George Conway: Subpoenas Are Coming

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I'm your host, Tim Miller. Delighted to welcome back to the show my colleague, a lawyer, Bon Vivant, former candidate for Congress and host of the brand new podcast, Psycho Politics, which launched this week. It's George Conway. What's up, man? I've never been called a Bon Vivant before. Really? Yeah, no. I think it might be something you came to late in life. Don't I have to wear a hat to be a Bon Vivant or something like that? Well, you might. Yeah, you might have to. Update the wardrobe a little bit. But I do think that you are, you know, kind of in your whatever we're in now, sixth decade, kind of becoming a Bon Vivant. Some people are Bon Vivants in their 20s, others in their 60s. Seventh decade. Seventh decade. Well, you're looking good. You're looking like you're in your sixth decade, you know. The main topic of Psycho Politics, as you might expect, is the psychosis, the mass onset psychosis that has taken over the White House and expanded out to our country. You wrote this on. The social media site X the other day. I'm just going to say it. I think he will physically make it to January 20, 2029. I strongly doubt he will make it mentally. You also commented that the mentally ill president of the United States gleefully posted a grisly video of a man being killed by a tiger. And then the White House account funded by us reposts it. When will people finally report on his manifest psychiatric disorders? Where do you think we are in the process? I mean, you've been on this beat for like seven years now. And I watched him. Give an answer to the Ken Bone, the famous Ken Bone question in the 2016 Q&A. It was about energy policy. People don't remember this. And I do have to say, Trump's answer sounds like kind of fine, like normal, almost compared to now. I mean, he's talking about EPA policy, clean coal, and he was always Trump. But it is pretty notable. The decline has been constant. But I do think lately it's. Accelerating. And I think it's a function of a bunch of different things. One is these personality types get worse as they get older. I mean, first of all, there is always the cognitive slippage that occurs with any individual as they age. And, you know, he does. His family does have a history of Alzheimer's. I don't think he has quite that. I think his problem is that, you know, he's always been this narcissistic sociopath and a psychopath. And, you know, his ego is. So sensitive with a narcissistic aspect of that. His ego is so sensitive to slights or perceived criticisms or in his own mind, things that, you know, he knows he's not that smart. He knows he had to cheat to get ahead deep down. And I think what happens is he's these narcissists create their own reality that becomes more and more detached from the real reality over time. And that's what we're seeing here as things get worse and worse as he as, you know, gas prices. Go up. And as, as the economy goes down and as he gets more and more criticism, as his poll numbers go down and he's, he's cocooning himself with, you know, he's got Natalie Harp to tell him everything's okay. And there's also the disinhibition. He's got double the Natalie now. It's like double the Natalie, double the phone. Yeah, double. God, I remember it reminds me of the Doublemint Girls. You're too young for that. So I, you know, and then there's this disinhibition as he's getting older. He's just saying whatever. It comes to his mind and his mind was never a steel trap to begin with. It was never organized to begin with in a normal fashion. And I'm just looking at these clips that, that Aysen, the Midas Touch guy and Aaron Rupar are putting out. I mean, it's getting crazier and crazier. And then posting these, the actual video of, of a man in, in North, Northern England who got mauled and mentally unwell man who went into. A tiger enclosure at a zoo park was mauled like, and there's video of it and he posts this like, you know, and then he posts AI video of himself wrestling with a tiger. What is this? I mean, it's, it's sick to begin with. And it's like, I mean, doesn't the guy have a job? He's making less sense than ever. It's scary. And, you know, if you look at the history of people like Trump. Hitler was a psychopath and a, and a delusional one. They, all these megalomaniacs and throughout history, they become more and more attached from reality. And then they get more desperate over time. This is not good. And what I don't understand is it's not just that he's whacked out. It's just that it's, it's also that he's getting worse. And we know from, I mean, because this stuff is out there. It is in any abnormal psychology college class. And it is. Any history class, you know, when you're talking about some of the great tyrants of history, how they become more and more attached from reality. And this guy has nuclear weapons. So it's, it's really scary, actually. I was on the other side of your kind of view on this. We're not, I always thought he was a psychopath, but about the decline, you know, around the 2020 election, right? In the first term, because Trump, there was one of the weird things about Trump that another manifestation of his psychosis was that he didn't look to age as much as the other. Presidents because he didn't like carry the weight of the decisions because he only cares about himself right during the first term. And also, there's all the makeup and, you know, the weave and all that that kind of prevented us from seeing the way that he aged. But like, I'm sorry, just to come back to this, because I encourage people to watch it. We don't play Trump's voice on this show. But the Ken Bone question that I watched this morning, I do think that that now we're seeing a bit of a difference. And you're also you're seeing it with little things like cursing. And I don't have any issues with cursing, right? But he's letting it slip a lot more. This is what you see with older people, too. You know, as they. It's disinhibition. And, you know, you have somebody who basically has few inhibitions to begin with. And I'll do you one more. You know, the Ken Bone thing. If you go back like 30 or 40 years, there's an interview of him when he was in his 30s or 40s of him talking about his real estate projects on from the Today Show. And you can go back and you can find that very easily. And it's like, he's totally, he's totally coherent there. He's still an asshole, but he's totally. But now, you know, the disinhibition. I mean, he's talking about what Senator Huston's ass. And he was talking about Senator Sheehy. And then he had this whole riff about the gay national anthem. And I mean, you know. It's not that great of an ass. I took a look at it. I had a viewer send in a picture. I'm going to take your word for that. I had a viewer send a picture. It was kind of mid. I mean, it's fine. I just it wasn't anything special. He's this is in his head. He was yesterday at a campaign rally and spent nearly five minutes discussing how well he is mentally. He began talking about his cognitive test. cognitive and and he struggles with that word cognitive right uh he added about two syllables to it and he goes on for a while about how hard it was does the whole thing we've all