Full Story Behind 'The Carman Family Deaths' Documentary Changes EVERYTHING

In this week's investigation, we're diving into a case so bizarre that it will have you second guessing until the very end. Three deaths in the same family with one member of that family at the center of it all. This person killed at least once that we know of, this person's gotten away with murder, and chances are it will happen again. This is the case behind Netflix's newest true crime documentary, and this episode will probably be extremely long, and we have a lot to go over, so we're wasting no time jumping in to this one. I've been aware of this case for nearly a decade. I first heard about it probably around like 2016, 2017. I definitely learned a lot that I did not know watching the documentary, so I found it pretty fascinating, and as true crime documentaries go, I think it was a pretty good one. Throughout this week's episode of Hot in the Case, I will be referencing the documentary, specifically things that they did not mention in the documentary, but the lump sum of this episode is going to be doing an overview, deep dive on this case and this family. So if you have not seen the Netflix documentary yet, that is no problem at all, and if you have only seen the documentary on this case, and that's your only prior knowledge, on this case, diving into this week's episode, I definitely should have some new information that the documentary did not include. And like I said, we are diving right in to the Carman family deaths. My name is Brianna, and I'm hot on the case. On September 17th, 2016, 56-year-old Linda Carman and her 22-year-old husband, Nathan Carman, left for a fishing trip out of Rhode Island on Nathan's boat named Chicken Pox. Fishing was something that the mother and son duo did a lot together, even though honestly, it was not Linda's favorite thing in the world. She did not like fish. She did not like eating fish. Fishing made her pretty skittish overall, but it was how her and her son were able to bond, just go out for hours, and just have quality one-on-one time together. So it was something that I really enjoyed, and I think that's why I'm so excited to be here. It was something that the mother and son did probably once every two weeks. And since out at sea, you do not have cell phone service, Linda, who, like I said, was pretty skittish out on the water, would tell her best friend her and her son's entire plan going fishing. Linda would tell her friends, we're leaving at this time out of this marina on this boat. This is the boat's serial number. We're fishing at this spot on this particular day. Linda and Nathan, we're planning on fishing around this area called Block Island. Linda would also always tell her friends what time they could expect her and Nathan to be back on land. And as an extra precaution, Linda would actually tell her friends, if I'm not back by this time, and you have not heard from me by this certain time, then something is wrong. Well, that time that Linda gave her friends was about noon, and noon came and went. And Linda and Nathan did not come back. And when friends and family realized that they did not return, they were reported missing. And immediately, the Coast Guard began searching. The Coast Guard actually searched over 64,000 nautical square miles, an area larger than the state of Georgia. And there were no signs of Linda, her son Nathan, or Nathan's boat. And after extensively searching the area surrounding Block Island for six days, Linda and Nathan were able to find the boat. And Linda and Nathan were able to find the boat. And the Coast Guard made the very hard decision to call off the search. The mother and son, who were once presumed lost at sea, were now presumed dead. But the very next day, eight days after Linda and Nathan vanished at sea, something seemingly unbelievable happened. On September 25th, a large Chinese cargo ship called the Orient Lucky was coming by when the captain noticed that the boat was missing. down. Nathan said the plan was originally to go fishing around that area Block Island but the decision was changed to instead go fishing at Block Canyon, an area much farther out into the ocean and much more dangerous. This was actually an area that no fisherman would go without like at least four extremely skilled captains and although Nathan and Linda liked fishing and they went every couple of weeks. They were not experts by any means. This was definitely a hobby and they never went deep sea fishing. Nathan had wanted to go deep sea fishing by Block Canyon multiple times but his mother never agreed to go deep sea fishing because she was so worried about their safety. This was actually an area 70 miles farther out into sea than they had ever gone before. Nathan said it actually took them until sunrise to get out to Block Canyon and remember they left around 11 p.m midnight and while out by Block Canyon fishing for tuna it was around midday on September 18th this was remember the time that Linda told her friends that they should be back and if they hadn't heard from her by noon to call for help that something was wrong but it was around midday on September 18th that Nathan said he heard strange noises coming from the engine compartment and when he went to check it out he found that the boat was taking in large amounts of water. Not wanting to panic his mother Nathan did not tell his mom right away that the boat was taking in water but Nathan did not think that this was a big deal. He did not think the boat was going to sink and he really didn't think it was that big of a problem and thought that he would be able to fix what was going on. So instead to distract her, Nathan says that he just had his mom bring in the fishing lines as he tried to remedy the problem. And as he was doing so, Nathan went and grabbed the lifeboat and other survival gear just in case. And even though he had access to them when he went to go grab the lifeboat and the survival gear, Nathan never once turned on his emergency beacon, radioed for help, or sent a distress signal. And before Nathan knew it, it was too late. Within minutes, the boat completely filled with water and sunk beneath their feet. Luckily, Nathan was able to throw out the inflatable life raft. This was the kind of lifeboat that the second it hit water, it would fill up with air. And he already had that other survival gear that I told you about close by. So he jumped off the sinking boat into the water and climbed upon the inflatable raft. And by the time he made it to safety on the inflatable life raft, Nathan noticed that he couldn't see or hear his mother. His boat had completely sunk underwater and had seemed to have just taken his mother with it. Nathan did not see what happened. His mother was said to be a really strong swimmer, but he called out for her. He used this