From Vibes to Workflows: How AI Is Rewiring Modern Marketing

They are here to be productive, creative, but they don't want to prompt all that stuff, find which model, like which model do you use? Oh, yeah. Oh, Kling is great for skin, Vio is great for product. So long story short, we believe at the brief that we can have an environment where you can basically create things, integrate all the models, pick the ones that are best for specific use cases. And do this intelligence on top of AI, welcome to the talking AI podcast, but we talk AI with both experts in the field and early adopters. I'm your host, Matt Page, and we're here to demystify AI for you so you can get some value from it. Let's talk some AI. AI is unlocked insane creative power. We get text images videos all generated in seconds, but for most marketers, it still feels disconnected, a bit random and frankly overwhelming. In my guest today, Teebo Imbrith, chief product officer and growth officer at the brief wants to unify that and he's led growth at Adobe and GitHub. So he's seen a lot instead of for receipt toward AI marketing workflows are heading in this new age that we're in. So we're talking about vibe marketing and how to turn what feels like a random act of vibes into a repeatable end and workflow, but welcome to talking AI. Yeah. Thanks for having most excited to be here. Yeah. This is going to be a good conversation. We have not hit the vibe marketing topic yet. We've done a lot of the vibe coding, a lot of the tools on agents and everything and that comes into play here too, but I'm curious like. Just like vibe marketing, the vibe coding, the term vibe marketing means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. How do you define it? How do you think about this movement that's happening? So as a developer myself, I think I do vibe code and I think vibe code is real and there's it's just super interesting to see what's happened with code generation and I think what's happened what's going to happen is we're going to see the same disruption that's happened with code generation, happy with marketing. Because and I when I worked at GitHub on co pilot when we realize that Lens can generate all their risky using text token and they can generate code that's the first thing that happened like the first disruption and wave of innovation has been code gen because it's an extension is just a conversation code is text. The next thing going to happen is the models the video image models are getting close to perfection to generate image or I would generate anything with AI for let's say a person or a product placement six to nine months ago or a year ago, you would have been like this is AI slop this doesn't look good. Now it's getting harder and in some cases is going to look perfect. So I think what's happening is just a question of time and developers that now at the brief everyone uses cursor to write code and supplement their kind of their brain. The same thing is going to happen with with marketing now the thing that's different is that developers to get supported to generate something you can have a conversation and you can ask with marketing you can do it but with marketing when it comes to generating something visual. It's harder to express it with words when you want a concept to be you say hey I want you to fix this function I want you to grab this call this API do this and fix my SSO talk whatever you asking code. It's pretty simple it's pretty natural but when you want to express that you want a kind of like a diffuse background or you want something of like vector style or you want some. You have to be a professional designer to express that to the element. So that's why the first thing that we're seeing is that a lot of marketers say I don't want to prompt. And not just marketers a lot of designers that we've talked to the briefing customers or prospects tell us yeah of course I prom but I don't want to because it's I have to and I do but can you actually help me not having to prompt. I do think that by marketing for me is designing things at the speed of thought designing things so that you can just express something show something. And I do believe in show rather than tell for designing because I'm sure it's the same thing you've seen in your life when you don't know how to design and you want someone to design something. What do you do 90 99% of people will say I want something like that I want something that looks like this you know you're going to go on Pinterest you're going to save something you're going to say oh I saw this logo I took a picture of this shop I really like it can you design a logo for me like this. Very few humans are going to be like I want something like Russian 1944 style like a vector bay whatever type of designer you can think of that's just not how people most people want to design except if you are a professional designer but even as a professional designer and since the marketer I think the power of light marketing is you just show you bring a bunch of images and you say. Give me something like that and it starts joining something and you say yeah but they get more like this and it's generate and then you start just like sculpture creating something except that in the past you had to know Photoshop. Quick break in the pod our state of AI 2026 report just dropped and it breaks down what actually is changing in AI what's hype and what leaders need to be paying attention to this year you can grab it right now on our show notes or at half torx.com. And now you don't need to know photoshop it's you give me about 10 rabbit holes I want to jump down but that's a really interesting point there and I do believe it's like the experts with AI have the most power to do amazing things but it's that's such a nuanced point there because I experience this too like I want some type of designer thing but not knowing how to describe it in terms of how the LLM is going to understand that is a gap and to your point if I can. And to your point if I can just show like this thing with the mix of this is the ton of value in that I think what's interesting to have noticed with marketers a you can do so much more so much quicker but while we're on the topic of five five coding as well even