Full-Circle Besties: From Nickelodeon to 'Just Keke' with Tayla Parx

my guest today is a hit maker a visionary and one of my oldest friends we've been tight since we were kids we came up on true jackson vp together and now she's a grammy nominated songwriter for the biggest artists in the world from ariana grande to janelle monae and panic at the disco and she just executive produced my album just kiki i'm talking about the one and only taylor parks baby this is kiki palmer no matter what we're doing in the car just chilling pop on amazon music sit back and listen life love sex science covering it all especially the bad cause money always involved no matter what it is we gonna make it make sense nothing else to do but kick it with the homies and kids so grab you a drink and a snack you enjoy and get into the vibe that only you know it's your face this is kiki baby this is kiki palmer before the holiday rush kicks in i'm partnering with airbnb to help you plan that perfect autumn escape from dreamy mountain retreats to spacious homes perfect for gathering with friends and family airbnb has amazing spaces for every kind of getaway now let's get into it taylor taylor parks in the house yo it's so funny because you were just talking about like it is very weird that we're here in this you know hosting you know guest show type thing because damn girl i've known you for 22 years yeah i literally came into the building was like oh oh man we're out here we're in altadena and pomona no more oh my gosh yes altadena 626 pasadena we love you and pomona 909 was good oh my gosh i remember those drives when we'd be going out there to have the cookouts y'all coming over there larry cooking yes i was going over there damon theresa cooking yeah yeah it is so amazing to see how far we've come sometimes i feel like i have to pinch myself because wow yeah and it's not into these moments where you get with somebody who's literally been with you through all of them they're just like oh this is crazy it is so crazy we're about to get into all that but first i got to get into your pre-show pull-up questions because i'm trying to see where your headspace is at okay so today i'm giving country with a side of which is you all day every day texas girly but then also because you live in nashville now which was so crazy to me i mean you live in a lot of places but nashville is like you really started to make it your main home home so that country is definitely coming through absolutely today's mood in one word as always silly what did you listen to on the ride here olivia dean yes so good and then who's this nice to each other oh that's the name of the song yeah so olivia dean i'm actually not familiar with her really really dope killing it check out the project well each project what type of genre is it i would say that it's like um it's r&b it's very like sometimes she has like up-tempo moments but i feel like it's more like lo-fi r&b vibes lo-fi r&b the names in the genre always get me now we're in the lo-fi exactly i gotta figure out what that means okay one thing that instantly makes you laugh my goats yeah because i i often brag about the fact that you have like a farm you know like i often brag i'm like yeah my best friend she has a farm in nashville she like grows her own stuff she has eggs she has a whole deal so like you have goats please tell us everything that you have i have goats chickens ducks um sheep pigs and then dogs and some barn cats and it's so crazy because i remember when this started to begin at your at your other house in la where you were just getting into the plant mom thing you would plant you was growing everything growing everything and i was okay she's really into this nature like and you always have been into nature we both love being outside but you really love learning about the nature type of stuff so the fact that you have a farm now i feel like it is the perfect evolution of taylor when we was kids it makes a lot of sense it makes a lot of sense okay and then last screenshot on your phone and do not cheat because if you were cussing somebody out that's fine tell us who it was well my last screenshot was me basically telling uh the head of a label i was like i don't i don't do more than three seconds i don't do more than three seconds i don't do more than three sessions back to back with strangers i don't know what's going on like if we do like if we like each other then we can talk about getting more on the books but like doing three and five days and then i'm trapped that is so first of all i live for the virgo i live for the advocacy i live for you telling the label man how you doing i'm like please i'm like look this is what i want to do on i just don't want to be devastated for five days just in case we don't like vibe creatively i really do want to get into that with you because i think i've seen your journey in the industry from acting music i mean everything you do we're both multi-hyphenates but i remember early on in the music industry you going to the studio real lay working you teaching yourself how to engineer teach yourself how to produce and then now you're at this place where you can advocate and say you know look this is how i run things but what was it like getting there you know because i don't think people realize how it really is impressive to me because you really did so much of it on your own yeah i think i mean you know like growing up look we didn't have family in the entertainment industry it wasn't like oh let me just call up my cousin and he's gonna get you to this thing it was literally us deciding to move here and then whatever connections you make from there that's that's what you make and and we'll see what you make of it but all of a sudden it was just like you know it would be like a mutual friend like me and leon meeting each other oh my gosh yeah yeah you literally told me you were like i have somebody that you're gonna love him and before i was even on uh victorious even a little bit it was like we hadn't just known each other because you you told me that i would always love him so it's so interesting because then we end up learning how to like engineer and do all the stuff over i chat remember that was the whole thing i remember you be at the house seeing you having me redo oh yeah yeah yeah i forgot we remade that song and you because you knew how to do the stuff and you were so even that early on because i remember it'll be you it would be my sean it would be tori kelly every other day i feel like you were like going to the house working with them and i mean we're all in the house and i'm like i'm gonna go to the house all in the i.e all in i.e i literally remember that i'm like what you're doing today tell you like i'm just going there we're gonna produce a track blah blah blah yeah and that was like the early early early but then you moved closer to the city and i mean you would be in the studio with babyface um you and leon would be in the studio babyface you were like what 18 and it's so cool also to see all the different ways that you've moved through music because your first love like most of us r&b so but you've dominated so many different i mean when i think about high hopes with panic at the disco right yeah and then i think about we're talking about uh pop fifth harmony ariana grande what was your journey like with figuring out that you don't have to stay in one lane as a writer because i remember that being a big thing for you like uh-uh don't box me i want to do music with whoever in any in anybody after a while i started to understand oh these people want me to be only this and it first started off with just because that's just the assumption that they're making of me you know i'm black i'm from texas i'm from new york i'm from new york i'm from texas you know i'm walking in a room with a little swoop swoop you know what i'm saying i'm chilling with it you know what i'm saying but so they immediately were like oh this is what you do but then i started to realize oh even down to the simple like just history of understanding why certain like where rhythm and blues radio comes from and even if it was a song covered by a black artist it was said that it was a completely different genre and i felt like a lot of that came from because the different money in both worlds it's like no you as a black person can't do one of the highest grossing like genres which it could be country it could be pop it could be anything and now we're at the time in my career and in music period where pop can be anything uh