From the Apollo to Padres Ownership: Kwanza Jones on Wealth and Purpose

This is expeditiously, I am too, T.I.A. Uh-huh. Now, the following experience is not a test. The conversations and stories expressed on this podcast are meant to be an expression of purpose and truth. This show, probably a type of expeditiously, is a free exchange of ideas and opinions. No judgment, no preconceived beliefs, no fear. You're encouraged to share your thoughts and ask any question as long as it's done with respect. And ask through true love and respect for others that we would change the world and speak truth to power once you're at a time. Now without further ado, this is expeditiously. I'm T.I.A.A. I'm T.I.A. And I'm your host of expeditiously. I guess today is an extraordinary one. And the proof that you don't have to stay in one lane to build an extraordinary career. Now, she started in music where she carved out a lane and a name for herself as a recording artist and performer, even taking the stage at the legendary venue Apollo, the Apollo Theater in Harlem. That's going to be a part of the story later. So remember that. Now, she quickly expanded her path becoming an entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist with focus built on building businesses and supporting ideas that create real world impact. Today, she's known for blending creativity with strategy and passion with purpose. And if that weren't enough, she's also part of the ownership group of the San Diego Padre, which is a historical move. Her stepping into the world of professional sports and continuing to push boundaries in every direction she moves. Her story is about evolution, reinvention, and never being afraid to think bigger than the box you're putting. Please welcome to expeditiously, Kwan Zajone. What's happening? Hey, hey, hey, how are you? How's it going? I'm just going to make sure this mic is ready to be. Make sure what it needs to do. Make sure we can hear you. Because my father always said, "Make sure we walk into a room. You can be heard." You know what I'm saying? Here we go. That's what happens. Well, Ms. Jones, how did we get here? Oh, well, way back in the day. What was your dream as a young Kwanza? What was your dream? Young Kwanza. You know, there's something that I say always and it's to that I'm super charred. Don't doubt it, just believe it. So my dream has always been to step into always learning and growing and understanding the power that you have. So, young Kwanza did a number of things. Met heads of states and presidents of so many different countries that used to be on the board of education. When I was a student in Washington, DC, young Kwanza just did a lot of things. I ran a crack. Okay. I performed with the Apollo. Okay. I was a kid. Not as a kid. Actually, by then it was. So by then I'll call that college Kwanza. Okay. That was when I by the time I got to Princeton. But my dream was always just the impact. What did you do? Did you just, did you just breathe by Princeton? Why do you do that now? Because some people were caught up on degrees and names and what you have behind your name in terms of those letters. For me, life is about learning. Right. And you can learn from so many different things. And it doesn't have to be no shade to Princeton. I love Princeton. And my husband at Princeton, one of my sisters went to Princeton. So I've got deep love. They're dorms named after me at Princeton. Okay. Yes. First time in over 250 years. That there are dorms named after one after me. Kwanza Jones and one of my husband. I'll say at Princeton. Every time I have black and brown folks. Amazing. So what was your earliest inspiration? I will say. And I don't even know if it was inspiration as much as it was. Training. Okay. Which my parents who are both lawyers and my dad rest in peace and power. Always said that you can't live just for you. That was my inspiration is understanding that life is not about you. It's about how and who you do like with. And that means you are part of a community. That means you have a responsibility to the community and communities that you are part of. So I will say and I know a lot of folks oftentimes say it's their families. It really was. It was family for me. Was an inspiration and understanding that. There's a phrase to whom much is given. And I say nothing was given to me. It's all right. Because our parents are like, no. You want something? You're going to go get the paper route back when they were papers. Right now. So you had a paper. Oh, yes. And that was your first job. Yes. A paper. A paper route. Oh, it did that for a couple of years with all the dogs chasing me. And it was in DC. And DC. Okay. And it was DC. Oh, exactly. It was DC. It wasn't DMV then. Right. It was DC then. I had a paper out. That was the first job. And I'm one of four kids. Okay. So we all had to. You had to go knock on people's doors and get them to pay you. And people don't want to pay. Right. They want to pay at that time. You had to. They wanted their papers, but they didn't want to pay. And you learned those lessons, the inspiration of learning resilience, the inspiration of also understanding, hey, how did you have to taste the money? But that you have to have fiscal financial responsibility and understand what that is. So that's the entrepreneurship one and understanding growing businesses and knowing that there is not one lane only. That's, that's what they taught. Inspiration was with my parents and that's, but lots of the different nuggets along the way. The paper routes to Princeton. Okay. Wow. That's. That's