From Vineyards to AI: How Technology Is Shaping the Future of Wine with Laurent David.

A great one is something that you have a glass of it and you want another one. It's easy to have something very strong, powerful, full body. You take a zip and say, "Wow, great. You want more? I'm good." Sit back and grab a glass. It's Wine Talks with All-K. Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. We are at an away game, way away from where I'm usually at, which is in Paris, Texas at Wine Paris. We're in the LA Wine Talk booth with the president. We're going to call them. They have a Laurent which is a consortium of. So you're really an organization that is bringing tech to the Wine World. That's exactly the point. I'm coming from the tech. I used to work for Apple for 10 years launching an iPhone here and there in Europe. And I moved away in 2019 to the Wine World. That wasn't my old instance. I was a kid. So I'm also a Wine Maker in Centennial doing my own wine. And I keep a foot, you know, one in the vines, one in the tech, where I'm helping all those startups to innovate in the Wine World. Well, this is very synergistic. My daughter works for Apple. Yes. This is her. She's very smart. She ran two stores in Southern California and now she's in charge of a part of a team that brings women back into the workforce on the hardware side. Very important. Yes, I'm telling her, you stick with this. Right? You said it's very. Apple seems to be such an excellent tech company. I miss it a lot. I still have a lot of friends that admire what they do. And I'm sure great things are coming. Were you an American at that time? I was a. I was living in London at a time. Travelling kind of once a month to a Cupertino, California. Yeah. I enjoyed it. It was tiring. Nine hours yet like. But it was so cool. Great time. She had her first visit to corporate and was just taken by the whole place. Oh yeah, it's beautiful. You know, I was a corporate America when my first part of my career I was with a company called Xerox, which was a great company. Sort of at the same precipice as Apple is now, but failed miserably on technology, even though they're very good at it. Apple took a look from Xerox. Yeah, their talented group. But this is interesting for me because you come from the tech world, which is an important part of the world, particularly today. And we were just talking about AI. I used AI extensively, daily. And now you're bringing it to the wine world, which I'm not having a hard time grasping that, but I'm having. trying to understand the idea between this traditional company, this traditional business, this farmers that are producing something from the soil and you bringing technology to them to help them understand the world. Well, in fact, this is pretty close, even though we can't imagine it because we see wine as a very agricultural thing. And wine makers are obsessed with innovation. Right. Each one maker I'm sure you've visited, they probably made you taste something they are preparing. A new barrel, a new grape, a new wine. And that's an obsession in the wine world to improve your wine and you're only one chance once a year. That's right. Softloir, you can do once a week. It's so slow. That's why it's slow, but the obsession for the best one is there, the obsession for changing, improving is there. So not the only big difference is the pace. So this is a question I ask every wine maker comes in. You're a wine maker and you're on the tech side. What does that mean? What does it mean to produce the best wine? Obviously, the wines. like. we'll give you an example. The 1949 Charles Crude private selection, you know, was just rated a hundred. And that's a wine made with zero technology. But as a wine maker, what does that mean to you to say, "I want the best wine I can make?" Is that the best expression? Is there why the best expression of you as a person? Yeah, that's a huge question. Yeah, well, yeah, but it's so important. But it's so important. What is the best one for you, for me, for my 20 years old daughter and, you know, for Spanish, for an Italian, for. No, I can't answer to that. I think there will be very, very different answers. Number of points used to be something very simple for people to understand, yes, it was good, great. Okay, what about. But all the ones seems to be good with the punch system. So I think the punch system is probably going a little bit away. Now, people are more looking at their. Vivino type of. Marks, they are there, rather than trusting something else. But that's the word we live in today, right? Michelin is losing other's trip advisor. That's the way we are. So, having the best one for me, I will give you my definition. Yes. Which is something million. It's a million, yeah, of course, I love that place. Because I mean, the vines love to be there for centuries. So that's a good sign. You have a good one, you might need to have good vines. And a place where I work, I do ed news. We have a 20-1 since the 17th century. So that means some things probably to produce a great wine. Now, for me, a great wine is something that. You have a glass of it, and you want another one. Yes. You know, it's easy to have something very strong, powerful, full body. Wow, that emotion. You want more? I'm good." Yeah, all right. So, for me, you see that