Full-Stack Manufacturing Optimization | Bridging the Valley of Death

I think at the end of the day, it's always about creating a better process, but better is a relative term, depending on the customer that you're talking to. Everybody needs something different. So, you know, somebody may need a faster toolpath or somebody may need that tool to last twice as long at the end of the day. So for us, it's our responsibility to investigate their needs and instead of reinventing the wheel for them, it's just about turning the wheel faster for them. [Music] Welcome to another episode of Inside ILR. Thank you all for listening today and joining us. So today we are here to kind of say introduce or reintroduce our Center for Manufacturing Advancement. So that is an initiative that we've had for several years and I'm going to turn it over to our four guests to introduce themselves. My name is Jason Wells. I'm the Executive Vice President for Manufacturing Advancement. It's one of the five divisions here on campus at the Institute for Advanced Learning and Research. And the CMA is one of the lines of effort that fall within the Manufacturing Advancement Division. I'm John Ring. I'm Vice President for the Center for Manufacturing Advancement. Hi, I'm Josh Simms. I'm the Vice President of Partnerships for Manufacturing Advancement at the Institute for Advanced Learning and Research. And I'm Jeremiah Williams. I'm the Assistant Director of Technical Innovation and Optimization here at the Center for Manufacturing Advancement. I'm going to start it with the very basic question. Kind of describe to me and any of you can take this. What is the Center for Manufacturing Advancement? Let's go with the one minute short version and then we'll kind of get in the weeds and break it down from there. So the Center for Manufacturing Advancement was really a bit born out of necessity here on campus. We had the initial efforts within our Manufacturing Advancement Division where heavily centered around workforce development, workforce training efforts. And we supplied the industrial base with a tremendous amount of talent through our workforce training efforts. And in the process of doing so, we heavily engaged with industry to help craft a lot of that curriculum and a lot of efforts on that side of the house, which gave us a lot of high visibility and high touch with industrial partners. And as we were putting students out into the industrial space, what we were getting was feedback both from our advisory council members, as well as our graduates about the challenges of bringing technology and deploying technology within their existing confines. And a lot of industry partners knew they had to advance themselves. They knew they had to adopt new technology to stay competitive, to stay price within certain price constraints that the market was demanding. And students were learning, we were teaching them on really high technologies, but they weren't really getting to fully utilize those skill sets when they were getting out into industry. So as we started to integrate and communicate more with these industry partners, what we were finding was a fairly common theme of their inability to really have the time and the bandwidth within their, you know, day-to-day demands of keeping a manufacturing facility running to really focus in and explore technology, evaluate it, and then validate it and then deploy it within their operations. So really discovering this, we found that just by the demands that were put on them, they were putting themselves at somewhat of a not by choice, but by force, competitive disadvantage. So we decided that we would invest and start the Center for Manufacturing Advancement or the CMA in order to create a facility where they could come in and engage with us with our team to really help them do that, that go through that process. And then all the process starts with a really good assessment of where they are now, where they want to get to and then a good project scope, and then engaging in that perspective. It's really important I always try to reiterate to people that the CMA is not a research institute is sometimes gets confused as one. And then we have a more optimization arm, we really live in trying to operationalize technology that's already out there that's already in existence. Get it get you know, new emerging technology from what's known as technical readiness level three out to technical readiness level eight and kind of bridge over that. And then the industry often refers to as that valley of death and so that's what we created that this environment so that again industry without a huge capital outlie or a gamble, help them de risk the process of exploring technology and then validating it. And then just a little bit to that one, I think you did a really good job explaining it, you know, from outside of things just really quickly, you know, kind of our goal is to or CMAs goes to operate as a non biased third party technical organization. And then we have to help manufacturers turn advanced machine capabilities into actual production successes. And so you know we're focused on that through process validation optimization technology transitions and helping bridge those gaps between what are the machines capable of and what are our customers actually need on the shop floor. And back to Jason's point where we're not chasing those IP or our moonshot efforts, you know, we're focused on existing technologies and how do we implement them as quickly as possible to to support our customers. And then I've heard a lot of these ideas before but big themes from both what both of you guys just said is that idea of you know taking existing existing technology and helping customers figure out how to implement it and not just here's a PowerPoint but here's how to