Speaker 1Yeah. So we heard about this event that was happening in New York. I don't know how, I don't know when you and I might call it a God shot, like where it's like, how did this even come into our path? And it was this storytelling event where you would invite a woman or non-binary person to share a personal story as it relates to a common theme. And that would look like 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s plus. And for me, it felt like, oh, this is a way to bring something that has been instrumental in my recovery to everyday people, non-addicts essentially, right? Which is that shared storytelling. It's not beautiful. It's not a TED talk. It's not. And I tell people all the time when they're coming on the show, I'm like, this is not your opportunity to do a TED talk. You just come tell your story, your truth, say your truth about the theme and the magic will happen.
Speaker 2Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering Out Loud pod or by email at Recovering Out Loud podcast. Recovering Out Loud pod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. So yeah.
Speaker 3Rock and roll, baby.
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, that's the way it is, right? I actually posted on the wall there. It's when you walk in, I posted like looking for, you know, addicts in recovery to come on the podcast. Haven't gotten one call. I thought
Speaker 1for sure. I was like, they're not there yet. You should have put underneath PS I'll save you a seat.
Speaker 2Do you want to know? I should have put the 21 questions maybe on the wall.
Speaker 4No, that's painful.
Speaker 2Thanks so much for coming down guys. I really appreciate it. I loved, I know, I love when people reach out to me and, uh, you know, I'm really interested to hear what you're guys are doing. I heard a little bit about it, but, uh, I, I want to know more about it. You know, we know each other from, from the recovery community, which is now the second time that's happened to me where I had someone in here. I know. Right. And I'm not reaching out to enough people then clearly, but I, you know, uh, another woman came in here and I was like, I know you. And so that's beautiful. You know, it was a small world, this recovery community in Toronto, but it saved my life. So, um, why don't you both introduce yourselves and, uh, give us a little bit about what you're doing. So I'm going to talk a little bit about maybe, um, I don't know, you're, you're in recovery Jen and, but you are not, um, nor does she need it. Yeah. Nor does she need it. Thank you. So just, let's do that. Start with a little introductory and, uh, what, maybe what
Speaker 1mental health means to you today. Oh, wow. Just a casual icebreaker. She's going to drop that. Okay. So my name's Jen Baxendale and I am one of the co-founders and I'm a co-founder of Generation Women Canada. And that is a live show. We hear, we do here in Toronto and is actually starting to expand this year, which is really exciting. And I've been sober from alcohol and drugs, specifically cocaine since 2012. So I just celebrated 13 years of, uh, consecutive recovery. Amazing. Yeah. And so, yeah, we do know each other. I think is how I would describe it, but I probably wouldn't have even known your name necessarily. I'm like, I kind of like saw you around, I'm sure. Cause I see the men, but I tend to stick with the women. So, um, yeah, when I saw you were doing this, I was like, this feels great because there is some motivation for when we started the show that ties into like a lot of the things that I learned in recovery. So that's kind of me in a nutshell over to you. Don't choke.
Speaker 2Speaking in rooms. I love your relationship already. This is great. Well, let's talk about
Speaker 3it. So my name's Kirsten Ryla. Um, Jen and I are actually best friends also. And we met in 2008, seven, I think seven, eight. I had a business. I sold it to the company. She was the VP of, and we immediately looked each other up and down and thought you are fun. Let's hang out. This could work, but Jen was not in recovery. And so while I was drawn to her as a person, we couldn't maintain a friendship because she wasn't the most reliable person.
Speaker 2I can't relate to that at all.
Speaker 3No, no, no. Uh, and the great end of that story is that she became sober and I got the best of both worlds. I got, you know, this amazing, beautiful friendship out of it and, and to celebrate her sobriety along with her. So. I'm not sober, nor do I need to be, thanks for calling that out, but I support and celebrate all of her milestones and medallions. For sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1And you are also my co-producer. That's right. I also co-produce the show.
Speaker 3Generation women.
Speaker 1Yeah. I'm more in the background, although I've been getting on stage a little bit more
Speaker 3to get over my fear of public speaking in front of an audience. And we do this for fun. Like this is a passion project for us. We both have full-time gigs. This is, you know, something we just are incredibly, um, certain needs to happen as an event series because of the community that it celebrates and that it creates.
Speaker 2Awesome. Yeah. Tend to me fever and just tilt it down a little bit. It's just, it's covering your face and I want to see your face or they want to. Stop flirting. They want to see your face. Um, so that's amazing. Um, so you got to see her before.
Speaker 5Oh yeah.
Speaker 2And that's why, so, cause when I was saying you're not in recovery, I was about to say, but you've been touched by addiction, but I can't like confirm or deny that. Right. So now it seems like you do have experience with recovery because you've seen it in your life and you've seen what addiction is all about. Um, can you talk a little bit about like the before and after transition?
Speaker 3Sure. Sure. And I will say my dad was an alcoholic who never went into recovery. Um, yeah, Jen, I mean, I clearly saw that there were fantastic qualities about her. Um, but as fabulous as that was, it came with a lot of challenges because, you know, making plans, being a trustworthy person when it comes to just being reliable, whether it's things you say and things you do. Yeah. Actions by acting words. Wasn't really a thing. That was tough. And it certainly, when we socialized, it was never only about socializing very quickly. Right? Like we'd be like, Hey, let's hang out and do a puzzle. And you'd be like, I just did lines in the washroom.
Speaker 1Yeah. Like I would roll up, like I'm thinking of that specific night and it was like, I was, you know, 10 steps ahead of everybody else and like not matching the energy. Like I was not reading the room.