point? Yes. The thing that one glass calls another one. Right. For me, that's. So, it's a balance. Probably a great wine definition is a balance of a lot of things. So that doesn't give you an answer. What I'm trying to. What I want to do is a wine that makes people happy. And I'm not. I'm not saying drunk. No. No, not at all. Of course. I want people to feel an emotion. You know, you've seen that movie Retta 2e. Yes. When the judge, you know, this critics go to the restaurants, is having tomato and something with the kidneys, and it travels back to when he was a kid. That's right. He said, "My mom is the best." Wow. This is powerful. But I would. If I can get to that with my wine, I will be so happy. You know, years ago, we were here in Paris. We went to a, you know, Brasserie, you know, a tourist. But I ordered the quiche. Yeah. And it came. And I looked at my wife and she says, "What's wrong with you?" I go, "This smell is from my mom's quiche." 40 years ago. 40 years ago. 40 years ago. And me. And it was. I almost cried because it was so powerful. And. But. So that. That defines something in the wine world. Because I had this romantic theory that whether you drink, you know, strawberry hill or Boone's farm or. Or Josh, you know, off. A poppy red off the shelf where you drink a fine sondtem of the ill. Eventually, when you taste that one wine that does what you say, you realize there's something else to this. There's something. It's taking you somewhere else. Yes. Not just the alcohol. And so, isn't that the. Isn't that the crux of all these people here? I mean, I can't believe the amount of wine in this show, all with the same objective, preferably. I probably, yes. And that's not. And that's great with wine because it's a journey. You never stop on discovering. I spoke to one of the best somebody in the world. And it's only what he loves about wine. He even knew after 20 years of testing all the wines in New World from all the region from all ages, he keeps on learning because there's always something new. So, that's life, basically. There it is, different. And what you do yesterday counts, but what you're doing today now, together is more important. It's like life in a bottle. Yes. Life in a bottle. So, when you do this and I want to go around today, I want to talk to every one of your vendors here to talk about what they're doing in the world of wine tech. Now, I have people come to my office. They sit and there, I had one woman tell me, she thought Chateau Lafitte or she would be in the can one day. And so, that's the face I've made. But when it comes to tech in the world, I mean, are we talking about wine tech where we help the wineries bring it to the market? Are we helping them understand what needs to work behind the scenes in order to be, you know, to produce the best wine they can? Where does this organization lie with the tech and presenting it to the wine world? I will not talk to you about tech, but about, better about experience. I think we, one world, are guilty to make the one too intellectual, too complex, too. As if you needed a kind of WACT-4, just to be able to speak with authority about the wine. What matters is, you like it or you don't like it. Yes. I think why do you like it or why don't you like it? And that is the most important. And, you know, we, is the glass coming by, the wine coming by the glass, by a can or whatever. I think we need to go back to our customers. We lost the trust, the interest of younger generation, Gen Z. And, you know, if the moments, I think for me, the most important, as the moment of consumption have changed a lot. The traditional Sunday lunch with all the family is going away, right? Most of the families are just one parent. And you drink a bottle with some friends outside, at Barbeque, at a very T for as we call it in France. So, we should be able to get the wine better served at that time. Is it in a can? Is it in a smaller bottle? Is it by the glass at the restaurant? Who cares? Yeah, right. You're right. I think, I think we're trying to bring to the regular table. I call it the value of an honest wine. Honest wine being the ones you made. Why is it expressively? Why is it bring you back to someplace? The quiche that brings you back someplace. But I'm wondering where the, yeah, you're right. Maybe it's not tech side, but certainly in today's industrial world, a digital world, we need to keep up with what's going on. We need to use it. - How are you, how are you? Are we going to ignore it? - Yes. So why are there these farmers? - Yeah. - Right? - They don't, I don't understand this. And I'll never forget we were traveling to the Napa just the month before COVID had long conversations with what are we going to do? Because we don't have a chat button on our website. We don't have a, you know, robust, direct, to consumer software programs, CRM. So are we bringing those to the table for these folks to try the smaller wineries to try and figure out how we're going to use technology to round things out, to bring those tables? - You know, when you're at the bottom of a curve, that's the moment you can, you have to stand up and jump to do something before. COVID pushes to do that. And wine sales, digital one sales at that time, boomed everywhere in the world. And even wine makers who were not just