heard over and over again but he really leans in this time about how tough it is to remember the words and so since you are his top critic about his mental acuity i figured we would test you and we would do this right now i'm going to give you five words um we're going to see if you can repeat them immediately after and then at the end of the podcast are you ready it's person woman camera scaramucci the iraq now the iraq is one word it feels like it's two but it's one word the iraq the iraq the iraq the iraq oh but in one word why is that why is that why is that is that a word you don't remember miss south carolina because our press secretary sounded a lot like miss south carolina on her first day where she talked about how such as the american people were concerned about the iraq and she was like why is that why is that why is that is that a word you don't about things such as the iraq so it's it's person woman woman camera person woman camera scaramucci scaramucci the iraq the iraq okay all right i think you can do this yeah i just get to converse with person woman man camera tv but okay yeah it's a little different it's person woman camera scaramucci the iraq all right come back to it let me write it down no you can't write it down it's a cognitive test you have to write it down no person would that be cheating yes person woman man tv is a cognitive test you have to write it down no person would that be cheating yes person No, we curse. We curse. OK. What I thought was most interesting about it was the defense of Rick Grinnell that I saw in some of the news clippings. I don't know whether it was in the original Axios piece because it's paywall. I didn't see that. They said he's a crook. Basically, the defense was, yeah, he's a bad guy and he's a crook, but he's not that stupid. So he's like they have different gradations of crookedness in the White House and they make they make distinctions. So they just don't think he would have done that, even though he would have wanted to do that, which is interesting. And but then at the same time, they don't believe Alina Haba. You know, I'm sure she she knows how to collect money from, you know, her experiences as a parking lot lawyer. I don't know what to make of it at all. I mean, I think it's like it just shows you how bad these people are. They know they're bad. They don't believe Alina. They think Alina could possibly makes this up. And then they say, well, Rick's. And in fairness to Rick, who's a lunatic, Alina originally said it was 11 million, then went back to her husband, came back and said, no, only 5.6. So her story is changing. Her story is changing. But yeah, and I don't understand. It's like, OK, the money went somewhere, right? What account was it transferred to? We should know all that. It's just I mean, but I think I think. Though it's really symptomatic of something. The defense of Rick, though, but going back to that, he's like kind of a lower level crook. I mean, he is involved with the Javanka in the Baltics and some deals that have that have like led to protests out there. It was part of that. It seems like the falling out with Mr. Habba was over some Venezuela drug deals that they were going to do together that fell apart because they're on the wrong side of the coup. And so it's not it doesn't seem to me. Like Rick Grinnell is just kind of earning an honest man's. I don't think very many of them are. I think he's doing the same kind of twink blood injections of Peter Thiel as their faces looking similar. The what? You didn't know that Peter Thiel takes blood transfusions. No, the word. I'm worried that this is another word. Can we add it to the list? Yeah, yeah. But Peter Thiel takes the blood from young gay men. And allegedly, I guess we don't want to be sued. But there have been other reports about this. I'm just reporting other people's reporting that he transfused. He transfuses the blood from the twinks into himself to kind of get the platelets going. Twinks. Yeah, twinks. Not the hairy guys. No, not the bears. No. Bears. And I thought maybe Rick might be doing that. Long story short, it's just he's not, you know, he's not like working a nine to five. No, none of them are. And I think this is sort of an interesting trend that we're seeing here. I mean, it's the way that big cases of corruption. And financial fraud sometimes get broken open. I mean, the problem here is we don't have a Justice Department, at least for the next couple of years, is usually just some serendipity. I mean, there was this big scandal I remember about a plaintiff's lawyer. And it was huge in the legal market like 20 years ago. And the way it got broken was that some guy who was doing business with one of the lawyers at the firm had this art in his bag. And it was stolen. And the girlfriend got, they got drunk and they got in a fight. And the woman told the cops in Cleveland about the art. And then somehow that led to, you know, two more steps to this law firm being completely taken down, a major law firm. And that's, you know, it's, that's like what we're seeing some of that with the Guilfoyles, in the Guilfoyles situation. You're seeing like these, sooner or later, people start blurting out. Stuff because they're pissed off. Yeah. That they feel like they were wrong somehow. It could be something, as you say, it could have maybe, maybe this Alina, Alina Rick thing has something to do with a completely different transaction that we don't know anything about. But once these people start pointing fingers at each other, you know, and Guilfoyle, I mean, we saw that remarkable pod with, with interview with, with Sam and the guy who, I forget his name, Detmer or Detters or whatever. Dieters. Dieters. They've done two now. They're the second. Second interview. I've been pushing for a weekly segment between Sam and Kimberly's sugar daddy. I want you to get, you know, you said you were, you invited Kimberly on your show. I mean, let's get them all. They're going to start pointing fingers at each other because they're not really nice people and they're not really loyal people and they're all just looking for themselves. And sooner or later, they're going to get mad at each other. And, and when daddy's not there to kind of, you know, daddy's not all there anymore to restore discipline, you know, and then you've got to, you know. And you've got, you've got poor Susie Wiles with her daughter and whatever the hell that was. Republic Spurska. She's doing some business in Republic Spurska. I can't even pronounce that. Yeah. Some rumors today Susie might be on the chopping block after the midterms, by the way. Yeah. And all these people have stories to spill. And so I think we're already finding out where this is, this is what happens when, when you're on the way down. And I think we're going to be finding shit out for years. There's a lot of money sloshing around. I should say there's original report by Gawker. And ink that Peter Thiel is very, very interested in young and teenagers blood. And there was a business, a startup that harvested the blood of the young that, that was out there in the late teens that, you know, the 20 teens. But tech crunch then reported that Peter Thiel is not harvesting the blood of the young. So a lot of reporting out there. I just, I just point people to do their own research on that. I do think him and Rick are now have a similar face, which is doesn't feel like it's natural. All right. For all the real ones. If you're out there, been with us for a while, you know how much I love the soul out of office, sparkling bevs, just a little weed Bev is nice on a Friday night, you know, you don't have to worry about the next day regrets you have, if you drink a bottle of wine and, you know, keep it a little loose with your pals. Well, our friends at soul have, uh, now brought some new gummies that make this experience something that we all can share together. Soul's a wellness brand that makes delicious hemp drive, CBD and THC products. They're designed to make feeling good, simple souls, new mood gummies, a precise dose and clean ingredients and formulations designed for predictable effects. 