implement it successfully and actually deploy it in a way that will help them. That's that's clearly that's you know the main ideas, how do you how do you help these companies implement these new technologies or technologies that are readily available and implement implement them into their operation. One thing you just said that I think it's really important. We don't engage in just you know creating a report or an update of you know here we explored this technology for you. Here's this PowerPoint is you were saying earlier. And our focus in our mission is to really see it all the way through. Sometimes when you do this type of effort into a in a controlled environment like what we've created. There's some translation problems once it actually gets embedded into those industrial partner sites. So what's really important to us because of our history and and what we've been trying to accomplish as an institution of a whole is a follow it all the way through and close that loop. So we want to make sure that we're going into these facilities that trust us in helping them deploy this technology. We help make sure that the results we see in a controlled environment translates out in a production environment help them define you know the processes and parameters around that. Because we do work force training we can also help them with training initiatives so that their staff can adopt this new technology internally and know how to interface with it. So it's a it's a complete value proposition that we try to deliver not just you know here's your research good luck and you know best to you. And that does kind of get to that the question I was going to ask asked next is kind of how do we go about this you know what are some of the ways that we come alongside of a company and help them improve their process you know what what types of services are re offering them and what does that look like. Taking what Jason framed is the problem and kind of getting specific about it. My background I came out of the technology industry I came out of the software industry and what the CMA does is it provides essentially a full stack solution and you have to look at any implementation of a piece of technology into a manufacturing system or some sort of change. Software advanced technology AI all the things that you sort of hear about anytime you introduce something into that ecosystem there's associated set of changes in the rest of the ecosystem to include potentially workforce up skill new workforce on boarding operators for new pieces of equipment etc. So what we try to do is approach it as a full stack problem the same way you wouldn't in the software industry if you look at a software solution you would bring a full stack solution at any time you're going to completely change or deploy a new piece of technology manufacturing works very similarly. So the CMA offers support for artificial intelligence machine learning advanced analytics data. Precision machine optimization additive manufacturing optimization metrology non destructive testing all the sort of standard things you would think about in a manufacturing ecosystem. But as Jason mentioned when we come alongside a partner and we go on this path with them we're looking to help them navigate that entire change cycle from a full stack perspective so we want to deploy new additive manufacturing technology great. Let's look at the way that's going to change processes let's look at what the workforce demands are going to be look at what the data design requirements are going to be and let's find some solutions that are deployable in your current environment sort of meet you where you are and then go along with you to where you want to go but using that that full umbrella capabilities. That's a cool way to describe that and you keep moving your hands in a circle because you know at all all the things connect clearly I want to take a side a side detour real quick I know we use the word optimization a lot when talking about the center for manufacturing advancement. And Jason I've heard you talk a little bit about this but I mean any of you guys can can touch on this what does what does optimization mean I speak from from my side of things you know I think. Optimization depending on the context in which you're applying it so you know Josh mentioned several key areas that we focus on here the CMA from operational excellence to precision machining to metrology to to indeed all of these these fields. For me you know my role over the engineering activities that take place specifically on the subtractive metrology and additive side of the house optimization comes in the form of reducing friction between teams shorter setups fewer adjustments at the machine tool fewer surprises more just process stability in general just creating an overall smoother process where everything at the end of the day is much more predictive predictable. It means you know it's a rating waste and not you know from just a standpoint of you know materials but also the time and uncertainty that's associated with those processes. I would like to add to Jeremiah's and I come at this from a career manufacturing manufacturing engineering specifically and every manufacturer knows that. They're going to be there's going to be competition and there's always a need for continuous improvement and that will never go away and that at different points if no matter what you believe you're good in there is always this rotation of are my people. And at the best they can be in terms of safety quality and delivery and training is my process at the best it can be is it evolving with the new technology. And from an optimization perspective where I believe we really do three things well is we convene people we collaborate and we deploy technologies and a focus in areas where