Speaker 3No, we'd be opening Diet Cokes and she was literally cutting lines in my bathroom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she'd be like, Hey guys, let's party. I'm like, it's like 4:00 PM.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thousand percent. People have stories about like me showing up at. Morning time or end it being like that. Like just always really to the extreme. And I think when I think about those things, it's, it's interesting because I like always wanted to be friends with you and I wanted to be reliable and I didn't necessarily want to be that person. Right. It's like now when I see myself in recovery, like I would love to do a puzzle. I can imagine like. That that kind of is like when you're dealing with an addict versus a non addict, right? Like I've just, and it can show up like even as a recovered person, like I can sh or person in recovery. I don't really like that terminology. I can feel like I'm like, I'm still drinking energy drinks sometimes. And I'm still like, let's do like da, da, da, da, da, da, da, like over scheduling and that. So it's like, I do sometimes feel it, but it's obviously it's not killing me. So it's not nearly what it once was. Although you did bring me a Diet Coke today. I did. We call them fridge cigarettes, a fridge ciggy. When you go, you're like, oh yeah, so dirty. All that aspartame.
Speaker 2That's the second thing I've learned today already. We're not even five minutes in, 10
Speaker 3minutes in. I love it. Listen, I will say the mental health thing is another piece that we, we share that. We absolutely share that. We both have our semi-colon tattoo. If you're familiar with what that is, explain that. Oh, I'm going to ruin this. The semi-colon project was started by lovely woman and I feel horrible that I don't remember her name, but it was really looking at the purpose of a semi-colon in, in grammar and that it means the sentence is not over. And it, um, for people that have this tattoo means they either or are supportive of someone who chose not to commit suicide. Their sentence is your life.
Speaker 1Yeah. So like when you could have chosen to end it, which is like a semi-colon instead, the sentence carried on. Yeah. So that was the semi-colon project. I don't necessarily endorse it or know where it's at today. Like if it's still an active
Speaker 3thing, but we, she unfortunately did. and her life which is very sad but there's a beautiful community around it i've been in places
Speaker 1and yeah like have people notice it like and will like say oh like me too or it's like a very it's
Speaker 2a whole other community yeah yeah i think that's amazing um what a great i just i can relate that so much to like addiction too where it's like you know i when i came into recovery maybe you can relate to this too but it's like i thought my life was over right and i thought it was done i wanted to kill myself many times um i think i think a lot of the time though although i didn't really plan out suicide or or try to take my life yet i always say yet because i don't know what will happen if i go out there again and use um but i would just have scenarios in my head where i'd be like i wouldn't mind if you know this happened or yeah you know totally and that's the place it brings you to so i love that that's amazing it's like the story is not over yet the more relationships to be built the more sunsets and sunrises to see right and it just i love the
Speaker 1terminology of like when it could have ended it carried on and it's not that when it could have ended it got amazing and everything was great you know or like it's like no you just it carried on and that feels like really relative to both of our mental health journeys i'm moved by the fact
Speaker 3that you say yet when you talked about suicide because clearly that's not cool i'm medicated i feel really good um it doesn't mean it's gone away but at one point someone said to me promise me you won't do anything without talking to me first and so and they made me shake on it so i'm going to do that to you right now so promise me you won't do anything
Speaker 2shake on it i like that better shake get over here i promise you yes i promise you thank you i love that that's great everyone heard that yeah now it's all over the internet i'm like oh my god i'm on the internet so you're you're accountable now forever um but no i think it's important i mean anytime i've ever gone back out and relapsed it's because i missed that step that important step of telling somebody about my grand ideas and plans and um you know i was mentioning to you that the eight years like yeah my life was amazing it was incredible i never thought i would relapse ever that was not a part of my story in my mind right and that's why i say yet today because i have all i have is today right i know today i don't think about suicide today i don't think about the drugs right now and uh if i can get to bed sober and in a good mind state or not even in a good mind state if i can get to bed sober like that's a win for me today yeah well the other
Speaker 3thing about the after is you did say that your friendship group changed oh yeah and then i got more of you to me so yeah selfishly worked out really well but you talked a lot about that yeah people didn't know how to socialize with you right so i was it's gotten better because now there are it's more there are more activities for sober people it's actually become quite a thing right sober parties sober this and daytime parties
Speaker 1but 13 years ago no 13 years ago we were still doing beer at yoga and i was like what does that look like that sounds awful but listen i didn't go to it i was too drunk yeah like how do people make it there no but it was like it was so ingrained in everything and like i was like going out was like not we're gonna drink we're gonna get annihilated it was very much that like the 2000s culture and um yeah there was that i was getting a diet coke i have a fridge ciggy or um red bull a red bull or water right and now like i could i love when you do your like reviews of the different like whether it's non-elks or it's like different beverages it's exciting and like kirsten's such an advocate for me like when we go out for dinner and like we look at the menu because we travel a lot together she'll be like not really not much here like yeah that's a little x in this but other times it's like oh wait until you see like it's right there in the front right and so you know going back to that the friendship and us i guess reconnecting i don't even know like coming back together i guess her meeting the real you maybe yeah even that was she was one of the first people that i told that i was trying to get sober when i um sought sobriety the first time because i had i did have one relapse i um didn't tell anyone at first because i didn't want to be accountable right if once i tell people that i'm doing this um this thing and but i did you know i told her i actually remember we were at spice root we were on the patio like you know when you have that moment like the same way i remember my first drink and the music that was playing and the sound of the room like i can go back there which is like a good indicator that you might have a problem spoiler alert not many people remember the moment they drank and the song they were playing for the first time so anyway yeah telling her was like that step of accountability you know saying my truth about what was going on because a lot of what was going on around me looked the same right i was 27 i think when i first um came into aa and There wasn't a ton. Now there's way more. And I love that. I love that for the community. And there wasn't a lot to do. There really wasn't. Like there was no sober community. There was like maybe dry January, but I don't even think so. I feel like that came after.
