Gabon and South Africa w/ Hamilton Morris | You Be Trippin' with Ari Shaffir

Hello and welcome back everybody to an exciting new episode of Ubit Tripp. We got a banger today. Hamilton Morris makes his return to the podcast fresh off his award for 2025 trippy for best drugs is nomination for best episode both for his trip to China that you can get right now. On the Ubit Trippin podcast channel you can subscribe wherever you're watching this and please do that. Please hit subscribe button right now. Hamilton Morris is a great guest. He's an exciting guy. He's a journalist and a chemist. He might know him originally from Hamilton's Pharmacopia that was on Vice for many years and now he's got his own Patreon and he's just kind of doing independent journalism based on like chemical like psychedelic and drug research and today is no exception. We got a great episode on South Africa and Gabon kind of went back and forth. He went from jungles to devious deceit governmental levels. Sit back and welcome to an exciting episode. Of Ubit Trippin. No, I love New York. I'm really sad to leave in New York. I know. I know. It was just like I don't know. I moved here. Okay you can start. We'll start whenever but I want just time to freeze. If you have that time free you can be off doing something and then like nothing changes while you're gone. Yeah. I mean it's not realistic but it's kind of what I want. Yeah. I don't know. Do you hear about the. I guess you did. Broken and the I began stuff. You want to talk about recording? Yeah. This will be like a teaser or something but I want to. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I heard about it. I'm curious if you have additional insight into what happened. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I guess back up before Rogan even there's the leader who's very divisive in this country. I've heard about him. Yeah. And everyone hears about him. So when I went back packing everybody was like what about we're then we have the number one most well-known bad guy or whatever. You know. So I would always be like I don't want to talk about this but tell me about your guy and they'd always be like "My guy's so crooked like thank you for seeing me." And then all the LA people in the comedy world if they ever came in contact with Trump they would they would see it as like a photo op. So you have like high-level comics wives like give him the finger as he walked by and it's like all right well you haven't done anything. You're just going to have a lot of likes from your friends. Right. And then you know Rogan like I don't know. I hate when comics get into politics but he kind of did but he's like respectful of the president. So he doesn't like some of the war stuff you know and I think he doesn't like hold that back but then like I don't know how crooked the guy is but like if this doesn't affect anybody's pockets of his friends you know and this guy has always been nice to him. Joe Rogan is always respectful. He's like "So he had this guy named Ed Clay, this friend of ours who was telling about I began like 15-18 years ago. He goes you should do it. It'll like stop your drug habits addiction and I was like that's I'm not addicted I enjoy it. But he goes it's just really good you should do it. It's not a fun drug but he goes all these jiu-jitsu guys have massive pain and they have like PTSD and they get addicted opioids. Opioids? Opioids? Whatever pain pills are. To make up for it. And then this is I mean probably 18 years ago this guy was telling us about it. It's guy in Nashville and then I guess Rogan had an audience with Trump and he was like hey dude I think that guy probably mentioned it again. He was like hey this stuff is helping like veterans also. Stuff I think would get in Trump's head like you know let's do that. He doesn't seem like he cares about you know they were asking about like Israel Palestine and he was like we got to do whatever and they were like no it's a two-state solution and Trump just goes I mean does that seem like it's working. You tell me does the two things that's been working great. So he has like that way of talking about it so he was like all right let me look into this and I think he called him back like the next day. I think he got pushback from the drug companies because they were like this is you know this is stepping on our Trump did yeah do you know for a fact that that happened? No but that's what I can kind of gather. He got some pushback from the drug companies and he was like you're doing it and then they're like oh yeah no totally you know that was the thing it seemed so casual I mean even in the Oval Office meeting yeah like I texted the president said you've got to make I began legal and now we're doing it and was it truly that casual I mean wait do you know to what extent it's gonna be legal or no to what extent this is calculated like a calculated play for Joe. No I don't think it was that at all I think not it I mean in terms of calculated plays this is one that I entirely agree with. Well I mean he's been a he's been a psychedelic guy you know for forever. Yeah that's why I ask. Yeah so he's always and he's always very publicly going like this is really great nobody gets addicted to mushrooms you know all that stuff he's been very open about at DMT and stuff before everyone knew what it was I think he saw an end on a conversation and he was like hey let me tell you some I mean I was talked I was doing my so it's like in terms of ends I had two knee surgeries one knee to knee years apart and it started to get worse minuscule and I got back from backpack and there was like really painful I got a quarter zone shot and I got back and I was talking to it's so funny when I covid came up people like I would never listen to Joe Rogan on health stuff and he's like I'm like he's my number one guy I listen to like fish oil for joints all that I've always gone to him for that he's the he's the the health guy in our group so anyway and I was like hey I'm gonna get another surgery I talked to my doctor my doctor I was like any stem cell shit and he goes maybe Panama but I don't know and Joe's like no fuck that I know a guy that can that we do stem cells here already and I was like really because yeah your your doctor doesn't know shit and so then I got stem cell shots and I was like okay we'll see if it works it takes like a year but like he's my point is work it's starting to but he said it takes about a year because they like rebuild your muscles or injuries but he wasn't offering me that until I brought up I'm gonna have surgery again you know I mean the conversation was like he saw him in I bet it was something like that somebody maybe I'd clay talk to him again and then he goes you know what actually I've become since I talked to you last I've become text buddies with the sitting president you know let me see here yeah because people have been trying to do this for a very long time I mean this goes back to the 60s this has been a long road to get to the point of medical recognition of I began so I'm very pleased if this is moving forward I really do think it will help a lot of people there's always controversies where people say oh addictions more complicated than just a sure whatever yeah sure but it does I mean I've seen it I think with the antidepressants I like they're over prescribed I'm like I don't know they help me maybe they do over prescribed them but I was ready to fucking end it which ones do you take it was I tried a few and none of them worked or the side effects were too great yeah it was making my life worse it was an 80s joy that kind of went out of style my doctor told me I forgot which one I was in it for me what in it for me no discipline discipline discipline maybe just I forget I'll tell you later I guess to look at I'm off them okay but like let's help me yeah so you can say it's over prescribed but also like that doesn't mean it's always wrong right they're tools yeah anything else and I've again is like from whatever it says it's like no one's doing this recreationally they said it's like an awful drug I don't think it's an awful I've used it I think it's a not only do I not think it's awful I think it is like one of the most amazing things during you have fun with it but it depends on how you define fine I mean there there are people that yeah not conventional fun not not like take this and go to a party take off right right okay okay thanks not take this and go to a party you're doing great hooray you just got a nico-rog where they let him prove his mom was a dissident not like that that's right my fun recreational use yeah but it's not but pain it's not necessarily painful I mean one of the weird things about I began is you have a skewed user base because most of the people that are taking it are dealing with some kind of really severe addiction problem which is going to in the same way that like skewed people taking cancer chemotherapy are probably predisposed to really not enjoyed although I think chemotherapy is wouldn't be enjoyable for anyone but you have an entire patient population that definitionally are not in good shape dude let's try recreational chemo yeah that's until you until you've tried it with someone with no pain you wouldn't know yeah yeah it could be amazing it's like those uh whatever those pills are that makes you clean your apartment but then if you take it if you if you have like 80 day it just calms you down that wrong you know the opposites yeah I wonder about that yeah yeah chemo's probably not the best example but yeah a lot of the people taking I began are really in the throes of a intractable addiction struggle and they have to face their demons and whatever they've been avoiding and it can be really psychologically. - That was it, Dishypermean. - Dishypermean. - Yeah, that is it. - It primarily used to treat depression. - Dan, that's interesting. They got you on one of the-- - It's crazy also. - Oh, the magic. - The weed used, I can remember that name. I haven't taken it in about a decade. - That's more crazy than they got me on that. - Yeah, I'm not a hater when it comes, I mean, that's not like technically necessary, but it's similar enough. And I'm not a hater when it comes to those drugs. I agree that they're over-prescribed, but I think they're valuable tools. - I could feel it while butron was like, "Is that working?" And like, you know, you gotta get the dosages right. And then I couldn't come, which was like quite annoying. And I didn't know about that side effect until it started happening. - Yeah. - And I was like, "I know what's going on." And then my chick ran the bag of the box. She's like, "Of this." - With the Dishypermean. - No, with while butron. - Oh. - Or one of those. - That's interesting because it's usually considered Dishypermean when surprised me. While butron usually doesn't have sexual side effects. - Yeah, it might have been another one too. - Okay. - And each other, four, and nothing was work. And then this one was like, boom, there it is. I'm back. It was like, "Oh, for sure." - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah. - So there wasn't like a question of like, "Yeah, maybe this is working, maybe not." But anyway, what were you saying about advocate? - That it's painful for people that are using it in the context of a life or death struggle with substance use disorder because they've got a lot of stuff going on psychologically, a lot of-- - So what do you get off it? - Well, I was really interested in the traditional use of it because, you know, it's a West African traditional medicine. There's a religion in West Africa that worships Evoga. And it's like a synchritic Christian religion where they've integrated these West African mythology into Christianity. So there's this very strange hybridization where the tree of knowledge of good and evil is Evoga. And they have created a truly spectacular way of using this drug that's like, it's basically everything that is missing from Western medicine where like the way that the drug is administered is almost as important, if not more important than the drug itself. Like, there's a huge fasting endurance ritual, there's dance, there's music, there's community, they emphasize all these symbolic processes that force you to-- - Unity. - Yeah, community's a huge part of it. Yeah, it's like a giant celebration. So, you know, when you think about addiction treatment, it's like you're taken away from your community or put in some kind of sterile place where you can access drugs or the bunch of other drug addicts and, you know, it can potentially be very isolated. It does help some people. But this is like, you're thrown into this massive ritual and kept in it for days and days, they keep administering the Evoga. In some instances, they'll bury you alive so that your head is sticking out of the soil, facing the sky, and you spend the night tripping with your head sticking out of the ground, looking at the stars to contemplate your own mortality. And they do this to children, and elderly. - Yeah. - Yeah, that's the ayahuasca thing that kind of impressed me is that is, you know, how it's treated here, among the whites, but there it was just like, talking to like tribes members, whatever's running lodges. They were like, oh, we've all done it. Like, there was no stigma. They were like, yeah, I've done it. It's number two. So I was like, it's staying in a lodge. I was like, I don't know if I can have pork today 'cause I'm doing something in like a week. And I was like, he was like, what? I'm like, ah, something is-- I was like, yeah, I was like, oh, yeah, you're fine. It's a week out, you're fine. And I was like, you've done it, you've got like 10 times. He goes, it would be like a principal calling you in. It was like, hey, next Monday, I need to talk to you in my office. So tell your mom, fish only for the next week. And I'll follow up, but I'm gonna need to talk to you. - Yeah, it's really cool to see how these cultures just haven't-- - It's a guidance counselor thing. - And they've just integrated it, so it's not a big deal. And you can see how all of this insane baggage that we have in the United States surrounding drugs is ridiculous when you go and it's doctors and lawyers and the entire community, they're all tripping together. And it's just the thing that they do. It's part of their origins, part of their traditional medical practice, why wouldn't you do this? It doesn't need to be justified. You don't need to make some claims about how it heals this or that percent of people with this or that disorder to what degree it's just, of course, of course you do this. We all agree. It's a beautiful, beneficial part of our lives and for some reason you didn't wish to participate. And presumably you wouldn't have to. - Yeah, it's like going to the dentist every year. - Yeah. - You're not like, well, what's the research? Just like, I don't know, you go in there and let Dr. Fishman tell you what to do. Yeah, it really felt like there was a town when I did it in Ecuador and there was like a few border line Amazonian towns, like the Amazon, with like the river, whatever the mountains come in here and the Amazon kind of starts. So there's all these towns that are borders for different rivers. And this one guy who worked in the like tourism board and he goes, we should separate ourselves from other towns will be the one that offers like Ayahuasca. And he said the rest of the tourism board was like zero chance. We're not getting a bunch of drug addicts in here. It's like, fuck up our town. And he's like, it's not that, they're not gonna be here. But then one by one he goes, can I get you like a trip? And they're like, yeah, I'll do it, but I'm not gonna fuck up the city. And then one by one he warmed down afterwards they were like, oh, this isn't gonna be, they were all like, well, I'm done for a year at least. This is no one's gonna be living here doing Ayahuasca every day. So like this actually isn't the problem I thought. It seems like after I became. - Oh, yeah, in West Africa, it's definitely not much of a tourist industry. - Hi everybody. I'm Stan with comedian Ari Shafir. And there's one thing you know about me, 'cause I love to travel. Salute from Kluzna Polka, Romania. Yasu, oh no. Cheerio, and Greece, I got Bert Fadal, Saganaki Yonuzo, and I got attacked by a herd of wild cats. I danced for 14 hours in a warehouse in Berlin on some of the finest lab-made chemicals known to man. - I pissed on that. - I also like hearing about other people and their adventures. - There was a few moments we'd be out at sea and be