George Conway’s Single-Issue Congressional Campaign: “Get the F*cker Out”

Aloha Namaste and welcome to Imphaltech-Achon-Halmanek Pukin, honestly joint, and at the end of a week, when the social media emanations of Donald Trump towards Iran, open the fucking straight U-Crazy Bastards, or you'll be living in hell, praise be to Allah, and the whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want it to happen, but it probably will, cause many, many Americans across the ideological spectrum, including notably the farthest reaches of the right and the molten core of the MAGA movement, to question not merely Trump's strategy or temperamental suitability to the office he holds, but his very sanity, it seemed appropriate to have someone on the show today who has been asking those questions and providing definitive declarative and damning answers to them for coming up on a decade now. A man once married to Trump's first campaign manager, and rumored to be Trump's pick to run the Civil Division of the Justice Department back in 2017, who then pulled a sharp 180, co-founding the Lincoln Project, and emerging as one of the most voluble and visible never Trump Republicans in the country, and who has now returned from Washington to New York to run in the Democratic primary to fill the congressional seat being vacated by Jerry Nadler, representing the state's 12th congressional district, which encompasses much of Manhattan, stretching from Chelsea, the flat iron and the stibes in town on its southern border to the tips of the Upper West and Upper East sides on its northern edge. That's right, we're talking here about George Conway. Now, because of George's public profile and his repeat appearances on this show, the tone, tenor, and substance of his congressional campaign will come as no surprise to our listeners, just this morning. In fact, as we were putting this episode to bed, George released a new digital ad reacting to this week's news, playing off the famous Daisy Spot that was run once upon a time against Barry Goldwater. We thought we were past this nightmare, but now we have Trump, an unhinged criminal president threatening war crimes and giving us chaos and skyrocketing energy costs. It has to stop. We must make it stop. I'm George Conway, and I approve this message because we need to fight this psychopath and his vepless Republican Congress for a better future before it's too late. As I said, no surprises there, but for anyone who thinks that Trump's behavior this week should put to rest the canard that it's his critics, not Trump himself, who suffer from Trump derangement syndrome. George's assessment of the president's condition and the precipice over which we find ourselves peering as a result of his occupancy of the Oval Office will likely strike them as more clear-eyed than alarmist. As to George's thoughts about whether a single issue campaign built around a two-part pledge, get the fucker out, and then make sure this never happens again will be enough to get him elected to Congress as well as a pian to his enduring love for Corgis. Well, buckle up because we've got all of that and more on this all new installment of the politics of John Hound that's coming at you in three, two, one. As of this broadcast, the straight-of-our-move is still closed, and President Trump this morning on true social was not mincing words. I mean, truly, just taking it to the next level, quote, "A whole civilization will die tonight, never to be brought back again. I don't want that to happen, but it probably will. I mean, I don't know about you, but I am sick of this shit. I'm sick of it. Can he just behave like a normal human?" I mean, honestly, like the president, "3D, yes, shut up. You can't shut up about that shit. You don't threaten to wipe out an entire civilization. We're talking about civilians just casually in a social media post." So that was Megan Kelly on Tuesday, George, and I will say, "I'm always at two minds about playing clips of Megan on this show, but when I heard that rant, I not only thought, 'Mmm, we gotta play that.' But at least on this issue, and I guess just for this moment, I guess I'm on team Megan." Yeah, no, I think Megan's on our team because we've been saying this now for what, seven, eight years now, make it stop, and that people had the opportunity to make it stop. And I don't know, people like me said, "If you don't make it stop, you're gonna wanna make it stop someday." And that's where we are. So it feels to me like this past week, starting with the Easter Sunday post on True Social by Trump, followed by that post that Megan went ballistic over there, followed by the announcement of a ceasefire with Iran that isn't really a ceasefire at all. Is real, it continues to bomb the shit out of Lebanon. And the opening, the supposed opening of the straight-up hormones that's actually turned into a still mostly closed Iranian toll booth. I think all of that seems to me to signal that we have arrived in sort of a new place, especially Trump's behavior. It's a place that everyone who's been accused of having Trump derangement syndrome like you and me has always feared we'd eventually get to. We're like Trump's derangement is kind of glaring and undeniable, and you just can't not see it. But I wanna start by taking a beat here at the end of a pretty chaotic week and sort of just getting your considered take on where we are in the arc of the Donald Trump story. I think we're right on schedule in a weird sort of way. I have always been arguing and I wrote that 11,000 word piece in the Atlantic in October 2019. Seven years ago, almost right. Almost seven years ago that he is the narcissistic sociopath. Somebody with no conscience, no remorse, he's a pathological liar. He has no compassion for other people, no empathy. Nothing means anything to him other than himself. His own pleasure, his own glory, his own rich, his own wealth. And he would, he managed he doesn't mean anything to him. And I made that point in a lot of different ways in that article. I mean there was that example of him sitting in the Oval Office with some woman from Iraq whose family had been murdered. I forgot what her name was, but she won a Nobel Prize. All he had focused on was the Nobel Prize. He basically told him, Mr. President, they killed my family. And then like a minute later he's asked, well, so what happened to your family or something? What about your parents or something? He goes, Mr. President, they killed them. It didn't mean anything to him. And then you remember one time he was talking about Afghanistan, I think it was. And he says, I don't want to kill 10 million. I mean, you know, I mean, we could we could just blow them up and drop bombs on them. I don't want to kill 10 million, million people. Like he just said it like, as though it was like, I don't want to raise tariffs on chewing gum. It was just this very, very callous and human life doesn't actually mean anything to him because he is a very, very sick man. And if you go through, you know, however you want to do it, you go through books on malignant narcissists and what the psychologist and psychiatrist have written who studied people like Hitler. And if you go through the diagnostic and statistical manual for mental disorders, you know, he is, there are no bot, there is no bottom with this man. So to me, he is getting to the point where he always was going to be, where he is at least threatening that stuff. And I think, you know, you don't, you don't know one moment. If he, I don't think military would obey in order. But he's quite capable of pressing the button on somebody. And this is the way this kind of character works. They end up destroying themselves. And then there's a blast radius. You see it with, and I've been using the Hitler analogy for the long time and taking a lot of shit for it. He is every bit as a moral or immoral, callous, consciousless as the most evil people in history. And I mean, the truth of the matter is, I think a lot of people kind of have known that for a while. Even people like, like, for example, Mitch McConnell, right? Mitch McConnell. January 13, 2020, 2021. Right after the impeachment acquittal, which he engineered, you know, he tried to make up for it by saying, well, there's a criminal law. You know, he puts it on the next administration to deal with it because he didn't have the courage to do it himself. And the courage to lead his people to do it, which they might have. I don't know. There were certainly a lot of people who might have been persuasive. to put him out of business permanently as a somebody who could hold public office. But he said Donald Trump lost the election and then wanted to basically burn everything on the way out. Some language like that and that's what he does. He wants to take, if he's going to go down, he wants to