Speaker 3Yeah. And with all these new kind of menu options and this new kind of approach towards it, it feels like as someone who is a supporter of a sober person, I can talk about it more freely. I think before, yeah, 13 years ago, if you weren't drinking, people were still pressuring you and asking why. Yeah. And that's become more normalized. Even today when we came in, I asked you, is it rude to ask how much time someone has? Yeah. I don't know. So I, you know, she is educating me as well. I know it's your own experience, but on generally what the community is, feels okay being talked about or asked about.
Speaker 1Yeah. And there's a lot of that. I'm not sure what you have experienced around like, like breaking your anonymity, so to speak. Because even for me, I've always been open. I've always had the luxury, as I say, to be able to tell the career that I was in for a very long time. Everyone there knew I was in recovery. Everyone there knew I had a job. My family, my, you know, the friend group that I started building back up, but it wasn't very common. Like a lot of people weren't necessarily talking about it. And I talk about it all of the time because I think it is so important that we come out of the dark basement and actually say, hey, like addiction can look like this. It can look like me in my late twenties. It can look like someone with a career like it does not. What was originally shown on TV. I think it's getting better now, like the representation of, of addiction and recovery, but it wasn't like that then. And it's been a really important part of my journey to actually be open. And I've actually been able to have people reach out to me and say like, hey, I'm struggling or my sister struggling, like, because of my openness, it is open that communication to allow me to like help other people. And I've actually been able to have people reach out to me and say like, hey, I'm struggling or my sister struggling, like because of my openness, it is open that communication to allow me to like help other people. As well in a totally different way. That's like outside of traditional recovery rooms.
Speaker 2Absolutely. And that's the best part, right? When you get those messages, like it's the greatest thing ever. Yeah, that happens to me a lot. So I, it's interesting that you bring that up because I made a switch this time around where I had almost a double life before where I was, you know, sober, thriving eight years. And then I went to work and I didn't talk about it at all. Right. And I'll never forget this. I remember I was going up. I remember I was going up for lunch one time with the guys in my office and I had the recovery literature in the back seat. That's a, it looks like a Bible. And the guys got in the truck, the car and nobody said anything. But after I noticed after when we got out, I left it in the back. I had a panic attack. Like I literally, I was like, I might get fired. All these thoughts started going through my head. And so to your point, oh my God, is it so much easier to live life when you just don't give a shit about what other people think, whether you're in recovery or not, because for a long time I was I think I was a little bit ashamed of it, even though I was showing up to meetings and I was like, this is great. I love being sober. No, I'll tell everybody. Now I struggle with the thing I struggle with now is, and I'm learning this in school. I'm back in school for social work. And, uh, they, she talked, they, one of my professors talks about just how much you tell your story, like, and, and, and what moments, because I've definitely overshared before. Right. And people have been like smoking meth.
Speaker 1Yeah. I remember telling a story like, you know, when you have like T threes and you like cut them up and you rail them. And like, I was like, oh, not a safe space. Everyone was like, but it's true. Right. And the duplicity was what I struggled with. Actually what you're talking about. I was like, you're coming in, you know, my relationship with 12 step program is, is probably not your traditional 12 step necessarily. So I will say that. And to each their own. And I'm very much a believer in like, whatever your recovery looks like is what it looks like. And there are many paths to recovery. It is not just in 12 step. It is not just in rehab. I don't know. I didn't go to rehab. But it is for me, I was living such a double life. Like I was moving person to person. I was, I don't even know if I could call it a double life, but if I'm with you, I'm acting one way. Shape shifting. if I'm with you I'm acting another way and so then to come into 12 step and have this like you know the importance of anonymity stressed it was a very I struggled with it because I'm like okay so I can't I shouldn't tell people or I should or like if I see you on the street like isn't that still kind of a dishonesty like if I'm not and I remember a switch like there came a point where I'm like oh I'm an addict I'm an addict I'm an addict like woe is me kind of and I was like no I'm a fucking sober addict like I'm I'm a badass like I overcame something and I am out here like living my best sober life and I'm not gonna not talk about it I'm not gonna say oh hey you're an AA too no but I am going to talk about the fact that I'm an addict and what it looked like and not downplay it or hide about it and if someone pressures not pressures me but like prompts me to know more then I'm not gonna talk about it and I'm not gonna talk about it I might say here's one of the tools that I use which is you know 12-step programming yeah yeah
Speaker 2and what that looks like and how you can access it yeah exactly yeah that's a good point um okay I want to talk about uh the generation women uh some more how did that start and so where did it come like where did it start and where is it at today tomorrow next week what's and what's on the
Speaker 3horizon okay yeah you want to start yeah we always go to events and love attending events we noticed that there weren't a lot of events available to us that reflected either our age our interests there were some kind of event series where people would speak but we found that they were very first world problem type scenarios and there was never anyone
Speaker 1older yeah at all like older than like 30 even yeah mid 30 at the at the max yeah combine that with your experience in recovery yeah so we heard about this event that was happening in New York I don't know how I don't know when you and I might call it a god shot like where it's like how did this even come into our path and um it was this storytelling event where you would invite a woman or non-binary person to share a personal story as it relates to a common theme and that would look like 20s 30s 40s 50s 60s 70s plus and for me it felt like oh this is a way to bring something that has been instrumental in my recovery to everyday people non-addicts essentially right which is that shared storytelling it's not beautiful it's not in it it's not a ted talk it's not it's and I tell people all the time when they're coming on the show I'm like this is not your opportunity to do a ted talk you just come tell your story your truth say your truth about the theme and the magic will happen right and that's what happens in in 12 steps for distance traditionally right it's like people it could be anyone it could be any age it could be any anything right and they tell their story or portion of their story or they sit you know one-on-one and they share their experience strength and hope on addiction recovery how to live sober like all of those things how they work the steps whatever and I had women who were like very young you know people either sponsees or or even just every like other fellows who were helping me and then I had people as you know 80s 90s like there are people still telling their story in their late 90s right here in Toronto and uh they were helping me and they were my friends like that was the thing too is like I would get these looks sometimes