Get a Hobby, Be Happy with Jessica Williams

I'm doing a rom-com right now that I think you'll be really excited about. It's like me and a shorter, a guy who's shorter than me. I love that. And I'm really excited. And I was like trying to tell him, I was like, look at Tom and Zendaya. And he's like, no, I'm not going to Google that. But I know for me, it's my inspo is Tom and Zendaya. And I love looking at them walking around in London with their little dog. And he's a little short king and she's a tall queen. And it just looks so right. It just looks so right. And it's like, why, Hollywood? Why? It looks good. We can do this. We can do this. This episode of IMO is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Howdy. Craig Robinson. This is very comfortable. It looks like a pajama top. Well, that's what it's supposed to. It's fashion, as I say. Really? There's the look. It's the pajama look. No wonder kids are wearing pajamas to school. Who's giggling about pajamas? It's like. What? Crystal, what are you talking? And it's supposed to look like a pajama top. I'm just making an observation. It's just you not knowing things about the world and fashion. I didn't know that you could wear a pajama top. Because I like my pajamas. I'm going to be wearing mine now. It's not a pajama's top. It just looks like. It mimics a pajama. It mimics sort of the comfortable boho-y look. But if it actually looks like a pajama top, why couldn't you wear a pajama top? You could. And some people do actually wear the pajama top. Right. As far as I know. Right. As far as fashion. This just happens to be a blouse that is fashioned after pajamas. Okay. And there's also. Now, I don't know whether this had bottoms. But a look would be this exact same bottom matching the bottoms. Have you seen people walking around the airport like that? It's probably not their pajamas. I have learned something. It could be a very high-end, expensive pantsuit. Yeah. Yeah. Because you wouldn't want to wear it to bed after you wore it around the airport. I just like this look. Because it's my look. Well, it's working for you. Let's get Jessica out here. She's my friend. I just met her. She's my friend. She's going to be nicer to you than I am. Yeah, she's going to be nicer to me. Her mom likes me. Oh, my God. Her mom likes me, though. Yeah, you don't know. She better be nice to me. I'm going to tell her mom. That's true. She would get it. Oh, my God. Oh, my goodness. Let's do our official introduction. Okay, so we have today Jessica Williams, a two-time Emmy and Critics' Choice-nominated comedian, writer, and performer, who currently stars as Gabby in Apple TV's hit comedy series, Shrinking, which I happen to have seen. In 2016, she co-launched a podcast, Too Dope, Queens, which became an HBO series in 2018 with a four-hour-long special. And if I remember correctly, you were on that. Yes. You were on that. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just finish the introduction. So anyway, I did a podcast in 2016. Come on out, Jessica. Come on. Wait, where do I go? Where do I go? Welcome. Welcome, fellow tall persons. And then I was on The Daily Show. I was on The Daily Show. Yes. I was the youngest ever correspondent on that show for now. Yeah, I know. It's fine. It just takes him so long to read. Hey, you. What's going on? I'm excited. Remember we joked about this carpet on carpet. Yes, carpet on carpet. Big chairs. Get it in there. Get it in there. But once you get set, it's comfortable. Oh, it's set. You're not going anywhere. It's super comfortable. I feel like I can just. Welcome. Thank you. Wait, you said you've actually seen our show. Do you not watch a lot of TV? No, I don't. He doesn't. No, it's hard for me to watch TV because I have four children. Two are grown. Two are 16 and 14. So, and I'm coaching their teams and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm lifing. Understood. So I, it's, I got, if, if I'm watching your show, you know, it must be good. Absolutely. Understood. Because you try not to be on the couch. No, because I would be sound asleep. Totally. I get it. Watch all the stuff. She's like, you don't watch enough popular culture stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, I'll be. I'll be watching the inside of my eyelids. I know. That's right. That's like the most dad, old man thing. Midwest. Watching the inside of my eyelids. Because he is. He's a dad, old man. I know. I know. I feel like it's very on brand for you. I know. I know. Getting the quarters in. I know. With his fashion stuff. Here's my take on what I just watched with you two. Okay. I was watching. I was like, wow, what an intro. Both of y'all look, look dope. Everything's working, you know, for the both. Thank you. Thank you. So you, you know, I mean, he, of course, he harped on the fact that your mother told you to say hi and king. Yes, right. And she said, my mom said, obviously, I didn't tell her until the last minute. She was at my house just now. She was like, where are you going? I said, oh, I'm about to do IMO. And she went, ah! She like walked across the living room to give me a hug and all this stuff. And then she was like, well, obviously, please tell Michelle I love her example. She said, I love her success. And I wish her all, I'm sending her all the love. And then don't forget Craig. She said, please don't forget Craig. Tell him I love him and all this stuff. And, you know, she said, it's going to be easy. They're Midwest people. My mom, my family's from Ohio. So they're like. There is a difference. We were just in Ohio. We were in Yellow Springs, Ohio, near Springfield. And just, you know, salt of the earth kind of thing. Friendly. Yeah. Hey, how you doing? It's just great. Hey, how you doing is very nice. That doesn't happen. That doesn't happen as much as you think it would. Yeah. Especially in LA. Totally. Hey, how you doing? Yeah. All right. First loaded question. Obviously, you're a pro at this. We're just starting out here. How we doing? Great. This is like lovely. There's like some lovely people here. You guys can see there's a timer. We've got this gorgeous color. It's in between a pink and an orange. It's coral. It's coral. It is coral. And there's coral. I mean, I love it. This is really nice. And you guys have a great banter. Yeah. It's been built up over the years. Over many, many years. Yeah. And everybody I talk to that's done this podcast, loves doing it, which is a good sign. And I wouldn't say that if it wasn't true. I would be like, I would just not say anything. You set a very good example. One of my first podcasts. No way. Was it? I wasn't, you know, when we weren't into the podcast thing. Podcasting wasn't a thing when we were in the White House. I mean, we sort of kept to trend when it came to communications, you know. But I don't remember ever going on a podcast when I was first lady. Oh, we were totally honored. Like, it was insane. It was really cool. Following you guys. And you guys came to my office. Yes, we did. Which was so cool. Yeah. You know, and incredibly impressed by the two of you. What made you want to do a podcast? Oh, God, these people in this room. They were like, you know what would be great for Higher Ground Audio? It's like if you did a podcast. Totally. And then I was like, I don't know. And they were like, what if Craig did it with you? And then I was like, oh, all right. So it's really a combination. It's a combination of them and him. Well, I have a craft room now in my house where I just do like crafting. You are a crafter. I am. Yeah. And sewing. And yeah, it's like how I stay sane. But I have you guys saved and I just listen to you guys while I'm like sewing and crafting. Because you have to. Like, I was, as you probably know, I got into my knitting phase. I didn't know that. It's like, well, during COVID. Yeah, cool. So it's one of these things. It's like, okay, we're going to be trapped in the house. I mean, you know, we had. The former president who believed in science. So we knew what was coming. You know, we would always be like, yeah, what do we have to do? They were like, stop washing the vegetables. That doesn't, you know. That's right. So it, you know, he would talk to Fauci and really find out. Crazy to listen to people who spent their whole lives studying something. Exactly. Exactly. So we were, you know, we understood what we needed to do. We knew that we would need to hunker down. So I just started ordering crafts and stuff like that, like paintbrushes. And I saw like knitting needles. Okay, let's get, you know, I used to crochet when I was little. So I got knitting needles and started learning