a healthy journey. Those that's connected. So let me ask you this. Can you tell us the first lesson that you learned about entrepreneurship? Wow. That. You know why I pause is because for me entrepreneurship is about people. It's about people because you have to have people who are going to either consume your idea, consume your product which purchase what it is that you are selling. Right. You have to have people not just as consumers. You have to have people as patrons. You have to have people as believers. You have to have people people as builders and you have to have people as supporters. So there are a lot of times. I'm sure you know where there are a lot of the haters. Sure. There are a lot of the naysayers. Market. There are a lot. Exactly. Exactly. So it doesn't mean you always have to have a lot of people. Uh-huh. You have to have the right. And for me, the lesson as an entrepreneur is always surround yourself with the people. Build the team that is going to be the team that is there for you. It doesn't mean it's easy. It doesn't mean you're always going to agree. And for me, another lesson as an entrepreneur is learn to disagree. Learn to like have people in the room where it's not an echo chamber of just. Okay, yes, whatever you say, whatever you say, whatever you say. Because that's not going to push you and that's not going to challenge you. Right. So that's why I keep taking it back to people. It's people who can help you do that. Right. Well, now. What would you consider your first. Big break as you know, in business. What would you consider the first. The first sign of success that you. Oh, so I'm going to take the first sign of success as a smaller sign of success. Because for me, it was that paper out. It literally was that paper out. And the reason why I say that is. Imagine you have to collect funds from people who feel like they shouldn't have to pay you. Right. Right. But if you don't get paid, then the money is coming from you to the paper. And it was a Washington Post. Okay. Because I grew up in DC. Right. So what happens? Washington Post there. I. They want their money. That's it. Yeah. This was before Bezos. You know, it's just like they want their money. Right. For sure. And if people didn't pay you. Guess who they come from. And how old you when you were demanding payments. Oh, that would be. Indeed. Exactly. That would have been like, we were eight, nine, ten. Wow. Yes. Okay. So it was a little syndicate. I'm just telling it for us. That's right. And the smiles and the hey, not on the door. Didn't do it. We ended up having to write the letters. Go to them and let them know. I think it was just. For me, the big break was. When there came a month. Yeah. And we did not have to come out of our pocket. To pay the Washington Post. Because we collected everything that we needed to collect. Right. From people. And we had to start being really strategic about how we would do that. Which is, okay, we'll pay an advance for multiple months. Okay. Not just one month. So again. Did they get a deal for doing it? Well, yes. Okay. Yes. That's it. Okay. Because again, it's bargaining. It's negotiating. It's compromising. It's understanding psychology. It's understanding human nature. So I'll say that was. That was one of the first big breaks. And I think that's the reason why I try not to talk about the big, big, big things. Like the real estate feels and probably half a billion dollars of real estate feels. Or the. Or various other. Um. Tune to be. MLB approved. If all things go according to plan. Okay. Acquisitions. Is that. It can be overwhelming. For people to think. Wow. I can't achieve this thing because it's always up here. And my theory is. It's about taking that first step. And it's about celebrating those small things, which at the time. about it. When I was that young, that wasn't a small thing to not have to pay for the papers out of your own pocket. That was a big thing. So eight year old closet is like, yes, we collected all the funds. That means we made the money. That means I could go buy this thing that I wanted to buy or save the money or invest the money in other ways. And that next lesson for me is an entrepreneur. Now, that seems very, very coordinated, strategic, very left-brain. So how did you get from there as such a young age to having a creative right-brain approach to your journey? Where did music and performing come from? Now, because the Michael Jackson movie came out a few weeks ago, maybe about two months ago. Okay, two months now. You see, I've been traveling so much. I don't even know what day it is, where I am. I know I'm in ATL. That's right. It's two days. It's two days. And we are here. That is absolutely correct. So the music and the creativity, a couple things. My grandmother used to play piano back in the day when there were movies. But the movies didn't have that. So she would play along to the movies. And she played the piano. Like a child in chat and tight movies. That's exactly it. Because my dad who lived through the Great Depression, lived through the Spanish influenza, which now we know because of COVID for a few years back. And he was in World War II. So my grandmother, some people may think your grandmother won. How long ago was that? It's because my dad had us when he was a little bit older. My dad was quite older when I was born. Yeah, my dad was 50 when I was. My dad was his 60s. Wow. And I was not the youngest. Okay. And he lived to be 97. That's what I'm saying. That's all of that. And that's where I think that right frame, left frame