take everyone else with him and to continue the analogy of the worst people in history. It's like the movie downfall, one of its things for a long time. Movie downfall depicts the accurately, quite accurately, the last ten days in the Führer bunker. And one of the things that happens, and this is based upon Albert Speer's autobiography as memoir, that he, Speer was the minister of armaments for the Third Reich. And he was also in charge, but look at, they're put him in charge of basically destroying all the infrastructure in the country so that the Russians and the Western allies couldn't use it. And Speer realized, no, we're going to lose this war and the German people need to eat. And so he disobeyed those orders, the so-called "miro order" that Hitler had given. And in the movie, he comes to tell Hitler he had done that. And Hitler was mad about that. His argument was, well, those people betrayed me, the German people betrayed me. Me, me, me, me. They don't deserve to live. But that's not like what Trump ultimately would believe. If he goes down through impeachment and removal, and if he ultimately feels that he's going to, he wants to stay in office as long as he's alive because he knows he's a criminal, he knows he will be prosecuted. That's why he ran again in 2020. Maggie Hammerman basically said that at one point. He's going to try to do as much damage as possible. And he loves, because of his character, he loves doing damage. These people are sadistic. That's one of the parts of one of the elements of malignant narcissism, is sadism. And they want to control everything. And they want to destroy everything they can't control. So this explains, once you understand that, Trump makes perfect sense. And what he is doing now makes perfect sense. And what you conclude is it's going to get worse. I've been saying this for a long time. It's going to get worse, going to get worse, going to get worse. I said it in 2024 to a friend of mine who's a journalist and she goes, well, I can't imagine how it could be worse. Hello, here we are. And this is the nature of his character. They are people like him are inherent. They don't create. They are inherently destructive. They want to control everything and they want to destroy it. And I said anything they can't control. And that's why he liked the tariffs. It was good tariffs, for example. Why does he like tariffs? He likes tariffs because it makes him feel powerful. He thinks he can do it with a stroke of a pen. And then people come to him and say, sir, sir, please, please, relieve us from these tariffs. We will give you something and we will praise you. And it's the same thing with how we start with war. He's doing this because he wants people to come to Simons. They say, please, sir, don't do this. Don't take Greenland. Don't, you know, don't bomb us. Okay. And I mean, let's leave a part of the anger aspect of it. He's angry about the Epstein files. I think to some extent he wants to distract from them, but that's not really how he thinks. I mean, he doesn't, he's a sociopath and he doesn't. He's impulsive and he, he's, this is his way of striking back at everyone who, who he feels has insulted him, which is just about everybody. So that's why he's going to get worse. And that's why we are where we are. And that's why I say, and it's basically the thrust of my congressional campaign is we have to get rid of him before he does, to limit the blast radius. We can't survive 33 months of what this man is become. That is and will become because he's only going to get worse. We put, look at what he's done in 15 months. Right. So that's, that's the way I look at this. I don't think we have reached a new phase. I think we have simply reached the, you know, the continuing downward slide of someone who has these severe personality disorders and who is growing old and growing more, becoming more threatened and becoming more senile. I think those are all secondary to the fact that he's just fundamentally an amoral, immoral, evil human being. And that's, that's, and well, the only difference is the only thing that the threshold is now to go back to your question and kind of ramble on there. What's different now is more, all of a sudden, new sets of people are starting to figure it out, like mating Kelly, right? MTG, like, even Joe Rogan, who's, you know, himself, associate path. Right. So. I think so. Here's, here's a lot of ways to kind of try to untangle this, right? Or a lot of threads to follow here. Yeah. So there's psychological analysis, your psychological analysis. You call it malignant narcissism. And, you know, I, I don't feel like fully qualified to judge, but, but that seems perfectly plausible to me. Then there's the question of his cognitive decline, you know, which is related, but different, right? There are like clear objective markers, you know, his vocabulary is, is considerably diminished. He's, has, uses fewer words. He uses the same phrases over and over again. There's like the, the, the, the fact that they keep giving him the mocha test, as someone pointed out, some doctor pointed out on TV the other night was like, you don't give people the mocha test over and over again to see if they have dementia. You give them the mocha test over and over again to monitor the extent of the dementia. That's when you start, you do repeated tests when you already have determined that someone has, has dementia and you're trying to measure how much worse it's getting, right? Right. So we have a far off the baseline you're getting at. Absolutely. Right. So we've got the cognitive decline and we've got the psychological descent, right? And both of those are clearly getting worse. But then you have the way those two issues have kind of converged in the context of the conflict in Iran and, and how that conflict and the way that Trump has waged it, like how it kind of undermines his entire whole like no more endless wars, no more stupid wars, no more wars, period. You know, that stands over the past 10 years, you know, which was a kind of core part of his political appeal and especially to his base. And all of that, I think that convergence has set off this extraordinary rupture in Maga or like at least in the Maga media, right? Where, you know, MTG, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, all of them this week were out there screaming 25th Amendment now, like he got to go. And, and then, and then you had Tucker, Tucker Carlson, making a different, but I would say like equally dramatic argument after Trump posted his end of Iranian civilization threat on Tuesday. Unless somebody puts the brakes on right away, we're going to wind up in a place that we can't even imagine. Not just Iran, us and the rest of the world. And so that means, because this is obvious to anyone who's paying any attention that if you work in the White House, we're in the US military. Now it's time to say no, absolutely not and say directly to the president. No case you're thinking about using some weapon of mass destruction is the population of Iran in whose name we liberated Iran. We killed their religious leader for their benefit. Do you remember that? This was last month. Those people who are in direct contact with the president need to say no, I'll resign. I'll do whatever I can do legally to stop this because this is insane. And if given the order, I'm not carrying it out. Figure out the codes on the football yourself. So George, you know, Tucker's been vocally against the Iran War from the start, but, you know, what we just heard there, you know, saying to people in the White House, you know, save us basically. You have to stop him, you know, take the nuclear football away. That kind of takes it to another level and look, you know, for a long time, you and I and everyone else always started our analysis of Trump's political standing with his unbreakable bond with MAGA, you know, with his base, which was reinforced by this amen chorus in MAGA media. And now those people are not just wavering in their support for him. They're calling for his removal from office this week. So that's a new thing. That's a new thing. That's a new thing, right? That's just just how do you read that and not only interpret it because you have followed those people as carefully as most of us in this world have over the course of that time, but also what the implications of that for him are going forward. Well, I mean, look, I mean, I think you're absolutely right. You're describing there has been a mental decline. I don't think that fundamentally accounts for his malevolent But one of the things that does happen with people with this, these personality disorders is they do lose cognitive ability and they become as people do when they get older and potentially have dementia they become more disinhibited. And so the thing is- And also