selling at their setter and that's it. How to do online and they did, not all of them, but they did it. So I think, I told you about this, a perception is needed to innovate in a wine world in wine makers' head. I think they're much, we underestimate them. They're much bigger. And happy to move forward to new things, using new tools, using AI and decision making, free time to be more into the vineyards, into the setter, doing the wine, then doing paper and doing, you know, posts on social networks. So I think that all those tools are now available here. We should just share them the news. Yes. And they will take it. I'm convinced about that. Is there a disconnect between me as a wine maker wanting to just produce my best expression? And that's what the market gets. Like, you're going to produce something of your own, we're going to put the mellow and cabinet front. And this is what I think it is. The point I'm going to do is wine is so unique as a product. Either you produce what the consumer wants, which could be over sugar, not so dry in a can, versus what you think it should be out of the vineyard because you didn't touch it. And I just came from the raw wine festival yesterday. You know, those wines are all, like, untouched. So when you talk to a wine maker who's working in your sphere, do they express that concern? Like, wow, I want to make it this way. And you're like, yeah, but you've got to deal with the marketplace this way. Yeah. I mean, you pointed out the right way. I mean, wine makers are not only industry all-agriculture. There is a point of view. There's an opinion. You're defending something. And this is what you've got to translate into you one. There's some kind of art creation around it. If this are coming from a proper marketing analysis of consumer needs, no, not at all. And maybe that's a problem because we should probably understand that better. But let me refer to my previous company, Steve Jobs, used to say consumers, they don't know what they want, until they have it in their hands. So we're proposing. We keep on proposing. And we need smart people. We need connected people. We need people taking risks to reinvent this wine world. And something great will come out of it. One is all about celebrating. It's all about being together. And this digital life we have today removes us from these interactions. And the need for that is bigger than anywhere in a human history. So I think, right, what I call wine is, for me, it's a social portion. Something secret that gives you super power to discuss, entertain, meet, share with people you don't know. So that is something fantastic. And the more we share that, the better. - You're right. And I suppose the concept, you know, I spent 35 years doing this selling wine, DTC. And let's just take San Serra, for example. You nobody bought San Serra 20 years ago. Nobody cared, never heard of it. Now you hear people in the restaurant saying, how long is San Serra? You know wine? - No. - Thank you, Taylor Swift. - Was that? - Yes, that's right. Oh yeah, well, there you go. Okay, well, wait, that's a really good point. I mean, that's almost down the line of some kind of tech, or at least a popularity issue about wine. And wow, the wine purist would say, wow, that's kind of weird. You know, San Serra's always been really good, but it wasn't until Taylor Swift said something that people started wanting it. - Yeah. - I told you, it's not about being good about it. - Yes. - It's not about that. I had one of my cousins at a Spanish restaurant asked the waitress for San Serra. And I said, they don't have San Serra at a Spanish restaurant. They said, but they don't lead out. - They don't have sovignon. I'm sure they have sovignon or they have something else, which is great to tell. - Yes, of course. - They'll buy vinegars of them. - Oh, it's not difficult, I would say, to make a good wine today. A great one is probably something different. And definition is a lot. But the knowledge is there, right? There's some great universities in California, in, well, everywhere in the world, but you can learn the how, right? The technique is known. There's research, there's publication, there's teachers. So if only it's difficult to make a bad wine. Now, to make a great wine is something different. And maybe we need Taylor Swift. Thank you, Taylor. - You guys, right, we seek the great stuff. I can't always afford it, but we seek it, right? Actually, she has to take some amazing wines here if you take the time to do it. - I don't know. - Yeah, right. - I don't know. - Before COVID 2019, at least in America, my company was sort of a temperature gauge of what was going on. I always knew what was gonna be popular because every Tuesday I tasted wine and I would see what's coming into the marketplace. And I'd also see what's distressed because they're selling it cheaper than they were before. And so, but then COVID hit, I saw 2019, we were, this industry was starting to suffer it. COVID hit could do no wrong. They'd buy whatever I told them to buy. And then after COVID, it just started to tail off. And you guys use a lot of data and a lot of your clients use a lot of data. What have you seen in that data? Have you seen that it is generationally supported by the Gen Zs or SNAD or the millennia? Every of the screaming about the