came from. Oh, no, you cannot just do one thing. It was how do you learn? How do you grow? How do you build? So my parents were like, okay, you have this in our family where people, my mother played clarinet. And my uncle was a music teacher. And then I talked about the Michael Jackson movie because my dad's like, okay, there's a Jackson five. It's going to be the Jones four. Oh, man. But daddy. No, that's what it's going to be. His name went Joseph was not at all. But I think for me, the creativity was just growing up in an environment where we were encouraged to explore, encouraged to read, encourage to try different things. And I don't think it's one of those things where some folks can say, Oh, you have these natural talents or you don't. I think everybody can develop creativity. And I don't want it where people feel like, Oh, I have to be an artist or a musician or professionally do this to be a creative. I think some of the most creative folks are in some of these other industries that people don't necessarily think of as creative. And when you bring that left frame and right brain or just what do I call it? Bring that whole brain. You bring all of you to every instance. That's when you start to see these possibilities. And on the bus, we're going to go a little bit later. There's a mirror that I have on the bus. And that's when we get to the empowerment zone. That's called infinite possibility. So for me, infinite possibilities are about, again, what is that wholeness and that expansiveness that is all you? So that's how I brought the creativity. And that's how I started bringing those things. And then, you know, many years later went to the Apollo performance when I was at Princeton and had some Princeton folks there too. So for those who don't know. So you before you was it like amateur night? Or did you come as? Oh, no, not as an artist. It was at amateur night, right? What? You know, where you going to get booed? Yeah. Where they tell you. Oh, I did not see the same man. My goal was not to see the same man. Okay. But only to hear about the same man from other people. Right. That was it. So it was interesting because certain theaters, as you know, if people are being polite, they clap. So just politely, the Apollo is not. No, no, they let you know it's a proven ground. It's instant, it's instant. Gratitude. And it's necessary because that's a training ground. Right. For me, that's where creativity is not about just getting on the stage and singing. It's about getting on the stage and facing whatever fears you may have and understanding that any room you walk into as a stage. Right. Any room you walk into it. Now how did you transition as as a student from Princeton? Yep. Which is who's also an artist? Yep. How did you transition into the world of business and invest? So I never let any of those things go. What I did is imagine someone who's juggling a lot of balls. At some point, you pick another ball or you pick another cone up to juggle. So it's a matter of understanding when is the moment to do that? I ended up which is not what oftentimes artists think of doing. At least artists who are pursuing a career professionally in art and music and acting. Okay. From the beginning, I said that's starving artist concept. I don't buy it to that. Yeah. No, that's just not going to happen. So it isn't because people are like, oh, I've got to do this from my art and that from my art. And I'm like, yes, do all of those things and also understand you have the capacity and the ability to do a little bit more. So just as I was investing in. So you just wasn't going to claim poverty. You weren't going to claim the structure. You better keep going. Exactly. Okay. No, I wasn't. You was going to identify as wealthy regardless. I have nothing more to say because you have said it. And let me tell you about it. I didn't know that it worked. It does work. And let me tell you how it works because people will always say, oh, you're wealthier. You're wealthier. You did this. So like, I'm like, yeah, we may have financial wealth. Right. That's just one type of wealth, of course, because I grew up wealth. I grew up wealthy. I grew up with a wealth of love. I grew up with a wealth of life lessons. I grew up with a wealth of opportunities that we're not given, but that were also created. Right. I grew up with a wealth of people who had belief. I grew up with a wealth of education. So if you come from the concept and the mindset of, I am already wealthy and not not defining wealth as just this one, how many zeros are trailing in your bank account? Right. I talk about this thing that I did. Oh, let me think about this. I was in New York and I did this day off with my husband. We weren't married at the time. I said, okay, and this is where right frame left frame, and I call this, now I call this the billionaire blueprint, which is, I said, we're going to take a day off. I was in law school at the time. Okay. Let's write this down. Okay. Honestly, and I have something on it's either on the website or I can maybe I'm still on the website. It was a number of years ago. I was, I had a talk and I was talking about this is that it's about taking a moment and stopping justice people, like, go in there, like, oh, what do I want to wear? Let me take a moment and pull them out for together. Or, oh, what do I want to eat? Let me take a moment and do that. Oh, what's my, whatever your favorite beverage is. Let me take a moment and go order that. How about you take a moment and say, what am I going to do to take a moment to dream, to take a