seems some marketers starting to do really cool campaigns with like vibe coded things yeah and which they never would have been able to do before unless they could have bribed one of their developer friends on the team and it's like bottom of their. Yeah backlog so it's like this new nuanced tool that these teams have to create really unique and compelling experiences on top of just the standard copy visual video ads all of these different things. The lines are blurred then the product designers on my team write some code the designers are able to now get to almost working prototypes that they ask designers to review would integrate. We have sales people on our team that generate websites for outbound they generate the website with lovable and they're like yeah and they put some ads and I use that as a presentation. And so the lines are blurred and I think that that amazing with the eyes that it's just lowering the barrier to entry for humanity to so many things. Love will get created a new category with what they did and so yeah it's fascinating. And back to your point of reference having that lovable prototype is just again something you can reference to. I was looking back the other day they turned one I guess and say it officially became lovable. I've created a hundred different things yeah I've got it after but I have to go back to the point you mentioned earlier mentioned get hub co pilots and so you were there when that product came out and I believe you were leading or in some form on the growth side. What was that like seeing this totally new thing emerge yeah like and just marketing this totally new way of working with like unique experiences from that time. In I'll tell you I got to be honest like yes I was working on the marketing and growth side but that that genius because if you look if you listen to cursor and the founder. That's when they saw what was possible with co pilot that they were like oh we got to create something because there's and it's but back then in the team that started that it started really as a very kind of like skunkworks project that few people knew in the company. And then to be honest with you at the beginning I thought that was really cool. But I and I won't speak for the product team because they had the vision to to build that to and that's when Nat Friedman was the CEO working with Microsoft Nassatya made that investment there was just a lot of foresight in that decision yeah and we the team worked on it for if I'm not mistaken like prop one or two years in their in their garage. I've been in many company it's so hard to stay focused like being able to just we're going to do this and we're going to work on it for a year and a half two years and it's going to be awesome and they did that it changed the industry and I'll be honest I thought that was awesome but I didn't anticipate that it would change an entire industry like now. Like Copilot code generation is almost like yeah of course we started it was you write some comments and it generates the line of code or no few lines and now it basically reviews your code works in the terminal it's crazy. We've seen the same evolution on the marketing side to used to be okay write this ad copy for me and it's very one to one interaction with chat GPT but to your point it's completely evolving. You have videos that just are indistinguishable from reality to your point though it still feels random and I think the point you mentioned earlier was going from just having a single prompt box. And then the other thing to I experience this working with this tool in that tool and okay I'm going to take you know what I've got from chat GPT over into. I want to create a I like the style of the image image journey so I'm going to do that and then feed this over here and I think this is what y'all are building in a sense at the brief is something more cohesive so where do you see that evolving and that could be what you have today the brief or even into the future in terms of these like workflows and processes that are starting to be established. So and I can show you in a second a quick demo but you're absolutely right if you watch any video from a on YouTube on kind of AI marketers where they show you how to use things. These folks have five tabs open or six or seven ten accounts on fallout AI and three pick and whatever and figma and jump between it like okay so I'm going to go and create a prompt so let's upload that picture in chat GPT and let's generate a prompt let's copy that now we're going to put that in that spreadsheet now I'm going to go to fall out AI we're going to generate a video we're going to try six times did and you're like if you are a nerd you enjoy the craft of that like a developer. But marketers they are here to be productive creative but they don't want to prompt all that stuff find which model like which model you use. Oh yeah. Oh cling is great for skin video is great for product so long story short we believe at the brief that we can have an environment where you can basically create things integrate all the models. Pick the ones that are best for specific use cases and do this intelligence on top of AI where if all you're doing as a product is exposing a model and a prompt window then Gemini can do that you're not adding value. But what we do at the brief is we and I'm going to share my screen. Can you see this. Yes we can all right we have this for instance this canvas that's multiplayer where you can share that with your team. You can generate things here with this this prompt and you can basically do vibe marketing so I can select that element select some text. And for those that are like just listening right now like we're looking at this it's I would equate it's like a mirror style to your point canvas and we have these different images and prompt boxes and things like that. And now you're generating something off of this prompt in relation to one of the images to describe it for this audio only as well. I can select anything on that infinite canvas can generate things and as it's generating I can show you what it's built so here I have for instance I just ask to put these piece of clothes on these models. And I did that in look at the quality and if we were to describe