like, we are in literally the middle of fuck off, no way. - Wow. - What is it, Kulka? Some people don't know. - It's basically like a little marsupial. See there, I gave him a chip. - You're going 90 miles an hour. - I'm doing 90, he passes, you're not even moving. - Wow, so I decided to start a new podcast called UB Trippin, it's a travel podcast. Every episode, myself and guests are going to take it to an exciting new place in the world. It's a new podcast from YMH. Subscribe right now on YouTube to UB Trippin Pod and on all audio podcast platforms at UB Trippin. You get ready for a brand new travel podcast. Kulka, that's stale. I'll see you out there. - Historically in Mexico, there was a little bit of that. - With eye-booking? - No with mushrooms, specifically in wahaka. Because it's so easy to forget that we didn't know that psychedelic mushrooms grew in the United States. Such a crazy thing because they grow everywhere. But some, and people knew that these species existed, but they didn't know about psilocybin. And so nobody had really connected the dots. It's actually kind of mind blowing to think that no one in the entire country, as far as I can tell, I've seen some, well, not, had ever tripped on mushrooms. Like, it's when they're, - It's like newer? - Well, they were everywhere. - Yeah. - And just, I guess, nobody ate them or if they did, it wasn't documented. There was like one dairy farmer in Florida named Silva Capertan. - Wait, people weren't doing mushrooms, what do you mean? Mushrooms is huge. Is that more recent? I mean, up until, like, our Gordon Wasson went to Wahaka and wrote about psychedelic mushrooms in Life Magazine in the 1950s. Like, before that, before this kind of psychedelic revolution, there was no one that had just noticed, hey, don't eat those mushrooms off the cow patty, they make you go crazy. - All right. - This was like, very much could have been discovered. It was surrounding everyone and no one appears to have noticed or if they did, it's not documented. - Anyway, so hold on, we're supposed to talk about travel. - Anyway, that's what I gather with Rogan and Trump that he just said it, and then he goes, and I'm like, you think mushrooms will be next, he goes, it's part of it. Mushrooms are part of this. Silaslaivan. So I don't know when it's supposed to happen, but like, I think mushrooms are gonna be legalized to a degree. - There's definitely a lot of movement in terms of pharmaceutical medical approval of Silaslaivan. That's probably gonna happen next year. - It's kind of lucky that he's gonna be in office for not just like six more months, so the next time I can't go, we're stopping that. Like, if I enough time, I was hooking up with this chick from Florida State during Trump's first election, and I asked her how she feels. Like, you know, what's the college vibe of Trump getting elected the first time? And she goes, I mean, you know, we're all like, we're in college, we're all pretty liberal, so we don't like it, but we got legalized. So we figured this gotta be gone in eight years, but we it's here to stay now. So we're all like, nice. - Yeah, it's weird too, because it's not really part of his platform. - No, it seems like he'd be against it, right? - It's entirely due to influence from outside parties that he is just more open to. - I bet he texts Joe and go, what do you think of that fight? Just like, oh, dude, yeah, he fucking nailed it. I think, I mean, that's how we all text with him, you know? (laughing) Or like have you ever heard of this, Joe? I mean, I don't know what he would text Trump about, but like, Joe's cool. (laughing) I don't know if I can recognize that. I bet he texted about fights. Yeah, it's good. I mean, it's good that it's happening, whatever administration does it. It's kind of shameful that it didn't happen sooner, that it took this long. I mean, I've seen firsthand what it's like in the DEA and it's just a bad situation. There was a, I don't think we talked about this last time, but there was a big move to prohibit these two psychedelic drugs that are very valuable in scientific research. And it was kind of like the opposite of IBegin where you have all this evidence that it's medically valuable. And so you can make this argument like it's helping addicts and there are people that use it and they have these benefits. With these drugs, there was barely any evidence that a human being had ever used them. They were incredibly obscure drugs. Why did they legalize them? That was the question. This was, and just with Reagan sweeping, like all of it, people don't know how bad it is. People know that cannabis is illegal and that LSD is illegal and that mushrooms are illegal. But if you actually go through the full list of controlled substances, it's like 450 drugs. And that's just the listed ones. And if you start going into other interpretations of the law, it can easily jump into tens of thousands of substances. So this got so far out of control. Look at all this. What do you suppose to, oh my god, wait a minute, freeze for a second, let me just read one of them. Methylode hydroxide, MDI, okay, love drug, MDMA, I know those. And China, white fentanyl, dihoxy, five-end, oh my god. How many of these have you tried? One or two, but this list is absurd. There's not a pharmacologist alive. 24 pages of that. 24 pages. Yeah, yeah. It's a long, it's an absurdly long list. There's not a pharmacologist in the world that could list all of these drugs or explain all of their structures and pharmacologies. We caught you with some febacan, you're going to prison for a long time. Yes. Yeah. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah, this is like, and the list is absurd, it includes things that aren't even drugs, things that shouldn't be on the list, but no one has pushed back historically. They've just been able to get away with this for a half century, just keep throwing more drugs on the list, who's going to stand up for febacan? There's no, one of the problems with democracy is that if you have something that's a problem, but it might look like something else, no candidates going to be like, "I'm out if I defend this." There was some study that said there's not a very big instance of recidivism. It's like once and then they're done for the most part, but anyway, okay, but you're a child predator forever, so you have to register as a sex offender, and then like, okay, but now you're back in society. You got out after seven years or 10 years, and now you have to get a job, and I feel like out-line cook, and then they hire some 17-year-olds front-greeder that like, "You can't work here anymore. You got to go." And it's like, "Well, how are they going to be part of society anymore?" And then it's like, they don't really do it again, is what the studies have shown. I do it all the time, but I'm in the minority, but they don't really do it again, and they have to be part of our society, or they'll just be homeless, and that won't be great. But no candidate's going to go, "We have to rehabilitate pedophiles." They're done. They'll never win again. It seems like this too. It's like, you're pro-legalizing a drug that got your opponent's going to use that against you. Yeah. Yeah, they do. They absolutely will. I mean, this happens with harm reduction as well, where it's like, "Oh, Biden wants to distribute crack pipes to people. This is absurd." Right. So, harm reduction, needle exchanges, things like that are good. They prevent the spread of diseases. They prevent overdose deaths. Yeah. This is like, an absolutely beneficial thing. And yeah, this is just one of these issues where I think the DEA got very spoiled by decades and decades of doing this with almost no pushback. And in the small number of instances where there was pushback, it was unsuccessful. It's good that people tried. I mean, with MDMA, they really tried in 1986 and they tried with cannabis as well to such an extent that the DEA's own administrative law judge ruled that both of those substances should not be schedule one and the DE ignored that recommendation. It's great. It's so many people smoke weed. Yeah. That was the number one, like legalize it, you know, for so long. And it creates this really absurd scenario where part of the definition of something being a schedule on substance is that it has no medical use, but cannabis does have a medical use. So what do you do? How do you allow the medical use of a drug that has no medical use? And what they do is they then bifurcate the scheduling so that one substance simultaneously occupies multiple legal schedules, which is ridiculous. But again, this whole thing is so ridiculous and they've become so accustomed to ridiculousness that it's just like part of the, in fact, with teeth she it's trifurcated and occupies three different schedules. What schedule one, one, two and three. What's three? Ugly clothing? [laughs] By the way, it's nice that marijuana is legalized now because weed fashion was disgusting for so long. Yeah. It's just all fucking pot leaves. What? You seem to have sort of weed adjacent fashion? No. No. No. No. No. The funny suit, the marijuana weed leaves all over them. So yeah, but I think you got a psilocybin NMDMA on this thing. There's going to be accelerated development, it would seem, yeah, which is good. In the case of psilocybin and in the case of NMDMA, a lot of the heavy lifting had already been done. I mean, it was a very arduous process that took an extremely long time because going up against this apparatus is nuts. And just any bureaucracy, trying to explain to the DMV that like, I have a license, I just lost it. You know, and it's just, they'll never go, "Oh, I see your problem here. Okay. Let's get you another one." This is worse though. I think this is actually one of the worst things in terms of, yeah, because it's like, there's so many issues in politics that are complicated where there's like different sides to something whereas with this, I really think it is serving no social purpose that is constructive. If the idea is that it prevents people from using drugs, it doesn't. It demonstrably fails at that goal. I always thought that the weed thing was the alcohol companies saying, "No, don't take our market," so they were fighting it. And also then the wards and the prisons were like, "No, that's half our business, so you can't make that legal. We lose a bunch of our business." With prisons definitely, with the alcohol, the question is, if there's, if they're concerned about profit, they could just buy cannabis companies. They could just sell cannabis. That's a Philip Morris deal with the vape companies. Why fight them? Join them. Right, right, right, right. Either way, it's us or them. We'll get them both. Hi, everybody. Breaking into today's episode, it's already great. To let you know a little bit about the guest Hamilton Morris, he's a super cool guy. I mean, legitimately, one of the coolest people I know, he's a chemist. But kind of like black scientist, you know, he's like a different breed of the chemist. He's somewhere between black scientists and the guy who just up like with a question marks all over his jacket. He's got his own Patreon that you should subscribe to. Patreon.com/Hamilton Morris, where he does new research on stuff like this that he's talking about today, brings him to places like a bone to do research with junglers. That's the wrong word. That's probably an offensive word. But he's getting to the bottom of all these sorts of things, all these laws associated with these drugs, all these, the roots of them and just kind of like, he's wild, man, he's a journalist and a chemist. You don't see that connection very much. You can find him on YouTube at Hamilton Morris or on Instagram, also at Hamilton Morris. If you're on Instagram, please reach out to him. Send him a DM, you know, and tell him, like, hey, man, I love you on Ari's podcast on you be tripping. Please come back and do another episode. And next time in the United States, I will reach out to him. We'll do another episode. I got to say, this is another nominee for best trippy for best drugs and maybe best episode. I mean, the stuff we're going to get to is wild. I hope you'll enjoy it. Also, wherever you're subscribing or wherever you're watching, please subscribe. Why not? Do me a favor. Click that like button, subscribe. Just leave a dumb comment for the algorithm. Tell me about the craziest drug you've done. That'll help push this into the masses and get more better guests. You guys can have a more fun time, you know, comics are fun, but also I like to reach out. The more views I get, you know, that money is the same regardless because why I make sure it's a great job. But the more views I get, the more guests I can get like this guy, Rob Lowe, trying to get that climb or dude, it's a bunch of people. It's a wide world out there. People have gone. So please subscribe. Wherever you're watching a listening, there's also a, I have a special on YouTube called Jew, you should watch right now if you don't know about it. And I think that's it. I have a storyteller show called The End. Oh, well, we're doing the giveaway. I'll make it announcement at the end. We're doing a giveaway. YMH is giving away all episodes of YMH Live if you get all episodes of The End. Right now, if you've already bought it, you will also get those episodes. YMH Live for the one year anniversary of YMH Live, we are packaging them into the end. Go get the end right now at Ari Shafir.com. Seven episodes plus a prequel of the greatest storytelling ever recorded. Second best storytelling ever recorded. It's up there. It's pretty good. Ari Shafir.com right now, $6 an episode. If you buy five, you get two more for free. So that ends up being about four bucks an episode. What a bargain for guys like Napar Gatsy, Tom Sagoore, Shane Gillis, Robert Kelly, Joe List, Mark Norman, Christopher No, Miss Pat, Alisa Deek, Big J. O'Kristen. Oh my God. Who I forget? Jordan Jensen, Steph Tollev, me, Column Terrell, Duncan Trussell. I don't know. Shane Gillis, I say him, Dan Soder. Anyway, please get that. Let's get back to the episode. Guys, this is a wild one. Right. The same argument was being made with MDMA when it was rejected by the FDA. People as a sort of knee jerk reaction were like, of course, big pharma interfered with the approval when I don't think that there's particularly strong evidence for that. And what we've seen with the development of psychedelic medicines over the last few years is that big pharma just gets involved. If they don't need to have an adversarial position or product or nothing, then let's just get more products. Like, Abby has acquired billions of dollars worth of psychedelics in the last years, which is one of the major pharmaceutical companies. So they're not against it. So what is it? It's just the DEA fighting all this stuff. There's a long story that I always get threatened legally whenever I talk about it on a podcast, but there was a very crazy. Yeah, you can look at my, I did a thing with Andrew Callahan about some of the factors that were at play. There was a legitimate conspiracy that was at play that had nothing to do with big pharma. Really weird story. Yeah. It's like, I don't know. No, no, no, no, that's guys. Oh, actually, no, well, interestingly, kind of. It always backs the nose. It always leads back. It's always an angle on. It was zero. All right. Wait, we got to talk about travel. We're not doing it. We're supposed to go somewhere. Your last one was about China. What a weird fucking way to go to China. Let's go to drug lab tourism. Yeah. This is your award. By the way, your tricky award. Oh, wow. Yeah. We do an awards show every year. Well, yeah, but that's, that's a nice. You forget about the box right away. Let's see what we've got is this. And it was for, um, yeah, best drug experience. Oh, wow, legit award. An actual statue. Yeah. And you can't smoke out of it. I didn't realize a later. I should have put a carbon there for you. So that's my mistake. I apologize. That's beautiful. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Thank you for doing the episode. I really loved it. Um, um, so what do you want? Where do you want to talk about? I think we can talk about South Africa a little bit. Oh, yeah. I mean, okay. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. You've been? No. It's interesting. I bet. Yeah. It's one of the, I, it's a bit scary to me. It seems like a powder keg that never remember to go off. It's, there's different types of scary, depending on, uh, you have different flavors that you've been taste, depending on what you're into. But I find the drug history in South Africa just totally, totally fascinating. Okay. And I'm very familiar with Gary Webb and Dark Alliance. You know, he's like, I'm sure you've encountered this. He was a journalist who wrote a famous story for the San Jose Mercury news that in its most compressed sensationalized form was that the CIA created the crack of it. I've heard of that. That's from him. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And then after publishing this, he, uh, Clint shot himself twice in the back of the head. So that, that's the, here's the problem. Everyone always says that's, um, clearly murders when that happens. But also it's sometimes like taking away talent from someone to be able to shoot yourself twice the bag ahead. It's high, it's a high level suicide. And for this guy to nail at that heart, I feel like it's, I think it was a suicide. Yeah, because I shot myself this way twice. I think so. I think so because I was joker. Oh, okay. You really think it was a suicide. I do, I do think it was a suicide because he was very depressed about the reception of this article. Yeah. Um, it was, he was very widely criticized for it. I think it was in part because people lean too hard on the most sensational interpretation of what he was saying. And this is related to South Africa. Um, so, uh, you know, his basic claim was that the CIA was funding this anti-Santinese to anti-communist contras in Nicaragua. And, or a, yeah, maybe, maybe he knows about it. Yeah, maybe, maybe yeah. Um, yeah, because it's a very politically complicated story that I haven't read this book in a little while. So I may butcher some of the nuances of the narrative, but that the CIA could not directly fund the contras. And there was this guy named Blandon who was selling cocaine in L.A. to freeway Ricky Ross, who was converting it to crack. And some of that money was going back to Nicaragua to fund the contras. So to raise their, they had to do like, he'll like lemonade, stand shot. So raise the money to pay for it. I mean, this is one of many functions that drugs can serve in a society is a source of massive quantities of undocumented money that exists entirely outside of any crazy. You would go to, I mean, crazy, but not crazy. It was like, well, let's raise the money here. Let's have a, you know, a yard sale here. You would think like, well, I guess sell it somewhere else, but yeah, you know how to sell it here. Give it just seems kind of wild. So he makes a pretty strong case that there was, if not complicity that there was negligence, I mean, you can debate whether or not the CIA should have been involved in international trafficking or counter-trafficking efforts, I think that they were not used to be in Nicaragua. Yeah. So it's like, they're already like, we're operating under the radar. Right. Right. So from my perspective, there's a little bit of, like, I don't necessarily want our government to be interfering with drugs in other countries or really our own. So that, but the claim is that there was negligence in terms of preventing the trafficking and that some money did go back to the Contras and that some of that cocaine was converted to crack that became part of the so-called crack epidemic. He makes the argument a bit more carefully when you actually read what he's saying, but people jumped to the CIA created the crack epidemic conclusion and then he got attacked for characterizing it that way. But it's a very interesting idea and there was something sort of analogous that was happening in South Africa, which I had found really fascinating that's even less known, but arguably a better example of this. I feel like people in the United States don't really even talk about the apartheid government. It's not like a really widely, like, the history of all of that is not something that you're. Like, they really remember it ending when it was pretty young. Yeah. I've been confusing with Africans and Afrikaans. You guys need better marketing. This crazy would be that close to it. Yeah, we didn't really talk about it much, huh? No, it was big when it happened, but we don't talk about it at all anymore. Yeah, it's kind of. It's a really remarkable and horrifying history that is not discussed as much as you might think. And so, like, you know, you have white minority rule in South Africa, and there's obviously a lot of anti-apartheid political activists that they're trying to prevent from overthrowing the apartheid government. This is going on for. People in power and money. Yeah. Yeah, they want to maintain apartheid and white minority rule of the country. And so, the apartheid government developed a chemical and biological weapons program called Project Coast, and it was headed by a South African cardiologist named Votre Passon. And he was like. Project Coast, wow. It's a top secret. It's so funny when Wikipedia has a top secret program. Not top secret anymore. Yeah. Not top secret because the apartheid government fell, and there was a Truth and Reconciliation Commission where many of these documents were made public, and the documents are horrifying. And I think that like MK Ultra and like many of these things, what is publicly known, likely only scratches the surface? Was it. Was it. I just remember Shepel talking about the Me Too movement in one of his specials, and then comparing it to. apartheid, the end of apartheid. And he's like, look, when you look at it, once the whites came back power, they're like, it should have just been a massacre. They should have just been like, yeah, let's kill all of them. But it like it wasn't because they had to learn how to live with each other. And he's pretty much going like, women, please. You got it. We can be your alibi. You can't kill us all for our past, our past advances. They have not seen that. Yeah. Yeah. But like, yeah, maybe with this, you got to come clean about all of it, but you're saying that I didn't even complain about all of it just like somewhat. So there is this guy voter bason and he was doing huge amounts of research on the weaponization of psychoactive drugs. Okay. And that's something that different world governments have been doing for a long time. It's always been a kind of interesting possibility. Like, you know, maybe instead of shooting people or using missiles, maybe we can use psychoactive drugs maybe that would even be more humane. It actually probably would be just make them go a little crazy convince them they should declare peace. Right. You know, or whatever. Hi, everybody. Today's episode of you be trippin' is brought to you by Mars Men. Guys, as you get older, your testosterone starts to go down. I know. If you're like me, I used to guerrilla fuck for hours. And now I can only fuck for about an maybe an hour and ten minutes. Guerrilla style, the rest is soft and sultry, kind of like when Roger rabbits have exactly Jessica rabbit. That's about as much as I can give somebody, patty cake. Nobody tells you about this stuff about it all going down. That's where Mars Men comes in. Your body makes testosterone, but a lot of it gets locked up and can't be used. There's a protein called SHBG that basically handcuffs your testosterone. Even if everybody's making testosterone, SHBG locks it up so you can't access it. But now with Mars Men, I'm back. I'm back to fucking in style. For a limited time, my listeners get 50% off for life, plus free shipping and three free gifts at mengoatomars.com. That's mengoatomars.com for 50% off and three free gifts when you go to checkout. After you purchase, they will ask you where you're heard about them. Please support my show and tell them that you'll be trippin' sent you. This message is sponsored by Raycon. Guys, Raycon makes great quality earbuds at low and affordable prices. And I've been listening to them all over the UK. Well, actually just all over London. They have noise cancellation. I've been listening to Jack White out, which is really good. It's got a picture. If you don't know, it's got a picture of this statue with a blue head. And man, I take these trains. They're so loud. But Raycon earbuds just knock all that out. I haven't used them pretty much every day since I got them. Whether I've run an errands or just workin' from home. They're the ones I actually use over all my other ones. Yeah, honestly, they've been become part of my routine. But I will tell you, they're amazing. They stick in your ear and I get to shake them back and forth, but they don't move. Noise cancellation is great. Oh, I love them. The Everyday Earbuds Classics are a great option for everyday listening. Go to buyraycon.com/trippin' to get 20% off. Thanks to Raycon for sponsoring. And thanks for making my walks around London actually more pleasurable. All right. So people have very extensively explored that. It was done in the United States through John Altra, and what is it? Is that all the people that get in prostitutes? They would like lay some up in this. Project follow-up. Midnight climax. Yeah. Midnight climax? Yeah, yeah. And they're not going to talk because they're going to prostitutes. There's almost no documentation of that, but it does appear to have happened. But there was also Edward Arsenal in the United States, which is pretty extensively documented. And they were doing tons of this with weaponization of cannabinoids. Same idea. If we aerosolize a cannabinoid, spray it onto some kind of combat situation. We can incapacitate everybody by making them totally, totally stoned. Wow. So, yeah, way more human unless you start slaughtering all of them, but like way more human. Right, right. So the idea, like, chill them all out for a second. It's a, in terms of an idea, it's a decent idea. The problem was the practical application of it always ended up being more challenging than anyone expected. They also tried to do this with psychedelics. And the issue is like, once you're really trying to do this, like if the task is actually, like, all right, we got to get Hamilton and Ari in this room. Like, where you have like a nozzle with a vapor, like does it disperse evenly to I end up getting way more and you for some reason don't because of some microcurrent in the air. And then the guy comes in afterwards and he gets the biggest dose when he's adjusting one of the microphones and he never even wanted to get that guy. And so yeah. So like the actual practical application of this ended up being surprisingly difficult. Another example of this would be there was a infamous hostage crisis in Moscow, where they had another one of these sounds good on paper ideas of pumping a fentanyl analog into the movie theater because their idea was oh, we'll just anesthetize everyone in the room and free the hostages and arrest the people who are holding them hostage and everything will be fine. But enormous numbers of people died because they slumped forward in their seats in such a way that their airway was compromised and they was fixated. That's the. Wow. What? And they died just like that, not from the drug, just from like sleeping gas. That's what appears to have happened. So it's absolutely stormed at killing all 40 hostage takers. 132 hostages died, largely due to the effects of the gas. I mean, this also happened with um shenrykyo on the Tokyo subway when they tried to do the siren bombing. It didn't work well. Like they were I think it was like one of them tried to stab a package with an umbrella or something and it didn't leak appropriately. You know, the logistical practical aspects of pulling this sort of thing off end up being a bigger deal than people anticipate. So the apartheid government was trying to do this and the way they were going about it was really suspicious. They were like one of the things that you see typically in these past instances like the hostage crisis is you use a super potent drug like a fentanyl analog or an edgwood arsenal in the United States. These super potent synthetic cannabinoids or super potent anticholinergics or LSD or something like that, something that's active in the microgram range because if you're trying to coat something with an aerosol and needs to be active in a very small quantity, it's like if you required a tablespoon of a drug, it would be really hard to ensure that everyone got this dose. So that's what made project coast particularly weird was they were not choosing drugs that lent themselves to practical weaponization. It was MDMA, which is active at like 120 milligrams. That would be the typical dose. It's a huge amount of material to aerosolize on a crowd. It would require kilos and kilos. If you're right by the AC, you're gone. Someone else like further away is like I'm not getting enough of it. Yeah, yeah. It's impractical. It doesn't make a lot of sense and then the other one they were looking at was crazy. We've all taken not quite enough Molly. Dude, there's nothing happening to me. I don't know. Yeah. Sorry, go ahead. So they tried this with Quailude and or they claimed to have tried this with Quailude. So this is the thing is their claim is that they were manufacturing vast quantities of these drugs for crowd control as chemical weapons, but these were the worst suited imaginable drugs for weaponization. Like, so what were they doing for them? Or they just fuck it up? Or they trying for some other reason? So that's the question. And I think this is why the project coast story almost meets the Gary Webb Dark Alliance narrative better than Gary Webb's story because they almost certainly were not really using these as chemical weapons. They were almost certainly selling them to have a source of dark money for our government. And if there were any ambiguity, I mean, okay, so the first thing is they were tabletting them. So that's weird. Why would you why would you press in into dosage units if the point is creating aerosols that doesn't really make any sense at all? And I was investigating this and making a documentary about it for the first season of my show, which you can see it on. What's the vice show? Yeah, Hamilton's Pharmacopy. You can see it on my, some people can't access it, but it's all the episodes are on my Patreon. Fucking vice. Yeah. If I'm gonna say this every time you come in, what happened to you guys? It was so cool. Anyway, it's sad. Yeah. I guess people bought it and sell off the name. That's what happened to order a truck pizza too. I don't know. It was good. And then once there was lines around the block, they're like slash the ingredients. People are coming no matter what. They'll be, they'll be, they'll just say it was good because they waited so long in line. And then you just get new owners and they go cut the, cut the ingredients to all profits, sell it all off. Yeah. It's sad because it's, it's hard to make these sorts of documentaries. It was so independent. It was such an independent news and entertainment source. Yeah. I know we could do a show like that. No one's fucking paying for that now. Maybe, maybe that flexed it like seven years ago. Yeah. I mean, Patreon. That's why it's the only way is to sell fun and stuff pretty much. There's a lot of Patreon now. That's the only way that I'm able to fun making. And you can watch the old episodes as well. But so I was making this project for my show about this and going to South Africa in an effort to, I actually went three times and it was an effort to interview [BLANK_AUDIO] is the head of this weapons program because he had become a motivational speaker after the fall of the apartheid government. So he would tour South Africa giving motivational talks to like head of a chemical weapons group. And this dude, I mean, they called him Dr. Death. Some of the stuff that they were doing was shockingly, I mean, the whole thing is really bad, but even in the context of a really bad thing, they were, I mean, they were trying to develop trying to develop drugs that would selectively. - It's got rules. It looks like a teacher's fucking yoga. You know, lick out the tongue. - Yeah, as you were wearing a disheakie in there. - Yeah, yeah, that's him. I mean, I guess, I don't know, but that's the same one who's wearing disheakie. There's just show about it. - Yeah. - With the guy from Dollhouse or whatever it was, not Dollhouse. - Oh, is there a show? Is there like a. - What was the Dr. Death one before? - Go back, go back a couple. What did you see before it, Dr. Death? Yeah, that guy, who's that guy? You think that was the same one? - I think it's a different. - I think it's a different. - Dr. Death. - Dr. Dunch? - That's a different version. - Oh, okay, forget it. - It was also an interesting