Game Over Drew (part two)

(upbeat music) Hi, welcome to Creme Clueless, where your host, I'm Dana, and I'm Mara. We are back for part two of St.C. Peterson's case. If you haven't listened to part one, go listen to that first, because this one will make sense otherwise. - Yes. - You're jumping in right in the middle, and that sets up everything for this episode. So if you haven't, go listen, then join us back here for the conclusion. Should we jump right in? - Yep, I can't wait to find out more about this. So let's go. I liked your reaction when we finished part one. You were like, what? - I know it's, oh, there's so much to this case and it seems so flaringly obvious, but I can't wait to hear what happens. - Totally agree. - Well, if you remember in part one, we went through St.C.'s growing up, we went through Drew's growing up, his previous relationships. We got all the way to 2007 when St.C. was ready to be done with Drew. She was telling everyone she wanted to leave. She didn't like how controlling and manipulative he was, and we talked about the day of the 28th and Drew's version. Now we're gonna talk about that day a little bit more in depth and some outside viewpoints. On the evening of October 28th, around 10 p.m., Drew's step brother, Thomas Morphe, was at a local bar watching the World Series when he suddenly called a friend in a panic. That friend was a man named Walter and he said that an agitated Thomas told him he had done something terrible and needed to talk, but not on the phone. When they met up, Thomas confessed that a few hours earlier, he had helped Drew move a large heavy container from the upstairs master bedroom of Drew's house, introduce SUV. Thomas described the container as a rectangular blue plastic barrel about four feet long. He said it was, quote, "wormed the touch," which sent his mind racing to dark places. Yeah. Now this is Thomas' friend Walter talking and he says, quote, "He," meaning Thomas, "took me by the shoulders and told me I can't say anything." And he just told me that he thinks he helped dispose of Stacey's body and quote. Thomas was so distraught at the thought he attempted to take his own life later that night by overdosing on pills and alcohol. He survived that but had to be hospitalized. Yeah. This-- Why doesn't he-- He's really so bad about it. Why doesn't he call the police? I don't know. It's interesting that he reached out to a friend and told him the whole account and part of me wonders if he was hoping that friend would do that for him. I'm not sure. This account from Drew's own step brother would come out in the following days and it directly contradicted Drew's claim that Stacey simply left on her own. So if Thomas is to be believed something very sinister happened inside that house on October 28th. Yeah. The timeline provided by Thomas is even more incriminating. Thomas told investigators that on the evening of October 28th, Drew had picked him up around 7 p.m., took him to a coffee shop, and bizarrely left Thomas there with Drew's cell phone, instructing him not to answer it. While Drew was away, the bone ring and the caller ID read Stacey. Thomas didn't answer as instructed. Drew returned, collected Thomas, and that's when they went to the house to move the mysterious container. This obviously suggests that Drew possibly, probably used Stacey's cell phone to call his own phone around 7 or 8 to try to create evidence that Stacey was still alive and calling him at that time. Yeah, and having his phone ping somewhere else. Exactly. Not in the same place as where those call from Stacey was coming in. And I would bet money that he went to wherever he was saying Stacey was like the airport to make that call. Yeah. It seems like he's also like you said, trying to build that alibi, making it seem like Stacey was alive and left, and he was wherever Thomas was at that coffee shop. Because remember Drew later claimed that, quote, she called me at 9 p.m. And the fact that Thomas saw Stacey pop up on the phone while Drew was out there doesn't seem like it's Stacey actually calling. It's a little bit too convenient, right? Yeah, well, and he probably told him not to answer because he didn't want him to answer and have no one be there. He wanted to be able to say he'd talk to us. Exactly. Because then they want to know what she said. And you're creating a lie for yourself, exactly. Remember how Drew had taken the day off of work? We learned that he called around 2.30 p.m. saying his wife was missing. We also know that Drew was scheduled to work 8.5 p.m. to a 5 a.m. shift by calling out of work and arranging this odd evening with his stepfather. It appears that Drew cleared his schedule to deal with whatever he was doing that night. Not to mention a police officer not reporting his wife missing to his own department at 2.30 but telling them that he can't come in. It's almost as if he didn't want any cops sniffing around until he had taken care of everything. He didn't want them to come and investigate his house or look for her at 2.30. Yeah. The next day, Monday, October 29, Stacey's 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix was found parked at a local park just a few blocks from the Peterson home. Drew had hinted that it was somewhere in Bowling Brook during his call with Cassandra. And indeed, it wasn't at an airport as he'd first implied but near a park. Her purse and keys were inside, which further undermines the Stacey Randolph theory. Why would she leave the park at a park and why wouldn't she take her purse? Yeah. It doesn't make any sense. No. By midnight, on October 28, to now October 29, Cassandra did the right thing. She marched