George & Itoje rally around Borthwick before Wallabies clash

This BBC Podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Formula One is all about precision, tiny margins, massive ambition, flat out performance. And that's exactly why it's exciting to see Cadillac entering Formula One, bringing an American luxury brand with performance pedigree onto the biggest stage in motorsport. But this isn't just about the grid. That same racing mindset, the obsession with engineering, the pursuit of perfection, gives in the Cadillac V Series lineup, giving you the chance to experience the precision and performance of the grid on the open road. Cadillac V Series, distinctive luxury performance, engineered to thrill. Discover the V Series lineup at Cadillac.com. This is Daniel Fischel. Right or strong. And Wilford L. Ready to turn up the holiday season? Armand Hammer is bringing the biggest jingle ball ticket giveaway ever to Dallas Fort Worth. Enter for your chance to score two tickets to the 2026 I Heart Radio jingle ball and experience an unforgettable night of music, energy, and some of today's biggest stars. Enter to [email protected]/ahbigwin Five lives, rugby union weekly. Right, rugby and weekly, Friday, the England team has dropped. The Aussie team has dropped. We're almost there at Ireland against identity and starts off. The return of the nation's championship on Friday night. But so much look forward to through Saturday and on Sunday with England hosting Australia. Loads to come on this episode of the rugby union weekly. We've got the England captain, Mario Atouje, on the way. We're inside the Wallaby Camp with their assistant coach, the Englishman John Fisher. But first up on the pod at the England vice captain, on front of the pod, Jamie George. It's great to be back. And great to be back and ready to go with England after a few months. I mostly mean you. Mostly mean the pod. It's never about an individual. Right, sorry. We're a team at a collective. A bit like a good rugby side. There we go. So what about the collective? It's actually all about the audience. And in your case, I'm sure it's all about the England fans. So correct. We're on the same page. But it must be good to get back in England and be ready to go. It's been a little while since you played in Argentina. Yeah, it feels like a long time ago Argentina to be completely honest. We are just what an amazing opportunity we have. The England Australia rivalry is right up there for us. But also the opportunity to back out against this weekend. It's just one that we are hugely excited about. And yeah, like kick off what's going to be a pretty awesome few weeks. You mentioned the stadium. You haven't played there since March. Yeah, it was mentioned today. And the Ireland game. And that didn't go so well. Yeah. Is that on your mind? A bit of kind of a few sort scores to settle. And a crowd kind of to win background. Yeah, Oli Chesam spoke about that today. He spoke really well about that. The fact that we're back there and hadn't been there since Ireland. And hopefully we don't have to win them back. You know, there's been a couple of relatively good performances in the meantime. Yeah. But yeah, look, it's. I know that we're going to have the backing of this, the English fans. Whenever we're there at the Allianz stadium, it's just bouncing. And I know that we're going to feel that energy and feel that passion from the stands. And that's why it's such a unique place to play. When you look at the team that's been named by Steve Borthwick this lunchtime. Fin Smith pulls through. There's some consistency in the midfield. You've got this back three on the park, which I know you've been trying to get for a while. And George had his appendicitis. I don't want to talk about first playing yet. Right. I was speaking about that. I was still 48 hours. Yeah, what time's kickoff three or five hours? We've got about three o'clock at the time. Yeah, yeah. So, so let's get in there. Let's not cross any bridges. But the team you've got out there. And then a few players that are coming back, you look at the front row stocks that have been bolstered by Will Stewart, by Finn Baxter, Greg Fistelow, debut off the bench. Which will surely happen. Ben Curry for Tom. So if you ever need consistency or continuity. It's a like for like an identical twin. It's probably a good place to start. But when you get players back in the environment. Of course, you're captain Mario Atouji. Does that change things? Massively. Massively. You know, those guys, I think it's always nice. You know, I spoke to George Martin about this recently. I spoke to him about it in the summer. You know, you don't know what you got till it's gone, I suppose. And, you know, that sort of re-energizes people. And the sort of energy that Finn Baxter has brought back into the group and Ben Curry in his weird and wonderful ways. You know, they're just, you know, I think now you're looking at the 15. I think you then look at the 23. I think you look at the quality that we have on the bench. You know, that's much more the sort of team that we want to be. And, you know, that has been emphasised to us over the last 12 months in particular. The