we can help the workforce. We can help introduce the technologies that if you know that hey I I'm a I'm a machining company and I'm thinking about five access machine but I don't really know what that is. We're a great form for that as an example come see us we have a machine we can help you migrate to that technology our understanding better. Optimization comes in many form but I think it's just continually looking at where you are in your process with your people where you are with your technology and ask the question is there a better way to do this to keep me competitive. I think that's a strong way of putting it an excellent way of putting it you know like I said you've heard me talk a lot about optimization through past podcasts and other efforts but. Optimization is a unique and it's it's going to be different for each organization and what their needs are and. You know typically it's it's the one of the challenges when you get into a project is. You know everybody wants it they want more they want it better they want it faster they want a cheaper you know and the reality of it is when you engage in an optimization project. So the definition of optimization is how do you how do you find the right balance of achieving as much as you possibly can out across all those once it needs. Because the truth of matter is you're not going to maximize across the board in all those areas because there's always a bit of give and take and there's always a bit of compromise. So you know sometimes you'll go into an account and somebody wants you know do no choice. To a tool changes over an eight hour shift and then you go to the next account they want parts off as fast as they possibly can and you know so it's it's going to vary dramatically and try trying to find how you can get that. That 80 20 you know how do we get you 80% of what you want the and that's that's optimized so. Stay with us will be right back. Need a place to bring people together the IALR conference center in Danville has modern and flexible spaces great food and a team that takes care of the details. Bigger small we make your event run smoothly plan your next event at IALR dot org forward slash conference. That's a good point Jason. You know for for us you know I think at the end of the day it's always about creating a better process but but better is a relative term depending on the customer that that you're talking to everybody needs something different. So you know you have somebody may need a faster tool path or somebody may need that tool to last you know twice as long at the end of the day so for us it's you know it's our responsibility to investigate their needs and instead of reinventing the wheel for them is just about turning the wheel faster for them. That sounds like that could go on a postcard. We'll keep that one so you guys have talked a lot about you know obviously with as you just said with optimization you're taking the customer's goal and then optimizing the process based on what they want to accomplish that can look different in every scenario. And you've also talked about this is not theoretical research that you all are involved in in the CMA it's very much how do we put this technology or this process or this adjustment in action to make a difference. So kind of how do those two things go together and what does that look like as you're working with the customer or partner client what does that look like there's a lot of listening that goes on. You know you go to the place. You walk their floor you learn their problems you listen and you do all of that in your mind asking very intentional thoughtful questions to try to understand if they realize where their pinch points are. You bring that information back you put together ideas of what you've seen you go back to that that partner that customer that client and you share with them what you think you learned and then put them in a position to reflect and understand through your descriptions of how we can convene and collaborate and share improvements tangible improvements. And try and put some value around that be it be it time be it improvement quality or delivery add to that john that process john described is really accurate based on my experience to in the work as well. What's unique when we do this is we're giving the client or the customer permission to generally say something they already knew they needed to say or wanted to say or to hear each other say things that perhaps they've not had time space. The opportunity to tell each other. Rarely do we find this sort of miracle solution through this process. But where the solution is generally found and most effectively is when the customer or the team at a customer client site actually start to talk and listen to each other because they've had a moment of space and time to reflect generally they already know the solution to the problem they're looking for perhaps they need some help de risking or defining it. But that's a very accurate description john gave gave we do this quite often together but watching that discovery where the client gets to to hear themselves. To ride their own solution and then we're able to kind of help from frame it that is that is where I think the sort of magic happens as it were for the CMA. And I mean this applies to the institute for advanced learning and research as a whole but also to the CMA you know partnerships are a giant part of that. So here well Josh you got partnerships in your title so we'll let you answer this question. We do very little by ourselves at the institute there are so many different kinds of partners we work with whether that be. You know local school divisions local governments whether that be private companies whether that be. I mean obviously now we're working with federal partners and we'll get to that