Gerry McNamara - Syracuse Head Coach | Knicks vs Spurs

This episode of The Rising Shine Podcast is presented by Bigelow T, the number one T in America. Choose your perfect flavor from over 150 varieties, like Earl Gray and Green T, available at bigelowt.com, Amazon, or wherever you get your T. Bigelow T. Grab a mug, T proudly. Yes, welcome to another edition of The Rising Shine Podcast, presented by a good friend over at Bigelow T, grab a mug, and T proudly. Featured guest this week on The Rising Shine Podcast, my guy, new Syracuse basketball coach, the iconic Jerry McNamara is with us on The Rising Shine Podcast, 40 minutes of gold. We will talk to Jerry about what it means to him personally and professionally, going home to Syracuse after obviously he was there forever as an unbelievable player, his numbers retired, won a championship, an iconic player, all those great moments as a dominant, unbelievable guard for my orange, and then all those years as an assistant coach, what it means personally and professionally for him to be the head coach of Syracuse basketball, his dream job. We'll get into what he asked during the process, the new athletic director, the new chancellor, we'll get into how he's similar and different compared to trash to our guy Jim Beheim. We'll get into the roster construction, and why I loved he loved and was a no-brainer bringing the Santa players with him. We will get into why he wants Yukon on the schedule. We'll get into scheduling St. John's and Providence and playing in NBA arenas and big markets, Bercley Center, playing in Boston, playing a Madison Square Garden, how important that is for not only the fans and for alum and NIL, but for the players. I thought he was phenomenal on that. We'll get into his coaching staff. We'll get into what he missed about Syracuse, what he missed on campus, you know, some of his favorite places in Syracuse. We'll get into the Siena Duke game in the NCAA tournament. I could not get enough when he was talking about how much at the end of the day he has watched the Siena Duke game. He's watched it five different times. We're going to hear the specifics he gets into from that game. We talk at length about that. His reaction to John Shire's comments. If you're a Syracuse fan, you're going to absolutely just run through a wall. If you love great coaching, great players, you know, great attention to detail, you're going to love this conversation. It's amazing. And as we bring in our senior executive producer with the great Bob Stu, obviously we're excited about it. Syracuse basketball is very important to me, very important to the family, very important to all my friends. We went to college with, which is a big deal. We talked to Jerry about how for years on campus for graduating senior, the never saw tournament came, which is absurd for Syracuse basketball. And that was a a birthright every single year you make the tournament. Only question is how far were you going to go? And he got into how it's just unacceptable of what it means to the students. I mean, I my four years on campus, you know, my freshman year is John Wallace is, you know, taking Syracuse at the championship game against Kentucky. You know, I was there for all four years of Donovan McNabb as the quarterback for Syracuse football. So that needs to be part of it. It needs to be a fabric. And Jerry equals hope. And that's where I want to get into with you sports hope. And we've had some fun with a lot of Theo discussion when it comes to the beginning of the podcast in recent episodes and recent weeks. So the whole Shine family was thrilled that Jerry was on the pod. And, you know, Katie and I met in college and, you know, she obviously loved Syracuse. And, you know, Jolie, obviously, he's going to the Northwestern. And, you know, she never really had a great appreciation for Syracuse because, you know, the school obviously, I think if she didn't get it to Northwestern, which is a top 10 university, she would have gone to Syracuse in a heartbeat and absolutely would have loved it. But for Syracuse basketball Syracuse athletics, I mean, same with Maya, same with Theo. I mean, I've joked, you know, when Maya goes to Syracuse, people will ask because she, you know, your favorite child, I'm going to say I'm going to solve it by the question. The answer is, of course, she's going to Syracuse. But it brings me back to the fandom and specifically the next and specifically Theo. So Theo's never seen a championship. He's a diehard sportsman. He's 11. Next, Bill's Yankees Syracuse, not a success firm for three of the four. Three of the four. A lot of success. Never seen a championship. So we did this question as a poll question about two months ago on the radio show, would be which one of Theo's teams will win a championship first, Bill's Yankees and the next. You're picking the spurs in seven. I'm picking the nicks in seven. We just had Charles Barkley on the show and he picked the, the next one a championship in six games. Theo's going to be fired up about that. But if I have the opportunity here to for the first time in my lifetime, this would be the most special championship for a lot of different reasons, but I've never seen the next win. Plus you can share it with your son to share that and I'll take you a step further. And I thought about this. This would be one to share with the entire family. Yeah. Theo's a diehard nicks fan. He's the biggest nicks fan besides me in the house. He's, I mean, he's as big a nicks fan as I am or even more. Jolie and Maya love going to nicks games. And that's been their team for us. It's been Yankees nicks in the house. Katie is not a Yankee fan. Love's going to baseball games. That's her favorite sport to watch in person. She has become since me a nicks fan. And by the way, we met in 99, which is the last time Nicks were in the finals against the San Antonio Spurs. And we've been to a ton of nicks games and she's into it. She loves watching basketball on TV. So and I put a lot of thought into this. I didn't think anything necessarily for me would top the 96 Yankees. Of course. Yeah. This might. This has a shot because I'm obsessed with the next. If I could