Gap Sell Keenan 75 - Crafting Impactful Questions

Look, I was going to go easy on you not to hurt your feelings. You fucking irritate the shit out of me! I'm only going to get this one chance. It's just a feeling I've got, like some things about to happen, but I don't know what. Hey what's going on peeps? It's been a while. It has been a while. It is Gapsell Keenan time. For those of you who know, you know, for those of you don't, Gapsell Keenan is where I sit with a real salesperson who it works for a real company who is a real product of service. And they believe that I should be able to buy or should need that product of service. So I'm giving them a chance to sell to me. If they can find a problem or issue we have, we will buy. If not, they have to be subjected to my coaching. So we have today, I'm going to butcher his last name. I know it. But we have today, I'm just going to stick with Paolo. And I'll let him introduce himself here in just a second. So, thank you everybody. Welcome back to Gapsell Keenan 75. For those of you who haven't been here in a while. For those of you who have missed it. It's been a long time. Sit down, buckle up, and let's have a good time. So let me introduce to you, Paolo. What's going on brother? I'll do much. Thanks Keenan. Thanks for having me, honey. Yeah, of course. Of course. So take a second. Tell everybody a little bit of what you do, what your company does. So at least everybody has a little bit of context before we jump into deep. Sure. My name is Paolo Gelliardi. I'm going to sell that again. Paolo Gelliardi. Yeah, that's why I couldn't say it. Everybody hear that? That's why I couldn't say it. So I'm a sales manager here at AnglePoint. We work with a lot of global corporations and help them with ITS at management and cloud management services. Our objective is to help them drive their cost. Drive their cost down. So through cost optimization, mitigate any risk. So we're talking about audit risk and security risk here. Okay, so are you an MSP? We do. We are a managed service provider. Yes, we help our clients through managed services. Yes. You seem a bit reticent to say that. Is there more? It's almost like someone sells something and they're not proud of it. They're like, well, yeah, I guess we are the tax collector. But you know. So we have services that are branded on their managed services. At the end of the day, our job is to help these clients be successful at software asset management. So counting the software they've bought versus the software they've installed. Make sure we can optimize it, save the money and eliminate any risks. Okay, all right. So do you have any questions before we get started? No, I'm good to go. All right, man, you got 15 minutes to figure out what problems we have. Sounds good. I'm ready. Can you tell me a little bit about your your online environment at at ASG? Oh, that was an online training. Yeah. Oh, well, I don't know much to tell you. It's custom built at. It's extremely interactive. I don't know what it's built on. I don't know what type of service we use. I do know it is hosted at AWS. And we use the third party or the vendor that that built it as our tier one customer support. And yeah, and anything that ever goes around with it, you know, they've got a fix it. Okay. How many active users do you have on the platform today? Oh, man, that's a good question as well. Maybe three or four hundred maybe. I don't, that's a good question. Maybe three, four hundred. Okay. And can you tell me two ASG, what's the average value of each of those users? About six or seven hundred dollars. That's in today's pricing model or in the past pricing model. As you can point probably, okay, it's in today's so the past would be five hundred dollars so we're not far off. Okay, no, yeah, few hundred dollars. Okay. So, so in a year, you're talking on average, probably somewhere around hundred and fifty thousand dollars of revenue dedicated to the gap selling online. And that's okay. I've noticed recently you've changed the model a bit, you changed the pricing, you've added a gap plus. So, any of the recorded webinars are accessible through the platform. What's your growth plan look like for 2025? What are you trying to do with the platform over the next two? You grow it. All right, so to grow it. But so I just, I just threw you a huge bone in that I just gave you some information about where we are today from a revenue perspective, right? And a cost per person and the number of people we have on those you have first questions. Yes. No, it is that helped me find a problem whatsoever. And now you're asking me to now a big right now you're asking me to tell you what our growth goals are. And here I am like, why am I telling the strange of this shit? Like, I gave it to him once. Why am I don't like don't like divulging what are the fucking what I want to say? Devolging all of this, right? Why? Why am I doing that? So I hear you and I know what you're trying to do but put yourself in a buyer's seat. I'm not going to tell you all that. Should I have to give you one bone? Like, why would I tell you what my strategy what my growth goals are? You told me your managed