often angrier and also often angrier because rage is a symptom of dementia. - Right, rage. - Absolutely. And so those things are combining with the pre-existing malignant narcissism and which is basically the psychological term for evil to make him more willing to basically tell everyone to go fuck off, including people who support him. And not only that, he is becoming much more detached from reality. I think an argument can be made that he's psychotic at this point. That's what happens sometimes with malignant narcissists. He has lost touch with reality. Now in terms of you know the Tucker Carlson's of the world and the Megan Kelly's of the world and the the right wingers who have supported Trump through all of his mental issues. And remember, when you saw those Fox news emails, they did not think he was all there. They've never thought he was all the- - From the dominion lawsuit. - From the dominion lawsuit and you just set, you know, and remember some of the things that John Hannity basically said, like, you know, this guy's- we got to keep him back on the rails. They have always known that he's unwell. And I think of a very good quote from Ann Coulter in- must have been 2016, 2017 or 2018. She said something like, yes, he's a sociopath, but he's our sociopath. And what's happening now is he no longer serves the purposes that these people wanted him to serve. Not only is he doing things they do not like and justifiably. I mean, we don't- nobody wants forever words. Let's leave apart the overlay of anisemitism that we see in Tucker Carlson, but nobody wants forever words. They are seeing that he is not behaving the way they want him to do and behaving in a way that's sort of fundamentally contrary to what they've been standing for. And so they're done with them. And they already knew. I'm sure that this guy was out of control. They just decided that he was the best object to obtain what they wanted to obtain, which- I mean, mostly, I mean, the agenda of the right has been to destroy because they just- they have this hatred of what happened was the right became just wanting to destroy government, wanting to destroy the people in society that they dislike. But now he's gone farther than they ever imagined and it affects them. It affects their well-being because he's tanking the economy. And it affects their understanding of what they want America to be, which is not what I want it to be, but forever wars. You know, that's a good one. Nobody wants forever wars. So basically, they've realized that they've lost control of him. He's lost control of himself. They've lost control of himself and they're done with him. And this is why- I go back to my- you know, why I decided to do the crazy thing of running for public offices. This was always going to happen. And I think that this is now happening on the farthest breaches of the right. It's going to affect the base and it's going to affect the calculus, the political calculus of, say, Republican senators, okay, who are guided by fear and cowardice. And they have been fearful of Donald Trump, fearful of his retribution for so long, even though they deeply deep down they resent him. Remember all the things that we used to- the blind quotes that we hear about what Mitch McConnell used to say about Trump. No, no, no, you got it wrong. He's not a moron. It's like Rex does that. He's a fucking moron or that quote. You have, you know, Ted Cruz in 2017 after the Indiana promary saying that the man is a, is a, is a papalochipal narcissist. They know all this. And now, but they, they cow-tow to it because they felt they wanted, they viewed their political careers and their political survival to be more significant than any damage that having a crazy man and idiot. Someone they didn't respect. Someone they thought was crazy running the country. And now, if you're a Republican senator, the calculus is changing. The people on the right who, who spin up the people who scream at you at airports in the street, like, you know, the way they screened a, Lindsey Graham in January 2020-2021, those people are no longer going to get upset if you stand up to Trump. Look at MTG. I mean, she could have, you know, I mean, she, maybe she couldn't have won reelection, but she seems much happier person now and people, and, and, and, and, and you're seeing this, this liberation of the far right. And it's going to affect the calculus, the cowardice calculus of Republican senators who are not going to be afraid of doing what they've always wanted to do, which is to get rid of this guy because they think he's God damn idiot and they resent him. Right. So I, I, I, I, this is the key to saying the country right now is, is these cracks need to be exploited. Okay. Um, yeah. Um, there's a lot more to say about this, I think. Um, but we got to take quick breaks. So let's do that. And then we will pick that guy on the other side with the one and only George Conway right after this. When beloved family patriarch Gary Ferris went missing, his family looked everywhere on their property until they came across something horrifying. It's a homicide. Absolutely. The blame game in this family went round and round. This is Bloodesticker, the Ferris wheel. I would don't see how anyone can look at this story and think they were happy. Follow and listen to Bloodesticker, the Ferris wheel on the free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. I don't think that it was good at all to try to negotiate with these people because now they think that they have legitimacy, that they are you know, equal partners at the table and that they are, they are equals to our, to our negotiators here in the United States. And I think that that is a grave mistake. This is a complete and total US defeat. This is an absolute, there is no ambiguity here. It's not debatable. It's not subject to interpretation. We lost decisively. So we did not achieve any of the objectives that we set out to accomplish. And not only did we not achieve a single objective, but we're actually worse off than we were before. We are back. And the voices that we just heard there were Laurel Lumer and Nick Fuentes, two more MAGA influencers, both residents of the like farthest right lunatic fringes. But neither of whom, apparently, agreed with Donald Trump's description of the Orancies Fire as a quote, total and complete victory for the US. And the question that flows out of this George goes back to the argument you were making before the break, right, that the abandonment of Trump by a kind of remarkable number of high profile MAGA personalities in very short order. You know, that will change what you call the cowardice calculus, right, of Republican electives. And I would say the analysis that you offered there like was demonstrably correct in the sense that you know, the dynamic during Trump 1.0 and really like through the whole 10 years of of what we consider the Trump era, you know, because the same dynamic was what allowed him to come back like when he was out of office after January 6. That dynamic was Republican elected officials at the federal level, House and Senate, feared that if Trump turned against them, they would get primaryed. They would lose their seats. There was a whole other discussion that you and I could have about whether these seats are worth as much as the worth are there. Is it really that important to me? I mean, being a country security and your morality and I just I myself with a mirror. I don't get it. You're right. Being a congressman, a member of the House representative strikes me as like, I'd rather be a postal worker. I'd rather be working up to whole booth, but but that's that's a whole separate question. They apparently valued these jobs very, very much. They do. And so they I don't get it. So they said, but they were like, if I turn against Trump, he will turn against me. If he turns against me, a key part of my of my base will turn against me and they will be able to primary me. I will lose my job and that will be the end of my life. Okay, whatever. That's the calculus. They were probably right. They were probably they were right that Trump. Trump could kill them off in a primer, right? And the reason that he could kill them off was because of the loyalty of the mega base to Trump. But that loyalty was like solidified and deepened by these mega media figures, right? Many of them object massive following, right? Tucker Carlson, Megan Kelly, millions of YouTube subscribers. Fox News obviously, millions of viewers. Candace Owens, Nick Fuentes, God help us. Millions of people watching them on Rumble or wherever they are every day. So I think the central question is, what the impact will be of those people turning on Trump, like what the impact will be with actual mega voters? Because we're seeing some signs of erosion in the polling, not