the stitches. And before you know it, I made, then I made everything. I mean, I made scarves and then I made pillows. I made pillows. Then I made it an assignment. Then I was like, everybody's getting knitted gifts for Christmas. So I made pillows and then I made a sweater. Then I started making hats and I made mittens. I made mittens before. So there's a long way of saying, you can't do anything when you're crafting except listen. That's right. You know. That's right. You got to lock in. Yeah. Well, that's what I like about it. I'm always chasing flow state. No matter what that looks like. I want something. I'm trying to use my phone a lot less too. It's making me mad. I just look at it. I'm mad. What am I looking at? What did I do? And then it's like, what am I communicating on Instagram? Like, it's like, look at what you don't have. Like, I don't know. I don't want to do that. So I found that I'm happiest when I'm crafting, especially when I'm not working. So what are you making when you're crafting? I've been sewing. I've been sewing like a mad woman. I think I have a, I left it in the car. I had a, I made a heart-shaped purse that I like sewed. Oh, what material did you use? I used a quilting, quilting cotton, but it's like a ditzy fabric. So kind of like grandma, like you would get it at like a countryside inn. It's puffy. I padded it because I wanted to put my laptop in. it and it's a It's a big red heart. I quilted it and then it has ruffles on it. Oh, wow. Another thing, I made her a pair of shorts. They're like two different legs. Well, the other thing is because I'm tall. That's the best thing. Like, because we're tall, I think sizes are just a suggestion. But they do better now. Totally. Totally. Very inclusive. I can actually buy things offline. Me too. Yeah. But there's also like a really good, like, there's like a unisex runoff because of like drag culture and stuff that I've benefited from. And like pushing the limits of sexuality and gender, I can find bigger shoes. Like shoes now will go to like 11. What size do you wear if you're 11? I'm 11. Yeah, I'm now, I'm 10 and a half. 10 and a half. 11, right? So I'll go 11, 11 and a half. And it's been a struggle, but now it's like really cool. Yeah. They're doing better. I know. But shorts with separate legs? Yeah. They're just two different fabrics. Oh, okay. But I can do whatever I want. You know, he's very styled. Oh, so shorts are like. I'm style ignorant. No, shorts are like when you have a hand. No, hang on a second, Jessica. What do you mean? No, you were saying that and then you were cut off before you could finish telling me about the way that it went a different direction. Shots fired. Shots fired. I was interested in understanding what two different legs were. Okay. Well, I also made a quilt top. Okay. That's not fashion. That's just more of a home good. I mean, there's nothing more satisfying than like, I did this. Totally. And I can put it on. I can put it on and carry it out into the world. And you know, you have a million gifts. Now you have a million gift ideas. And it matters more than like, to me, than like this really, really nice purse. It's also very sustainable. It's like making stuff out of things you have. Did you, were you crafty as a kid or did you? No, I was more performing arts. I was doing like, I went to, I grew up here in LA more and it's called the South Bay. So it's more like the beach cities, like Torrance, Redondo, that area, Harbor City. And I knew I wanted to do performing arts when I was a kid. And here it's a lot easier to do performing arts. I went to public school. So I did, I would do drama festivals, Shakespeare festivals, school musicals. And then we had a high school improv team when I was in high school. And I tried out for my high school improv team. And I got on there and that sort of started my, my comedy tract and like my love for, for comedy. Were you always this person that we see before you? I mean, you're so, you're quick, you're confident, you're on top of it. No. No, I don't think so. I mean, a lot comes with being black, being a girl, being tall. And I was always tall. And you know, you know, I was just talking to you about that. I love talking about being tall with people that are tall. I don't like talking about being tall with people that aren't tall. They don't get it. I feel very safe here right now. You are very safe. We know. Very safe. Very safe. We know. We know. Would you consider yourself shy? Were you ever shy? Yeah. Yeah. Really? Totally. I'm like on right now because I'm working. But when I'm home, like imagine I get in my car. I'm like, thank you, Craig and Michelle. Thank you. And I just go like that. And I power down. I just go. And then my driver, Juan, is going to be like, are you okay? And I go, take me home. It's like, I'm done. I'm done. I'm just done. I'm off. How old were you when you realized you wanted to be an actor? Ooh, really young. I got a really nice, sweet spot of TV. It was before Nicole. Nickelodeon and Disney became 24-hour networks. There was like a time where, as a millennial, I'm 36. So we got to see like all that. There was like sketch comedy, Kenan and Kel. There was a lot of really funny stuff that was made for kids. But then at about 8, 830, they would start showing like Happy Days, Escape to Ridgemountain, Lassie. So you still got like older stuff. Like it wasn't, they would have something called Vault Disney. So it wasn't like you just watched stuff for kids. You watched everything. I remember Fresh Prince. Fresh Prince really meant a lot to me as a kid. Men in Black, like Will Smith really meant a lot to me. Just talking about Queen Latifah really meant a lot to me. Whoopi Goldberg. Just like these women, these like Black women who could play in rom-coms and can really, they can do it all. And then I got Saturday Night Live and MADtv, which I, my grandma lived in the Valley. And when she'd watch me, she would let me stay up late and she would drink a Colt 45. And she was from Ohio. So lived really hard. And I would get her diabetes medication. But also I would go get her. I would get her beer, you know. It's like, here we go. Totally. I got my girl stacked up. That's my girl. Like a frigging seven-year-old, as you said. But I really like, I just thought she was like the most beautiful person ever. This like lady who watched TV all day. But I just, she just had the best sense. She would watch South Park. She would watch Adult Swim. She was just really bawdy. She would watch Carol Burnett. Like she just, we'd watch the nanny. Oh, we had Carol on. Oh, of course. I got all that stuff from her. We got so teared up with her. I mean, Carol Burnett. Carol Burnett meant so much to our family and our sense of humor. And she is as lovely in person. I love to meet her. I adored her on Palm Royale, too. I thought that was such a blessing to be able to like watch it. Yeah, it was amazing. I really love that show. But again, I got, so I got to see all these things. But I didn't know that that was, I was getting an education in all sorts of TV and culture with her. Which was really nice. Did you grow up, did you have brothers and sisters? Yeah. I have an older sister and I have a younger brother, but we're all really different. My brother's more, he played football, come from a football family. And then my older sister likes business. She likes like local politics and stuff like that. So my sister, I think she works for the teachers unions right now. So she reps, she reps teachers in the university system. So we all were in different lanes. She would run for student body and all that stuff. And I got to do drama club, Shakespeare club. Were you guys, did you guys go to school? Did you guys go to school together? We did. We went to school together. My brother went to a football school, but there's something really nice about not overlapping. We all had just different interests. And so I got to be like the middle child. What's your, your, your birth order? How many siblings do you have? Because I think birth order is the new, I think it's the new astrology. I agree. I see it in our, our kids. We see it. He has four. I have two. I have Millie and Sasha. And it's very much their personalities and the choices they make because the younger child, you're trying to do something. You're trying to define yourself against the older. So there was a lot of things. Oh, I'm not doing that. Or I'm doing that because you're not doing that. And you know, you're a younger kid. So how much of it was your choice and how much of it were you battling against somebody else? It's like your first friend, like your sibling