Gene Alessandrini, Senior Vice President of Energy at CyrusOne: on Grid Constraints, Power Strategy & Delivering Energy for Hyperscale Data Centres | Season Ten, Episode Four

Hello and welcome to season 10 of Conversations in Clean Tech, powered by BrightSmith. This is the podcast where we spotlight the people and ideas accelerating a cleaner, more sustainable future. This season we're deconstructing digital infrastructure. One of the fastest growing and most influential parts of the energy transition, from hyperscalers and AI demand to talent, capital, software and sustainability will explore how data infrastructure gets built, powered, finance, staffed and scaled. I'm your host Jenny Gladman and across this season I'll be joined by host from across the BrightSmith team to bring unique perspectives to this ever evolving topic. Each episode will see breakdowns of different aspects of this complex and fast moving space with the help of some incredible leaders who are paving the way for a cleaner, greener digital infrastructure. So let's get started. Welcome back to Conversations in Clean Tech. Today's guest is Jean Alessandreene, Senior Vice President of Energy at Cyrus Warn. And I'm also joined, there'll be no surprise, by one of my amazing co-host Chloe England our SVP set out in Austin, Texas. So hi Jean, hi Chloe. Hello. Hello. To give our listeners a bit of insight, Jean leads energy strategy across one of the world's leading global data center developers and operators. A time when power has become the defining constraint on digital infrastructure growth, that role carries enormous weight. He's responsible for securing, structuring and delivering power at scale across multiple markets, regulatory constraints and grid conditions, while advancing an ambitious climate neutrality strategy targeting 2030. Which is soon under his leadership. Cyrus Warn has formalized a renewable energy hierarchy, expanded long term procurement structures and built partnerships designed to overcome real world grid capacity constraints. What makes Jean's perspective particularly powerful is that he brings decades of energy market experience into this conversation. Before joining Cyrus Warn, he led commercial energy operations spanning wholesale markets, fuels hedging structured transactions and renewable asset management. He's operated inside some of the most complex and volatile power markets in the country and has a unique ability to translate grid reality into strategic execution. He's at the intersection of markets, infrastructure and capital, where megawatts are no longer theoretical but decisive. So with that, Jean, it is great to have you. And for our listeners, we've had some technical issues today. So it's safe to say we are all absolutely delighted to be united with sound. Yes, I agree. I'm excited to be on the call and welcome the beautiful introduction there and look for a tour our chat today. Oh, thanks so much, Jean. Yeah, it's so lovely to have you on. And as our listeners know, for this season, we're really focused on the intersection of power and digital infrastructure. So where power is actually coming from what's slowing projects down and what credible execution really looks like with AI demand accelerating and grid constraints tightening your perspective feels incredibly timely. So once again, thank you so much and we will jump straight in. You have built a career across wholesale markets, renewables, structured transactions and now mission critical infrastructure. So I'm curious what connects the different chapters of your career and what initially pulled you into energy. Yeah, so, uh, end of your by trade. So I think that pulled me into the energy industry originally started off as a utility engineer and then that led to at the time of deregulation, you know, led to me moving into the commodities market. And so therefore I've been in energy for, you know, two thirds of my career until I just started here at Cyrus one. So I always found that interesting, right? So energy commodities are, you know, generally exciting. That's like a cool, you know, very challenging and therefore you're always looking for, you know, that competitive advantage. And so spending time in the energy industry was both exciting, knowledgeable, learning, educational, you know, fulfilling and at the same time as I was, you know, approaching the latter part of my career, you know, this opportunity as I was one came up and I was like, wouldn't it be cool, you know, go do it all over again and, you know, from a different perspective? And so, you know, I found the energy industry very challenging and exciting and then had the opportunity to transition to the data center which to your point, crisis intersection, this really interesting intersection today on, you know, how do we solve the need for more compute simplistically and how do we tie that in with the biggest challenge in that compute demand is power supply. So it really created a really cool, you know, crossover, you know, an intersection that allow me to put the two pieces of that together and it's been, we've been rewarding, you know, 17 months and excited about, you know, the future that we have and solving these problems and creating solutions for our customers. And I guess to go one step deeper with that, you've sat in these seats as you said for a lot of your career where kind of risk and pricing and time horizons are very real and measurable. How is that helped to shape the way you think about powering the data centers? Yeah, I mean, I think a lot, you know, we have, you know, we have it, we have an industry, you know, simplicity, well, we step back, right? The energy commodity industry has always been a risk industry, right? So with that, you're always managing, you know, hedging strategies and risk profiles and commodity price movements and capital investment, you're not blending the complexity of an energy market, which is, I think more complex than most people think about because everybody walks into the house, flips on a switch and that's energy to them, right? So so now you're