into the Bowling Brook Police Department and reported Stacey missing. It was 1.36 a.m. on October 29, when the official missing persons report was put into the system with the Bowling Brook PD. Cassandra also contacted the Illinois State Police to ensure that the case got attention. I mean, she had to have heard from Stacey about how Kathleen's death was handled. How quickly it was ruled accidental. They didn't really take it very seriously. First, maybe out of respect for their colleague Drew, the Bowling Brook PD didn't immediately treat it as foul play. Fortunately, that didn't last long. And I know, right? Because it really could have been that they just took his word for it all the day. Yeah. Like all the other times. Exactly. In the coming days, Stacey's disappearance did become front page news and a full-blown investigation. Family and friends mobilized search efforts, volunteers from Texas Equal Search, which is a renowned search and rescue group were called in to help scour the area, the lease and volunteer search fields forest and waterways looking for any sign of Stacey or clues to what had happened. Notably, searchers were specifically asked to watch for a large blue plastic barrel. Maybe on the tip from Drew's brother, third hand knowledge of a point, but at that time authorities played it close to the vest and they didn't really put out why that was part of the search. Drew's behavior at this time raised eyebrows. Instead of acting like a distraught husband, Drew seemed unbased. In fact, within two days of Stacey going missing, Drew got himself a high-powered defense attorney, a man named Joel Rodesky. And he was off doing TV interviews as one does. Okay. - Yeah. His stance was that Stacey took off with another man. He suggested she probably was sipping piniacladas on a beach somewhere. - Nice. - Yeah. This line would be repeated mockingly in the media given how flippant it sounded. - Yeah, well, Jenna, let me ask you, the kids home during all of this. Then they didn't hear anything or report seeing them taking the barrel out or anything. - Or do you think this isn't when they were at the neighbor's house, was it? Wasn't that same time frame? - That wasn't familiar in the afternoon. So that might have been when it actually happened or it could have happened somewhere else and he transported it in his car. I'm not sure. It doesn't seem like it. It seems like it happened at home, but the two were younger and then the other two were teenagers. So he could have said, hey, here's your whole day to play video games. Let's put these headphones on and play video games. And if you stop playing, then you have to clean. I mean, I'm not saying any of that is fact. I'm just thinking about how you could distract teenage boys or girls, you know? - Yeah. - To do what you want to do. - It is seem to me though with the little ones because I know my little five year old is attached to me most of the day. So yeah, which was really sad to think about because I think they were attached to Stacey. I mean, she never would have left them. - Yeah. - I wish I could find more about what the kids were doing. This has never gone to trial. So there's less known about it, I think. - Yeah. - If it does go to trial, which would be fantastic, I think we would get more of that timeline in details. - Yeah. - To the people that knew and loved Stacey, Drew's attitude was infuriating Pam, who is Stacey's family spokesperson and a close friend, said that Drew doesn't take it seriously. She said, quote, "The public is seeing that this is not a man concerned, that his third wife was declared a victim of a homicide or that Stacey has disappeared. As long as he keeps showing his side, it's fine. Let him be a joke in front of the media." End quote. So Drew's cool to him, to me, no, media tour was backfiring and he came off as callus and smug. And my guess is, he's already gotten away with it once. So he can be smug. He can get away with it again. - Exactly. And he's not entirely wrong. The media ate this up as one commentator quit the story of a pretty young missing wife of a cop whose previous wife dies suspiciously was, quote, "Your cat knit to news outlets. Cameras camped outside Drew's house every time he stepped out to get the mail or walk the dog, a whole group of reporter shouted questions. And rather than shy away from this, Drew often played to the cameras. He would crack dark jokes, which is just horrifying. He would smirk, he would flirt with the female reporters. It was bizarre to say the least. At one point, he surprised everyone by seemingly proposing to a 22-year-old woman just this completely unrelated person, only a few weeks after Stacey vanished. - Wow. - Something that turned out to be a media stunt, which will come back to you later. These antics reinforced a public perception of Drew Peterson as arrogant and untouchable. Just confident that he would never base consequences. By early November 2007, the investigation in DSTC's disappearance was in full swing. And Drew Peterson was officially named a suspect. On November 9th, 2007, less than two weeks after Stacey went missing, Illinois State Police announced that they were treating the case as a potential homicide and that Drew was the prime suspect. That same day, authorities made another bombshell announcement. They were reopening the 2004 death of Kathleen. - Oh, interesting. - Yeah. That's what I was thinking. - Right, happened. - Yeah. Now that you've got a second one, yeah. They exhumed her body to conduct a new autopsy. - Wow. - The implication was clear. They suspected now that Kathleen had been murdered and Stacey's disappearance was their reason