story, but. - Okay, let's entry. - Yeah. - It's Dollhouse is also an interesting story. - Yeah, what was that episode of? (laughing) - You think I was real, Dollhouse? - I assume it's real. - I assume it's real too, but I'm always looking for you for answers. - Yeah, I think, I mean, the idea of using psychedelics as performance enhancing drugs is not as crazy as it sounds, particularly for a trained athlete who has the physical ability where there's actually more of a psychological dimension to performance in some of these domains. - When I'm smoking weed, when it was like really hitting me and I would play poker, I could, I mean, there's not enough case evidence, but like, I could see through people. Like, it would just be like, I would just be like in the zone, they would like throw a blow, like, oh, I call. Just like fast, I could just see, I just, like, it was a performance answer for sure. I wouldn't get so nervous, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - If I'm throwing a blow for somebody's coming at me and just be like, I was just calm, which helps. - Right. - Actually, I was just somewhat recently at these steroid Olympics event, you know, about this and about this. - No, breaking every record. - Well, that was the enhanced games. - Yeah, wow. - That's fun. - Yeah. - Got to go for it. - Yeah. - It was, and, (laughing) - This is it. - And there was one record broke in. - Only one. - Well, here's the thing. - Because the most major athletes aren't doing this. - Yeah, because you're pretty much, if once you participate in this event, - They're done. - You're done. So they have to create these huge financial incentives. I think at the next one, they're giving athletes $100 million to break a world record. - That's worth it. Especially from swimmer. How much do you make as a swimmer? - Nothing. - Yeah. - Yeah. But many of the athletes were retired at this event, because somebody that's at the prime of their career, who's a potential Olympian, is not gonna want to ruin their chances of getting a gold medal to participate in this event. So. - Same as like Messi playing for Miami. - I don't know what that is. - Messi's a soccer player. He plays for Argentina. They're like club teams and their national teams. And it's the end of his career. It goes, "Let me take up shit load of money "to play in a Who Cares League in America." - I see, yeah, yeah. - But yeah. - Yeah. So it was, and then there's also the issue that by some estimates, like over 40% of Olympians are already doping. So then if this is the enhanced games versus the enhanced games, then there's not really going to be much of an edge necessarily. But they were doing other things. They were taking emphetamine. Some of the athletes were taking emphetamine. - Really? - Yes, and it's all open. So it made me wonder, once psychedelics are approved, the only stipulation was that it has to be FDA approved. So once psychedelics are approved, it would be really interesting if that ended up having some kind of performance enhancing effect. - That's so funny. My friends are like door-to-line, Hasidic Jew, and also he does a lot of farming. He's just like natural stuff. And then as soon as marijuana became legal, I was like, "I'm growing." I'm like, "What's the, there's nothing. "There's no, what's the problem with it?" It's legal and it's like fun. We all drink wine, Who Cares? So I'm like, "Yeah, I guess you're right." But so it's like, "Yeah, if something's legalized," they're like, "Do it." - Yeah, 'cause they didn't want, I think the reason that they required FDA approval was they didn't want to encourage the athletes to take totally experimental substances that had no medical validation whatsoever, but test-Austro and emphetamine. - I talked to a UFC fighter once, and I was like, "Have you ever about UFC fighting?" I was like, "Have you ever done steroids?" And I was like, "What, he goes, "Do it, we all do it." 'Cause some get caught, some don't. Everyone's on it. And I was like, "Really?" 'Cause there's like a few that aren't. But it's like, "Yeah, they're just one step ahead." So, right, this idea that's like the enhanced games when it's like, also the un-enhanced games are pretty enhanced. - Almost certainly, yeah. I mean, especially with these peptides, some of them have a half life that's like five minutes. Like it would be so-- - Really? - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - All right, wait, let's get to South Africa. - Okay, remember, right. - Okay, so I was really interested in investigating this, getting a little bit more into this specific question, because there really was a tremendous amount of evidence that the stated claim that this was chemical weapons research. It's weird to think of saying you're making chemical weapons as like the good explanation. - Wow. - But that was kind of the thing. It's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no, we were just making chemical weapons." - What's the other alternative? - Trying to control the black Axe? - Well, okay, there's two versions of it. There's the slightly less nefarious, slightly less conspiratorial version, which is just selling drugs to make money, it's not. But then there's the slightly more conspiratorial like selling drugs to make money with the additional intention of interfering with anti-apartheid political movements by promoting addiction among black people in South Africa. - Right. And it could be like, "Hey, as you're doing this, make sure it helps us also do this." - Yeah. - If you're like the whoever's telling them what to do. - I mean, yeah. - You know how the bridges were built in New York by, you forget his name? His building's named after him everywhere. Robert Moses. - Okay. - Is that a kind of maybe? But he goes, "Build them just low enough that the double-decker buses from Harlem can't get downtown. You have to get out and transfer to keep the blacks uptown and keep the white, the downtown more white." - Right, it's not like unthinkable that something like this would have been done, especially because they were also explicitly in their own records trying to develop a method for preventing black birds with a-- - Wow, it's so good. - And a black specific disease. Like, that they would have administered under the pretense of a vaccination. So this is like one of these things where it's like Jesus. There's some really dark. - So everyone's doing the COVID vaccine. Every black guy was like, "You go first." - It's like, they really were trying to do that. - To do what to the black population figured out later? - Oh, just to harm and weaken them, to maintain control. - It must be interesting when you're like, the supreme minority, and then you're like, our control is just based on right now control, like power money, but like if they all decided to storm us, we're done. - Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, and then you have to, yeah, they're killing enormous numbers of activists. Same thing, they're doing everything in their power to prevent this from going forward. And-- - That's what happened to Haiti. And then everyone in America and all the islands too were like, "Don't let what happened to Haiti happen." Where the slaves just go like, "No, there's like 100 of us "to every one of you." - Yeah. - Let's just take over. - Yeah. - And then everybody got scared in the South here. - Yeah. - Yeah, so the apartheid government was terrified and they invested tremendous amounts of money. And what makes it really pretty damn clear that they were selling these drugs and that it was not the stated chemical weapon is that Basan was caught selling MDMA himself. - What? - The head of the program was caught selling MDMA. - What? - As they were called in a park and then dived into a river to like evade arrest. And he had something like maybe even 100,000. - The fuck's he doing selling himself? - It's how fucking retarded you have to be to sell yourself. - It's so crazy. - It's crazy. - There's a line of command of like secrecy. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm not even telling the guy to sell it. Do you have to tell the guy to sell it? - Yeah, it would be like if the head of the CIA was found selling cocaine. - That's nuts themselves. It's really, really nuts. And so these MDMA dosage units that were supposed to have been destroyed, of course, were not destroyed and they were being sold by Basan. So at that point, it's very clear that they were selling these drugs. I also tracked down-- - Is this the motivational speaker now? - Yeah, the motivational speaker. - Okay. - Yeah. I went to one of his motivational talks. - So you met him? - I did meet him, yeah. - Okay. - I also went to his office and got kicked out. And they took the SD card out of the camera and made us erase it and all this stuff. Yeah, and found the person, the pharmacist who's preparing these tablets and called him any threaten to kill. The pharmacist threatened to kill someone on my production team. It was, yeah, I mean, it's kind of amazing how many of these people are just kicking around South Africa and-- And I mean, it's almost like, yeah, like post-war Germany, like where there's a kind of post-war Argentina. - Yeah, there's like a, yeah, yeah. But there's just a kind of acceptance that a lot of the elders were involved in something nefarious. - I'm so intrigued by people who didn't get their comeuppance, you know? Like, oh, we'll get hired by the American, like NASA team or like Pol Pot, we're like, I just live in the North next 30 years, or Dr. or General but naked. It's like, is this still a life-kicking it? They just like gave immunity or whatever, like, all right, we're done. - Yeah. - But they didn't get like strung up. It's like pretty, it's like no way to get out of power and maintain your life. But it sounds like all these guys were. - Yeah. - So what, you went there to just try to find them all, to do a doc? - Yeah. - I mean, I was also interested because similarly to the Gary Webb crack claim, some of this did coincide with an apparent increase in use of what they call mandraks, that's the South African term for Quailude, as they were doing this research. But similarly to crack, it predated project coast in the same way that crack predated any of the CIA involvement with the Contras. It was something that Gary Webb himself acknowledges. - Yeah, I guess so. You would need to, like, well, this is gonna be a, I could create a market. It's gonna be a market and then we can flood the market and profit. - Right. - If no one's buying something, there'd be such a long setup process. - Right, there's no need to go scratch. So you went there and what'd you find or how? - Well, I was interested in-- - What was, how long it was this? - This was a while ago, it was 2016, something like that. Yeah. - And I was interested because Quailude has disappeared pretty much everywhere. I only hear about it from joy deos. This is the only one that talks about the good Quailude times and concerts in the '70s and '80s. It's like-- - And this is one of the weird things. It's somewhere-- - Where are they? - It's a somewhat trivial drug to synthesize. I mean, it's totally, it's totally within the abilities of-- - I'm saying a thing, man, Jackson. - Yeah, they call it white pipe. - What does it do? - They smoke it. I mean, when you smoke it, it makes you really relax. - I thought Quailude's were pills. - They smoke pills. - They smoke pills. - They smoke pills. - You break it up and put it in there? - Yeah. - Like a meal-topper for dogs. - Yeah, it's a broken bottle neck and then they put a filter in, they call it diamond. And then-- - Just smoke Quailude. - And then you smoke these. Quailude's often have swastikas stamped into them. - Why? - It's the right way, the wrong way. - The right way. - Oh. - I mean, the wrong way, it depends on-- - I guess it depends on-- - No, what's in India, like the wrong way? - The not the right, the wrong way. (laughs) - Yeah, good point. I guess the Nazi one is the wrong way. - Wait, what does it do to you? I've always been interested here and Joey's talking about it, but I'm always like, I mean, I'm like, yeah. - It's very relaxing, it's very nice, very disinhibiting. It makes you feel very nudily. There's a lot of muscle relaxation. You feel good. It's nice. - Joey, let's get some Quailude's. He can find him if anyone can, or actually-- (laughs) - Sorry, it's not just a fact. (laughs) So, okay, so you go there to try to what? Meet this guy, or just-- - To meet the guy, but also to learn about how the Mandrax market in South Africa continued after Project Coast and what was fueling it, because there were these other really weird factors that helped it remain in South Africa longer than anywhere else. And one of the things that I'd seen this had been documented in passing in some, I think it was like some article about conservation of abalone. And they were-- - That's illegal now, most places. - Yeah, and it was about abalone poaching. And they noted that there was a tremendous demand for abalone in China, and that there was sometimes a direct exchange of this precursor chemical and a subtle anthernellic acid that's used to make quailude for abalone, because you can get all these precursor chemicals from China, because chemicals are coming from China in general. And this would allow people to poach this rare organism, trade it for precursors that could then be converted into quailude. - Interesting. - Yeah, so I was also very interested in that bizarre little ecosystem and just how people were making the quailude in general, because that's almost entirely undocumented, and really wanted to get into a quailude lab and observe the process, which was extremely difficult. - 'Cause how illegal of us? - Yeah, because people don't usually want to invite outsiders into an operation. - What's the benefit of this? - Yeah, it's saying like, oh, really, I'm on your side, and I'm really interested in chemistry, it's true, I am on their side, and I am really interested in chemistry, and do wish to do this from an educational perspective, and obviously, I'm not gonna fuck them over in any way, but at the same time, even then, there's almost nothing to gain, that actually the person who eventually, there were two main leads. The first one was this catastrophic miscommunication where we traveled, I can't even remember where we were, it was like somewhere around Cape Town, but we met with this guy who had an operation, and at some point I told these people like, yeah, I've done a lot of this related chemistry, and I'm very familiar with how all the stuff works, and it had maybe got lost in translation that I was not applying for a job to work in this lab. So we met with this guy, and he was like, okay, all right, we're willing to pay you like, I think it was like 40,000, 40,000 a month to do this. - I mean, it'd be a good way to observe. - Haha, it was thinking like, oh, this is not really my intention, it is tempting, but-- - Oh, pay for your documentary. - Yeah, yeah. - Or if you're observing. You get a paycheck. - Yeah, yeah. - It's actually might be the best way in the most access. - Yeah, yeah, you have very good access. - I mean, if you're trying to do a documentary on the White House, get a janitor job there, would be. - All access. - Yeah, or job as a politician. - Yeah, sure, that's harder, but yeah. - Yeah, yeah, absolutely. - Yeah, so I was like, oh, you know what? I'm really trying to film this process, and he was like, film it for what? And I was like, oh, I'm making a documentary about this, and it was clear, it was the first time anyone had ever mentioned this, and so both of us were thinking like, oh, this is really not what we thought was happening. And I was able to find another guy who had a friend, who was a musician, who was willing to trade us making a music video for him in exchange for observing. - I remember this one. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, it's actually something like that that has happened to me twice. - Oh, it's amazing. - It's a different one. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's also happened in the cannabinoid lab, where there was like this, it's a weird thing how that tends to work, but. - Did you make another video? - Yeah, yeah, we have every rock videos you've made in. - It's a part of making a different video. It's a technique. And then we got access to this lab and filmed the process, and it was really cool. I mean, these are things that have never really been documented before. A lot of this stuff, when you think about it, it's like the amount of rigorous documentation of all these things that are so important for public health and our economy, like how drugs are manufactured, it's almost never rigorously documented, and when it is, it's done in such a negative light that you don't really learn anything. - Yeah, we're when they talk about keeping, like, deforestation going, they're like, a lot of logging jobs will help the community. - Right, right, right. Drugs feed a lot of people. - Yeah. Okay, so you went to South Africa. Who'd you go, your team? - Yeah. - You scared a lot? Cause for me, South Africa, I'm like, I don't, I haven't learned enough which city's fine. Jumping into Jones town on Cape Town, whatever. Which city's like, you'll definitely get kidnapped. You're too airheaded. You'll definitely get kidnapped. - Yeah, I was not super scared. I mean, some of the chemical weapons stuff is a little, just because there's a little bit of a freakiness in how unresolved it all feels. When you see someone like that giving motivational talks, I mean, I guess-- - Who does he give and talk to? Whites? - Like, yeah, Afro-conners and-- - He's not at a high school, actually. - Really? Is this still super segregated? - It depends on who you are. - Okay, depends on where you are, who you are. What did you say? - Where you are. - Were there ghettos that you saw? - Yeah. - How were those compared to the Nightsha housing on Avenue D? - I mean, probably not so different. I mean, if you're hanging out with people that are really in the throes of intense polysubstance use, it's usually like a somewhat grimy situation where it's like, it doesn't need to be, I suppose there are exceptions, but when people are really like, you know, just going at it with meth and heroin and everything else. I mean, there's also a lot of just very unusual drug use, like the discovery, is another separate documentary that I made a while ago that was like, there was a habit of smoking this anti-retroviral drug called a Favirans or F of Virans. Antiretroviral. Yeah. What does that mean? It's like an HIV treatment or reverse transcripties in epidermis. To give you? What's. No, no, no. This is like a sanctioned medical intervention. I thought retrovirals to make AIDS go away. Yeah, that's. What's anti-retroviral? Well, HIV is a retrovirus, so it's preventive. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But you could also say. Yeah. So it really limits the life-extending benefits of HIV, smoking while on antro. Okay, I got it. You were actually smoking and using this drug that was used as an HIV treatment and in doing that, discovered that this drug had classical psychedelic effects, which was something that was totally. This is South Africa or here? In South Africa. Okay. Yeah. Had psychedelic effects, smoking. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Like, it acts as an agonist at the serotonin-2A receptor, which is the same. No, come on. Could you get him a glass of water, too? Another one. Yeah, which is the same pharmacological target as psilocybin or DMT, but much weaker, much, much weaker. But it was just another kind of interesting. There's a lot of interesting drug trends, also the discovery that Ambien could wake people up out of comas was discovered in South Africa. So for whatever weird combination of reasons, thank you. Well. it was always a place where I felt like there was this massive, well, of pharmacologically interesting stories. You talk to the guy, Walter, who recently, uh, very. What did he say? Did you tell him what you wanted to talk about? Yeah. And he was receptor, for probably not at all. Not particularly receptive. He has done some interviews. About it? Yeah. Do you think they're really careful about like, "Hey, this is what the government decided to release, so that's what I'll also talk about." And everything we have not released, I got to be very careful what to mention. Yeah, I mean, he still practices medicine. He's a cardiologist. So it could even be without. Dr. Death? Yeah. Dr. Death. Is a. Or he was last I checked. Yeah. Motivational speaker. cardiologist and death doctor. Yeah. Damn. Yeah. Where's. Yeah. Where's. Yeah. It's a wild story. Where'd you stay while you were there? Different places. Don't wear particularly interesting or memorable. Not like. Should I go? Yeah. And you just went for this stuff. Do you party at all while you're there? Not party, but I mean, like, go try some local meals. Or you just work all the time? Yeah. Usually, when I go somewhere weird, I'm usually there to research something or document something. It's kind of. I actually enjoy that. Like, it's my favorite way to interact with a place is to go and investigate some weird thing that I can only learn about in that location. So you're not looking to go to like, "Here's a Michelin restaurant while we're here." Yeah. You're like, "Let me see what they're smoking on the streets." Yes. Okay. Yeah. My friend, Rolf, was like, he's like a real travel writer, but he's like, "I want to Houston for something," but he goes, "I was a huge Bushwackers fan, some rap group." And he goes, "So all my tours in Houston was all like where the Bushwackers would wrap about." Yeah. And I was like, "Okay, that's a specific way to go see a place." And yours is also very specific. It's not like the top 10 things to do in whatever in South Africa. Yeah. And often, I mean, also even in the United States, it's not necessarily well documented. You know, you go to Japan or something and you wonder, like, do they sell weird synthetic cannabinoids in the smoke shops? Like, does anyone even know, is there any-- Yeah. Lonely planets never in there. Yeah. Even how to get weed in places, it's like, you really got to ask, you're going to have boots on the ground for that. There's a website for that. I can't remember what it's-- Not Aeroan, right? Not Aeroan. That's it. Aeroid. No, wait. Aeros? No, that's for hookers. What's the one? What's the drug one? Aeroid. Aeroid? Yeah, but there's a weed one that's like, I think it's called weeby high or something. And just like, how to find weed in every place? I think so. I had used to work with a guy who had Crohn's disease who really needed to be stolen all the time. So I think that was what he would use. I think it was called weeby high. You ask also if you get somewhere, like where, like, the town square, see who's making jewelry who's not old, ask them or go to a hostel. If it's for weed, go to a hostel and, like, ask around. Yeah. It would be the first thing whenever we landed anywhere. You would start with the cab driver, whoever, like, oh, so what is it? What is the, like, do people use weed here? Is weed a thing? Like, what are your thoughts on that, you know? You can't get it in, so you get to find it every time, medically. You've got to find it fast. That's such a weird way to travel, too. So you talked to the guy who you went to one of his motivational speaks. What do you find? How do you like it overall? I found it very mysterious, and I still am not. I think that there's still deeply mysterious aspects of what happened. It's similarly to MK Ultra, I mean, similarly to Cointel Pro, like, you know, there's a lot of these things that we just get to see small snippets of whatever happened. And when you see something like that, it's very provocative. If you want to find more, I hope that more is discovered. There's a great book about it called Secrets and Lies by Shandre Gould that is worth reading. It has been pretty extensively researched, but I think there's still many aspects of this that don't have a satisfactory explanation. Yeah. Did you find any mandrax when you were there? Did you take any? Oh, yeah. There's huge amounts. I collected some samples and did analysis on them. I tried quite a little like before, before, after, um, I'm in. Do you? So I'm like more of a pothead, but like, but like, even we're like mushrooms in different places, like a little bit, but like with weed, I'm like, I owe it to the country to do a proper analysis of what the weed strength is like here, you know, so I could actually like mention like, Amsterdam weed is generally not as good as Denmark weed. And people are like, what? I'm like, it's just not as readily available, but like, you know, and then Spain, I haven't tested enough, but I've heard that it's pretty good there. Yeah, yeah. You know, or it's like getting a slice of cheese pizza, so you could actually say what's better slice. Yeah. Um, yeah, I'd want to try it in each place. Yeah. Like the powder in Germany is the best of any kind powder, any kind of powder. What do you mean? Well, powder. Uh, ecstasy, molly, uh, uh, coke, any sort of powder there is, it's, it's so pure. It's just is the thing that it's supposed to be, yeah, versus here where it's like, it's like finding out the healthcare system in another country versus here. And like, I thought ours was good. Like, no, ours sucks. Yeah. That's how our powder is compared to like other places. And the infrastructure for testing is not great in the United States, so it's harder. I mean, the home, there's so many things that cause a drug market to be destabilized and dangerous, and one of them is inadequate testing facilities. Yeah. So I'd want to know the quailudes, they're stronger than the ones here or they exactly the same as it's just like, I mean, they're, they're custom made for that market. So they're pressed into these really thick tablets. They don't look like an American pharmaceutical quailude tablet, um, in addition to the swastika or other things that were sometimes stamped onto them. And they are probably, I mean, one issue with the synthesis of the chemical and quailude method quailone is that when you're synthesizing it, you use this chemical called orthotelioidean that's carcinogenic. It's a pretty well established carcinogen, and it is possible to remove it entirely from the product. And it's not terribly difficult, but when you're doing it at a huge scale and maybe you don't care that much, it's pretty easy for there to be residual orthotelioidean left in the material. That's a little scary. If it's, you know, one-off thing being exposed to it, it's probably not a big deal, but if it were a drug that you were using daily, which many of these people do, uh, it starts to get you. Yeah, it starts to get you. So that would be one difference is that the pharmaceutical quailude tablets were definitely not contaminated with orthotelioidean. So when XSE was, I guess the tail end of it was big when I moved to LA in '99, so like '99, 2000, '91, it was like, it was a party drug for sure, it used a lot, but like the difference in people used it twice a week, like every Friday and Saturday, people used like once every couple of months, was like, you could see it start to affect people. You know, when they weren't on it, they always say it shoots holes in your nervous system, which I never understood what that meant, but like habitual use of it was like, oh, this is fucking with you. Yeah, I think people to do it all the time can destabilize themselves a bit. I guess it's like that with alcohol and weed too. Yeah. it's like, chill dude, you're not the same guy. - Yeah. - So first of all, why were there swaths that goes on there, and then, and then what were they putting it into the, how are they controlling the population with it? - I don't know that they were. I think it's maybe, you know, the hand wave, the explanation would be to promote addiction and weaken the community, something that was sort of the reason that people found the Gary Webb Dark Alliance reporting, so compelling, it was a similar idea that the CIA would be complicit in destabilizing impoverished black communities. But I don't think that in either instance, there's evidence of that specific intent if anything, the operative concern was money in both instances. - Right, so like in the God, I think the Godfather, it was like that fight of like, we're not selling Coke, it might have been something else too, but we don't sell Coke to our own, but we'll sell to the, to the, whatever, blacks, like let them fuck over their community, but they're not trying to keep the black community in the movie, anyway, down. They're just like, it's a shitty drug. We're not gonna give it to Italians. - Right, right. - Or in China, they were like, don't seem to care about weed, because Chinese people don't smoke weed. But they're like, if you have opium here, we're gonna fucking hang you, 'cause that's our population is being affected by it. - Yeah, and there's a long history there, yeah. So like, yeah, I could see it being, every time there's a conspiracy, I'm like, look at this stupidity possibility, and then the very devious possibility, and then anything, and just money-making. - Yeah. - So it was like, I could see it, maybe either being, it's controlled a black population, keep from getting smarter and rising up. I could see just like, let's just make some cash, and we're not gonna give this to the white community, 'cause we care about ourselves, and they're like, beneath us, kind of vibes, or just like, I don't know, let's just test and see what happens, we'll figure out later. - Yeah, and it will probably never be known with certainty, because it's not the sort of thing that people typically come out and say, like, oh yeah, yeah, that's what we were trying. We wanted to just really harm black people as much as possible, and destabilize them in any way that they could. I mean, Coentel Pro, I don't know if you've ever looked through that stuff, but the FBI was really seriously trying to prevent any black power movements in the United States, and we're really seriously interfering. - Well, you know, it's actually pretty shocking, and that documentation was only released, not through FOIA, or anything like that, through a robbery, the documents were stolen. - So they never really revealed any of this? - Yeah, they never intended to reveal anything related to Coentel Pro, and it's pretty shocking. I mean, they were trying to convince Martin Luther King to kill himself. - I don't know if you've ever seen that. - Wow. - No, so they didn't have to look like a assassination. - Yeah. - No, really through psychedelics? - No, no, they sent him this really kind of horrifying letter to, in an effort, to try to blackmail him and convince him to kill himself. - What do you mean, like, what kind of letter? - It's like, like, we have the documentation that shows you're a fraud, and your wicked deeds are about to be released to the public. Why don't you just say, why don't you just do what you know? - Like what would you do? Fucking white chicks? - I think they had some evidence, and maybe he had sex with the head and affair, or something like that. I can't remember. It was, you know, some stupid. - Oh, I heard some, like, unconcentual stuff, maybe. - I don't know about that. - I don't know. But yeah, just fine. - I mean, they were tapping his phones. They were, I mean, they did the same thing to Malcolm X as well. So there was a- - Did you ever see the Martin Luther King Photoshop? So, like, that they put in, they tried to convince people. He was a bad guy. In the '60s, he was like, looking at him with like, I don't know, all these white people or whatever, but they didn't have Photoshop back then. So it's just really bad. But back then, it was like, I see what I see. - Yeah, like an early AI. Like, that doesn't look like, my head doesn't, isn't this long. But for the first time you see it, you're like, oh, it's definitely, definitely true. What are these lines around him? Like, that's cut and paced. - Yeah, you can read it online. You can read the letter that he was sent. It's publicly available now. - Really? - Yeah. And you should just kill yourself? - Yeah, if you type in MLK. - Yeah, and I put in some of those Photoshop's later. But put in this, I want to see that. I want to read this. - This may have just been the FBI pre-Coventel Pro. I need to. - Coentel Pro. - Right here. - The Suicide Letter. - Yeah. - The FBI Center anonymous manipulator, Dr. King and his wife, urging to commit suicide before fabricated expose was released to the public. Wow, 'cause they didn't want him, I mean, obviously, making twerking gangpots. - And that's what our government was doing. I mean, so it's like, when you see stuff like that, like the taxpayers were funding the FBI, trying to convince MLK to kill himself. Like, you start to understand why the Gary Webb hypothesis is attractive to people and doesn't feel so far-fetched. - Hey, I'm breaking it real quick. So I was wrong. The billboards were to make Martin Luther King scene, I just want to get it right. To make Martin Luther, 