moment to imagine, to take a moment to have infinite possibilities and believe that I can create what I want. So what I did is I said, we're going to take a day off and he took a day off from work. I took a day off from law school. Well, I haven't not that class is that day. So it made it a little easier for me to take that day off. He took a day off. You just enjoyed your day. Oh, well, you know, I took a day off from studying, which I probably should have been because I was studying, uh, intellectual property with contracts, trademarks, or trademarks, copy rights, things of that sort. Going through that right now. Oh, so you get it? You get it. So took a day off and I said, well, let's imagine, and here's a sketchbook. You can write, you can draw, you can sketch, you can do nothing. You can just paint with your mind and think about instead of asking yourself, how much money do I want to make? Ask yourself, what is the impact I want to make? Because if you ask yourself, what's the impact I want to make? What I would say often is so many people leave so much on the table because you're thinking about, okay, well, I want to make $100,000 or I want to make $10,000, or I want to make a million dollars. For some people, the concept of, oh, I can make $5 million, I can make $10 million, I can make $100 million. It's too big for them to even understand what that really means. Yeah. And sometimes if you're thinking of it only as the numbers, you are leaving things on the table. You're not thinking big enough because you may not even understand how big things actually can be. So if instead you tweak it a little bit and say, there it is. So you tweak and think about, what's the impact I want to make? I read about my let's say that if you're chasing numbers, you'll never be happy because numbers go on infinite. There you go. They do. they did try to chase the vision not the money you know but after that day was taken yes after your husband took it day off yes yes you and to enjoy it with you uh what did that that that that piece of paper look like okay and I actually still have that book okay because you know so the whole book it went just a page well it was a book in a lot of pages we didn't fill up the whole book but we filled up a lot of the pages in the book and what did it look like the first thing so it was the question what do you like okay what are you good at what do you want to do and that series they're like seven questions and for me the most impactful question is what are you willing to do because you can have all of these things that you like or you're good at or you're excited about but if you're not willing to put in the work right then maybe you don't want it or maybe it's just not really what you have deep and I talk about first a purpose and passion and I say you you can't pay for passion right you have it or you don't have it but you can be passionate about something but still not be willing to put in the work to pursue what that passion is okay and then to again not chase it for the numbers but chase it because you're like this is who I am this is what I do and it's what I'm gonna keep on doing so what are the next step of that look like it's like all right so if here's some of the impact we want to make we want to be able to help communities help families do this be able to provide infrastructure for example we're on the bus now here's an example of an infrastructure and a few other things then it also became all right I'm going to invest in but not too much and again this is not investing but people need to understand how you went from dreaming and having the ambition and imagining yourself in these positions yeah from that moment once you answer those questions that led you to take action where first to take an action with investments and I'll give you an example you can go and people think about it as oh how can I invest you can start with $5 $10 $50 and it compounds and you can just say I'm gonna go and do more and more and more but if you don't have it because I also understand some folks don't even have it let's look at what you do have right because oftentimes people will say I don't have this but they're I don't know getting a Starbucks coffee I don't drink coffee so I can say that no shade to Starbucks I have a friend or the board of stars and money on things that you won't rather than money on the things that you need say it right there yeah or you and you also spend money on things that don't pay off long-term that depreciate right as opposed to spending money exactly and not seeing it as how do you invest you are investing in you you're investing in your future you're investing in your financial wealth and most importantly when you start small you are learning how to do it bigger you're building a muscle you're building the habit because if you have lots of folks who haven't grown up in homes or communities or spaces or places where they've had access to this how do you learn how to do it and nobody's gonna teach you how do you learn so to the young people that are learning from your journey what was the first investment that quant made what was what was your first investment I remember it it was like a mutual fund now did I do an individual talk about no I did mutual funds first okay because there are certain things you can do and mutual funds where you can put it in a funds that follows that certain indexes so that was one okay that's one of my first and you do a lot of collaborating with your husband and this is yeah okay what was the first thing I did to go oh so we do not all BC not