this for the people that are listening can don't have that it's like it looks like a professional photo shooting. That happened in few seconds I can change anything I can say change the position of the body make it add have her know where some sunglasses if I want to resize. Which is the plague of any designer hey can you create can you resize it's not broke we can just do that so you can just resize. But then if you want to introduce if you want to introduce new elements such as ingredients I want to add a little doggy I can just select that dog and say add a dog to the scene. And then you have that and now the thing that we built on top of this is what we think is really valuable is that if you want to turn this into a video. Here's how you need to do it today you're going to need to generate a prompt so most people and I don't think prompt is the end of the road people will struggle to even what is the prompt I will use to create a video people have no clue. So let's imagine also you need to go to judge it and do that you can just click here remix you can say image to video and we will analyze your image understand that it's December understand that this is a photo shooting and we will propose some effects so that you don't need to prompt you will just click on the effect I'm going to say gentle let's say motions sway or floating and I will generate that video. And that's it. Because the video prompts are very nuanced right there they're very neurons they're very much approach to how you prompt are exactly and the models. What we've seen is that they work better the technology is not perfectly so if you go with a movement that's extremely strong you're going to see hallucination but what we do is we actually specifically ask for things that are more subtle. So that it's more likely to succeed and look natural and be something that you would want to use for such a campaign. And if you wanted to generate more variation instead of coming here putting a problem that says hey add some plants in the back or whatever and enhance your prompt you can just click on the image generate variation say very subtle or strong and then you will generate variations automatically. And that's the cool thing too because I feel like it would need about this is like you can almost use AI has another creative partner so I think a lot of people they're in this mode of OK I have to tell AI exactly I got to dictate exactly what I need to do. But sometimes you can almost let it go down it's randomness which will then like bring up another idea in your head which will be like oh that I didn't thought of that as like a campaign or a concept. I think that's an under just utilized way of leveraging AI and it's elevating it to this like status of a thought partner in a sense exactly and so just one last example like this is an example with one of our customer. Yes, but these chocolates chocolate say yes chocolate said us who doesn't like chocolate we're so proud to have lint as a customer and they use AI and look like like look at the quality of this the scene is just insane text is now possible with image models and you want to generate 20 variations of that you can just click generate variation and and it's done and it took me. 10 seconds to generate these and and so that is by marketing that's the power of really integrating that technology to the tool that understands the marketers work. It is a big point there to on the lense side is a lot of the stuff you see out there on YouTube what not it's very cool but if you're talking about a real brand like that yes the consistency of their product in the ad is a non starter if it's not consistent. And what you just showed like it was like the exact same chocolate saying it right so there's no variation there when you don't want variation which is critical for large brands. Now I wanted to say there's a lot of cool demos with AI that are acceptable when you are an SMB and you have you don't have the same reach and brand but for a lint or a AstraZeneca or some other like customers we have. They need precise fidelity they say no the logo has to be eight eight pixel to the left here this is the font that we use. So the image models are not there yet to be able to create something with the exact font the exact placement maybe we'll get there in the meantime having this editor that we have where on the canvas you can also open an editor. Put your blanket put your logo things so that you can have access to that that control is very important just like in cursor. You can decide to go agenteic and have it generate stuff at any time you can say hold on and you're going to start coding manually for two hours. Yeah totally I'm sure you've heard of this example recently or maybe you have a Coca-Cola they put out an ad recently is a video ad and they talked about needing 70,000 props going into it. And a lot of people were using this is like validation that oh it's not there yet the models aren't there yet the quality it's still AI slopping all that. In my mind and I'm sure you see them to like the creators that have really learned this craft yes they're doing insanely amazing things we had much less in terms of problems I don't know what model they were using that may have been a limiting factor as well. But curious your thoughts on that I think there is it's a gap in the approach you take and then obviously the model under the hood that you're leveraging for the specific use case. Yeah, so let's be real the video models for instance right so VO 3.1 was a huge improvement but back in the first version of the even VO 3 you had a failure rate that was I can't remember but basically you would take you still like a few times a few like attempts to get the result that you want so there's enough like an error rate that used to be higher now it's getting better and better. So there's that the second thing is prompting and which tools it takes it takes a lot of work what's interesting and I'm curious your thoughts I was thinking of I think a thinking of an analogy I do think what this reminds me is I remember when I started back in 2006 to eight when the iPhone launch there was a. Search basically the developers the iPhone developers were the king of the world if you knew objective