experience my first championship with my kids, this would be the most special championship of them all. Yeah. It's like a new chapter for you too. Because I don't think people really understand 96 as much anymore because then the Yankees went crazy and they just are winning a whole bunch of World Series. And now that people kind of forget how bad the Yankees were up until 96. How long the drought had really been for the Yankees. So yeah, I understand it from that perspective. And I think you're right. But also because this one is kind of improbable in my mind. I mean, the nicks have been a disaster for how long? I mean, it's been decades, like, 30 years of, of just the funery. Yeah. But funery is the perfect word for this. And also, you know, they're going up against San Antonio team that's favored. And the run has been insane. They've been on a heater. Literally, it was only a month, a month and a week ago, in late April, the nicks were down to the hawks in a series. Nobody thought that the nicks would be here. A lot of people just kind of poo poo them instead of it's going to be Boston. It's going to be Detroit. So it's also the run here is unbelievable. So I think you can dream out of I think you can. And if they did win if the nicks pulled it off, I mean, I'd like to see how it happens to, right? You know, the nicks win an epic seven game series. Yeah, I mean, this will be the championship on the peak of championships. It would be, it'd be number one, especially because the history of the nicks, nicks have no history, really. They have literally the 70s. And that said, still late 60s, early 70s. And that's a championship was four years before I was, yeah, I was born in 77. But people still talk about like Dave Dabusher and they still talk about Wal-Klaid Frager and they still talk about Wallace Reed. So that just goes to show you the impact those teams had on New York City and the area. Like people are still talking about MSG as the mecca of basketball because of those teams. That was like 60 years ago. I mean, let's just put it into perspective here, right? So if this nicks team wanted it, have to be number one, even above the Yankees in my opinion. Listen, if we can as a shine family, see the nicks won a championship. I don't know how you pop something like that. Jerry McNamara featured guest on the Rise and Shine podcast. You guys are going to love it, Tim. The Syracuse Basketball Coach joins us around this. Everyone knows sports are full of game day rituals. Be sure to start yours with a cup of big alone tea. Whether hot or iced, you know big alone takes pride in crafting the best cup of tea possible to get you ready for game time. The Bigelow family wants you to know from the hand-picked teas to the carefully selected ingredients all protected in a foil pouch. Bigelow insurers, you get that perfect cup of tea every time. Drinking big alone means you never have to settle. No matter what the occasion, there's a big alone tea that's right for you. Choose from big alone teas like green tea. Lemon ginger with probiotics, the nation's top-selling Earl Grey, or the original constant comet. You could be proud to choose big alone tea. So as long as you're cheering on your team this season, make sure you do what I do. Have your Bigelow T, your favorite Bigelow T by your side. Bigelow T, grab a muck, T proudly. The head coach of Syracuse, basketball. My guy, Jerry McNamara, who's nice enough to give us a few minutes live on the line. Coach, how are you? Adam, how are you, sir? I'm doing great. I'm doing great, it's great to see you. 99 Syracuse grad, you know what I mean? You got to watch out for those guys, you know what I'm saying? I'm telling you, class of 99, baby, you know the deal. And look, there are so many things I can't wait to have this conversation. But let's get into it just with that as a backdrop, right? Head coach Syracuse, basketball. What does that mean to you on a personal and professional level? That's a very loaded question. Yeah, I mean, I've said it before, it was difficult for me to kind of put into words what the university meant to me. You know, the way I looked at it was I came in as a high school kid 18, you know, green didn't know a thing, but the way I was embraced throughout my playing career here, like I was just so grateful for that. And then I think it hit a different, deeper level when I came back to coach and through the process of living here for 15 years, I raised a family here. So, you know, the place that once took care of me as a player embraced me, then helped raise my, helped me raise my family, you know, in terms of our community. So, to be back here, like this is my, you know, it was always my home. Scranton, I consider home, but for my children, like my four kids were raised here. Like this is the place that I love, the place that I bled for, that I poured into as much as I could. I'd say the most appropriate word of all, but it's grateful. Like, even now, the opportunity to lead the program as the head coach, just incredibly grateful. And the place, you know, I could look at it like I keep giving here, but I feel like it's a mutual reciprocal effect that we're given to each other. You know, we both love each other and we'll do anything we can for each other. One hundred percent, and I love the way you say that. Now, dream jobs are dream jobs, right? You could have dream jobs and they can change, right? And I think for you, it was always the same dream job. But I'm curious as you're at Seattle and, you know, you're certainly doing a great job. And you're in the mix, and there's a new athletic director. And it's a new world in college basketball, and there's NIL. And there's a new chancellor. What did you need to hear from Syracuse? Not what they needed to hear from you. What did you need to hear to make this dream job a reality? I have always said, even the first time, you know, I remember doing a local article here, and it was, you know, down at the toe to here, who does a great job covering us. Donna had asked me a simple question, and I think within that, I said, I need to be able to, whenever I make the change to be a head coach, I need to feel like I'm being