importance of Test match rugby being an 80 minute game. And we've lost a few games in the last quarter of games. And, you know, I think that if you're an England fan, which we both are. And you look at that and think like, you know, this is a really exciting group to bring off the bench. And, you know, then it just emphasises the importance of us at the start of the game. Make sure we get that right. Now, knowing you're in camp, you guys are kind of shielded from the outside noise. But you would have been aware of a report that came out overnight about things behind the scenes. And things not going so well in Argentina at the aftermath. And a bit of a breakdown between Steve and the senior players. What can you tell us about that? I can tell you that a lot of it's untrue. I can tell you that we as a squad are incredibly disappointed by it. I think you just have to look at the timing of the article two days out from our first test match. I think it's clear clearly there to try and be divisive. We have had to address it, which is the first time I think in my England career. We've had to address an article that's been written as a group. We had to address that this morning, which is an exactly ideal prep in terms of a distraction. But we spoke about it brilliantly. Marrow called a leader's meeting and thought that that was the best way of us going about it. I mean, we were all in agreement. Like, we are upset with it. We really are. And, you know, I'm hurting for Steve because it seems like a bit of an attack on him. As I said, a lot of it's untrue, especially in around the feeling. And I think the word toxic was written there that couldn't be further from the truth. Unfortunately for whoever's written this article, obviously their aim was for it to be divisive. Unfortunately for them, it's going to go the other way. This is going to galvanise us. It's going to make us tighter because we speak a lot about standing up for people. We speak a lot about helping each other. And, you know, we've got to make sure that we do that for Steve who, you know, has added a bit of a personal attack here. And I'm warranted one of that. Obviously, I can't speak for the aims of the article or the timing or anything. But did you recognise anything in it around the Argentine of Weeks? We know that was a pretty fraught week for all kinds of reasons. And, you know, you hear plenty of stuff about the scene of players challenging what was happening. And then things happen to be cleared afterwards. That can't be no bad thing if there is that robust exchange of use between management and players. But do you feel whatever did happen in Argentina has now been settled and you can properly move on? No doubt in my mind. Yeah. No doubt in my mind. There's mention that the scene of players met with Steve after the talk. We do that after every campaign anyway. So I don't really see the problem. Like, there is, we as senior players, part of our job is to challenge Steve. Steve is so open to us giving feedback and having challenge and all that stuff. It's very much a two-way conversation. That was definitely there in Argentina. There was an edge to what we were doing things. There was, you know, plenty going on. But at no stage was it toxic. At no stage was it not about the rugby and getting the best out of the team. And we reviewed it afterwards. We spoke about the environment. We spoke about different ways that we could do scheduling. We spoke about different ways that we could, I don't know, all sorts. You know, there was a full open review. Like, I don't know many organizations in the world that don't review big tournaments and try and make sure you take plenty of learnings from that. That's all that was. Like, this is just, yeah, like, I'm real as I hope you can tell. Like, I'm angry about it. Yeah. And as you say, that will manifest itself in the group getting tighter. Because it's obviously been a difficult year. That goes without saying. These next few weeks were a chance to really park with that, aren't they? Yeah. I'm like, like, yeah. It has been a challenging year. There's been some pretty good stuff in there too. And actually, if you look at the tour as an example, I lost three games. So, I think it wasn't ideal, right? We got down, we went 17-0 down. You know, that was a loss for us that was disappointing. But equally, there were parts of that game where we dominated and looked really good and all that stuff. So, then, okay, what can we do? We can review it. We can get better. Take that into Fiji. We batted Fiji ever since. Like, we did it. And you look at what Fiji then did to other teams, I think. Okay, that's, like, probably not by chance. And then we went to Argentina and won out there in the most hostile environment that I've ever been in. And we showed real character and fight and all the rest of it. Like, there's been plenty to smile about. I think, you know, we then just have the important thing, and I stress this again, is learn as much as we can. Make it a better environment. Make us a better rugby team. Make us a better squad. Make us a better lineup. How do we do that? We review. Open, we're honest, we're transparent with each other. And