when I would be out with them whether it was like just going for coffee after a meeting or like with sponsors or other fellows that I just was like looking for advice from and um you could see them being like well that's that's not her mom and that's not her grandma like or it's not her little sister or whatever like who is that person I'm like that's my friend like that person helped me get through major things right like you do so much growing up when you get sober and so bringing it back to the show I'm like this is like that right this is where we go and we will share the story and instead of talking about sobriety or addiction we're going to talk about you know your bucket list or wise words that someone shared with you um stories about the female body what else those are just like a few of them right and and you go on this journey right and you go you have your team 20s and they're always like vibrant and full of hope and a little bit selfish and ego and kind of and then as you go on and it starts to shed and these people become just so authentically themselves I don't know how old you are but like when you turn 40 as a woman it's just like it's a really like a tsn turning point where you're just like I could like no don't care like I can think of random that I was doing when I was younger like going to the gym and like being worried about how I looked or like holding in my pee so that I don't like go to the bathroom as if someone's gonna like like a guy is gonna like know that I went pee it's just like bananas and so it was I don't know it just it's just you go on this and by 40s it's like yes and and by the time you hit 70s they take the house down it is just like the show is it does really pull from the community and fellowship aspect that I learned in recovery spaces it is a safe space it is inviting like we want you to swear we want you to make a mistake if you cry that's okay you know and and what somebody's story that means everything to me that I'm like wow like that is somebody else's it wasn't really and that's that is it right when I go to um like a meeting I'm not expecting that it's always going to be amazing and that I'm always going to like it um and so that became for me one of my driving forces is like the importance of intergenerational storytelling the importance of hearing from all ages and the importance of sharing everyday stories and looking to the you know to the youth and also to people who are older than yourself like outside of that bracket I think once you step outside of like 10 years it tends to be like why like who's this friend it's like no they're my friend why do why are we confined to these like binary positions where I can only be friends with people who are like 40
Speaker 3and women's voices elevating women's voices giving them literally the microphone to speak in front of a crowd they're not professionals these are people that we meet in everyday life people refer other women to us and we don't want them to be rehearsed yeah um they really can't screw it up they're telling their own story and it's very personal we've been doing this for almost three years yeah we do them four times a year and so in October we're going to be doing we have our third anniversary and what's exciting is one year ago we had team 20s from our first show a really amazing woman named Chelsea and she asked us to kind of co-host with her a dedicated show in honor of truth and reconciliation with a an all-indigenous lineup and we are doing that again this year so that has now become something that we hope to do annually yep and then we've also partnered with the Canadian Women's Foundation to do a show in Calgary and that's going to happen in October so it feels fantastic that we're able to provide a platform for more women to tell stories and more opportunities for people to listen to intergenerational um you know women again or people that represent as women whoever you want to phrase that yeah um it's it's pretty exciting it's pretty exciting and we also at our shows we have a marketplace yeah so we'll bring in female-owned small businesses and they can come and sell their wares yep for no cost like we invite them just to like come and participate yep we have um food and beverage we recently got sponsored by Collective Arts yeah so they'll um have their amazing selection of non-elks which they are really great at yeah and we have ASL live interpretation at every show just to make it as inclusive as possible we heard that um the deaf community rarely have events to go to and so we want it to be one of them and we're still waiting for that audience to really come out I feel like they need to know more that it's there for them but
Speaker 2we're going to keep doing it yeah amazing and where do you where do you see it going like where do you want it to go what's next on the horizon like that's big the Calgary and and spreading out but uh what's kind of the vision I guess just touching as many people as possible or yeah I
Speaker 1think just having people be heard and and the importance of storytelling and and the intergenerational aspect of it like it's one thing for us three to sit and chat but like it's another to bring in you know someone who's a lot younger and someone who might be a lot older and to actually realize a we're not that different and we have no idea what stories people are carrying with them right it's not unlike why I wanted to be like hey I'm an addict right like I am a successful woman running a marketing agency I for all intents and and purposes, like look put together and I'm burning my life to the ground right it's like it doesn't have to look it can look that way but it can also look like that and so the shared stories of like going I would have looked at that person on the TTC and written like maybe that's not now I would but most people might be like oh that Gen Z or like you know on their phone or whatever and meanwhile they're like texting a doctor while they're recovering from stage four cancer right or like somebody in their 90s like our first show that we went to we went to the New York show and the team 80s I think at the time told the story while playing a ukulele about the orgies that she went to in Paris in the like 1930s or 40s I don't even know do them the math ain't math and but sometimes and you would like this sweet little lady just strumming away about her orgy right and it tends to be sometimes the most outrageous which is again not dissimilar from 12 step like people with long-term cancer are not dissimilar from 12 step people with long-term recovery are like more likely to just like drop some story that you're just like what you did what and so that's what we love about it how about the woman at our show and
Speaker 3I don't remember what team she was but her first journalism assignment was John Lennon's assassination so she was flown to New York and she was there she interviewed Elvis yeah just like things that
Speaker 1you just it's just it's like a we always say it's like a big hug like when you come to the show it just feels like wow like look at us like look at humanity you can look back right at team 20s and remember being and feeling you know as they do and look to the future and be like god I'll tell this like one story so predominantly my team 70s sometimes I do a lot of the speaker seeking and engage with them and I'm the only one that hears the stories before they go on and so um they will sometimes just call me and be like yeah I'm uh I'm not gonna be able to do the show good luck and I'm like uh okay like bye bye and I want to be like you've been on the website you and but then there's this part of me that's just like the lack of apology that they're just like yeah I'm not gonna be able to do it the lack of an excuse right as women I feel like we're like oh my god I'm not gonna be able to come but I'm really sorry like I gotta do this thing it's like no like no is a full response and saying no I'm not gonna be able to make it I don't care that I'm on your website I don't care that I've done these things she obviously has something else going on who knows what it is it's really none of my business I don't need a reason yeah and so as much as it's annoying I also am like wow what is that like to just be like nope sorry yeah like imagine imagine I just like texted you or sent you a message and was like yeah we're not your reaction what's your reaction you're gonna be like what the like why would that person do that