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You know, once there's all this money sloshing around, people see the end in sight, they start to think, I haven't gotten my beak wet enough yet, I need to get mine before this is all over, etc. And that leads us to, you know, kind of what might happen after the midterms, assuming the Democrats take over. I want to play a video for you of Mike Johnson, talking to our old friend, Dana Perino, totally a straight shooter now, about what what he thinks the Democrats will do if they win. If this group took over, heaven forbid, Dana, they would turn every committee of Congress into an investigative body. They'd spend every day investigating the president, the first family, the cabinet, you know, donors to the party, leaders in business and industry, it would roil the markets, and it would empower our enemies around the world at the worst possible time. We just simply can't. And they're running on those very things. Indeed. Don't threaten me with a good time. Wow. Wow. Yeah, great. I hope so. Yeah, that's that's that's actually what Congress is supposed to do. That's Congress's job. That's what the framers of the Constitution intended. And as far as the bullshit about that, this is a national security threat that investigating the corruption of a corrupt government is somehow a national security threat. I mean, our standing in the world has declined because people don't take us seriously anymore because people think we're a banana republic and they're and they're not wrong. They're right. If we are ever to regain our status in the world, we need to actually show that we can that we have a system that can cleanse itself. And we have to start, you know, as soon as humanly possible. We need to start yesterday, but we'll end up starting on January 3rd, 2027. And yeah, I think there has to be investigations all up and down the food chain. And there's just stuff out there just begging to be investigated. You read these stories in ProPublica and The Wall Street Journal. Every I mean, they're just it just the stuff is bleeding out. It's just out there. Throw some. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a good thing. I think it's a good thing. Yeah. Having gone through this before you did on the other side, well, I kind of, you know, as attorney on this sort of stuff, tomorrow's pod, we're going to really kind of dig deep on what a possible oversight agenda could look like. But so I'm just curious for you, like, what do you think is doable? What are the challenges? Who knows to the degree to which this administration will be responsive to subpoenas will be responsive to FOIA. You know, obviously, they'll try to stonewall and delay Trump's class. Classic posture. Like, how do you kind of think about the strategic side of this from the Democrats point of view about what's doable? I think you have to work your way in. There's so many of these transactions by non-state actors, non-governmental actors, and so much corruption out there that I'd start. We're following the money around outside the government. That doesn't mean you don't subpoena and make FOIA requests or whatever from within the government. But let's let's talk about the corruption. Let's talk about who's profiting from this. I mean, I think there's a lot of corruption in this regime. And that, I think, serves two purposes. One is it's not blockable by privilege or not blockable by just the executive saying we're not doing it. And it also just shows the whole it illustrates the whole point that I think did very well in Hungary and that, you know, Senator Ossoff is pushing very well is that this stuff costs us. The corruption, the breakdown of the rule of law, the inability of the government to do what it's supposed to do because, you know, they're acting in the interest of one person and also, you know, his hangers on. And this costs us money. They're profiting while you're paying five dollars and 50 cents a gallon in gasoline. That, I think, is is thematically where these investigations have to go. And I'm perfectly happy. I mean, I think ultimately it should lead to impeachment charges against Trump. And he's going to give us more and more ammunition on that as time goes on. But I'd start with some of these cabinet officers start with start with RFK, start with Blanche, start with any of them. Guys with kids, I would look at Wyckoff, who I hear has kind of been breathing into a paper bag lately. He seems to be nervous. It's just some rumors on the street I've been hearing. And Letnick, I think that you have the nut like kids that are making a lot of money. And so, you know, I had the Hegseth impeachments already on the board. But it seems to me that people who have family members making cash might be a good place to start. Yeah, I agree with that. What do you think about like the challenges? I mean, you know, as JV, I like to say there's no who tweeted about the marshal of the Supreme Court. Don't remember. Back in Trump one. You don't remember that character from Trump one marshal of the Supreme Court? No. We're going to find this. I'm going to effort this. But like, there is no, you know, forcible mechanism to force Trump administration officials or even family members to testify. Right. I mean, I guess Bannon ended up going to jail over this. But like that kind of fight is pretty challenging. It is. It is pretty challenging because you have a Justice Department that's not going to cooperate with any contempt citations. But I think what. You can do is you can make hay out of the fact that people are refusing to testify about these things. You print in, you basically show the predicate. You show the predicate. What, what, why we're asking these questions. Look at this money. You know, you, you, you, you have to show people that there are questions that need to be answered. And then by the fact that these people are not answering the questions, show that they have something to hide, which they really, really do. And I think the Democrats just have to be relentless on this. That's the thing. They just can't just throw up their hands and say, oh, well, they have to be relentless on this because this isn't about politics anymore, although it is about politics because it's about control of the government. It's really about something much more fundamental is whether or not public servants are going to serve the public. This kind of