millennials were we gonna do about them, they're not drinking, but it turns out they are. How are we using data to make these decisions? Or how do you teach somebody to use the data? I was a marketing research guy, that's why I was thinking. - Yeah. - Another good creation, thank you for that. But let's go back to the roots of what you said. I mean, in my time at Apple, going to Latino, I was spending my weekends in Napa and Sonoma. I think you guys in the US mastered wine tourism. Definitely, this is something, and I look at what you done with the clubs, the list, and I say, wow, this is something super cool in order to make people connected, right, straight to the vineyards. And removing all the barriers in between, and just having a darn click. So what I did was my wine chateau edmonds, I created a club for consumer club. Is it a copy-based in the US? - Yes. - A concept, making your French way. And I've 200 now, club members, and I connect them as much as I can. I have what's up for that. They got messages from me working the vineyards. I imagine someone working in Singapore getting a message at lunchtime of seeing me just cutting some grapes in the vines. And I think this can create emotions, this can create connection. And out of the data, I think the technology today allows us to build bridges from the grapes, from the vines to the consumer. And young generation, they're digital, they're native digital. So if we don't use their tools, how on the earth can we get them getting our story? It's not about getting a TV ad before the news on ABC or CNN, right? They don't care about it. - They don't care. - It has to be on social network, on AI. We have to speak the language, being at the place where they are. And I think to connect with them, digital is one thing. And second thing for me is creating events. I think what is missing today, we talked about that previously, that the way of consuming wine we used to have is different today because everything has changed since COVID and with digital. And we should find ways to recreate moments where people have drink wines. Let me give you an example. There is a rock festival in France called the Hellfest. It's all about rock metal, heavy, heavy stuff. It was all about beer. There are beer, you know, those guys drink beers and beers and beers. But they're in the region where they produce some of the great white wine. Well, Nilsovignon and Nilroche, basically. And they start to introduce a wine two years ago. And you know what, it works. 20% of the consumption now is white wine from the region. Because we wrote the wine to the location where people are celebrating it and they won't be together. If there was only beer by can, maybe they can have a wine by can at the place. That works. that again we're technically. This is where I think some of the tech lives. One, it's a very difficult to teach a farmer data-driven reactions. That's hard to do. But, it is also the movement. And I think this patch represents a club of a group of people in the 70s and 80s in America, 115 chapters, to experience wine. They go to dinner, they'd have speakers, Robert Mondavi would come down to sleep. - Moments. - Great moments. So that, I think that's a critical part of what we do is getting this experience, that memory, just like the Keesh. And when you start a club on something in the own at your winery and they visit and they sign up every time they get that fox, they remember that thing. - Oh yeah. - Right? - Yeah. - And so my business was founded on that expirable, which was my dad was bringing to the table a story. Well, in the late 90s, all this junk was coming from Europe, 50 cents a liter, putting in different labels. And it's soured, I think, the consumers. - Okay. - They would get even a $60 a case free delivery, you know, they would go, "This isn't very good." And I think it's really important that that experience, we start driving that experience again. And so what I've landed on with the data part is, how do we use the data? And this is not necessarily a question, sort of a hypothetical question, but how do we use the data to attract the experience, to augment the experience? How do we get a winery to use AI to understand targeting that data? I'm not sure yet, personally, but isn't that what we're trying to do? - That's what we're trying to do. And we have no options but doing it. Let's be honest, right? We are turning point. If we don't do it, then probably why can this appear? - Yes. - I mean, that's an option of table. - I read that as something you wrote. - Yeah, that was pretty so profitable. I will be dying for that. And I don't want to admit that. That's why I'm fighting for that. Against that, sorry. But you say two words, data, what do we need data for? We need data to create story, you said. That's what you built and experiences. So how do we transform the numbers of something people can understand? How do we reach to that? There will be, in fact, the number one will be that the winemakers today, the one taking the power in the vineyards, are the guys who have 40, 45, you know, the new generations. They're replacing the old charts such as meat. And for them, internet is, they're native on internet. That's not the baseline. - This is the baseline. They live on internet. So that will speed up. That will speed up