is like your, I feel very lucky to have mine. Like mine's make me laugh all the time. I'm like, I just, sometimes I'll be like, especially with my brother. I'm like, you're my best friend is what I'm thinking. And then I'll see him and my sister and I'll go. Look at the both of them. So beautiful. So handsome. I'm so happy to know you. I feel like that's like my thirties is being like, look at this family go. I like all of us. That's nice. Like, I feel very, very blessed to have them. Did your sister try and protect you when she was younger? But she was annoyed because me and my brother were like, we're not listening to you. Like what? And then my sister is more, she's like the person that I would imagine is the closest to Beyonce who doesn't try to be Beyonce. Oh, yeah. She's really gorgeous. She's gorgeous and glamorous and works really hard and just all the really, really lovely things that you would love in a beautiful black woman. And then I feel more like I'm just, you know, my braids are grown out. My braids are grown. My underwear is starting to get too tight. It's kind of, I got to order some new underwear, but I don't feel like it. I don't feel like, just kind of barely hanging on, you know, like, oh, I got to go do this podcast. Should I shave my legs? Probably not. But I'm like lucky to, I, like a bunch of people put this together and rolled me over here. It's like get in the car. Your face is beat. Yes. Yeah. Oh my God. Do you do your, do you do your own makeup? Never. No, I do like makeup a lot actually. And I love it, but I have this, I have two women that I love that does my makeup and the one who does this makeup is, I'm very lucky. She's very silly, very goofy. She's like very silly. It was like, do you ever have that surprise where you're like, oh my gosh, this person is so silly. Just what you need to have somebody in your face. You have to like them and feel their energy. It feels like I'm hanging out with my friend. Then the person who does my hair too, I feel they're, they're like two booths. They become, when you are in the public eye, your team becomes your family because you're with them more than you're with, you know, your own family sometimes. Do you like getting your hair and makeup done? You know, I, I like the people in the same way. I enjoy that more, but I'm like you, I, when I'm down, I'm down. I mean, you know, I, I structure my life around. Hair and makeup. It's like, let's get it all in. You know, it's like having an update. Stack them up. Stack them up. Because I don't want to have to do this and don't touch me. Don't touch me. That's right. Don't touch me. That's right. I feel like it's having a good diet. You get it. You get it. You do. I have no idea what you all are talking about. It's true though. So much of what we do, especially because, oh my God, people are so mean. It was so mean online. People are so mean. They are. I spend most of my day. That's why you can't look. No, I can't. I can't. I can't. Most of my life, I feel like, is leaving my house and trying not to get my feelings hurt. Really? Yes. Like at the store. Or some people just be like, oh my God, you're so much prettier than I thought. Like just even things like that. Like that, yeah. Where you're like, wow. And I'm just here. I'm just here at Albertsons. Yeah. You get that. Totally. It's like, oh, you're really pretty in person. Oh my God. What picture were they looking at? What are you looking at? Like what happened? What did I do? See, you needed an older brother. See, he would have calloused you from all of that. - I mean, I know peasants, but still, like Phil. It didn't work? No. Still, like, I'm so sensitive. And as I get older, I'm like, that's just how I am. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully. Mish, what is one of the biggest swings or leaps of faith you've taken professionally or otherwise? For me, you remember, it was when I left investment banking to go into assistant coaching. That was a big swing for me. I remember calling you and you helping me to be okay with that decision. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I've had a lot of big swings. I mean, you know, me leaving my job at the law firm where I was making a ton of money in corporate law and deciding to go and work in government and public service where it cut my. salary in half. And I remember how guilty I felt for going to mom and dad and even expressing an interest to do something that I cared about rather than something that would make the absolute most money. I mean, at the time I was making, my salary was more than both mom and dad's salary combined. How do you think your age at the time shaped that decision? Do big decisions feel more or less daunting at different stages of life? Oh, my God. That felt like the biggest. decision that I would make. I mean, I had invested so much in getting my law degree. And then to walk away from it, it was scary. But we've talked about it. You know, once you make that first scary leap, you know, that first hard decision, and you realize that you land pretty solidly on the other side of that leap, you get comfortable with taking those risks. And I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. So, yes, age definitely makes the difference. Because now, you know, I'm more confident in my ability that when I take a big swing, that I'm pretty. I have the tools to land wherever I need to land. You know, it feels easier to make big decisions when you're young because if they don't work out, you don't have a lot of people to. You don't have a lot to lose. It's harder when you're older because now the stakes are higher. That's true. And more people are relying on these. These decisions to be the right one. All of our listeners have faced big decisions and their fair share of uncertainty. I remember the first time I ever bought a house. One of the biggest leaps you ever take. I was really intimidated by the whole process. But when the time came, all I could do was trust my gut and have faith that it was the right decision. Progressive understands the hurdles first-time homebuyers are facing, including. including housing affordability challenges and a lack of straightforward education that could make the home-buying process feel less intimidating. Progressive's Open the House initiative is committed to breaking down these barriers and making first times a little easier. Since 2024, Progressive has committed more than $16 million towards making the dream of homeownership more achievable. This includes a $3.5 million. $3.5 million investment this year towards the UP Payment, Progressive's down payment assistant program aimed at first-time homebuyers. Learn more about the UP Payment program and Progressive's commitment to first-time homebuyers at progressive.com slash openthehouse, where homebuyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey. ♪♪ Did you feel pretty? I mean, this is another tall girl thing, right? You know, it's like when you're a tall girl, you know, it's like you don't start feeling pretty until you're an adult and you can, you really realize that. It's like, oh, I really like this height. Totally. And a lot of. Go ahead, sorry. Part of the problem is you don't meet tall guys until later because it takes us so long to catch up. Yeah. Height-wise. I mean, the big part of it, the overarching is media standards and our diet. Our media diet actually is so counter to physically what we look like. Right. It's the opposite, actually. And if nobody's talking to you about it, I feel like now we have that conversation about what are we looking at on TV? Who's desirable on TV? Who, you know, who is considered petite or feminine, which is what's valued in a heteronormative society. Like, our media diet is what is the, the overarching thing, you know, when they do the doll test and, you know, those studies. But, but, you know, it, that's the big thing. And so I think if you're a person of color, you are, we are downloading that our entire lives and taking away whatever it is, especially since it's nothing you ever really say out loud. Yep. But for me, it was like. Because you know better. You know better than to say it. It's not like we were taught that. I mean, I know my parents and my brother, they thought I was beautiful. Totally. You know, so it wasn't, you know, so. Yes. It's when you're at school. Why are you doing that? I don't know, but I'm doing it. He's doing it. I'm doing it, but I only did it to be like, yeah. You know, this is like, his sense of humor is sort of like, what are you, what are you doing? But he's closest to me. So in improv, I had to yes and him, you know? So I