'cause in the out-of-look, that you couldn't find it. The billboards were to make Martin Luther King seem like a communist. So they doctored those images. And those are the ones you've shown. Show 'em again right now real quick. Okay, and then in surveillance, they had Martin Luther King alongside photos of men and women eating together in a racial. Surveillance photos showed Dr. King and other activists sitting at dining hall tables next to white female civil rights organizers. And then they put text along with that to make it seem like it was something that wasn't. And here's the text. Social integration is a primary objective of the school. Here, oh, I gotta be real careful with this. Here, white and negro patrons are shown mixing at dining tables, breaking down the natural barriers between the races. The agent captured, oh, so this is surveillance. The agent captured frames of black men and white women laughing, chatting, and square dancing during a recreational evening in the campus barn. The text printed directly beneath these images red. The photos above illustrate the mixing of the races and social events at Montigle under the guise of labor education and civil rights. White women and negroes are encouraged to intermingle freely demonstrating the ultimate goal of the integration movement, the total destruction of segregation and the traditional southern way of life. And then alongside photos of Dr. King talking in public spaces, there's pamphlets that included images of Dr. King standing in the hallways and outside on the grass, speaking with integrated groups of students and teachers, including white women. Text printed beneath, directly beneath these images, so they put text below an image to make it seem, and they're still doing this now with memes, you know. Famously that Donald Trump one was like, you could say anything, you could fool anybody, you just say your Republican, they'll believe anything. And it was like, I don't think not even a quote, Jerry Seinfeld had what's the deal with, and it's like, didn't even ever say that. That's the less of an example, 'cause I don't think it was a meme. But you put an image with words and people just naturally put them together. A Trevor Noah's racist tweets, and then you show the tweets, now you go into it thinking these are racists. And they're not, they were anti-Semitic. The text printed directly beneath these images red, so this is him standing on the hallways outside of grass, speaking with white women and other people. Pictures of social events showing black and white patrons dining together, plot to stir up racial strife and community unrest. So that's what they were doing. So there was a pamphlet they were handing out. The billboards were something else, the pamphlets was that, and you know, that's the way to get people to think, just adding your own text, whatever you want, to that they were doing, kind of whatever they wanted, something they weren't doing. Civil unrest, it's crazy. It's crazy. A plot to stir up racial strife and community unrest. And it works on everybody. It's worked on people that are really unbiased. They're like, I know what I saw. It happens again and again. I've seen it happen and you get more context. You're like, oh, maybe it's not that. So this is before even Photoshop, like really good Photoshop, I guess not. Really bad Photoshop and like AI for sure. So anyway, that's the reality back to the episode. It started breaking, but I wanted to get that right. - Wow, you know, all through when I was in Latin America, all through, looking all the redacted. Why release something if you're obviously not showing it? Also just retype it without the fucking blanked out stuff. I don't understand why they just have marker. All through Latin America, Coca-Cola is responsible for like deaths of like political candidates. They're like left wing because they might eventually unionize their population and charge a nickel more per hour for their employees. - Right. - So they're like, get rid of that guy. Before he gets in power. - I wanna read this letter. It was all redacted. - No, no, no, there's a, I think that's it. I think that link is in. - That? Make that big. No way, my fucking two eyes will be redacted. - Oh, come on, Vox. Fuck it. - I think that pre, there we go. - In view of your low grade of that, I'll go away in a second, right? Yeah. Your last name calls to mind only the type of king, such as King Henry, the safe, and his countless acts of adultery and immoral conduct lower than that of a beast who's writing this. Oh, they just write king. I look into your heart, your complete fraud and a great liability to all of us Negroes, white people in this country have enough frauds of their own, but I'm sure you don't have one at this time that is anywhere near your equal. You are no clergyman, Jesus, I want to get to the part no person can overcome facts. Lend yourself sexually psychotic ear to the enclosure. You will find yourself in all your dirt, filth, and evil, moronic talk exposed. I mean, this is just a YouTube comment. This is basic YouTube comment at the time, but if you're not exposed to those, you're like, "Oh, I remember your first anti-Hamilton comment," and you're like, "What the fuck, someone thinks of me that way?" And now it's like, "It's fine." King, there's only one thing left for you to do. You know what it is. You have just 34 days, and we should do this. The exact number has been selected for a specific reason, but it has definite, definite, practical significant. You are done. There is, but one way out for you, you better take it before you're filthy abnormal, fraudulent, self- is bared to the nation. Oh, wait, juice. The American public, the church organization that have been helping Protestant Catholic and Jews will know for what you are, and evil abnormal and please, "Oh, it's not about the Jews." So, what others will have backed you? Were they just hoping you did something? Your sexual orgies, whoa, incredible. So they tried to get into the commit suites, they didn't work, and then they just killed them, or someone did. Yeah. I think, yeah, it wasn't his bodyguard, was an informant, but the person that killed him was not a government person, I need to double check that. Every time there's, like, so the government has an option to, like, people are going to do stuff. We're aware of a lot of it because your intelligence is pretty good to let it happen. Somebody, people say that with, maybe with October 7th in Israel, they're like, "Hey, I'm about to be out of power. I'm in charge." They're coming after me for taking too much power, and then I heard this possible thing from the Palestinians, like, let it happen, or the 9/11, you know, that theory that I knew about it, but let it happen, and then we'll go from there. Not James Earl Ray, but his bodyguard. If you type in MLK bodyguard FBI informant, I think it, I might be confusing the details here. It may actually have been Malcolm X, with me. Oh, yeah, they say maybe he, but not Lee, Lee began his civil rights, okay. Oh, yeah. Directly privy to FBI targeting of King under Cointail Pro. That's the one, okay. Have you been present when King received a letter from the FBI urging him to commit suicide? Lee sued the FBI in 1977, in an effort to force the destruction of surveillance recordings of King collected as after he was dead. 1963. What do you say it? I'm not seeing. Lee received a master's degree from Harvard, Harvard, yeah. Nice. Yeah, maybe see if Bernhard Lee was an informant. I mean, it sounds like he was. It's heavily infill if I bought the FBI and my PDs under cover cops and security team. I mean, Robert Southern Malcolm X security team was even one of the first people to administer CPR to the civil rights leader as he lay dying. Interesting. Like, so if they're capable of trying to get into suicide, maybe the murder, I mean, when you hear Hillary Clinton go, like, talk about what's his name from WikiLeaks, like, can't we just drown him? Right. They're like, there's no governments first thought as like, let's do this nicely. I mean, even what you said about the, you're like, oh, this is a YouTube comment, which is like a funny, but it's like also at the time we've never seen one. But also, you know, this is kind of the thing you have bought farms. You have somebody that you don't like, have 100,000 people descend upon them, telling them that they're worthless every day on everything that they do. And it's all being orchestrated by some bought farm somewhere. I mean. Who killed cats, documentary or whatever, they're trying to figure who killed this cat. They thought they had a suspect. This is just like housewives organizing. And then it wasn't that guy, that guy killed himself because of all the pressure on him. Like, oh, shit, actually wasn't him. Let's go somewhere else. I'm like, wait, you just killed this guy. Right. Right. Right. Yeah, bought farms trying to come after you, like, everyone seems to be talking about how bad you are. But just to get rid of them, I could see it. If you're the government, you're like, this guy's trouble for us. And Biggie, Tupac, all the people who might, a lot of people died in weird circumstances who were leading. Yeah, it's hard because I'm sort of, I'm not really like a conspiracy guy. But at the same time, you look at Coentel Pro and you think, okay, well, there's definitely stuff going on. Project Coast MK Ultra. I mean, these are interesting examples because there's something horrible happening. But as we started the conversation with the iBegin and Joe Rogan, this is like, there's like, weird behind the scenes stuff happening, although he acknowledged it, but it just happens to be a good thing. Right. And it might not be devious, but it might be. Also, it might be like, I fuck my wife, you know, or fuck my, you know, his son fucked my daughter, get rid of him. It might be shit like that, even though you don't even know, you know, when they're like, well, he hired his friend and was like, well, yeah, people hire friends all the time in non-devious ways. Right. Just called looking out for people you know. Yeah. And so then it's like, is it a big conspiracy or is it just like regular shit, you know, like if I was up for a contract for a fucking documentary about drugs and you and somebody else were applying, I'm like, well, how are you? No, Hamilton. Yeah. I'll give it to him. And the other guy's like, but my application was better. It's like, yeah, I don't know you. Yeah. Or is it devious? Wow. It's so interesting. So they're doing the same shit in South Africa. Yeah, you should read secrets and lies. Yeah. There's probably other, that's the, I think the most authoritative book about it. It's really amazing how little is known about South Africa's nuclear weapon program, their chemical weapon program, all the stuff that was happening, it's like, it's just not really discussed. Yeah. Damn. So how'd you like it overall? What was it? That's like. I don't have any strong toilet memories. I like it a lot. Yeah. I'm into, I mean, I've liked everywhere I've been in Africa. I like places where there's something that feels genuinely different where you're like, wow, this is that there's really stuff going on here that I've never seen before. Did you do the eye-baking ceremony there in West Africa? Yeah. You did. Yeah. It was so beautiful and good. It wasn't like a violent people of purging everything. I mean, when I was eyewasca, I was so worried about, like, projectile diarrhea that I couldn't fully enjoy it. It didn't happen. But like, I was so worried about that and I was like, no, nobody has that. No, it was, it was perfect, it was wonderful. It was, arguably, it was somewhat difficult at times, but it was really my vibe. It was, for me, it almost felt like I was tripping less than I had ever tripped before. It was like this hyper-rational understanding of my own personality and problems that almost felt like an external observer where it's like, you can have a friend who's doing something that's stupid and you think, like, if only they knew that they just need to do this one thing differently and their life would be so much better if they just started exercising or they just stopped drinking or just stopped smoking weed or whatever, but they can't see it themselves. They can. They're stuck in some loop of self-deception and then to have this moment of reflection where you can kind of not even brutally just sort of dispassionately look at yourself and say, like, oh, okay, oh, that's stupid to feel that way. That's a really, like, don't you understand that you think you hate this person, but you don't hate them. You're just protecting your own feelings and that's, you're actually hurting yourself by thinking that you hate them and you need to move past that, like, just as kind of anything. Oh, yeah. Okay. Very good. You go to instruction where it's like, you can see it. I feel like that with ayahuasca and mushrooms too, where it's like, you know yourself better than anyone knows you. You've been there for all of you, other people there for a short time. Yeah. Like, even your best friends, you're like, I'm not there with them 100% of the time, but he is with him 100% of the time. And then if you have that thing where you can look at yourself clearly, knowing everything about yourself, yeah, it's that like, yeah, it's kind of like what you just described. And with mushrooms and with ayahuasca, I find that there's a greater emphasis in my experience. This is on things of sort of cosmic significance, like life and death and ancestry and time and all these love, all these kind of big profound components of your consciousness. Whereas with Iboga, in my experience, it was very practical, it was very grounded in reality. It wasn't like time doesn't exist, therefore you have no reason to worry. Or some kind of, you know, like that sort of thing or like there is no such thing as life and death or anything. It was much more like, this is what you should do in three months in order to like improve your life. It just felt very, very constructive. Were you with a tribe or like a group of people that were doing it? Yeah, it was with this great group of BT practitioners also made a piece about it in the third season of my show. Was there dancing? There was incredible dancing, yeah. Did you participate? A little, yeah. Did your best. I did, right? Yeah. I mean, I went to a Bob Marley birthday party at Howard, I was saying when I was like, guys, I'm going to try to join in here, but obviously it won't connect. How many days in a row did you do it or how long? I attended the ceremony for at least four days. I think they do it for even longer than that. And you take the five for six days. Some of it, they give you some, give other people some. How does it work? Different doses for different people, for different purposes, people that are there to treat some kind of medical problem might get a certain dose. That's part of, there's a word for it, pozology, the study of dosage, they use this themselves. So, they're very thoughtful about sort of assessing you and deciding how much you should take and when and they re-dose periodically and decide. So, they ask you about other drugs you've taken to see how intolerance might be like? No. That's it, my shaman did. It was like, what have you taken just in the past? It was so non-judgmental. And you're like, it's some weed. What else? I don't know. Coke, twice a year. It's like, okay. How much weed? Mushrooms acid. And you're like, yeah, it's something, you know, when it presents stuff like, how often does it present itself? And he's almost like, cool, all right, I'll give you, all right, I'm about to know. It's like when you're at a festival, so many of these mushrooms, like, you're ever done and you're like, no, I'm like, all right, you're less. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they, with the ayahuasca, you have a greater potential for drug interactions because of the MAOI activity of the vi- That's why they're asking. I think it's one of the reasons is that there's potential interactions. With Iboga, there are also dangers because it causes this thing called QT interval prolongation, where it's like an arrhythmia kind of interferes with the electrical activity in the heart. And certain drugs could exacerbate that. Like, one example would even be this very widely used anti-emitic zofran. So like, that has a similar effect to eye-begin, and conceivably, if you were to combine the two, it could exacerbate it. And they're aware of that. They're not aware of that specific drug interaction, but they're aware that some people have a toxic response to Iboga. Where'd you take it? What country's you taking it? Come on. Come on. I observed the traditions in Cameroon, but didn't take it there. And it's similar because it's like spreads. Some of these drugs, this, it's like grows on one side of the Andes, Mata, Urba, excuse me, on just some trees. But then the cowboys would take it and kind of herd over, so the tradition spread there. But it's like predates borders like that. Yeah. It sounds like wherever this plant grew. Yeah. They're just like, it's part of our tradition. Yeah. And the borders came later. Yeah. The history of it is not particularly well documented. It's usually attributed to pygmy people as the origin, but that is almost totally anthropologically undocumented as far as I know. The mythology surrounding it is amazing. It's really fascinating. Do you feel clear afterwards? Clean? Yeah. Clean. Yeah. I do think it was very good for me. I think about it felt incredibly beneficial. So I'm delighted that people are pursuing this medically. I think it really does have the potential to help a lot of people. And if it turns out it doesn't, then we can, you know, stop using it or figure out a different alternative. I mean, this egg clag I was so into it 15, 18 years ago, whatever, he was like, you got to try it. I'll take you to a place to try it. I just like, I don't have money to go on a trip. You can take it in Mexico, it is, I mean, there are dangers associated with it. I don't want to say that indiscriminately everybody should try it, but it's a pretty wonderful experience. It's an at West Africa tradition. So everyone's around. They got like drums that describe it a little bit. They've got drums. They have dancing. They have a sort of theatrical dimension where people assume different roles in the ceremony. So there's like, there's like, Iboga soldiers who have like, Iboga guns and like army camouflage. And they're the, but the guns are props. And they're the soldiers spiritually protecting the area. So it's like, they've really taken on all these symbolic features. And you have mermaids and you have kings and queens and all these different sort of archetypes that play into different elements of the ceremonies, different drugs that are sometimes introduced as well, tobacco, colonite. Yeah. It's got to be some sort of this seems so similar, but similar to like and so an and the shaman is like the words for them is like similar to like the kind of the warriors in the linguistic, like how they describe a shaman. It's like, it's a spiritual warrior. Like they're the general pretty much. Yeah. Same thing. And then when they like you're tripping out, they like get back in there and fight. It's like, I will be your general for this for this fight. It sounds like that too, where it's like so weird up because these, those two drugs are, I mean, so far apart. And there must be similar ones up like in like in in another area too. Yeah. And there's different traditions that some of the older ones are much more brutal and involve ritual scarification. There's huge amounts of animal sacrifice as well. A lot of chicken beheading. You know how to begin stuff? Blood, mirror, mirrors are sometimes used interestingly, which was also observed more recently in a psychedelic mushroom tradition in Lisotho by mirrors. Yeah, mirrors. Yeah. That's a fun one. That's interesting. Yeah. It's an naturally growing thing, unless you're out of pond. You're presumably, this is a more recent introduction, but and these rituals evolve and have regional differences. It was actually, even filming, it was really difficult because in one of the areas they have aligned on the center of the ceremonial room that divides men and women and you can't walk across the room. There's two doors for men and women and. And they're just aligned in the middle. And they're aligned in the middle and then even if there was a circumstance where you could cross, you can't cross directly. You have to go out the door and then through the other door to walk across the room, exit the building, walk around. And so things like that, where the people who were filming it were expected to observe all this. It made everything really very exhausting and difficult to. Were they on it while they were filming? I don't think so. And in some instances they would during the San Pedro episode, I think most of it was filmed while the people that were filming it were on San Pedro. Do you, when you're being filmed, do you think that holds you back? From fully. Yeah. Knowing you're kind of like, quote unquote, on the record. Your reactions are on the record. All the influencers trying to propose while they're holding a selfie, some of these things. I know. I know. Yeah, and for that reason, I was usually attempting to document the rituals more than my own experience. I actually didn't even want to be part of the Iboga episode and it was a huge point of contention at vice at that time because I knew that there would be, I wanted to do an episode where it wasn't about me taking a psychedelic. I wanted to document just the tradition and they didn't, they put, they were very permissive and allowed me to do a lot of things. But this had become a thing where they were saying, you can't not be on the episode. Not even that I need to be on the drug, but that I have to be in the episode. And so we kind of compromised them in it for maybe a couple of seconds. But I'm largely absent from that episode because I wanted to focus on the documentation. So it takes me, it sometimes takes me out of it. And so far as I am, you know, from on camera, it makes it that much more difficult to manage the coverage of everything that's being shot and exactly how we're constructing things. I wanted to do when I was doing like stuff like this. It just got the idea of like, I want to just embed myself there for like a month and just talk to people when they're going in and when they're coming out. Just like a book, but like you can I can't film them because they would know they're being filmed. But just like beforehand, like what are you expecting to get out of this? And then afterwards, how do you feel? And then can I check in with you in a month? - Yeah. - You know, and just one afternoon, 'cause everyone's gonna have a different reaction to all this. That idea, you had that ego death or whatever destruction of like, you'd see myself, I want it, there would be different for different people. - Yeah. - You know, just like, I should call my dad more or like, should I have banded my daughter? I got to reach out and try to get her out of adoption. You know, would be a different experience. - Yeah. - It depends, yeah, I think it's very much dependent on the person and what they're going through. I mean, you even hear of people who take psychedelics and they decide like, oh, I need to get a divorce because everyone, like, and that actually could be a very positive outcome. - That was one of the ones I told me. There was this man or woman. They always had fights every five to 10 months about kids, one wanted it, one didn't. But they're like, put in the background, we're in love, whatever. And then it would come up again, and they were just like, we can't get this out in Jews, but like, do you want them to Israel, do you not? You know, or you want to have 10 kids, you know, too. So, those kids are no kids. And then they're both on Ayahuasca. And they're both real, I was like, oh, yeah, we're not meant for each other. - Yeah. - And they're very cool. And I was like, how are they now? I was like, he's friends with her kids now. Like, she went on, had children, and they're still friendly. They love each other in a different way. Yeah, but it's a positive divorce. - Yeah. - So, how many days did you take it for? Or at times? - I only did, yeah, I may have done a very low dose on one of the days, but I only did one moderate dose. And it was, it was somewhat mild. I didn't go super deep into it. But, - Perfect. - I was sick at the height of it, but I didn't ever actually vomit. I dropped my phone into a pale vomit. And while I was tripping, I dropped my phone into a pale vomit and then had like a very symbolic moment of like, oh, there's my phone, beneath a pool of strangers vomit. Let me reach into the vomit of so many strangers to retrieve this device to entrance myself and thinking like, oh, this is the way it always is. It's always, I'm always reaching through this pool of strangers vomit to access my phone. Like, maybe I should just leave it in the pool of vomit. It's-- - Wow. - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, everything's like symbolic. Like, wow, it's really-- - It's really incredible. (laughing) - I had it, we had a music festival in this guy. Day one, we all camped. And day one his phone pretty much died. And then we got there on Wednesday and he's like, whatever. He took mushrooms for the first time and then four straight days of mushrooms lost his shoes early on. I had just a good festival experience. And then on Monday morning, he plugged his phone back in. Somebody gave him a charger, he plugged it and it tells boss, like, hey, I said I'd be there Monday, but I probably won't be. And she goes, well, this is not very ideal, you know, and just like, he was living music festival life with those shoes for that many days. And he was like, just saw it for what it was. And he goes, fuck this thing, I just shut it. And then his friends like, no, stay. And she went out to go get it. She's like, you can get it later, you're not doing this. But just seeing something's that clear. - Yeah, yeah. - I'm reaching through this drug vomit to find this thing that's gonna take me out of it. - Did you have any things? I don't want to ask a typical question. But it's not like, what did you realize about it? So how are you different afterwards? - I felt a huge amount of clarity in terms of what I wanted to do in the coming years that I wanted to focus on chemistry and then did for years afterwards. So it kind of helped me put my priorities in order for a period. And I think in general, it also just had a mood-improving effect. I think it's good stuff. I think they'll every, and it's not just a bogar I began. I think in that instance, the ritual was a big part of it because it also had a very community-driven dimension where it's exhausting. It's just endless, endless dancing. And they give you something, everyone's participating. You have a rattle or something. And there's this feeling of, well, like do I really need to be the 50th person to be rattling a rattle? And you're so connected to everybody else that you have this sense of like, oh, but I do. Because if I'm rattling, 'cause the guy next to me is rattling. And if he slows down and puts down his rattle, then I might think, oh, well, he's taking a break. So I should stop rattling. And we'll ruin the momentum of this entire group because everybody has to be reinforcing each other's momentum, enthusiasm, and engagement in this process. And everybody's totally interconnected. And if one person were to falter, it could have this butterfly effect that would diminish the power of the entire group. And it was good. It was like, I really felt how connected everybody was. And then of course, this is the case all the time. But you feel it powerfully in that moment. - It's funny, it makes you do it. Like you're actually doing one of these or like beating a drum or something like that. Like you can hear it. So you're like, yeah, you're like part of it. - Yeah. - Yeah, it's interesting. To messicals do that too. You get in there sweating. - Oh, okay. - And they're like, take an instrument before you get in there. And like, like, why? I don't need to do this. Like, what do you mean why? Everyone's doing it. - Yeah. How long did it last for before you start fucking, jogging back into your old ways? - I think there was like a fact that lasted for a few days, probably maybe a little longer. Yeah, it's usually with psychedelics. You have an immediate effect. And then you have maybe some after glow that might last a week or maybe a little longer. And then you do have to integrate the experience and try to maintain whatever constructive insights you might have had and bring those with you into normal life. - Well, there's a different type of psychedelic than there's gotta be other ones. So it's like, I began with just ceremony days at a time. Ayahuasca in like the Amazon, I guess, area. And then that is like Western Africa. There's gotta be more. There's gotta be other like long ceremonies. I think the word's different than just taking mushrooms. You know what I mean? It's like a different thing than like some, not an ask. - Oh, the spiritual peyote and the Native American church, which has its own relatively recent tradition but also involves very long white ceremonies. And more recently, there was a healer named Betsy Sethanti who published a paper documenting a tradition in Lasotho of mushroom use that is a bit different. Maybe a little bit closer to a micro dosing type situation, but that was, nobody knows exactly how long that tradition has existed. But it was undocumented not just in terms of the tradition but even in terms of the species of fungus that we're using. It was a new species of supposed to be maluti is what it's called. Yeah. - Yeah, it's like the way more powerful and there must be something in Asia, there must be. If it's any sort of like God or nature of planting these things for like what, I don't know, 'cause Ayahuasca are different, but the process seems so overlapping. And then of course you have San Pedro in Peru, that's a huge tradition. Yeah, there's probably other smaller ones, there's probably many that have emerged and disappeared, people endlessly debate whether there is any sonoran desert toad, denim associated traditions or isn't strong evidence for it, but it's not out of the question that something like that could have been discovered and maybe hidden, maybe forgotten. - Forgotten, yeah. You also have anodinanthra seed traditions in Argentina. - Yeah, especially if you get attacked by another tribe and you're not writing this shit down just passed by orally and everyone gets taken captivity or killed, like tradition's done. No one knows about the one drug anymore. - The entire language is disappeared. - Yeah. - It's certain that medical practices could very, very easily disappear or that we would have inadequate tools for even understanding some of these medical practices because something could be operating on principles or chemistry that is unanticipated and it takes a long time to even figure out what was going on. - Yeah. - Did you, okay, two more questions. Did you sleep there and stay with them in Gabon? - I didn't sleep in the night. - I don't think anyone was, maybe seven. - How many days were you there? Do you go back to a hotel or do you go? - I went back to a hotel. - Every night. - Yeah. - This is daytime shit or nighttime shit? - Night time. And at some point 2 a.m. or whatever, you would like, let's get out of here. - Yeah, but it was, it appeared to go almost continuously. It was like, they would be going when we got there, it would keep going when we left. The main thing was that it was so unbelievably exhausting for the two DPs that were filming it. One of them actually collapsed from exhaustion while filming. I mean, it was because it was unending. - Wow. - You really need to like, hey, take the camera, I'm going to bed, I'll come back and relieve you. Yeah, I mean, we need like 10 people because it just stuff never stopped happening. It wasn't like, okay, we're breaking for lunch, like, uh, you know, put down your gear, we're gonna start back at three. It was, it was like, it's happening spectacularly, nonstop and all around you all the time. And there's plumes of fire and there's people improvising drums and there's new costumes and. Wow, because they're playing roles. That's so interesting. That's so like Guatemalan, too, where they, they're st, they're st, day, whatever comes in and they're all, they all have these different, like, the animal costumes or like, even colonizer costumes, playing these roles to help along. And I don't know how much drugs are associated with it, but like, you know, the replays of stuff. Did you have anything? Yeah, I mean, not all psychedelics are necessarily good. I think it was never just about the drug. I was sort of, or it was never about just having a good drug experience. It was about documenting things. So with Bufotenin, for example, that's a drug that's pretty. I don't think people have really figured