recruited again, that I'm their guy at the position. And I felt that in the first job I took. I knew Sienna, I was their guy. They made that very evident, very clear. I think with this transition, obviously, Chancellor Haney coming in, Brian coming in, you know, there's a lot going on as the process is evolving. And I think it was the same thing. It was first and foremost, we need to get to know each other, you know, on a personal level. What do you stand for? What do I stand for? Family, family, family. You know, that type of thing is important. And then beyond that, as you go through your process, you're going to talk to multiple people. It's just what it is. I think you need to do your due diligence. And I think as they went through their process, and it got down to a certain stage, and I was going through obviously, what I was going through in terms of NCAA tournament, and going through my process stayed incredibly focused. I think it came down to those same conversations, just like a recruiting conversation of, you know, the same type of thing. Like, hey, we've gotten to know you. And I think that was really with Brian Blair and I, that was kind of what it came down to. It really evolved from the first phone conversation of him just introduced himself to the first sit down to the second, or really to the third conversation we had. And once we had that third conversation, I think we were motivationally aligned of what we saw going forward in the vision of the program. That's what I needed to hear. I just needed to hear that, hey, we're in this together. I believe in you, you believe in me. And once that was said, you know, I guess you could say the rest is history. Yeah, without question. Now, your press conference was more like a victory party. And I loved every single second of it. I mean, it was, it was exactly what was needed on so many different levels. And you referenced, you know, I graduated in '99. My four years on campus, Donovan McNabb was the quarterback, right? Literally, my four years as a student. My freshman, I mean, it's about as great as it gets, right? My freshman year, Syracuse goes to the title game. That's John Wallace here, right? There is an expectation when it comes to what Syracuse basketball should look like. And the students who were there for four years is, you know, who just graduated, they didn't have any of that. So your reaction when a question was asked, I thought that was so personal. And I thought it meant something. Also, the attachment to Syracuse, the city. Look, you can watch the local news and it's the economy. It's the lake effects, no, and it's Syracuse basketball in the A block, not necessarily in that order. So take us through the importance, Jerry, of, you know, the relationship between the basketball team and the students and what they need to ultimately get out of this experience. And also, the relationship with the incredible, amazing, hardworking people in central New York. Yeah, it all filters into one. You know, that's the reality, you know, that it was a simple question and it resonated with me because it didn't even really hit because I had been gone for a few years. But to really think that the students that just graduated from Syracuse University didn't see the team playing the NCAA tournament. And to me, it was something that I always took pride in as a player. You could almost walk through campus with your chest up and held your head held high because you knew you did right by the people that showed up to support it. So that was somewhat devastating to me to think about that because I truly believe when you, when you, a lot of high school kids have the opportunity to go to a lot of great different institutions, you know, I think ours altogether with what we have to offer academically and some of the programs we have are top-notch in the country. But as you make that decision, what could be the deciding factor of, you know, let's say new house where we're the number one program in the country, you know, I know Northwestern has a great program. Well, you know, Adam, you might be down to two schools and the reality of it is like, man, you know what? I'd really love to be a part of, you know, I know they have a great communications program. I know they have a great business program. I know they have a great sport management program. What's the separating factor in what makes Syracuse different from other places? Well, basketball. Number one, you know, that's how I feel. That's how that's that should be part of the student experience in my opinion. We've worked too hard, Coach Bayon worked too hard for too long to build this thing to look a certain way. Now, there's a lot that's changed in the sport. You know that, I know that everybody knows that. But the people that have been here through the great times understand how special it is. You and I went through it both as students and being a part of it when it feels right athletically and it's always going to feel right academically here. This is special academically. We have to be able to match those two things because the most important thing as the university moves forward is that students get the full experience. The full experience needs to be both academically and athletically. It means too much to the people that attend here. It means too much to the people that live here. You know that I love hearing that. By the way, it's, you know, I have to smile at the North-Western line because my oldest daughter is going to North-Western in the fall. How did you allow this to happen? I mean, it's basketball. I mean, it's all because of Ben's basketball. If I knew that you were going to be the coach instantly, I mean, would it change everything, Jerry? So now, you know, I have two younger kids. You know, one is a sophomore in high school. So, you know, my other daughter, my oldest daughter is going to North-Western. Now, Maya is going to be paying attention to the basketball team. So, you know, that's going to change everything for the Shine family now. Get another Shine back to CUS. Congratulations, by the way. That's fantastic. Nah, that's awesome. I appreciate you saying that. So, I always thought one of the