to reexamine it. Drew Peterson's world was collapsing a little bit. He resigned from the Bowling Brook Police Department on November 12th, 2007. He had been briefly suspended during the early missing person inquiry, but now he quit entirely, which is interesting because he was really, really close to his 30 year mark where he would get full pension benefits for life, the whole deal. I find that a little bit of sweet justice, I think that because he had to quit, he doesn't get that. Yeah. He may have seen the writing on the wall, even some colleagues on the force who were once good friends of his were keeping their distance. Some old police buddies allegedly sold their stories about Drew to the tabloids, which he later winded out. Wow. But remember that letter that Kathleen had gotten saying that everyone in the department knew about it? Who knows what else they knew? What else he was bragging about over coffee at the water fountain thing, whatever. A water cooler. It cost the water cooler. Yes. Drew always defiant insisted that the investigation into him was a witch hunt. He maintained that Stacey left on her own, saying things like not every good mystery gets solved. Or this is not TV. It's real life. His lawyer would quote these same things to reporters. Behind the scenes, investigators were methodically building their case. The blue barrel story from Tom was given significant weight. So much so that Stacey police quietly arranged protective custody for Thomas, his step brother, and granted him immunity from prosecution in exchange for his cooperation. A full, heartedly, full force believed Thomas's account that he had unwittingly helped Drew dispose of a body. Unfortunately, and tragically, Thomas was haunted by these events. He couldn't shake it. And he did pass away by completing suicide in 2014. So bad. It is. It's really sad. I hope Drew feels guilty about that. Dragging him into it and destroying the rest of his life. Yeah. Before his death, he spoke publicly. And he said on Good Morning America in 2009 that he knew Drew had killed Stacey. And he said all the circumstances point to it. He revealed that Drew had approached him days before Stacey vanished, asking if Thomas loved him enough to kill for him. Or at least help him with storing something. Thomas thought Drew was talking about killing someone else. Maybe a boyfriend of Stacey's not Stacey herself. Thomas's testimony was pretty chilling and would have been key if a trial for Stacey had ever happened. Yeah. Back to 2007. Wild. It is. So wild. Yeah. And so sad. So unnecessary. Just-- He's just so selfish that he can't handle a divorce. Now that he's got Kathleen's life insurance money and his pension and everything that he deems his, knowing how the last divorce was going to go. Yeah. It makes me irate, actually. Yeah. Throughout November and December of 2007, search efforts continued intensively. Divers went through the Chicago Sanitarian ship canal, especially near the lock and dam, based on signals that perhaps the barrel or other evidence could be there. But unfortunately, they didn't find Stacey. They didn't find a body. They didn't find evidence. Nothing definitive was recovered in those searches. It says-- So sad. Yeah. Whatever happened to Stacey was effectively concealed. And in fact, to this day, Stacey's remains have never been located. Stacey's-- It is really sad because she always said for her kids, for her family. Yeah, awful. I mean, I know you never get closer, but that just feels like next level. Yeah. I don't understand why he won't say where her body is. Yeah. Stacey's family. especially Cassandra kept her name in the news. They organized visuals, impress conferences, leading for anyone with information to come forward. At one vigil shortly after Stacy vanished, some of Drew's own relatives tried to confront him. Emotions were high. There's an image of a crowd holding candles with signs for Stacy. The community really rallied behind the Peterson children and Stacy's family. Cassandra even publicly challenged Drew to take a lie detector test, which of course he refused. Yeah. The Peterson family, particularly Drew's older children, were caught in the middle unsure what to believe. And I feel for them so hard. I can't even imagine you don't want to think that of your father, but your mom died tragically. Your stepmom is now gone. And if he goes to prison, you've lost all the parents in your life, which was horrible. So horrible. That's really hard to be caught in the middle, especially with what had happened to their mom already. So tragic. Because I'm sure that they loved Stacy too, right? Been their mom for a long time. She had, and I'm sure Drew helped them get through that after that happened to their mom. Stacy, I mean, no after Kathleen died. I'm sure Drew helped them get through now that their mom scorned. So they probably built more bonds stronger. Yeah. I see what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they probably didn't see it with him as much. Yeah. I agree. I don't know. It's terrible. Yeah. We later learned that some of Drew's kids from his first marriage. So they would have been older and not in the home at the time did cooperate quietly with police turning over things like family computers to investigators truly house divided. Oh, being horrible. Yeah. Now, meanwhile with Kathleen's exhumation and autopsy that was completed by early 2008 and results were announced in February 2008. And the result was damning. Kathleen's death was officially ruled a homicide forensic pathologist found clear evidence of a struggle and injuries consistent with an accidental fall, which I don't know how