taking that into, I think a relatively complex industry itself, which is the data center industry and you have, you know, intelligent people running data centers who, you know, continue to evolve the technology and implementation of that technology. And now you're back to our earlier point intersecting the two, the complex energy market with the complex data center at continuously evolving market. And when I look at those bridging those and bringing those two together, the risk is not only just in the energy commodity itself, but the risk is now in the additional capital investment that's necessary for us to solve that problem, right? And that capital investment is not only in utility infrastructure, but it's also in generation, in a generation supply and the commodities associated with that generation supply. So it is a, you know, a very interesting time to join and a, you know, very interesting time to create that connection and intersection. And we're still in a rife and seen learning it, right? So the benefit I get to bring to Cyrus Juan is, you know, I've got 20 years experience doing it, the data center street, you know, as in an aggregate, we got two years, you know, of doing it, right? So now how do you accelerate the learning of the data center street to understand both the capital at risk as well as the commodity risk? And then how do you bridge that generation supply with policy and regulatory frameworks and the data center needs? And it's a, it's quite a complex puzzle, you know, in my 17 months, we've, we've been successful in integrating about four or five projects that allow us to, you know, to tie those together and create a solution. But that's, to me, we're just scratching the surface on where we need to go more broadly as an energy industry and more broadly as a data center and street because the, the problem is quite significant and the solution, you know, from my perspective, you know, having a couple from the other side is transparent, but, you know, getting everybody to understand it and getting everybody to work together to get to that solution is, is, is complex and challenging, but also rewarding as you get there. Yeah, amazing. And I'm just leading on from that, you know, in that move from renewable side leadership into the data center world, what has surprised you the most about the shift from generating power to securing and delivering power for mission critical load? I think the biggest shift has really been driven by the educational process for the data centers themselves, right? So when I was on the renewable side and on the commodity side, the focus was, you know, simplistically, how do we deliver additionality? How do we deliver renewables? And the industry at that time had already had five to ten years experience in doing that. So we were much more in the improvement stage, right? Today, as we shift over to, you know, solving power supply to the data centers, we are truly in the infancy stage, right? So as we look to approach that solution set, we're looking to one understand the needs of our customers, right? So electricity supply to our customers is critical, right? The mantra in the industry is five nines, you know, availability, you know, so that's 99.99 9% available at the data center. And as we transition from a market that generally started with an application to utility and the utility providing power in a 2 to 3 year window to a market that due to the size of the infrastructure investments, and the amount of load that the new data centers are asking for, you're going from that traditional process to a new process that says, hey, that's when I take five to seven years to get you power at the scale, you're looking to get power out. So with the new addition of, okay, now how do I bring generation into that picture to make sure that the power supply for my new campus is three. years versus that five to seven years, you're earning into a whole new or foray of natural gas supply, geothermal supply, other technologies, fuel cells that are now stepping into my solution set. And with bringing those solutions is a whole new set of challenges, right? So historically generation equipment is available, depending on the technology, say 92% of the time, 95% of the time. Well, to get to three nines for these new solution sets, we've got to design the technology definitely in the way an energy company does, right? So you have design requirements for the data center, they're different, you have design requirements for the generation companies that are different, and then inherit with that, you have capital at risk that you're deploying, and then you have commodity risk that ties into that as well. So as we bring together these solutions, we're trying to tie all that together, and it's quite a complex integration. And therefore our challenges continue to evolve. As we sit here today, we've made great progress over the last 17 months, and we're expecting that in 2026, we'll have quite a few of our solutions as put in place, and that allows us to set the table for repetitiveness, which is really critical for the industry. And as most people know, Cyrus One is one of the most established global data center platforms operating at scale in one of the most power constrained environments we've seen in decades. So rather than asking what you do, I'd love to understand how you frame energy internally. At your scale has energy become a constraint, competitive differentiator, a risk function, or all three. - It is definitely an all of the above. - I thought you'd say that. - Yeah, I mean, I wish it was just one, but definitely not. It is definitely all three. So when we approach energy in the market, power is clearly a constraint. So when we look at the demands of our customers, and we look at the needs of the marketplace, and we can simplistically use the numbers that are out and then the market that we need, 30 gigawatts of new data centers, or some reports will say we need 60 gigawatts of new data centers. Today, if we went through that historical process, we talked about the delivery, the timeline for