billboard charts are so diverse you didn't have like you know as many rap artists on the billboard hop 100 or as many r&b in the billboard hop 100 as you do now and so back in the day it really was just like oh no y'all are trying to y'all trying to keep me broke like y'all trying to say if i only do this only certain type of music and i only can relate to this type of thing meanwhile they do all kinds of type of music you know what i'm saying so i was just like you know what that's not for me and then the other side of it is i like to always be a student like if i'm writing with the same genre i'm usually writing with the same people then and that means the same producers and all those other things and saying hey i'm going to do jazz this year gives me an opportunity to collaborate with different kinds of people and to be just always learning and learning and learning and learning and learning and learning and learning and it's so interesting what you said because honestly pop music really is just popular music and it could be any genre we see it all the time where it's like oh this is a hit and it's hip-hop or this is r&b whatever but i am curious of your opinion of why does it seem like sometimes r&b is struggling in that regard like why is the money not being put into it but then we can have a situation like with ariana grande who definitely especially early on was doing straight up r&b and it was deemed as pop or it was not you know totally put in that same category that somebody maybe like summer walker's album would be put in what is that about i think it's just different industries within one which is so strange even the way that you do your splits in pop and r&b and hip-hop are very different you know like there is a such thing as a pop split which is weird um what is it it's basically just saying like you know kind of what they do in sweden everybody splits everything even evenly even if you were snoring in the back of the room you get it and that's the problem i went we could do a little something but uh no if you snoring in the back unless it's giving you know oh damn he's snoring in the key of what's gonna be the song like i don't know i'll even i'll even give you a benefit of the doubt you know what i'm saying but but it works just differently. And I do think that that has been used to control black creatives. I do think that it's been used to leave them always looking for some advance or something so you can never be fully in control of your career. Oh my gosh. So when you look at somebody like Beyonce, for instance, and the statement that we're assuming she's subtly making with Cowboy Carter, what do you think that says to the industry and does it help? The reason why I ask is because at the end of the day, she's Beyonce. So is that something that benefits others or is it just like Beyonce yet again showing us she's great, you know? Well, I mean, I do think I will say that anybody who is going against the grain is making it better for everybody else. Like I'm in the business personally of creating some new normals. And so whether or not you believe it's a country album or not, it's the fact that some other black woman looking at that, whether they're 10 years old, you know what I'm saying? Or somebody who's literally young as hell right now who doesn't even have anybody to look up to in that type of way. Yeah. We're, it's supposed to be a part of kind of just molding what somebody else could see as the new normal one day. Um, and so I'm like, okay, I really Beyonce for, for doing that. And for, you know, of course it's going to be a little bit different because yes, you're Beyonce, but just seeing how hard it was for even Beyonce to get there, should show you how hard it is to be accepted into those different communities as a black creator. Ah, you know, there's been a lot of talk around about superstars. We don't have superstars anymore. And you know, it was so cool. You and I were having a conversation when we were hanging out. I don't know if we were working on just Kiki or just we were kicking it and you were just saying how superstars exist differently in every era. Like, you know, now we're, you know, when, when we're thinking about when Rihanna became a superstar, it was like, everybody has to be real. No more. Everybody's authentic. You know, and the brutal Mars, when he initially first popped, it was about the record. We just need to, you know, I was really loving when you were breaking all that down. And so this question is twofold. The first part is what kind of superstars do you think we're missing? And then two, are we just not making superstars anymore because artists aren't giving up as much control? Very good question. I feel like, yeah, like there's a few, a few answers to that. First of all, are there not enough superstars because they're not giving up enough control? I wouldn't say that, but I do think that back in the day, it used to be like, I'm the radio man, you see, and I'm going to tell you what you like. I'm going to tell you what you like. And this is what we're going to spend the big bucks on. Like that type of thing. You know what I'm saying? So when you can do that, it's like, of course this person is going to be the superstar because all of it's concentrated. You can concentrate. Like that's, it starts to become a numbers game at that point, but then it's like, exactly. We're going to tell the people what they like, boom, boom, boom. They're not going to have an option. I don't think there's enough concentration of eyeballs on one person for that to happen again. Like we're, we're already done with kind of the age of just blinding superstardom, like, um, like Michael Jackson. And then I would say like, the next thing would be a Taylor Swift. I don't know if we'll have another Taylor Swift. We have 10 or 20 years to find that out. If somebody is going to be so massive and I'm not to, that's not to say that we don't have stars, right? We'll always have stars. But, and I do think that this might be a good thing that maybe it's not just five mega stars, but there's, you know, 30 or 40 stars doing their thing and having substantial brands. Maybe that's what we were always fighting towards guys. I think that that's where we're headed. Exactly. Um, with that second part of the, the question for sure, for sure. Yeah. And then what would you define, like, what is the personality of our superstars of today? Um, I would say authentic, like, and that's really hard to be in this day and age. It really is because you know that there's going to be millions, maybe billions judging you, right? I think in this day and age, like it's really hard to be real. And even if you are being real, how do you let the people know that you're being real with all these other things? It always ends up. Exactly. And then it's like, they don't trust you. We're super meta. Everybody's acting at themselves, acting at themselves, watching you and saying, I'm acting as myself. Like when does it end? And I'm doing it too. You know, like we, everybody does, everybody does because we grew up in the social media age. Like, you know, maybe if we didn't have to think about it. Remember when you introduced me to MySpace? Yes. We was on being bad. I was like, there's this place on the internet where kids are coding and we could talk to strangers. Come on. Yes. Because sometimes we're so Taylor, I was homeschooled. When we moved to California, my parents put me in homeschooling, but Taylor's parents let her perform and still go to normal school. And so she would find out about the things that were actually happening in real life. And I would be like finding out from her. So she was like, yo, there's this thing called MySpace. She was like, I think we should check it out. We got to just lie about our age a little bit. Cause we were like 12 and you're not, you weren't allowed to be on unless you're 18. When I tell you, she changed my life with MySpace. We created whole communities. Yeah, we did. Like we had, like boyfriend brothers. Yep. Yes. Literally. I was like, I'm dating this guy at my school, at my regular school. He got a brother. You down? Like, what are we doing? We used to literally be like, let's go to the, to the church and hang out with the kids. Then we could go see our boyfriends because our parents will let us, you know, hang out with them. And why were we using church? Cause they love that church hangout. Exactly. Honestly, we had to do what we had to do. And we love praising God. Okay. We like, we love them and we're here with our men as