guess, but like. Great job. I don't know. I'm a term coat. I am a term coat. But totally, like, I, I. So no, I didn't because I'm very, I'm a feeler. I'm very sensitive. Like, there's no, you know. And then, you know, when you're on TV, and you're, you do events, they, like, pay people to make sure you look good. Yeah. So it's like, a lot. It's like the, you know, who you are when you're at home, brawless, you know, watching Real Housewives of Rhode Island. Can you imagine? They did Rhode Island. No, they did. Did you see it? Yes, of course. I just watched it last night. I used my time. It's crazy. I know you don't know what it is. No. And so I don't want to get into it. No, go ahead. What did you think? I'm enjoying it thoroughly. He's supposed to be watching one. Here's what happened. So we're going to pick one. Go ahead. I said, why don't I watch Rhode Island? Because it's the new one. Everybody's here. And you know what she said? Don't watch that. No, don't watch it. It's not going to be any good. Now she's watching it. I told him. I missed it. Well, I watched them all. Yeah, me too. So that's not a measure, you know. What's your recommendation for him, though? I think Potomac. I think Potomac. Yeah, I see. I think Potomac. Potomac? Potomac is the one where, like, I actually am laughing with them because they are very funny. Yeah, yeah. I think Potomac start two seasons ago. Yeah. Yeah, I guess you don't have to start from the beginning. You don't have to. You can just jump right in. No, I want him to have Stacey. Like, I want him to see that whole evolution. So I have to watch it from the beginning? No, no, no, no, no. Two seasons. We have a limited time. We know we have a limited runway. So we're saying start from, like, two seasons ago. How many episodes is that? A lot. Yeah, a lot. Because it's more than, like, eight episodes, isn't it? You can do it. Do it for the team. Yeah, definitely. You know, you're a professional now. You're a professional. I mean, this is the other thing. You can't be in podcasting and not know pop culture. You can't. Like, you can't. Here we go. You know, I might have to replace him. No, I'm just kidding. Here we go. Here we go. Are you free, Jessica? Yeah. With you? Yeah, I live right over here. Definitely. What about 90 Day? Do you watch 90 Day, fiance? You know, I watch glimpses of 90 Day, but that, I have a hard time. There's a lot of that. I can't recommend it in good conscience. It's either you do watch it or you don't. I can't. I have watched it. I've watched it. Yeah. But I, it's like, I can watch anything. I have trouble watching that. That's how bad it is. It's not good for your soul. It is not. TLC is, you have Bravo and you know, you're like, okay, Andy's behind the strings and you're like, this is a, there's a standard. TLC, you're like, this is, this is, what am I watching? What do you think of Rhode Island so far? I love it. I, it's got everything. There's a lot of drama that's happened. So much drama. I mean, they're all so, they're all so messy. Totally. I also wasn't expecting the accents. Like, I realized I didn't know anything about Rhode Island. I know. I realized I didn't, I was just thinking that the other day. I didn't know what to expect from Rhode Island. Yeah, there's a really strong, like, he's over here. You're like, I didn't know this is what I'm going to get, but I want it. See, that's why I was going to watch it. It's very New Jersey adjacent. We used to live in Rhode Island. Really? So I thought I'd be able to connect to that one. Still don't. It's not the one. I won't. Well, we don't know. It's still too new. Okay. It's still too new. You got to get it in. It's fine. I'll get it. It's fine. Well, I, now I'm wondering, tell me about your parents, you know? They, they raged you. Yeah. Creative, interesting people. What were they like? My mom liked football players and bouncing, who become bouncers. And that's why I'm tall. I'm just trying to tell you why I'm tall, as my mom has a type. And especially as I get older, I'm like, that's really cute. Like, my mom's always like, my mom's always like, how's W. Kamau Bell? Have you spoken? to him in a while. And I'm like, oh, brother, like she loves like a tall, a tall black man. And so, yeah, I think she met my stepdad. We have a really blended family. She met my stepdad at the Ohio State University. And my real dad, I think she met at the Ohio State University because they're Ohio people. Then she moved to L.A., lived in like Highland Park for a while. There was like some some clubs like the Golden Tail that like black people used to go to and like Deaf Comedy Jam. My dad, my stepdad is like a bodyguard and bouncer on the circuit, police officer. all those things. And then they reconnected here. And then they got married. And they came, my dad came with my two siblings, my older sister and my younger brother. And they raised us together in the South Bay, which is about 20 miles south of here, which is a really nice place to grow up. You're like in LA, but you're not. So you can have a really, really nice normal life. And I don't know, they were always very encouraging because my dad did a lot of entertainment. And they're always really encouraging of the arts. And so they all kind of let us be ourselves. They were tough on me. Like I went to like a gifted and talented program, tested into that, went to a magnet school, had to transfer schools to go to a predominantly like kind of white and Korean and Japanese program. And then- Was your neighborhood diverse? Yeah, my neighborhood was, but I had to go a little farther more to like Palos Verdes, San Pedro area. To go to school because I read a lot. And then I went to high school and they had a really great performing arts program, super underfunded, LAUSD, but a really great performing arts program. So I did a lot of that, did improv, and then did Upright Citizens Brigade when I got in college. And then I went to Cal State Long Beach. What did you do? Oh, you went to Cal State. I went to Cal State Long Beach. And then I did Upright Citizens Brigade and something called Comedy Sports. And then I got The Daily Show while I was doing that. How old were you? 22. I was 22 when I got that. I know. Now that I'm 36, I'm like, wow, baby baller. Totally. You said baby baller? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was a baby baller. It was one of those things where they didn't know how I got hired. I was auditioning for Alison Jones for this Will Ferrell movie. And she was like, you might be too young, but they're casting The Daily Show. Can you come back in and do these two sides? And it was like a standup where you have a green screen background. And then there was a thing at the desk where you're like talking. And I was like, sure. And then I did that. And they sent the tape in. And then maybe two days later, I was at the Panda Express on my campus. There was like a Panda Express there in between classes. And they were like, Jon Stewart saw your tape. He wants to fly you out to audition with him in New York. What do you do when you get that call? I screamed. I think I had an undercut, like Rihanna's undercut. I think I had green hair. I remember my best friend and I screamed. And my mom took me to TJ Maxx. And we got, like, a Jones, New York suit. And I just remember flying out. It was so cold because it was in Hell's Kitchen. The wind whips around. I felt like I was in, like, a Broadway musical where I'm on the streets of New York and I'm scared and I'm 20. And I'm going to make it in showbiz anywhere. And I just remember auditioning with him, him just being so nice and just being like, you know, I'll talk to you soon. And he auditioned me by being, like, hey, I'm Jon Stewart. Like, it's so nice to meet you. I already saw your tape. You're so funny. All you have to do is, like, be present with me. And that really released me. And I do really well with mentors like that who are very nice because I'm so sensitive. I don't do well with mean mentors, which I think that can work for people. Another reason why sports were hard for me because I need somebody to really be nice to me. He's a mean coach. Yeah. I mean, it works. We're not all a monolith. Like, you know, some people need to be tough. Some people need their asses whooped, too. Like, some people need it, you know? But he was very sweet. It's like, I could tell, some people you can tell are girl dads. Like, there's something about working with a girl dad who's a good girl dad where you're like, that's good. They made you better. Like, you've learned a lot having girls. And I like the way you deal with women in your life. So