emergency whistle that he had with him on the lifeboat to try and guide his mother to him, but he never saw her again. She was gone. Nathan, this is United States Coast Guard, Boston. Over. Mom and I, two people, myself and my mom, were fishing, and there was a funny noise. In the engine compartment, I looked and saw a lot of water. The boat just dropped out from under my feet. When I saw the life raft, I did not see my mom. Have you found her? No, we haven't been able to find her yet. And as soon as word got out that Nathan was rescued on an inflatable life raft after a week, just floating in the middle of the ocean, this was a huge story across the entire nation. It was this tragic accident, but at the same time, this remarkable story of survival. I mean, you have this young man, he loses his mother out at sea, and then he's floating by himself in the vast ocean on this tiny little blow-up raft for over a week. And somehow, the day after the Coast Guard calls off the search, this cargo ship just so happens to be going by and finds him. It truly seems like this heroic. remarkable story of survival, at least at first. Because very quickly, public opinion began to switch. I was lost at sea. My mom died. But it would be great to have people embracing you, saying we're glad you're home, we're glad you're alive. And also helping me to deal with my mom's death. Hasn't been that. There were some odd things, things in Nathan's story that just did not add up. And I will get into that. But probably the biggest thing that made investigators and the public immediately suspicious of Nathan was his behavior. He did not look like a young man grieving the loss of his mother. He was emotionless. He seemed cold and calculating. Around age four or five years old, Nathan Carman was diagnosed with Asperger's. This is now considered an outdated term. Today, he would be considered a more high-functioning person. But he was not. He was not. He was not. He was not. With autism spectrum disorder. Nathan was always a little socially awkward. It was difficult for Nathan to make constant eye contact when speaking with someone. Nathan had trouble showing a lot of emotion or empathy and was more calculated in his thought and speech. And I'm going to do my best to put in as many videos of Nathan talking so you can hear him talk about what happened in this case. And I want all of you to keep in mind while watching those videos or listening to those videos, if you're not watching the video version of the podcast, that this is an individual diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder. If at any point you start to think that his behavior is weird, that he's not acting right, that he's not acting the way that you would expect someone in his situation to act. When trying to come up with your decision if you think Nathan Carman is guilty or innocent, try to limit that to a little bit. If you think Nathan Carman is guilty or innocent, try to limit that as being a factor in your decision. And rely more on the facts of the case. Since we spoke a week ago, there's been a lot of speculation. People are suspicious of you. What do you want to say to those people who are saying something about his story that just isn't adding up? I'm not aware that those people exist. There are suspicions about the boat trip. Since we last got together a week ago, I've said the way it happened. I'm just asking you to defend yourself against these people who are saying that you did something to your boat that would make it sink. That's not true. If you have someone in your life that is on the spectrum, I'm sure a lot about what I just mentioned about Nathan, you know, trouble showing and expressing his emotions, trouble, maintaining eye contact might sound really familiar to you. But to the investigators, it made Nathan Carman suspicious of murder, especially after diving into Nathan and his family's background and learning that this was not the first time in Nathan's life that he was suspected of killing one of his family members after he was the last person to see them alive. So let's look more into this entire family. The whole thing is going to be extremely complicated, so bear with me because it all matters. Nathan's mother, Linda, was one of four daughters born to her mother, Ruth, and her father, John Chaklos. The Chaklos daughters in birth order were Elaine, the eldest, Linda, Nathan's mother, Charlene, and Valerie, the youngest. And growing up, all of these girls were just extremely close. Their father, John, had this big, larger than life, personality. His entire life, he was extremely hardworking. He was an entrepreneur, started a bunch of different businesses. He was an extremely successful real estate developer. John really made a name for himself and his family developing nursing homes and care facilities. He would actually like name them after his daughters. It was super cute. There would be like Elaine Manor and then Linda Manor, Charlene, and Valerie Manor. It was super cute. And this man's hard work certainly paid off. This family had money. They were extremely wealthy. The family lived in this grand mansion. It was like 20,000 square feet. It was called the Grand Colonial Mansion. And I mean like the outside and the inside of this home is like the epitome of luxury and wealth. It feels like you're stepping into a museum and not seeing somewhere where people like actually live. A huge indoor swimming pool. They had their own tennis court. One summer, John even had elephants brought in to just roam his 88 acres of land. But behind those grand mansion doors, there was immense dysfunction woven throughout this family. There were rumors of John's infidelity, that he was possessive and controlling, especially with those four daughters. John wanted to control every aspect of his daughter's lives even after his daughters entered adulthood and became wives and parents themselves. It's been said that Nathan's mother, Linda, was the most like her father, John. They both had these big personalities. They were both strong-willed and stubborn and hard and hot-headed. And it was because they were so alike and both shared all these personality traits that Linda and John would butt heads. They were so different, but at the same time, so similar, if that makes sense. Whereas Linda's three sisters would just do whatever their father wanted of them, Linda really wanted to break the mold and go against her father's wishes. I don't back down from my father. Yeah. And that's just his personality not to back down. Yeah. And it's not his personality to back down either. So if anyone would have fought with him, you know, it would have been me. Yeah. Yeah. When Linda got older, she told her conservative East Coast father that she was moving out west to California. And as you can imagine, this did not go over well. John threatened