delivery that is way out there seven to 10 years, which we know holistically, we know that that can't be the timeline, right? So power is clearly the constraint in today's market. It is why most of us are all focusing on how do we solve that problem. Now, it's also a differentiator, right? So for those of us who know how to solve the problem, like we talked about just a few minutes ago, how you put together the capital deployment, how you put together the equipment design and criteria to make sure you're meeting the needs of the customer, and the needs of our own business, and then you deliver that solution and have it executed for the customer, it becomes a differentiator, because you have the ability to bring what the customer needs, which is a data center and power to them in the timeline that they're asking for. And then it is definitely a risk function, right? Because what we just discussed before, right? The, you know, historically we'll just use, you know, simple numbers if I build a data center, and we'll say the data center is the typical data center today, which is say is three to five hundred megawatts, and I'm deploying five to 10 billion dollars for that data center, and my customer's coming in as deploying 10 to 20 billion dollars for that data center. Now I have a new component, which is a power plant that I need to develop with a partner, right? And now I'm deploying, you know, one and a half to three billion dollars for a capital to that power plant, right? So the cost, you know, generally the cost of a data center grows, and therefore that becomes a risk function like we talked about before, right? So we have a risk of capital deployment. We have a new risk on operations, and then we have an additional risk for delivery, right? So, so it is, it is all the right. It is definitely a constraint. It is, you know, definitely a differentiator for us, as we believe we have the ability to deliver product solutions, and then it's a risk function not only for us, but for our customers and our business partner that we're working with because we all have to take the appropriate risk to deliver the solution that we're delivering to our customer. And as we've discussed, your role spans energy strategy and location decisions. So how do you balance where customers want to be with where the grid can realistically support growth? So the market, you know, generally wants to be in the defined tier one markets, and they're preferred zonal locations, right? In the tier one markets in the US, for example, is Northern Virginia, you know, Atlanta, Columbus, Chicago, Phoenix, Dallas, right? So customers prefer, right? And from a first standpoint, they prefer to be in those tier markets, and that's where we're always looking to continue to grow. But as power becomes a constraint, as we talked about, what we're seeing is that the expansion of the zones is occurring, so therefore there's a broadening of the zones that we can go to and there's tier one markets and these working, but we consider new secondary markets. But as you get greater flexibility from a compute standpoint and zonal locations become less relevant and latency becomes less relevant versus historical requirements, location is now becoming what I'm calling a flexibility, right? It is, you know, our customers are flexible on where we can go from a data center standpoint. And with that flexibility, it becomes power driven, right? So as you're seeing a lot of new announcements in broader markets, particularly in the US, but it's starting to occur in Europe as well. As you see that expansion, aside, there's normal markets, power becomes the driver on what is the reason we want to be there, right? So grid reality is, you know, historically, I want to be in my core markets, but now since I need power, I'm creating flexibility in the marketplace and I'm going to where power is available. And that where that power is available is in the two areas we talked about before. It's where can I get connected to the grid? But it's also where can I can, you know, build a power plant and self-supply for some period of time until the grid comes to me. And then you integrate that whole solution together. And Cyrus, one, has publicly outlined a renewable electricity procurement hierarchy. So can you walk us through what that means in practice and why you chose that framework? Here, so in practice, our goal is, as you mentioned earlier, and we'll be here before we know it, is carbon neutrality by 2030. And that was really driven by two core principles, right? What are customers expect from us? I think what broadly are customers, our neighbors, our business partners expect from us? And our confidence and our ability to achieve the goal, right? So in our case, we're going to achieve carbon neutrality by 2030. And not only is that just a carbon neutrality, but we really, as you know, as well, we're focusing in other areas too, right? So water for us is really big, right? So we have a closed loop system that doesn't really use water. We have a goal, particularly in Europe, but also in the US, where not only will we, make sure that we don't really use water, but we're also bringing water back to the community, right? So each one of our goals that we set up for ourselves is really to make sure that when we enter a community, we're doing it from the right perspective and that we're implementing strategies that allow us to differentiate ourselves, but also be doing the right things from a community standpoint. So we implement our renewable, you know, in our carbon neutrality program, you know, we're building up the portfolio of assets that allow us to be carbon neutral by 2030. And that'll be a mixture of technologies and product structures. And as we work that way through time, you know, our goal will be to, you know, have a, you know, in a perfect world is that market continues to evolve, you know, relatively a 100% renewable portfolio or clean energy portfolio or carbon neutral portfolio that achieves that shape. From what I understand, the hierarchy that you've implemented at Cyrus 1, prioritizes