service provider. I am, or okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You told me you help with IT. So you started with and I thought I knew where you were going when you were like, you know, who managed it for you? Tell me a little bit. So I tell you about it. I tell you what sits. I tell you what's going on. You ask me how many uses. Then you go into the money and my growth goals. You do nothing to go down a problem role. Do you know what problem you're trying to find? Yes. Okay. So here's a hint for you and everybody watching. The first time you ask a question and I liked your first question. It was a great question, right? When I answered it, you should have started with probing questions to find out what's wrong. Don't start asking me about all this shit. Like how much money am I making on it and where do I want to go with it? Like that's no. Don't do it. Find out what's wrong. Okay. So I went too soon. Yes. Way too soon. Way too soon. Can you see that though? 100% at this point. Yes. Yeah. Like find the problem. That's what we call problem-centric selling. So a few weeks back, I went to access gap selling online and I was actually presented with a page and website not available. Yeah. And then I tried your main website and that was down as well. Can you tell me a little bit about what happened that day? So okay. So if I mean, wait, you need sales growth company who was down? Yes. Okay. I don't know why that one was down. I don't know what that one was down. But why gaps plus was down and online gap selling was down was because it happens kind of more often than I prefer. It happens because they push an update and it crashes something else or a lot of times. For a while, I don't know if they fixed it, but for a while, they kept forgetting to notify themselves. I'm going to butcher this. Notify themselves or schedule updates to Google. Google would do these updates or AWS really would do some updates would be required. You know what I'm saying? And they would forget to do them or not know to do them. And then after certain period of time, I guess if you don't update them, you don't update whatever it is. I want to say it's Google. I don't know why it's Google. But anyways, if you don't do these updates, then the site goes down. And they just went on top. Okay. And then do service provider? No, that's the people who developed the website. So the people that manage everything for us. Oh, okay. I got some insight. I got some insight. Okay. What I just told you is true. However, in addition, it went down two weeks ago because we are credit card expired on WordPress and we were unaware. I mean, I can't. This is the one thing about credit cards. I'm not driving absolutely insane. So we were unaware and WordPress took us down and we couldn't figure out why and we're running around, we're running around calling them calling every, that's what it was calling everybody. And then finally I went in and it was just a stupid credit card. It just the credit card expired, we instead of putting it in. So that was paying in the ass. That was very frustrating. But yeah, that one was caused of that. Okay. And was it just gaps selling online that was affected or it was a broad that's why both went down because they were both sitting on that same credit card. Okay. And do you know how long that downtime was? A couple hours maybe, half a day, half a day or something. Once we figured out what happened, then WordPress took this sweet ass time to get us back up. But you know, and look, it is somewhat in my fault, I think, because I think I got messages. Oh, I know. We have a general mailbox that Brady used to check the most. I don't check that often. So all of the notifications that you credit cards expiring went there and I wasn't checking it and then when it went down, you know, I finally figured it out. Okay. You know how many users were affected during that few hours, half a day? No. You have an idea over an average amount of time how often, over an hour, how often users log on, what's your average track almost? I have no idea how many users log on. You're poking, you're poking the bear, man. I like the guy developed this in his team. I think he's a nice guy, but he just didn't do a lot of things that I think should have been done and he wants to keep charging us to get things that I think should have just come as natural like how many subscribers do we have? What what are active sessions? You know, I'm saying a way to manage all of those things. None of that was put in. We've paid a lot of money for this. So from an actual user front end perspective, I mean, except with the downtime issues, thrilled. Like people love the training. The training is bad ass. So I had to screw up. I'd rather screw up on this side, right? On the business side. And user side, it's bad ass. Like it's interactive. Choose your own journeys and it's amazing. We're a test to pop up and then videos that respond to your answers. Like you got them wrong and a video pops up and says, hey, that was wrong. I mean, what are you thinking? And so it's very makes people put in the back end their ability to manage it. Now many sessions we got going see what users