to disown Linda and cut her out of his will. But Linda went to California anyway, and it was there that she met Clark Carman and the two later married. And before they could start a family of their own, Linda's father, John, reached out with an opportunity. It's been said that John could not take no for an answer and no matter what would always end up getting his way and that he would even resort to manipulation if he had to. So John offered to buy his daughter and new West Coast son-in-law their own Dunkin Donuts franchise if they moved back home. So they packed up all of their belongings and their entire lives and moved across the entire country to the West Coast. The East Coast, like Linda's father, John, wanted. And then John did not buy them a Dunkin Donuts. He was like, oh, you thought I was serious, sweetie? That was that was just a joke. Nathan was the only child born to his parents, Clark and Linda. His parents ended up divorcing when Nathan was still really young. And after that, his father really wasn't in the picture. And Nathan was raised by his mother in Middletown, Connecticut. Nathan was the first born grandson. And since John himself did not have any sons, Nathan became the apple of his grandfather, John's eye. John was absolutely obsessed with Nathan from the moment that Nathan was born. And he doted on Nathan for his entire life. But all that love also came with a want for control. Nathan was just the newest thing for John and Linda to disagree and argue about after Nathan's diagnosis. Linda learned everything she could about autism spectrum disorder. She even started working as an aide for parents that also had children with autism. She read pretty much every single book written on autism at the time. She wanted Nathan to see a counselor and see specialists. But John wanted Nathan to just be raised like every other kid. John was of the older generation. Back when he was young, no one had even really heard of autism before. He would insist that there was nothing different with his grandson and that Nathan did not need to see psychiatrists and specialists. Have you ever heard the saying, "He was raised with a silver spoon in his mouth?" It pretty much means like a kid from the second they're born is just like drowning in wealth. Well, that was Nathan. Because his extremely wealthy grandfather was obsessed with him at home, he did not want for anything. If Nathan wanted something, he would just get it. In school, Nathan had a very different experience. Nathan was outcasted because he was different and he was bullied and he did not have any friends. Nathan became a loner because I think it was easier for him to just say, "I don't want to be around people" than for him to be excluded. It was easier that way when Nathan was the only kid in class not invited to the big birthday party or invited to play dates and sleepovers like all the other kids. Nathan really loved horses. he was actually given his own horse. It was this beautiful horse named Cruz and Cruz was Nathan's best and only friend. Going into his teen years, Nathan and his mother Linda's relationship was already turning sour when Nathan's horse Cruz passed away and this was absolutely devastating for Nathan and after that he just wanted to be alone all of the time. He was still in high school, he was about 17 years old when this happened and he was telling his mom that he just needed to get away, he needed to be alone and he wanted to move out of her home. So to compromise, Linda bought this large RV, parked it in the driveway and let Nathan move in there. That way Nathan could have his space. It was his own little kind of apartment and Linda still felt like she could keep him close because he was just in the driveway. But Nathan is really struggling, his mental health is really bad and he's really struggling with his health. So he's trying to get his mental health back. So he's trying to get his mental health is not doing well. Nathan started making any excuse not to leave his RV. He wasn't talking to anyone, he wasn't eating, the RV was a disaster, he wasn't taking care of it, he was living in filth. He was peeing in plastic bottles. I don't know if the RV didn't have a bathroom but it was pretty big, it was like 32 feet so I imagine that it would. But he was still peeing in plastic bottles and then just leaving them all throughout the RV. He was pushing away from his RV and he was pushing away from his family. He was pushing away from his church. It got so bad that Linda made the decision to have Nathan admitted into a psychiatric unit of a hospital which infuriated her father John. Linda hoped with Nathan going into the hospital that for a while Nathan would just speak with doctors and therapists and specialists to figure out what was going on without distractions of back home. She did not want him to have any visitors, while in the hospital. But John went against his daughter's wishes and visited Nathan in the hospital every single day. And honestly John was disgusted in his daughter's choices as a parent. I think this all goes back to when John himself was younger. John actually had a twin sister named Kiki and unfortunately Kiki suffered with severe depression. This was a long time ago, it was decades and decades ago. And when Kiki was admitted into a hospital, they treated her with electric shock therapy. And ever since then, John had a seemingly immense disgust with psychiatric hospitals. And this resulted in a huge fight between Linda and her father John. They both had huge issues with the other. John thought that Linda was a terrible mother to his favorite grandson Nathan. He was also extremely frustrated with her because it seemed like Linda was always having trouble with money. While John was still alive, John set something up for his daughters. It was a living trust. So every single week or month, all four of his daughters would get a payment. And in total, the daughters were getting like $25,000 a month from their father's living trust. But even so, Linda seemed to always be in a really bad financial situation. Linda actually had a really bad gambling addiction, and sometimes she would disappear for days. It's like an addict going on a drug binge, but instead it was with gambling. Linda drained a trust fund that her father John set up for her own son Nathan. Since Nathan was a minor, John had to put an adult in charge of the trust fund. And it was the kind of trust fund where if Nathan needed anything and they couldn't get to John for him to take out his checkbook, they would have to go to the bank and pay for it. So John had to put an adult in charge of the trust fund and put one of Nathan's aunts in charge of it because he couldn't trust his daughter anymore. Linda was frustrated because in her mind, her father tried to control her life, her entire life, and is now trying to