we move on. environment is brilliant. People are buzzing around the place and then suddenly we get an article on a Friday saying that it's all toxic. I'm like, I don't recognise that. And I haven't recognised that for a long time. This issue of pressure, it's often said, and you've been in sporting environments for most of your adult life. The best coaches take pressure off the players. And it was always, Eddie Jones would say a lot, Warren Gatlin would say a lot, you know, if I'm the centre of attention great, because the players aren't. Is that something that you need to get right in this group? Because when it feels if the pressure is going on, say Steve, I've heard a few players say the pressure can sort of filter through the group. Do you feel extra pressure is pressure a bad thing in that situation? How do you deal with it? Like, I don't, I don't, I don't, again, I don't relate to it filtering through the group. Like, I think you are as professional sportsmen playing at the top level. Like you're going to have to be able to deal with pressure. Like, we've been putting under pressure a lot, you know, I think in moments of difficulty where you're under pressure, I think that's when you learn the most about people. And I think that, you know, we've got the opportunity to step up and show a lot of character in and out of that. Should we get better at that as a team? Absolutely. Like, a 100%. Yes. Can you always get better at that? Yeah, 100%. Like, I, you know, I just think that that's a characteristic that's very much needed to be a top flight international rugby player, your ability to cope with it, your ability to handle pressure well and become throughout it whilst also being able to execute. Yeah. So Sunday, Walla B's is a big one, isn't it? It's massive, mate. Yeah, it's massive. You know, we want to kick this automation series off in the right way. Again, you know, I can't emphasize enough. And I know that we speak about it a lot, but being back at the alien stadium is so important to us. And I am genuinely buzzing for it. I'm genuinely can't wait to get off the bus and see, you know, like tens of thousands of people out there talking to them. So, yeah, it's, it's a really important one for us to start in the right way. We've been really good this week and I have every confidence that we will. We're sure you will. Thank you, Trevor. Appreciate it. Right. So plenty to discuss from that chat with Jamie George. We will have Alex Lo from the Times back on the pod in a sec. But first up, the captain, Marrow Etoji is with us. Marrow is going to start talking about rugby matters, but a new arrival to celebrate a very exciting time in the Etoji household, no doubt. Very much is. Thank you. Very happy to have you. All going well. All going well. Bouncing baby boy. But yeah, he's just been a huge blessing. We're all very grateful. How much is that going to look? You don't need any extra motivation, I imagine. But has it changed the 12 weeks you've, you've had him in terms of how you go about your business? Yeah, I guess when everyone was always telling me the range of emotions you're going to feel. And yeah, it's been a whirlwind. The overwhelming feeling I felt in the immediate aftermath of his birth was a tremendous sense of duty. I felt like my duty to him was significant to help shape him, help provide for him, help him become eventually the boy, the man that he needs to be to prepare for the world. And part of that is setting a good example for him and being someone that I would hope my son would be proud of. And that comes with every day to us. And I guess with integrity is not just on and off, but also how I go about my business, how I prepare, how I work, and ultimately my performances as well. So obviously he's not old enough to be conscious of what I'm doing, but one day he will be. So when he looks back and he reads or watches, or I want him to look back with pride and joy. He will be there Sunday. So he'll even if he doesn't know exactly what's going on, he'll see his old man lead his country out, that's wicked. So that's really really special. And for you being back in this environment, having been rested in the summer has, have you felt anything different about coming back and as it, I suppose, given you a new lease of life, from a rugby point of view, having been out for the previous camp? Yeah, so when you have time away, and particularly for me when I had time away, it almost brings you back to the basics. And I think sometimes with professional sport, you can get lost in the regularity of it. And even though I didn't have a tremendous amount of time away, it was just one campaign, but it makes you appreciate that these moments, makes you appreciate being part of the team, makes you appreciate running out of Twickenham and representing your country. It just made me realise, I don't want to take any of these moments for granted, I want to make every moment matter, I want to make every moment, I want to cherish every moment, make the most out of every moment and give the best account of myself in every moment as well as help the team give the best account of itself as well. We just speak to Jamie George, you said