are, how far in they are, ad users take users out. Now none of that exists. Okay. So it's safe to say that simple email notification that went to an inbox that wasn't being verified, brought down, kept selling online. That's better to say, for WordPress, yeah. Okay. And so if you look at this from an opportunities perspective, you think you've lost opportunities from an opportunities perspective, from a set additional sales perspective. You think you missed opportunities or users that were trying to purchase subscription over that course of a period. Okay. So you just asked me, do I think that's a self-diagnosing question? I don't know. Like do you really want to ask me what I think? No. Okay. Try again. So over that course of a few hours, how many users would normally purchase kept selling online? Oh, not that many. And you kind of, it's funny. It's a tough one for you, but kind of funny. You kind of already knew the answer to that. Yes. And why do I know you knew the answer to that? Because you have two to three hundred users active on the platform. Yeah. Yeah. So that's not multiple users in an hour. No, you're right. We want to get there. That's why we added kept selling. I mean, sorry, that's why we added get plus. And now little hint, little, you know, early person hint. We're going to be adding office hours. So people who are part of get plus can actually sit and talk to one of our to our actual trainers. And we're going to be adding an ask, no, something else. We got what it is. So we're going to make it even more. Oh, we're going to have a slack channel. So all the people are part of get so I can interact with each other, make it more community based. So that's interesting. So I'm curious. This is, I know this this happening a few weeks ago. Has this happened in the past as well? Is this the first occurrence? As far as the site going down? Yes. Was what I was telling you before it also went down because of not making those updates. Remember I shared that with you. And how often does that happen? Well, that happened. I would say it happened. See, like once a quarter for a while, I don't think it's happening a while. I think the site after we got the WordPress thing fixed. I want to say that I don't think the site's gone down. Okay. Is it safe to say based on the process you have today that it could go down again? Do you feel do you feel confident that with the processes you have today that you can maintain it up? Just to just ask another self-diagnosing question. So I'm going to I'm going to do what? So I'm says two to three times a month. Here's the hard part. You're not talking, you're not talking to the right person. Yeah. All right. So Sean just said two or three times a month. So Sean, why has it gone down two or three times a month? He'll get back to the cinnamon. But you asked the self-diagnosing question. So I'll help you with that. Don't ask a self-diagnosing question. Everybody pay attention. It's for everybody. Uh, Renan Hardman. No, Jennifer Fino said here to take notes. So Jennifer, take this note. Okay. You asked something along the lines of based on your current processes. Are you comfortable that won't happen again? Right? Yes. So, so how do you make that a non-diagnosing question? It's asking the amount of times it goes down. No, no, no. Because you're asking me, you're trying to understand my future belief system, right? And I, and the re, I mean, look, I ran a self-diagnosing question. There's no question. So everybody take a note on that. But how is I screw you up? No, I'm confident. That's not going to go down. Now what do you do? No, no, I'm stuck. So instead, you want to, you ask me about processes. Yes. You're asking me about processes. So imagine if you asked the question this way. Imagine you said, could you walk me through the processes you have in place to prevent this from happening again? Everybody listen to me. This is what gap selling is all about. This is about thinking through the problem. You want to understand what's going on in the environment. If you ask me, do I think my current process will keep this from going down again? I could be an idiot and say, yes, even though I'm wrong, well, even I'm lying to you. I don't want to work with you. But if you asked me, could you tell me about the processes you've had in place or you've added to just happen to prevent it from happening again? And I would say to my knowledge, none. I don't know what they're doing in the background. I don't think they're doing anything. See the difference? Everybody, everybody pay attention. You see the difference here. It's about uncovering the data so that data draws the conclusion, not the person you're talking to. Paulo, did that make sense, bro? 100% make sense. Did you remember what I was trying to go? That's where I was trying to go. And that's exactly how I should have driven you there. Yeah, yeah, just try to understand my environment. So hold on a second. Sean's playing wingman here. Let me see. Hold on, hold on. Two to three times a month, an update, or a new video gets added and there's some sort of bug that takes it down until xyz person refreshing. It's usually down to 30 minutes from now