just over the war, but over like Epstein and Hyde prices, and this is kind of gathering sense that Trump isn't really on their side, you know, that he sold them a bill of goods, he's like not for them, he's just for out for himself. But the erosion is not so far traumatic. Not yet at least, right? And so I wonder how you see this dynamic playing out as we had towards the midterms. Like is Trump about to hit a tipping point where it all just starts to unravel? And does that happen before or after a big blue wave in November? Like how do you see all this unfolding? Now the way I see all of this unfolding is, there will be a big blue wave. I do believe there will be a solid democratic majority in the House. I think that's almost baked in the cake. And I do think that the Democrats are going to win the Senate because things are going to get worse. And I just, I think that's what's going to happen. But I agree with you, but in the interim, nobody's getting impeached and removed unless he does something completely crazy, which is also possible. Not impossible. Not that he hasn't, not completely crazy beyond the completely crazy. But here are a couple of things that I think are worth bearing in mind. One is to tip this country doesn't require his base to completely dissolve. Right? I mean, there was the rule that I think Rick Wilson came up with, or somebody at the Lincoln Project came up with this kind of like a-- actually, no, it's the ban ban and came up with it in response to talking about the Lincoln Project. And it was like, there was like a 5% line. Or ban and made the point that if Trump lost 5% of support, he'd lose an election. Now, that's not enough for impeachment or removal. But the point is, if you lose enough people on the margins, the calculus changes all around. And I think the calculus changes for a lot of senators who have been elected from even red states, because again, they're running for statewide office. They don't necessarily have-- even if they're-- they don't necessarily have these districts that are completely-- they're not running in house districts that are 90% Republican. That's one factor. Another factor is the polling is going-- and this is a-- this is a guy. I'm not a pollster. I was once married to one. But here's my theory about polling as regards the Trump and a guard with a rod to party loyalty is people say they support Trump because that's their identity. They have decided, I am a Republican because I support Trump. I support Trump because I'm a Republican. This is who I am. It's my identity. And that's why they suppress all the negative things they may learn about Trump. And so their instinct is to say I support Trump. And also, I'll just interject the one other important thing there. It's also that their identity is also who they're against. I mean, the negative partisanship thing is key, because a lot of them suppress their doubts about Trump because they think we're in a culture war. There's MAGA against the terrible left. And I might not love everything about Trump and MAGA, but I hate the left even more. >> Correct. And it's their way of giving the finger to the left, like, sure. >> Right, exactly. >> Yup. >> You smarty pants on TV from New York City aren't going to tell me blah, blah, blah. What to think? I'm not going to wear a mask. I'm not going to get a vaccine. And I'm going to wave my make America grid again, Trump flag, and where my-- >> I'm not wo-- >> You know, I hate Trump, blah, blah, blah. >> Right. >> But it's, you know, so I end up holding when you just ask those questions, people are just, they're like asking how old are you or what, you know, what's your name? It's sort of part of their identity. But you can't-- that's going to-- there are doubts and cracks in there, I believe. And I'm hearing it, you know, you hear it from people talking to, you know, people. I know in New York who have relatives out in Wisconsin or wherever. I mean, Tara Paul Mary did this nice piece the other day, your former-- >> My mega family is starting to crack. >> Correct. I hear it. My girlfriend is a liberal psychologist from Harvard who has, you know, grew up in Wisconsin where it's a mega country and she, you know, she-- they don't have the mega flags out there. Something is happening out there. Of course, if you ask the question, do you support Donald Trump on X, they will say yes. Okay. But it's cracking. And sooner or later, the cycle-- there's a certain psychological binding that has occurred. It's partly is that identity, partly it's the identity of all their friends, partly it's not wanting to be ostracized, you know, and not be leaving the fold. But now these people like the Megan Kelley's and even a Gerogian or a Tucker Carlson, all these people now who are saying Trump has lost it, they're creating a permission structure that is undoing the permission-- other permission structure that Trump had created to basically be-- you know, to basically be callous and so on and so forth. So the permission structures are changing and as that happens, it's going to affect the calculus, I say, of elected representatives from states-- from senators, from states who get where there is, you know, and they're overall red. But there's enough blue and there's enough moderates in there where if it's just-- if that intensity on the far right isn't as great, they're liberated. So what I think is going to happen is that there's a gradual cracking, it's going to keep occurring. I think Trump has so psychologically detached from reality, he's becoming so-- psychonementally dis-inhibited because of, as we point out, the, you know, I mean, may not be dementia, but he's certainly deteriorating. And he's becoming more angry as people-- the things become more threatening to him and as the world is defying him more firstly. Epstein files than the Iranians and the Europeans and he's going to drive more people away and there will be a tipping point. Not to be fair. In 2019, when I started or 2018 or 2019, when I went off the reservation, I thought that a tipping point would occur by 2000. So I've been wrong. Yes. And we also really thought it would happen after January 6th. Correct. And yet it did not. But it's going to happen. Right. It's just the question of how bad it's going to get before it happens. So I want to ask you about one more thing before we turn to your campaign and how it's going, which is the religious angle on all of this because you are a Catholic, I believe. Yes. Right. I guess, you know, I mean, Catholic. Unlike most Catholics. Right. Right. So look, there are two reasons why I'm asking about this, right? And the first is the fact that, you know, what seems to have really triggered some of these big name, brand name, mega folks, even more than the civilizational obliteration thread was the Easter morning post by Trump. Tucker, for example, like went off on Trump from mocking Islam when he wrote praise beat a law. Tucker said to mock other people's faith is to mock the idea of faith itself. And he made this argument about how mocking Islam in a post-trupping the F bomb and threatening to kill civilians on Easter Sunday morning was like mocking Christianity and Christians like Tucker to. And then there's MTG who put up a video later in the day on Easter Sunday responding to Trump's post that morning, which if you haven't heard it, you really, you really should hear it. So, so let's play that. It's number four. I am going to say something that I have never said before. Our president is not a Christian. His words and actions should not be supported by Christians. This is evil. I did not say that. I have defended this man for five years. I voted with him 98% of the time. I stood on stages and at rallies and told millions of people that he was the leader of this country needed and I believed it. But there comes a point where silence is complicity and that point was this morning at 803 AM. Everyone in his administration that claims to be a Christian needs to fall on their knees and beg forgiveness from God, stop worshipping the president and intervene in his madness. I know all of them and I know him. He has gone insane and all of them are complicit. So MTV holding nothing back there. Okay, so look, the second reason that I mentioned your Catholicism, George, was a story that broke this week in the free press about, I can see clearly that I believe the details of this. The story says that Pope Leo, when he gave his state of the world address in January, criticized the Trump administration implicitly, to criticize diplomacy based on force. And after that Cardinal Christoph Pierre, the Pope's ambassador to the US, was holding to the Pentagon for a meeting with the Undersecretary of Defense for policy who like reamed out the Cardinal and reportedly made some kind of obscure historical illusion that like