Speaker 2my first reaction is she saw one of my videos and got offended by it that's that's my first reaction um I was I was uh I'm in talks with you know talking about partnership I'm talking to a treatment center right now and they haven't answered me in like I don't know two days
Speaker 4so they hate you and they don't want to they don't want to do anything with you
Speaker 2we're the same my my first thought is like they got a like I crossed the line so and then I'm like dude I just shut up just take a breath people are busy I don't need a reason and they don't need to give you a reason right totally people are allowed to know as a full sentence I'm learning that too and as of late um yeah one of the things that happened to me when I started this podcast is I'm like I'm learning so much right and I never thought I'd be learning so much about oh just every not even just recovery just everything like I had so many amazing women in here you're both of you included that are just blowing me away with some of the like things that they say and the power and the that they've been through oh my god right and to your point it's like if I saw you just walking down the street never would have thought that you were a you know sex trafficked or whatever right like oh just thank you for sharing that right and uh I think the other thing too is when people share openly like that specifically with the orgy story and they're able to laugh about it it gives women space gives everyone space in your specific scenario gives women space to be like oh my god I can I can talk about what I went through I didn't even know I was allowed I didn't know permission almost like it's like when you do
Speaker 1that it gives others and I know from like the importance of when someone says like hey I did that too or like hey I also was so unreliable I had this great friend I could never show up for I did that too I stole that too you know and so that is what happened right these uh there are obviously people that come that are part of my recovery community but like these normies get to kind of experience what I've been experiencing through shared storytelling and it is so amazing and gratifying and just feels like yeah I don't I can't imagine not doing it so going all the way back to your original question like continuing to expand continuing to hear from other voices we are thinking about doing another storytelling series that's in the works that will be more inclusive inclusive in the sense that anybody could come and tell a story because we have just seen the magic of what we've been doing and how important it is for for community and connection and men are more than
Speaker 2welcome oh good I was gonna ask you yeah it is not a women only show I think it has the name
Speaker 3women in the title but it is absolutely open to any and all that makes me happy yes
Speaker 1some of our actually are like biggest champions of what we're doing are the men like there is one of our dear friends he's a dj here in the city and he saw one of our shows and he said it changed his life because we know that right we know that someone can say something to us and it can absolutely just be that like truth bomb that small nugget that like doesn't seem not the like get your life together but like this little thing and you're and it has that impact my dad comes to almost every show and he my sister and i are are to uh the two daughters and he says that he understands women more than he ever has because of the show because you we hear the stories we hear the like really big and scary stories about what it's like to be a woman which which is true a lot of the stuff that is going on but to actually just hear us talk about like our bodies or like what it feels like to age or you know dreams that we have and aspirations that's not always out there right it's everyday people everyday women and everyday stories
Speaker 2i think it'll help my marriage too so i'm that's what i'm thinking like i'm excited about that
Speaker 1it's it feels like a peek behind the curtain another dear friend of mine says like it really feels like uh a window into like women that you wouldn't necessarily get and there's no secrets
Speaker 3we're just offering people a chance to actually listen
Speaker 1secrets being told yeah no not at all it's it's the storytelling and that's when you know when i was saying it's not a ted talk it's you telling your story for you know seven minutes and that's it leave it on the like leave it there bring it and drop it and a lot of people have said like it's been really cathartic for them to like come and it gave them confidence to go on to do other things or you know they realized it wasn't that scary to do that thing or overcoming it was like empowered them to start doing more of it like all of that and there's other people who just came and told their story and that was it or you offer an organ yeah oh yeah so this is a this is a crazy story okay so we had uh raheel raza raza on the show who's like a badass like look her up team 70 team 70s formidable woman yes and she was talking about being on dialysis and needing a kidney and this is this kind of goes back to the story about like i remember the story and she was like cool but it wasn't like it
Speaker 3didn't have any impact yeah what happened for you i thought she needs to live longer i'll give her my kidney i met her i just met her she needs to live longer she does she does incredible work and she is so impressive and so i asked if she wanted my kidney we aren't a blood match but at that point mentally i'd given my kidney away so i started calling people and asking if anyone needs a kidney no joke and i ended up meeting another facebook person someone said hey i know someone who needs a kidney and i wrote to him and said hey how's it going what's your blood type and his name is felix and he is in recovery as well 19 years i think so yep and he's a social worker i know he became yeah i know him you know i know i know okay well he's he's the recipient of my kidney
Speaker 1yeah isn't that crazy i didn't i didn't know like you know this stuff right like i'm so woo woo i'm like what are the chances because i didn't actually even know him but i'm not sure so he's a friend
Speaker 3now everyone's like do you know him i'm like now i do now he's a great friend yeah oh my god so yeah he's uh he's a good dude yeah so he he needs a kidney and now he's got one so there's so much going through my mind right now i just like but that's the real word impact of this show like i
Speaker 1wouldn't have met impact of the storytelling and the certain thing that can move you right And even when that happened, Kirsten wasn't or didn't quite remember my dad received an organ he was an organ recipient 22 or 23 years ago so there's just like all of this stuff that's just like how and it all came from someone coming and telling their story and not saying hey give me your kidney just coming and telling a story that has an impact like you never know what you're saying and the impact it might have on someone and so that's why we feel
Speaker 2it's such a like beautiful i mean the the moment where the universe god higher power whatever you want to call it put a thought into your mind to start thinking like obviously your kidney was not meant to go to that woman right but it was meant like it just yeah it's just like you're like yeah i'm not satisfied with with no for an answer yeah she'd already given it away she was just like well