control how she raises her only child, Nathan. Linda wanted Nathan institutionalized and John wanted Nathan home immediately. So John calls a family meeting in the waiting room of the hospital that Nathan was being treated at. And this family meeting really just becomes a huge blow up between John and Linda. And it actually like ends with John threatening again to cut Linda off. He wasn't going to be giving her the $25,000 a month anymore and was going to be cutting her out of his will. And then I guess he kind of like pushed her, kind of shoved her a little bit. So Linda full-on attacked her elderly father, like punching him, kicking him. It was like really intense. It was so bad that Linda was actually arrested. She was charged with assaulting an elderly person. And while she was being arrested, allegedly Linda said, to one of the arresting officers, quote, John eventually did have the charges against his daughter, Linda dropped, but apparently this was like an extremely normal occurrence between Linda and John. Like they would be violent towards each other quite often. And when Nathan was eventually released from the hospital, he refused to speak to his mom or ever enter her house again. So to retaliate, I guess, Linda changed her will. So if she passed away, Nathan wouldn't get her house because she's like, you won't even walk in my house anyways. So you're not getting the house. If she passed away, he would still get her money. Prior to the documentary coming out, there was a lot of misinformation that she changed her will and like cut him out of the will completely. She just changed the will. So he would not get her house. He still got everything else that belonged to his mom. If she was going to pass away that same year, Nathan ran away from home. His family was worried sick, his grandfather, his mother, his aunts, they put missing person flyers all around town. The police got involved. Eventually they found that he was seen on CCTV footage at a bus station. And they found that he was seen on CCTV footage at a bus station. And they found that he had been on a bus. Nathan was found five days later, 600 miles from home. On him, he had $4,000 in cash, two pictures of him and his late horse, Cruz, and a Ziploc bag of Cruz's hair. He said he planned to go to a horse farm down south in Florida. Again, Nathan is spiraling. He's really not doing well. He's completely alone. His relationship with his mom is at an all-time low. And Nathan starts acting out in school. And since Netflix has come out with a documentary on Nathan and Nathan's family, I've seen a lot of people come out and post online that claim to have gone to school with Nathan and knew him personally through, you know, school or the church, whatever you have it. And these people say that Nathan wasn't outcasted because he was different. He wasn't outcasted because of his autism. They say that he was outcasted because he was aggressive, violent, and scary. Nathan always had to be right. And if he ever thought that one of his teachers or his classmates were wrong, he would become disruptive and aggressive. I think it's very likely that in this case, two things can be correct at the same time. I'm sure it's very possible that Nathan was aggressive, that he was violent and disruptive, and that he really disliked the people at his school. I'm also sure that Nathan was bullied and outcasted because he was different. And I'm sure of that because I went to high school and I have eyes. Kids are terrible. I'm also really interested to know which came first. Was Nathan bullied and outcasted at school because he was aggressive and he did not like his other classmates? Or did he not like his other classmates because he was bullied? There's no excuse for violence either way. But you get what I'm saying. Nathan's behavior at his school did get dangerous. At one point, he reportedly was being bullied so bad that he pulled a knife on a classmate that was bullying him. He also called his vice principal like the literal devil. Nathan even had the police called on him one Halloween because he was handing out bags of fish guts to little trick-or-treaters. So in the fall of 2011, Linda made a very controversial decision as a parent. Linda had her son abducted. In the middle of the night, two men that Nathan did not know, they were complete strangers to him, came in while Nathan was sleeping and these men kidnapped Nathan against his will. This was one of those really disturbing behavior correction camps. They're extremely controversial and they have been exposed in the last handful of years for being extremely abusive and causing PTSD and even death. At this point, Nathan really only had his grandfather, John. Not only did John support Nathan, but he was really proud of him. He would bring Nathan everywhere with him, introduce him to all these important people, bring him to business meetings. John would make these huge donations in Nathan's name. John was a very generous man with his wealth. Not only did he make huge charitable donations, but he was very generous with it with his family. I'm sure you can imagine when I said that his daughters got $25,000 every single month. John got Nathan his own apartment so he could move out of his mother's place. John paid for Nathan's rent. He paid for school. He bought Nathan a brand new truck. He gave him thousands of dollars every single month. John still had his luxurious mansion in New Hampshire that we talked about earlier, but at the time he was living in a pretty modest home in Connecticut, and I think he was doing this so he could be closer, to Nathan, because this is where Linda and Nathan lived. And there were actually talks at the time that John was going to let Nathan move in to his huge mansion at a state in New Hampshire. But going into 2013, all that support and financial stability that Nathan had was threatened. In November of 2013, the week before Thanksgiving, Linda's mother and John's wife Rita passed away from lung cancer. John and her had been married for a long time, and they were married for a long time. For over 50 years, and he was left absolutely devastated. And only one month later, tragedy would strike this family again. This time, it was only five days before Christmas. 