as well. I guess the different roles that organizations can play with the CMA obviously you know you guys have talked about clients and customers but what are what are the other types of partnerships that make this successful. The easiest way to define them we have obviously frankly we considered our customers are clients to also be partners first and foremost that's the first most important kind. Folks that come to us that want to go on a journey with us need our help. That's those are our prime partners. In order to do that and to answer your technology partners we have folks across the industry that either have derived a solution machine tool and Jeremiah can talk about this for quite some time from and from a technology partner standpoint. They've developed a solution some sort of technology or capability that we can bring to folks that are seeking our support. We have strategic partners they may be educational they may be government. And then we we have education you know so strategic to be industry government and then you have our technology partners and then you have folks that have come to us looking for a solution. The answer to your question really is that all of those categories actually cross pollinate. So it is not uncommon to engage with one of those types of partners and discover that there's a solution for one of the other types of partners or other partners. So does it within the CMA or to engage with a customer or a client that's looking for a specific type of support and then derive some sort of insight that helps some other customer client or partner. So john's mentioning of convening that is the that is sort of a key attribute of the CMA and a VLR is the ability to sort of combine ideas and knowledge and relationships and then guide that to some sort of outcome. So it's a little bit simpler you know so in my mind you know we have manufacturers and we have technology partners and so you know the manufacturers that that's industry that that's our customer. The folks that are bringing real world problems to our doorstep and it's our responsibility to then step in and be that third party convener that that just just mentioned and and and stitch all of these folks together. And you know where we shine is we have the ability to create what I would call a neutral space where all of us can collaborate without a competitive agenda and then allow each person to focus on their unique strengths to to help us find a resolution to whatever that particular customer's problem is. So the partnership thing though is important real quick Caleb I just want to add one other thing both Josh and Jeremiah framed it well but it you know it's. At the end of the day the institute doesn't produce anything we don't make a product per se we don't have anything to sell in that traditional sense. So those relationships those partnerships are really really vital to us being able to provide opportunity and provide solutions. So I think you know it's important and we value highly highly value our partnerships and our relationships. Because they are so instrumental in you know our success and you know their success is our success kind of mentality so you know I like you know Josh said something you know about how many ways there's cross pollination so there's a lot of situations where we're playing matchmaker quite honestly. Between someone who's a really good trusted partner that has great technology on the technology side and industry partner that's partnering with us and trusting us to come in their facility and and express their their pain points or whether it's even educational or what have you. So relationships are also important too because when you're like you know I said earlier about living in that valley of death and trying to be a bridge across that you know we also have to have partnerships on that research side that institutional side that's working on those moonshot efforts because the goal is those moonshots are to eventually be the next generation of emerging technology so. So really make sure we're keeping our finger on the pulse over there and maintaining those relationships and then helping those partners gain an audience at the industrial side of things and say hey look at this really cool thing that just came out that we think could really have impact because we've gotten to know your business we've gotten to know some of your pain points. So I just you know I kind of just wanted to express because our lifeblood is you know really maintaining those relationships taking care of those relationships bringing value to all the interactions that we engage in and that's how we maintain our relevance very much so we saw our product is our reputation so. Is that those relationships are vital to us yeah no absolutely you know on the topic of partners we've been working with the federal government and particularly no we have several several programs that are you know involved with the federal government Jason do you want to give the quick 30 second rundown for each of ATDM. So we in naysam since we have all the acronyms i'll just let you let you cook 30 seconds on each of those currently on campus we support three federal programs two of them are around workforce training and workforce development and one of them is around the optimization or modernization. The first one I'll talk about is the accelerated training and defense manufacturing program otherwise known as ATDM this is our federally funded program that does workforce skills training we do it in a very accelerated format thus the name we train 24 hours a day five days a week across three shifts in that program to help address the national crisis of a skills gap a work first. A workforce a workforce shortage and that is a what I'll call more public or forward facing program and workforce