and that happens. It's usually user that notifies that. Okay, so yes, so our developers will upload a video, right? So we'll upload a Gap Plus video or Gapinar and that takes the site down and or they do an update and that takes the site down. And then we don't know it's down until a user says, hey, the site's down. And then we got to reach out to x guy. It's being nice to him right now. And I'm like, yo, and sometimes we have we have customer support and we'll send help desk and we'll send them a little note and it's taken so long we just we just bypass and we just ignore them now. Don't even pay attention to them because we won't hear anything for hours or even days and that's not okay. So now we go straight to the owner of the company and he goes in or does his magic and gets the shit fixed. Okay, so this happens multiple times a month. From what I've seen on your website, you are trying to grow and evolve it. You're adding features. And no, no, no, no, now you're going in future state. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, Paulo, Paulo. You're too early. You just you just you just yeah, wait too early. You just got because what you don't know. What you don't know or you know very little of is what's the root cause? So you know, my site's going down. That's a business problem, right? Yes. Why is it going down, Paulo? Now I told you, but from a technical perspective, you should be digging far more into that or trying to understand it a little better. Because I don't think you can solve for this problem. I can't. I don't think I can either. Yes. So at least learn how to get sell a little better and how would you ask a question? So I told you it's going down every time they update. We had a video on the update something. So as a as a technical person, what do you think that could be? What questions would you want to ask me? I didn't want to ask how the platform is built. Why it's built that way? Can it be built differently? So it doesn't take the site down every time you you upload a video. You put a process in place to refresh it. Okay, so that's getting a little deeper than I was thinking. But what if you what if you said so keen and it sounds like right now, this is an architectural issue or a development issue. It's on the development side that the software developers have built this in a way that the architecture is buggy and or there's something they're doing when they when you upload the videos or when they they themselves create updates that's taking it down. Is that correct? Because what you want that's that's a validating question. You move validating questions. Yes. Right. So that's a bet. And I would say yes, I'd appears that way. Now your expertise could potentially say, all right, now that could also be caused by the server setup. I don't know if I'm making shit up, right? Or this could also be the result of how they're deployed. It's annoying. It's something that comes outside of software development. And so you might want to think of, you might be thinking, could something be side software development be causing this? The answer is no. Then you're like, okay, Ken, that's not something we work on. However, we do know some good software developers. If you think you need help with that, and I'd love to introduce them to you that I would say to you, I'm scared of shit to have someone else come in and touch this because it's a complete custom built and I do not need to quote unquote spend double what I paid for it just to bring somebody up to speed on how to run it. You see what I'm saying? So I feel kind of stuck. Yes, I feel kind of stuck. But anyways, you could do that or you could say, I can't help you and you could move on. So now you've found two problems. You found the problem of the site going down and you found the problem. The first one you found was the first one. I'm sorry. Credit card. What about the credit card? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's that was the one time thing and there's nothing. Yeah. So what else are there any other problems that you solve? Well, I want to go back to the credit card and the notifications and that process because typically when we see that type of setup within companies, it's not just the website that's linked to those credit cards and those notification inboxes. All the software, all the purchases you make for your IT environment. Do they follow the same process? Do you use that same email inbox? No process whatsoever. Right. So now, yeah, I'll let you keep going. So no, I mean, no, we, I don't even know what the process is. Brady, who used to work with us did all of that. She gave me a sheet. I know we've got different inboxes and I got to check the inboxes. You can bet with my ADHS. I was checking like once a day for a while, nothing changed and I dropped to one suite, nothing changed. And I don't even think about it anymore. And all of a sudden something like this happens, you know what I mean? So what we normally see in those instances is you get new people coming on board. You just buy new licenses and keep going. With the people that have left, those licenses stay in the environment and you're paying double for that