corruption can't be tolerated regardless of, you know, whether there's an R or a D or whether it's Trump or somebody else. And it's just the right thing to do. And I think that's the thing. I think that it has to be taken out of the context of political scoring and political game playing. I mean, there has to be some strategy to it of persuasion so you can reach the people and get them to understand and pay attention to why, why this matters, which is what happened in the Hungarian elections. But it just has to be done just for the sake of the country. So the sake of faith in government, we have to, we have to show that we can be responsive and clean the house, right? The ship use whatever metaphor you want to use. That's what we like. Louise Minch was the one that tweeted about how Trump was going to be arrested by the marshal of the Supreme Court. Yeah, that's, that's not going to happen. Yeah. The Guilfoyle thing, I pose this to JVL and Sarah on the next level. It's got to make, you know, the knickers a little wet of the people who are not as close to the family, you know, who have been doing corrupt acts and getting money, right? If they're like, if he's going to throw Guilfoyle overboard, you know, if I'm the tungsten miner in Kazakhstan, that's got a dirty deal with Don Jr. I got to feel like, Hmm, I don't know. Everybody is expendable. And at the end of the day, um, for Trump, I think people, you know, they deal with him at their risk. And I think there are a lot of people here who are so very much potentially exposed. And I think, you know, what we're going to see is a lot of finger pointing. Yeah. When people get the finger pointed at them, they're going to say, well, you think that's bad. Look at what this one did. Right. And that's part of what, what, what, a, um, you know, what the investigative process needs to gin up people pointing at other people. And we just have to get that dynamic started. I write another sponsor for the real ones. Everybody knows I love the clothes I've got from, from Quince. You know, there are those pieces in your closet you find yourself wearing over and over. 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You got Ken Paxson who's in hiding right now. Like he won't, he's not doing interviews. He's not doing anything. You have Tallarico is at a CNN town hall where he's taking tough questions and to play a little bit of that. But first we have the vice president in Texas and he keeps calling James Tallarico gay and also someone who really wants to look at naked trans children. And like, that's his message in Texas. Like he's a gay man and maybe a furry who's into trans children. I don't know. I mean, that's not really like a, you're not coming from a place of confidence. I don't think if that's your message on Tallarico. Yeah, it's just seems desperate and it's just lunacy. They're just relying. And you see this a little bit in Michigan. You see it also a lot in Michigan, actually. It's just outright bigotry is just being spouted. And it's the vice president. It's like, imagine Al Gore, back in 19, whatever this would be, 98, you know, going out to Texas and being like, you know, for that Republican, who would have been the Republican senators in Texas in 1998? 90, I don't know. Maybe Kay Bailey Hutchinson. Yeah, yeah. Kay Bailey Hutchinson. She might be a lesbian who's looking at kiddie porn. Like, I mean, it's like, you know. It's just crazy, Mr. Couch, by the way. It's just desperation. And what's scary about it is the reason why you do this is because it, it has worked in the past. Trump said it apparently in the last 24, 48 hours where we talked about Johnny going to school and coming home as Jane, like, like that actually happens. It's just lunacy. I mean, and even if you thought this was a problem in some level, transgenderism, it's like the numbers aren't there to make it scary. You're just creating something out of, you know, it's just pure bigotry. And it's just scary. It's just scaring people into things that just don't, I mean, the furries. I mean, what the hell is that? You had, we had, who was talking about furries? Tuberville. Tuberville was worried about how the, the person, the pilots, there are too many furry pirates, pilots. Yeah, and then you've got the thing that sort of bugged the shit out of me the other day was I saw some kind of a, an internet ad for the Rogers campaign in Michigan where they're basically just saying, you know, Abdul is funded by terrorists. It's like, you know, which I responded, which I responded with my act, blue donation receipt to, so I guess I'm a terrorist. I don't know. It is. It is. Phil Graham was the other senator for the 90s. It's taking me a second. It's kind of like that person, woman, camera, Scaramucci, the Iraq. Like it's coming to me. I just need a little coffee. See, now you're cheating because you're, you're, you're, you're now, now you just gave it back to me. Phil Graham and Kay Bailey Hutchison. I didn't even have to write it down. You keep repeating it. You have 25 more minutes you're going to have to remember it for. You make a, you make a little, I don't know. I mean, that's okay. Another reason why this isn't working this time. There are two reasons why this isn't working. We've talked a bunch about how, you know, Trump's keeps stepping on rakes and people's lives have gotten worse since he's gotten in there and costs are higher and he hasn't solved any of the problems that he said he'd solve. And so kind of the trans panic stuff doesn't work as well. Another reason is that Tallarico is just really good at this. And he was on CNN last night. Kudos to him for doing this, by the way. It was a, a collaboration with Jubilee, which I did a Jubilee thing where you sit in the middle and have all the weirdos come to you and say, I mean, it's, it's, it's a risky environment and they bring up a woman and they say that she's like a Republican small business owner, but you, we, you know, the internet figures out very quickly that she's actually like the secretary of the state party and she's a Republican activist who has gone on Fox and something. So it's not like a random person. It's a, so, so Tallarico, cause Paxton won't debate him, is forced to debate a Republican activist woman. And she starts asking him about, you know, his religious beliefs. And this is a little bit longer than we usually play, but I want to play it so you can kind of see how deft he is at handling it. So I think that's led a lot of Christian voters to question the authenticity of your faith. And I wanted to ask you a very direct question. Do you believe that the Bible is the absolute source of truth and God's final authoritative word, even when our culture says otherwise? Yes. And I think it's important to remember that even the early church, the, the, the disciples who actually knew Jesus of Nazareth, the early church we often talk about as a singular body, when in reality it was more like early churches, because there was a lot of disagreement. There was a lot of debate. And that's something that we should be comfortable with. We as Christians, you and I are both members of the body of Christ. You, you are my sister in Christ. And it's okay if you and I have disagreements about our interpretations of scripture or certainly