all venture capital and we don't do all direct investments there are a lot of funds and and fund managers so I'll give you an example there are instances where if you don't have necessarily time to invest or do all of the diligence do diligence on all the investments that you want to make you may look at fund managers who were then really good at what they do some are you got to vet them right so that's very do is we're looking at what are companies that they are investing in and are they aligned in terms of the companies that they are investing in and if so align meaning with what it is areas that we are interested in and instead of us going directly to certain companies and investing in those which we have done that we've invested actually one of the ones we invested in a wall ago was slack and we're still using slack okay so it's great many many many many years ago we did that but that wasn't the first investment that was one of many and whatever is this like what what what year are we now we're 20 this 20 see we're 2026 okay we've been doing this now for all I am doing it for it's been 10 15 years okay cool yeah and I'm asking because so I can know at what stage of industry yeah I see what you're saying so I could see where the in-class able to happen so the incline happened and I'll even say before it was even really one of the bigger things is we did a lot of real estate okay and we did a lot of real estate and trying to find commercial residential it was residential it started residential first because it seemed a little more manageable okay we do commercial too but we started residential again small well I want to say small because it wasn't small at the time it may feel small now but you have to start small so you can teach yourself and learn and grow right and it was again it was a property that we did it needed a lot of work so we rolled up our sleeves in DC DC this was in DC okay this is the time with DC was like developing and turning okay a lot of appreciation there wasn't that it was right before that yeah before that turn now that could help you six seven ten extra investment that is exactly right but it also means don't go and invest in stuff that you don't know all right that and again this is not investment advice this is not investment advice I'm not telling people that I'm only gonna speak for my personal exactly personal experience and investment inspiration for inspirational purposes about my specific story right the first real estate investment in DC because I knew DC right and it's like all right I knew DC I knew the areas I knew which areas seemed like they had potential I knew which areas seemed like they potentially were gonna go through a revitalization because you had the concept especially many years ago what was then called white like like everybody's like no we're moving out of the city and we're going to suburbs but now what do you have everybody wants to be in the city that's right because that's where everything is and at the time then when you're looking at people who weren't necessarily taking care of spaces or places and other opportunities to not in a predatory way you have things where if you know places and spaces and you know people which is why people make a difference we all may be infinite in our spirit and in our souls but our physical bodies may have time limits that's right so that being the case if you know certain areas and there are neighbors that are older and have had their homes for a very very very very long time sometimes those neighbors want to sell to the people who they know not sell to someone who's a developer and who's gonna come in and doesn't seem or feel connected to the community sometimes that neighbor is gonna feel like wow I have had my life here and I did so much here that certain times at even a discount they're willing to help you in your dreams and help you build what you're trying to build same people to help you with the paper there it is do you see but now what did that teach you about what's now being framed as what they call gentrification oh what did that experience teach you yeah you know the sensitivities of that so I'm gonna talk about gentrification but I'm also gonna talk about being underestimated okay because I think some of those things come hand in hand is that when you look at gentrification and the changing landscape of communities if you will right well landscape didn't change when we bought because we were of the community right we were from the community right the landscape changed when some of the developers who did not have an interest in building the community we're buying and acquiring various different properties right that's when the landscape changed so what it taught me is again it still goes back to people everything goes back to people is that that connection if you look at it and I'm a person who firmly deeply believes in no one succeeds alone doesn't matter what anybody says no one succeeds alone so from a community lens if you have a community and you have communities that are there for each other and you are committed to pouring into that community, whether you live in the community or not, then you're there, then we could say, all right, you get it, you're aligned. But if you're coming in, and this is the gentrification lens and thinking, it's all about what can I extract? What can I take? What can I get out without giving? That's not reciprocal, and that to me is the downsides of gentrification, and what you see in that instance is people are going and extracting from a community, not building into a