software and whatever. Okay. Don't tell everybody another one that I'm going to help Paulo but help everybody here. Don't tell me about other companies. I don't give a shit. Like that's other companies. I don't care, especially this far into the conversation. I'm really good with the prospecting because you don't know, but I just told you what this is. And then you said, so this is what you said, we've heard or seen with other companies like yours that they get new people on and they buy new stuff and blah, blah, blah. Well, how about take the time to get in, flip back, ask me questions, Keny. Keny, can I ask you a ton of more about your text that, right? How many different roughly, how many different applications do you have? Are they all in the cloud? Do you have any client server environments or any server environments yourself under your own roof? Do you have to manage any of that, right? How do you manage the software and the licenses? Yeah. The license management. How do you manage the credit card expiration dates? How do you manage the, what's that shit? The renewals, right? How do you even know what you have? And I would tell you, so first up, do you see what I've done there? It's an entirely different set of fucking questions, right? So I went to process and you said you didn't have one and I should have dug into the process how you do it on a daily basis instead of sticking it here. Hold on. Yes, yes. But what you did is you tried to come out of my world and you went into another world and you said, well, what we typically see is this. Are you experiencing this? Why would you do that? Why would you go to someone else's world and ask me if I'm seeing this, right? So how about this one? All right, what's what I'm going to do? Some people, oh, look, I have an issue on your back. Okay, imagine, I don't know why he's dating now is all the time. Everybody gets mad with me, but what's this one? There's a girl you really, really like or a boy you really, really likes. You like someone and you know they're in a relationship, right? And you would never say to him or her if you're trying to see what their relationship is like, "Wait, I know some girls that go out to football players or some guys that go out to cheerleaders. They do this, this, and this." You know, so how is your relationship? That sounds stupid, right? It's like that guy did it. So you're saying, my guy's doing it? Like that's dumb. What you might just simply say is, hey, how's he treating you? Tell me, when's the last time he's got your flowers or when's the last time she, you know, splurts to take you to dinner instead of you taking her to dinner? When's the last time she just sat down and had a conversation with you about to point you? When's the last time he asked you how your day was? Do you see what I'm saying? Like, stop. Like when you say that, other people typically we see, you're basically saying, I'm not paying attention to you at all. So bring it back in and then when you say, "Didn't we see such such a thing?" Bring it back in and say, "Keyton, talk to me about your current processes to deal with these things." And then maybe what you want is flipping it and allowing me to give you the data so that you learn about my organization. Okay. So, Keenan, tell me about how you currently, tell me about your tech stack. Tell me what you guys have at some point. Oh my god. I don't think I could do it all off the top of my head, but it's HubSpot, Salesforce, Polypiper, LinkedIn, WordPress, AWS. I don't know if you can say that a tech stack, but AWS, Google docs, Google, whatever the whole Google workspace. So then tell me what you do. Do you purchase this software? That's really in question. Tell me about what you do when a new person joins ASD. Oh, yeah. Well, then I have to go and set them up. I got just one at a time. Go down and go, "Oh, make sure they get chili paper. It did fit to sales person." Oh, if it's a marketing person, make sure we have HubSpot, it's a marketing person. So I just got to figure out who needs what pieces. I, I, Brady used to do it, but I was Sean do it now. We split up the workload. I was Sean do it. Okay. And so is that the same process when someone leaves you go in and selectively remove them? Yeah. I wouldn't even call it a process. Yeah. Pain in the ass. Okay. How often do you audit each of those portals to make sure that all the users in there should be in there? Never. Now. Okay. I like where you're going, but there's all based on what you do, and now we're 27 minutes. We're going to wrap up because you, based on what you do, you ask the question. You said every time you hire somebody, you have to do them. Yup. And every time someone leaves, I do, yup. So that's good. But what is, what is all that predicate on? Like, meaning, meaning, needing help with that that I would pay for is predicated on what? The limitation of your time, your skill set. What would limit my time? You're worth more in the training or in an onsite with a client that you are creating accounts for your career. 100%. 