87-year-old John Choklis, who was known for putting on these really elaborate Christmas displays, it was like six million Christmas lights, and he'd put on these elaborate displays to help raise money and gather food donations. And the last thing we need to know is that John Choklis, who lives in New Hampshire and lives in New York City, is the son of John Choklis, and he was found murdered in his home in his bed by his eldest daughter, Elaine. John was shot three times in the head in his sleep with a large-caliber firearm. Initially, there were thoughts that this was a mob hit because John was this big, successful, self-made millionaire. It was suspected that he dealt with some shady characters, but it was determined that his death was not consisted with a mob hit, and was not linked to organized crime. The mob don't use like these large-caliber assault rifles when they're taking out a hit on someone. It's a really big gun. It makes a lot of noise, and it's just not consistent with like a mob hit or a hitman. When the mob want someone dead, that person disappears. They're not found murdered in their home, typically. So then maybe investigators are thinking that this is a break-in, a robbery gone wrong. John has lots of money, lots of money, and he's not going to be able to get out of this. But there was nothing stolen from the home. It really did appear that this was just cold-blooded murder. So investigators start looking at people closest to John because there was evidence that the scene was actually staged to look like a break-in. And the only reason someone would want to cover up their motive is because, you know, likely they know the person that they're killing. And the evidence that the scene was staged was one of the glass panels on the back door was actually smashed from the inside. And other than that poor attempt at staging the scene to look like a break-in, there were no other signs of forced entry. John's daughter, Linda, was first seen as a person of interest because they had this known terrible relationship, and she was arrested for assaulting him only a few years earlier. Linda also had a pretty big motive for wanting her father, that she seemingly hated, dead. When John died, he left his daughters, and his state worth over $42 million to be split amongst them. And for someone with a gambling addiction that hates their father, it was really easy for investigators to put two and two together and say, this looks like someone with motive. You don't need your weapons? No. Anybody else in the family don't need your weapons? No. Anybody have access to any weapons? Anybody that knows anybody that knows anybody that has weapons? Nothing at all. Okay. So we've got no weapons. We've got no enemies that we know of. That we know of. But Linda had an alibi. Her phone records and her phone's location placed her exactly where she told the investigators that she was. So suspicion quickly fell on Nathan. Turns out Nathan was actually the last person to see his grandfather alive. The two men had dinner at John's house the night before. Nathan said that it was a really nice evening, and the night ended around 8 p.m. That's when the men parted ways. Nathan left his grandfather's house because he had to meet his mother for one of their fishing trips around 3 a.m. The issue is, in the span of time where it is believed that John was murdered, there is about an hour where Nathan is completely unaccounted for. And in fact, he was over an hour late to meeting his mother with no explanation why. Other than claiming that he got lost on the highway, but he got lost on the highway. And he got lost on the highway, driving in an area where he was extremely familiar with. And because her son is over an hour late, and they were supposed to meet in this like empty parking lot in the middle of the night so they could drive down to the marina together, Linda's calling her son over and over again. She calls him like five times, but he never answered. For that entire hour, Nathan's phone was actually turned off. And because it was turned off, it could not be traced. And we have no idea where he was. Investigators really pushed back on Nathan. If your mother is alone in a parking lot at 3 a.m. and you are going on an hour late, and then over an hour late, wouldn't you call your mom to let her know that you're running late while she's just sitting in a dark, empty parking lot all by herself? Like, what kind of son are you? Also very strange, before Nathan's grandfather was killed, Nathan disposed of a hard drive from his computer and a GPS from his truck. And the same day that John was found killed, Nathan was brought in to be interviewed by police. And one of the first things he says to police is he references the fact that his grandfather had his head blown off. Even though at this point, he should have had no way of knowing his grandfather's cause or manner of death. The only people at this point that should have known that John Chaklis had been killed was his mother. And so, Nathan was brought in to be shot in the head, was his daughter that found him, and she did not tell anyone other than the person that she spoke with when she called 911. The police and his killer. Nathan actually had his own theory and person of interest who he believed possibly could have murdered his grandfather. Allegedly, for the past year, John Chaklis was having an affair with a very young woman. She was 25 years old, 62 years younger than him. This woman also allegedly had a quote drug dealer boyfriend unquote. She was questioned and seemingly ruled out as a suspect. From the very start, the investigators that were interrogating Nathan felt that Nathan could have been their killer. In their initial interview, Nathan told the officers that he did not have a gun and that he never owned a gun. Do you own any firearms? I do have an air gun. Okay. I'm not sure if that counts as a firearm, but is that the only one? Yes, it is. But six months after his grandfather was killed, the officers got a search warrant to search Nathan's home, and they found a receipt showing that Nathan Carman bought a Sig Sawyer assault rifle only a few weeks before his grandfather was murdered. He bought this assault rifle on November 11th, and his grandfather was killed on December 20th. He also bought this assault rifle out of state with cash, so it could not be traced, for over $2,000. This was also the same caliber weapon that was used to murder his grandfather, John. So not only did he lie about owning a gun, but that gun was never located. To this day, it's never been found. And Nathan said even though he bought this gun, less than 39 days before the officers asked him if he had a gun, he just forgot that he bought it, and he must have lost it. Everyone in John's family agreed to take a polygraph test except Nathan. And when his mother Linda took her polygraph, she actually had to take the test multiple times because she kept failing it on one question. She could not pass the question, do you know who killed your father? Is it possible that Nathan killed his grandfather? And Linda knew that Nathan killed John? I mean, it's her only child, her boy, that has struggled his entire life. And as his mother, would she do anything to protect him? Linda's entire family, including her three sisters, truly believed that Linda and Nathan knew more than they were telling police, and that Nathan killed their father. They actually paid to