that you guys had read what was published overnight about the camp and you kind of called a meeting to address it. And that's quite unusual for you to do that about an article that's been written, I imagine? Absolutely. Typically speaking, in this game, there's always articles, there's always press speculation. And to some extent, naturally so, because this is a sport with the sport that we want to grow, this is a sport that we want it to be covered, we want eyes on the sport. And it's not the first article to say things that aren't necessarily true or aren't true in this one. But I just felt that with this particular article, it seemed a bit personal, it seemed a bit deliberate, it seemed like it was potentially an attempt to try and derail us or derail Steve. And I just don't recognise what was said in the article. I just don't recognise that as the environment. I don't recognise the depiction of Steve. And we're not going to call a meeting for every article that comes, but otherwise it will be a meeting of the law. But I thought it was important just to address that, because sometimes there's not everyone to see in it, but there would have been conversations about the article. And the most important thing is that we show who we are as a team with our performance on Sunday. Are you comfortable with the relationship then between Steve and you guys as players in particular senior players? Absolutely. Steve was my first forwards coach at England, pretty much by a two week stand in 2015. But he's been my coach at England almost unbroken, give or take a couple of years. And Steve walks very closely with the senior players, his dialogue with the senior players is constant. He's very receptive to feedback, very receptive to how things are doing and ideas and alternative things. So we work very closely with him and I'm very comfortable with how it's going. And how confident are you that the teams are a good place to put out a really strong performance in front of your home fans on Sunday? No, we're as a team and a few of us were talking about this the other day, like we are super pumped to be back at Twickenham. We're super pumped to be back in front of the England fans and we know what they bring to the whole Twickenham Aliens environment. So yeah, we've had a good training week. We've done all the physical stuff now. Now it's just time to go. It's just time to let it loose on Sunday. Well, we should really well. Thanks a lot for time. Thank you very much. Five lives, Robby Union Weekly. Right, Mara Toj and before him, Jamie George. So Alex Lo, England kind of rolling out two of their biggest hitters and two of their most senior men, if not their two most senior men, to say nothing to see here camps in a good place. I think that's really significant that those two guys have stepped forward. I think there's been a sense watching England all year that the leadership group needed to become tighter and I think they've certainly given the impression that there's a back against So we're going to start. a'r gweithioedd yn yw'r gweithioedd yn ymwyr. Mae'r gweithioedd yn ymwyr. Mae'r gweithioedd yn yn ymwyr. Mae'n gweithio, mae'n gweithio, yn gweithio yn gweithio, yn gweithio yn gweithio, yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn gweithio yn o'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r gwa'r Yn yw'n gweithio, yw'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithioedd yn yw'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gwe yng Nghymru'n gyda'r yw'n gwaithio'r gyda'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw'n gwaithio'r yw' yn ymwch ymwch yn ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch y I'm not surprised that this is how England have reacted and they've promised to come out fighting on Sunday and I think they've got to show it now. Yeah, it reminds me of when we were sitting in Verona, wasn't it, in between the Rome game in Italy and the Paris game against France and I asked quite an innocuous question to Oli Chessum who I think has also done an interview today. a ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni'n ni' a'r 80,000, yn ymwyr i'r cymryd o'r 2027, mae'r cymryd i'n gwaith. Mae'r cymryd i'n gwaith ymwyr i'n gwaith ymwyr i'n gwaith ymwyr i'n gwaith ymwyr i'n gwaith. mae'r rwy'n ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ymwch yn ym yw'n gwneud sy'n gwneud yw'n gwaith sy'n gweithio i'n gweithio i'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw'n gweithio yw Mae'r gweithioedd yn ymwyr, mae'r gweithioedd yn ymwyr. ac mae'n gweithio'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio' Yn ymwch yw ymwch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch ywch Mae'r gwaithio i'n gwaithio, mae'n gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaithio'r gwaith a'r yw'r i'r ymwyr i yw'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr i'r ymwyr Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gweithio'r gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. Mae'n gweithio. a'r ffordd. Mae'r ffordd. Mae'r ffordd. Mae'r ffordd. Mae'n iawn i'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio. Mae'r gweithio. Mae'r gweith Mae'r gwaith sydd