100%. But what would be the limiting factor in that environment you described? I'm going to say it slowly. It's going to watch the light bulb go off. Right. Watch right here. So your question was, so every time you add somebody new, you have to do that. Yes. Every time somebody leaves, you have to do that. Yes. What is the missing factor here that makes this a real opportunity or not? What happens when you're not there? No. I'm going to give you another analogy. And Mark, shoot, make it. You like that. I want to give you another one. If I tell you, I have to dig holes. Right. You're like, man, every time you dig a hole, it takes you two hours. And I have a dump truck. I'm not a dump truck. I got a backhoe. Where I got a little, what are those little, what are those little, what are those cutting out of cats? Digger? Bobcat. I got a little bobcat, right? Okay. Why would I want to buy that bobcat if I'm digging faster? More than one hole, bro. This is the part you're missing. More than one hole. I am not going to buy a bobcat if I only fucking dig a hole once every year. Even it takes me two or three hours. I'm not going to do it. So in your example, when you said, and I said, yes, every time I have to do every time, what you didn't ask me is how quickly do you hire people they leave? Again, everybody pay attention. And I'm making a claim right here. So everybody take this and put this on your damn LinkedIn. This is why I get frustrated with sales organizations everywhere. Nobody thinks like this. Nobody thinks to ask these types of questions. The frequency of my hires and my fires plays a massive role in the value of solving that problem. Because if I'm hiring 10, 15 people a month and trying to onboard them and I'm losing it for five, six a month or even a hundred. But yeah, that is a full time job. I might want to outsource that. I might want support on that. I might want to improve the process. That's about scaling. If I'm only hiring one or two people a year, if that, yeah, it sucks in that moment. And it's no, I'm not going to buy something. Everybody listen, you got to start teaching your people to think, think, think, think, think about the problem, the impact and the root cause. How is this a problem? problem big enough and so probably you're doing a great job. You're so calm concocted so I feel bad but you got to be thinking is this a real problem? You're almost there. You're one foot in the gap, selling one foot out and the reason I think you're one foot out is I'm gonna go out in a limb and you tell me if I'm telling the truth. I think you're still learning. So you're thinking too much. Am I asking the right question? You're thinking too much and I head in the right direction, right? Where you're not processing. You're not listening to what I say and your brain isn't thinking is that a problem? What am I missing here? Why would that like? Because that's what I tell people the time. When I start asking questions I do a a a does discovery myself. That's what my head is. It's constantly processing the information that buyer gives me and I'm trying to figure out is there a problem here? So if I wanted to go down the road of the process of holding you up and I come to the conclusion that that is a minute the more steps in that pro or the more people going through that process the more cumbersome is it will click for me immediately. Now let me say wait so how many people you're doing this? How many people you're coming on monthly? They say two of my guys even just do that. I know it sucks but you can just do that. You don't need me. They say 200. Then I was like so you got 200 people on this manual process. So you have to be missing stuff. You have to people follow through the crap. Yeah that's why I'm talking you dumb shit. So I got you. Like that's how it works. Right? That's how it works. Yes I'm wrong with the take but again Christian Aversum how long it takes only matters if I got a lot of people going through it. I am not going even if I only have two people a year going through it. I am not going to worry about how long it takes even if it takes a whole day. I just can't just buy the cost. And that's another way of looking at how it does it justify the cost. That's how big the problem has to be. Okay. So is there any other problems you saw if you want to check to see if I have? Oh that was it. Okay. So what business problems will you try to find here? I was trying to find shrinking profit margins either. Okay. That is not a business problem you saw. That's an impact. Okay. That's an impact. And here's and do you know why? So everybody is trying to do a pick. This is really important. This is very important. Paulo. Do you think that every single. Okay. I'm not going to say every single. Do you think about 85% of the B to B services and products directly indirectly affect profit margin? Probably. Yeah. So therefore that's why it's not a business problem on your pick. It's too broad. It can absolutely be an impact. But you've got to figure out the business problems you solve directly. I solve shrinking profit margin too. So does an account one. So like you can't have that on your pick because you can't get a customer to say you can't go in and say I'm an MSP or something similar where an IT shop whatever. And then start with yeah, I shrink