you determine accidental fall versus shoved and pushed down exactly. I don't know how they're doctor Michael Baden, who was a famed pathologist consulted by Kathleen's family during the second autopsy. He stated, quote, I'm convinced she was the victim of a murder who done it is up to the least result. He noted that in his expert opinion, someone likely subdued Kathleen and placed her in the tub after she died. Will County State's attorney James Glasgow publicly concurred saying there was evidence Kathleen's death had been a homicide stage to look like an accident. Now who would have wanted to stage an accident? The obvious answer, someone who stood to gain from Kathleen's silence. Yeah. Yeah. One more bombshell came from this investigation. Kathleen had told others of Drew's threats in the past. In trial later, a close friend would testify that Kathleen once convided that Drew said to her, quote, I could kill you and make it look like an accident. Kathleen lived in here for a long time. Yes, years. Now if this hadn't have happened to Stacy, I don't know if they would have re-examined her death. Probably not. He probably would have gone away with it. Because her family pushed and tried to get it. Yeah. All up until Stacy went missing. Yeah. Kathleen had lived in fear of the very scenario that ended up playing out, which is so tragic too. By mid-2008, Drew knew that he was in prosecutors' crosshairs for Kathleen's death. But so far, he hadn't been charged with anything. He was a free man, albeit hounded by the media. But he seemed to enjoy that. And Drew being Drew just could not keep a low profile. In April 2008, he appeared on CNN's Larry King Live and other interview shows continuing to insist that he loved Stacy so much and she had simply left him. He didn't know why. At one point, he bizarrely said he missed Stacy and quote, loves her to death. Unfortunate choice of words there. Yes. He also offered a $25,000 reward for information on Stacy's whereabouts, which many saw as a complete PR gesture. It's like offering a reward for something you did that no one can ever claim. But you get to look like you're offering this $25,000 reward. Yeah. That like in the middle, the kids, yes, for who hit the cow and they're like, yes, they're like, they did it. Yeah, it was there. The ones that did it. Yeah. Yeah. That's exactly what I was thinking too, actually. Yeah. In May 2008, Drew was arrested on a weapons charge specifically for unlawful possession of a modified AR-15 rifle with a barrel shorter than allowed, which is a potential felony. This was seen by some as a pressure tactic by authorities to lock him up on something while they built their murder case. Drew posted bail and the charge was eventually dropped by November 2008. But it did signal to Kathleen's family and Stacy's family that law enforcement was finally keeping him on a short leash and really looking into these things. That's good. Drew pulled a stunt in December 2008, some more than a year after Stacy had been killed, that had everyone rolling their eyes, shaking their heads. He announced he was engaged to a 23-year-old woman named Christina. Yeah, engaged while his fourth wife was missing and his third wife's death was being investigated. And he's now quite a bit older. Yeah. He's 54 now and she's 23. His kids are quite a bit older than her as well as his first two. Yeah. Christina was roughly the same age Stacy had been when she disappeared. She apparently moved into Drew's house and even brought her children. It later came out that this engagement was largely orchestrated by Drew and perhaps his publicist to show that he was moving on. Christina's father was furious and publicly rejoiced when in January, so just a month later, Christina broke off the engagement and moved out. Christina then told CBS news that there was never a real engagement. She claimed she let Drew say it for publicity and so he could be in the media. If Drew, that's astonishing, Drew wanted to stay in the headlines, even the negative ones feeding off of this infamy that he has created. All of this only cemented Drew's reputation as frankly a narcissist and a manipulative person. He looks like a joke in front of the media because every time he opens his mouth, he's hurting his own credibility, which is what Pam Stacy's family spokesperson later said. Yeah. And the scenes though, a grand jury had been convened in late 2007, so not that long after they exhumed Kathleen to her evidence in both Stacy's disappearance and Kathleen's death. This grand jury met on and off for many months, dozens of witnesses testified. They had neighbors, they had Stacy's friends, Drew's co-workers, Drew's first two wives. They were working on piecing together patterns of Drew's behavior from every angle they could find. Finally, on May 7, 2009, the hammer fell. A grand jury and died a Drew Peterson for the murder of Kathleen Savio. And that same day police arrested Drew during a traffic stop not far from his home. It had been over five years since Kathleen's death and 18 months since Stacy vanished. But at last Drew was in handcuffs for some time. He was charged with two counts of first-degree murder and Kathleen's case, accused of drowning her and making it look like an accident. The arrested self was dramatic, tactical officers surrounded Drew's SUV at an intersection. And within moments, he was on the ground being handcuffed. News footage showed him being led away into custody. His face finally looking concerned for the first time. The cocky smugness gone. The community response was a sense of finally justice, at least for Kathleen. - Yeah. - Dacey's case, however, remained officially