yng Nghymru ac mae'r gwaith, mae'r gwaith yng Nghymru ac mae'r gwaith yng Nghymru ac mae'r gwaith yng? Mae'r gweithioedd yn gweithioedd yn ymwyr. a'r gwaith ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch ymwch y ac mae'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i'n gwybod i' i'r prysch i'r swerling arall, ac yn ymwmwm. He does have the strongest hand he's had all year for this game. Tom Curry misses out here Steve Bothwick today wasn't able to specify particularly yet how long he might be out for but we know that that's a long That's a long-standing issue and yeah, you know It's almost more I was gonna reference out like Smitch who's had four hammies and you think Whether it's club or country or both you've got to just give Mitchell time with this hammy and then with Tom Curry I know it's been spoken about by England and sail about the managing of him and This is a real process because this isn't any any normal player is it no for a guy started his test Chris so young and has been through so much They just got to be super careful club and country going forward with with someone like Tom Curry when you're dealing with a hip that's Caught him so much grief in the past. Yeah, because he is a different maker You saw the links at the British Irish lines went to to get him in into the team and onto the field for that test With no cartilage in his wrist. Yeah, yeah, he had something ways risk was you needed an operation from start of the tour and played through that Tour play test matches and was unbelievable in those test matches He's an operator who will Hit the required standards in the biggest games and England know that And sail and sail know that and sail Gosh, they need big operators right now, but he is he is a player who's gonna need a lot of managing and he hates everyone talking about it But it's a major operation. He's had and it is I remember seeing him in Where we in Canberra after the the Bromberies game and he was walking back to the the bus 10 days before the first test and He was hobbling out of that stadium and he just think he puts his body through such Punishment that there there's almost Given where we are now in a World Cup year and I'm not I'm not one of those who would go save everyone for the World Cup Test matches a test matches are important, but when you're talking about managing a player Like Tom Curry. There are bigger games England have to play in the next 12 months So you you've got to look after him and for this game as it happens His brother is an ideal replacement. Yes, because he's the best Jackaling seven that England have the genetics go then school Literally, yep, which helps him if you go like you go like there's ever been a like for like like But but but Ben is a better is better. Yeah, it's better over the ball Yeah, yeah, and even though they've often been typecast as I they are right then so cool But they are slightly different. They are slightly different. Yeah You would be more likely to play Tom at six than Ben at six for example. Yeah a bit more direct bit more physical But Ben over the ball is statistically the most successful Jackaling Back row that England have up against the wall of bees who have one of the best in the world at that skill Let's go into the wall of bees camp then John Fisher their assistant coach. Here he is on the pod Five lives Robby Union weekly Right, so we've come across Town to the Australia team hotel in Teddington and come To have coffee with an old friend of the pod who we we caught up with in Brisbane last year John Fisher who's gone from being the reds Coach to now one of the Australia coaches and we're in your backyard as well John great to see you you too much great to be here Surreal Yeah, very surreal very surreal the last time I was here was obviously with England team at the time in 2015 so to come back here family are down the road And this is where I spent the vast majority of my life, so very surreal you're only thirty eight Did you sometimes think wow this is so happened pretty quick to suddenly be a wall of bees coach? Yeah, you know of course it has happened it has happened quick. I think if you'd asked me four or five years ago Would I be in this position? Out of I'd have said there's absolutely no chance of that happening But one thing I have done and I've been had some fantastic mentors in the games of coach is I take my my craft as a coach very seriously and I have just whether I was coaching the under 18s at London Irish in 2018 or the wall of bees now Try to do my very best to coach on a daily basis and improve the players that I'm working with and not really had Any interest really on a five-year plan or what team wanted to coach next or whatever role I wanted to take next and Well, you can't really just coach I don't know I think they don't go to plan. Yeah, and I think to be honest with you mate. What was really? Opening for me as a man and also as a coach professionally was the experience with London Irish being put into administration because London Irish was my childhood club and Like anyone who falls in love with the game at a young age at a grassroots club that grassroots club becomes a a foundation of sorts in your