some church officials in Rome took as a threat to use military force by the US against the Vatican and which led the Pope to turn down an invitation from the White House to visit later this year. And I have to say, I mean, I find this entire story both incredible and kind of incredibly shocking, you know. And I know it interests you too because you've been tweeting up a storm about it. I, it interests me obviously as well, but I don't necessarily view it as religious or specifically Catholic or specifically, you know, I view, my view of Trumpism has always been that it is not political and it's not even religious. It's basically about good versus evil. And I, you know, I say that with some trepidation because I think that we are all a mixture of good and bad. And what Trumpism fundamentally relies upon encourages, gives a permission structure for just the worst aspects and elements of human behavior because that is Trump. Trump, there is no redeeming moral value to Donald Trump. He is everything that no matter what your political persuasion is, no matter what your religious persuasion is, he is everything you should or most people will teach their children not to be selfish, heartless, cruel. Inconciderate, hateful. And that's fundamentally what happened here is that he seduced so many people into being their worst selves that it's caused untold destruction to our political system, to our democracy, and fundamentally to the world. I mean, the damage is going to be felt for years, but the truth of the battery is most people unlike Trump are not all good and all bad. Even, and I agree with you about Tucker Carlson, even people like that, there are some, to a lot of people, I mean, there are, they have some semblance of conscience somewhere. And I think what's happening is that Donald Trump is so morally repulsive, so uncaring, so inhuman, so evil that even a lot of the people who were seduced by it, or have taken advantage of his evil, have grifted off his evil, who have encouraged his evil and encouraged others to follow him, he's too much even for them. The thing that I've always found, fully difficult to get my head around, is the degree and the depth of his support among evangelical Christians and hardcore Catholics, who, I think you and I would agree, if you look at Donald Trump, he's the most, the least religious and most deeply irreligious figure that is ever occupied the Oval Office, and certainly in our lifetime, in our living memory. And yet those people have stuck with him, and not just I think, I've always found very unpersuasive, the argument that while they're just into it for getting the judges on the courts, they just want to get dobs overturned. Some of those people who like lead some of those organizations, I'm sure that's true. But the rank and file, I don't think, are like, we're like making that calculus, well, Trump will get us the judges we need. I think on some level, something else is going on. And that's why this part of the rupture is so fascinating to me, because so many of these supposedly religious people were like almost worshipful, or idolatrous kind of towards Trump, right? And now they're not just disagreeing with them on the war or kind of quietly backing away from them. They're like shouting from the rooftops, like, no moss, you're dead to us, dude. And I guess my question is, when you see the MTGs in Tucker Carlson's and these other people all attacking Trump so vehemently and so comprehensively, do you think they're really off the Trump train for good, or like three months from now, are they going to be climbing back on board and pretending like they never left? Look, I think there may be some backsliding among some people. And I think fundamentally he's going to keep pushing them away because he's going to, you know, we don't know what he's going to do something next week or the week after. It's going to be just as bad if not worse than what he did over the past several days and threatening to destroy an entire civilization. And I mean the Easter tweet. He is completely disinhibited at this point. And he is not capable of learning from his mistakes and nobody is willing to tell him to stop because if they tell him to stop, he will tell them to go pound sand and go away and they will be dismissed and they will lose their sinecures or whatever they, you know, whatever they seem to want to have to go into the White House every day or to have access to him. So I do think something fundamental is going on. Maybe somewhat glacial or maybe in fits and starts. And I think we are going to see more of it. And I think as far as to go back to the question of how he was able to co-opt him. It really is. I agree with you. It's one of the most extraordinary things about how people who profess to believe in Jesus Christ, you know, accepted this man who basically is the represents everything that Christ, what would Christ do? Absolutely the opposite of what Donald Trump would do. And not just believing Christ, but put religion in the center of their identity, which is like a, you know, I like that. They define themselves as believers. That's like central to their psychological and emotional makeup. And I think part of it is there is this Manichian mindset or this what psychologists call splitting where people want, they feel the need to believe that something is either all good or all bad and that they are all good and that the people who criticize them, the liberals, whether you know, because they are support abortion rights or because they support. They're telling you you're bad because you have guns or they're telling you whatever it is that they resent. They felt the need to demonize those people in order to make them feel like they were morally superior and more intelligent and better people. And because Donald Trump was so good at channeling anger because he is nothing but pure hate and pure evil, he was so good at channeling these attacks on the left, the people that the right, the far right wanted to demonize because they felt so threatened by them and so diminished by them that he became their champion. And yes, he's not a perfect person. You know, you see them put their hands on Donald Trump. It's like Lord help him and it's like we are none of us. We none of us are perfect people. And so that's how they rationalized it to themselves is that he was an instrument of God who is opposing the people that they have demonized to make themselves feel morally and intellectually and otherwise superior. And that's the pact that they made for their own kind of psychological and it's so divorced from what Christianity is about. It's just stunning to take it to look. that, but that's the psychology of it. And it's a very sick psychology. I mean, you see, I mean, you see, you know, Graham, I mean, what's his name? Franklin Graham. I mean, what, a man of the cloth, are you serious? I mean, he, he, it's, and it's sick, but I do think that for a lot of people, the inherent contradiction, the, the, the, the, the, the, the amount of cognitive dissonance that it takes to maintain the idea that somehow you are a good person and Donald Trump is a good person and everyone else is evil, the amount of cognitive dissonance that's required is increasing. When you see Donald Trump talking about potentially murdering tens of millions of people like it, it's just a, you know, it's, it's, it's like it's nothing. Even if he's not going to do it. Right. So that, that, that the dissonance is too much for some people and that's the nature, that's why people are cracking. That's why people are kind of, they can't do it anymore. And I think he's only going to get worse and this phenomenon is going to increase it and what, all of us people on, who are not involved in that dynamic, we have to do our best to encourage it to continue and accelerate. And that way we do that is by saying, yes, you are right. All right. Welcome to the team of you. Welcome them. There's a place in our church. You know, what you did in the past is between you and your, you know, we're not going to judge you on that because we're not the, we're not the, we're not the great judge of all things. But if you want to, if you agree with me that this is wrong, let's join together and put an end to this. Okay. So we have talked about your status as a practicing Catholic or practicing Catholic light. And I think the time has now come for us to talk about your transformation into a practicing politician. But first we need to sneak in one more quick break. So let's do that and then we will come back and turn our attention to your new location. Conway for Congress. We'll get to that right after this. Since you are announced as the acting attorney general today, when is Pam Bondi's last day on the job? And is this a position that you would like full time? So there's a bunch