onsite generation first, then long-time PPAs, then other instruments. So water companies sometimes get this wrong when they talk about being powered by renewables. Yeah, so I think the way I would probably frame that out would be, yeah, as we look for new power supply, we're going to look at it from, you know, to focus areas, right? One will be the generation component that we've discussed earlier. Most of that generation component will come from but I would call conventional generation. And therefore that'll play into how I build my hierarchy from a carbon neutrality standpoint, right? So most markets, you know, across the globe, have a natural component that are already renewables because renewables are in the market and therefore a percentage of the purchases we buy from that market have renewables associated with them. When we add these new product solutions that are primarily conventional fuel-based, it'll increase our obligations to buy more renewables, right? So, you know, so our focus, holistically from a hierarchy standpoint, is understand the expansion needs and growth of our industry in our business in particular. And what does that mean to our carbon neutrality objective? And then how do we build our portfolio, which today is primarily through, you know, the PPAs, the Power of Purchase Agreement that you had mentioned. But as we add, you know, more and more, we're going to be adding additional product structures that come into that and are, you know, on location capabilities will continue to expand and diversify across products from, you know, fuel sales to potential geothermal and other solutions that will allow us to blend a holistic approach to how we approach not only the energy supply, to ensure speed to power that, you know, they're very common in the industry today. but also ensure the carbon neutrality as we build that portfolio of solutions. Amazing. And just thinking about the kind of transparency that you've shared previously around the long-term PPAs and the fact that it can take kind of between one and three years to actually deliver new electrons, how do you bridge that gap while maintaining credibility in the strategy? Good question. Right? So the way we try to, the way we try to bridge it is that we're looking forward, right? So we're forecasting, you know, what's our energy uses today, what's our growth plans, what's our energy uses expectations in the future. So the way one of the ways for us to effectively manage that bridge is to start early, right? Because to your point, everything takes time. We're growing quite rapidly and therefore our purchases need to grow equally as rapidly. So what we're trying to do is making sure our approach to carbon neutrality pays attention to that growth expectation. And therefore, we're contingently in the market, you know, procuring solutions that allow us to not only grow with our growth, but to bridge the timelines that you as you highlight, right? So there's ways for us to enter the market in short-term acquisitions as well as ways to go and do longer-term acquisitions. And our product structures, you know, can be where a counterparty for us shapes a product, right? So we could, you know, buy a combination of a wind farm and a solar farm and they can shape it into a product that we need and they can accelerate, you know, the delivery of it even though the power, you know, the renewable facility may have a different timeline, they can shape the product structure to deliver to us in a different structure where they can fill in with their portfolio of product solutions. So that way we can bridge the timing issue, you know, through through product structures with our customers and our partners. I'm curious to zoom in on Texas, my home state. We've been, Texas has been reporting over 1,100 megawatts under contract to support Cyrus One facilities. It was a huge number. For context, what does that number really represent in terms of planning, risk allocation and infrastructure delivery? Yes, so a lot. So, you know, from our standpoint, right, what we're trying to do is we continue to grow, you know, broadly across all our markets, but obviously Texas is a market that, you know, generally people lean heavier into because, you know, I think it's generally a pro business environment that allows, you know, speed of execution, which is really important in the industry that's trying to find, you know, speed to power. So as we lean into Texas, you know, we are looking to find the solution sets that allow us to meet everything we've outlined, right? So first thing first is we want to identify sites that give us, you know, location or customers want to be access to power. And then once we have the access to power, how are we solutioning, you know, what we've been discussing here today, right? How do we solution the ability to get power to the site, but then how do we solution our carbon neutrality goals at the same time? And then when we're planning that, how do we make sure that we're delivering that, you know, based on the needs of our customers and the timelines and the cost structure that they want managing the risks that are inherent in those three individual components, right? So there's always risk and land acquisition and entitlements and community engagement and approvals and zoning. And then there's, you know, risk in the development of the data center itself. And then there's risk associated with the implementation of the power solution itself. So when we sit back as a team, we will callistically, how do we want to approach that? You know, we define the key criteria that allow us to determine success. And then we go and implement, you know, based on the processes and the partnerships that we have to ensure that we deliver, you know, broadly, you know, we continue to expect taxes to be a growing market for us, you know, both from a data center standpoint, but also from an energy and renewable. And what I would call other technology standpoint, with, you know, we're talking to business partners on, you know, grid and dancing technologies. We're talking