adoption. But that's not fast enough. That's not fast enough. So what we should do is what we try to do here is to show the face of these data and what's the benefit for the winemakers. You know, papers, administration for a winemaker is a nightmare, especially in very regulated countries such as France and we have in Europe. So we have AI tools now. You can save up to two, three hours per week using those tools. And that's fantastic. - That's amazing. - Then you can do what you like to do. - Yes. - Why take care of your customers and not being on talking to your declaration of a legal thing and legal that, right? So that's showing the benefit is one. I think we have other benefits. You know, we have, for example, a company here. You just take a picture of your bottle with your iPhone. Sorry for that. I could have said with Google from that I didn't say it. And you send a picture to jump. And in less than six hours with AI, they can generate moments of your conception of bottle conception, ingraged restaurants, ingraged location. I just started a campaign on Instagram to show that my bottle is available in such a few countries. They took one picture of my bottle and they made me a picture in front of the Hollywood sign in California. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Chinese wall, nine locations in the world where I can shoot my wine. It cost me 250 euros. So less than $300, I didn't spend any carbon footprint with that. I didn't have to travel the world to take that picture. I don't have the budget. And it took me six hours. - No, it's beautiful. - And on Instagram, you can see my bottle of traveling the world as if it was a Polaroid picture. - Yeah, right. - You know, it can have postcard memory. It's so showing the benefit. - I had this show idea. I had this passion to create shows on wine that aren't swirling and sniffing. - Yeah. - And so I've been using AI. My wife says, "Why are you wasting your time?" But I've created these some table-side shows. These little 30-second shows of a song and doing something. All AI, I sit down, I don't go through a whole process but I'll send you a couple. They're very funny. - I think they're very funny. - But, you know, so here's something, you already said it, but the experience of wine is so important. - Yeah. - Napa Valley is suffering greatly. Tasting room traffic of us off 30%. - Whoa, that's massive. It's huge. - I didn't know that. - Oh yeah, it's bad. And I'm sitting with Gurgertchills. You know, it's one of the great established wineries of Napa Valley, Vyla Gurgertch, good friend. And she's saying, you know, we, they're not coming in the door. Well, there's a lot of reasons for that. One is, it's very expensive to go to Napa Valley now. - Yeah. - It's $1,000 a night for a whole day. - Right, right. You know, if you put a lot of money out of the problem, right? - It's part of the problem. So, and I'm gonna go back to the beginning of email digital marketing when I was doing that. And that was, I would sell a membership as a handshake, much like you would sell a membership in the Tasting Room or in Napa Valley. - Yeah. - So, in those people were very loyal because they met me. - Yeah. - We stand a booth, I tell them the program, they take the brochure, they sign up, and then they got that package. - And you plant the, do I see like a quiche? - Right, that's exactly. - That's, yeah, that moment. - So, the internet doesn't provide that experience. Because, like you said, the generation behind us, they're so used to the internet and buying and selling subscriptions, canceling subscriptions, you know, with the push of the button. So, how do we create the experience without the experience, right? So, what I did, what I tried to do, is create an introduction video every time somebody signed up for my club. The next day they got an email from me, it was me and my warehouse going through the process, how I choose the wines and all that. And that was my idea to bring myself into their home because they didn't ever meet me before, they never had a conversation with me before. So, I don't know if it worked or not, because we didn't have the data back then to really understand it. We had, you know, click throughs, and we had every time. - Yeah, which is already, you know, that's like old stuff now. But now we have a lot more information, and we can be more targeted. - Yeah. - And I sent, this is true, in 2022, I sent 33 million emails. - 33 million emails. - That's called Spamine, you know what I mean? - Yes, well, but that's what had to happen, because, and this is why I'm leading into this idea with how we're gonna use data, so I don't have to send 33 million emails. I only send three million, but I hit the people that really want to see the message. And that's a hard thing to do. So, that's what I think one of our tasks is, is a gentleman nap in him, Stephen Mock, and he's doing a great job with adapting AI to the CRN modules. It's at Commerce 7, some of the big platforms, to help people understand that pinpoint targeting to get a response. - There's more? - Yes. So he calls me, he consults with me. - All right. - And what have you learned from that? - What about GIFs? Well, it's made me think it's, I love it, because it makes me think like you and I, we kind of have to rotate our access. Like