they're two and a half now. And then I found out their dad cheated on me on a cruise that I paid for. And the girl went viral on TikTok. And so I found out 10 months after the fact. And then he moved out and he's my neighbor. And then two of my kids, dads moved out of state. And I think, well, I got a new boyfriend who I've known since high school. And then we're hoping to move to North Carolina. So that I mean, I in a nutshell, that's like the main points. That's a lot. Yeah. That's a lot. I feel like someone could make a movie about your life, to be honest. Would love it. Can I name myself? If anybody knows anybody making movies about real life, kill our everybody. Yes. How are you processing through all that? Are you are you in therapy? Are you sometimes like? I saw that you take Adderall to help with ADHD. I'm the same way I took it actually before the interview. I did. I forgot mine. You forgot. Yeah. So I go, I asked my boyfriend. I said, Hey, can you grant me my medicine? I'm on that in Prozac for anxiety. And he pulled it out of my bag. And he's like, there's two bottles of Prozac and no Adderall. And I said, great. Have you accidentally ever taken your Adderall and Prozac at the same time? Yeah. Well, I thought I was supposed to know I took it at the same time. One time when I was on Prozac, I took it at the same time. And it like I felt like it was crazy. Like my heart started beating really fast. And I talked to my doctor. I was like, is this is this okay? And he was like, Oh, that's not supposed to happen. Don't take those at the same time. So I would take one in the morning and one at night. Wait, are you serious? Are you are you joking? Well, because, okay, because Prozac is for like anxiety, it's an antidepressant too, right? I'm having anxiety right now. Where's the Prozac? Where's the Prozac? I need a boost for immediately. Wait, okay. So take Prozac at night. I would, so yeah, I would because I would take my Adderall like in the morning. And then the Prozac at night, so that they weren't mixing and messing up like my serotonin levels. And it's called serotonin syndrome, when it like you have this adverse reaction. And then sometimes you have to be like hospitalized if it gets a little too crazy. Anyway, that's a side, that's a side tangent. That's a, no, I definitely need to look into that. Thank you for letting me know. I wonder why I'm so crazy all the time, even on meds. It honestly, when it happened to me, I was like, where am I? This is crazy. You're like, am I an Allison one? Yeah, seriously, seriously. Wow, okay. Last time we chatted, you were engaged. And then, oh, I forgot about that. Yes, you were engaged. And then how like, what was the timeline? I found out when I was in LA, it was working. Actually, I was on a work trip. I was in mid recording. And I was, we were doing a podcast swap. And so we finished Saraya's episode. And then I, they pulled me aside. I didn't have my phone. They pulled me aside, learned that. I went back in, took finished taking the pictures. I'm crying. I'm like, I can't do the other podcast. Like, I need to get home. I took a red eye home. I had told my assistant at the time. He needs to be moved out by the time I land. Yeah. So he moved out. And so then I landed at 7 a.m. He was gone. And then I would say the relationship with Isaac did happen really quickly. It was about six weeks later. But I also knew him since before my oldest son was born. So to me, it didn't feel super rushed. Like, I already knew who he was. And we kept, we kept up with each other over the years. And so I know a lot of people that saw this on social media were like, oh my god, what is she doing? Like, this is insane. And it is insane, for sure. But like, he's not a stranger. I didn't know. Yeah. So six weeks. So this was 10 months after it happened. Yeah. I found out 10, 10 months later. Yeah. Because of a video that was posted on TikTok. Yeah. The girl, I guess that he cheated on me with when on TikTok to do a story time. But where I was in Calabasas, there was no service. So even if I had had my phone, I wasn't getting, I wouldn't have gotten service to see the video. Everyone saw that there. I think that video had around three million views before I ever got to it. Oh, you're kidding me. What is it like to find out news like that? So personal, like with three million other people. I was floored because if you knew my ex, which we're on really good terms now, I do think that good people make bad choices sometimes. We're on really good terms. So this isn't, and he's also a lot, he's six years younger than me. If you knew him and you understood like when I say that he's not a people person, everybody was floored. It wasn't just me. It was the people who know him and the people who are in our personal lives were absolutely floored because he doesn't talk. Like he's, like if you're around him, he doesn't, he's not super friendly. He really doesn't smile a whole lot. Like he's just very stoic, I think is the word. And so we were all floored that he even had the ability to do this. And so it was, it was wild. Like, was there any part of you that didn't believe it? Because you're like, this is just a random girl on TikTok? I knew right away because I'm talking to my assistant on the phone because I had Alessandra does my podcast production. And then my assistant was home in Pennsylvania. And so she was like, there's this girl on TikTok and she's saying that, you know, she slept with Elijah. And I said, okay. And at first I was like, whatever. And then I said, is there any pick, are there pictures? And she said, there is a picture of her touching his arm. And I said, okay, then he did it because he's that type of person. If someone, if he allowed someone that close to him to touch his arm, he did it. Like I already know because that's, you have to break through layers and layers and layers to get to this man. So there's just no other, he did it. And then he did try to deny it at first, but then ultimately he came clean. Yeah, I was going to ask, how did that conversation go down when you got back home? We didn't have a conversation right away because I had asked for him to be moved out. And so we didn't have a conversation right away. But when we did have a conversation, he texted me and he said, can we talk? And I said, unless you're going to answer the questions that I already know the answers to, unless you're going to be honest, there's no reason to have a conversation. So at that point, he came over and we did talk. And this wasn't the first time you've been cheated on, right? No, for sure not. How? But I've also cheated. too. Oh, you've also cheated too. Not on him. I didn't cheat. I wasn't, I didn't cheat on a live show, but I have cheated on like in the past. Having been a cheater, having been cheated on, what would you tell to somebody? How would you explain all that to someone that's never gone through it? It's absolutely not worth it whatsoever. Like on one, when you are the cheater, right, because I've been one, you can't sleep at night because of what you've done or what is in your phone or what somebody could tell somebody or somebody, you know what I mean? Like it's just not worth it to have. And also when the other person finds out and they're crushed, like there are X's, there's two X's to this day. And I did them dirty. And I, to this day, if I saw them in public, I would apologize because there's, it's for what? For what? Because you love, I loved the way they loved me, but I didn't want to be with them. So why didn't I end it? Like that was so selfish. And then on the flip side of it, I got my karma. I've been cheated on multiple times by X's. And I mean, I would have done anything for those people. Do you know what I'm saying? So like, don't do it. It's not worth it. For your own peace of mind, for their peace of mind, for just the future, for whatever it is that you're trying to build, what is the point? I found it really interesting. I was reading through some of your Instagram content or comments, which I feel like when you read through comments sections, you have to, you have to take that with a grain of salt. Did I say that right? I always say that. I always say that. I always say that term wrong. I don't know why. You crushed it. That's how I was like waiting for it. I was like, you have to take reading comments with the grain of salt. Anyway, I'm reading your Instagram comments. And I found it very interesting. Everybody was asking for you guys to get back together. Yeah. A lot of people are wanting you to reconsider getting back with him. Mm-hmm. How did you take that? You're saying this with them. I'm also saying this. Yeah, this is your boyfriend. There's nothing that Isaac hasn't already heard. We are very open about it. We talk about it. We actually both have, I had merch that said recovering cheaters because both of us are recovering cheaters. No way. Yeah, for sure. Like, and you have to own it in order to move forward. I love that about you. We know who we were and we know who we want to be. And that's not it. You know, so now we just joke about it. Do you guys have trust issues? Are you like, are I giving you your phone? No, the only thing that I will say is I'm like, okay, he wasn't what super well traveled before me. So now I'm like, are you going to fall in love with like a random makeup artist I have or something? But that's not on him. That's like my own insecurity, you know what I mean? Like locked down makeup art. He's seen what has happened with Elijah cheating. Like, if he were to try to cheat on me, someone's going to tell me. Yeah, get ready for a three-part Patreon series. People ask like kind of saying that I should get back with Elijah felt crazy man. And he would make that five part. That would be a five part. No, because everyone was capitalizing off my pain. So I was like, well, why can't I capitalize off my own day? Honestly, good for you. Yeah, because I'm sure there was a lot of articles about it. I'm sure I'm sure the media. Articles TikToks and you know people can get paid on TikTok