genius things about Jim Bayheim and you were part of it, his coaching staffs were always great. And always had tremendous, balanced, great coaching staffs. I thought you put together a really calculated all-star coaching staff. Take us through how and why you put together the staff that you did. Yeah, I mean, layers upon layers. And you're talking, you know, 20 years of, or going on 20 years of relationships with certain people too. So, you know, when, obviously, when I got to see in a, you know, it was important to me. I started with Ben Lee, who I just knew was a young and hungry, who worked with my co-opins at Washington. And that's how he and I met. And, Ben and I really kind of worked hand in hand early on of trying to piece together a roster, added Ryan Blackwell and Arunze on O'Waco, Ryan Bury, people that, you know, I gave two guys Arunze and Ryan an opportunity in college, you know, they hadn't been at that level. But I knew I knew how good a coach Ryan Blackwell was what he did here with Liverpool High School. But more importantly, because of how long I know I knew how good he'd be in a living room with people. He's such a good person. I knew, you know, as we, if we're going to preach skill development, I know this is a young and hungry coach who I played with. I know how much he puts into it. He was, he was, it was pretty evident how clear he was serious about being a coach, you know, he worked in the G League. I can't come back and work that Gonzaga High School in DC, one of the premier high school programs. So I thought adding him just immediately from, you know, a guy that I knew I could trust from the big guy spot in terms of development. And then obviously you make the transition here. Those guys are my guys. They're coming with me. No doubt about it. You know, but then to add, I knew in terms of the recruiting piece in coming here, it was the same thing. I wanted someone like Jamal Brunt, who I had such great respect for, where I've watched Jamal. And just, you know, he and I laughed about it. Like, you know, what was our relationship beforehand? I'm like, you know, man, I pay attention. Like I just watched. The wall has been competing against him when he was at Miami at VCU, how he carries himself, talking to him when we're sitting in the gym on the road, how people talk about him in the recruiting circles. But I also wanted someone that was my age that has been through this the same way I have, who's going to knock it out the park in terms of just both relationships, how he trains guys, the recruiting piece, how well respected he is. And then along the lines of Ben Lee, I thought Ryan Daly was a young, up and coming hungry. And another guy that I had a long history of relationship, when I even talked, talked to Ryan about hiring him at Siena when I went the first time. The problem was I didn't want to come into town. Ryan was at you Albany at the time and take you Albany's assistant and move across time. So I was like, hey, man, I'm not coming in trying to throw uppercuts. You know, hopefully down the road, we can link up. And, you know, then I've obviously filled the pieces around it. Pete Corson, Edie here, who's done such a great job. He's one of the most organized people I've ever been around. You know, when I trained him when he was a student manager and then he was our GA, Greg Fahey, I think, is going to be just knock it out the park GM. He thinks differently than I do just from a business standpoint. When he brings stuff to me and they go over around my head, I'm like, listen, man, call Brian. I just feel like we've got the right mix in terms of of, you know, both the recruiting piece, the relationships we have, but however it respected, these guys are, but more importantly, how hungry they are. You know, they share the same vision that I have for here that this is just, you know, Jamal, I saw an interview he did and he said the same thing. Like, I know what Syracuse looked and felt like when I was growing up and they know the task at hand. They know we're focused on that and, you know, guys that I, you know, trust wholeheartedly that I know they're going to do the best job they could do. And I think it's important to get players who understand that. What Syracuse is supposed to look like, what it's supposed to feel like. And obviously they're going to be coached by you and other guys who were certainly excellent playing for Syracuse, which, which is important. So building the team and building the roster. First of all, you have to look at the current roster and decide who stays, who doesn't. You have to re recruit guys if you want. You have the portal. You have to figure out, you know, NIL, which is totally different than obviously when you were a player and different in terms of a budget when I'm sure you're at Sienna. Obviously. So I kind of did the roster you put together. It feels like it was smart. It was calculated. Take us through the roster, the NIL, if you got what you needed and how you feel about this team heading into your first years at head coach. A lot of moving parts. You know, and I made the decision just so I could be completely transparent, really clear. When I got the job even at Sienna, I made up my mind. Whoever's already in the portal, I'm not re recruiting. Like they've made up their mind. Like, so for instance, the kid like Brendan Coil, who was a home run stud star for us at Sienna stayed. And we had a great conversation about what the future looked like and look at how his career has turned out. So it was, to me, it was important. Like who loves Syracuse first? Like who is willing to see what the transition would be like? Because that's important to me. For that reason, you know what it means. Like you've been here. You know what it means. Do you love it? So that was kind of my first thought process. And you know, then as you go through it, it's there's so many moving parts in terms of all right, what do you see? What do I see? How do I envision your game your role next year? And then it's like, all right, well, what's the money? Like, so if, if, if certain guys have, you know, I watched every game. If I didn't have a game at Sienna, I watched every single