open. Andrew was not charged in connection with her disappearance, yet Drew's defense attorneys, he had a rotating cast of them by now, with that Joel Burdeski still being the most outspoken. They immediately began strategizing. They interdiply have not guilty. And for the next three years, so from 2009 to 2012, they engaged in as many breachyile battles as they could. And boy were they battles. One major hurdle was the issue of the hearsay evidence, prosecutors had a problem. Much of their case relied on what Kathleen and Stacey had told others about Drew. Now, obviously, neither woman could testify herself. Normally hearsay, which is an out-of-port statement offered for its truth is not admissible in court. But Illinois passed a law in 2008 specifically with Stacey's case in mind nicknamed Drew's law, which allowed hearsay statements if the prosecution could prove the defendant killed a witness to prevent their testimony. In essence, if they could show that Drew murdered Kathleen or Stacey to silence them, then what those women invited to friends, family, or officials before their deaths could be used as evidence, which, justing, is a little bit controversial, but ultimately upheld. You said that they heard from his other two wives, correct? The grand jury before they indicted him as they were trying to find out if they showed and died him did have his first two wives, yeah. Because I know you said the second wife, there was some abuse there for her and her daughter, right? That's not the same for Kathleen or Stacey, but it might shine some light on some character for him, right? Exactly. Show a pattern of his-- Was he abusive to his first wife, too? I didn't see that anywhere, but it does sound like he was controlling manipulative and emotionally abusive. And then he did cheat on her. His second wife, they were married for quite a while, like, 10 years. So, yeah. A, hearsay hearing. A hearsay hearing took place in 2010, where a judge heard all of these second hand statements to decide which could be allowed a trial. It was kind of this mini trial behind closed doors. Stacey's statements to her pastor and her divorce attorney were among those considered crucial. In the end, the judge allowed some, but not all, of the hearsay evidence. This included, importantly, Stacey's conversation with her pastor and Kathleen's statements to her sister and others about true threats. With that settled, the trial was ready to proceed by mid-2012. There were delays. Drew's team tried various motions, including one to lower the media profile around him, because thanks to his little media circus tour that he did, it was hard to find jurors who hadn't heard of the case. But a change of venue was denied. Eventually, they seated a jury in Illinois. In July 2012, Drew Peterson's murder for the trial of Kathleen, Savio began in the Will County courthouse. It had been a long time coming, over eight years. The prosecution's case was largely circumstantial. There was no smoking gun, so to say, no physical DNA evidence leaking drew to Kathleen's bathtub. Instead, the state presented a portrait of pattern. Drew's history of domestic violence, his threats, his opportunity, and motive to kill Kathleen, and the fact that Kathleen's death could not have been an accident. So if you have that, who else? Who else has anything to gain from this? Yeah. He witnesses in this trial included Stacey's pastor, a man named Neil. He was perhaps the most compelling testimony. He had counseled Stacey Peterson shortly before she disappeared. He met Stacey at a coffee shop in August 2007, about two months before she went missing, because Stacey had asked for spiritual guidance about what to do with her marriage. On the stand, Pastor Neil recounted Stacey's terrible confession. He said she was very scared. She had told him how Drew had woken up in the middle of the night the weekend that Kathleen died and vanished from their room. She went looking and eventually found Drew, standing by the washing machine, dressed in all black, shoving a bundle of women's clothing that did not belong to Stacey in the washer. Drew told Stacey that Kathleen was dead, even though at that point, the police had not yet informed anyone, and that police would be coming to question them. According to this pastor, Drew then quotes Stacey for hours on exactly what to say to police about Kathleen's death. In short, Stacey believed that Drew had murdered Kathleen and made Stacey provide this false alibi for him. During cross-exam, Drew's defense team tried to attack the pastor for not going to police earlier. They said she told you she lived with a murderer and you let her go back to the house, which means that the defense attorney accidentally referred to his own client as a murderer. So there's that. There's the hut. Yeah. The pastor calmly explained that Stacey had begged him not to tell anyone at the time, and he felt bound by her request and by clergy confidentiality until she disappeared, at which point he did go to police. When directly asked what Stacey's exact words were, he testified, quote, "She lived with someone who murdered someone." That statement landed like a thunderbolt in court. It was here to say yes, but permitted under the law, the new law. Yeah. Stacey's law. Yep. Stacey speaking from the grave, essentially, implicating Drew in Kathleen's death. Kathleen's divorce attorney was put on the stand, a man named Harry Smith. He-- it turns out-- had also spoken with Stacey just before she disappeared. Smith testified that Stacey called him in late October 2007. So really close to when she went missing. And this was Kathleen's divorce attorney, and Stacey