about political and policy topics. That should be encouraged, not discouraged. And we can do that as we're called to do in scripture, do it with love. And so I actually wanna clarify a few of the things that you said, because I know that this has been used in these attack ads all over the state. You know, the first comment about, about God not being defined by gender. When I said that I was being provocative and I want to admit that and come clean about that. But I think what I was saying is actually not controversial theologically. The idea that we can't define God using human categories. Not only did I say that, but the late Charlie Kirk said that. The late Pope Benedict said that. And so, yes, I was doing it maybe in an annoying way. I can admit that. I think we have to be careful using modern cultural terms when talking about God. Sure, I think that is very fair criticism. And I've kind of admitted when, you know, how I've said things in the past have maybe not come across in the right way or, or have upset people. And that's not my intention. And, and so, you know, my goal, I'm a seminary student, as you know. My granddad was a Baptist preacher and I'm following in his footsteps, hopefully going to become a minister one day. And preachers often will say something shocking in a sermon to get your attention. And, and that's something I'm still learning how to do in a responsible way. And so I'm always going to take feedback from my fellow Christians, from my constituents, on, on how to do that in a responsible way where I'm actually communicating what I mean and, and, and not, not muddying the waters. Sure, and I want to quickly get to my second question. You talk a lot about Jesus on the campaign trail and just generally related to your faith. You talk a lot about his love and inclusion and social reform, but I don't hear you mention often his core mission on earth, which was really related to calling out human sin, leading people to repentance. And then of course his ultimate work on the cross through his death and resurrection. Which is the heart of the gospel message. And so I wanted to ask you today, what does Jesus's death and resurrection mean to you personally? Yeah, I actually gave a whole Easter sermon about this. You can find it on, on YouTube and, and I hope people will because I believe the cross is, is the shape of reality. I believe that the cross is at the center of our shared faith. And, and I believe that Easter reminds us that while death is powerful, it is not the final word. Do you believe that Jesus is the only savior for people here on earth? I believe Jesus is the truth, the way, and the light. You know, I, she really wanted to get him. Like she really wanted to get him on like, you don't really love Jesus. You're a fake Christian. You're, and, and he just was very calm, you know? And I think that if you're inclined to dislike him or if you're an evangelical, you know, who is just fully on board team red, like Travica is not going to get you. But I think for a lot of the other, you know, for religious people in Texas, they look at that thing and it's like, you can see why he's been kind of Teflon on these attacks a little bit. - Yeah. He's, he's a very, very skilled politician. And, and I, and I think that often in, in politics, the best way to deal with somebody who's coming right at you and making accusations and attacks is to be nice to them. It's really very, very disarming. And, and to engage them on your terms, which is you're rational and you're thoughtful and that, really is disarming. And, and I think that that that's some, something that's been lost in today's politics. There's, and I think that Tallarico shows a real talent there for being able to handle that kind of situation. I mean, we've gotten too much into the, you know, where, where Trump basically says, take him out, beat him up and all that stuff. And it's like, that's just, people are exhausted by that. And, and Tallarico's, you know, he's showing himself to be a normal human being. - Here's the other thing about why that impresses me. You know, and he's had a few tries at this, we should say, I mean, I asked him about God's dick when we, and I interviewed him a while ago. So, you know, he's, he's been, he's been, you know, had a, had a few swings at this question, but he engages it on the merits. And I, and I do think that just putting on my political strategist hat for a second, like there is some conventional wisdom in democratic circles, like the right thing to do in these situations when they do this gotcha culture war stuff is to just be like, nope, sorry. And then pivot straight to kitchen table issues. Like, they're trying to, you know, they're trying to distract you from the fact that you don't have healthcare. And I like that he doesn't do that. Like, he's like, no, like I'm going to actually, no, I'm going to like, you guys are the crazy ones. Like my, what I was saying was totally in the mainstream. Maybe I was being a little provocative, but let me explain to you what I meant by that. And I feel like that that is important. Like that is, that is authentic. Like that's, I think a way to disarm those attacks more effectively than kind of like the pivoting to healthcare. I thoroughly agree. I mean, I think showing that you're responsive is showing that you're human and showing that you're thoughtful. And particularly when what's being debated is what is sort of the underlying question there in some ways is what does it mean to be a Christian? Well, the Trumpian version of Christianity is a far cry from actual Christianity. And you have Tallarico showing himself, conducting himself with grace and without invective. I mean, that's how a Christian should respond. The point may be lost on some people, but those people aren't going to vote for Tallarico anyway. But the normal people who probably are exhausted with all the spite and the venom, I think it really is something. Yeah. Is to be copied. Another thing I think that we need to have more of is people when they say, yeah, okay, I said that I was wrong. Right. I say stuff. I mean, I'm talking a lot every day and I'm going to make mistakes and I'm going to put things, you know, I might get carried away or I might say something out of, you know, out of anger when I should have been calmer about it. You know, we've gotten so far away from that, particularly with the Republicans, everybody's following the example of Trump. Never admit you're wrong, even when there's, you know, the sky is showing it's blue when you said it was green. Yeah. I hope he wins for a lot of reasons, obviously, but I do. I hope he wins for this reason as a model for kind of how you can do things a little differently. Because I do think he does debunks a lot of the attitudes of how, of the right way to disarm the MAGA lies. Yeah. And I think we're seeing, we're seeing some very interesting styles among this new class of democratic politicians that I think I really like. I mean, we're seeing Abdul El-Sayed. He's a bit like. Yeah. He's a bit like. He's like Tallarico. He's just, he's just confronting the attacks on him with grace and honor. And you see Ossoff, who basically. If you don't want universal health care and you think that the U.S. should be involved more