to business partners on new technology implementation. And we're working close with our customers in OEMs on how we make sure that when we connect our data centers to the grid, we ensure reliability and we ensure that, you know, there's no impact other than us or no impact to the broader grid itself in our in our neighbors. I was like one gigantic balancing act. And more so, right? I mean, so, you know, what I was in the energy industry, you know, the challenge was the continued, you know, penetration of renewables and inverter based resources. And the market was trying to find ways to make sure that the grid could operate, you know, in that environment. And it's a continuous learning process, right? Because all this is new. And as penetration gets greater on a percentage basis, so the solution says gets a little bit more complex, right? So the same thing is happening now in the data center space where when we go to market and we're bringing solutions to our customers, we're also working very closely with our utility partners and the independent system operators to make sure that our facilities are operating in a manner that ensures the grid reliability for everybody, right? And these are these are issues that are becoming more relevant today just because the scale of the data centers are growing and the number of data centers are growing. But it's a it's a problem. You know, I'm very comfortable that the energy market and the data center and the market will start together and that grid reliability is quarter our business is for all our neighbors. And the solutions will will be identified, they'll be put in place. And I feel very confident. Well, you know, we'll meet in the needs and the demands for everybody. So, you know, that's what I think that's what makes it exciting is because of the fact that all these things are changing. But you have a lot of people focusing in both from a capital standpoint, as well as from a, you know, intellectual capital standpoint to make sure we're solving these problems. And actually, you touched on it a couple of times around the kind of different solutions and what we could perhaps refer to as the total energy mix and what that looks like and what it's required, like what's required from that perspective. What do you think is realistically required to meet the reliability, sustainability and scale without creating backlash? A lot, I think. So we'll go back to more life a lot about the word a lot here, right? So I think from an energy standpoint, I think there's several things that the industry broadly has to work with and the data center industry and policymakers and regulators need to work together on. One is we continue to need a diversified fuel mix, right? So it's really important that nuclear energy and geothermal energy and natural gas and renewables, you know, best facilities are integrating to the marketplace to ensure that the energy, the broadly the energy supply has the ability to meet the needs of the growing demand that's not only from data centers, but just generically growth in our economy. So I think that continues to be reinforced, right? So we as a data center industry, obviously, are very active in that space. You've seen lots of press releases about what the industry broadly is doing across all the technology mixes to ensure adequate supply and also, you know, reliability for all people who tie to the electric grid. On the infrastructure side, that infrastructure being transmission systems, you know, we really need to continue to evolve, I think, in two areas. One is grid-enhancing technologies that allow us to more effectively utilize the existing infrastructure that's in place today, which is, you know, we've seen pilot programs that have been successful. I think, you know, more broad expansion of those capabilities helps everybody in two ways. One is technology that can't be implemented. Two, if you went in that technology, generally economically lowers the cost for everybody else because you've already made that infrastructure investment and that everybody gets the benefit for more utilization of that infrastructure investment. And then I think the second thing that goes along with that is we need to really continue to have a focus on expansion of our infrastructure, right? So one of the big constraints is transmission expansion, right? Transmission expansion has always been complicated. And it's not, you know, it's not generally good to get any easier, but the simple reality is we've got to find ways to be expand the transmission system. So as we see, you know, low growth expansion for data centers and all their economic growth, we've got to find a solution that allows us to to actually put that in place. And the big concern of the policy side and the regulatory side has really been cost allocation. And I think when you sit back and you listen to the data center industry and you listen to our customers and our peers, cost allocation generically is not the point that we're concerned about. We're more concerned about, you know, how do we ensure we have the right technology? How do we speed the timeline for that execution? And how do we work together that the cost allocation is fairly allocated more obviously more than willing to pay for the cost that we're bringing to the market, right? So there are the things that I think really need to continue to be discussed and solutions need to continue to be implemented, but really accelerated, I think is the other thing. The fourth component, which I think is important in the competitive markets is we got to let the market structures to evolve so that way, that way, they incent the capital investment for new new build generation, right? So we've got a little bit of pinch right now that wholesale market prices aren't paying the cost associated with a new build generator. So new build generations not getting added into the market. This is particularly a US issue, but it's an issue globally as well. So therefore if generations not getting added, then what's happening today, as we talked about earlier in the podcast, is