was calling him too. OK. And I believe at the time he said it would be a conflict of interest for him to help her, but she had reached out to him. OK. She wanted to know what her legal options were. He said Stacey inquired about how much money she could get in a divorce if she threatened to tell police what she knew about Kathleen's murder. In essence, she was considering leveraging Drew's secret that he killed Kathleen to get a better divorce settlement. Smith's testimony painted Stacey as a wear and fearful of Drew's capacity for violence. It also introduced a possible motive for Drew to harm Stacey if she was about to spill what she knew about Kathleen. That gave him a reason to silence her. Yeah. And she could have told him that I'm going to divorce you and I'm going to tell everyone what you did. Yep, exactly. And that could not have gone over while if that indeed did happen. Yeah, no. They had Drew's second wife, Vicki, testified. And she was called to establish his pattern of abuse. So exactly what you were saying and what they brought her in for during the grand jury proceedings. She recounted how Drew had threatened her during arguments once saying the same thing we've already heard, quote, he could kill me and make it look like an accident. Vicki also described physical altercations and Drew's controlling behavior. This helped the prosecution show that Drew had a history of domestic violence long before Kathleen or Stacey. Yeah. The prosecution called people who were at this scene when Kathleen's body was found. A neighbor who discovered Kathleen's body cried on the stand describing how she was found was soaked hair but a dry bathtub. Investigators testified that there were no signs of forced entry at Kathleen's, but that Drew had the means to enter. He had a house key. And in fact, he snuck in once shortly before the murder an incident where he allegedly held a knife to Kathleen, which was something that Glasgow himself had mentioned in retrial hearings. They also brought the pathologist who conducted the second autopsy on Kathleen and the pathologist detailed Kathleen's injuries, a deep gash to her scalp, dozens of bruises and abrasions, inconsistent with a simple slip and thought. The pathologist gave the opinion that the injuries were result of a struggle and likely a drowning homicide. Throughout the trial, the defense strategy was to attack the credibility of all of these hearsay witnesses and to emphasize the lack of direct evidence. Joel, in his opening statement, told the jury, "You will hear nothing but myth, rumor, innuendo, and hearsay." He argued the state had no forensic proof, no eyewitnesses, not even a firm time of Kathleen's death because she was found two days after the last time she had been seen. The defense also suggested Kathleen might have died from an accidental slip after all and pointed out mistakes in the investigation, like some evidence that was not preserved from 2004 until the case was reopened, because it was world and accident, right? Yeah. They implied that the state was trying to make up for a botched original investigation by railroading drew now. There were some courtroom fireworks, too, from their end. At one point, the lead prosecutor, James Glasgow got so passionate, arguing for the admission of St.C. statements that he shouted, "This evidence should have life," basically imploring the judge to let a woman who couldn't either herself let her voice be heard. Yeah. The judge did allow it, but not before justizing Glasgow for the procedural slip. The trial had a few moments where the judge had to admonish the state for mentioning things in front of the jury that they weren't quite supposed to bring up. The defense at one juncture moved for a mistrial over these issues, but the judge denied it. He did scold the prosecution for disrespect to the court when a witness blurted something that was already deemed inadmissible. This shouldn't have been brought up. After weeks of testimony, the jury began deliberations in early September 2012. It didn't take long. They found Drew Peterson guilty of the murder of Kathleen Savio on September 6, 2012. The verdict was a moment of joy of this justice finally for Kathleen's family. It can't bring her back, but knowing that you have justice is important. I'm sure they all knew for the past eight plus years that it was him. I'm sure they never doubted that. Agreed. Drew's later revealed that they hear say evidence, especially Stacey's and Kathleen's own words convinced them to convict. One juror told the press that they believed the verdict was just, and indeed they felt that Kathleen had spoken from beyond the grave. Cassandra's, D.C. sister was also at the courthouse for the verdict. She expressed a mix of triumph and determination. He'll be charged. It'll come. Cassandra's confident that eventually Drew would also face charges for whatever happened to Stacey. Kathleen's case was only part of the story, and Stacey's family really didn't want her to be forgotten after this. On February 21, 2013, Drew returned to court for sentencing. It turned into pure drama. This final chance for Drew to speak, and he certainly did that when given an opportunity to address the court, Drew, who's usually smug and composed, suddenly launched into a yelling tirade. In a loud shaking voice, he shouted, "I did not kill Kathleen over and over, startling everyone in the courtroom." It was the first time the public had seen him so emotional. Someone in the galley yelled back, "Yes, you did, prompting them." Yeah. I feel like it would be hard not to. Yeah. That prompted the judge to order the spectator to leave. Drew then rambled that