well. Okay. Well now this makes me go back to the story of when we first met at American juniors, but I want to go before our meeting and how you even did American juniors. Like I know that I know this story, but like I, everybody else doesn't know the story and we need to go back and relive that. So obviously you always had an incredible voice, but when did Teresa, your mom decide to really, you know, harness in on it? When I was in Texas, um, back in Dallas, Debbie Allen had a, like a dance school that was there in Dallas. And I used to have two left feet and, you know, this, because this is how we ended up meeting actually. So, um, I was, I just started to go with, you know, Debbie on dance Academy. And one day she ends up showing up. She's like, okay, I need somebody who could sing. Right. And people knew me for the singing kid. They definitely wouldn't be in like, she's the dancer, you know what I'm saying? But so she came to school one day, um, to the dance school and was just like, I need a singer, but when, boom, I ended up singing for her. And then she used, she hit me with that old Debbie Allen. She's like, you can sing, but can you dance? You can dance, but can you act? Are you a multi book? Like she hit me with that. Um, oh my God, I'm on the floor. It was giving fame, you know, it was giving fame. Um, and so, you know, she finally ends up meeting my parents and convincing them to like, like, let me come out for certain summers, like for a summer camp, um, in LA or something like that. Um, and so that was kind of my introduction to, whoa, there's other things here. I can do acting plus singing. And at the same time, there's these musicals and all of that stuff. Yeah. Um, and then the first audition that I ended up leaving some anywhere to was American Juniors. Um, and American Juniors, it was just like, I mean, you know, So American Idol, for those who maybe don't know, American Idol is the parent show to American Juniors. They did American Idol, but there was an age where you had to start and we were way too young. So then they did American Juniors and it was as young as six, seven. I mean, I think maybe six or seven was the youngest. You and I were about nine. Um, and she was from Dallas. I was from Chicago and we both got there. We got the golden ticket to California. And I remember we were working, they had, they were doing, it was definitely like a fame school there. They were like, at 10 AM, you do vocal lessons. At 12 PM, you do dance. We're like, we're nine. Literally. But then we were both working on the dance together and our moms kind of got together and she was like, yo, you know, uh, Teresa was like, your daughter want to go over the dance with my daughter. You think they, you know, collaborate, vibe out. And so we, we became instantly best friends. Like, I don't even know if I, I guess I knew the word best friend before then, but it was just so innate for us to be like, this is my girl. We were being bad, like literally splashing around each other in the water. I'm supposed to be getting ready for a thing. I'm rubbing off my, uh, competition number and stuff. Cause I'm over here dangling in a jacuzzi. What are we doing? I'm professional. We had a ball. We did our thing in the competition. We went back home, you know, there was talk of wild cards. Ultimately we weren't going back to the show, but our parents stayed in touch and my mom and your mom. Both were thinking about, which it sounds so crazy, but it's so common. The whole packing up where you are and going to California for your child to do a dream. I feel like we know not this fake ass Sharon boys. What is this? You fake. That's not her. It was thousands of kids that we knew that did this same exact thing, which also made it scary because it's like you are one of thousands of kids that are doing this. Yeah. Um, but my mom and her mom were like, well, Hey, if you go, uh, you know, we'll go and we can be each other's family. Um, and so we moved, we both moved to California. Y'all moved to Pomona. We was in Austin, so we were very pretty, pretty close to each other and we grew up as each other's family. Absolutely. And it was just so crazy when I think about it. I will never forget when, um, you end up doing a little Inez and hairspray, a rare transition from acting and doing all these acting audition. Cause I was surrounded by a bunch of acting kids or whatever I didn't. And then eventually it was like, okay, I started to meet them on Sean's and the Leon's and stuff like, oh, well we do, we musicians. I was like, okay. But one day I just was like, oh, so I can do acting, but I can do acting behind the scenes. And there's also this music thing that I can do behind the scenes and I can be on camera or off camera if I want to, or on the record and off the record when I want to. And that changed my whole life after like years of being like, okay, maybe I'll do like the acting thing, but something about it just wasn't the thing for me. I wasn't as passionate about that as I was. I would be eventually with the music, but it's so interesting because we end up still I mean, I think we all go through ways with that kind of thing, but we were always meant to be multi-hyphenates. And I think growing up, especially in the time we did, everybody made us choose or wanted to make us choose. And honestly, you just end up choosing what's coming your way mostly, right? If the gig's not there to get you, then I'm doing this now. Exactly. Exactly. So over time, I think we were able to actually spread our wings and realize that, hey, I can actually do multiple things in this business. I will never forget the fun we had on True Jackson VP. Okay. That was so much fun working on that show together. What do you remember when you think back on that time? Because I remember two things. I remember us having fun. It was the time of our lives. But then I also remember us having some of the most intimate conversations about how much pressure that we felt. Yeah. Because we were the ones in our family. Like, we were—they sacrificed a lot for us to be successful, whatever that meant. And it just—it was—I remember I could never express that with anybody else other than you. Yeah. Because, like, and I think a lot of, like, our mutual friends and stuff like that, it was like, they were friends, but they were more competition than they were friends. And so that's a really hard thing to balance when you're a kid. It was a miracle. You're balancing, you know, we're all going to CityWalk and stuff like that. Everybody's talking about their job that they just booked last week. Or we were at the—we were all at the same audition, and I'm auditioning for something with—like, that's a very rare thing. I remember us going to Universal Studios and Tyler James pulling out his black card. It was crazy. I was like— I was like, God damn. I guess that's network TV money. Exactly. Exactly. And it's like, what do we know about a black card, though? Like, it's all so strange. Yes. But I do think that that's a lot to process for kids, especially when you're not—but I was so lucky because me and you had this genuine, genuine friendship that was like, girl, regardless of whether we was, you know, working at Wendy's or doing this thing, we would still be this. And we were able to still, like, support each other. So I definitely think having some of those really, really hard times. Really hard conversations together. I don't know how I would have made it through this industry, honestly, without having somebody that's real. I mean, I still count the same best friends as the ones that I've had since all those times ago. I couldn't agree with you more. I mean, you're such a critical part of my life and my evolution of who I am as a person and a professional entertainer. I'll never forget when me and you got into that big fight and I ended up riding Rainbow on So Uncool. Still my song. It's still my song. Guys. Guys, the song. The song is way too dramatic. Literally, like, I tried to do this, like, Justin Timberlake breakdown in it so it goes from one vibe to another vibe. And literally, I'm singing, A rainbow turned to black and white. Every color disappears when you are not here. Why was I that deep? Because we was loving you, Justin. No, because Taylor would be coming over. Every time, we always talk about it's the Virgo of September and the Virgo of August thing. Yeah. Whenever Taylor would come over and we would hang out, she would be so chill. Like, she would be, she never, like, acted excited because she always kept it inside. And I would