anyway, I got that job pretty quickly. I say that a lot because it was the kind of audition where he wasn't making it seem like I had to prove myself. And at 22, black girl, I needed that, especially coming up in comedy because there's like, especially at that time, a lot of mean white guys in comedy, actually, and who are like, you're not funny. You have to prove yourself to be funny, like all that stuff. And I had had a lot of that up until that point. So was that your, how did you know what to do on The Daily Show? I mean, it's like. It's a machine. Like, it's been, it had been going for a really long time. And as a correspondent, your day is watching the news all day. You're looking for stories. People are pitching stories. And then there's like a field producer segment. And those are like, they're kind of bro-y, at least when I was there. It's like the guys that you go to Utah with and you interview somebody who's going to say like, we should eat babies. And you're like, tell me more. And you have those packages. And then you have the stuff that you do with John. And then a lot of those people went to Ivy Leagues. And it's like two kind of separate things. And then you kind of but there's like a schedule. But when you're 22, you know, it was like, I didn't finish college, but it felt like grad school. You learn to kill your darlings. Just because it's funny doesn't mean it's going to make it. You learn how to work for one person. You know, you're, we're editing these field pieces and depends on how John's feeling that day. But it's like watching his reaction. But that's important to work for someone. It's important to be like, oh, he didn't like this as much. And just because you think it should be some way at the end of the day. And then also he, we had been in a room full of people. And I would be sort of like, oh, like, I have something to say about Kony 2012. And he'd be like, yes, Jessica, like, what do you think, you know, in this whole room full of people. So he was a really good boss for me for that. And I learned a lot about who I was. And it's also a really nice way to move to New York. It's like on somebody else's dime with a job. Where'd you live? I lived in Hell's Kitchen first. And then Wyatt Snack was like, Mr. Brooklyn. And he was like, I'm going to show you something about Brooklyn. This is Brooklyn. So then I lived in Williamsburg, Clinton Hill, Prospect Heights, all over. How long were you there? About 10 years. And then I, COVID happened. So you grew up? My parents. Yeah, totally. My 20s. I spent my 20s there. And it was great. Like I, this is LA is like my heart and my soul. But New York really affected me profoundly. What was the hardest part about working on The Daily Show? I think doing field pieces. Like I think traveling, and you're going to a rally. It's very scary. You know, doing that is, it takes guts. Interviewing someone, you know, in the middle of Florida, you know, is really scary. And you're going to, you know, you're going to have to do bits and get it out. You know, you don't know if they're going to freak out or something. And I remember having quite a bit of anxiety. And sometimes I would text the other correspondents, like, here I go. You know, I hope I get what I need. But yeah, especially now, it's like what they're doing, like Jordan and Desi and Ronnie. And Josh, it's like really cool that they're doing that. But for me, it gave, it gave me a lot of anxiety, especially coming up more introverted. Yeah. Just have to, you know, that's the life we chose. That's the job. Wow. Were you, were you glad to be doing it? Did you feel like you were in your, in your, your sweet spot? Absolutely. It was really nice to have you guys in the White House. Yeah, it was nice. It was like, it's harder now. I think it was just so much. Yeah. There's so much. And it's really, really, really like a trigger point now. But yes, it was great. It was, it was funny. The Daily Show is something where you wouldn't know, you don't know who's watching it and you would get really cool people that watch the show, which is really nice. But yeah, I learned so much, but it's hard because with that and podcasting, it was like, I always knew I was an actor. So I had to do like a hard pivot and be like, oh, well, I started this as an actor. I just so happened to, to do improv and really like comedy. Yeah. That's got to take a lot of courage, because you got this regular job and you're doing well. And then, but you know, you were destined for something else. So how did you, how and when did you decide, okay, this is enough. I gotta, I gotta follow my passion. Totally. I mean, it was really hard. People were like, oh, like, we want you to run The Daily Show. They're like, oh, we want you to host The Daily Show. And I'm thinking, I don't want to. I love them. I love it. It's a hard job. You do it every night. I like, tell Michelle we want her to be president. I was like, she doesn't want to be freaking president. Like, what are you talking about? Those people don't know what the job, they don't know what the job is. I know, but you do. You do. If you wanted to, you would do it. What are you talking about? You know? And so it was, I remember one day I was told to do, it was just like, you host. And I was like, I don't want to do that. You know how much work that is? You don't want to see your family. I'm, I'm looking at the news like this all day. Then I have to put on a suit. I'm going to wear a suit, but you do look better in a suit when you're hosting it. You have to wear a suit. You know, I don't want to do that shit. You can't wear your pajamas. No girl. I want to listen. I want to sew a tote bag. Okay. That's who I am. And you have to know that I know better than you because I watch people do the job and I know what it takes to do the job. I know better than you, you know? So it's like, tell Michelle. And it's like, don't you want her to run for president? No, I don't. No. Why? She did it. We're good. Let her freaking do her, whatever, you know, but let her knit, um, and deal with y'all asses. Um, but yeah, so it, you know, it is hard to leave something that was like my womb, but I never thought like, since John went back and since I gotten to do shrinking that I get to go back. And so I've done a couple of bits going back home and it feels really good. It's like getting a taste, being able to dabble and it is very different. They're, they're the best over there. They're like, if you want to do something, let us know. It's like, great. But I never, I never thought I'd be able to, to work with John again in that capacity. And I feel very lucky. this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance a company committed to helping people move forward and live fully so buying your first home can feel like this huge exciting milestone and it is but it can also feel confusing and deeply overwhelming that's one of the reasons i appreciate all the work progressive is doing to help first-time homebuyers the up payment program is part of progressives open the house initiative a multi-year commitment to giving people the tools and knowledge they need to make home ownership a reality and this year progressive is expanding their up payment program offering down payment assistance of up to thirteen thousand five hundred dollars each to at least 200 eligible first-time homebuyers you that kind of help can make a real difference when you're trying to get your foot in the door progressive understands the challenges many first-time homebuyers are up against with education tools and financial resources they're here to help you stop waiting on the sidelines and start moving toward home ownership one confident step at a time want to learn more about the up payment program and progressives commitment to first-time homebuyers visit progressive.com slash open the house where homebuyers can discover more about housing challenges and access resources and support to empower them in their housing journey back to tall people always in acting okay no offense to the all of hollywood they're so small i know they're such small people totally and i always miss i don't see anyone because i'm looking for that's x and i'm looking up and they're down and i miss them they walk right past my waist they're like you didn't know that was tom cruise you're like i would know i thought tom cruise was my height totally you know totally i'm doing a rom-com right now that i think you'll be really excited about it's like me and a shorter a guy who's shorter than me i love and i'm really excited and i was like trying to tell him i was like look at tom and zendaya and he's like no