police had framed him, that they altered evidence, they intimidated witnesses. He claimed that he loved Kathleen. She was a good mom. She didn't deserve to die. He is speaking as if acknowledging her murder while denying that he did it. At one point, he mentioned getting a tattoo on his back, reading, "No good deed goes unpunished," which is an odd statement, maybe referring to his claim that he helped so many people as a cop. It was now being punished for something he didn't do. I find it interesting he's blaming the police for doing all of these things when that was his whole career. Why does that come to you so fast? What did you do? What did you do? How about? Yeah. Did you know of things that maybe they did cover some things or botched some things on purpose? Was that your alternative things intimidated witnesses? Yeah. Was that part of you too? I feel like it's coming from somewhere. Co-workers? Right. Exactly. The judge was unmoved by Drew's words and outbursts. He denied all defense motions for a new trial. Drew's team had tried to blame each other. His lead defense attorney and the co-counsel had a nasty feud and Drew attempted to claim ineffective counsel. Thankfully, that went nowhere. The judge then sentenced Drew to 38 years in prison for the murder of Kathleen Savio. At 59 years old, that was essentially a life sentence. Drew's earliest possible release date was calculated as 2047 when he'd be well into his 90s. Outside the courthouse, Kathleen's family expressed relief and a sense of justice. They were happy about the verdict obviously and about the sentence. I feel like sometimes those come down in there 10 years or 12 years or something that just doesn't feel enough. Kathleen's nephew, a man named Michael, said that his aunt can finally rest in peace. He said, quote, "Today is a day for battered women, not just Kathleen. My aunt's voice was heard through the grave. She would not stop. They will listen to you now, highlighting how Kathleen's own words, though here say, had helped convict a killer. Today's C's family were there too. They directed some choice words at Drew. Kissandra, who has never stopped pushing for answers, looked straight at Drew as he was let out and said, "Game over, Drew." She told reporters he can wipe that smirk of his face. It's time to pay. Seeing him headed to prison possibly forever was at least some comfort that he can't do this to anyone else. Yeah. Even though he wasn't convicted in Stacey's death, at least he's behind bars and paying for something else, I feel like we've seen that in some other cases too, where they've obviously killed a few people along the way and get caught for one, but maybe not a trial for another, but at least they're behind bars. And not able to hurt someone else. Yeah. Because not living their life while your family member is gone. Right. It is important to note that still to this day, Drew has never been charged in Stacey's case. She officially remains missing, presumed dead, but nobody, no direct evidence. They don't have what they need yet. Will County authorities have stated that Stacey's case is still open and active? In 2012, after Drew's murder conviction, the state's attorney said they were close to charging Drew for Stacey's death, but they needed more evidence. Perhaps they were hoping that Drew would cut a deal or confess an exchange for leniency, but that never happened. Drew maintained his innocence regarding Stacey and he still does this day. Stacey's family at one point sought to have her declared legally dead to help bring closure and perhaps prompt charges, but that hasn't happened yet either. Cassandra continues to search incredibly. She has spent years doing her own sonar scans of canals and ones in 2018 and again in recent years. Cassandra believes that she has located human remains on sonar in the canal where the blue barrel they think was stopped. She has publicly beded authorities to do more dives. I just want to bring her home. I know where she is. Cassandra has said, frustrated with the lack of official action. That's crazy. Yeah. And if she found human remains and they're not Stacey's, who did she find? Yeah, let's figure it out. I can't believe that they're not looking more into that. The FBI and state police have looked at some of her findings, but no recovery has been announced. So we can admire Cassandra's devotion. She promised to never stop looking for Stacey and she has absolutely lived up to that promise. As for Drew, history didn't quite end with his murder conviction. In 2015, this is amazing and just ridiculous. Drew was caught in prison plotting to kill the prosecutor James Glasgow. Yes, even behind bars, he couldn't help but try to plan a murder. Mom. Yeah, it's like wild. One of the wildest cases and such a completely insane narcissistic person. And he just keeps going. He tried to hire a fellow inmate to arrange a hit on Glasgow. I'm guessing out of revenge for the case. Unfortunately for Drew, the inmate was an informant in 2016. Drew was convicted of solicitation of murder for hire. And he got an extra 40 years added onto his sentence. More than what he got for his murder conviction. That's insane, right? I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't make sense, but at least we know he's never getting out. For sure, never ever, ever getting out. Glasgow later commented that the defendant in this case was a coward and a bully expressing that Peterson thought he could get away with anything. So now with a total of 78 years to serve, Drew's projected release date is sometime after 2018. And all likelihood he will die in prison. He's been shuttled between different prisons for