profit margins because that's too broad. Right. Yeah. You got a you got a command and I think it can be unplanned downtime could be one right lack of access to applications. Like I'm guessing here, but you see I'm going. Yeah. The other ones. The other ones we folks on are the increased compliance risks. So audit risk. Okay. Let's talk about compliance. Let's talk about I like that one. I think that's a real one you guys mess with. You didn't try to find that with me because there's no place I'd be out of compliance. Correct. Very good. Very very good job. Okay, what's the next one? Yeah, when you mentioned the SaaS applications, I knew straight out of the gate. You're either over licensing or straight on the money. Beautiful. Okay. The other ones, the increased security risk. Do do out of date software or love it. Or any yeah, unrestricted access. Kind of tried to go through there at the end, but we didn't quite make it there. We went on the tangent of how many users you onboard and off board and we didn't get to the what happens when you don't off board someone. And so what was the problem you were trying to find there? So unrestricted access to data they can they can. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Access to date is not a problem. That's a cause. Yes. Can you say unrestricted? That's first off, that's not a problem. That's probably a future state, right? Restricted access would be the problem, correct? Yes. So you can't you can't have a positive in the problem section. Right. So that's part of the security the security risk. So the security risk. And then the root causes someone that has access to your data has left the organization. Okay. Got it. Okay. I see we go. Okay. Yep. Yep. Yep. We didn't go down that route. Do you have one planned downtime on your thing? Not specifically. It's in the root cause of some of the security and decreasing profits. I would pull. Yeah. See, see what you did. Yeah. You put unplanned downtime, which is the business problem. You put that in the root cause and then you made the impacts, the business problem. And again, you don't solve, you don't solve directly, if you will, the nonprofit, the profitability piece. You don't do that. Nobody does that. That needs, well, okay, that's not true. Maybe the account hits that directly. Right. So we'll target the spend, the software spend, and the increasing spend around that. Yes. So you could solve the problem of overspending in your software stack. That's correct. Or you, I prefer high IT operating costs. That's actually a real business problem. Okay. And I would also say that your downtime is also a problem. Unplanned downtime is absolutely a business problem. Okay. Now why goes down as the root cost? Yeah. That's a lot less common in the enterprise space than the high IT operating costs. Okay. For us. Okay. I appreciate that feedback. Thank you. Yeah, maybe. Absolutely. Was it helpful? Absolutely. All right, my man. All right. What's your biggest takeaway from today? Really? I got used to asking follow up questions. Big deeper on the answer. Get further down the problem path than I ever have been. Okay. So just for Greens and Giggles, I almost never go any longer. I see if I can, I'm going to try to emulate this way. Everybody can watch you still here. But yes, I like what you said, but also think that's the piece of it. I don't know how to teach that. I think it's just something but think. Right. So I want you to ask me, wait, how do I want to do this? I don't know if I can do this. Okay. Yes. I'm going to ask you quite. You give me a topic of something that you enjoy or any topic you want, right? And I'm going to ask you questions. And then I'm going to tell you my thought process for the next question. And my goal is to either try to find out if there's a problem with it or what your motivation to do it. I'm going to try to find something. And then, and I'm going to see it through the questions if I can get that. Does that make sense? Sure. Okay. Give me a topic. I want to cycle riding. Motorcycle riding. Okay. Are you a motorcycle rider? Yes. Okay. Is it a hobby you do regularly? In the summer, absolutely. Okay. So is there something about motorcycle riding that you don't like? Don't tell me what it is, but it's just something. Yes. Okay. All right. So, so I'm going to try to ask questions to figure it out. So I'm going to start easy. So everybody pay attention. I hope this works because I'm out on a limb. All right. So Paulo, how long have you been motorcycle riding? Almost 15 years. Okay. 15 years. What prompted you to start? My buddy's going for a long ride. Ah, long ride. So it's not just like a hobby with the little, it's you have a like a derro bike or a cross-country bike or something like that, correct? Yes. Okay. Everybody, I already won with my little experiment. Did you see what I did right there, Paulo? Did you see what I did right there? You took my answer and you dug one step further every time I answered the question. You only answered two questions, but what word did I key on? Everybody paying attention. You still here. What word did I key on? At the long. Long, long. You told me you won long motorcycle