put up these billboards all across the highway that Linda and Nathan would have to take almost every day. And they almost every single day. The billboards advertised a $250,000 reward for information in their father's unsolved murder. And this way, every single day, Linda and Nathan would have to look at John's face. The pastor from the family's local church claims that shortly after John was murdered, Linda and Nathan came in and they were there for a very long time. Nathan was kneeling down at the altar with his hands stretched out to the heavens. He was praying and begging God for forgiveness. His mother sat in the back row of the church watching her son. Pretty much Nathan's biggest defense was that he was the person in his grandfather's family with the least to gain if his grandfather was killed. I mean, he wasn't one of John's four daughters that was set to split $40 million. His grandfather was the only person that understood him. So, his grandfather was fully supporting him financially. He paid for his rent. He bought him a new truck. He was giving him thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. John was giving Nathan like $100,000 a year. After his grandfather died, Nathan did end up walking away with about $500,000. But after everything that his grandfather was giving him, he was paying for his rent, he would buy him anything he needed and giving him like $100,000 every single year, That kind of money didn't really seem worth it, I guess, in a way, to murder the person that loved you most and risk going to jail forever. A neighbor of John's claims that the night that John was killed, he heard gunshots around 2 in the morning. And this, if true, gives Nathan Carman an alibi for his grandfather's murder. At 2 a.m., Nathan was seen on his apartment's surveillance cameras. And he was there. Until about 3 a.m. when he left to go meet his mother for their fishing trip. If the neighbor's testimony is correct, that means that Nathan did not kill his grandfather. But of course, it is possible that the neighbor got the time wrong. And only three years later, he is the last person to see his mother, Linda, alive. And once again, finds himself as the prime suspect for murder. So, at what point in your life. would you say that you became really close with your grandfather? Here's where I have a bit of an issue. My understanding was we were going to be sitting down, and you were going to be, we were going to be talking about. Yeah, the raft is my next bit, but we did explain that we need to hear about. your whole life leading up to this incident. That's something I. How can people know who Nathan is if we don't tell them? What was your relationship like with your grandfather? I'm not talking about my relationship with my grandfather or with. If you want to ask me any more questions on that line, we're done here. Can you tell me more about what your grandfather did? He was a big figure in this part of the country. That's not what this interview is about. Was there an issue with the boat that needed to be fixed? No, there were. I. We're done. Nathan, I'm trying to give you an opportunity to speak out against these allegations that have been made. The only way that I can speak out against them is to say what actually happened, and that's what I've been trying to do. Another thing that's happened since we last got together, Lee searched your mom's home. Yeah, we're. Do you know anything about that? We're done for this evening, period. We're done here. We're not trying to make you uncomfortable. We're trying to give you an opportunity to answer some of these allegations. We're done here this evening. If you have nothing to hide, there shouldn't be a problem answering the questions. The same family members that believed that Nathan killed John actually warned Linda. That he likely killed her father, and that she was likely going to be next. It was actually Linda's great-nephew that told her to never go fishing with her son again. He warned Linda, If you go on a boat with him, you are not coming back. That was the last time he ever spoke to Linda. Nathan was his mother's sole beneficiary, and with her gone, Nathan was set to inherit an additional. $7 million. So the theory was, after his grandmother passed away, Nathan killed his grandfather. He inherited a little bit of money, but his mother inherited a lot of money. He then waits a little bit, and then he kills his mother so he can fast-track his inheritance and inherit as much money as possible. If Nathan killed his grandfather before his grandmother passed away from her lung cancer, then she would have inherited all of his millions. If Nathan killed. his mother before his grandfather passed away, then his three aunts would have inherited her portion of the money. And this is not just me speculating. These are thoughts that Nathan was having, and we have proof of that. Before his grandfather was killed, Nathan actually reached out to his grandfather's trust and estate attorney with a lot of questions about his family's money and what he was set to inherit. Specifically, he asked how much money he would inherit if his grandfather, and his mother both passed away. And in which order they would have to die so he could inherit the most money as possible. I mean, that does not look good. After Nathan was rescued, he held a memorial service for his missing mother. And no one from his mother's side of the family attended, because they truly believed that Nathan has now killed two members of their family. You were convinced that Nathan had killed his grandfather. Correct. And now you're convinced that he killed his own mother? I'm very grateful to the friends and family who attended in memory of my mom. Nathan, you've been through so much. How have you been these last several weeks? It's been very difficult. How was the service? How was the service? Can you tell us a little bit about it, Nathan? No, it's great. And how was the service? How was the service today, Nathan? The whole family was invited. I'm glad that many of my mom's friends chose to attend. And I think the service was a good time for us to come together and support one another. How many would you say were there? Several. Are you sad your aunts didn't show up? I wish very much that my whole family could have come together to pray for my mom. But I made sure that they were invited and that they had an opportunity to come. Have police told you anything about the status of the investigation in Rhode Island? I wish desperately that my mom was rescued. I hope that she will be found. And as difficult as this is, I'm glad that family and friends, had a chance and that friends came together to remember my mom and to support each other in this very difficult time. Can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with her? Now I'm going to drive off. And what