training we have a second workforce training program that we do that's known as the Naval Air School for additive manufacturing we refer to it as naysam and that is a really intense short sprint training program for active duty military to come in and really learn technologies emerging technologies around. Additive manufacturing and how they can then implement it out into whatever situation they're deployed in in their military life span and then the third program is what's known as the additive manufacturing center of excellence. That particular program is taking traditionally cast and forge components that have existed for years and shipbuilding and submarine manufacturing and converting them into additive manufacturing technologies and we participate in that program that is a consortium with five other partners we did a I participated in a previous podcast with John Harrison and. I think that was around October so if you're going back to look it's in the October range so yeah that's thank you for that that quick rundown and like Jason said I think we've talked about all of these things at different points on the show or if you keep up with us on any other you know social media or our news articles or anything like that. But I'm curious how having all of that together and obviously Jason as you said it's you know the AMC OE is within this the CMA building is you all are supporting that directly and then we have these two workforce training programs you know one we're we're having by next year it's going to be a thousand students a year coming through the other one more more small scale training active duty military. But how does having all of that together on this campus kind of boost the work that you all do and boost the effectiveness of the CMA. I think Josh would be fantastic at answering that. I made a point about that manufacturing ecosystem fundamentally our relationship with the federal government and the Navy in particular is around providing support for that full stack problem. So and we're in a unique place we have the privilege of being able to do it from a number of different angles here at ILR and within the CMA. The C.O.E is a technology deployment problem but it is also an acquisition problem the Navy would like to acquire components that are additively manufactured they must help energize the supplier place to supplier base to do that by providing technical support and engagement. As that grows so does the requirement for additive manufacturing technicians where were a few places in the country that produces additive manufacturing technicians. So that those three federal programs that Jason described predominantly Navy programs are an excellent example of what I was talking about earlier with that sort of full stack ecosystem view of technology deployment and manufacturing. At the end of the day. It's an interesting thing to point out we are I'm going to backtrack a little bit but it matters to me and Jason's heard me do this before we are not the center for advanced manufacturing we are the center for manufacturing advancement. So we are the center for research it's the study manufacturing advancement is finding a way to do more manufacturing or do it cheaper or do it better or do it faster or preferably all four of those things. So what we do with the Navy on top of the hill I refer to as the hill because the institutes sits on a hill. So we do on the hill for the Navy is an excellent example of that supporting the additive manufacturing center of excellence is about technology deployment. It's about getting technology into the hands of suppliers so those suppliers can optimize and increase the production capacity for submarines and capital ships for the Navy, which is an national security concern. Additive or sorry accelerated training for defense manufacturing atm is about pouring fuel into the workforce to support that growth. And naysam is about taking what what used to be referred to as advanced manufacturing technologies but just advanced technology for battle damage repair and support in place again into the hands of so sailors and Marines and Airman and Coast Guardsman that then go out and engage with aircraft or requirements within their services. So on and so forth what we do is the CMA is that it's just those three Navy programs are very large very visible very important national security facing solutions that very much so mimic what we do at the CMA. So we've added industry 4.0 robotics artificial intelligence digital manufacturing it all ultimately is for the same goal. Now being able to do that for the Navy that the other benefit that derives for the CMA is we're doing those things those Navy programs to provide that full stack solution to Navy suppliers within the submarine and maritime industrial base. It's also given us the opportunity to build relationships engagements with several hundred companies across the country that have manufacturing requirements that want to make it better faster cheaper or preferably all three. So a lot of what the CMA does is engage with those defense suppliers outside of those three programs that Jason mentioned providing what the CMA does optimization support technology deployment support on digitization or digital efforts digital modernization. And then we have a new technology and DT the menu of things I talked about earlier the nuclear Navy we have some relationships with organizations that are suppliers or have a supplier network within the nuclear Navy trying to figure out how to make things better faster cheaper higher quality so on and so forth. So it's just a micro it's a very visible example of what we're doing for our industry partners. So you're saying the Navy is the case study of what the CMA does that's what you're saying. I think it's the other way around I think the