rides. I even know what you don't like yet, but I've already narrowed my conversation down to you most likely not a rice, a rice spurn or motorcycle. Right. So either a hardy guy or a BMW guy and I'm still probably going to bet your BMW guy or the BMW type or is it a Harley? What type of motorcycle? I have a docati. But docati. Okay. So that's more in the realm of the, I think it's called Enduro or whatever, right? Yeah. So it's a docati monster. So they're classified naked bikes. So they're not a sports bike, but a little more upright, less fairing, just wind in the face. Okay. But they also come with the bag things on the side. Yes, correct? Okay. So now what I would ask you to watch this, because remember my goal is to find out something you don't like. When you say long rides, could you define long rides? So we usually leave for five to ten days in a row. Okay. And so five to ten years. So do you do a loop? What do you go? You know, No, we lose we lose how far out from home before you start coming back to normally go Oh, man, we could go 1500 2000 miles 1000 miles before you start rotating back so be a 2000 bike ride and a thousand out thousand back Yeah, but easily we'll we'll hit 4000 loops Okay, all right, so you have as far as 2000 out it wow in ten days. So how long are you riding each day? Somewhere between six and 12 hours depending on what the next destination is but Okay, more likely closer to the 12 hour Okay, and and and what have you done? What do you have you bought or purchased to keep yourself from getting rash but but burn and all that type of stuff right what have you done for that? That hasn't been an issue so I haven't really no that's not where I focused my So when you're riding that long What is the thing that you find most frustrating other drivers rain? Rain in the cold I knew it all along, but I just wanted to demonstrate you know what I'm saying so watch what I do here to everybody So is there ever been a time where you have been on a 4500 or 8 9 10 hour drive all in the rain the entire time That first that first ride that first day Right, so now I'd say okay, no, I ask questions. So what type of rain gear do you have what do you do do you have it? Get so bad you have to stop you right but notice I don't I just use my what little knowledge I have about riding motorcycles I listen to every answer and I wasn't thinking about my next question I was literally just trying to understand your world and it's almost like 20 questions. I got it down to this right Yeah, and notice some questions. I asked how long do you ride? Not only that's how far as how long in a day that get creates an entirely different world for me than he's just riding a motorcycle Dude, I'm sorry. I didn't know where I'm sitting on a motorcycle 1250 house not my right but you love it How many friends you have with you? Where do you stay when you get there do you always have it? How do you get all of your supplies? I mean there's so many other places I could go to figure out what you don't like and then if I could make something up I'd sell your product but so was this helpful what I just did right there Absolutely everybody paying attention Yeah, Lori to wet see we got to work on your listening skills. I'm joking Yes, you already told us it could be as much as 4,000 in a loop 2,000 miles out 2,000 miles back over 10 to 15 days They don't joke around anywhere from 10 to 15 hours a day How many friends do you go? We usually go with a group of three or four but sometimes up to a group of eight Okay, and you guys all have the little headsets you can talk to each other the whole way Yes, we do All right, that's probably makes it more fun right so you can at least stay connected Just fucking The first few ride it was just the wind and The engine sounds but you know we've evolved since then good for you man good for you good for you All right, so was this helpful bro? I appreciate it. Yes, it was Alright, man. I love it. I love it everybody. I hope this is helpful to all of you guys who paid attention hung on You have been watching gap cell keen and this was episode 75 I just can't believe that I was thinking about that That's almost 75 hours Sitting on this in this chair sitting on this You know what I call sitting on this monitor talking to you guys 75 hours Man anyways hope everybody got something from it. This was a good one. I get Paulo mad props Paula you now, I think you already have but you don't you have free access to Get plus for being a participant anybody else if you have a product that you think I or ASG needs and you want to come on live and sell it to us Come on and let's see what you can do and if you find a problem that we have we will buy if not I will coach you all the way through it and you get yourself free access to get plus That can't get a better deal. You know, it's funny Little to end it with this You know how many emails I get Noted people reach out and wanting just 15 minutes of my time for a while. I offered it to every single one to come on. Guess me how many people came on Exactly Goose So they didn't want it that bad. So everybody till next time you know what I'm gonna say. Peace. I'm out. Thank you