out a great way to harness whatever benefits. Obviously, it's there in the worst. That so that the tradition is Bufotenin. Yeah, is that where it comes from? It's not where it comes from. I wish. So yeah, I wish. But yeah, there, I mean, there's tremendous archeological evidence of ancient rectal use of Bufotenin containing seeds in South America, tremendous amounts of use. But I mean, like, when I was so like after I was calm, like, I had no appetite anymore for like comedy fights. We're always fighting with each other. Oh, like being me, like actually being me into each other. Yeah, like I get this and like, and like, someone snaps at you online and going back and forth, like, you know, shit on each other. It wasn't on like, we shouldn't be doing this. I just have no. It's, it's just like I used to be in golf and I feel like going to a golf and I'm really there's no real desire there. I don't hate golf. I'm just having a desire for it. Yeah, that's how I feel about those comedy fights now. Yeah, and I'm like, it's a little bit too bad. It's better for me not to, but every once in a while, I would love to just instead of ignoring something to be like, all right, let me make a funny retort and do this publicly. There's probably drugs for that. So you could get back in shooting testosterone. I'll get in there in a second. We find a deal. Yeah, I'm saying, are there any things like that? We're like, I'm changed, but I do miss that. Does that make sense? It makes sense. Yeah. That you want to be a little fucked up. Not so much with psychedelics. I mean, with other drugs, definitely, you know, with like Ambien or something, the changes are like explicitly bad. Where it's like, great, now it's hard for me to fall asleep without this drug. That's a terrible change. That so bad change, you know, I'm aware that psychedelics can have negative effects for some people some of the time, but my own experience with them has been extremely positive and constructive. And the like the worst of it is like a few experiences that weren't good or constructive, but even that was nothing compared to like all the positives being dependent on Ambien or something like that or nicotine. Yeah, bad trips. I try to explain it to someone like a bad mushroom trip. It's like, it's it's not as bad as sit next to a fucking crying two year old. On a country flight, you know, like keeping perspective. So did you, how did you get in? We're going to wrap this up. How did you get in Godbone? How did you get in with them? Just money? Yeah. Well, it's They're very proud of their tradition. We actually are they like protective of it. No, no, no, very much the opposite, which is cool. It's a really good vibe. There's a local guy who went to a bunch of the different groups and filmed pre-interviews with them and I then went through them with the producers that I was working with and we selected the church, the BT group that seemed most interesting. Yeah. And then that with them in person and they were super delighted. They watched the documentary before it went out and approved it and were really they were like, no, no, you're misrepresenting. No, no, no, they were happy. They were really happy with it because they think it's amazing. It's like, you know, it's like a What do you mean they improved it then? Approved it. Oh, okay. Okay. They may have, I mean, they also improved the documentary by being in it, but yeah, they they were like for them, it was like they put on this amazing performance and this is a beautiful documentation of this thing that they're very proud of and not at all possessive of a part of the thing was a sort of during the peak of my trip. She gives me this handful of Evoga fruit and she's like, you have to plant these. You have them. You have to take this back and you have to grow this. You have to Propagate take it back where to the US? They want you to plant it grow it and then run a ceremony. Yeah, they wanted to propagate the sacrament to make it available to as many people as possible. It wasn't a possessive secretive. Right? Take this to your land, grow it there. Yeah, it'll be sick. Make this available to as many people as possible. Wow. Yeah, I'm interesting got bone Where's got bone about Western middle? It's central West Africa But it's on the western side. Yeah, I'll write it on the camera. So it was in camera and two Yeah, like back out a little bit. Oh, no, maybe it wow. So this grows. What do you think? Everywhere there in that in that little Yeah, I think it extends into Congo and The exact distribution. I'm not even sure exactly how well it's been characterized. Are different tribes. We gotta get out of here. Are different tribes doing it differently. The ceremonies differently. Yeah, yeah, they're okay. Yeah. Yeah, when I had when I had that one, these are you know what I'm talking about with like the ayahuasca and ibogaine It seems like the ceremonial type. That's a different type of psychedelic, but in another category. You're gonna sit here with me for days. Yeah, do this is a different thing than like Spoken VMT. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's not a ceremonially based, you know, so there's like I don't know where they are, but anyway But when that I was like I was someone who was like why aren't you fasting? You're still two days out. You're supposed to not eat at all and then this this this botanist wife who was a shaman She was like it's different tribes do it differently and he was like all right fair And something like just get breakfast at the you're fine and you just got to listen to the each each I guess. Yeah It's also mystical. Yeah Anyway, buddy. All right. Well, thank you very much guys. You can see all this stuff at patreon.com slash her Hamilton Morris Yeah, it sounds like a good one. I gotta get on there. Yeah, yeah, you can watch you should watch the bogey document. Yeah, for sure. Yeah Okay Kind of mine that for pictures for this. Yeah, okay. Oh, yeah, okay But yeah, everybody get on there and watch it bro. Thank you. Thank you. Congratulations on your trip. You're worth. Thank you so much Yeah, there's only like six different categories best drugs is is one of them so way to go Yeah, the last one with somebody did y'all y'all or something like that in Cambodia got toast with something anyway All right, thank you. Bye everybody. Go sign up for his patreon I don't know man. I don't know We were supposed to bring it home this year. I Don't know. That's the episode anyway. Hope you had a good time It was supposed to be coming home Everything about this season lined up For an England win And it didn't happen What wait wrong Tushal More like Tushy I can divide it in that Terrible fucking terrible well great episode anyway. Thank you very much Hamilton Morris for coming in guys Please check him out subscribe. I don't tell many people to subscribe to someone's patreon The human trippin patreon has begun Research on the trip around the world. I know I spoke about this. I mean well over a year ago. It's finally happening I'm also looking into a way to get all the episodes of But this may some of you guys would want I put all the episodes of an old podcast called skeptic tank up there I'm really gonna I don't really I don't make shengilis money on these patreon So I'm not really looking to like do more work But I could house those up there Send someone on a trip around the world That's successful Do it again maybe every year Do very little And then an occasional Well, we'll get into it. Anyway, there's a uvchipin patreon if you want to subscribe But don't subscribe to Hamilton Morris's patreon because he actually used that might do crazy psychedelic research Where he goes to places like Gabon and fucking does it with a jungler's that's not the right word. I know that's not the right word Tribesman in Gabon to anyone. Gabon was a country. I Legitimate didn't know as a country Find him on Instagram at Instagram dot com slash Hamilton Morris. Find him on YouTube at youtube dot com slash at Hamilton Morris He just released two weeks ago an episode 45 minute little documentary that he always does He's crazy cool documentaries called synthetic ibogaine dash natural tramadol that I'm about to watch as soon as I'm done with his outro because it relates perfectly to this episode Gotta be a trippy award nominee. By the way anytime you see a trippy nominee even if it's not a Category we've had best drugs for sure even the last one Even do drugs just the researching Chinese drug labs was worthy of not just a nomination, but a win for best drugs on an episode Best meals and I don't mean best food. I mean best meal. So like Rolf Pots got nominated for eating at a monastery in the fucking mountains of Syria Afghanistan, I think Syria got to get Rolf on I'll go take a gain or two his class in Paris. You'll stop by for a couple days. Do another episode with him outside Um But anyway, patreon.com slash Hamilton Morris That's it. I've got no dates. Please get the end if you get the end right now until the end of August I believe Maybe the end of July you get you want to jump on it You're gonna get every YMH live for the one year anniversary of YMH They're kind of done because they're live things. They're pashing them all together So if you've already bought the end are issue fear.com right now 2999 for every episode that's just over four bucks per episode four if you count the Prelude prequel prelude That costs a ton of money and was done by a crazy cool Claimation artist named will child then you just you get it true for free. So it's a big about four dollars each for a crazy line up Guys support the show and support me in my crazy ways. You want to do Hamilton Morris That's fine. You got like four pounds of Four pounds a month for the bench category and here. Let me read it. I have it in here But me too. It's like you do that for five Seven months and you already got seven episodes at the end Like it just not does not have anywhere is pretty close I am now releasing a podcast that consists of interviews with chemist farmer colleges and other people I find interesting at this tier is four pounds a month probably five bucks You'll be able to access all podcast videos and other materials each month I will release a Q&A podcast questions asked by patrons patrons at higher tiers receive priority and Discord access. Hey, is there a you be tripping discord? There should be someone commented that there is there should be get in there and start it up. It should be free for everybody Eight bucks to ubermensch at this tier any messages or questions you have Prioritized for response in the month the Q&A podcast the added support you provide helps fund more ambitious video projects Yeah, doesn't want his pockets. It goes back to you 1950 Luftmensch Sponsors guarantee just make sure to specify the same message and questions you said wow Make a new documentary projects expensive money this tier will greatly facilitate the filming of new doc projects Go ahead guys. If you like psychedelic research go support him That's it. What a fucking episode. So now I got to get to this. I got to get to the problems ahead Nope this way They lost We're up one nothing in the 50 fifth minute. We're up one nothing in the 82nd minute That means with about 18 minutes left to play There would have been 17 minutes. That's a play if they didn't fucking let up any goals England's going to the finals and they didn't they didn't do it. They played defensive in a way I've never it was like they were all over. They were a England was up one nothing and it felt like they were down 10 to 1 Argentina was all over us. You could feel at the bar two shots at the cross bar. We got lucky You got to survive, but it's like there's no attack. They just stopped attack heard messy say We could tell England didn't want it I've been waiting since 1966 for this 60 years I've been waiting and I thought this is the year that it's coming home Well, it wasn't It wasn't at all it's a disappointment, but man, I'll tell you this pub culture for world cup games I'm done done as a fan If I had my shit out of storage over put my Tottenham jersey on Personalized Tottenham jersey with the shuffeeer in the back. I'm a hot spur plus member now I can't wait for the season. We're making some moves I'm still going to call it soccer My plan is to anger the British people by mocking their accents and calling things like soccer Instead of the left the elevator this guy ordered at a pub. I was like can we get a brat worse than he goes Do you need a sausage and chips? I go no brought worse than french fries They know what I mean. We're the dominant culture We're the dominant colonized Isn't that funny? We colonized the United States But we broke off we were the colonies. No, that means we're the colonizers. Yeah, the US is the colonizers damn damn But then we were like hey, you can't colonize us. It's like Taiwan. Am I right about this in Taiwan? They were like hey, we're out of here. We want some political freedom We're going to leave where we don't get persecuted then they went to this area Taiwan where they just decimated the local population And they go okay, we got to eradicate them but leave us alone China. We're the good guys Everyone's the bad guys Anyway, guys, that's the episode. I have I really have nothing left to say go get the end right now Ari Shafir.com you will receive all the YMH lies for free right now as a bonus for the one-year anniversary of YMH live But only until I think how to be mid-August at latest. Why don't you just do it right now if you're new to this podcast? Please subscribe if you're here for Hamilton Morris guys. I do Episodes every week about travel in different places. They are in fairness not as exciting as this one usually But they are pretty exciting for people who have gone over to crazy places had to hunt crocodiles for food in the jungles of Congo To people who were taking their very first chip abroad in Greece and and had to work up the courage to get themselves a Doom buggy because they're afraid of getting cheated. I get both of them. I Relate more to the doom buggy one. It's that was an age fully episode We've got a great backlog and we got a whole bunch and I do want to do this by the way anyone who hasn't guessed it yet I'm giving away two free tickets to a show. I Will leave a comment You should know this. I mean, I do a travel podcast. So you should kind of know I've talked about all probably all these countries Look at the top suger episode when I got back from travel in South America That should do it 24 of the 48 countries in World Cup. I've been to 20 of the 32 that advanced I've been to and then what else was there. Let me go to the you be tripping podcast YouTube to see my comment where I left a hint If you guessed the 24 two free tickets to any show, let me do this here Okay, come on load up please load up please This is Wales with Joe list and Sarah tollamosh really good episode and treat and sexual relations Okay, nobody got this. Okay, 24 of the 48 participate countries 20 of the 32 in the knockouts teams 13 of the 16 round of 16 teams So I mean actually pretty much get it seven out of eight quarterfinal countries and four of four countries in the semis I also left more hints where in that Comment I started telling people how many they got wrong That should narrow down. I mean, you know, it's not breaking anything America. You know, it's England You don't know. I mean, you got to listen to the podcast a little more God, I want you to get it if not then on next week's episode with big J. Okerson Amsterdam Very fun episode like J's are it's rarely about the place and more about his trip Love Blue J Okerson If not, I'm just going to tell you on that episode if you don't get it on this I'm going to tell you on that How's that? How's that sound? How about that? How about that? Cash me outside it. All right guys. That's it. Thank you very much for tuning in. There was something I was going to say, but I don't remember what it was Oh, pub culture Now whatever. Fuck off. All right Thank you Hamilton. I appreciate it. Did you rule? You really rule and I'm going to take you up on that offer You gave me the next time I come back to the United States Because I'm interested Also, where how do you get I haven't really tried that hard yet, but where's the, how do you buy smoke here? Like, I smell it on the streets, everywhere. You don't, cops don't seem to care. But like, where do you get it? As anyone else, not like some hookup where I gotta call you, like where would one get it if they don't know you? Leave a comment for the algorithm. Okay, bye.