be like, Taylor, Taylor, Taylor. And I was like, I'm tired of every time that you come over. You're not happy to see me. And I would be like, I am. I'm so excited when I get into the car. She's like, you got me out here looking stupid. And I'm like, I'm so excited inside that I literally just shut down. I'm just like, ah. Like, it just completely, I'm overwhelmed and overstimulated. But you know what? The other thing that I did learn so much about our friendship because, you know, the August, September Virgo thing, but also the way that our parents raised us was so different. Oh, my God. To go to your house and see so much love and so much compassion and seeing that outwardly versus my house was kind of like, don't show your emotions, your gold, your this, your this, don't cry, don't do all of these other things. And our friendship really was like, wow, I can be open and I can be honest and vulnerable. And you were one of the few people that I was able to do that with. And I learned how to do that. And I truly do think that outside of the acting background, like, learning that skill to be able to be like, wow, I'm learning to open. I'm learning to open up is the part of what transitioned that songwriting in the first place. Because I was like, wow, I have somebody in my life who is telling me, you don't have to hide it all. Like, and if you can imagine, you know, 10-year-old Kiki, you don't have to keep it all inside. Tell me what's going on. You know? You know, that was a real, real help. And it's always so funny just thinking back on it. You would be like, I'm tired of this. I'm tired of this. You're going to show me some love. I still have that prompt to this day. We used to literally be like, yeah, if I hit you with the love ya instead of the I love you. Oh, my gosh. Can we please talk about text language? By the way, I just heard that texting is now seen as typewriting to these damn Gen Alphas. What? Yeah, girl. What do they be doing? Voice memos? They voice memos. They calling. They feel like this is. No, they're back to the calling. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. Feet kicked up in the bed. I can't believe it. They're like, my little hands can't take it. Yeah, they're like, oh, texting, please. I didn't know that. Back in the day, we had codes. Yeah. I could send. I could send emotion through text. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, if you called me, I was shocked. It's like, what's going on? Why would you be ringing my line? Why would you leave a message? Why would you not? Like, our generation is very, like. Very different. What's going on? And I do feel like they're starting to try to shade the millennials. But we built this. Yes, we built this. Brick by brick. Like, y'all wasn't doing. This is dial up. Exactly. History. Exactly. Like, just at the edge when it's like, okay, we still remember that time where it was like, you had to hear the little beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep. Like, s*** happening before the Wi-Fi. Y'all don't know what it was like to pay Lilo and Stitch on DisneyShadow.com. Y'all don't know. Y'all don't know. They ate. Zach and Cody. Okay, Zach and Cody. I loved all that. All the games. The little Nickelodeon parties and stuff we used to go to. That stuff we used to eat down. Kid's Choice Awards. Yes, going off. It was too fun. Oh, my gosh. Those memories. Now they're taking it all away. Something's always. Somebody got to ruin the fun for somebody. S*** alive. Okay. So, what do I want to go now and get into with us? I mean, I kind of want to ask you some questions. I mean, you don't got to ask me some questions. I know this is the baby, this is Kinky. I know we on your show, but I'm like, I got some questions for you, too. Okay, go ahead. I'm ready. Get it through with me. Here's the thing about traveling. While postcards are nice, the real magic happens when you dive into local life. And trust me, there is no better way to unlock a cold. When food's on the table, we're all speaking the same delicious language. Speaking of which, I've got some exciting news, y'all. I'm hosting my very own Airbnb original experience in Chicago on December 17th. And it is all about cooking up some love in the kitchen. Imagine this culinary dream. You, me, my pops, and a local chef with mad skills all in one kitchen cooking up a storm. We're talking flavors. So good. They'll make your taste buds do a happy dance. We're talking delicious recipes, kitchen secrets, and plenty of laughs. We're about to make this kitchen feel like the hottest cooking show in town. And y'all know when my dad and I get together, there is bound to be some entertainment. We might even share our secret ingredient for the perfect comfort food. I don't know about that one. The best part? It's not just about what's cooking in the pots and pans. It's the laughs we'll share. The stories we'll tell. And yes, the absolutely incredible. The incredible food we'll devour together. When good people gather in the kitchen, that's where the real magic happens. So whether you're a kitchen pro or a novice, this experience is for everyone who loves good food and good company. 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Some of my ingredients I even ordered online because who has time to drive all over town? When I saw that Apple Pay button at checkout, I knew I was in for a smooth, secure transaction without having to enter any card numbers. Say goodbye to typing in payment details while trying to read your aunt's handwritten recipe. Look, hosting Thanksgiving is stressful enough without payment drama. Apple Pay keeps at least one part of the holiday preparations running smoothly. Now, if it could just help me figure out how early to start thawing this turkey. Say goodbye to payment hassles and hello to seamless transactions. Pay the app away and keep your holiday preparation stress-free. Terms apply. I mean, honestly, I'm like, okay, so in all of the different years that you have, you've played a lot of different characters, you know, you've had a lot of work on breaking down the character and their emotions and how they would feel, how they would say something. When it came to this album, were you a little bit scared like about like, okay, well, what is this version of me? I was very, very scared actually doing Just Kiki. And I mean, I know you know, you know, because you were there. I think it's so interesting when I hear you talk about me when I was younger, and just like how vulnerable I was, and how I was not just expressing myself, but I was embodying what I was expressing. I think as I got older, in being so in the public eye, it became so much harder to embody that level of vulnerability. It just was, my performance became to be the show. And I just kind of almost disconnected from that side, because some of it was really hard and heavy to hold. And I think when everything happened that even led up, you know, in my life, that led up to me doing the Just Kiki album, it was very much a come to Jesus moment of, you know, no more performing strength, you know, just just live in it and experience what it is your experience and let it really overwhelm you. And I just remember me, you know, in my mind thinking, if I'm going to do another project again, and my art means so much to me, I have to be, I have to be 100% in it. And there's no way that I'm going to be able to do this without Taylor. Because, A, obviously, your extraordinary skill you've done, you have so, so much to do, you have so much success. But then also, you know, me, and I was gonna, I knew I would feel safe. But I was very scared. So that's why I was like, I'm only going to be able to be trusted. I'm not doing this when nobody else but Taylor. And so that's why that's how I felt going into this album. And I remember that first day. Girl, that first day was crazy. And again, it was just you being like, let's talk about it. The real. Like, I don't want to hear the PR. And I don't want to hear I want to hear we're back 11 again. And I want to hear like, Dan, how did you feel about all this crazy? It just went down. And how are we going to make sure that we're telling your side of the story? Because it got a little bit out of control there for a second when everybody else's opinion of how they felt it all went down. And you know, but this was a moment where we were like, oh, let's reclaim it. It was the most humiliating time of my life. Yeah, it was the most humiliating time of my life. It was so out of control. Yeah. And I'm a person that really