you have to teach wineries about these products here to augment their business and rotate your perspective on a perspective what I used to. It's tough. - I mean, that's what I love about. What was it in Napa? Was it in California? - Napa, yeah. - Yeah, I mean, I mean, US, used to lead the world and inspire all of us. And definitely, new things were coming from US and California was absolutely at the peak of it. And I'm glad to hear that. There's new thinking there. I want to go back and see what you guys are doing. - Yeah, I'll introduce you to him. I think you'd love talking to him, he's a really young man. It's not a wine guy. He's a dead guy like you. - He doesn't have to be. - He came from, no, you don't have to be. - No, no, no. - You know what, the first one unicorn is called Vivino. You know Vivino, everybody knows Vivino. That's the app, everybody wants. The guy, interviewing my met in, is a friend, A. Hyne, is coming from Ferro Island. This is a small island in the middle of the Atlantic. And there's no wine. Is a day, no, he's living in Denmark. There's no wine culture there, but there was a need. - Yes. - Oh, to select the bottle of wine. Then he created Vivino, which is the wine shazam. Now, taking a picture, boom, get the answer. And today, Vivino is the first wine tech unicorn in the world, they're making more than $300 million revenue per year. Boom, and he's not coming from the wine. That he was not afraid. He has no kind of preconceived ideas. He had studied from a blank page. - I haven't brought him to solve. - Well, something in my opinion, that could have easily failed as fast as it grew. So he had to understand the cusp of data and technology in order to make sure people use it. Because I tell you, they would walk into my wine shop and they'd look at a wine and then they'd point Vivino at it. - What are they doing? - They would look at the price in the rating. - They knew more than on the wine than you. - I'd like to slap their hand. (laughing) Talk to me. (laughs) So how about the future for LA Wine Tick? What's on your plans, what's on the horizon, and how fluid does it have to be in order to make sure you're on the cusp? - I think the great new things will be AI-based solution. Even though, you know, when you're talking about startup world, AI is a buzzword that everybody needs to have on his speech, definitely the benefits, the gains of what AI could bring in terms of revenue increase, saving time is so massive that there's no way to ignore it. Definitely. Quantic computing will come in a year to accelerate that, but the solutions will come from the base AI technology. We see already that a lot. So which one is the bet, the one you should bet on to invest? I will not tell you. - Yeah, I'm talking about. Everyone, 20 companies here, do your homework, look at that, innovation is strong, it's coming from there, and most of the guys are coming from outside of the Wine World. - Isn't that one of the problems with emerging technologies as you saw at Apple, where do you hang your hat on which technology you're going to hang your hat on because some are going to fail, just like the dot-com thing, some are going to fail. And it's what you're using and make sure you've bet that out, right, that you-- - I have a different opinion on that. Failing internet, everybody's saying internet is going to fail. Internet now is there everywhere. The wheat has transformed in something different because now it's information, it's social network, we don't talk about internet as such, but we're using internet as technology. Remember two years ago, it was all about blockchain and NFT. - Right. - Big hype and everybody-- - Yeah, what happened to that? - What happened to that? Today, in the Wine World, an NFT is called a digital passport. So this is the evidence that the one you're drinking is coming from that location as this traceability is a real wine. - Yes. - It was, so it's kind of the identity, the digital identity of the wine. We don't call it NFT in a long time. Nobody cares about the technology behind it. - But is that functional still? I have not heard much about that whole-- The idea is a winery ship to wine directly to the NFT, whatever you want to use today. The provenance of that wine is guaranteed based on the blockchain. - Yep. - Okay. - But once you take possession of that wine, that blockchain's broken, but until you take possession-- - So functional? - Is that really functional? - It's functional for certain, this user case, where for certain types of wine. The one that the price usually goes up-- - Yes. - Number one, the one that we're the last to-- - And yeah, we have some that as well, some burgundy wines, and just crazy pricing. - And I think for people today to trust that what they have in their glass is not toxic, is coming from that location. I mean, usually you ask a glass of red wine, a chardonnay, or whatever type of grape in the restaurant, they bring you a glass, and there's nothing written on it. - Yeah. - Are you trust that? - Yeah, that's a good point. - Oh, I'm a strong trust. - You can't trust it. - Absolutely, you can't trust it. - And if you're a super champion, you can distinguish a chardonnay and a Sauvignon, but not everybody can do that. - No, most of them. - And why don't we have something simple to create a better