Navy understood what inherently the CMA could offer or the Institute could offer full vote. And it allowed us the opportunity to do it at greater scale. And perhaps greater impact. Then we would have had otherwise had we just been working with regional or local industry now we are a national institution we engage with companies I think in almost all 50 state. We engage with international companies many of them are in the defense space some are not. But it gave us the opportunity to take what we're good at and really super charge it. And yes, the virtual cycle people see what we're doing for the Navy they come and ask us about it where get the opportunity to do more of it. And something to Caleb that I think is really important. You know we started with one program it was you know around workforce training and the value proposition of the Institute as a whole resonated with the Navy that that really developed these other efforts going on. We had a great reputation around training around workforce training and skilled labor. But then they really realized that there it was much deeper than that it wasn't just simply a training program. And that resonated with them when they came into our community. So when you really think of the Navy investment as Josh pointed out there's a thread that attaches you know across all three of those programs. And you know the validation of new technology the exploration of validation new technology happening in the COE. You have the actual manufacturing of technologies and products in the ATDM which is what those students will go out in the field and do once they're placed into the defense industrial base. And it's evidentably things break especially in the military you know in the environments that they're going to be in. So we have the nasam program that is that out in the field repair and address those immediate situations. So that technology thread attaches at different points along that lifecycle of a product or of a technology and we're supporting all three of those for Navy on this campus. So there's nothing that goes back to Caleb a question you said based on what Jason was describing that deploy. So based on what we do through AMC OE it really gives us that window into being at that very far edge in terms of technology adoption for ourselves. So we look out into the community into the region. We have had a chance to go through and and learn the hard lessons because we're doing it within our own building right so if a partner comes to us and says hey what's this AI stuff and how do I bring it into my factory. So we're already working through some of those hey what is this AI stuff and how do we do it in the AMC OE. So we've really got our own test bed if you will because we're really at a great position to do and try and stay on that front end. So we're better equipped to continue that flow into optimization from the AMC OE. It's very complimentary. That's really cool how all of these things fit together and it's one of those when I tell people where I work and I try to explain in one sentence what the institute does. I don't think there's a good one sentence answer because what you guys are talking about with all this manufacturing advancement stuff is one fifth of what we do. There's a lot of interconnected parts. That's pretty tough to do in elevator speech. It better be a really tall building if it's an elevator speech. I give them Josh seems email address. I'll start doing that. So we've talked around the I guess we've given the very high level how we come alongside of companies and Josh you kind of gave the very brief. I don't want to say menu but kind of the specific services we can provide. I want to do it again trying to keep it short but like one to one to two minutes about each of these efforts that we we can provide. So I have I have here written down process optimization and industrial efficiency. I think we've talked about that one enough. I don't think we need more details on that precision machining and additive post processing. So I want to explain in one minute how we can come alongside a company with that. I'll take that one. So we'll start off with the big question. What does that mean? So for us, you know, this is focused on helping manufacturers achieve predictable repeatable results in processes where precision is important. Whether that be a fully machined component at the end of the day or just you know what is the workflow of that component. And specifically you know for times back to the AMC or east out of things that also includes additive components and how does that flow through the manufacturing process. And so you know how does this help manufacturers at the end of the day. For us, this means you know we're optimizing the machining strategy itself, whether that be through work holding or the sequencing of the part or finishing strategies. So that the teams that are receiving this this product at the end of the day. And so I don't have to incur that trial and trial and error phase. And so speaking specifically on the additive side that adds a new degree of difficulty into the machining process. So our teams are prepared to help manufacturers overcome those initial barriers, which includes things like irregular stock conditions, organic geometries. And there's print layouts and strategies that are going to require very thoughtful of a data planning strategies. I definitely understood all of those words though. All right, so that kind of I mean that touched on precision machining and added post processing. I guess bigger picture and you already did cover some of this with additive manufacturing. But what other ways can we help companies with additive manufacturing. So from a additive manufacturing support role. You know for us it starts at the design for matter design for additive