tries to be strong. I'm a person that really has pride in what I represent. You know, Larry and Sharon. Exactly. Girl. Exactly. Larry and Sharon don't do bullshit. You know, they would stress us out going to City Walk and you act right because they're watching you. Yes. It's like, who's watching me? You know what I mean? Like, the world is a young black woman. They always put it there. Like, you can't just. You can't just be coming in your way. Yes. And so for me, it's like carrying that weight. And I'm sure everybody, whether they are an entertainer or whoever, as a black person, when you're carrying that kind of weight, it can make it seem like you have to be just so damn perfect. Yes. And nobody can. You're asking me to be. I mean, there's only one Barack Obama. Like, everybody not going to be. Exactly. Barack and them. You know, in general, you know, like you think about the every black person that gets to this thing. Everybody wants you to be that. Yes. They want you to be perfect. Yes. And it is something. It was a burden in my life. You know. Yeah. But I still tried to rise at it every every step. Y'all raise the bar this way. Guess what? I'm doing this. Right. Right. Right. Right. Guess what? I'm doing this. I always did what I had to do. But then this happened and it was not about anything that I had to do. OK. It's about something that I had to face in my life and that I can't control everything. And this is a change. And so I just remember having that conversation with you that led us to. Yeah. Off script and misunderstood immediately to my favorite tracks on the album. The first things that we did. And it was from that conversation where I was just talking to you was just I mean, how do you do that? You because you don't just do it for me. Right. It ain't just because I'm your best friend. You've done it for multiple albums with Ariana Grande. The list goes on where you've created these moments for people that encapsulated these moments in their life. But I just remember just telling you and you were just looking and you would say a little word. And I would just keep I mean, what how are you able to do that and allow me to be amused to also your gift? It's so funny because it's like the same thing that you probably have like when you become a character. Right. That isn't like not you at all. I do think that being curious about like, whoa, this person is having feeling a lot of emotions and maybe I'm not so good at saying my emotions like right away, but I'm so curious about other people's and making sure that everybody else is understanding. But I do think that there is this this curiosity that I have of just listening to somebody's story because I know how it feels to be misunderstood. Right. That not to plug. But it's the worst feeling in the world. So as a songwriter, my only job here is to make sure that you feel heard. But you also so skillfully inside of the emotion I express. Well, you wove in or it was woven in the narrative within the narrative, which is. Off script. I'm an actor. So this is we're talking about two relationships. Yeah. Not just my relationship with my craft, with this guy, but with my audience. Not only did he misunderstand me, but so did you. Yes, absolutely. So we're also talking about the parasocial relationship, which is the overarching theme of Just Kiki as well, where it's like I'm using one one relationship to lead you into another relationship to reflect this relationship. Absolutely. That's honestly like you've got to be able to as a songwriter to tie in all of these different moments, because you could also be the person writing a song that gets them read. Like, you know what I'm saying? You don't want to be that person that's like, what was this song happening? You know, when you know, you could you could be a part of it and you have to just I take so much pride in the fact that this is going to be somebody's very real emotions. Now, if they get read and it's still real, well, at least we got it out. And it's real. And I'm going to make you as likable as possible when we when we do this like little thing, you know, unless that's not the intention or whatever. Yeah. But I think that that's the the realest thing like and so special for me to be a part of is when somebody is like, this is exactly what I was trying to say, you know, so I'm so thankful that you got to feel that as well when working with each other. Oh, my gosh, I felt it. And even on the ones that I had nothing to do with writing wise. I mean, when I think about Unless It's You, when you turn that on, because this is at the end of our. We're creating the project and you were like, I got another one that I want you to hear that I think would be right. And you played that song and you're like, I think it's going to round it out. And I remember hearing it immediately. Tears in my eyes. You remember? I remember you because it made you have tears in your eyes. It was one of the girl, one of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard in my life in a in a power ballad. We don't get that often, but you still somehow made it feel now. How did you know that that was a project that we needed on the album? Because we went through a lot of different phase went through the beginning of the love story, you know, with my son's father to the crash out the building burning down the aftermath, but also we made space for what was. Absolutely. I think that especially when you decide to say, first of all, to be this deeply involved in a project and then also co-executive producing with you, it's like from track one, I'm trying to see what track. 13 is going to be from track one. I need to understand and make sure that I walk away from this album, knowing that people got the full side of you right now. And the other thing that I like to do is when you are 65, 70 years old and you listen back to this particular body of work, I want it to transport you. I want it to transport you back to that time and those emotions that you were feeling and also to see the growth. Like, man, I used to be, you know, going great. This is what I was going through. I felt like that was the worst time of my life. But then three albums later, you feel it. That is what the music is supposed to do, is kind of be like a, just a time capsule for you. And so when we were going through it in this especially with Unless It's You, I was like, there's so many things that came out of, I think, just seeing you evolve over years, like whole time, you know, the whole, I don't know, 20-something years has been about your career, right? And so I knew that you being a parent was going to change things in a crazy, crazy, crazy way, because I don't know if there's anything outside of your family that you would care more than, you know, than your actual career, that's something that you put all this time and energy in, than your child, right? And so with your child, and then, of course, even just being vulnerable enough to love somebody and let somebody love you, those moments have to be on this album. And regardless of if that love has evolved since then, right? But it's good to talk about those moments, because then you get to know, like, okay, well, this is how we got here. And then the next album, they'll understand what it evolved into, what it didn't, whatever. Yes, because it's all, I often say that to people with unless issue, and I do think they get it, like, it's so true that it's, it captures the risk and the vulnerability, but also the farewell of, it can be, it can be what it is, even if it didn't become what it needed to become. Boom. You know, and I think that's sometimes difficult, but it's the honor. Yeah. You know, of what that, what that means. Oh, my gosh. So when you, when I said, hey, I want you to do this album, what was something that you thought to yourself that you wanted people to know about me through this body of work that maybe only, you know, you've seen or you've known that you would want to, want this project to help them to see about me? Um, I think personally, the more, like, serious and intimate side, because a lot of times, like, you see people and you're like, the gag is, and da-da-da-da-da, and like, all those other things that make you so funny and so you, but there's all these other things that I love. I love so much about you that they haven't seen, you know, and all of these other things that aren't, you know, a character or a performative thing that I love so much about you that I'm just like, people gotta see this. You guys gotta get a load of this. You know? I'm like, hey, guys, do you see all these other amazing things? And so, like, definitely, that was something that I was like, okay, they, they've got to see these other aspects. And so, when you first hit me up about this, I was like. I'm up where we at, where you need me to be. Like, and we got it done, and it didn't take that long, honestly. No. Um, and I love projects that don't feel like work. Um, it felt like a bunch of therapy sessions that, you know, of working through, and I feel like it started off probably, I feel like our first moment started off of your, your past birthday. We were literally having, like, just the most real conversations, and I truly think, and I don't know. That was my 30th birthday? Yeah. Yeah. That was sad. That was really crazy as s**t. Yeah. But amazing, too. It was, like, amazing with y'all, but inside of it was s**t. Exactly. Inside of it was like, what the f**k is going on with life, but I'm with my girl. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Do you have a favorite song? Mine's is Misunderstood from the album. Da-da-da-da-da-da. I know that's hard, but. I mean, I also love Unless It's You, but Misunderstood is the one I would literally listen to every day, on repeat. I mean, it's our girl, that tic-tac, walkin' in the hip. Everybody loves Exposed. I'm sorry, like, Exposed, the lyrics are just so funny, and I felt like we really gathered up, like, your funny part, your funny aspect, but we bein' real. Like, we're bein' funny, but this ain't no joke. The way that the funny and the silly of my personality is captured, even with the, you was supposed to be my stadman, like, middle, like, stadman. Girl, are you saying you're Oprah? Well, now they didn't even call it that, T. Now, they didn't even clock that, T, okay? Because if you're a stadman, what does that make me? And the old f***, like, the melody of the conversation of that record is so, so, so, so, so, so. But yeah, I mean, obviously, Exposed, too. I mean, even when we get into the, you know, boy, you know I'm from Chicago. I ain't like these LA hoes. No shade, no cheek. Tell me who you had in my veins. Okay? It's so much of that character that I really do like. It's so much of that character that I really do feel like. Because it's how I, it's how I buffer the moment. So I should live in the music. You know, because I really am a very serious person. Only people really close to me know that. Exactly. Because who wants to burden you with this? Exactly. If I really come to you and talk about the awareness of life and all of it makes no sense and honestly, we're just going to live and we're dying. Like, nobody wants me to, you know, you don't want that. So I just buffer it with jokes and stuff like that. So I think it's like, it's good to feel that in the music and I'm so happy that this album, I realized when I did this, I was like, I'm going to do this. I did the Lauren EP and then when I did the Big Boss Project, like, storytelling is me. That's how I, how I do an album, how I do music. It's my own way and it's not meant to be anything other than Kiki. You know, and that's also like, again, the big statement with the album of Just Kiki is that reality. And I couldn't have done it without you, you know. Thanks, man. Well, another person who I feel like you couldn't have done it without, which is, I've always wanted to ask you this, is Baby Leo. This is Kiki Palma, yeah. Y'all know your girl is busy hosting my podcast, memorizing my scripts and running after my little one. Breaking through this busy season requires equipment that's working as smart as I am. And that's why I'm obsessed with the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus. It's cross training reimagined with features designed to help you reach your goals effortlessly. Giving personal trainer meets tech genius. This thing is so smart. Peloton IQ provides intelligent strength coaching, watching my every move in the best way possible. The movement tracking camera counts my reps, corrects my form, and suggests weights that'll challenge me at the exact right moment, helping me achieve more in less time. And don't even get me started about the swivel screen situation because it's everything. One minute I'm conquering a 45 minute run. Then with one smooth spin, I'm flowing. Going into a five minute stretch. The personalized plans though, that's the real showstopper. Peloton IQ creates these custom workout plans that have me feeling like the main character in my own fitness journey. Matching you with instructors who get your whole vibe, whether you need that extra push or just some real talk motivation. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push, and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus at OnePeloton.com. How do you feel like your creative, uh, I don't know, explorations and journey and stuff have changed since becoming a mother? Leo's made me much braver. I thought I was brave before. You know, I think most people would feel like, you know, yeah, I'm courageous. You know, but there's been times where I haven't been for myself. I've been courageous for others, but I haven't always been courageous for myself. I love you so much. You know, a lot of times what kept me going was what I'm doing for my mom and dad, what I'm doing for the twins, you know, what I'm doing for my family. That's what gave me courage. But when it came to being able to speak up for what I wanted, I never could do it, you know? But when Leo came around, Leo made me feel like I could do anything for me. And that's different. That really is different because it's like when you're the kind of person that is always like, you know, your identity is based off giving, you know, it's outward. It can be difficult to understand how to make that twist and transition, but children are always going to be, my mom says that all the time. Children are our gifts. They telling us what we need to know and what we are meant to truly be. And Leo showed me that I could do it for me, that I could make the hard choices, that I could say no to others to say yes to myself, that I could have boundaries. Because Leo, when he doesn't want it, he's like, bye girl, get to stepping. Oh, and I love it. I love it. I'm like, when little Leo was like, girl, you ain't been around seven months. I don't even know you anymore. I'm like, and you have every right to feel that way, look, even about me, even about your T.T. But he loves every time you come in with a gift. I know. I'm like, he be playing. Because you be always giving a little gift, too. You the rich auntie. I'm like, ask him about the cool lunch. Exactly. No, but I love that. And it's been so amazing and inspiring just seeing like, you know, when you've been that same way since you were so freaking young and then you're able to make that transition and making that transition for your son and with your son, it's been so amazing to see. And it's crazy you bring it up because I just need everybody to know you were right there when he was born. Yes. You're putting up his whole bass and neb, his crib, watching his little clothes, making sure it was organized, getting his room ready. You came right there in Connecticut, you was right there, you and Nora did everything, showing me doing videos the whole way while I'm up in there, can't feel my legs. Yeah, I didn't like that part. I was like, I don't like this. I was pushing that button every damn minute. I didn't like the you in the hospital part. I was like, okay, now I'll make sure my friend good back there, you know. It was so amazing. - Yeah. - So I wanna get into, 'cause obviously growing up for us some of those big writers that people would often, even as early on in your career when you first started writing, they would be comparing you to Esther Dean or to the Money Longs. And I'm curious if you ever got a chance to talk to those women or if they were ever any mentors to you at any point or who kind of supported you on your journey of becoming who you are in the music industry. I mean, so many people, because I always say, actually, yeah, like when it comes to black women doing pop music and other genres, there's not that many people to look up to. Actually, there is Esther Dean and there's Money Long and then a few others that I'm probably not thinking of right now. But when you start to get into those names of like one of four black women have ever done a country number one and one of eight have done rock and roll number one, it's not that many people to look around. And I can say that both Esther and