and YouTube. And so for me, it was like, I have to just, you got to hear it right from the source. What do you think? Was that the angle of the girl that like released it? Like that made the TikTok? Do you think was she able to monetize that stuff? Oh, for sure. Because she was already apparently. And this is, I don't know if this is a legend. But apparently she had like 200,000 followers on Snapchat. Oh, really? And so she was already kind of doing. And I think maybe only fans. Oh, I don't know if you knew. I think maybe maybe she was doing only fans or something and doing spicy content or whatever. And so I think that that was like a way for her. Because why are you telling us 10 months later? And she had liked posts of me and Elijah together on Instagram between the time she slept with him and the time that she announced it. Oh, really? Yeah, she liked our pictures from Spain that we they slept together May of 2024. We went to Spain November of 2024. And she liked all those pictures. So either you didn't recognize him with all his clothes on or like, I don't. Was she from his perspective? Was this like a one-night stance or a thing? Were they okay? Then no numbers were exchanged, no comments, no social media, to my knowledge. Obviously, people will come out of the woodworks and say if that's inaccurate. But to my knowledge, I don't think that they had any sort of relationship or, like, communication. Yeah. So, but I think you asked me about comments and people asked the thing for us to get back together. Yes. It felt a little bit like a slap in the face because when I was with my ex before him and we have two kids together, he was just a cheater all the way around. And so for me, it was like everyone harassed me to leave him and you're better than that. Why are you with him? And so I finally built up the courage to leave him. And now I'm with someone who cheated and I left him too. And now it's get back together. So like, you can't win whether you're with them or not. Yeah. And I'm not saying that you can't get through in fidelity. I do think that some people can. I really do. But for me, I just this is that wasn't it for me. How do you maintain healthy relationships with all of the fathers of your kids? How do you how do you communicate and make sure that the kids are where they need to be and that they're being taken care of? Especially now it says that you said that two have moved out of state. Yeah. So my oldest son, he's 16 now. I think last time we were together, I think it was like 14-ish maybe. His dad and I don't really communicate a whole lot. We really just, our 16-year-old is old enough to kind of do come and go. At least he's welcome to come and go at my house as he pleases if he wants to stay at his dad's longer. He can. He just has to let me know. I don't know what the rules kind of are at his dad's house. But my second kid, my second son's dad, he moved to Virginia last year. And we had just decided that he would stay with me for the school year, go to dads on long breaks from school three day weekends and then all summer. So he's there from the last day of school till about a, I think like a week before school starts. Okay. And we do email only. Unless we're going to do a phone call then we schedule the phone call via email. And if necessary, my assistant can be on just for a second set of years. We really try to keep it mainly about Lincoln. Like it's very rarely do we kind of, I guess, fall out of that. But we're really email only my lux and creed's dad, Chris and I, we have a court ordered app that we have to communicate on. But we also don't really communicate a whole lot. We don't get along even on that court ordered app. So we just don't communicate at all. And then he lies just my neighbor. We're fine to text call. We've never been through the court system. We never did anything like with custody or anything like that. We just automatically went to 50 50 and we just communicate as needed and we get along. Thank you to Shopify for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. You guys, in case you didn't know, we actually powered our website for the BizWell Beauty makeup company through Shopify. Anytime you start a new business, it's extremely overwhelming, especially your first one. There's just so many things you have to juggle and manage and know how to do. I'm so grateful for platforms like Shopify where they have all the tools ready for you. Everything you need to start selling is included and ready to go from day one with Shopify. Starting from the very moment your first customer is ready to pay. Shopify checkout helps more of them finish their purchases. And when they come back, their details are actually already saved in Shopify. So with one tap, they're done, another sale because Shopify handles the setup and checkout. 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That's NutriFull.com spelled in U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com promo code unplannedpod. Help me understand the court ordered app versus email communication with with your ex why why the difference is there is as you know is that to do with not wanting to um I don't know like if you're able to if someone's calling somebody on the phone you just brings up trauma for you I'm guessing to talk to each other so is it is it easier for mental health purposes just to keep it all over email? No I think my because that's my ex-husband my second son's dad is my ex-husband I think that it's just best that we keep everything in writing. It has the date, it has a timestamp. We've also never gone in front of a judge. We filed for what we have now on our own. Like we sat down in a room with our attorneys, came up with this agreement, filed it with the court. And so it just is more like a seamless and no lines are blurred. There's no questions to be had. And also I think it provides like a time if either one of us is frustrated or has like an emotionally charged response, it gives the other person time to like sit with it for a minute. You can't just respond right away. There's no texting, there's no calling, there's no, do you know what I'm saying? And so like this morning, he emailed me and said, hey, I just left the school with Lincoln to pick his classes. Can you talk? And I was like, yeah, call me whenever. Schedule it via email, do the phone call, and then summarize it in an email. So it just is more for just everybody, I think. The court ordered one is because we don't get along at all. And it's just a bunch of back and forth. And we're in and out of court all the time. So-- Have you ever tallied up how much money you've spent in court? Yeah. $350,000 in the year of 2025 alone. Oh my goodness. On one dad. That's not on all four. There was something that came out because I did the cost of custody series on my Patreon. And people were like, I guess like the headlines were thinking that maybe that was on-- overall, it was a little over a million dollars. But it not-- over 90% of it is on one dad. The rest of them, like Joe and I have not gone to court in probably 10 years, if not more. How do you and I have never gone in front of a judge for custody or our divorce? Everything was outside of a judge. And then the one dad is all court. How do people that have traditional jobs afford that? They don't. They don't. And that's so sad. And I say that. I talk about that in my series. Like, and I cannot preach enough. And I know that people will say, oh, well, she's a hypocrite. This isn't somebody to look up to. No, I'm not. And I've never claimed to be. But I am speaking from experience when I tell you, it is best case scenario for the children and best case scenario for the parents to come to an understanding and an agreement outside of court if you have to get an attorney, OK? But you are going to spend $3,000 to retain this attorney to sit down in a room and do this paperwork and hash it out for an hour if you have to in a room and then file it with the court then to go file with the court and then you're filing rule to show cause and then you're filing for contempt and then you're filing for modification and then you're filing for more time. And then it's the lawyer and the fees. And then you have to take off of work. So like, stay out of court. I get that it can't always be done. But if you can just put your pride aside for one minute and think about the kids, love your kids more than you hate the other parent, stay out of court. Does he also have to pay around the same amount? No. He doesn't have an attorney and he works part time. So then how does that work? The court offers leniency to pro-say people. So because he doesn't have an attorney and because he asks for the court to wave his filing fees, they do offer leniency because he doesn't have counsel. That's super interesting actually. And just so sad. It is. I wish that-- I do wish that we could at least come to an understanding where we could put the kids first. But-- What are the kids' understanding of what's going on when you're in and out of court with their dad? They know. The kids know. They're five and eight and they know. That is really hard. I can't even imagine. But it's my fault because I should not have-- I mean, if I could have the exact same kids with either no dad or the same dad, I didn't do myself any favors by having multiple kids' fathers. Do you know what I mean? I didn't do myself any favors with that. Does that make you hesitant at all to have more kids at this point in your life? Oh, I got my tubes cut out. My tubes cut out. Yeah, I made a joke about doing IVF for, like, Isaac and I to have a kid, but it was a-- I was being sarcastic. People did not-- They didn't understand it. Or some people took in a ram with it. They said that I did 12 rounds of IVF. And I was like-- I did see that. No, I literally was being-- I was asking him on a podcast like, oh, how many rounds of IVF did we do? Because I got my tubes cut out. And people really thought I was being serious. OK, wait, but hypothetically-- You can. I can't do IVF. Hypothetically. Hypothetically, but like-- And it