i'm not gonna google that but i know for me it's my inspo is tom and zendaya and i love it but i just want i love looking at them walking around in london with their little dog and he's a little short king and she's a tall queen and it just looks so right it just looks so right and it's like why hollywood why it looks we can do this we can do this so i'm trying to take it i'm trying to take it back because it's ridiculous there's a weird like doll baby doll barbie and ken thing that's like if you're tall you can't be with somebody short but it looks really good under the arm of the guy totally you know and sometimes i still watch that i still watch yeah women who are underneath somebody's arm and i'm like i don't even know what that feels like no zendaya takes thomas she just grabs him he's right on her middle and he's grabbing it they're both grabbing each other like i love paparazzi photos thank you guys so much if you're watching it really means a lot to me in the tall woman community but i really hope to take back the rom-com and i think that sounds amazing really lovely on the tall woman side that you know the fact that women's athletics has really developed and we were seeing all types of bodies and images and it's i i feel so good about the next generation of girls coming up i don't know about you but when i meet a tall young girl yeah i stop i know me and i'm like girl me too you are this is exciting me too you know and i see you and stand tall you know do not worry about this you will grow into it it will be fabulous um but we didn't have those wrong you know there was i know when i see when i see tall young girls i stop too and i tell them they didn't make them like that when i was younger yeah especially like because when you think i'm sorry when you think about you two you all aren't that tall you're tall but you're not like i'm still i'm 5 10 yeah i'm 5 11 i'm 5 11 but then when you add the shoes and you have the hair and the thing you know it feels and also presence like i'm not gonna i think my presence feels tall so how is it uh getting cast when you're you know when everybody is 5 6 and it's hard yeah yeah it's really hard people i think there's a lot over and over like sometimes i look at movie trailers and i'm like i just saw all these people in a different movie and now it's like and now we're bringing you them in a different movie and you're like oh you know we have to we have to work to make people make it look different you know and then there's something about being like not mixed also which means you work less considerably you know every show there's like a lovely mixed young lady on the show and that benefits everyone because she can have a white parent and a black parent and it's again our media diet it's like what are we saying um and then being tall on top of that it's like really really hard to get cast you just have to you can't rest you have to prove yourself all the time but i feel lucky to be on shrinking because we shoot that like five or six months out of the year and she's by my house and it's just another opportunity for me to just show what i can what i know i can do just i do think if you keep chipping away at something yeah if you just keep yeah keep doing it you keep showing up then finally things will open for you oh thank you so much you really are i mean that's one of my favorite shows i mean i've had the opportunity to meet harrison and oh yeah my god he's so sweet one of the sweetest people in the world trying to get him on the show but yeah i'll corner him into that i'm gonna try i'm gonna try to guilt him it's like the former first lady really wants you on the show he's like okay well uh yeah like i don't know i don't even know how you would begin to do that i feel lucky yeah totally we were just with i was just with him the last two days and like he's just a maniac like where he's our especially on set he's like our son i mean it's jason's show but harrison is like the sun and we're the solar system around him we're like ready we're like is he here all right let's do it you know or he'll be like some days he'll be like i'm already acting i'm already acting and then the crew must be like you know uh but it just depends on how he's feeling but he's he's earned it i yeah he sometimes i'll just look at him and they've they've wiggled him into doing press you know and i'll be like he was at the cast party for like indiana jones he's at the cast party for what lies beneath like he was like he's at the cast party for witness you know this is how long he's been that's right acting you know he doesn't have to do any of it really and so i feel very lucky but you feel like you're you're holding your own i mean you're toe to toe with thank you i have no you know i have no choice why am i gonna let you do it i'm gonna let you do it i'm gonna let you do it i'm gonna let harrison ford to gobble me up on screen no yeah right no i'm competitive yeah i don't do sports but i like to think i'm athletic and i'm very competitive and one thing i'm gonna do yeah let's make the scene mine i always my have you seen any hall you guys seen any hall there's this lobster scene in any hall that's totally you can tell like an improvised spontaneous moment and um they're giggling and you're just like wow like diane diane is giggling this is everything i want in my career is is like an improvised moment i want every time i do something on camera for it to feel like it's happening for the first time and you know i want to i if harrison has an idea i want to yes and and be like i want to make my screen partner look good that's a big part of being a supporting character too is like i i'm gonna put my oxygen mask on and then i'm gonna help you how do we make this happen and how do we make this scene look alive so for gabby especially the character i play with such a heart-led person i'm always trying to be like okay now what feels how can we have a lobster moment what feels spontaneous um i wanted to feel like you you look at and you're like oh only jessica could do that that's kind of my goal i think yeah but yes casting is hard there's no there's no like you really have to get people to try and think of you but i can't force it so in the meantime when i'm off and not working i like to sew i have hobbies and i have a full life that's kind of the the goal like i act but i want a really full life yeah that's the thing yeah yeah well you and that affects your work i mean yeah you start seeing these actors who just they become other people and it changes the way um they show up it's really easy because when you're an actor you're on set people can get you anything you want you're like a baby basically everybody knows where you are um they're like do you need something i can get it for you and you become this weird baby person and it breeds a lot of mental illness it does and i get it like i really want my union to have more health services specifically for actors because you have your your you know it's so mean our business so mean the cat casting doesn't make sense sometimes you're fighting for these parts it's very small and uh you know there's you know there's the white guy on set there's number one on the call sheet you don't know if he's doing method you don't know what his thing is is he gonna make it easy for you is he gonna make it hard you might still have to kiss them like you know you don't it's its own thing and it is like a really really kind of baby job like there's so many important jobs but acting is like it is the most baby like look at me i'm feeling emotions like it's so embarrassing actually it's a really embarrassing job so when i see guys talking about the craft like it's like shut up shut your ass up you cry baby you just got paid to cry on camera it's cool it's a craft but it is you're not a surgeon you're not like you're not saving lives you're not saving lives you didn't fix the ozone layer you're not our job is elective jessica everybody can't do it like of somebody like me i i fascinated at consuming acting really you like you like the i like to watch i like to watch and sometimes even if it's not good i don't mind sort of watching people attempt to do things it's like a sport me too it's like i appreciate the fact that you've had to work me too all of this and get up there and then mess it up me too i i like a medium experience like i think online people were like this movie didn't blow up my balls off like and you're like you want your blows your balls blown off every time you watch something you can just have a perfectly medium time that's right and it's good like bring back a medium time i think it's kind