Money Long have been so. Inspiring. So when it came to I felt like I was running into like I was procuring a lot of the opportunities for myself, but there was always some guy wanting to come in and say, like, OK, I want 20 percent of everything, everything. And not the pimp language. Exactly. Exactly. I'm like, I just want you to get a percentage of the things that you bring in, you know, or whatever. It just depends on that. Like, I'm not asking for anything crazy. And so I went to I both asked Neo and Esther Dean these questions because I knew that they would understand. I was like, do you think? I should just say, you know, it like because this is just the way that the industry has been. Right. You know, boom. And they were like, nope, you stick with you. You stick with your guns. And I was like, OK, so if these other writers can do it, you know, I can do it. So that's what the conversation I had with them. And then with Priscilla or Money Long, seeing somebody who's definitely giving Virgo down. Yeah. Another Virgo in our hands. Virgo down. Seeing her really, really stand up for herself no matter what, because our industry is so based off of being. Being relevant and being likable. And sometimes you can be, you know, you can be more relevant and less likable or whatever it is. But you're so concerned about all those things because our industry makes you feel like we can't wait to replace you. Actually, we'll get somebody for a third of the price if we can replace you because they haven't been around as long. They haven't achieved as much, you know. Oh, my gosh. So but when you have women like that, that you can look up to and say, no, they stood by it and seeing their evolution. Money Long is an artist. Esther Dean is an actress as well. Like, it just gave me even more, more reason to say, OK, and some black girl will be looking at me one day and saying, oh, yeah, like she's been able to get like number ones in seven different genres. It's impossible for me the way that I think is if one person has done it, then anybody can do it. But I just need to be one of the one people who does it. Yes. And I love hearing that they were there to give you that good advice. I think that's so important because it's so true what you said, where we often see this industry wash, rinse and repeat. And we especially see it in female rap, where it's like they use the newer girl to take out the older lady and then now they keep on doing it. And I mean, and it's really interesting because I feel like I it's to me, it's like it isn't allowing the craft to move forward because nobody knows where their enemies are coming from and know when to talk to each other because it's also competitive instead of it being collaborative and us getting some amazing new records or new sounds or whatever it could be. I mean. I mean, how do we fight against that, you think? Because I know you do a lot of that with writers. I mean, in the community with trying to get things changed and moved and getting more respect and getting more of your earnings. But how do we continue to move up against the corporate side? I mean, obviously we have to learn more, but how do we put the power more in our hands so that they can't pit us against one another? Ownership. I'm a true believer in ownership and you don't got to own it all. You don't got to own everything. You don't have to. You don't have to own it all at the same time, but you have to have some type of, I got really tired of saying like, oh, can we do this? And they'd be like, I got to ask the boss. You got to ask the boss's boss, boss, boss, boss, boss, boss, boss. I'm like, who am I talking to here? Because nobody wants to take accountability. If there's always somebody, I would rather you tell me, I don't think that you are worth paying. That's right. Now, if you can come to me and you can tell me that, I'll say. And what are you basing it off of? And what are you basing off of? Because this is where it gets tricky and I'm sure you feel the same way is I'm cool. I know my worth and my value. But I know we're in a business, so I'm cool with going by the data for this scenario. We can go by the data. But what happens when y'all move the goalposts of the data? Exactly. What happens when people can do this and that and all of a sudden they're number one, but nobody played the record? Exactly. What do we then do with that type of thing? Because they can move you at the history books based off of one little rule change. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think it still goes back to owning something. Something. Creating businesses that uplift the creator. If you're upset about songwriters don't get paid and they go to a session, we'll start a publishing company or a management company and you find a way to pay them. Make the new normals. You're upset about writers don't get this or artists don't do this, then actually build companies that you want to see be the new normal. And even if yours isn't the company that creates the new normal for the next 20 years, you're a part of many people who will try to continuously do that again. And we've been. We're really struggling with this, the big three, you know, and we have to only be concerned with what they're all doing. But we forget that, you know, if we could take our rap girlies, for instance, most of our big rap girls, they started off on an indie that is outsourcing this talent to the major. Like, it didn't just directly go to the major. Absolutely not. It blew up. And then they were like, time to get the bag. And in exchange for that, that particular bag, you give up. A really, really powerful chest mark. And let's talk about that, right? Because I do think it's a give and take with anything in life. So if a young artist is thinking about signing to a label and they're giving up, you know, let's say Masters and whatever other. Maybe they also are giving up Merch or a couple of other things. But they're getting not only mass production and major promotion, but they're going to get a big hefty check. Is that an issue as long as they know they're going into that? Because I feel like it's important to tell the people that, hey, something's going to give. If you want complete ownership, you may not get as much marketing. You may not get as much money. You may be spending more than you're making. Now, will you have a lot to bargain with when that time comes and you decide to get a collaborator? Sure. But it's like no direction is wrong. And I feel like a lot of times we make it seem like black and white, but it's really about what you want. That's exactly what I was going to say. Anytime you sign anything, it's first of all, what is my idea of happiness? My idea of happiness, because to be an artist, for instance, if we just keep it with just artistry, it's like, okay, if you want to fast track to being able to open up for an artist that is on, let's say they're a Warner artist or whatever, and you're like, dang, I would really love to open up for Dua Lipa, then maybe you should be a Warner artist because it's going to be a lot easier for you to, first of all, be able to afford to go on that tour, but also because they want to see Warner acts opening up for Warner headliners. That's just an example. But the other thing is like, okay, what is my idea of happiness? Do I want to do arenas? Do I want to just be able to sell at the Roxy? Do I want to earn my merch? What is your idea of happiness? Because that's how you know what kind of building you need to be in, what kind of structure that it looks like, because those are two completely different ways of going. And every now and then, we talk about this all the time, like the artist, you know, and the superstar, like in that type of way. Sometimes they become one, like they are one thing at one point in their career, but a lot of the times, the pop star is not willing to do what the artist does, and the artist is not willing to do what the pop star does. Period. Those are different things. And it's totally okay. And both make the world go round. You can't have one without the other. So I do think that, yeah, like if you're going to take, if you know that, whoa, I want to, also I think women artists are very different because it costs us a lot more to be artists. Yeah, because you think of the glam, right? The fashion. I mean, fashion itself is a billion dollars. Yes, absolutely. It's a damn grief. Absolutely. Fashion, that'll really spook you. Yeah, it will. But yeah, yeah, it is more expensive in that regard, the fashion, the glam. But you