would be insane. It was insane for me to have seven kids. Like, it would be insane for me to have another one. Hey, I was like, if someone could do it, it would be like a habit. I don't want to move out of Delaware. And I don't-- so far, we're not having any luck of already existing houses with the amount of rooms that we need. So I think we're going to pass on another child's. Yeah, how many rooms do you currently have? Six bedrooms, six baths. The twins are in the same room. Six bedrooms, six-- that's a big house. That's a really big house. No, I know. Probably this size. 5,000 square feet. 5,000 square feet? Yeah, I think it's just all about the layout. Yeah, so my house is more like a bigger foundation instead of going up this way. It is this way, does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So trying to figure out-- and I built this house when I only had four kids and no man. So I was like, I'm building this house. It's custom, and I have four kids. And there's a guest room. And there's all these things, right? And then-- You're like, we'll have all this space. What a mistake that was. So now we're trying to move. And I'm like, how am I going to fit? Seven kids into a house that's already existing. But I don't-- how would I build a house out of state? I don't know how I would build a house out of state. So I'm looking at ones that are already built. What is it? Ring your boyfriend home with your ex as the neighbor. You're driving away, huh? Yeah, we share a driveway. So the original farm, his house that he lives in is the original farm house to the farm. And then they subdivided it into four plots. And so I ended up buying the land to build on before he bought his house, the farm house. And so when it started building, I had met him. And so we split a driveway. But I mean, it's fine. I don't mind. I mean, is it a little too close for comfort sometimes? Sure. But other than that, I mean, it hasn't caused any issue so far. As someone that has seven kids with four different dads, what advice would you give the young women about having children? Well, one, wait a little bit longer to have kids period. But two, you don't need to have a child with every man that you're with. A baby, sex won't make him love you, and a baby won't make him stay. That's really sad. It's really sad, really sad. But hindsight is always 2020. I didn't know that when I was doing all the things, right? Like when I was, I just wanted to be loved so bad. I wanted to have a family so bad. And that's where my mind was. I think people look at my situation and they're like, this is insane. Like the kids are going to hate her. Like this is chaotic. I just wanted a family. Like that's what it, it wasn't that I was just sleeping around. I was with these people in a relationship with these people and wanted a family. So I think that's where people misunderstand me specifically. I think, you know, just just my just my take. I think it's pretty incredible what you've been able to do with everything going with everything that's going on in your life and has gone on in your life. The fact that you can pay over a million dollars to the courts of Delaware for custody battles is pretty crazy. The fact that like you've, you've made that money. I did just pay that attorney off in April. No way. So three months ago, I was able to pay that attorney off. Yeah. Like completely sealed the deal and my bill is done. Thankfully. What is that like having been so involved? I don't know a ton about family court. Like having been in and out of it so much. Like what reform would you like to see? Or if any, if you're like, oh, this is just how it is or I can't think of any like reform. The thing is that where I live, you can wave mediation. And so for some people, it's not great because then we're seeing we're in front of the judge all the time where mediation can be really beneficial for some people to not have to go in front of the judge. And so it gives them kind of what I was describing earlier, like meeting up with your attorney, sitting in a room, trying to come up with like something that works for everybody that you kind of don't like, but it works versus getting it to the judge. I don't necessarily, where I'm at, I wouldn't necessarily say any reform. But I think not allowing people to wave mediation, I think would be first. What's the benefit of not taking it to the judge? The judge could ultimately decide what he feels or she feels is in the best interest of the child and he doesn't know that child or those children. And so you might have been able to come up with something with your previous partner that works kind of for both of you. But best interest of the child where the judge might say, okay, well, now it's this and that doesn't work for anybody. That makes sense. And that's in Delaware. I can't speak for other states in Delaware. If you the judge rules on whatever your custody order is, you have to keep that in place for a minimum of two years. You cannot refile unless there are extenuating circumstances that would allow them to change whatever was ordered for those two years. Whereas mediation can be reviewed. Yeah. Like if you do it on your own and you file paperwork on your own, you can always go back and modify if something changes or whatever that looks like. With how much you've been in the courts, have you ever considered becoming a lawyer? Yes. That's like my dream. Remember that was your plan last time? That's right. Yeah, when the twins go to kindergarten. So they're two and a half. So when they go to kindergarten, I really, really want to go to law school. I wouldn't do family law though. In no world would I do law, I would never do family law. I could not, nobody wins in child and nobody wins in family law, nobody. I feel like if I were you, I'd be watching legally blonde every night. Just. Yeah. I had to come lawyers on my podcast because I'm like, I need to pick their brains. Yeah. Like I need to know all the things. So yeah. What area of law interests you? Entertainment. Okay. Because I also have experience with that. Yeah. And you guys know Nicole. She's been my entertainment attorney for eight or nine years and I just love her and love that I could negotiate. for people I've been on both sides of it. So I feel like I could make a good entertainment attorney if I'm, I don't know if I would litigate though. Like I feel like that would be a lot. - Something I thought was very interesting is you were on 16 pregnant as a 16 year old. Obviously, now your son, Elliot, he's 16. How does that feel that your son that was on the show when you were 16 is not the same age? - Your baby is now the age I were when you had him. - He's a better human than me though. Like he's doing all things. Like I feel like I was missing so much in so many areas of my life that led me down that path, you know what I mean? My son, I mean he's in national honor society. He's driving, he can get straight A's. He volunteers all the time. Like he's fluent in sign language. Like he's just such a good kid. And I just feel like, I don't know. Like I got really lucky I feel 'cause I don't know how he turned, like the mom like me, I don't know how he turned out like that. You know, you're cutting yourself short. He's a good kid and I'm just glad that he's, I tell him all the time that he, I was doing way worse things than he is. So when he's having like a little situation I'm like it could be worse. Like it's okay, we're gonna get through this. It could be so much worse and he's such a good kid. And he's mostly positive about everything. So I seem so sweet. And he has gone through a lot since the last time I'm gonna talk to, like as far as like even changing his name and he's so good at like sharing his own story and we'll let him do that too. But as a mom, what is that like with your child like going by a different name than you give him? - I'm okay with it 'cause it's middle name. And I think people are so confused but people go by their middle names all the time. - Right. - I will say I was a little surprised to learn that he had done it at school before I knew. - Oh really? - Yeah and so he switched from a middle school in the town that we are at. And in Delaware you can go to any school that you want. You don't have to like pay tuition or whatever. You can literally go anywhere. So he was like mom, I want to go to the school. He got into it and I got paperwork, his freshman year. And it said Elliott and I was like hold up. Wait, what is this? - That's not actually. - Yeah, I was like wait, are you going by Elliott? And he was like yeah. And I said oh okay, like how long has happened going on? He's like all school year. And I said okay, so like are you writing that on your papers? And he's like yeah, and I said what are the teachers call you? And he's like Elliott and I was like okay. Like if that's how you feel, like I'm proud of him that he was able to make that executive decision for himself. He did not ask how he felt about it. And I'm perfectly fine with it. It's so harmless. But if it feels true and authentic to him, I'm proud of him for making that decision. I guess he was 14 at the time. So I'm proud of him for it. - Yeah. - So that would be weird to find out in hindsight though. You're like they all know you as this. But we're all calling you this. - Well I felt bad. I was like if you wanted to go by Elliott, I more so felt bad in hindsight. I was like oh my gosh, did you say that to me and I wasn't listening? Like tell me and he's like no, I just, it was just easier to go by that at school. - What does it feel like to be the breadwinner when it comes to doing relationships that you're in? - I don't wanna do it anymore. I want someone else to make the money. I hate it. It's not a good time. And I would imagine that my partners feel some level of resentment throughout our relationship. I would imagine I don't know that to be true but I don't like it. - Why resentment to you? - Well I think that in today's society, I mean always really is like men are the breadwinners, men are the providers, women are the