manufacturing step or D fam. Because ultimately at the end of the day printing does does not replace a finished component. Additive manufacturing replaces the foundry in most applications, especially with the work that that we do. We are trying to design a component and we're focused on the entire manufacturing life cycle of that particular part. So that is going to include choosing the optimal printing modality. So taking into consideration what is the final condition of this particular component. You know, do we need higher resolutions or do we need higher deposition rates based on the size and geometry of this particular component. And then more forward thinking when you start getting into the post processing steps. You know, we're going to start thinking about again that the work holding the data mean strategies and the material allowances that are offered by each print modality. So this this approach for us it reduces again that that trial and air phase and it preserves critical features and it makes the additive to machine workflow more predictable at the end of the day. What about metrology. Yeah metrology in general. What kind of services and how do we come alongside companies with that? Okay, so the metrology side of things this is kind of two components to depending on the manufacturer customer that we're speaking with. So it's either going to be, you know, dimensional metrology or quality and compliance side of the house. So ultimately for us this is utilizing measurement to verify processes and drive decisions. And ultimately, you know, the goal of this particular process is to help customers, you know, reduce defects, you know, receive components faster. And an arming customers with data to close the loop of everything that has happened within all of the the value add processes that we just spoke about to produce a compliant component. To add to that, Caleb, metrology is a great area where we have a trusted partner right long time relationship with metatoia both in our ATDM where students are training, but also in our AMC OE and a good example is, we're working on a project where an organization said, hey, can this be done on this type of machine, a C on meal, coordinate measure machine. And so we have the expertise and the equipment that's that the institute invested in to be able to do that kind of analysis. A lot of times when a manufacturer will set up and begin making things, they usually buy tooling and quality equipment specific to making that thing. And then they go to making that thing and they want to get really, really, really good at it and optimize everything, but then there will be a need for a new product or they may be a change over in people in that organization. And they need to expand and grow within that technology. And it's very hard to do while you're in the fire. And so we provide that outside third party again, agnostic third party because we're not trying to sell a new type of machine or a new type of measuring technique. And so they can come to us specifically and we're doing that currently in metrology for some organizations. Yeah, I think I think that's does a really good point, John. I mean, ultimately, you know, that's that's the same box that we're trying to play in here. So when we start talking about helping manufacturers, you know, ultimately in a day, reduce risk and accelerate deployment of these processes, especially focusing on subtractive additive and metrology. We're trying to de-risk things for those customers by giving them again that neutral location to serve as a test bed before they can commit before they commit a large amount of capital or a stop production to a specific process. What about automation and robotics integration? What does that, what does that look like? From a similar standpoint, we have an industry 4.0 lab here. And Jeremiah hit on it, capital investment, right? Before you go and buy, you can call in a lot of excellent robot organizations, you know, that sell you equipment, sell you a solution. But really what you would like to do, and I think, and I've got to give you the now, this is where everybody goes to best buy, right? You want to have phones, you're going to go to best buy and you're just going to walk them down the aisle, you're going to try on every pair of headphones to you, find yours. Okay. So you come to our industry 4.0 lab, we've got a great team here with Buchin Adam and they'll take you through the realm of the possible for industry 4.0. They will talk to you about what you do. You can see examples, you can see machines in action and begin building that knowledge base to help you then take that next step towards if you want to engage with an industry leader. And then you can see that you have a little more idea about that application. You're more educated in what are some pitfalls, what are some things to do, what to look for. We're not an integrator, right? So rather than, hey, I bought this robot, I'm going to call up CMA and get them to help me install. And then we'll just be able to do what we're going to do. And then we'll just be able to deploy technology. So could be custom algorithm development. Could be data maturity. Could be network maturity software maturity. Could be things like software defined factories, which is it's its own conversation for sure. And the integration of all those ideas, but if you modernize your production methods, or if you're going to make a thing in 2026, there's an extremely high likelihood that you're going to use some kind of data. But understanding that after we've solved all the problems of deploying the technology, we know we're going to run the line. The last pinch point was we need to know how to onboard X number and it's a large number X number of additive manufacturing technicians and X number of CNC technicians. And