about your grandfather? I need to close my door. Okay. Sorry, Nathan. Take care of yourself. In a case seemingly all about money and greed, it is not surprising that money, ultimately, was Nathan's downfall. Two weeks after being rescued at sea, Nathan filed an $85,000 insurance claim on his missing boat. And if Nathan never filed that insurance claim, it's extremely likely that he would be a free man walking amongst society today. Like insurance companies do, especially with a large payout on the line, they do a little bit of an investigation, you can say. The insurance company actually goes out to the marina where Nathan kept his boat, and they learned some very interesting things. Witnesses reported that the day that Nathan and his mother went out on his boat, and only he came back, Nathan spent the entire day alone working on his boat. Reportedly, he drilled holes into the boat, and also took something off of his boat called the trim tabs. And these are like metal pieces. And when he removed the trim tabs, they would have also left holes on his boat. And clearly, I am absolutely sure that Nathan was absolutely no expert on boats. So please do not come from me, but from my research and what I saw in the documentary, apparently these repairs that Nathan did to the boat could have resulted in the boat sinking. Something that the documentary did not mention was at the end of the insurance company's investigation, their finding was that Nathan intentionally sunk his boat. So not only was his claim denied, Nathan was going to court. During his deposition, Nathan was asked a lot of questions he was asked questions about his alleged insurance fraud but he was also asked a lot of questions about his grandfather's murder and his mother's disappearance during the deposition Nathan pled the fifth 81 times the judge in the civil lawsuit found that Nathan's boat sank either directly or indirectly because of the repairs that he made to the boat and since he was now found liable in the court of law for his boat sinking this opened the gates for Nathan to be charged with murder the insurance company actually had a lot more resources than even the police department did so after their court date ended they actually handed over all their information to the police and also the FBI and if you think that I've shared information that makes information that makes information that makes Nathan Carmen look guilty you haven't heard anything yet when Nathan Carmen and his mother first vanished at sea police got a warrant to search both of their homes and both of their cars to see if they could find any information that might lead to their whereabouts in Nathan's home they found a list that he wrote where he listed out reasons why I am no longer cooperating with the police there's like four reasons why he has decided to leave the house not to cooperate with police anymore he doesn't want to have to prove his innocence to them anymore and this was strange because at this point he was missing and unless this note was three years old when he was a suspect in his grandfather's murder it looked really suspicious also found in Nathan's home was a letter that he wrote to his priest where he wrote how much he hated his mother how their relationship was awful he wrote that his mother would only be happy if he was a non-verbal autistic person that she could just control for the rest of his life he wrote that the distance between him and his mother was the distance between heaven and hell it was also determined before leaving on this fishing trip with his mother that Nathan got rid of his computer with no explanation why meaning that this was the second time that Nathan was the last person to be seen with a family member before they either disappeared or were murdered and Nathan before that Nathan got rid of his computer so it could not be searched before heading to the marina so they could go on their fishing trip Nathan and his mother were both seen on cctv footage purchasing bait they bought like a bucket of eels to use when they go fishing they buy this bait and the marina is only like moments away so it was really confusing when the police got a search warrant to look at both of Nathan and Linda's vehicles they were still parked in the parking lot of the marina remember this is before they were rescued they found that bucket of eels in Nathan's truck he bought the bait with his mother so they could go fishing and then he did not bring it on the boat very suspicious but also in his truck was a receipt that showed that Nathan purchased these items only hours before he left for the fishing trip with his mother Nathan bought a bunch of chains and also bought a bunch of clothes for Nathan to wear on his trip with his mother and then Nathan bought a bunch of chains and also bought a bunch of clothes for Nathan to wear on his trip with his mother also an anchor and this anchor this type of anchor was not compatible with Nathan's boat neither of these materials were in Nathan's truck and they have never been located to this very day which has led many people to theorize that Nathan bought this anchor and chains to weigh down his mother's body after he killed her there have also been a lot of inconsistencies about where and when and how Nathan was rescued like where Nathan was found was about 80 miles in the opposite direction from where he would have drifted if his boat sank where and when he said it did they had like experts that like their entire job is looking at like drift patterns of the sea or whatever I'm not a scientist I don't know there's actually a lot of investigators and experts that don't believe that Nathan was floating on that inflatable life raft for the full week that he was seemingly lost in the sea and scientifically after sitting on a raft in the ocean for that long not walking not using your muscles just bopping up and down in the water Nathan should have not been able to swim he should have not been able to walk or climb up the ladder stairs onto the boat that rescued him unless you factor in adrenaline then I guess anything's possible in 2022 six years after his mother disappeared Nathan was able to swim and he was able to walk and he was able to climb and he was the now 28-year-old Nathan Carman was arrested for her murder. Specifically, he was arrested for committing murder on the high seas. Nathan pled not guilty and he was denied bail, so he would be sitting behind bars until his trial began. The prosecution's theory was as followed. Nathan murdered his grandfather in 2013 and he inherited about $500,000. He was suspected of his grandfather's murder but never charged. His family believed that he was guilty and using his inheritance, he ended up buying this big nice home in Vermont, states away from the rest of his family. He also began spending his money like crazy and he wasn't