nurturers. They should be home and be the home makers. And I think that I didn't have a choice. Like I have built everything that I've built off of pure survival and desperation. So it's like I didn't know that it was gonna come to this. But I think that I don't know. And also I don't wanna hurt my partner because I am the breadwinner. I don't want us to not feel like equals. Does that make sense? - Do you think you would feel that way if it was the other way around where your partner was the breadwinner or is it because you are the breadwinner winner as a woman? - I'm just so sure. - That is such a good question. I don't know. - Yeah. I know that when I wasn't the breadwinner, when I was with Joe, and obviously we were young so it could be a little bit different as adults. I felt helpless and I felt like I didn't offer anything in the relationship. And so now I feel like this is the only thing I can offer. And that's also really hard. Like I really struggle with that a lot. - That's interesting that you've been on both sides of the equation and you didn't like either side. Do you think maybe somewhere in the middle would be your perfect situation where you're like making some money but you're not fully responsible for paying all the bills? I mean what's the place that you see hope in for the situation you're in? - I think that the percentage situation has worked out pretty well regardless of who makes what instead of going 50, 50, you're going 20%. Because my 20% is still 20% but it's doesn't equal to your 20% of bills, right? Or mortgage or whatever it is. I will say when I was married previously we had a good system going where it was like he paid the mortgage and I kind of paid everything else and so it was more balanced I feel. And so there was never, at least on my end I never felt like we were not equal in that way. But now I think that especially where I live it's hard because nobody male or female aside from like I'm talking about like creators and things like that. Like nobody's on my playing field. So it's really difficult for me and I never want my partner especially like Isaac, for example, he's in the room, right? Like I never want Isaac or someone to feel less than because I am the breadwinner and I don't want him to have resentment towards me. I don't wanna have resentment towards him. So I just, I don't know if there will ever be a balance that will come close to like a 50/50 situation in terms of like what we bring to the table not necessarily like exactly 50% of our incomes. So something that really stuck with me like I still think about even two years after our conversation was our conversation about like cosmetic procedures and surgeries and like the work you've had done. And I just found that conversation to be so refreshing with you because I mean, it's no secret that that's often taboo in today's culture. And you're just so great at speaking on it because also I feel like you're just, you're so candid with both sides because you were, you did recognize you're like, yeah, I got this because I was insecure about this one thing and I wanted to change about myself. And we were talking before we started filming. We were like, hey, you know what? Since we've last had it, I've gotten my teeth done, Matt got his hair done. - Hair, and the hair is much lower than it used to be. It's right here, new hairline. - I wouldn't even have known. Like you're, I wouldn't have, if you didn't tell me I would not have known that they look great. Everything looks great. I also had several for several procedures. I don't know what I said last time if I said I was done. - I think you were in Phoenix for some sort of procedure, right? Or to get some, to go to an appointment? - You know what it was, it was a consultation. - Oh, okay. - Did you go through with it? - I am not in Phoenix, but yes. I ended up getting a breast reduction. So I went from a 44, 46 triple D down to a B cup. And then I also did. - Did you insurance cover that? - No. - I mean, I guess they could have, but I didn't end up opting for it because it's like, yeah, are they heavy, sure? But like, but it's just one of those things, or else. Like I'll just do it. At the same time as my breast reduction, I did a scar revision. So in 2016, I had a tummy tuck. And then I had in 2023, I had a C section. So I had them move my tummy tuck scar down to combine it with my C section scar. And so that, I did all of that at the same time. - That's right, 'cause the tummy tuck came before the C section. - Yes, yep, exactly right. So I had them move it down. So now my scar, it's just one scar instead of two. - Which one hurt more of the C section of the tummy tuck? - Neither. I didn't, I lost it all feeling. So I never felt it. So when my C section scar reopened after I had my C section, I never felt it bust open. I felt the blood on my legs, because I didn't have any feeling. - Wait, was that graphic? - No, but I just can't quite fathom that. Having had a C section, I'm like-- - Like, they told me not to do stuff. And I went into dishes, and when I was at the dishes, I thought it was hot water running down my legs from doing the dishes, but I looked down, and it was my C section scar had opened up. - Do you still not have feeling there? - No, I still don't, from my belly button down, I don't have feeling from cosmetic surgeries. - Is that bothering you? - No. - From the cosmetic surgery. - I don't care. - You're like, I don't feel it. - I don't want to, whatever happens happens. It's none of my business. - Oh, and I feel like that would freak me out. - Yeah. - And then I got my double chin cut off last, in August. - Oh, wow. - Yeah, I did like a whole, I don't know the exact name, as I want to say, it's like a-- - I saw you talking about this. - You necklace, half facelift. I don't know the exact terms. You could go ask Dr. Tina Ho. She's great. I do got my double chin cut off, so you guys can compare the snatched. - Snatched. - Snatched, snatched. - Wow. - Of all those procedures, which one hurt the most? - My chin, because I wasn't a candidate for liposuction, because it was like genuinely saggy skin, and that's just genetic thing that my family has. And so this was, I mean, my face was like, it was, it was bad. - It swelled up after the surgery, and then it went back down. - It was so bad. - Oh, goodness. - It was horrendous, and then I had lip paralysis for three months or four months. - Okay, see, that must have been really bad, 'cause I feel like last time you said that liposuction, you felt like you were dying. - Yeah, no, the face was worse. I think 50/50, but like leaning more towards my face was worse, because also I'm in front of cameras all the time. - I feel like you're one tough cookie. - Yeah, I feel like-- - Yeah, I can thug it out, but not my face. I was suicidal, like it was bad. - How does you eat? - Oh, I was, I was gonna eat. You're, where there's a little, oh yeah, there's mine. - Are you? - Oh my gosh. - I'll send it to you guys. You guys can put it on the screen if you want for the video. - It was bad. - Was it, was it worth it? - Oh yeah. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Like, I don't know, like I still look in the mirror and I'm like, I have a jaw now. - Oh, I'm glad you're happy with it. And you can't, oh yeah, that one was bad. - Oh it was a little, slightly graphic. - Oh, from this far away, I'll be okay. Oh my gosh. - That looks painful. - That was really, really gross. - Put that one on the screen. - Yeah, I'll send them to you guys. - Trigger warning. - You mentioned doing the dishes and bleeding after the C section. Okay, like as the breadwinner, how, like which-- - How is this connected? - Yeah, which, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. - I wanted bread. - I couldn't work. - I'm trying to make a bridge here, and it's not really working, but I'm gonna try, okay? I guess my question is about like, the household duties of like, you know, laundry, dishes. - Hired out. - Cooking food. - Hired out. - You hired all out. - Pretty much. - So you have someone that like comes to your house, you have like a private chef that cooks for the kids? - No, I have a house manager, but she's like family, and she does my laundry and she cooks sometimes, so she doesn't cook all the time. We cook sometimes, but everything else, she manages all of it. - That's it, and she makes good food. - And she makes amazing food, yeah. And she teaches my kids Spanish, she's amazing. And she's just, she's like a mom, but she's too young to be my mom. - Yeah. - So she's only in her 40s, so she's too young to be my mom, but I would call her mom if I could, and her husband is my, I literally call him dad. Like her husband, yeah, there's a little bit of age gap there, so I call her husband my dad, like literally, if you ever hear my dad's dad, my real dad. And so, oh, he died since I talked to you guys last. - I'm so sorry. - Oh, I didn't know him. Remember, we talked about this. - Wait, did we talk about this? I don't know if we did. - I just, that's hard. - That's fine. - So anyway, so my dad who's not my dad is, he's married to her, and when I let go of my previous nanny, I was like, I wanna help the people close to me, and she wasn't working at the time. She had just moved from Puerto Rico to the mainland, and so I was like, would she wanna do this? - Yeah. - We were like, yeah. That brings up the topic of hiring close friends and family. - Never, don't do it anymore. Never again. - Except for your boyfriend. - Except for my boyfriend, but to me fair, he's a videographer, he's a photographer, it makes sense. - Been taking videos, I'm excited to see the video that you're working on. - He does a good job. - I would never, would never do it again right here. - No, I think, I would not. - I would not, yeah. I mean, I have had really a great luck with my dad and his wife, but other than that, I would say no. - Don't do it. - Thank you to Haya for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Something that we've been thinking about is how our kids are the first generation growing up on ultra-process foods. What are those long-term effects? We don't know, so we're trying to fill the gaps in, you know, nutrition with vitamins, and that's why we're huge fans of Haya. - And that's actually exactly why Haya exists. To give parents a real solution in a market flooded with kids' vitamins that prioritize candy-like appeal over actual nutrition. 