life You know and creates a sensibility. I think for you and then when that If operated overnight It was quite jarring because I thought there's something which is supposed to be a strong foundation or a pillar in your life So when that fell over and all of a sudden I was on the other side of the world with my wife and to the young children I sort of quickly realized that okay, they're probably any any any assumption that there's stability or security in this professional game particularly as a coach It's me a fantasy So I think it just gave me the ability to sit back and go right I'm ready for anything anything's gonna happen. So you do your best every day and we see what we land Yeah, and you've landed Brisbane Reds and now the Australian national team. So so incredible how it's all happened I'd really interested in how It varies from kind of environment to environment given you spoke about starting with the London Irish Academy and You would have come across guys like well Joseph and Henry Arondle and players who have made waves in the international game But dealing with kids there and they're now dealing with the best of the best at international level and guys like Fraser McRide and Rob Valentinian Joseph Swalee proper icons of the sport. That must be quite different Environment to environment dealing with young guys coming through and then guys that have achieved a huge amount of the game Yes Difference certainly and also a lot of similarities You're always dealing I think with players who want to perform to their very best and want to improve continuously And that's your responsibility. I think it's a coach to ensure that it's happening But the margins are obviously finer at this level I think everyone's aware of that. So really you might be when you're coaching an academy player Or an England or 18 player in my previous experience. You might have quite a significant gap that you need to work with the player to fill or to improve on in order to reach their potential Whereas at this level if we use Fraser in example, what is my responsibility or role to him as a player as a coach? There is so much evidence of him performing Consistently and having a massive impact on the game at the highest level. He just won the John Eels medal So I think then you just need to consider as a coach right who do I need to be for him at this point in time and how can I best prepare him to perform? This Sunday at Twickenham and it may not be shying and screaming at him on the field around how he presents the ball It may be paying attention to him in the social or team environment and Ensuring that things are okay with his family situation back in Australia And it's a different challenge and you have to adapt and you just got to pay attention to the people in front of you Weighting the team are out of the moment. I've had seven test matches Fantastic wins notably against the spring box in Perth, but then some disappointing ones along along the way If you know to give you a sort of progress report seven tests in how would you how would you rate yourselves? The performance across the first fifty five sixty minutes against South African team in Perth was The performance that we've been chasing and that we're capable of obviously the last ten fifteen minutes was Was carnage with the you know the ten eleven whatever it was players that we finished with On the field at the time but that was particularly pleasing and a great example of I think where we Want to have the ability to play to as a team Look, I don't think it takes a genius to work out the better slow series was disappointing And I think I'd be lying to you if there wasn't a feeling in the team of frustration anger Bit a bit of bitterness and there's a real desire to not necessarily write that wrong, but that lingers Of course it does and I've seen The way in which that's lingered across the course of how we've prepared this week and it's like any defeat in that way Or just disappointment with performance. I think across the course of certain periods in those two games it creates an edge and This team this Wallaby team is out there very best when they have that edge So that should sound as in good stead And there are some unique challenges of coaching every Top nation or any any nation I imagine you could talk about what England have to deal with and what their positives and Negatives are same with the Ireland system the Scotland system with the Wallaby system It feels if you know we spoke last summer didn't we about the number of great athletes that we can get lost to other Concept sports like League and and Aussie rules and then you have the fact that a lot of Wallaby's are all across the world You've got Hunter by Salmi in Japan unavailable. There's always been an issue But we'll skeletons availability. No, he's injured at the moment You've got Mark now going to assay who is a superstar, but is he going to be available for you all being well I imagine he will become the world cup But that's all something do you know about coming into the job? I imagine it is just been the more you get your feet under the table You realize there's there are certain things to contend with coaching the Aussie