in the Middle East, like that's not your candidate, right? But, but he is a very clear message for people. And I think that, you know, the Democrats have got caught sometimes having some mushy, you know, kind of esoteric messages in other campaigns. So anyway. Yeah. And then you have Ossoff, who I love. He's a little less warm and fuzzy than, than Tallarico and Abdul. And his speech is getting slower and slower, but he just, it's, he's like, I see. He's like a jackhammer. And he is not afraid to call out corruption for what it is. I mean, these are very interesting styles that I think complement each other and I think speak well for the, for the Democratic bench. Yeah. He was great last night on Chris Hayes. I was watching that. I didn't pull any clips from that, but so people can go watch that if they want. But I literally had to look down and I was like, am I watching this on 0.75 speed right now? Because he's just so deliberate in what he's trying to do. But it works. He's just, it really works. Yes. Here's the thing that my compliment for Ossoff is this. He seems like he has the rage that a lot of us have for the corruption and the bigotry, right? Like you can feel the fact that, that it personally upsets him. Yes. The way that they are contaminating our government. And, and I like that. Yeah. It is a cold, slow rage. Slow. Simmering. Simmering. But it's like, it's very, it's very solid. And I think people want someone solid like that. Contempt was the word Sarah used. Contempt. He's got contempt. I got, I got contempt. I got a rash. It's October. And here I am. I'm going to back up again. Enter ChiliPad 2.0, the water-based mattress topper that actually controls your bed temperature from 55 to 115 degrees all night long. ChiliPad 2.0 actively cools or warms your bed using water. ChiliPad uses actively chilled water to pull out the bed. One actually works. I tell you, I got a practice ChiliPad. They sent me one. And I'm a giver. I'm a giver. I'm going to let this person try out the ChiliPad. And he did that. Life changer. Life changing feedback on the ChiliPad 2.0. So if that's you, if you're overheating at night, all I can tell you is 100% A++ feedback from my buddy that tried out the ChiliPad. And if you and your bedmate can't agree on anything this election season, oh boy. That could be terrible. 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Xero's AI can even offer insights to help you make your best move. It's powerful enough for an accountant and simple enough for you. Xero is the all-in-one to get business done. Learn more at Xero.com. You mentioned Michigan. I want to just tie one thing I saw you posting about just this broader effort that how the Republicans are trying to save themselves down here in the last three weeks. They're simultaneously calling the Democrats gay socialists and giving out free money. So that's the Republicans' plan for the homestretch. Those guys are gay socialists and we are giving you checks. Mike Rogers' wife was handing out $10 gas cards at gas stations in Michigan. It's like, oh, thank you, madame. And then the Republicans are giving out $10 gas cards at gas stations in Michigan. So Obamacare reimbursement checks are going out. One of my friends got one. They've got a bunch of kids. So that was like a $2K plus check, a pretty big check. But those checks are going to people who are on Obamacare, but they're wealthy enough to not qualify for subsidies, which is 400% the poverty line. So if you have a family of four, you're only getting those checks if you're making $130,000 a year or more. So they're sending out free checks to the middle, upper middle. Upper middle class. And then go back to the Mrs. Rogers gas card. OK. I mean, all you're doing is highlighting the fact that you can only get two gallons of gasoline with that card. I don't get it. Now, even apart from the question of whether or not it's an inducement to vote, in which case it would be illegal or maybe – I mean, these are the people who are complaining about water being handed out in Georgia when people are waiting in line to vote. During COVID. And this woman is handing out gas cards. Why would you draw attention to the fact that gas is expensive if you're Mike Rogers? It costs $80 to fill up my big-ass truck and you're giving me a $10 card? Like, thanks. Yeah, what is this going to get me? Exactly. Appreciate you, Mrs. Rogers. Maybe you should give me your boat. But you're absolutely right about that. And the socialism, you know, the socialism charge. They love socialism. They do. I mean, there is like, you know, there are like $3. There are like a dozen companies that the United States of America now has – I forget what the number was, but I saw it the other day – that has equity stakes in. You know, we think of Intel, but there are a whole bunch of others. It's like, you know, government ownership of the means of production. What is that? I remember hearing about that sometime in the deep recesses of my seven decades on this earth. And I think they had to work for it. They like socialism in every instance except for – If poor black and brown Americans are getting too much welfare. Like that's the one – that's the one part of the socialism they don't like. Yeah, and Trump is – National socialism. Yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. moi. So I'm the state. And so, you know, I'm the nation. And so it's national socialism. If I do it, it's good. Anyway, I want to talk about some stuff going on on the world stage. Let's relate to the midterms first, and then, you know, kind of tied into just the Ukraine war itself. But there have been a few news items that I was observing, and the way that they might relate to one another. Trump is posting on Twitter again on X, not just on his stupid social media account. Elon, who said a year ago that he was going to start the America Party, and primary anybody that voted for Trump's big bill, is now the biggest donor this midterm to the people that support Trump's agenda, to Republicans, over 300 million. Meanwhile, Trump is trying to finish this illegal drug deal over diesel with Putin, where we buy Putin's diesel, over the objections of a handful of Republicans, even though in this one. And then the Ukraine military has lost access to Starlink, right, as Russia is escalating their attacks on civilians. I don't know. All those stories together make it seem to me like the axis of evil is together again. Like, they might have had some tips, but it seems like Elon and Trump and Putin are all rowing in the same direction right now. Yeah, I mean, absolutely, they are all rowing in the same direction. They've been doing that for a long time. And, I mean, someday we'll get the full and complete explanation for it. But Trump does have this affinity toward dictators because he likes that kind of authority. He likes that kind of power. He likes, he wants to be Kim Jong-un. He wants to be Xi. He wants to be Putin. He views that as that's what power is supposed to be about, where no one brooks you. I don't know what else to say about Elon Musk. I mean, he's an egomaniac. And a megalomaniac in his own right, second now to Trump. But there really is something going along there that we're going to find out about, I think, in years. They just