of destroying art yeah or immediate like medium less like that's okay like it's fine i think it makes studios take less of a chance this is on art because everybody needs to have their life changed every time no we have to try and fail it is a goofy job where if you do it right you get an insane amount of money for a tiny amount of work and i'm calling that out because yeah a lot of actors walk around like they're you know changing the world and it's like i guess but this is art that we get it's a privilege yeah so yeah but i do love good acting my partner knows like if i see good acting he'll just turn to me like do you want to rewind that and i go yeah they're cooking like i'll rewind things when i see that means your partner knows good acting i think so i think he does just from like us being together and like like i want to see it like i want to see cooking and i i think there's nothing but that's what i like about reality shows like real housewives you want to watch steaks okay craig listen you want to talk to him these women are acting they that's right they're like you look at me weird like it's that is my point to my sister that it is not reality tv no it's not reality it's acting nobody said nobody's arguing i'm not saying this is so real and that's why and like oh my god it's just it's entertaining it's funny i think it's like when andy warhol came out with pop culture and people were like what is this this is a can of soup i think it's that i think really amazing things happen in reality tv and i think it's really important and it shows us something about ourselves as a society and it should be watched it should be studied it should be analyzed like reality tv is important you were breaking down characters behaviors things you've seen before i mean i think it's also look i tease him because what you said about acting i say all the time about sports you know i mean it's you know societally we have decided what type of entertainment is relevant or or good or worthwhile right and it's like reality tv is it's it's sociology it's empathy it's analyzing behavior i mean it's like the it's it's like the emmys of like girl let's break down that conversation which is very female totally you know totally but what gets what do we spend money on what gets the awards somebody throwing a ball it's like okay you're good at you you can jump high but that's what you that's all you do totally you've been trained yeah this is what you've done so you should be good at it and and you're tall totally you know or genetics right you you you fit the the bill you're a gymnast because you're four 11 you know i tried i tried that's another thing tall people can't do a backflip couldn't do it too much going around it's too much going around the mountain just can't yeah you got the gravity because you do the first part of the backflip you're like it's like that was a lot but you gotta bring the legs all of them yeah no so i do think it's very gendered i i make this argument only because so many people make the opposite argument when it's something they don't understand totally you know that that's the only reason i make the argument it's mainly to men to say wait wait wait a minute right yeah you know what you like is only you know credible because men have decided it is right that's right that's why i agree you know i agree not because it is objectively it's it's a skill for sure it's a really cool skill too totally you know whatever the sport is anybody who becomes a master at something they do it's fascinating to watch i know i know i know i know i know i know i know i like it too i i feel like that's why i like talking to people about anything really if you especially when you travel and you're like oh you're a you're a master shoe shiner like tell me more genuinely yeah what kind of you know what's it like when somebody has smelly feet your shoe shining what's that about how do you deal with it how do you deal how do you cope do you have a regular what do you guys talk about do you shine your own shoes are you over it what's the best kind of shoe to shine you know like really like i really care about that we can go in totally i think people um i think people are going to be like oh my god i'm going to be like oh my god i'm that's why people are endlessly fascinating and it's what you choose to find interesting that matters and i do think reality tv it's like you should you could my dream and i've said this quite a bit is towards the end of my life when i'm a professor somewhere they're like an honorary professor teacher reality studies class and like what what does it say yeah what do the kardashians say what does it reflect back to us as a culture what does it mean you know that that what do you think it means these days well there's so much reality tv it's hard to choose one thing yeah it's a valid medium and it's doing really really well but it does show us like love island showed us a lot did you ever watch did you watch the last two seasons of love yes you're my friend you are my friend the girls introduced me i didn't really know about it i would pass over it and then one day it was this one summer well was it covet i don't know what no it wasn't covet because it wasn't on but the girls were into it and it was the thing it came on every day and i was like oh i was i was judgy i was like yeah of course how could watching these kids in these bathing suits become a thing and then they were like just sit down and watch with us mom and i couldn't stop absolutely i couldn't stop i mean and there was a discussion deep discussion after every episode totally we'd have to spend a lot of time talking about it and i was like oh my god i mean especially this last season there was a lot of like race politics that came into play there were fandoms that came into play there was like somebody like you know how as beautiful as alandria you're like am i taking crazy pills here am i taking crazy this is like one of the most stunning women i've ever seen but when you're in this sort of fishbowl of like people whose beauty standards are one way you're just like oh this is really really weird and then that's what i love it's like when she got out of the house it's like she's going to bash it's like what she deserves but it did spawn a lot of conversation over fandoms and race and the united states and then the season before that there was some weird like dominican american stuff like it was like it really highlighted yeah it's like a weird fishbowl and it brought up some racial politics like of like heteronormative romance in a way that i think is really interesting and it is the easy it is lazy to me for people to count that out because it's reality tv there's so much there that's it but um that's why i think it's like really important 90 day fiance is its own thing that's saying a lot of crazy stuff about immigration and you know i saw a lot of times i'm rooting for the women trying to get in this country that i know in their home country make a dollar an hour and they're like talking to this old guy and they're like a hot young thing trying to get into the united states i'm like yeah yeah get get away shoot your shot get away alive you know it's like i don't know there's just so much but we've got our viewer questions yeah okay we have we have a question yes let me help okay let me help you yeah this is from benedetta and benedetta does not want us to know where she's from at 37 as a black woman i am finding myself at a bit of a crossroads i've recently graduated from a leadership program and while i've been fortunate to land interviews and receive great feedback i'm struggling to close the opportunities it's incredibly frustrating especially as i find myself applying for roles i know i can excel in there's a lingering uncertainty that i can't quite shake what more can i do to make the leap into a role that truly aligns with my aspirations i know that career journeys aren't linear but i'm reaching out because i'd love to hear your thoughts on staying motivated during this process how do you keep pushing through the uncertainty without settling when the pressure to take anything that comes your way is so real your advice would mean the world to me and that is from benedetta and benedetta who is 37 it's really hard because what i could have used and what i could use when i was an actor is like sometimes people just aren't gonna hire you because you're black and like you feel like you're taking crazy pills you're like oh i can't get this job oh i can't and you do all these things and you see other people get in maybe you're more qualified and like it's like you're not crazy