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No synthetic hormones like melatonin, no sugar, just calm support to help them recharge for everything they've got going on. - We just genuinely love their brand and use it and trust it on our kids. - Yeah, the kids play with the stickers, they put the highest stickers on our freaking car. - They're beautiful. You can now find Haya in-person at Target, too, stores nationwide or order directly from their website with a special deal we've worked out just for you. Receive 50% off your first order on any of their products. To claim the deal, you must go to www.hayahealth.com/unplanned. This deal is not available on their regular website, so go to h-i-y-a-h-e-a-l-t-h.com/unplanned and get your kids the full body support they deserve. - Thank you to Zach Doc for sponsoring today's episode. I love not having to drive to the doctor to have an appointment, especially when it comes to getting refills on my ADHD medication. And that's why I'm a huge fan of Zach Doc. You can score same day appointments. I've done that multiple times, like the time that I got a concussion and needed to get seen. And so I was able to have a little appointment there with Zach Doc. If you haven't heard of Zach Doc, they have more than 150,000 providers with 200 plus specialties across all 50 states. Appointments happen fast, usually within 24 to 72 hours. And like I said, you can do a same day appointment sometimes too, which is really convenient. - It's really cool, 'cause you can search and find in network doctors, which is amazing. I feel like that's something that is really hard. Even if you do have insurance nowadays, it's really hard to find providers that take your insurance and they make that super user friendly for you. You can also find local doctors, not just online appointments like Matt prefers, but it's really great that Zach Doc can connect you with local providers as well, across a range of specialties. I'm talking anything from eye care to dermatology, mental health to dental health, they have it all. - Your health matters and taking care of yourself shouldn't be complicated. Find and book the right doctor with Zach Doc. Head to Zach Doc dot com slash unplanned to get started and check that appointment off your to-do list. That's zo c d o c dot com slash unplanned. (upbeat music) - How was that losing your dad at such a young age? - Well, I didn't know him. I got a lot of closure before he died. I saw him two weeks before he died. That was only the second time I had ever met him. - Oh wow. - Yeah, so the first time I met him was on national television. - Oh wow. - And then I didn't see him for, I guess, 16 years. My aunt called me and she was like, you know, he was not looking good. You should see him. So I flew down with my sister and we saw him and I got a lot of answers. Like I got so many answers that I didn't get when I was 16 and when I was filming the show because I don't think I was mature enough to ask the questions that I should have. And so a lot of people were like, why would you wait until his death bed? But it was like when was another opportunity? I hadn't talked to him since I met him the first time. So I got a lot of answers and I'm at peace and I hope he really was at peace when he died. I kind of feel like he was able to kind of go peacefully because he got to see my sister and me after, you know, my sister's 30 and he hadn't seen her in 25 years either. So it was I think just peace for all of us. - What was the question that you asked him that you didn't know to ask when you were 16? - Why he gave up, why he didn't try for us. And I think I might have asked it when I was 16 but I don't think it, because the cameras were there and it was just less private, it was more like impassing and it was like, well, you know, I knew you'd come find me, right? But when we went down and I saw him before he passed away he gave me the full story, full details, full disclosure with everything about why he gave up. Everything that he did before he quote unquote gave up. And it just gave me completely new perspective on just dads in general, not even just dads in the 90s and why they would give up but just dads in general. - To help humanize him? - Yeah, oh yeah, my dad, it's weird to call my dad 'cause he didn't raise me but he, it humanized him a lot and I could sort of understand kind of why he was the way he was and why things kind of were, why we were estranged. - Did you go to the funeral? - I tried but that was during the, I had a flight book to go to the funeral and then it was that during the TSA or something where all these flights were getting canceled and people were getting stuck where they were and I was gonna go down for the funeral and make literally like it was like a 24 hour trip situation and I was so scared that I would be stuck there and not be able to get back to my babies so I ended up not being able to go. My sister went, she lives in Texas though so it was a little bit different and so I didn't get to go but I would have loved to. I did try. So. - That's really cool that it's not great how it happened with not having him present your entire life but that you could reach some type of closure and get some answers. - For sure and I feel like for a long time after I met him the first time I was really bitter and I kind of went through that on and off throughout the years between the first time and the second time and then by the second time I felt so much peace. It was and I hope for him too. Like I really do. - What are you doing as a mom now to seven kids? - I want my kids to have good relationships with their dads even if I don't and so I and they know that. Like I would never intentionally keep my kids from their dads no matter how much I don't like them at the time or you know things like that. So I think just reminding them that we're all human parents, we're all doing this for the first time. So whether they're Dad and I. It is important for you to have a relationship with them and so I can't dictate how that's going to look, but give them a chance, make sure that you hear them out too because it's not just what I say goes, right? You have another parent and so I do try to facilitate them to maintain a relationship with their dads. On the topic of kids, you said that you wish, I'm not going to quote you correctly, but you wish on anyone you love that they could have twins. It's so special about, I mean, I get it, I would love to have twins, I think that sounds so fun, but what about that bond or what is it? It is obviously my single tins are great, I love them all, but there is something so special about twins and they're bond and like watching them together, I've never experienced anything like it until I had twins and so it's so fascinating. I don't even know on any other word, but it's a different kind of bond I think than the rest of their siblings and I don't want to exclude the rest of their siblings. So if you ever watch this, I'm really sorry, that's not what I meant. I just mean like it's, they were in the womb together. What type of twins are they? They're fraternal twins and my girl is, so verse is the boy, he's baby A and then valley is the, wait, did I say that right? So verse is the boy, he's baby A, valley is the girl, she's baby B and they're fraternal. They're born four minutes apart and I don't know, there's just something about their closeness and their bond that is a little bit different than the rest of the kids and I, I know twins is crazy because like you're like you have to do two of everything, but if, listen, if you weren't already pregnant, I would wish twins on you and in the future, if you have more, I hope you have twins. Wish I wish it. Yeah, okay. Well, the funny thing is I was with my hair stylist, like I don't know if I told you this last time, she's a twin and she wanted twins and so we were, I was in the hair chair and I'm like trying to manifest twins for her, I'm like, oh yes, you knew it because she was trying. I hope you have twins, like you're gonna have twins, she loves being a twin and then the next time I went for a hair appointment, I was pregnant with twins, so I, it went a little too hard. It's spread. The wrong one. I love them though. I love them. The wrong one. The wrong one. It was supposed to be for her, not for me. Yeah, sorry. No, I'm so impressed. I hope your hairdresser has twins one day too. No, she's one and done. She said. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it's fine. It's fine. How is this summer going? You're going to 23 different cities, you're doing shows all over the country. I think you're even going to London, which is really cool. Yeah, my kids are playing soccer in London, so I was like, since we're already gonna be over there, I might as well do a tour date. I cry a lot. I do cry a lot because I'm tired. I don't know how you do it. I don't have a choice. Like, I think about every day, how am I going to maintain what I have built for seven kids because as you guys know in this industry, like, it's ever changing, ever evolving. People, creators disappear and the new creators pop up and people get canceled and how long can I hold on to this to be able to support seven kids with the life that we've built so far? Like, I stress about it all the time. Hopefully, yeah, if you see me on the street, just know it was pure desperation. I will do whatever it takes. Honestly, if it's not too much, is it okay if we ask, is that a couple of questions? I'm also just genuinely very interested in you because like, your life has probably changed more in the past year than it has maybe ever. I don't know. I mean, you went from, I'm guessing, not like having, having kids to then be around seven kids, so that's, that's a big change. Yeah, so I do have a daughter. You have a daughter. Everyone, that's a completely different scenario. That's a completely different scenario. Prior to Kelleni, you know, dating, like, I just, I worked and fished, like, I just, that was it. Yeah. So, Kelleni, we are dating and my life has went from just fishing all the time and just relaxing to, hey, kids got school, sports, we're on tour, a whole bunch of other stuff, you know, like, our days, if I were to show you our calendar, you would, my phone is, oh, it's on the pocket. I mean, it sounds like you're in a different city every day right now. Yeah, so this is just our calendar for the month and things get added, things get added daily. So, you really have to click on it kind of like every two hours and I'm noticing right here. It says have all kids and it has like a big line where you have kids. Yep. So, now we game plan. You know. When we have the kids and what we, when we don't have the kids, so every other week for the summer is like, I know what I can plan for the weeks that I have the kids in the weeks I don't. Mm-hmm. So, that's how it like, and you have, and you have kids right with you right now. No. Oh, you don't. So, that all the tour travel is when I'm, when the kids are with their dads because we do 50/50 summers. Got it. So, the tour was able to be scheduled. Live Nation really helped me out with that because my first tour, it didn't work out that way. I like sent them dates. I didn't have my kids and then they still sent me on tour with, when I had them. So, this time, Live Nation really worked with me and they scheduled just the days I didn't have my kids. For people that buy tickets to the tour, what can they expect? Um, I don't think your audience is buying tickets to my tour. Really? Abby. That's a little lunch. Wow. Oh well, I ate a worm the other day. You ate a worm? You ate a worm? Yeah, I don't think that it's telling what you did to me. Shocked them with a dog collar? I don't necessarily think it's your audience's vibe, okay? Yeah. Really? I didn't even sign up for it. I would just volunteer. Is this tour a bit more on the PG-13 side? No, absolutely not. It's rated R. Oh, rated R. This tour is rated R. No children. No under 18. Like, this is not your audience. Okay. Gosh. Now, now I want to know what's happening. I get tickets. I guess we need to get tickets to your tour and come check it out. I don't know that you'll invite me back out. So, let's just keep the relationship where it is, you know? No, it's a good time. It's a good time. It's like that. Isaac, how are you dealing with being in the public eye now? Because I'm guessing you weren't before. I wasn't. I didn't really care for social media like that. Fishing doesn't have a lot of eyes. Not a lot of eyes and fishy. Yeah. Now that I'm kind of in the public eye, I mean, I still just lay low. To my part, I don't post any like crazy social media things. I post things that I would regularly, like if Kellen, I weren't together. And 99.9% of it, it's just fishing. He does a really good job not responding to anything. Yeah. Like, even if it's a headline about him, he will not respond. He doesn't comment. I mean, maybe troll back in his own comments, but he's not. Yeah. I've just always learned like sometimes no response is the best response. Yeah. So I just let go of the bigger person. Earlier, we were talking with Kale about like the conversation of her being the breadwinner. I'm curious from your perspective what that's like being in a relationship like that. I don't really look at it as like the breadwinner, right? I just kind of look at it as like, you know, she does her part and I do my part. So like, you know, she, she owns her own network, her podcasting network. She has three podcasts going. And here I am if I'm behind the scenes, taking pictures, videos, editing, you know, whatever the case may be, being sure, you know, part of the house is, you know, being ran, you know, just I do my part in certain ways to where I don't look at it and say, hey, well, she's the breadwinner. I just look at it like we're a team. You handle this aspect. I handle this aspect and at the end of the day, we come together and, you know, the house is running. Yeah. I've never heard of relationships before, not many, but like my relationships were long. I look at it like I don't want to date, you know, like I'm past that dating stage of life. Like I want to build and I want to create and I want to, you know, wake up to the same person every day, go to sleep to the same person every day. I don't want a revolving door, right? And it took me a lot of, you know, maturing, you know, for myself, like what the, the frontal lobe. I think my frontal lobe really started to develop when I was in my late 20s. So by the time, you know, I got myself together and it was like, hey, like I just want one solid individual in my life, you know, sun up, sun down. And I told her actually when her and I initially, you know, we got together, it was I want to learn and I want to see every phase of your moon. I'm sure he did, he sure did very quickly and still do what you guys mean, it means I have 12 personalities and he's learning all about them every day. Yeah, like, you know, but when I don't have my prosak in my outer role, yeah, it's just more less like you can portray being happy, go lucky every day, right? But you're going to get tired because eventually when you're stressed or stressed, when you're mad, you're mad. I want to see every phase and every side of you. I know life isn't smiles and butterflies every day, but I want to, I want to know you when you're at your lowest and I want to know you when you're at your highest. So that's what I mean when it's, I want to learn every phase of your moon. Yeah, what does marriage mean to you family and a unit and a team and everything I didn't have growing up and I want, and he knows that he recognized that very early on that I just want to be loved, I just want to have a family. And so I think that marriage would solidify that not that we're not already a family, but I think I was too young the first time I got married, and no disrespect to you, but had I known more or waited a little bit longer, that marriage might have worked out, but we were so young. And so I think that now that both of us have. You were 20 years old and married. Yeah. Well, I don't know how old were you guys when you were. So you got married at 20 and 21. See? Okay. But for me, I couldn't be married at 20 years old. Yeah, I tried it. It didn't work. Like, just the people I hung out with, my mindset at the time, like, I wasn't ready for that commitment at 20 years old. I wasn't either. I didn't even know if I was going to stay in college, drop out, join the military. I didn't know what I was going to do. So trying to commit to somebody or something at 20 years old, that was extremely challenging. But you guys also had good childhoods, right? We talked about that last time. We did. So I think that we had very similar upbringing. So I think that we also have always operated on a completely different. Oh, so many things changed. It's not like we're just like mega mature. You got. Listen, when you guys, you know, I'm sure, have disagreements or something, you know, it's okay. Well, you're upset. You're upset. We'll come together at some point. We'll just talk about it. And for me, if I'm 20 years old, it's. We weren't able to do that. No, the hell with your opinion. I'm right. Or even though I'm wrong, I'm still right. Like, I. He went to high school with my oldest son's dad. And we always say that if we tried to be together before we. Before we got together, we wouldn't have lasted. We wouldn't have been interesting. Because I told you guys earlier, I had cheated in the past. He's also cheated. Like, we would have just cheated on each other. It would not have been what it is today. Thank you to Honey Love for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. Ladies, why is it so hard to find comfortable bras and shapewear? Well, I know. I've been struggling with that too. Be quiet. If only you knew how it feels to have a wire just sticking you in the armpit. You got stuff up the crack. Oh god. It stuff is squeezing. It's hard to feel like you, where you feel like a can of biscuits. Yeah, you don't want to feel like a can of biscuits. But I genuinely am such a fan of Honey Love. 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I'd be like, "Oh, I like this person," but then they find out about everything going on. Most guys would probably run away. They probably would go, "Oh, I don't know if I want to raise seven kids. I don't know if I want to deal with the baggage or someone overcoming a breakup. What was it?" Or the four baby dads. Or the, "Yeah, the four." You can just call it for what it is, Matt. It's fine. I'm not offended. So I guess that's what I'm asking. What was it about Kale that made you go, "Oh, no, I don't care about all that. I want to be with her despite all of those things." I fell in love in 24 hours. 