C at that time when the iPhone when mobile became a thing when people realize that they could have actually the weapon on the pocket pocket. I don't have to remember but like mobile developers mobile app like it was huge and you if you had that scale you had a huge advantage and then later objective C was replaced with Swift but the people that have that learn that stuff back then had a huge advantage and you can see a lot of these people that started then became sometimes founders or started companies or like they they had. Some level of insight they did just knew how to create application and businesses on where people are going to be spending most of their time today and I think the same things happening right now if you know what the models how they work if you even if you use a lot of manual things people will want. Tools that help them do things faster but that way of thinking of how you construct things how you use the models together how you use agents to supercharge your productivity I do think the people that are that have learned that right now are going to have a huge edge in the next five to 10 years. Yeah I totally agree with you I think it's I always go back to the Shopify CEO's leaked memo that he just put out there and he says AI generative AI is just too unlike anything else and the best way to get good at it is simply by using it a lot yeah it is those people that are experimenting using a lot because they they understand the nuance of working with the thing. And they're also the best people position to create these products and experiences to make things easier but also adapt things as in evolves completely yeah I agree with you and I think another interesting thing I see this on my team. Where especially in the marketing realm people had very specific skill sets this is my copywriter this is my designer right video for whatever it is but I'm seeing this. This blending of skill sets to where there's a lot of overlap but it's in a good way because now my designer can like propose copy related to something in my copywriter can propose image idea there's this overlap that creates this new interaction experience between them and a they just move a lot faster but they're able to I think communicate. What they're thinking in a more nuanced passion 100 years later if you receive it yeah yeah you remind me of at Adobe the founders the co-founders were knocking yeshki they had this quote in the sf office where they say good at his come from everywhere and I think it's awesome it's a really beautiful principle because it is inclusive of people contributing and like you said you historically with prevented a copywriter to design something wasn't their creativity it was just the fact they didn't know the shortcuts in Photoshop or Figma and so we prevented like a lot of people to constitute humanity to contribute to conversation because they didn't have the skills and so I think that's the thing that's the most awesome with AI you have this dentist that's using to create apps for can we move the story but I thought that's just awesome lovable has created new category with like people like I can do this and same thing in marketing teams the copywriter might have some really cool ideas but they were never able to express them and now they can. Yeah totally and I'm curious one thing I think that's really unique and interesting about your product is you have one of those products that gets better as the models get better which I think is a huge indicator of your product gets completely overtaken once the models get good you're in a bad position right but yours is uniquely suited nano banana pro coming out via 3.1. And the competition just fear so just they keep getting markedly better what do you think we're going to be in like say a year from now because I feel like each new iteration is just very impressive where do you see the biggest gaps that we're going to see solved in the next near term future. I think the so I think on on on the let's start with so first yet enough like amazing to build in fly the plane as you're replacing Angie every two month and so amazing and there was this interview from the the CEO from what was the name of this company they were compared to cursor they got acquired by the Devon. What was the name of our windsurf thank you the CEO windsurf was interviewed by why commentator and he said something like you have to be comfortable building a product that's 90% 80% done and 20% is still not working because the models are not there so it's super interesting into implications for product development on where it's going I think for image models. The thing that is still not perfect but nano banana pro got very close and I think right now. For the marketing standpoint overall is the best model is text so text rendering for instance for lint very important you cannot have the chocolate with not the right lint logo on the chocolate. They even have lint engraved in the chocolate chunk the pieces nano banana pros able to do that today that's impressive so I think the next version of nano banana pro I think will probably crack that and be perfect with tax in all scenarios I think they're getting really close so I do think in six months a year. Text packaging and all that correct it's working it's going to be incredible for for ecom and retail in these companies to integrate these models and product like ours in their workflow for video models. I think the thing that's not solved yet but it getting closer and closer with the three one clean also really a new model recently it's going to be character consistency I think in six months most models will be there what does that mean for some of the listeners that. Maybe didn't go through that pain when you're generating three four five videos because you want to generate something long for today the limitation is 10 seconds eight seconds but you cannot tell an AI video model to generate a clip of five minutes. So you need and who that you need to think like a producer you need to generate sequences and stitch them together know when you do that it takes too much work still to create consistency across the chapters and now it's getting better and better so I do think we're going to be there and in the brief