team that is unique to Australia Yeah, yeah, of course, of course, and that's the beauty of it, too The Australian way is very different to the English way, which is very different to the Irish way and having an appreciation of that and understanding that and feeding that I think it's something that Les has done particularly well. He understands the Australian psyche. He understands Mae'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud, a ffordd oeddwn i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud yw'r ffordd yn ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. Mae'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. Mae'r sydd y ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. I'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. A ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. A ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. A ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. A ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud i'r ffordd oeddwn gwneud. Ith yw'n ysgwch ddwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r ysgwch i'r y ac mae'n hynny ddod, ac mae'n fawr i'n rhaid o'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod. Mae'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n argynod i'n Ac mae'n hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod. Ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod, ac mae'r hynny ddod. Do you have those lines of communication with back home? I have strong relationships with Richard Hill, with Conroe Shayn, while I wouldn't say that these are people that I'm speaking to on a frequent basis, I've spoken to them in a variety of different ways over the course of the last few years since I've been in Australia. So, look, clearly I have aspirations, because I love the Prem to be back in the Prem at one point, but I have a job to do right now, which without being Cleane Shayn, clearly I'm very focused on, but I love this country and to be back here at some point is certainly part of the plan, if the plan still exists. Yeah, exactly, and that history's taught you that the planning doesn't really work out. Just finally, on Sunday, a lot of you guys will have muscle memory of winning at the Aliens Stadium, and that last cast try from Max Jorgonson two years ago, is one of the great wins in Aussie Rugby history. I know there are lines, tours, and there are world cups, but in terms of a one-off win with the way it was won. So, imagine you're going to Twickenham on Sunday, feeling confident you can do it again. Yeah, of course. We have the game to do it. We have the game to match or intend to negate their strengths. Clearly, we have to perform, but we're very invested in, I think, like I said, writing some wrongs across the course of the last two games that we played, and we've paid particular attention to certain aspects of our game, which we want to improve, which we weren't particularly pleased with how we'd live it in that across the course of that series. The players appreciate the significance of playing at Twickenham and playing in England. It's important to them. Clearly, that rivalry exists. Let's not pretend to ourselves that Australia and England isn't a game with a bit about it, media's. I think they're looking forward to that opportunity. Good stuff. Wish you really well. Thanks, John. Thanks, great. Great to have John Fisher back on the pod. Before we give a quick word on the Wallaby team, some story, you know, coaching at London Irish, Fisher Woods, and then over to the Queensland Reds with Leeds Kiss, and then suddenly at age 38 and the Wallaby set up, and another English coach making big waves abroad, and the question asked there about the RFU keeping tabs on him, really hope someone is doing that, because they're awesome, very talented, young English coaches out there, whether coaching in England or coaching all around the world. Absolutely, and there's a generation of those London Irish Academy players who have John Fisher to thank for the path that he set them on, and he, you know, I think if you think back to the conversations with Eddie Jones, for example, about the importance of coaches going around the world and experiencing different environments, different styles of rugby, different systems and different pressures. John Fisher has done that. He's a really intelligent guy, he's a great bloke, he's big on individual player development relationships, it's been great to watch him flourish from the London Irish Academy out of Australia, and Mae'n iawn i'r oes i'n gweith i'n gwaithio i'n gwaithio i'n gwaithio i'n gwaithio i'n gwaithio Mae'r gweithio'r yng Nghymru yn yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Ym gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Llywodraeth. Yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio. Yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru yn gweithio yng Nghymru. Welcome to the Haunted Library. Join me, Colin Morgan, as I read Frankenstein by Mary Shelley. A story of science and ambition, loneliness and longing, and what it truly means to be human. Listen to the Haunted Library, wherever you get your podcasts, or find us on YouTube.