24 hours. You didn't care about the kids and the baby daddies? I didn't give a damn. Her and I, you know, I didn't know off the bat that she was fresh off of breakup. But it came out at some point, and we were just supposed to just meet up and just, you know, go grab lunch or something like that. And let's say we had the conversation last Tuesday, and she's like, "Hey, I'm free next Saturday. I don't have my kids. We can go grab lunch." Cool. The next week comes. Here comes Thursday. Hey, I'm sorry, but the only way we can hang out is if we go to Texas. I had to work. I forgot that I have to be in Texas. I had to work. So I'm like, yeah, you know, I didn't, I didn't work weekends. I worked Monday through Friday. So I get off work Friday. She's in a hotel in Philadelphia. Hang out, board a plane, go to Texas. And as soon as, and this is crazy. Your first date you're flying to Texas? Yeah. I hadn't seen them in four or five years. Yeah, it was long. It was just the vibe. It was, it was the vibe. It was the personality. It was the, the whittiness, the, the, just being unhinged, just really, I'm serious. So I knew that, that I loved her. And it was crazy because I've never felt this way. So we get back from Texas after hanging out for 24 hours. Give her a hug. Probably low kiss. Probably. And I start crying. And he leaves and I start crying. Because I'm like, I'm never going to see him again. We had all this great time. I fell in love with this. I didn't tell him that. It was awesome. And then I'm like, he's going, he's going to be a douchebag. So she's crying in her denali driving back to Delaware. I lived in the Poconos in Pennsylvania. So I cry on the way home to the Poconos. Bane, you don't have to say that. My bad. I'm on a phone with my brother. He's like, Hey, man, how was Texas? He, he asked about you not being scared of the kids. Yeah, I'm getting there. So, so, sorry. No, no, no. So I'm on a phone with my brother. And I'm just explaining everything. And I'm explaining how the vibe went and all of that. So I come down to Delaware at some point, right? First day, I, there were seven kids at the house. I say hello to her. And I'm outside playing basketball or football. I didn't see him for like two, three hours. He's just with the kids just out there. Okay. Uh, you're on my team. You're on my team. Used to we're on that side. Let's go. I'm all time quarterback. And I didn't tell the kids who he was or anything. Cause I mean, so it was just, it felt so natural. On top of it, I coached football at one point. And then also I'm the youngest of six. So the kids didn't bother you. So the kids didn't bother me. What about the kids dads? No, because the past is the past to be fair. Right? So you can't always live in a past. You live and learn and you continue. And if there are people who still live in the past and they talk about whatever can be, you're just reminiscing on old things. This is nothing that is current. So for me, it was like, it is what it is. I don't have the best past. She doesn't have the best past. My past is the past. Hers is the hers. Let's build. Let's go. We start from here. We work on our foundation. We work out the nooks and crannies. And we take off. I like that. That's good. That was nice. That was a good story. See, when that the first date was the Texas we would go on on one date. And then from that one date, we never made it to lunch. We went, because we were going to go to lunch on Saturday. But I was like, Oh, actually have to be to work in Texas on Saturday. So the only way we can go to lunch is in Texas. Okay. So we had to go to Texas for our first date. Wow. And we might have been run. I think we flew out at like three in the morning. I had just got them working 12 hours. So I got off of work at probably, I'll say midnight, go home, shower, and then drive right down the Philly. I don't sleep. We're on the plane from Philly down to Dallas, Texas. And we're up. And we made it. We survived. So it's been great. It's been fun. If you guys, I'm guessing we brought up the marriage conversation. Uh-huh. If marriage is happening, what are your thoughts on a prenup? Is that something that would happen? I think so. I think so. I have never thought about it. My last attorney had told me that if you have anything that is valued at more $10,000 or more, you should get a prenup. So even if it's assets, the mistake that I made in my last, in my divorce was not having a prenup. And then we owned two houses at that time. And so he was trying to take the one that I was living in. And so it was one of those things where like if we had a prenup, that wouldn't have been a situation. It ended up all working out. The judge was like, or was it the judge? The one of the attorneys was like, you're going to get this house. You're going to get this house. That's it. And I think just to avoid that, like he does have his own stuff. And so I wouldn't ever want him to feel like I was going to take that from him. Yeah. I think we should we would probably have a maybe. We have really talked about it. I've never thought about it. It's never crossed my mind because for me, it's like you get married for a reason. So I understand divorces do happen, but that's not in my vision or even in my, you know, my mind. It's, you know, this till death do us part. So yeah, actually, okay. No, before we wrap, we have to play a game with you guys. Okay. I'm scared. But this is a couple curious questions that are just not related. I don't really know how to tie in, but we're also not pressed for time. I know that you're not only an author. You're also an avid reader. Yeah. And I just wanted to just have a minute for a while. Yeah, we, yeah, we should. But no, what are you reading right now? Okay, no, I was gonna ask you that question. I'm reading Kite Runner. Kite Runner is an incredibly sad story about Afghanistan from like the 1960s all the way to, I don't know, present time, basically. And then I'm also listening to Mad Mabel on audio. I've never heard of that one. Thank you to everybody that submitted questions on the unplanned podcast Instagram. Our first question is do you stay in touch with any of the other teen moms? I talked to Kate and Ty a lot. They signed to my network. And they have a podcast. I talked to them. They just did guessing on my tour. And sometimes Chelsea and sometimes Macy. Oh, and then Ashley. I'll see Ashley on this week. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So you do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while. It's been a long time. I haven't seen Ashley since I think 2018. So it's been a long time. But like, well, I'll congratulate her when she graduated from college and things like that. So like on social media. Next question is who is your favorite ex, Lafay face? My favorite ex is what? Yeah. Probably one of the only people you can ask that question. I just want to acknowledge. Honestly, probably Elijah. He doesn't bother me. He doesn't bother us. And he's chill. We didn't even never been to court. So I can say him. Nice. Hey, not going to court is a perk. It's a win. That's a win. Okay. Next is how is it having a girl after having so many boys? Okay. To be fully honest about this, it wasn't much different at first. And I was surprised by that. I thought it was going to be different right off the bat. It was not because when they're infants, she was wearing a brother's hand me downs, right? Like it was not. But now getting to do her hair and she's so sassy, I nobody prepared me for that part of it. She's very sassy and she loves pink. Everything pink. She is a little scrappy with the boys. She also loves pink. And I absolutely love that for her. Yeah. Why don't you tell them how she says the word strawberry? Straw babies. Can I please have some strawberries? It's going to kill you when she starts actually saying strawberry because I think about it. Yeah. I know. I hate it. I don't like I don't want to correct them because I want them to say the wrong thing forever. I know. So cute. Um, Kaylee says how often do you get to have all your children all at once? Every other week. Every other week. So during the school year, I have 90-10 custody. So during the school year, they're always with each other pretty much. And then they go to their dads on the same weekends. And then in the summertime, I have all the kids on the same week and then they go to their dads on the same week. So when I have them, I have them all together. Yeah. I did that on purpose so that they would be together. It's all coordinated. Yeah. Sierra says, would you ever allow your child to go on teen mom if the rules were reversed? No. My kid, no kid of mine would go on TV as a pregnant teenager. I, I wholeheartedly think that nobody was looking out for us. It worked out, but I don't think anyone was looking out for it. I didn't even have an attorney look at my contract. So I think about it so often because I think there's still our series on like reality TV series of teen moms. Um, unexpected on TLC as I was gonna say on TLC. What are your thoughts on that? Oh, I went, oh, I went into a tangent about that. I don't love it. I don't think it's great. And I also think that one of the main character, like main character, that's not good. One of the main people on that show, I think the mom like encouraged it. And I think that it's, it's almost like undoing the work that teen mom in the beginning was trying to do was to show people that this is really hard. And it, you know, one of us is crying. One of us can't pay for something. One of us, you know, our boyfriends breaking up with us. One of us doesn't have parents, right? And like in the beginning years of teen mom where it was doing the work, um, I think the unexpected series is kind of undoing that. I've seen a lot of clips for it and it was surprising to me that this was current, you know, I mean, like, yeah. Yeah. Interesting. You'd be a good person to consult about that. Well, if they ever have any reunions in the future, replace Dr. Drew with me, I feel like people would watch for sure. Sign me up. Britney says, tips for getting through the newborn trenches. You've done it six times. Yeah. No, that's double. I will say the first year for every single one of them was the hardest for me. I don't know if you felt that way with the sleepless nights was so hard or the, the before I learned about baby carriers and like the Ergo. We love baby carriers. Oh my gosh. Well, I didn't know in the beginning. And so when you're either having to hold them all the time or you just lay them down and they do nothing, but you have to be careful. You can't put them on a couch. You can't put them on a bed, but you don't want to put them on the floor, especially if you, if you have pets. That was really hard for me. So, sleep when, let the dishes pile up, let the dishes pile up, order take out and sleep with that baby when that baby sleeps. Sounds good, but I know it won't happen. Our whole, our baby is both of them the whole first like four months. They were just like strapped to Matt during the day. Like, or either one of us, they just needed to be worn. Yeah, they would have taken it to us. They're gonna sleep unless we're wearing them. That was writing Matt Matthew's horse. Sorry to open old wounds. I.L.Y. I don't know the context. What is the context? It's not sexual. Okay. It's not, I don't know where I thought. What is that question? Where was this going? Help. This interview just keeps surprising. I know what this is. Yeah, he was there. I help record it. I'm gonna show you. You'll understand. Who's Matt Matthew? He's a comedian and he's not, I mean, if you're looking to tap into somebody else's audience, definitely have him on, but I'm gonna show you what it is. You're not ready. He is a funny guy. I basically almost died. Matt, make him stop. Make him stop. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Hold back. Whoa. Whoa. It felt insane on that horse. Like, I just knew I was gonna die. That is dangerous. That is really dangerous. I didn't have a helmet. Almost. But the gates were closed. No, mate. No. Well, and my luggage was all lost at the airport. So I had flown to Alabama. I didn't, I just did that in the airport close. I didn't even get to shower or anything. We had just gotten there two hours before. And so the gates closed to his property. And if that, if they weren't closed, that horse, that's why the horse came to the stop. But it did. And I came forward. But if it didn't, I wouldn't be, I would be a dead woman for sure. But then I started to slide off and was able, but I mean, you know, memories. Do you have any injuries from that? I could not walk right for about three weeks. Like, my inner thighs were in so much pain. And I was just like, it was, it was bad. I was like, you definitely had some bruises. You stayed so calm. Well, if I freaked out, what would have happened? Well, that's what he taught me to do. And then it didn't listen to me. Yeah, he goes kale. But this, this was also the thing is that she was giving, she was giving the, the horse two different sides. My legs were not tight enough. So they're slapping against his side, telling him to go off. And then I'm pulling back, saying, whoa, so I was confused. It was my fault. She's like, well, well, I don't know about that. Well, that was, you're such a good sport. You are a good sport. Brittany says, baby names you loved, but never used. Oh, I'm so sad. I'll read them. You have a list. Yeah. On your phone. And I keep adding to it. Wait, why would you keep adding to it if you're not going to have any? Because I mean, maybe my grandkids. Hey, that's an idea. Okay, number one girl name in the whole world. Maybe. Cute. Sayla. Cute. Sway. Miller for a girl. Call her millie for short or mills for a boy. Easton. He's from Easton. Indigo. Call her Indie. Myer. Major Ocean. Teo. Monty. Road. Seal. Shadow. But call her shady. Sunday. But call her sunny. And wavy. She, she came prepared. You came prepared. Yeah, I don't know. I'll never get to use them. But I'll know how quickly you pull up that list. That's like a pit. That's a pit. That's a pit. That's how you know she's done. It was sad. But it's. I hear it's time, you know. Last user, so many questions or user audience question. Emilia says Emilia. Yeah, I think it's Emilia. What is the most rewarding thing about being a mom of seven? I just love watching the siblings. I didn't grow up with my siblings. I met my sister when I was 19. So seeing my kids interact with each other is all wait. There's, I mean, they never cease to amaze me. They're either fighting in some way or just being really sweet to each other. And I love that. I think it's really cool to watch. That is my favorite too. Yeah. When you're having two. Yeah. No, I think even having two, you see it. And I like little bond is like so sweet. Yeah. Okay. Next, we have agreed to disagree. So I'm going to say, I'm going to say a prompt. And then you can either agree or disagree with it. And you guys can both play. Okay. Okay. All right. Okay. First up is money can buy happiness. Agree or disagree? Disagree. Agree. Why do you agree? Because money can buy your time back. And so like if you have money to hire help for certain things, then you get your time back to go do stuff with your life. loved ones. - Why do you disagree? - Just because if you're looking at for sort of monetary, monetary things, like you can't take any of it with you. So happiness, like to me, it starts at the core. So that's why. - I think we're both right. - I like it. - I like it. - I like it, I like that you guys had a compelling argument. - Yeah, different takes there. - Yeah. - Okay, next one we have is not everyone deserves a second chance. - Three, two, one. - Okay. - Agree. - Agree. - I'm thinking of like worst case scenario, the worst criminals we've ever known, right? Like the ones on death row, if they're definitely guilty, I'm thinking some of them probably do not deserve a second chance. - Next one is the agree to disagree, the pain of cosmetic surgery is worth it. Three, two, one. - Agree. - I'm just gonna be neutral because I've never had cosmetic surgery, but I'm gonna disagree. - In the next thing I'm gonna disagree, I'm not gonna be neutral because it looks like it hurts. - In the moment, in the moment of stealing, you'll never do it again. And then again, going back to like the newborn when all the hard parts wear off, then you're like, oh, I could do this again. So I'm saying agree. 'Cause I've gone back and forth 100 times over the years. - Hair transplant hurts so bad afterward, but hey, now I have hair, I used to not have hair. (laughing) - Okay, agree to disagree. Couples should not share a bank account. Three, two, one. - Disagree. - Louise. - Yeah, I could disagree. Yeah. - There's nuance, there's nuance because I would say have joint and separate. Like if you're like, we have separate accounts too, but we also have a joint. - Got it. - Yeah, I can piggyback off that, yeah. Like I think it's, but it also depends on how, like if you have a joint account, how much that other person might spend because that might not be something that you're happy with. So it's like, why do we have 30 Amazon boxes? - No, your business. - Agreed to business. Agreed to disagree. The internet judges women more harshly than men. - Agreed. - Three, two, one. - Agreed. Babe, you're supposed to spend this. - Yeah. - Okay, all right, say it again. Say it again. Three, two, one. - Agreed. - Agreed-ish. See what? It's agree-ish. - What would you say about that? What should you say? Like explain your side. - The bar is on the floor for men. And for women somehow, we're never good enough. They keep moving the goalpost for women. Like you're a homemaker and you should be out getting a job and we didn't fight for women's rights for you to be at home. And then you get a job and then you have to keep up with the house. And then if you hire help, then you're not as good of a mom. And if you have a nanny, you're not as good as a mom. And if you have four baby dads, you're not as good as a mom. And men can do it. Men can do everything. - I like it. - I plead the fifth on that. (laughing) I plead the fifth. - Breed is agreed. You can be friends with your ex. - The reed to what? - Disagree. - Disagree. - You can't be friends with your ex. - You can be friendly. - Friendly. - I have kids with mine. - Yeah. - With almost out of six X's, I have kids with four of them. - You can be cordial. I don't even like to term friendly. You can be cordial. - Yeah, like up friendly. - Hello. Here you go. Gotta go. - Okay. - Fair. - Like if it's in passing, might, hello. - Would you say hi to your ex in front of me? - I wouldn't say hi at all. - Oh, okay. - Whether I'm-- - Then that's all that matters. - With you by myself, no, I just keep a pushing. Go about my business. - Does it change when it is a baby daddy? - Yes. I do think it's important, it, when, where possible, you should be nice to your kid's other parent. - Okay. - So if it's an X like that, I do think you should be respectful. - Are you careful with how you talk about your X's in front of your kids? - Yeah, I try really hard not to. I mean, I'm not saying that they never hear anything, but I really try not to. - To not like say negative things about-- - Yeah, okay. - Like if I'm gonna say something negative, I can say to him, my kids don't have to hear it and vice versa. So like, when my ex has been called me earlier today, it was, can we schedule this call when Lincoln's not around? - Ah, I do. - So just-- - She does a good job just keeping her true feelings and emotions away from the kids. So if she has anything to say, more or less, it comes towards. - But also, like I'll say hi to them in front of my kids, right, like if I'm at an event, we went to my son's moving up ceremony and I waved to his dad's family just to say hi, you know. - Guys, that's sweet. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Well, you guys, I feel like we've put you through the ringer today. We've talked about so much. Thank you for being open and honest. - So open. - Yeah. - I feel like there's no question that I couldn't run by where you'd be like, I'm so offended. Like you are just-- - Thank you for having me, thank you for having us. - I'm a little special guest. Thank you guys. I don't appreciate it. - You know how I love that you're just like, I'm long for this ride. - Yeah, I mean, it's like I was on her podcast prior and for me, like now I feel I'm comfortable. So it doesn't matter if it's just her and I or-- - Yeah. - You know, so thank you. - Thank you. - I do appreciate it. Thank you guys. - Thank you guys. Check out Kale Lowry on Instagram, on check out a barely famous podcast, wherever you get your podcasts, any other shout outs that we should ask in. - That's four days, join Book Club if you're not in Abbey's and you know, don't want to take any of your book club members, but if you're not in Abbey's. - Oh, join your book club. - Yeah, that's all. - Yeah. - Thank you. - Well, thank you again for listening to another episode of Unplanned and we'll see you next time. - Thank you.