Speaker 1i might as well do this and then just like calling out people being like hey do you know anyone who needs a kidney but again storytelling right it's just like getting out of our own way telling our truth i was going to do this thing and now i'm doing this thing and you end the trajectory is never necessary it sometimes is what it looks like it's going to be but other times it's so unpredictable right it's not necessarily that she gave it to her and they have this great story instead it's something entirely different that somehow comes back around to me because she was like oh my best friend's in recovery oh because he
Speaker 3had a website and he wrote his story here's who i am i was in journalism and i needed to be in recovery and i remember messaging him and saying like i get it and so it is just serendipitous yeah
Speaker 1yeah that's incredible oh my god is it otter is it god as i like to say
Speaker 2how can you not it's just life is so much easier when i believe in a
Speaker 1directing force guiding force whatever you want to call it yeah in magic i call it magic yeah i mean
Speaker 2it was so much more fun let's believe in magic because then the possibilities are endless right who knows yeah um you mentioned that you uh you know you reached out for help to her 13 years ago yep if you had to if there's somebody listening right now that maybe is in that position where they don't know what what that looks like what do you say to that person how did you ask for help
Speaker 1um oh gosh i um oh gosh i um oh gosh i i you know that's a that is a tricky question i you know that's a that is a tricky question i you know that's a that is a tricky question because i'm not sure i think because i'm not sure i think because i'm not sure i think i was desperate right i was like i need i was desperate right i was like i need i was desperate right i was like i need help help help big time big time big time i think you have no idea i think you have no idea i think you have no idea like we were just talking about what that like we were just talking about what that like we were just talking about what that outcome is outcome is outcome is don't listen to that first thought that's don't listen to that first thought that's don't listen to that first thought that's telling you telling you telling you oh that there it's too much they're not oh that there it's too much they're not oh that there it's too much they're not gonna help me they're gonna tell other gonna help me they're gonna tell other gonna help me they're gonna tell other people you know people you know people you know it could happen but you're gonna be okay it could happen but you're gonna be okay it could happen but you're gonna be okay it's way better than handling it on it's way better than handling it on it's way better than handling it on your own like i think your own like i think your own like i think it's impossible personal opinion i think it's impossible personal opinion i think it's impossible personal opinion i think it's impossible to to to attack any mental health on your own attack any mental health on your own attack any mental health on your own whatever that looks like whether it's whatever that looks like whether it's whatever that looks like whether it's outside help from like outside help from like outside help from like when i think about my journey i have a when i think about my journey i have a when i think about my journey i have a psychiatrist i have a therapist i take psychiatrist i have a therapist i take psychiatrist i have a therapist i take my medication as prescribed i've gone to my medication as prescribed i've gone to my medication as prescribed i've gone to aa aa aa i've been a part of um i've been a part of um i've been a part of um she recovers like i've i've read all of she recovers like i've i've read all of she recovers like i've i've read all of the books about different modalities to the books about different modalities to the books about different modalities to recovery and those have become my tools recovery and those have become my tools recovery and those have become my tools speaking my truth became my my tool speaking my truth became my my tool speaking my truth became my my tool like being able to say that like being able to say that like being able to say that and if you're asking somebody you just and if you're asking somebody you just and if you're asking somebody you just have no idea that have no idea that have no idea that that they might need help at some point that they might need help at some point that they might need help at some point right like or that right like or that right like or that they know somebody like the they know somebody like the they know somebody like the interconnectivity of speaking your interconnectivity of speaking your interconnectivity of speaking your truth truth truth saying your truth even if your truth is saying your truth even if your truth is saying your truth even if your truth is messy and confusing i think i even messy and confusing i think i even messy and confusing i think i even remember saying like i don't know if remember saying like i don't know if remember saying like i don't know if this is gonna stick this is gonna stick this is gonna stick and it didn't i relapsed after that and and it didn't i relapsed after that and and it didn't i relapsed after that and um um um but it was worth it and then i think but it was worth it and then i think but it was worth it and then i think you know the fear around asking someone you know the fear around asking someone you know the fear around asking someone who you might know is in recovery i who you might know is in recovery i who you might know is in recovery i think that's there a lot right like i'm think that's there a lot right like i'm think that's there a lot right like i'm not gonna call my sponsor i'm not gonna not gonna call my sponsor i'm not gonna not gonna call my sponsor i'm not gonna like tell people in the rooms what's like tell people in the rooms what's like tell people in the rooms what's actually going on or i'm not gonna tell actually going on or i'm not gonna tell actually going on or i'm not gonna tell my therapist what's going on my therapist what's going on my therapist what's going on is problematic right if because for me is problematic right if because for me is problematic right if because for me to be able to take that storm to be able to take that storm to be able to take that storm like that horrible burning down of life like that horrible burning down of life and like be able to spin it into and like be able to spin it into and like be able to spin it into someone else's gold to be like hey me someone else's gold to be like hey me someone else's gold to be like hey me too like i did that too or i let me help too like i did that too or i let me help too like i did that too or i let me help you let me show you someplace let me you let me show you someplace let me you let me show you someplace let me tell you how i did it let me is the tell you how i did it let me is the tell you how i did it let me is the greatest gift to take literally a greatest gift to take literally a greatest gift to take literally a burning dumpster fire of a life and burning dumpster fire of a life and burning dumpster fire of a life and kind of take it and re-spin it and kind of take it and re-spin it and kind of take it and re-spin it and repurpose it repurpose it repurpose it into somebody else's like not feeling into somebody else's like not feeling into somebody else's like not feeling alone alone alone is just that's been the greatest thing is just that's been the greatest thing is just that's been the greatest thing and gen women has done that for that and gen women has done that for that and gen women has done that for that that for other people they feel that way that for other people they feel that way that for other people they feel that way but women come up after we encourage but women come up after we encourage but women come up after we encourage them to like they reconnect they end up them to like they reconnect they end up them to like they reconnect they end up doing their own things like someone will doing their own things like someone will doing their own things like someone will tell me like tell me like tell me like yeah like we hosted a facilitated a yeah like we hosted a facilitated a yeah like we hosted a facilitated a recovery thing together or we did this recovery thing together or we did this recovery thing together or we did this other thing together other thing together other thing together it's not even through me anymore i'm it's not even through me anymore i'm it's not even through me anymore i'm just like a conduit we are a conduit to just like a conduit we are a conduit to just like a conduit we are a conduit to community community community and right now real stories in a world and right now real stories in a world and right now real stories in a world that has a lot of fake that has a lot of fake that has a lot of fake or a lot of performative a lot of gloss or a lot of performative a lot of gloss or a lot of performative a lot of gloss to it i think people are craving it to it i think people are craving it