game that Syracuse played last year. I love the program. I love daydream. I love the staff because they're friends of mine. Like I was just supporting them from the outside because I wanted them to do well. So I watched every game. So I know what these guys are capable of. So that next conversation becomes about the NIL piece. So if that conversation just gets crazy right away, I'm just like, no, I'm not, it's a no. Simple as that. Yeah, really simple. Like it, and it's kind of easy that way. Like, listen, if that's, in a lot of it's not the kid, the kid is going through representation. So if it doesn't even, if we're not even in the ballpark, because it's what I envision. And I know I have a certain amount of money that I have to go out and recruit for. Like if you're eating up that much of it, like, how can you fill out a reasonable? So that's where we started. And then it became, it was pretty clear. Like I wanted to see any guys were coming. You know, I think that that that was Gavin Dodie was coming to play for me. I don't think there's a percent. Yeah. So Tassie Goodrick. I'm a little bummed out for him this past year at Sienna that he didn't get a chance to fully showcase him. So he kids a good player, really good player, elite rebounder. In the first four games before he got injured, he was averaging like 12 and 9, you know, just elite offensive and defensive rebounder. And then Francis later in the process finished going through his processing comes. So for me right away, the coming in with familiarity of guys that know me know how I operate. So within the locker room setting, when I'm not around, they'll be like, Hey, no GMAC, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is how he does things like you need to a when he says that crazy thing, just let it go by. Like, you know, those type of things are important for me, that I do have some familiarity coming into the program. And you know, the end of the day, it's like I said, when I first took over a program, the the team and product I put on the court is a representation of the community. Like you have to go out there, like that's first and foremost, they have to be proud of what they're watching. So for me, what makes me happy? Guys that play hard every second of every person. There's no nonsense. It's maturity. There's professionalism. You play both ends. And I think that's what we put together with this roster. You know, if you if in here's the other thing too, if you really look at the roster, every single player on this roster has multiple years. You know, even Garway, where you you have the five and five, this will be his fifth year or four school and four years. So you know, that comes into effect. Heat have another. So there's a lot of players. If if you hit right and you coach them the right way and they enjoy playing for you, the retention's key. That's why we won in year two at Sienna. We kept our best players. And then I knew where my holes were. And I needed to fill gaps. And we went out and got good Rick Maldi France's full effects. So we filled the pro Antonio Chandler. So for me, it's can you hit it right in year one to put out a product that's going to fight their tails off to understand what it means to where the Syracuse Orange. And then how do you mature throughout that year? What type of because who knows? I mean, you could be really good right away or you could be like, man, we're close. This is what we need. So I feel really good about our starting point right now. It's how I built it at Sienna. But I know for effect that the group I've put together, they are going to fight for us. And that is not negotiable here. Yeah, that's that has to be a non-negotiable. I want to ask you all for that. How you would describe your coaching style. Because look, we know you as a player, know you as an assistant coach. And as a head coach, you know, forming your own identity as a head coach, and you were around Jim Bayheim forever. I want to get into that in a little bit. But you're Jerry McNamara, your coach McNamara, your exes and O's, accountability, the way you played. That I think in watching Sienna when I watch and obviously the Duke game, that was on display. How did you develop Jerry as a head coach? How would you describe your style as a head coach? Yeah, I very transparent. I tell the guys, you know, respect and maturity, those two things like I have to have it. But I also say I'm the easiest guy in the world to play for it. If you give me those two things, because I'm always going to tell you, and I don't need to talk at you, if you're doing those two things for me, I don't need to talk at you. Kids don't like to be talked at. I can talk to you. So I can coach you through that as long as you give me those two things. Now you give, you don't give me one of those. You're going to, the decibels going to go up. That's different. You know, but if those two things are good, like, hey, we can coach through that. You know, and then in terms of playstyle, it just became about efficiency for me. Like how efficient can we be? And that's why we were number one and offensive efficiency this past year at Sienna. It's not how fast you could play. It's how efficient you can play. And then, you know, I think as guys, you know, go through practice and understand what I expect. And I truly do believe I'm easy to play for for those reasons, you know So I'll get upset with certain things like two hand rebounds. It's the same thing It's like a staple for me like you'll hear me yell a lot and practice two hands two hands So if a guy doesn't go for a two-hand rebound, I'm gonna get angry because we work on it every day So I think because of the fact that I'm not I Think there's a lot of people that create a narrative to put a kid in a certain position Because he knows he doesn't want to play him a certain way or this and that where guys will yell it guys Just a yell it guys. It's really not me. I think the kids that play for me understand that certain things do make me angry If you don't play hard, you're going to see a different version of me. That's just as long as we're clear on that That's right. That's right. You know, we're fine So that if