we're going to be integrating a feature called storyboard where you'll be able from this canvas I showed to actually create your scenes consistency across the chapters generate a full video. And we've generally fully full blown commercials with logos text overlay 100% with AI with for the rest one two minute video clips and you look at them and you're like oh my god if I were to show this to anyone in my family they wouldn't notice it's actually all AI. Yeah, that's why I think you hit on it to like the shortness of what you can produce isn't actually the limit or it is the consistency should look at any standard commercial or thing like that like it does progress and the scenes change and things like that but if it's not consistent and it's exactly non starter let me ask you I got a few questions to wrap us up now think of it maybe a bit of a rapid fire. But as I'm a VP of marketing listening what's the first pilot you're running in the next 30 days say this is not part of their suite of things they're doing today in terms of AI generated imagery video campaigns things like that where do they start. It's a good question like how do they learn or which workflow would they should they enable with AI. Yeah, more of the workflow side what's the good logical starting point for them if I think you're meaning into this I think it depends on where you depending on like your business but I would say if you're if I was the KVP of marketing at any company and I'm doing the man general that in SEO I would totally be automating the creation of the landing pages all the SEO landing pages and all of these things are too lovable or cursor whatever engine you want to use so that it would basically generate all the copy all the things that I need of course there would be a human in the loop to review what I would completely automate all of the generation of my landing pages with SEO for SEO, I would probably also automate a lot of my outbound and a lot of the things that you would do manually today with an SDR and things that I would just automate all of that stuff with AI. If I'm in a VP of marketing in e-commerce I would definitely be looking at using product photography to completely know ravish lines of the cost of operations my photo shooting if you think about any company that's doing photoshoots it's immense the amount of the cost flying people budget time. Maybe testing like this is such an amazing opportunity so I would look at okay how do we start using AI on our website on our ads for product listing for commercials you've seen even brands though it backfired because it was early I think it was guess that started doing an AI on Vogue or magazine where they have a model and people are like oh that's bad but you also see mango recently putting for clothing. Their models generally with AI and they actually add a little image said generally with AI I'm one of the believer that I don't think people just leave care if it's AI or not if the product looks good and the proportions are correct and all that who cares so I think that for e-commerce clothing. The product photography know that it's just a revolution that's happening so some ideas if I will doing marketing these companies these are such a thing I'd probably be would be on my radar. Yeah, what's this thing go all presses get press or something to that effect but there's two groups right there's the group of those using professional photoshoots today and those that just aren't because they don't have the budget right in both can now leverage this in a meaningful way. So in two years what will marketers spend 50% less time doing and what will they spend more time doing and change it to six months one year whatever but where does the differentiated value of the marketer still stay with the marketer versus they're just outsourcing to AI that's. It's a great question I remember I interviewed someone when I was at Pixar and we started working on AI as well and it's like automation and all that and. He was leading a large team of the marketing team and he started the meeting and we were doing a discovery call on research kind of print points about AI what AI could do and he said I'll always remember can you automate all the stuff that I hate doing. And he was saying as a marketer in I'm extrapolating but what I run from that comment and what we discussed in the meeting he was like I want to spend I want my team to spend time on the creative ideas. And he explained to me like in my team and most marketing teams the 80% 70% is recycling creating variations of an existing campaign that performs well and any plateau the diminishing return and you need to break that ceiling with a new concept. I do think to answer your question in a few years and already now it's happening people are starting to move to the robots give to the robots what humans don't want to do. And what do humans don't like doing they don't like doing the same thing over and over that's not creative no single person that I've talked to as a person said oh what I love doing tibo is resizing banners. I just love that like creating all the 16 version of my banners for tick tock and Instagram and then do oh yeah I love generating captions that's so so awesome. No localization a lot so I do think the beautiful thing with AR is that it's going to recalibrate move this time that was sucked by the manual like the boring monkey work. It's going to give that to the robots resize localize created different background human and where the human is going to shine and play is. Up to tune in telling the AI to go in a specific direction because creativity will still be human these models are not creative they're amazing operational eyes and executioner but they're not creative they just produce what they've seen. So I think I dream of that of like basically yeah in a few years people will say oh yeah all of that stuff it's not automated. And most of my team's time is really focused on the things that AI still can do is the true proper creativity. Yeah and I think to like the models in the output feels very creative I feel like it's a reflection of the person using and working with AI yeah sense right because that's a huge piece of it so it's almost amplifying it's based on the user using it in a