Speaker 3to it i think people are craving it what's really funny is you got tripped what's really funny is you got tripped what's really funny is you got tripped up when he up when he up when he talked about you asking for help and i'm talked about you asking for help and i'm talked about you asking for help and i'm going to identify that going to identify that going to identify that jen doesn't ask for help that's what jen doesn't ask for help that's what jen doesn't ask for help that's what happens there happens there happens there because that's why i don't realize you because that's why i don't realize you because that's why i don't realize you were like uh i don't know i don't ask for were like uh i don't know i don't ask for were like uh i don't know i don't ask for help you don't she does not ask for help you don't she does not ask for help you don't she does not ask for help that's true so i think it's the help that's true so i think it's the help that's true so i think it's the speaking your truth part speaking your truth part speaking your truth part which almost which almost which almost had a few of us had a few of us had a few of us realize that that was your way of realize that that was your way of realize that that was your way of asking for help or acknowledging but you asking for help or acknowledging but you asking for help or acknowledging but you did like did like did like the reading all the things you've the reading all the things you've the reading all the things you've supported yourself with those are all supported yourself with those are all supported yourself with those are all the tools the tools the tools but you tried to do it all yourself by but you tried to do it all yourself by but you tried to do it all yourself by doing all those things you didn't doing all those things you didn't doing all those things you didn't technically ask for help true technically ask for help true technically ask for help true that's true and so we now know sometimes that's true and so we now know sometimes that's true and so we now know sometimes when you need help you still want to ask ask for help but you want to take care of everybody i'm like that everybody i'll deal deal with it and
Speaker 1i'll tell you about it after yeah or you know one thing that i tend to do is like i will intellectually i'm like here's all the things but emotionally i'm not telling you how it was feeling i'm telling you yeah i'm a drug addict yeah these things happened yeah i did this but then when you get into like the feelings part of it it's it definitely it trips me up and you're right asking for help is like very challenging for me so what's coming to mind is like the thousand pound phone like it's so hard to like really do that and um especially as someone who is self-sufficient right who who does for the most part like handle things right but it's like how do i do that how do i let people in um and that's the beautiful thing too is it's like a work in progress like i'm not i don't have the answer i don't know you tell me how do you ask for help i
Speaker 2mean so there's a lot there you you said that in a nice way though to the point where it brought out that her response and so my first time i will answer your question i'm not i'm not dodging the question um asking for help it made me think asking for help doesn't have to be hey i need help no something signified you that she needed help and there was a seed planted along the way and that made it easier down down the road for you to know that there's people in your life that love you and will support you no matter what
Speaker 1yep right sometimes just showing up is the help too right and we talked about that before yeah just like being there and like sitting and and not telling her what to do not fixing it not everything's going to be okay you know like just presence the energy of two people sitting together
Speaker 2is just as good sometimes i struggle with that so much i want to fix you that's a very man thing i
Speaker 3think this is what you need to ask people when they complain or vent or whatever do you need me to listen or give advice right do you want a hug or do you want to fit like you want to dig in yeah and i mean we've even asked that of each other at times like do you want to just eat ice cream or like are we cutting off ponytails like what are we doing yeah i think yeah open communication opening yourself up though that's just it because as soon as you were opening yourself up yeah that's when we were yeah able to offer yeah support yeah because we recognized that there was a need for it yeah so i think it's opening yourself up and that vulnerability of saying which is like my people love me unconditionally yeah it's so much about that right yeah and when you open it up then we can all come in people in and offer that yeah i'll give you an example of
Speaker 2how i just thought of this now because i do not ask for help well at all i do not and it's not i maybe it is i mean it's ego at the end of the day no matter what but it's not so much that i think no i it is it's i think that you will think less of me um yeah but so i'm thinking of a specific story where uh so i struggle with body dysmorphia i've opened up about that and to our earlier points the more i've opened up about that you would not believe i've had 10 times the amount of guys come to me than looking for sober help that guys that are already in recovery saying what you you're so fit there's me too like i struggle with it too and so that's been a blessing in disguise that's been hard to open up about because again my brain is like you're in good shape they're gonna think you're a liar you know what i mean like all this bullshit in my head i was standing in the kitchen with my wife two three maybe a month ago about to go to a retreat a sober retreat with the rehab that i work at and um We had, uh, we were getting into, we got into an argument and I'm to try to share my story and not hers because i can often do that um but she was just she's bringing up times in my addiction because she saw me at eight years and then she saw me in my relapse so she's seen jekyll and hyde yes through and through she knows me at my core now which is a blessing and a curse at the same time right um so we were just we were in a bit of an argument and she was just like reminding me you know when people like and you and you're telling you things and you're like oh my god i forgot about i just forgot i did that i forgot i did that i forgot and i'm just like oh taking it and i'm i'm literally praying in my head because i'm like i again i want to make excuses i want to say it but this and that and i'm just like god help me just take this right now because she needs to give it to me right she needs to give it to me and so i needed help in that moment for the i'm going to relate it back to the body dysmorphia thing