we need to know how to train them on the job. Will you help us develop a curriculum to do that and will you help train our trainers? And the answer was obviously we'd love to do that for you. And so that I like that example because it goes back to that sort of full circle concept. This is a company with some very high end capabilities, very high end technology, very good design, very good technology deployment from a software and AI standpoint. They've got it all. But at the end of the day to go to production test scale. They also needed someone to sit down with them and help them train their trainers to put operators next to those machines to make it a reality. But I like that example, but you can see all the things in the ecosystem in that one partner. That's a great example. And you know, we had for a long time, you know, again, that history of putting people in jobs, you know, when you're running a training program where you're trying to train a volume. And Josh mentioned earlier, we had one program that will achieve a thousand people per year. You really are, you have to a broad spectrum of skill sets that you have to touch on. But we all know that, you know, once you get into a particular company there, you know, there's a tremendous amount of lift on that side of it around specific processes, specific governance is culture, you know, all those other things. So that's why where the CMA really wants to engage our workforce efforts, you know, step off because now we're going to provide you a really skilled level set individual. Now you got a plug in OJT on the job training. And that's where the CMA takes over to help define, you know what that looks like and how that can look and really get it that that last leg of the race, you know, across that finish line. And it's a, it's a unique value proposition that we feel is critical. Also, again, not just optimizing processes because we talked a lot about that, but also optimizing how the workforce to engage with those processes and engage with the technology. So it's so, so specific case specific for a lot of companies that we just can't do it with a broad reach training program. We are basically out of time, but some main themes just to recap the CMA, you guys are very focused on kind of the whole manufacturing ecosystem and Josh used the word full stack like we're software. So, you know, the whole, the entire, the entire system we're focused on how do we optimize that and help companies improve whatever process they're looking to improve, whatever outcome they're looking to achieve, how do we help them get there. Focus on deployable technologies, not things that are relevant five years down the road, but what's deployable right now. And we're independent and brand agnostic, so we're not, you know, in Jason, I've heard you say this a hundred times, you know, we're not, we're not sales people. We don't have one company, you know, that we're working exclusively with. We're working looking at the best solution for the that particular company that particular outcome they're trying to achieve. So, I just think it's really cool to hear you guys kind of explain explain this vision that I know has evolved a lot in the last few years of kind of what what role we can play how we can help come alongside of manufacturers. We just went for an hour so that was pretty impressive work there. Is there anything else that anyone has to say. One other thing that you know you triggered a thought is you were you kind of summarizing everything and you know going back to Josh's full stack solution. It's it's really important to understand, you know, to understand that ecosystem. One of the things I'm very proud of with the team is, you know, we have come from varied backgrounds and I think that's hugely beneficial. Because I think sometimes you can get blinders on or you can get a very tiny point of view when you have when you identify a pinch point and put all this energy into it. And then just end up moving bottlenecks downstream and one of the things that I'm really proud of the team, the way they engage in that holistic viewpoint, you know, doing that walk through doing a lot of listening, doing that assessment mapping. And then you make sure that you know if we come in and we solve this problem, it just doesn't move a couple of hours over and and create a bottleneck down down the way or down the line. So, you know that that environmental scan across is, you know, and having those touch points and multiple areas. So again, I just want to emphasize and stress that's why, you know, it's not go to our lab, do our research and give you a report. That's why we have to come into your factory and follow it through. That's why we want to do the training component. That's why we want to sit and define what the SOPs look like, what the processes look like. That's why we want to engage with you around lean initiatives and five initiatives around that solution as well. I just want to, you know, really, you know, kind of communicate that we're not just putting this out there as an all a cart menu. They're all interconnected for a reason and for a purpose so that we're not just shifting bottlenecks and problems around within a facility. Yeah, that's not all a cart. We'll add that to the postcard like that. Well, thank you guys. We really appreciate it. At IELR, we're training people for career supporting the construction and maintenance of ships and submarines. ATDM or accelerated training in the fifth manufacturing gets students ready for defense manufacturing careers in just 16 weeks. Skills like machining, welding, added to manufacturing, non-destructive testing and metrology. The best part? Most graduates laying great jobs right away. If you want a fast track to a career with impact, check out ATDM.org. (upbeat music)