of questions there. So I am the acting attorney general. I am the acting attorney general. As far as Pam Bondi's last day on the job, I'm the acting attorney general. I'm going with, with her, we're traveling together tomorrow to, to a pre scheduled event. So, so she'll be with me tomorrow. We've, we've been regularly communicating over the past several days for an appropriate transition. She is very much a big supporter of this department like she was last Thursday morning. She remains the same. And and I expect that that will that will continue as to whether or not I want this job. I did not ask for this job. I love working for President Trump. It's the greatest honor of a lifetime. And if President Trump chooses to keep me as acting, that's an honor. If he chooses to nominate me, that's an honor. If he chooses to nominate somebody else and I go back to being the DAG, that's an honor. If he chooses to nominate somebody else and asks me to go do something else, I will say thank you very much. I love you, sir. So that so that was well actually what that was was George Conway, Reacting is the clip that we just played of Todd Blanche at at a DOJ press conference this week. And I will say George was not alone in that reaction to the acting AGs on camera message for his boss. I love you, sir. I believe Joe Scarborough compared it to a Renee Zellweiger in in in Jeremy Guyer. You sir, you can you can you can you complete me. Excuse me while I go throw up. Please do do what you need to do over there. And you know, listen, the reason I played that sound beyond like it's kind of sheer perhaps bomb at us, but but but considerably entertaining entertainment value is like for the sake of contrast, right? I mean, you know, as you know, George like Todd Blanche was once a successful high priced white shoe New York corporate lawyer, you know, former assistant US attorney for the Southern District in a partner at Wilmer Hale and a partner at Codwell Lotter, Wickersham and Taft, you know, who who took on Trump as a client and then went inside the administration to help Trump, you know, wreck the Justice Department. And look George, I mean, you were once on a similar path to the path that Todd Blanche followed, you know, successful high priced white shoe New York corporate lawyer, partner at Wachtell Lippton. But then you went a different way. You left you left the law. And now here you are running for Congress. I just like to I'd like you to to to in a capsule way, try to just give if you're somebody were to say to you, you know, George, what was the road that brought you to running for public office in New York in the Democratic primary and one of the most the bleepest blue congressional districts in the entire country. Jerry Nadler is the retiring incumbent from this district. It is a district that the primary is all New York 12. The primary is all there will be no real Republican opposition. Whoever wins the primary in June, June 23rd, will will be the Congressperson to replace Jerry Nadler. Alex Boris, Michael Lasher and Jack Slashberg, running against you. Those are the four main candidates. How did you get how did you find yourself? Like what's the what's the the three minute version of how George Conway went from what he was when I think I first met you at about like 2015 or so, 2015, 2016 to where you are today, 10 years later. What's the story of that? I think I'm the same person. I've always believed in democracy and the rule of law and truth and fairness and justice. And I think that what all those things left the Republican Party at some point. And also I'm conservative by temperament. Meaning I don't believe in radical change. So when I'm 62 years old, when I was in high school, I was a scoop Jackson Democrat. It's hard to explain to the 30 somethings walking the street here what that was. But you know conservative. Democratic. That's just that conservative Democrat. National security strong America. Yeah. Strong America. Conservative Democrat. Believe me, government helps people. And then you know, after Jimmy Carter, it was just sort of easy to become. I supported John Anderson, I guess, in 1980 before I was able to vote at the age of 17 as a college freshman. I was, I believe in good government. I believe in government that helps people. But I also don't believe that you can have, you know, the government is the do all and end all and can make everything perfect and better, which is why, you know, the 70s produced me as a conservative. And that's sort of what was my identity. I mean, identity and politics is a lot, as we were just worrying about. And today, there's no conservatism in the so-called conservative Republican party. Right. They want to, it's nihilism. It's pure, they want to destroy everything. I look, even if there's a part of the government that I might not have created or might have done something differently, you don't just really nearly destroy it because you wouldn't have done it that way when people depend on it. You try to make it better. You try to create gradual change. And and the today's Republican party isn't conservative. Taxes, these tariffs are taxes. This, it's the owning 10% of intel. None of this is conservative. And to me, these labels no longer mean anything. And the question is what I think is right, which is we need a government that obeys the law. And we need a government where people can rationally discuss solutions to ongoing problems in a rational way, weighing all the alternatives. And working on practical solutions, which fundamentally that's part of what I did as a litigator, as a litigator, you know, you make your arguments and then you settle the case at some point. And you work on given and the given take of that. And it's a cooperative venture. And that's what our government has to be. It has to be a cooperative venture, a conversation between the people and their elected representatives among the people, among their elected representatives. And what today's, what Trumpism does is it wants to destroy all that. And that's why I fundamentally, you know, I feel that we need to get back to a government that's functioning in a rational way, where people appreciate the limits of government, but appreciate that their public officials are working for them and that requires your eradication of Trumpism and that's what I want to make it, you know, you talked about some of my opponents, I want to, I'm 62 years old, I never wanted to do this. Never. If you had asked me last summer, my girl, I'm never fucking running for public office. I said that just a few months ago. I want to do this for a very short period of time because I think I can leave this fight in a way or contribute to this fight in a way that a lot of people don't have the frankly the gumshing to. I have no fucks to give. I'm not afraid of this guy. I don't care. I'm not going to be a queer politician like, you know, I'm not to fall cherry neither, but I'm not going to be here for 30 years. I'd be 92. I just want to do this for a short period of time to make it possible for these, you know, these good people like the ones who are running against to actually do their thing and have a functioning representative government. I think, you know, that's, and that's why I'm doing this. Let me ask you whether this reads as accurate to you. In the course of, you know, there was a, you were a, you know, in 2015, 2016, because of your relationship with Kellyanne and other things, you were seen as being, you know, you were considered to be being bright. There was a possibility you would go into the administration, right? And this is all known, right? None of this controversial. Yeah, no, no. And you've heard it down. And you turn it down and then you very visibly became one of the leading never Trump Republicans in the country, one of the most vocal, one of the most valuable, one of the most outspoken. There's probably all the three words, I mean, the same thing. But you became very, you turned against Trump in a very, very good way. There was a category in our politics, never Trump Republicans. You were one of the leaders. You were involved in various organized efforts. You spoke individually and collectively. And, you know, I would say I fought a good fight and failed to stop him from getting reelected in 2024. Did some damage, you know, maybe constrained him in certain ways, but ultimately he's there, right? And doing what he's doing right now. And at some point in the latter part of last year, 2025, you said you made a decision that you never contemplated making before, which was like, you're essentially your campaign is a perfect extension of what you've spent basically the Trump era doing, which is trying to stop Trump, trying to get him out of office. What was the thing that made you decide to come back to New York and do this thing you