sense yeah to a certain degree. And last question for you so you've done growth at Adobe GitHub is amazing companies but what's one belief you had that AI has forced you to change. The evolution the introduction of generative AI in a sense. Wow so you're saying one thing that I was surprised by or something that I didn't anticipate with that or something yeah it's just maybe a traditional. Yeah I thought that you had maybe a principle you had in your mind right maybe felt first principle in a sense and it could be growth marketing either side of it. I evolved your thinking as a developer myself that turn designer and I'm able to design things and figure out Photoshop or encode. I used to believe that most people like craft and the process of creating. Yeah but the reality is that today people want to get things done. And so I realized that and I remember at Pixar at my CEO it would tell me he was right he would say you're too professional you think that people love to be able to. Get into the detail make sure everything is aligned a lot yes that's true but basically what I'm trying to say is that if you give something that is extremely efficient fast and gives good quality people don't really want to spend the time doing these things they want to use that time somewhere else except if you are an artist. And so it's like developers will always want to write code in certain way but most if you give them like most of the code has been written. Do you really need to reinvent the wheel here yes for the people that will create new models or new technology but for the most part people just want to assemble. Blocks together so I think we're moving into a world it's not programming is flow-gramming I think it's like people assembling these things together with n8n that's I think it's not amazing. And I think the same is we're building same for Mark being with the brief like people assembling things and saying yeah I want these things to to look like that and I want you to create variation. And then you know more time for drinking a coffee with your friends or building legos with your kids. Yeah flow-gramming we're going to make that the term in 2026 but just the last thing here the this reminds me like what you're just talking about. Andrew in G super famous in the AI world one of the godfathers of AI in a sense of today's modern terms but he said this quote he said. Working with generative AI in the coding process makes coding more enjoyable is a really unique word enjoyable and you just says you'll never go back and I think there's translations to that for marketers as well because you get to focus more on the creative in less of the sentence. Totally in a sense but you as a developer are you hands on keyboard still with cursor and in the brief or you allow the developers on the team to. So it's your yeah you're talking about this because I posted something on LinkedIn recently where I had this break through a humble or milestone moment where I've been a PM for now almost 15 years. And I never had shipped a feature myself. Because I didn't have the keys and I didn't have the interesting of the code base a lot this year I shipped a few features there's a few features I showed you here that I coded. And and I was like whoa and in the engineers were like that's cool and I was like you cool with that and they were like yeah I reviewed it I fixed this and that but that's cool and what I realize is that. They're really happy to have me contribute to things so that they can focus on other things yes I'm using cursor and I enjoy focusing more on the creativity of the feature itself rather than understanding the code base for three hours. Now there are limits to my coding and I do think ultimately I don't I use cursor to generates snippets that I integrate because I need to understand what code is being generated because I need to be able to maintain things. And I'm sure it's something that many companies are seeing okay you're checking in 300 like files here do you understand what all that stuff does and I'm sure a lot of you know no. So I think there's going to be a recalibration in companies the process but yeah I'm able to ship features and for me I wrote even books in programming. I do enjoy a computer science part but like my son is learned I teach him had to code and he needs to understand the principles but yes it definitely makes coding much more fun because I think the core of programming you don't really need to. You need to understand how technology works but you need to necessarily need to know an entire language I don't think so it was yesterday I built this thing with 3.js and using my camera to where I can move my hands and it would adjust these particles some viral things are recreated it's just like mind blowing I can even. Do that now but yeah thank you so much for talking to me I working people find the brief awesome products like yeah the brief the brief dot AI check it out there's a trial and if you love you can even subscribe and there's free credits with the trial so it's the brief dot AI I hope your listeners into the chat and then they can check it out to show their team we're moving fast and shipping new features every week. So we'd love to have your audience check it out awesome thank you TV of course thank you. Thanks for listening to the talking AI podcast enjoy the show give us a follow or subscribe on the podcast. And don't forget to leave us a review. We love you. For more info on talking AI business talking AI podcast dot com. The single biggest mistake we see companies make with AI is they don't properly train their teams we see it all the time companies roll out AI tools and expect people to just figure it out but using AI effectively requires a totally different mindset and skill set. And that's exactly why we built training for every level of your ore from AI training for teams and executives to training engineering teams on our generative driven development methodology. Or if you've already identified your AI use cases and want to just prioritize where to start we offer an AI roadmap and ROI workshop to help you build a quick plan. It's all about going from we should use AI to actually driving real value with it head over to hatchworks.com to learn more.