obviously seem like they're coordinating right now. It absolutely is. And at a moment, at a moment in time where, you know, they're reporting that Trump actually is upset that this war isn't ending. Okay. If you want the war to end, they're putting pressure on the wrong side because Ukraine is in it for its life. They're going to fight to the last person. They do not want to be under Russian domination. That is why, you know, they beat back the original invasion in 2022 and why they've been able to, it's really kind of remarkable that this country exists today when it is so outnumbered by the Russia. You know, Russia, they're conscripting people from all over. They're just feeding people into the grist of combat. Like willy nilly. I mean, Russia is the side you should be putting pressure on. And then, you know, this deal where, where he's, he's the diesel deal. It's like, it's not even, it's really a big boon for Putin, but it doesn't really help that. It's not enough diesel to make a difference in prices here in the United States a little bit, maybe, you know, and that problem, of course, was caused by Donald Trump starting a war that he doesn't know how to finish. And it's kind of like the $10 gift card of deals. Right. And then it connects up with, because if you, you know, if you really wanted to get more diesel into the country, you know, that much diesel would be 4% of what we get from Canada. So why not like stop the trade war with Canada? So it just, he has, everything is just on its head and completely irrational. And he's just doing things, you know, almost whimsically, but he's favoring the evil people over the good people. And that goes to his, his psyche, which we started off the show with. He also has floated unfreezing Russian assets. That's the latest as part of trying to get them to do a deal. Or maybe that's not part of getting them trying to do a deal. Maybe he just wants to unfreeze the assets. So, you know, Witkoff and Kushner can, you know, take 10 off the top. What Elon is doing with the Starlink is, I mean, JBL has been on nationalizing SpaceX, which would include Starlink for a while. You know, my, I get instinctually, you know, hostile to that, you know, with my, you know, I get instinctually hostile to that. You know, with my genuine aversion to socialism, but it's a problem. We cannot be in this situation where Elon can, can turn the lights off. I mean, he has blood on his hands. Like people died. Like there's this horrifying picture I saw of this woman under rubble holding her child's hand. Like there are civilians dying in Ukraine in part because they need internet access to be able to identify the Russian jet powered drones that are, you know. That are getting from Iran, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, no, it's absolutely true. And I, I have to say, I think the best arguments for socialism are coming from these people who purport to be defending capitalism from socialism. And I, I don't think it's necessarily socialist to, I mean, it would be to nationalize it, but what's happening here though, is something that actually is consistent with American capital pro-capitalist policy. He's got monopoly power basically over, over this product. And it really isn't a competitor to it. And he's abusing that monopoly power, right? So there, there really ought to be a way of curbing that short of nationalization. The government broke up AT&T long ago. Right, sure. And went after IBM back in the day. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's part of what part of the problem I think we're seeing in modern day America is that there is too much of a concentration of power, both on the economic side, um, witness Skydance, CBS, CNN, and all of the, you know, Silicon, the AI types. And then this consolidation, uh, of power on the political end where you basically have a supine Congress, not acting as a check, uh, on the executive. And it's a, it's a very, very dangerous unholy Alliance and it's affecting American's lives, but it's also affecting the globe. I mean, are the Europeans ever going to trust us again? Are they ever, why would they, why, why, why should they, they should view themselves as an in an Alliance against the United States and the Russian Federation, you know, presuming that, you know, the Democrats don't hold power forever. Who the hell knows what happens to 2029. Like if you're Europe, you're just, you're looking at this and you're like the person that we thought on the Republican side that we could at least work with or deal with would be Marco. Yeah. And he was like a week ago, giving some speech in Athens, you know, talking about like basically attacking the Europeans and their policies. Yeah, no, I, he Marco Rubio is an absolute mystery to me. I mean, he just, well, actually he's not, he's, he's just pursuing power for its own sake, which is what he, what he's doing, which, which is what his arrival JD Vance is doing. I mean, I think a lot of people like to think of Rubio as being somebody who actually knows better and is more principled, but Ruby hasn't been doing a very good job at demonstrating that. Yeah. I don't think so. I think they're the same actually. Yeah. It's October. You, you have the trauma of the New York times and needle. You got the trauma of that and seltzer Paul for 2024. If you're listening to this show, there's a good chance you haven't had a full night sleep since August, maybe longer enter chili pad, 2.0, the water-based mattress topper that actually controls your bed temperature from 55 to 115 degrees all night long. It fits right over what you already have chili pad, 2.0, actively cools or warms your bed using water and water's the key here. Fans just move hot air around chili pad uses actively chilled water to pull heat away from your body. One actually works. It's one of the most efficient natural ways to regulate temperature, which means precise, consistent comfort all night long. I tell you, I got to get a practice chili pad. No, they sent me one and I'm a giver. Okay. I'm a giver. I, my body temperature regulates. Okay. And, uh, he did that life-changer life-changing feedback on the chili pad 2.0. So if that's you, if you're overheating at night, all I can tell you is 100% a plus plus feedback. Speaker 1: From my buddy that tried out the chili pad. And if you and your bedmate can't agree on anything, this election season, oh boy, that could be tough. Dual zones. Bipartisan comfort. You're welcome. Visit www.sleep.me/bullwark to get your chili pad 2.0 for up to 255 bucks off with code bullwark. The special offer is available for listeners of the bullwark daily. Plus it ships free and you can try it risk-free. Speaker 1: For 30 days with flexible payment and financing options. That's sleep.me/bullwark. Speaker 2: This is LeVar Arrington from two pros and a cup of Joe. Let me tell you about zero. That's X E R O zero is a financial management platform that loves giving small business owners the clarity to have the confidence in their numbers. It puts accounting payments, payroll, and analytics. Speaker 1: All in one place. So you always have one clear picture of your business with visual dashboards. Zero makes it easy to understand your cashflow. You do know exactly what's coming in and what's