said you never wanted to do and would never do? What was the thing that made you think this is how I want to now change and re-channel the same impulses that this is the appropriate vehicle to do that? What was the thing that flipped that switch? The thing that he is truly on the verge of destroying the country and destroying our democracy and destroying everything we should hold dear. And once someone suggested to me the idea of running and once I thought about it, I mean, I'd never be able to live myself if I didn't do it. Because I just don't think enough people have really, I think a lot of people have given up even Democrats. It's like, oh, we can't do it. We have to outlive him. We have to outlast him. We just have to wait out the term. We're on the precipice here. And I don't see, we have to fight. And I don't think people are fighting hard enough. Just it's a compulsion, maybe. But I mean, I have to give it this shot. So your argument on some level is that functionally, that if you win this seat, you can now fight the battle to get Trump out of office from the inside rather than the outside and that your skills as a lawyer, litigator, etc. It will be additive or maybe I want to say, I'm not going to put the word indispensable in your mouth, but you can become a leader of the actual, the need to be impeached. You can become a leader of that a leader of that impeachment effort and you can add something to that that Democrats lack right now, which the ability to actually to actually wage that fight and win it. Is that fair? Yeah, I mean, I think we're in a conjunction with a whole lot of other people like you. Yeah, you ask, yeah, yeah. I think first of all, I have a couple of advantages. I mean, yes, I'm a pretty good, I'm a great lawyer. I'm a very good lawyer. I mean, that's, I don't mean that to be sound egotistical. And I have a lot of experience with a lot of things. I think I'm a lot wiser than I was 10, 20 or 30 years ago. But the other advantage I have is that I'm not doing this for a career. I don't give a fuck. I'm not afraid of going down in flames and taking risks. You know, I'm not the person who's thinking, oh, gosh, I want to be Congress in three or four years and maybe then I run for attorney general this state and maybe then may, oh, god, we great to be governor or senator and who knows, maybe someday, you know, that's how people think. And it's like that diminishes the ability to fight because you're always thinking like, oh, what if, what if I go too far? What if I push too hard? What if I alienate people? I don't care. I don't want this job in a way, right? I mean, you said you'd rather, whatever, whatever you said, you'd rather do something than be a congressman. Well, that's the way I felt. So I have an advantage in that way. And the other advantage I have is precisely because I don't have this leftist, lefty pedigree, even though frankly, you know, I have to confess some more liberal than I probably gave myself credit for my whole life and, you know, maybe I was a closet liberal in a lot of ways that I'm now willing to admit, I can create running room for people who are Democrats who are afraid of taking. There are a lot of Democrats who are basically afraid of going after Trump because they're afraid of being, you know, labeled a lefty. This isn't about left and right anymore. It's about morality. And so I can give them that running room. And the other thing is, I can tell people that it's okay to shape their identity of, you know, being, I have to be anti-woken, anti-Trump, and Trump because this is just my identity. He's like, no, you can be your own human being. You can stand up for what's right and wrong. You don't have to stick to a party label that you just adopted reflexively and haven't been thinking about. Why are all, why are all, you know, why are all hell breaks loose? So I come at this from a different angle. I don't know that I'm indispensable as you, the word you used. But I think I have a unique portfolio of skills and characteristics and background that allow me to open up some channels and push harder than other people would. And do that for a, you know, short period. One term I kind of think, I think of myself as potentially a two-term congressperson. Okay. One is get rid of the fucker. And the second is make sure this shit never happens again to use the blunt language. And then I'm sixthed. So I then I'll be 66 years old and I should be doing, I was a 30 year lawyer in the city. I did quite well for myself. I should be out in Park City right now skiing. And that's what I'm going to do after these four years. But I feel like I have to do this because so much has been given to me and I'm so morally offended by what has happened that I have to do this. And it's my way of giving back to everything. This country has given me the city has given me, given me, made my career. So it's basically a, yeah. So you're basically doing a, this is essentially, I mean, I don't think this is unfair. I think this is a, this is a, or oversimplified when I say this. It's a single issue campaign. It's the biggest issue in our politics, you know, Donald Trump and it's a, in some ways, an existential issue. But you're basically running really on one issue with a very clear focus. I saw, you know, the ad that you ran in the, during the Olympic hockey final. And, and well, I was going to describe it, but instead, you know, we should just, we should just listen to it. Let's, let's play that right now. It's not number six. As America takes the world stage, we see greatness and we feel honor and pride. When we see our president, we feel none of those things. It's a dangerous, delusional, criminal who shreds the rules and rigs the game for himself. I faced off with him before, now I'm ready to take him on in Congress. I'm George Conway and I approve this message because we need to throw Donald Trump out of the game and give hardworking Americans a shot. Okay. Here's the thing about that ad, because our listeners can't see it. the ad features George Conway, kid that. in hockey regalia, you know, skates on, stick in hand, with a slap shot at the end, right in the net. And I kind of say, I feel like I know you break reasonably well, George. I did not know unless there's CGI at work in that ad, you're like, you can handle yourself on the ice. You're like, you can skate. - I'm a good skater. I'm a good skater. I didn't have the soft hands or the size or the strength of the speed to play, you know, division one college hockey. I could have played division three and it would have had a good time, but I went hard. - But you moved smoothly at 62. - Right, yes. - You moved smoothly, you moved smoothly, adroitly, and quickly on the ice. I was impressive, I liked that. But the ad is basically, makes very clear what your campaign is about. It's about this. And I say that that has certain advantages, certain disadvantages. Curious as you, because a lot of voters are obviously very focused, especially in New York, in this district in New York 12, the Upper West side, the Upper East side, Midtown, Manhattan. A lot of people are very focused. A lot of voters are very focused and very focused is under Statesit on Donald Trump in the future of the country. - Right. - As you've been out campaigning, no, but it's not a traditional congressional campaign, which has a portfolio of issues, right? What are you hearing from voters? As you've met them, your early experiences as a campaigner on the stump, are people like, yeah, sure George, we agree with you, that Donald Trump's got to go, but what do you think about healthcare costs? - Yeah, no, it's a terrible. - Yeah, and this is the thing. I don't, yes, you're right in one sense that it's not quite accurate to say it's a single issue campaign. It's kind of like, to go back to, we were talking about Christian energy before, it's like the Holy Trinity, right? It's like, there's one God, but there are three many aspects to it. What I'm trying to explain to people is that whatever their issue is, that they think needs to be addressed. And I agree with them. I find them, we need to do something about the affordability of healthcare, the affordability of groceries, the affordability of gasoline now, the, you know, all sorts of things. Infrastructure, we need to build a gateway project that's out my window in Chelsea and not have it held up because Donald fucking Trump wants to have Penn Station named after him. - We need to deal with AI. We have all kinds of things. - We need to deal with AI, we absolutely, and what I'm telling, absolutely. And what I'm telling people is, let's suppose, I mean, I think we may have, you could get me and AOC and Bernie Sanders and then I don't know, capyhole, I just pick a random bunch of people who have, who fundamentally believe in the object of making