actually like you sometimes you're just not gonna get it yeah because you're black we this is the we are the history of our country makes it so that we are it's actually harder for us to get jobs and that's very, real and like sit with that I think for a second and that's okay but then also it's like okay to be disappointed I feel like there there's that too it's like feeling like you know feeling like you're disappointed in the system comes with being the human experience I feel like but also keep you got to keep going and and make sure you fill your life with things that you enjoy that remind you of who you are like whether it's you know for me crafting making sure you laugh with your friends doing things that fill your tank is really important even when you get the job I know you're gonna get it's like make sure you fill your tank because work isn't the only thing it's like you're your whole you have a whole full life and you are a person outside of this job and make sure you hold on to that because it'll make the the stress of not working in the field that you want to like work in a little easier I think. And what what do you guys think? You know I I it's the how do you stay focused um I think sometimes you need to uh be ready to take an alternative path um because it it depends on what your circumstances are you know I mean I wouldn't tell somebody just hold on to your dream regardless of anything because you might not be able to do it um and and flexibility. And adaptability is is part of life you know I mean you don't I don't want to discourage anybody from pursuing their dreams but you got to eat you know a good part of happiness and feeling sustained is like I'm taking care of my family paying my bills and sometimes you know look this this whole notion of having the career that makes you happy and fulfills you I think is a relatively new goal our parents. Took jobs and they worked and they did what they had to do to pay the bills I don't think my father who was a stationary fireman at the water filtration plant all his life who was an artist he was a gifted painter and sculptor he couldn't do it because he had us and so he made the call that I'm gonna work for the city make a good salary send my kids to college you know most of of people in life. Are doing things that don't bring them passion you know it's like so they find it in other things and I think um I I would say keep an open mind to what is really possible um to uh and be ready to pivot you know um and try not to be too disappointed with the pivot because that it's how you feel about the pivot sometimes. That can determine it all if you feel like I gave up everything and I can't be happy now and or I failed because I didn't do this thing in the way that I thought it was done you know that's all in our heads and our hearts you know I mean you you know that it is not a statement of anything other than maybe you just didn't it didn't work out at that time at that time and sometimes things don't work out um but don't let that block your happiness. Or define you you know keep keep going if you can but be realistic if you can't you know um maybe yeah you're also always surprised like you're always Steve Jobs has that I'm really bad at quoting people but I understand the essence of it that's what I remember Steve Jobs has that really cool thing about connecting the dots and like you you want to do one thing but then you wind up doing something else and then you wind up doing something else but at the end it all kind of came together especially for him and making you know this this apple product and it's like you would be you know you're not gonna be able to do it if you don't do it if you don't be surprised the the route that you take to get to where you want I found that's been true in my in my life in my career which is the only thing I can really speak to and then the other thing that you reminded me of is thinking of your thoughts as trains like I had a really good therapist once tell me like your thoughts are coming and going you're on a subway platform the trains are passing and you can choose to get on the train or you can choose not to so when you're seeing this train that's like I'm a failure because I don't have the job I want right now you can choose to get on the train or you can acknowledge it and see it and have it pass you know but that that reminded me of that of like just because you think that you're a failure today because you don't have this job today doesn't mean that that's actually what's true that's right yeah well for Benedetta from someone who has pivoted quite a bit in their career I would say do not be afraid to begin at the beginning and that's where I think a lot of people get hung up on because they want to pivot and they want to pivot and they want to pivot into an equal or higher position to your point about you're not going to always find something because you gotta you gotta eat you gotta live you gotta raise your family you really have to think about starting from scratch and that might mean hey I want to I want to be a basketball coach and you take a salary cut and you do something else on the side while you're creating this new for yourself I I I I agree with Mish where this is a new thing where where people are actually actively trying to find the thing that they love to do because it feels like people are just absolutely so unhappy in their current situation but I don't think it's I think people have been thinking about this for a long time they just haven't had the wherewithal to do it and having done it a couple of times myself you just have to get past the fear of starting from the beginning and then the other thing that I would say is the Benedetta's 37 you said so she's young enough where if you can keep your lifestyle at a manageable place the the I think the reason that uh I I could make that first jump from corporate American investment banking to coaching was I never took my lifestyle up to the big-time bond trader level because I was always afraid that it wouldn't last um if you can if you can manage to do that it makes it easy to pivot it makes it easier easier easier to pivot yeah I mean I think that this is separate from her but like there is something where I say to much much younger much younger I'm talking like they're like 18 19 not to you Benedetta you know you my girl but where I go you ain't gonna like your job all the time yes you ain't gonna like it yes someday you you're not supposed to some days you're gonna work people you don't like you can't just quit you gotta you gotta have a job you gotta pay the bills like you're just not gonna like it so that's right no that's absolutely right so yeah that's not how it works but you gotta admit when you're doing something you like it's easier on the days where you hate that you gotta work for it but I mean even this job I love my job some days I'm not a morning person I gotta get up it just was what we do you just got to there's always something you're not gonna like and so this idea that you have to like it all the time I'm like nah well I'm living within living below your means living within your means I'm I'm telling young people that all the time I mean that's that's a key to freedom you know totally well Jessica this has been cool I had a blast I had a blast you guys were lovely I wasn't worried exhausted yeah I know it's like you're making the car oh my god I want to see that video it's like totally it's like I'm powering down powering down Jessica's off I'm gonna unpin my hair I'm gonna do it in the car my driver knows that's what's happening sometimes like as soon as I get in the car I take my wig off sometimes it's like goodbye totally when I get in the black car it's like they know but like I had a blast this was great I'll do it again anytime but thank you for having me it's been I wasn't worried thanks for being here you have a it's it's so much fun watching you um and you know I'm going to do it again I'm going to do it again I'm going to do it again you are killing it thank you and uh just keep it up girl represent us tall chicks out in the world keep opening up the opportunities for tall black women to do whatever we want yeah you were representing well thank you and give your mom our love even though you know especially Craig yeah whatever give her a hug for me I will she'll love it she's gonna watch this and she's gonna love it she's gonna be happy that that I did that thank you you did that thing thank you thank you sweetie thanks again to our friends at progressive insurance for sponsoring this episode for more information visit progressive.com slash open the house