security. At one point, other inmates attacked him for bragging about his crimes. He also lost his police pension after all of these convictions. So stripping away that. They couldn't give that to his kids. It is. And part of me wonders about the life insurance that he got from Kathleen Steth. Yeah. If they were able to get it, I really hope they were. Yeah. That would so too. Be awful. Yeah. At least are still looking for information. It's been over 18 years since D.C. disappeared. Really, the only living person because his brother has also passed away. It's Drew and he isn't talking. I really hope that he does eventually tell police where to look or what happened. Something to give her family some sort of closure or justice or whatever the case may be. I hope so too, but I don't have faith that he will. Yeah. He's. I think he's too not a good human. No, I think he's too narcissistic still. Thinking he got away with it. Right. I don't think he'll give that up. I don't know. Well, and he has kind of gotten away with it because that has nothing to do with why he's some person. Right. He wants to keep thinking he's gotten away with it. Yeah. It's probably that shred of I would have been charged for Kathleen's death, whether Stacey disappeared or not because she probably would have told somebody so he can keep that as his, I don't know, got away with some badge of honor. I don't know. It's criminal badge of honor. Right. So it's so sad. That's what we've said before. If you get convicted and you're going to be in prison obligatory to tell everything else. Yes. I wish. If there's one takeaway from this case, it's that patterns of abuse and violence often signal worse to come. Kathleen did everything she could to alert people. She wrote letters. She told family. She even predicted, quote, he will kill me. Those warnings were not heated in time. Stacey Peterson saw the writing on the wall and was taking steps to escape. But leaving an abuser is the most dangerous time experts always say. And Stacey unfortunately faced that truth. Yeah. The Peterson case leaves us with a somber lesson about believing victims and thoroughly investigating suspicious incidents the first time. Had Kathleen's death been handled properly in 2004? Perhaps Stacey's story would have ended differently. And we can't be right. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But we can ensure that Stacey and Kathleen's stories are not forgotten. And let's just hope that someday the Peterson children, all of them get the full truth about what happened to their mom. Stacey's family. Yes. That is the story of Stacey Peterson and Kathleen and Vicki and Carol. Yeah. I guess, true. It's in there too. But not giving him credit. So sad. It is. It's really sad. It's so sad that I don't know when you get divorced the first time with abuse and all these things as the cause for getting divorced that someone else comes in and believes that he's a good person and that the other person's lying and he didn't do those things. And the same thing happens multiple times and he's just so sad. It is that after the first time that first wife is being like, "Hey, don't worry this guy. Here's what he's doing to me." Right? And that they would believe them. Yeah. I don't know. It is important. It's important to believe when someone tells you that. Yeah. He is such a smooth talker. He's so good at starting those relationships and knowing the right thing. He's just saying. Yeah. Exactly. And he's manipulative telling them, "I'm sure that the last wife is lying." And I'm just so unfortunate. I'm guessing since he didn't have kids with Vicki and Carol's kids were older, Stacey probably didn't ever meet those two. I might not have. Yeah. And so you're not getting multiple women's accounts. Yeah. They had some help and able to warn her. Yeah. Just so sad how it even started with Stacey and Drew's relationship. He did that over and over and over. I always started the next one before the live-in-one. Yes. That's even more unfortunate because you don't have a lot of history or your life experience to go off of. And she just came from such a broken, yeah. You think of background that it seems like he was able to make it seem like he's the best staffer. Yeah. Really sad. I hope that they find her. And if she really is where Cassandra is saying that they look there, I hope so too. So we'll keep an eye out for this one because I would like to see her get justice. Yeah. Whether she's already in prison or not. She just touched on another 40 years. Yeah. Exactly. Not that it matters, but it's the principal. It is. Going to die there. But yeah. It's the principal of he was convicted and we know it was him. And we found her body and we were able to pin it on him. Exactly. Wow. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. We really appreciate it. If you want to see the resources that we use to create this episode or read more about this case, you can check out our blog. It's on our website, crimeclueless.com. If you have questions or want to connect with us, you can find us on social media on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, YouTube. We are at crimeclueless. We would really appreciate if you would wait and review our show. It means the world to us. We look at every single one. Yeah. It's the best. It's also a free and easy way to help out our show. Takes two seconds. So you can do that on Apple or Spotify. If you're on YouTube, we would love if you would follow our YouTube channel. We're working on growing that. Thank you again. And as always, remember, we've used to be the list, careless or caught off guard. Not today, murders. Bye. [Music]