these things better, but may have different approaches than may, with some may want more government, some may want more tax incentives, or we could work all of this out. And let's suppose we did, okay? And we had a great bill in Congress. And I would be a co-sponsor of it. Next year, we call it the Everything is Better Act. We, everything in the world that we wanna fix that good people, you know, liberals, but also other people of good faith who understand that there are problems, because you know, conservatives get bankrupted by healthcare costs too. Let's say we were able to work all of that and we had big compromise. Who's gonna sign that fucking bill? Donald Trump? - Right. - No, for me. No, because it's not, what's in it for him? But how do you get him to sign the bill? You tell him, hey, it's actually a crypto deal for your family, okay? - Yeah, right. - Sign it then. - Okay, but then who's gonna enforce that law? What law abiding president is going to enforce the strictures in that law against ICE or to spend this money on such and so? What president is gonna do that? The president who tried to shut down the Department of Education without statutory authority and who's been enjoying how many hundreds of times by federal courts. And my point to the people of the 12th Congressional district of New York is if you want nice things, do you wanna make real progress on the things that we need to make real progress on? This fucker has to go. And now before it's too late. And that's the campaign. Yes, single issue, but yes, but my point is that everything rolls into this. And that is what I'm trying to convey. I'm trying to convey that sense of urgency. And that's it. You got me started. - Are you enjoying yourself? - You know, yes. - You like being a candidate? You like, is this fun? - Actually, yes, I did not think I would. I felt the way you articulated the beginning of the show, oh God, who would ever put themselves through this. But it's fascinating to talk to people. It's fascinating to go into the streets and talk to people and listen to the concerns and get their perspectives. It's actually, you know, I think one of the things we don't do enough in our democracy is talk to other people in a civil way. We silo ourselves looking at our phones. - Yeah. - We have a lot more in common than we should, than separates us. And I've actually come to kind of, I mean, I'm enjoying this. - Well, I know it must have been a big challenge for you 'cause you had to overcome your innate shyness, you know, to go out and put yourself out in public. - Well, you don't think of me as shy, I guess. 'Cause you're making that, I think you're making Asia. I'm actually a shy person. - You know, 'cause remember, like, nobody knew who that was for 50 some odd years of my life. I was, you know, people were surprised that I went out a few years ago and just put myself out there. I didn't go on television for three or four years. I wrote op-ed pieces 'cause I didn't wanna go on TV. And then finally, I couldn't resist going on to going on a showtime with you and my dog Bonnie. And that was, that was. - That was life changing. That was a life changing moment. (laughing) - And I will say, what's the new corgi's name? - His name is Clyde. Oh, actually, we're not doing video. - Clyde is behind you. I can't quite see him back there, so. - I'm about to bring him to the camera. I know your listeners can't see you. - Oh, there he is. Oh, hi, Clyde. - Yeah. - He's a sweet boy. - He's a handsome man. - There he is. - He's a handsome boy. And, you know, I mean, I got him as Bonnie. Bonnie's brother had passed away and we needed a second core because I didn't want to have Bonnie who was approaching 12 or 13 passing. Our kids like not have a dog and be really morose because they really, really are upset by Skipper, the Bonnie's brother dying. And so I decided I'm going to get a corgi, you know, just so that we have still have one. And he provided some very good entertainment for Bonnie for the last year and a half of her life. And now he's, he's three. Now he's coming into his own. - Good boy. - All I would say about all of this, George, there's been very much polling in this race to my knowledge. I think there's, right? It's only been there was one, I think a poll that you're, that your team sponsor, - Yep. - Back in March that had you at, - Yeah, there were two polls that were very similar that had Jack Schlossberg at 20 something, 24, 25. - Right, me at like 16 or so give or take and then had Alex Boris and Michael Asher at 11 and then a 33% undecided. So it's a wide open race. - It's a wide open race. And you'll, I think people will read commentary about this. And you know, Boris and, and, and, and Micah are, are a state assembly men. And, you know, in the old world of politics, so like more qualified, you know, they have the, for more traditional political resume. And, Micah, Asher has been, it's very, you know, former Stafford and Adler and worked for Mike Bloomberg, worked for Governor Hocal and sort of, - Right. - So the Arab parents has been, has been endorsed by Adler and by Bloomberg. You know, Alex Boris has some of these important endorsements. And then there's you and Jack who are more, kind of media candidates in the sense that you remain, the way people know you is by, - Exactly. - is through your media presence. And all I will say for anybody who thinks like that, that somehow the Adler endorsement, or for that matter, the Bloomberg endorsement, somehow means that neither Jack Schlossberg or George Conway is a, a serious contender in this race. I just will point them to the, the dynamics that played out in the Zoramam, I'm Donnie, mayoral race where, all of that establishment, credibility, I put in quotes, credibility, money. And so one of the old guard did nothing to help you. - Yeah. - Your governor, Inter Cuomo, or the incumbent mayor, Eric Adams, did nothing for them to help stave off the challenge from the dynamic media savvy candidate who never run for anything bigger than a lemonade stand. - And who was that woman who got elected, A.O. something, A.O.? - Yes, A.O.C., you know, I just think that-- - What's that? - The cliche, yeah, that. - Right, the notions, I mean, one doesn't want to compare oneself to either, You never see or or or or Zora mom Donnie not just no politically, but because they are spectacularly talented, political, absolutely. But it just points to the notion that a traditional political resume and establishment endorsements ain't what they used to be in the 21st century and the age of Donald Trump. And in the world that we now live in, and Trump, you know, God helped America. Trump is going to be helping you, I think, throughout because as he declines and seems more dangerous and more deranged and more and the stakes of his decline in derangement seem to grow ever higher. You will have a lot of material to channel into your messaging. Make your message seem all the more urgent it seems to me. That's my prediction for the next few months as you had into the primary two months from now. So good luck, dude. >> Appreciate it. >> Hopefully America will still survive. We don't want to lose America just to help the Conway campaign. But no. I'll trade it. I trade me going to Park City and Donald Trump disappearing into, I don't know, going seeking exile in Moscow or something. And that would be a good deal. >> Yeah, right. If Trump were to go to just to say I'm leaving, I'm going to go hang out in a dacha in a very good way. >> As long as he promises never to leave, I'll tell you what we'll do that. >> That'll be the moment when Conway drops out. George, good to see you, man. Thanks for taking all the time. It was really fun. As always, great pleasure. Give Clyde up, rub on the belly for me. >> Absolutely. >> I absolutely will. >> In politics, John Hyman is a Puck podcast in partnership with Odyssey. Thanks again to George Conway for coming back on the show. If you enjoyed this episode of In Politics, please follow us. Share us, review us on the free Odyssey app or wherever you have to be asked in the Splendor of the Puck Esch Universe. I am John Hyman, special correspondent for Puck. To read my stuff along with the reporting and analysis of all my fabulous Puck partners, go to puck.news/jheil. J-H-E-I-L. And subscribe, please. >> Thank you, my colleagues, John Kelly and Ben Landy are executive producers of In Politics. Glory blackpeters are guest wrangling Guru and Bob Tabitor. Is our very own Rick Rubin, Brianina, Steve Albini, and the bomb squad all rolled into one. Flull asleep producing, editing, mixing and mastering the show, all by his loansome and a no-time flat. From all of us to all of you, a little mashup of a pair of late-grates, my mom and Bob Marley. Don't get arrested, don't get dead, and don't give up the fight. [MUSIC]