start to realize, dang, I done pulled the same outfit like three times. Maybe I should buy it. It's like, mix it up a little bit. You know, if I'm renting the same red camera, you know, for the 50th music video, you could have bought the mother f***ing red cameras. So, and then also you working on your next album. I know we were just talking about it when we was in New York. Ooh, just said you was just talking about it. Oh, yeah, we were in New York. Yeah, you were selling your work on You Ready to Do. Full album again. Yes, I'm ready to do a full new album again. And I just kind of like with my own project, I like to make sure I've lived enough life. Yeah. I think that between the last album, it took a little bit younger. It took like a year and a half in between, which I never do because I always feel like the longer that you take, it's like, I got to catch you up on this and this and this and this and this. And it's like, I'm five years older. Of course, there's much to catch you up on, you know. So I try to make sure that I'm talking to the people sooner than later. And so, yeah, definitely in between projects, I've just been kind of, you know, I've been kind of, I'm in the very early stages right now of just shaping it all. Yeah. And I'm excited for next year for it to come out. I can't wait. You know, I love everything that you do. And I want to go back down memory lane because my dad found this in Chicago, girl. Ah, come on. In the garage. Come on. That you made me for one of my birthdays. Yeah. Yeah, you made this T&K. Yeah. Best friends. You see this? This done left, but the friendship remained. Exactly. Okay. Best freeds. So let's see what this is. Okay. Yeah. This is. This is us nine years old when we were doing American Juniors. First picture we ever took together. I mean, we got our numbers on. First of all, look at that hair. You always loved cutting your hair. here you used to piss me off and they're always like what am i supposed to braid now exactly i was always braiding taylor's hair and wrestling her and tackling her yeah but i'm like look i'm the small one i was never winning i was and then you were trying to force me to play basketball remember you was the first person i think that made me watch love and basketball yes because you loved that movie i loved that and i kept trying to literally find that type of thing i was like i'm gonna find me a little love and basketball thing yes what was that michelle something like that you made a fool of me like what was i going through you loved that song we used to watch that movie all the time yes and play that one fighting game in your dance room dance dance revolution no the fighting one oh but you remember it wasn't like tech and it was something else that your dad had we used to play i feel like i know what you're talking about because i can see the character but i don't know oh my gosh here we go this is what i was talking about when taylor pulled out that damn black car yeah and we was like damn what is this you can see it on his work he's like yeah exactly he was looking like jay-z too with this look let me hang with the players yeah hanging with the players lol yeah because taquan always was trying to act like he was a player though he was we look so cute i love this is the 14th birthday oh yeah we had an 80s themed birthday bash that was really fun oh yeah and i actually feel like that first picture might have been on the cake of the birthday one of these little pictures something like that because we always brought that picture back oh these were our first boyfriends oh this is our first boyfriend exactly hey y'all hey bros josh and brandon oh my gosh yes so this was the guy that taylor was dating when she was in middle school and i'm on my space you introduced me to his brother brandon uh-huh that would go literally on i was still around with josh you know until my 20s on and off on and off on and off until my 20s that was a good one i really loved brandon for a long time yeah you did yeah i really loved brandon for a long time yeah i really loved brandon for a long time yeah i really loved brandon for a long time yeah you did was getting all kind of trouble um never forget some of the stories because then he got then the industry girls found him and all of a sudden they liked exactly no y'all do not like come here got nothing for y'all exactly because y'all wasn't getting booked on them movie roles y'all was mad i was taking them parts exactly so y'all trying to take my man this is so funny seeing me like in this little dress and everything i'm like gay as hell now and i'm like i'm like i'll still wear a dress or something but with a tight little body i'm like okay she's giving her i'm holly no but you always eat down today then don't matter to look yeah oh my gosh so cute but we did go through so many phases because what was i mary poppins why was i trying to act all sweet innocent exactly because you're like i got this little boyfriend but i'm sweet and innocent oh yeah and this was also this so this was naeem i remember we tried to get you i was like getting into it and then i wasn't into it and then i wasn't but then i ran into him randomly like in my 20s i was walking around howard and oh yeah because he went to howard crazy yeah that was my little move for a second oh my gosh this was us in the bedroom of altadena house yes i remember when i used to uh move renny's little bed in there and she would be sleeping in there with me and then i'm about to get mad like renny out you're out now so mean so mean and now renny is one of us she's like out here i'm like really not you being wrong yeah grown okay now this is really this was one of my best birthdays of my entire life you remember we would universal city walk sleep over and we made that video but because youtube changed the rules they ripped our video down crazy because of all the music we used in it oh yeah this is before they did exactly girl so this is that's crystal that's kashan that's angelique that's me that's you obviously that's maya oh my gosh and then karen baby karen not so funny because maya i met on myspace and obviously like i didn't go to real school so i would be having it i would try to come up with these lives where my mom would be like yeah we we met her at one of the events like and so yeah like but i really met her on myspace and i wanted to hang out with her at the mall so i was like mom yeah we met her you know her family and everything and then we show up at the mall and we meet for the first time i was always doing that that is trying to just have friends exactly just and friends who weren't in the industry like regular friends which is like something like touchy it's like sometimes you want to you want to know thy enemy sometimes you know you want to know but sometimes i feel like this is when we got razor phones yeah and then the little side kicks oh my gosh girl okay and then this is the last thing you wrote it says nothing makes me more happy than to know that i have such a close friend know that you're down for me is reassuring it's the reason i'm always smiling love you taylor bff and handwriting was everything let's just get into that real quick because mine looks like chicken scratch oh crap i was over here like a little bit of a little bit of this is so funny i haven't seen that probably since i gave it to you girl literally i love you so much taylor i love you so much thank you for coming on the podcast yes i'm like we out here in the building come on look at that you don't got your son everything baby this is kiki palmer i love you real bad thanks for having me taylor parks is the real deal an artist a boss and a friend who knows how to pull the truth out of any moment and make it sing i'm so proud of just kiki and what we created together and even prouder of the woman in force taylor's become thank you for sharing your heart your brilliance and your virgo magic with me baby this is kiki palmer baby this is this is kiki baby this is kiki palmer yeah baby this is kiki palmer is hosted and executive produced by me kiki palmer lucas siegel is our post producer our producers are lauren hampton and molly nester hillary esty mclaughlin is our executive producer production services provided by evolution media our original theme song was written and performed by me kiki palmer for team kiki my producer is sharon palmer for wondery our managing producer is olivia fonti senior managing producer is nick ryan and our executive producer is kiki palmer our emily feldbrake aaron o'flaherty and marshall louis