going out so you can make smarter decisions that can help grow your business. All right. Speaking of potential communist assets, I want to kind of leave it with this. We have a new press secretary we mentioned, Natalie's double mint partner, Katie Zakaria. She said she was a lawyer, then questions came up about that, and then she said she was a lawyer in China, and then I was like, okay. So she was an outside counsel to the World Bank in China, even though she never passed the bar. And her husband has had at least, maybe has, clients in North Korea. It's kind of a strange background. We saw a story from the Daily Mail that I don't, I don't, I don't believe that a background check was completed here. Donald Trump chose Katie over the objections of Susie Wiles and others and fast-tracked her. She chose, he chose her on Tuesday. She was briefing by Friday. So I don't, I don't think that's enough time to do a full background check, you know? So that's what's happening with her. I do want to play just a little highlight reel from her, from her first briefing. Then get your take on that. He had a historic one-day war and now we are, have a booming economy. And a great relationship with Venezuela, the idea of not spending evenings with my kid is kids are, is completely unacceptable. So my president, excuse me, my husband, that's a, that's a good one. My husband is out here. Okay. So that's a Chinese lawyer who never passed the bar. Who's now the spokesman for Trump, her husband slash president. Yeah. That, that was quite the Freudian Freudian slip. Um, look, she's obviously not good at even reading stuff. Very better. I hate this comparison between her and her predecessor as, because it seems that it, people said her predecessor was good and it's like, no, no, she was a polished liar. This is just, she's just an unpolished liar. She's not very good. Um, she can't read her notes. She doesn't, and she's a complete wacko. That's the problem with her. I mean, you know, she's, she's peddling, she's peddled conspiracy. Theories. She says that, uh, the COVID vaccine causes mixed miscarriages. She said all sorts of crazy things over the years. Michelle Obama, she said trans. Oh yeah, man is trans. Yeah. No, she said, I mean, the, the list of things that this woman has said that are completely absurd, uh, is pretty long. And I think that's the real problem with her. I don't care that she can't pull it off, you know, pull off the fake bravado and not look down at her notes and just sort of attack the press and do the lying seamlessly. I don't. You know, I don't think she should be criticized for that. I think she should be criticized for being kind of somebody at another hanger on to Trump, another sycophant, who's not going to tell the truth. Who's just going to lie and, and, and simply provide, you know, give, give problem to the reporters. They may like her more because they can eat her up more because they, you know, the reporters love, love, love an easy target. I, and as for the lawyer thing, I don't, I cannot get excited about that. You know, it's the least of her problems. Okay. If somebody has a law degree and has studied, you know, has a JD, I, I, I'm okay with them calling themselves a lawyer as long as they don't represent that they're a practicing lawyer. Outside counsel. Yeah. You know, you know, I mean, I, I clerked for a passed away federal judge who was a law professor at Yale for many years and he never took the bar and he never had a case. His first case was Buckley against Vallejo that he argued when he argued on the side of the ACLU and he had to go take the bar at the age of like 35. You know, he was always a lawyer to my mind. But, but this woman. I don't know if she's on the same level. No, she's not on the same level, but it's also like, you know, I don't want to be criticizing everyone. Okay. That's good. The whole, you know, the whole thing with Abdul, they're, they're, they're attacking Abdul El-Sayed. He's an actual MD. Yeah. No, he's not a licensed physician. No, he doesn't practice medicine, but he's a doctor. Okay. He knows something about, you know, and he's a health, public health expert. And that, that's for purposes of, of what he's running for. That's good enough for me. He's 15, 16. It's more of a doctor than JVL, for example. All right. Psychopolitics. What do we have to come? Do you have any, do you have any teasers for us? How are you feeling? I, you know, I, I, well, we're playing it day by day. And we'll see, I think we're going to have some people talking about the president's lack of mental health soon. I think we're going to have some people talking about the midterms. There's a lot of psychosis out there. We're thrilled to have you back. Yeah. I will say, just, just tweet us. I mean, I had, you know, there were two former podcast partners of mine in that congressional race. So I had some internal poll data and a couple of, so with a couple of weeks out, I was, I already texted Sarah. I was like, we're getting George back, right? Like, I don't want him. I don't want to, you know, we're going to get him back. We're getting me back. So I'm happy that you're back. And as part of the hazing ritual of welcoming you back, we will close by asking you, can you pass the cognitive test? Person, woman, camera, Scaramucci. And I, I, I'm, I'm going to give this last one under protest. Cause I just don't, it's not a word. The Iraq. You did it. That is it. You and the president. You and the president are both passed this high level cognitive test. That's George Conway. Go subscribe right now to psycho politics. Go subscribe. Please take it away from whatever you're doing. Pull your car over on the side of the road, subscribe to psycho politics, and then come back. We appreciate you all very much. George, we'll be seeing you soon. All right, brother. All right. See you later. Bye. All right. Thanks so much to George Conway. We have a double header for you tomorrow. And there's some seriousness. There's some silliness. There's some discussion. There's some discussion of traitors. I hope you enjoy it. We'll see y'all tomorrow. Peace. I would once again, find me a friend, someone to walk with too, too many boys, too small a town feels like I'm always wandering the ground. You call me up. I let it ring. Heartbreaking me. Only one thing got me again. It's the end of the world. So kiss me to death. There's nothing left to decide. Nothing to prove. Nothing to lose. Only time. Go tell me your name. We'll burn our mistakes and just run to the end of the world. The Bulwark Daily is brought to you thanks to the work of lead producer Katie Cooper, associate producer Ansley Skipper, and with video editing by Dante DiCicco, and audio engineering and editing by Jason Brough. Hey, it's Mario Lopez from the All Mario Lopez Daily Podcast. All right. Quick question. You ever notice how some cars just steal the spotlight? Well, that's the 2026 Toyota RAV4. It's got bold standout style, intuitive tech inside. And now. Hybrid power standard, which means efficiency without the need to plug in. So whether you care about looks, smarts, or just everyday practicality, RAV4 brings all of it. If you've been holding out for the right SUV, this is your sign. 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