experience? A piece of paper at the feet of the glass wears a QR code with the name of the wine. Just certifying this is, you wanted a chardonnay, you have a chardonnay, and this is made by Paul. And look at scandered code, go to the vineyards, have a look at it, enjoy. - That's a really interesting point. - Simple paper, but connecting to a huge technology, which could be brokechain or something else. - And technology that people are getting much more used to, like already my business card is archaic, 'cause there's no barcode on it. I gotta re-print them all over again, because they're so used to using it. One barcode came out, and I had them on my bottles of wine, as a source of traffic to the website. They were hardly used. - And now? - But I was still doing it. I think I'd be losing market share if I didn't use them, because they're so common today. And I suppose that's part of the irony of what we're into is like, do we, I think that's a really good example what you just said. How a restaurant tour can use the technology to augment sales, because most restaurant tours, they're-- - And then nuts again. - Their sales are, I talked to a guy in LA, his bottle sales are off 40%. Without the commensurate cocktail sales, it's just bottle sales are off. And I said, well, how about, and this is another example, we're almost done here anyway, so. But I said, how about your server? What do they know? He goes, oh, they don't know shit. - Server, I mean, people are selling the wine. - Yeah, I said, well, what do you think's gonna happen? - That's without, but that's a bottleneck, definitely. So how do you connect first to what the person's, there's no summary in every restaurant, we know that. But, and that's maybe a problem because they don't sell wine. So how do we simplify that? - I will connect you one of the great summary we have here. We managed to do a work on short, very short selection of wines, but we're just rotating. And for each of the meal you have on the menu, they propose a wine. So the attach rate is 1.7, 25% of glass of wine attached to the medium you connect it. You want to be great at T-bone and fantastic cabana, bad from Manapa with it, works well. So you don't have to be a summary to know that. Someone will be the way for you, it's on the menu, and you trust it and you know what, it works. So that's maybe a way to kind of go around, I'll get the right people trained in the restaurant to do that. That's one example, which was very simple. On the flip side of that, in Wehrm Palermo last year, and that was, he was Slavic, either Serbian or Slavic. It was the best inspiring wine service I've ever had in the room. And I pulled him aside, he's a big guy. I gave him a tip, I said, I want you to know that even the novice wine drinker would be inspired by watching you relish and-- I want to know everything. What's the other issue? I want to go there, I want to see that. Yeah, I'll tell you that in the restaurant. And I just thought, you've really performed because there are the other Psalms who just do what you say. They make it an aristocratic, and I know and you don't, and that's a problem, come on. But you need to have trained servers to help with the experience of the food, because they're foodies too, this generation of their foodies. My kids, you know, the thing about the millennials, they'll wrap this up. The thing about the millennials was, they would have rather spent the $100 a piece on sushi, than save for that Mustang or that car they wanted. That's, I saved for the Mustang, I can care less about sushi. But my grand, my daughter's all three of them, would rather go to dinner and spend a lot of money, than worry about saving for their car. It's all about leaving things random and owning things. And this is where we have, with wine, we have something to play there, right? Because we can bring in motion experience. Totally. How to do that? So Xavier Trizai is the name of the sommelier, best sommelier in France and in Europe, who made that simplified kind of recipe, three meals, three wine attached to it, QA code, boom, you know about it. And that was fantastic. He was the sommelier at the Ritz, is the sommelier chef for air friends, selecting the wines. So it knows about wine. And he knows how to simplify and simplify. Think about Apple was all that simplifying it, hiding the complexity to make a great experience. So guys, we should learn from Apple more and more. I watched Stephen Jobs recently, when he was talking about the blackberry. Yeah. Like nobody wants a keyboard. Yeah. Right? We're going to get rid of the keyboard. And that must have been shocking to the industry of tech. Anyway, we're out of time. I hope we solved a couple of problems while we're here today together. And I'm looking forward to the rest of the week here. I know it's really fun. And I'm going to send you off some videos of stuff that I'm playing with with the AI. So you can see what potentially a winery could do to display the experience. I'll send you a QR code for the download of the white paper. It's in English as well. OK. Of these AI and wine. You'll see there's these 12 solutions right away available. Yeah, thank you. But I can read it. Oh, you're welcome. OK. We'll talk about it next time. Thank you. Thank you. Oh, Chantaine, thank you very much. Oh, yeah.