working either, so he's spending lots of money and not making any money. It was also around this time that Nathan purchased his boat, Chicken Pox, in 2015. And by the time his mother disappeared, Nathan was pretty much broke. He had spent all of his grandfather's money. And this is when he starts planning step two in his calculated devious plan. He was purposefully witnessed by people at the marina doing faulty repairs on his boat, so when his boat did sink, there was a reasonable explanation for it and it could have all just been chalked up as a terrible mistake. After going out on the boat with his mother, he murdered her and then he weighed down her body so it would never be found. He then hid himself and his boat along the coast because the coast guard would not be searching there, they would just be searching the ocean. And then after the search was called off by the coast guard and no one was out there looking for him anymore, Nathan went back out on his boat. He had previously already learned the route that the cargo ship, the Orient Lucky, would be taking that day. And right before he knew that that boat would be coming by, he sunk his boat and jumped on his life wrath and waited, possibly for only a few hours before being rescued by the cargo ship. The defense, obviously, had a lot of issues with this theory. The biggest one being this is an extremely dangerous plan. If he was only off by a little bit, then the cargo ship would have completely missed him and he would be good as dead. It's also an extremely easy plan to make, mess up. If the cargo ship goes a little bit off course and then he sinks his boat a few feet away than where he planned to, he would drift in a completely different area. If someone was going to murder their mother, there would be a lot of easier, safer ways to do it. The defense also said that although Nathan was very smart, the prosecution was giving him way too much credit and that this man that failed out of community college would, not have been able to come up with a plan this calculated. Nathan's trial was set to begin in October of 2023. He never went to court because on June 15th, he brought an end to his own life in his cell. There are a lot of people that believe that Nathan was guilty. He knew he was guilty and knew that he was going to be found guilty and spend the rest of his life behind bars. So in a sense, he was the final victim of the killings. He was the killer in his family. And these were the final actions of a guilty man. There are also a lot of people that believe that Nathan was completely innocent and that he was just an extremely misunderstood individual. And after years of struggling, losing his entire family, and after years of feeling like the entire world was against him, he finally had enough. In 2023, Linda Carmen was officially declared dead. The case into her death is currently closed. Her father's murder is still an unsolved murder and it's considered a cold case today. And following his death, Nathan Carmen's charges were dropped. Meaning, in the eyes of the law, he is an innocent man. Three deaths in the same family, all surrounding one member of this family, Nathan Carmen. To this day, people are left divided. Nathan's father, continues to defend him to this very day. But the rest of his family truly believes that Nathan Carmen was a cold-blooded killer. Since the Carmen family deaths documentary came out on Netflix this week, I have watched it twice. Like I said, I actually do think it was a pretty good true crime documentary. In my opinion, I think the documentary did its best to be unbiased and pretty evenly showed interviews of people defending Nathan and also people that thought that Nathan was guilty. And I think it's a good documentary. I think it's a good documentary. I mean, I think the documentary focused on wanting people to leave the documentary after they finished it. not knowing what they think, you know like being 50/50 and it's for those reasons that I think the documentary kept out some pretty major details that makes Nathan Carmen look pretty guilty. Some of the major things that the documentary did not include was the fact that John was possibly having an affair with a younger woman who was 25 years old and that this woman had a drug dealer boyfriend allegedly or that Nathan got rid of two computers after two members of his family wound up dead and that he removed the GPS from his car the night that his grandfather was killed or the fact that Nathan's phone was turned off for the hour that he was unaccounted for during the time frame that his grandfather was likely murdered. They also did not include the fact that there was a receipt for chains and an anchor that was not compatible with his boat that he had purchased only hours before going on this fishing trip with his mom. I find this one strange because they did include the fact that the bait was found in his truck that he bought before going on the fishing trip with his mom. There's other things that I mentioned throughout this episode that they did not mention in the documentary but I think those are the most major things and for the most part the things that they left out, especially like the major things that they left out, are things that make Nathan look guilty, especially when you add up everything together. And in my opinion, I do not know, I don't work for Netflix, I don't know anyone that works for Netflix, but I think that they chose to omit some of those details to keep the documentary, and if you think Nathan is innocent or guilty, pretty 50/50. And I think the most likely thing that happened in this case is that Nathan Carman murdered his grandfather and that he murdered his mother. There is no physical evidence that he committed either crime, and I agree that a lot of people misinterpret Nathan, what he says, and his behavior because of his autism spectrum disorder, but even if I never heard Nathan talk, if I never watched the video of Nathan, I would still think that the most likely answer is that he is guilty. I still think, even though there is only circumstantial evidence in this case, that Nathan Carman is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. But like always, I want to know what you think. I think there could be such an interesting dialogue in this week's episode because this case is so complicated, complex, and bizarre, and it truly could go either way. Like I said, there is no physical evidence that he committed either crime, just a lot of circumstantial evidence, but there was that neighbor that said that she heard gunshots when Nathan had an alibi, so it's really up in the air. So I need to hear from you. Let me know all your thoughts, theories, and opinions in the comments, but like always, please be respectful, and I will see you guys all next week when we are hot on the case once again.