you just do that you look me in the eyes when I coach you Now it calms me down to where now I can tell you what I want and we can go from there And and I just think because it's just really transparent and how I do things what I expect That it's worked, you know, it's really work. So I'm not lying to a kid or doing this on that. It's Yeah, I do it my way. I think it was you know, I think one of the things I always appreciated about coaches publicly He would he certainly didn't mince words. I'm not that brave to me With my players with my team. I tried to you know, you spend more time with these guys than your own family So the most important thing is the experience that they go through I got four kids like these kids have to have a good Experience under me. I want them to feel like I'm getting a different I can't get this anywhere else like this. This he's treating me right very transparent. I know what to expect So I just try to do it that way do it my way I'm my audience those how much I love Jim Bayheim He's always on the show and and I think you know, he's one of the great coaches in the history of college athletics and the history of basketball Frankly, and what he did also There's only one Jim Bayheim there could only be one Jim Bayheim in terms of his quirks in terms of everything in terms of who he is what he does So how would you say you guys are similar? How are you difference? What did you learn from him? I'd say our coaching styles maybe are a little different Just in terms of communication I think I'd communicate probably a little bit differently than coach But we're more similar in ways than we are different, you know, I think he and I always got along so well because of the competitive side because of how truly competitive he is I Think I didn't know like you just play for a guy and like man He really likes me like he speaks highly of me and I think it's because He understood I valued what he and I didn't think about it back then when I was a kid 1819 like I just played hard and did everything I could and Now as a coach. It's like you truly Appreciate the kids that just give everything they have because at the end of the day. What else can you ask for? So I think that's That's probably how we're we're the most similar we're just naturally competitive and the expectation of how hard you have to play to get the result that you want to achieve which is winning Yeah, that that's just where we're most alike I'd say just over the years Mike Hopkins used to say he could take a really complicated situation and simplify it Yeah, absolutely Absolutely and just some of the years like with some of the things we had to deal with some of the adjustments I'll never forget like it's a great. I Drawback on a lot of experiences that I've had as as player or coach and I remember 2013 our final four-year And I think that was Michael and CJ We had lost four or five in the Big East going into the Big East tournament and James Sutherland I think goes bananas in the Big East tournament and it and it was like one simple Offensive adjustment that he made one game. He's like Mike. You're gonna pass it to the wing You're just gonna go pen down you're gonna go pen down for James and See how that works and my kids the wing he goes he pens away James comes off a curl hits a three and then the next time He does it again he gets another shot then we come out of the next time out and he counters off of it And it's like hey now you're gonna pin down James you're gonna catch it You're gonna swing it back to Mike you're gonna go down the middle now. You got floppy action and next thing You know I was looking at us and we're just like grooving Yeah, we go game we end up losing the Louisville who won the national championship that year But steam rolled that into a final four so like I'm I'm thinking we're falling apart Going into the Big East tournament. We actually hit our stride in the Big East tournament and then make a final four runs. So It's just it puts in perspective learning under him of How you truly can't impact a team and how you have to keep them always even kill you can't let them get too high or too low Because you can't help them change quickly So I just you know truly competitive But always thinking of how he can help and if you you really go back He was really big on adjustments late in the year. Yes, like he would change a lot of things going into the final stretch So we weren't predictable and all of a sudden you've got a different wrinkle And I tried to do that this year a little bit late with with seeing a just trying to put in one or two different different sets down the stretch for us Just you know, I could go on and on about all the experiences that I had with them So but I think we just always clicked a line because of our competitive nature and appreciation for each other I'm kind of obsessed with the out of comfort schedule and also the Northeast games you know Boston garden Providence Rutgers Barclays St. John's Madison Square Garden. I think it's important to play those games I think it's important to play in big cities. I think it's important for recruiting I think obviously it's important to win those games with Alum and potential NIL donors you and recruits you know the deal Why was that important for you in terms of that portion of the schedule for all those reasons? Yeah, for every reason you mentioned You know, I think there's there's Regional ties, you know you and I are from the old school There's still areas that we need to be in there's still arenas and venues that we need to play in So When we move conferences like the first thing that when we move for the biggest the ACC I remember thinking like man No more big east like bummer and it's because you get an opportunity to play in that building and when Syracuse plays in the garden Yeah, you know, I know like we're showing out like Syracuse We're gonna have our crowd the ambiance is unbelievable and you guys players coaches feed off of that no question There's there's it's a different it's a different feel like you feel like I'm on the biggest stage in the sport with our Crowd showing how big our brand truly is that was the feeling I always got