the data centers are building the generation to make sure that you have adequate supply. and that we have adequate reliability, because it's necessary for our business, but the benefit of that necessity for our businesses is that everybody receives the benefit of us building that generation. And connecting that becomes really important, right? It's, I say with my management team, and I talk to our customers, and I talk to policymakers, I don't wanna build a generator just for me. If I have to, I will, but if I'm building a generator, the best solution for that generator not just to serve my low, but it is actually just have a connection to the grid, it increases the capacity of the grid, and additions enhances the generation capacity and the transmission capacity. And that benefits everybody in a market today that is generation constrained as well as transmission constrained. - I have so many other questions I wanted to ask you, but we're gonna run out of time. So I think we're gonna have to move to some wrap up questions, unfortunately, but lastly, looking ahead a couple of years, what do you think has to change first for the US power system to keep up with digital infrastructure demands? - I think they'll touch a little bit about what, just what I went through together with you. So I think first and foremost, I think we gotta work together. I think what's happened today, and what I'm seeing in my 17 months in the data center, and it's that we've done really good job of solving individual problems, right? Or creating individual solutions, right? And to me, it's going back and looking at what has worked well, and then how do we take that and expand it nationally and globally, right? So that goes back to gridded enhancing technologies. It goes back to flexible loads, it goes back to new technologies like Bess and other solutions sets that allow the grid to be more flexible. So that way we can connect the data centers, make sure call-striolicated fairly and maintain reliability and cost efficiency for the consumer, right? So I think that really is, to me, it's really, really important. And we gotta, you know, again, we see a lot of capital investment, you know, coming into the space and across many spectrums. So how do we make sure that capital is invested efficiently? And it's doing so that really accelerates in the opportunity to implement and execute. - And I have one extra question. - And so there's no limit here. You, yeah, I feel like we didn't find out much about the man behind the data centers, but I would love to just ask one final question of, for our listeners, if there's one thing that you would love them to take away from today's conversation or just from you as a person, what would that be? - Well, I guess probably two things, right? One, it's an exciting time to be, you know, in the intersection as we talked about between energy and data centers, right? And I welcome people who, you know, love that opportunity for excitement and solutioning, I think a very important intersection that needs to occur and evolve and develop and succeed. So I think that's one. So welcome talent into this, into this new game that we get to play that's really exciting. And as desperately needed, it needs to be, you know, solutioned and completed, right? So, I think that would be one. I think the second thing would be, you know, Cyrus Wan is a great company that, you know, understands how it needs to be a contributor to that solution that we just outlined. And as an industry, you know, and as a company, we're extremely focused on delivering on our promises. And those promises being, you know, meeting our customer demands from, well, we would consider sophisticated technology solutions with our Intel scale design, with our community engagement processes, with our commitment to carbon neutrality and other ESG objectives. And I think what we're trying to do is to demonstrate that the industry one cares, the industry two has the ability to execute on the promises, not only to our customers, but to our neighbors and our community. And that when we go to achieve that together, it does require everybody to come together for that solution, right? We are, we are all capable. You know, Cyrus Wan is fully capable to self-solve this problem. And all our, you know, all our customers and our peers are able to do the same. But in reality, if we really want to do what's best, both from a capital efficiency standpoint, from a customer neighbor standpoint, we really want to solve that more holistically. And us all coming together to do that, policymakers and regulators and generation companies, and energy companies and utilities, it's really important. And it's easy for us to get distracted by the headline news because there's lots of it. But the reality of it is, there's a lot of people underneath, there's had a lot of needs working really hard to put successful solutions in place. So that way everybody gets the benefit of a better compute world, a better capability from a data center world. And generally just a better community. - Thank you. I'm glad I asked the question. But thank you for the discussion today. It was super practical, insightful. I like how you're bringing those two worlds together and how your brain thinks. It seems to be a million plate spinning, but coming out with great things. So yeah, really appreciate the insights that you've shared with us. I'm glad we finally aligned all on a call, all the sound, all with images. (laughing) And it was a brilliant discussion. So thank you, Jean. And yet excited to see what comes next. - And thank you as well as the pleasures. Thanks and time for today and look for future discussions. - Thank you for listening to conversations and clean tech brought to you by BrightSmith. If you enjoyed this episode, follow like or leave a review. It really helps more people to discover the series. Here at BrightSmith, we connect purpose-driven talent with companies building a net zero future. Find out more at BrightSmithGroup.com and stay tuned. There are plenty more conversations in clean tech to come.