now i went into my fridge so we the fight ended and i don't know why this happened i call it an act of providence whatever i went into my fridge and i had been buying ozempic online okay to to deal and i'm doing this in sobriety not long ago and i'm hitting myself with it maybe whatever every week that's how i relapsed the first time is i started with things and not telling people right so we get into this fight she ends it wherever we're we're kind of on our own thinking our own things processing it i go into my fridge take it out and i go in the bathroom right in front of her like usually i'm more secretive or whatever and she i walk out and she goes the fuck are you doing like when she thought i was doing steroids again because that was another part of my story and i had a moment where i was like i could lie about this and get away with it maybe or i could tell the truth and i'm up to it and i paused which is a miracle in of itself and i told her the truth i said this is ozempic i've been doing it for a while i'm struggling with this and she didn't yell at me she didn't judge me she didn't she just accepted me in the moment and i was able to throw it out in the garbage and then go on to this retreat and share my story with a bunch of people that i didn't really know but i opened up about it and and people came up to me and said thank you for that thank you for that you know you really helped me i think that was a pivotal moment in my recovery again because like i said to you secrets were my downfall time and time again i think that's with all mental health is secrets right but especially in addiction it starts with a little spark in the back and then you're throwing gasoline on it every day yeah i think like without a doubt in my mind that if i had not had that experience if i had not thrown it out if i had not told on myself caught myself whatever you want to call it i think i would have eventually relapsed right so it's like that's how i ask for help to answer your question a long-winded way yeah yeah i need to get caught yeah i really i need to get caught i need to tell on myself by getting caught because it's so hard for me to say hey i'm struggling with this i don't know what to
Speaker 3do that's a great level of self-awareness though yeah and i think thank you it's helpful
Speaker 1when we have people that see us right that that can say like you don't ask for help so i know that i need to come in there right and to be able to be accepting of that right and to meet people where they are is a beautiful thing right and i think that's what your wife did in that moment and then to go and share at the retreat like it's just there's so much in just telling your truth tell your truth whatever it is it doesn't need to be rude it doesn't need to be like yelled you know at the tree like yeah like it can be like i'm not okay right it could be i might need help it could be i just need you to sit with me like whatever that truth is in that moment i think is the power and that's what happens at our event is like in that moment and i will tell the storytellers if you're if your story changes after you've told me what you think you're gonna say great that's fine i'm not gonna be like oh that wasn't what you told me liar no no i'm like that that's that could happen right that's the same way you know you just like get up there tell your truth as it relates to the topic the theme even that sometime is a bit you know people have done like spoken word another person you know didn't honor themselves in doing something in theater school and they performed their soliloquy that they never did because they were so um like they just didn't prioritize themselves and so they stepped to the side and performed it people were bawling right and then there's other people who tell like crazy stories you know about their sex life in team 70s at our last show had these nudes that she posed for in when she in her 20s in her 20s and they were from she shared them all she brought them she told the whole story and then she laid them out and there they were her news from her 20s oh my god and we loved it like people eat it up right when someone tells the truth it's like what you said it gives others you know i hate kind of don't love the word permission but it it tells someone else like hey that's okay and we want the show to feel like that i don't want you to look at it like a ted talk and be like i could never do that like i'm not that's not i want you to be like i got a story i want to do that yeah i got a story i could do that come on up right you know we talk about them not being professional storytellers and they are they're everyday women and they're some of them are like that is you know they do tell stories or they're a writer they're in the public eye but it could just be like someone like just you see it you feel moved let's go come on up
Speaker 2tell your story wow and to i mean there's so much magic that probably happens in that i love it i'm excited to come i'm i'm more excited that i'm allowed and invited yes that was my first thought when we first started i was like man i'm never gonna be able to go no come like we encourage
Speaker 1all ages like everybody to come like it really is a beautiful evening i know you will love it
Speaker 2i mean there's nothing better than raw authentic honesty open mind like especially coming out of you know in i'm pretending that this isn't the real world but the real world with yeah social media and you know that's my new addiction nowadays and it's just like is this real i don't know yeah you know are you crying you're crying you look like you're acting i don't know um yeah i was watching a video the other day and the girl was crying and and it looked like a legitimate thing and then someone was like this is a satire account and i was like what the fuck like oh my god you know and i looked at her videos and it was and i was like man you don't know what
Speaker 3anyways well we intentionally don't air our shows online yeah it's the moment yeah it's the moment and also people are sharing very personal stories and they're choosing to share it with a room full of people and not the internet so we intentionally make it about that night one one time only night
Speaker 1circus yep yeah so when's the next show we have three upcoming so first up we have our truth and reconciliation all indigenous that's on wednesday september 24th then we have our calgary show which is in uh october 2nd at the commons hemingway room hemingway room and then our three-year anniversary october show is on november october 23th october 23rd october 23rd october 23rd october
Speaker 323rd thursday october 23rd it's at the lounge at live nation which is in liberty village okay and
Speaker 1we do actually have a show coming up in november in hamilton yeah so we're really starting to like pick up speed and try to bring more and more of these to life and where can we find you generation
Speaker 3women.ca and there are links to tickets there as well yep and you have instagram as well yep we do which is generation women i'll link it yeah i'll link everything yeah thank you and our tickets
Speaker 2are on eventbrite too perfect yeah amazing thanks so much for coming down it was a pleasure to meet you and to see you again yep um i i hope our paths will cross again and i'm sure they will i'm excited to to go in and well you're coming to the show yeah oh you'll see me you're getting a phone call
Speaker 6yeah you're coming yeah no amazing thanks so much guys thank you thank you thanks for listening please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content the discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only this content is not a substitute for professional medical advice addiction treatment or therapy if you or someone you know is struggling with addiction please consult a licensed physician addiction specialist or mental health professional you are no longer alone Thanks for watching!
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