When I stepped on that core and I looked around and I saw how many of our people were in that building I'm like yep our brand's the biggest So it was important for me to bring that back not just for me For the program but for the guys like they need to The players that go come through here need to be on those stages They need to feel what that feels like and how important it is and I need to go into that game Preaching to them and getting them to understand what you're about to do how important it is So to your point we need to be in certain areas play against certain teams But we also have to get to the point where there's no fear in playing those games We have to like why would yeah, that's what we do that's where we need to get to and again as you go through there We have to elevate the program to be one of those teams back in that mix to where we're nationally elite And we're on that stage competing Obviously it resonates with everything with your fan base with your players certainly with with recruits Can we get you con back in the conversation? I'll talk to Danny this offseason. It's something obviously that both fan bases would love um So you know, I despised Yukon Yeah real hate like real amazing sports hate of course and they despised me yes And I think part of it is and there it's undeniable and I said this about the Georgetown rivalry in college I have a great appreciation for that program Like part of the hatred was because of how I just went out on you. I don't know my lights just went out I still got part of the appreciation was because of how good and talented they were um And they were hard to beat so when you lose to a team you get pissed off and you you hate them. So They're they're definitely you know, obviously what Danny's done um They're they're right there. They're back in the mix in terms of top teams in college basketball and We want to be on that stage. I want to play and against the best teams and coach against the best coaches Rick patino's elite Danny hurly's elite You know, I want to be among the elite the way you do that is you continue to challenge your program to put yourself on that stage Hey listen, I think it's great everybody wants that that you try to help you out with these lights Oh, there it is light let there be light coaches for light and now you know where we're we're getting it We're getting it back How about when john shire said what he said in terms of your coaching ability after that game And and Evan flow of that game now looking back Did you think you guys were gonna? to win because you're always when you're watching a game, Jerry, you don't expect the 16 to win. That's the mentality of someone watching it. I felt like, obviously, you weren't going to the bench with the injuries and the way the starting five was cooking. I thought you guys had a real shot and I thought Duke was running a title this year. That was my take. That was my pick. What did it mean when John said that after the game? Ebb and flow, did you think you were going to do it? It meant a lot. John and I have been friends a long time and I think what he's done, like the criticism he takes because he hasn't won a national championship yet. They've been incredible under him. Just elite. So it meant a lot to me for John as a friend to say that. But I, from the start, even when he said it, I said, hey, I appreciate the compliment from John, but it really is the players. I don't lie in terms of what I feel about my team. I had said even in the year that we started and went from four, went to 14 and 18 that I'm like, man, I really like the way these guys approach it. There's a professionalism that they, there's no nonsense. They're really, really mature and professional in terms of how I come into practice and what they absorb and how they retain it. I don't deal with any BS in my practices. No attitudes, nothing. So that whole year, it was the same thing. So it really was a tribute to the players that I coached of how they prepared. So I appreciated him saying it, but I thought it was really a testament to how my guys played, to put themselves in the situation because I did think we were winning. I thought the game flipped. Two things happened in my mind because I've watched it probably five or six times since the lot. Wow. Wow. Because you, I have to, you know, I'll never get over it because I wanted that memory for them. Like I just thought it would have been so cool. Yeah. When we missed the back-to-back dunks to go up 15, we would have had complete control of the basketball game. And then I think it would have really hit them like, oh my God. Like we're down 15 and they're kind of operating against us like really kind of doing. We were, we were moving the ball. We were getting good shots. We were on self-assuring it. And that would have been a two open dunks. And if Francis, you know, Riley, you had the first Francis, the second one, that led to a breakout dunk, which led to an 11-0 run. And then they switched to zone and the zone kind of slowed us down a little bit. And when we had opportunities to make a shot, we just weren't able to capitalize, did fatigue, play a factor. Sure, I'm sure it did. But I just thought those guys put us in position to win. But yeah, I mean, even down to the end. We had a four, we were down. I thought we were up two. I'm sorry, we got down two. And I thought there was a bogus foul call on Booser, like a horrific call. Like we just vertically contested it. He missed it. We would have got the rebound with a chance to tie it. And they blew the whistle. He makes both free throws. We're down four. Then on that next possession, we run good offense. We hit the short roll. And Maldi has a dunk. And I think it was sar rotated from the backside rotation and made an incredible block at the rim. And that was kind of like the, oh, shoot. But if I could do like the play he just made was so high level to keep them up to possessions. But just really proud of our group of how hard they played. I really thought their character was on display for all college. But everyone was probably watching that game when they saw the score on the ticker, everyone probably tuned in. So I was happy that my kids, we got a tough draw. I thought we were better than a 16. But shoot, what other opportunity would you rather have than to get an opportunity to play Duke and the NCAA tournament? And for them to play the way they did and showcase themselves and put themselves out there, just really proud of them. Happy for them. And it's a game, every basketball fan, every sports fan, we'll remember. There's no question about it because the way they played coaching Carmelo's kid. Amazing, weird, incredible, wild, surreal. And how do you handle that? I'm curious, seriously, with Carmelo. I'd probably all that. I'd say terrifying that we're at the stage where it's happened so fast where I get a chance to coach Kai. But I think really unique, really cool, really kind of full circle that Kai always wanted and grew up with his father being, you know, the face of our program. You know, he did what he'll let us to what no one was able to do here. And for him to follow those steps and come here and be a part of that. I just think it's awesome. It's an awesome story. And he's really talented. I think he's really talented player. So I think he takes a lot of criticism, you know, probably unwarranted from last year. He's a freshman in college. You know, a lot of kids freshman in college are there's a learning curve and a process now and some of these teams are older and think a lot of the teams in the league were last year and offensively just gifted. You know, he's got the ability to isolate and beat a guy one on one. He and I have talked about I think his ability to stretch and shoot and be to go along with, you know, he's so good with the basketball. You're naturally going to gravitate to it. And I watched games last year when he was in the game. It wasn't just that he gravitated to it. It was like people were looking for him. Like where's Kai? You know, so for me coming in like I shot it really well. I think the most important thing for him in a system is spacing. So and you be the guy that both plays with the basketball with the opportunity to attack the space and can you be the guy that's off the ball while someone else is attacking space. So for me, if you're the guy that's off the ball now being a leech shooter too because I know you can isolate and put people off the belt. So I think he's working on all of it. You know, he's back home now. He's working on his body. He's got the best skill development trainer on the planet with his father and his footwork. So it's just, yeah, I'm happy for him to see the jump that he's going to make. It's terrifying to me that I have the opportunity to coach him. But I'm also, you know, again, the experience for him to watch him go through this program the way he's father did the way I did. Pretty neat for me to get the opportunity to do it with him. Do you like the NCAA tournament expansion? No, no. Yeah, I can't say that. I think it's don't touch it. Don't touch it. It's a perfect tournament, right? Why would you mess around with it? Don't touch it. I mean, there's really nothing else I have to don't touch it. Just don't do it. All right, final one for you. Give us the restaurants, the establishments, the local celebrity that you are so excited now back Syracuse living. Give us the Syracuse piece of history tradition. You know, I always think of Flipnight at Fagans. Give me something you are so excited to be back on campus for or back in the city for it would have been Conrad's illegally probably when I was. I mean, I was there. It was 44s. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, to be honest, it's, it's the excitement of like early season football game where I go over in September knowing like this weather is going to flip by October, November, and then basketballs here. Like that's when it starts to juice up for me is that first, like, first or second football weekend where I'm like, yeah, basketballs right around the corner, nothing against them. I'm going to go there and root for them, but I'm really thinking about what I love, which is the hoop season coming around. Then so many different things around campus. You know, like, I love, I love this summertime because it's not busy up here. Yep. You can get campus easy. You know, you can go over and I could stop in the varsity or, you know, somewhere along, you know, where it's not just jam packed with students there. I'm getting older, man. These young kids. You know, so I just, and then I'll tell you, someone just asked me, we get our guys this weekend. We're going to start this next week. And the most exciting day for me is the is not the first practice. It's the first time I watch the first practice. The first time I watch film off of our first practice. Like, that's my favorite day of the year. Like, what do we look like? And then how do I help? How do we build from here? You know, those are the type of things that that I look forward to, like that early season football game going into seeing the people in varsity, you know, but really my focus right now and with our guys coming back on campus, like, it's for the first time since I got the job. I'm like, yo, I'm about to coach basketball. Like, this is what I want. You know, I had ankle surgery so I was out for a couple of weeks and I came in and a couple of guys were in the gym playing yesterday. I text my wife. I'm like, man, I forgot how it like you forget. It's like the energy, the music playing. Like, I just, I'm back to where I want to be. I'm coach of basketball. Oh, man. I've got the chills. And I understand exactly what you're saying with that, that weather starts to turn at the end of September, middle of September to like, it's basketball season. I get that completely. What are you on the car? All 100% Jerry. I'm fired up. This this is unbelievable on so many levels. Appreciate the time. Congratulations. All right. All right. My lights went out, you know, I bless the lights went out for whatever reason in my office. So well listen up. I'm not not even remotely appreciate the time as always and we'll do this again real soon. That was good. Thanks Adam. Thank you to our presenting sponsor, Pigolote. 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