community, but then also not seeing, they're seeing the dollars and the numbers only, they're not seeing the potential. What I say about it being also a conversation about being underestimated, you have, and I tell a story about Princeton right now. And again, I've told the story about Princeton to the Princeton folks too, is many years ago, I think about this. I grew up in Washington, D.C., Nations Capital, you see lots of buildings all around with a lot of different people's names. So when I was in D.C., D.C. was a majority minority city and going from D.C., to Princeton, that's a really big difference from a cultural lens. - I'm sure. - You're not seeing, certainly, people that are looking like you in every seat. And you're seeing, in fact, the opposite of that. So even when there, you would see names on buildings like Forbes. I think we know the Forbes names. You would see names on buildings like Rockefeller. We know the Rockefeller names. You wouldn't see names on buildings like Quanza. And you wouldn't see names on buildings like Jose. So I reached out to, and this again is about underestimated which also connects to gentrification. I reached out to some of the development of our advancement office at Princeton. And as, huh, interested, what would it take to be able to give and donate to the university? If you're interested in a residential college or interested in a dorm or interested in something like that, no one got back to me. No one got back to me. - It answered you whether or not it was interesting. - There you go. So what did I do? I asked again, whether a few months ask again. Still, no one got back to me. - Yep. I asked again. And I think again, because I'm like, all right. And the reason for me certainly continuing to ask in certain instances is, do you think of a spade? - Do you ask different people? - I go. - Do you ask the same person? - Well, both. - Okay. - Both, because part of it is sometimes, and I'm sure you know this from some of your journeys. Sometimes you don't have the right person who you're asking and you need to just fine and identify who that is. For my lens, I did have the right people, 'cause I do my homework and I do my research, but I'll just say maybe they were busy. Who knows? - Okay. - Long story short, let's fast forward to, we did a donation to Princeton, and it was a gift to help increase the student body in the population. I'll give the numbers, because it's publicly out there. - No, I don't think, okay. - This one's out there. - I wouldn't even go, I wouldn't even go next. - Well, I'll do it now, because it was $20 million. - Okay. - So in this-- - $20 million, get your name on the bill. - Well, you know-- - And to help a college. - Well, I wasn't even to get the name on the building, because it wasn't that we were going to, I was just curious. I was asking that out of curiosity. - So $20 million would just get the answer. - Yeah, there you go, to get the answer. I had a question, well, I didn't know what it was. I was just curious, and the thing that Princeton does well, which is what I think a lot of organizations could learn is about the relationship, and you cultivate it. It's almost like what I was talking about with investing. Before investing, all of the amounts that we're investing now is started small. So Princeton will go and say, hey, before you graduate, can you make a commitment to whatever amount you want, whatever you're comfortable with? So if you wanted to be $5, that you'll give for the next four years, $5. Because it's about the habit. You build the habit, you build the muscle, and then you're building the muscle of, oh, this is a place in a space that's important to me. So I want to give to it. A long story short, had been giving, and then earned a little more, made a little more, grew a little more, invested well, would give a little bit more. Well, it took them so long to get back, and by the time I'm like, okay, here's this, where they reached out and then said, okay, how do we find, essentially, more folks like you? And I said, that's where the underestimation comes from. Starting DC. - Starting DC, for example. Starting ATL, for example. Starting some of these places and spaces where people are committed, are hungry, are connected, are loyal, have a dream, and just need the support. - Are you in any way aware of what shifted the interest or intention of the powers that be at Princeton? From the time you asked the question, to the time they came back and asked you, the question you just mentioned. - Okay. - What happened in between that time? - Well. - It went from not being interested to being very interested. - And then, and saying, hey, can you do a little bit more too? And I said, you all know, you all left a lot on the table. I told them that. Said you left a lot on the table, because from my lens, you underestimated. Maybe you didn't know. And I've said this to people often. I think it's important for a lot of your audience to hear it too. I say it to my team, I say it to anyone who lives it too. I tell it, just because you don't hear about it, does not mean big, powerful moves are not being made. - Right. - Because there is still work that is being done that people may be unaware of. And you still have to keep doing the thing that you do. Keep making your moves in the way you do what you do. Maybe people hear about it. Maybe people don't hear about it. But what happens and how that connects from a Princeton lens is, by the time they did say, oh, well, here's a gift, what shifted. And I was in a meeting or a committee or in a, I can't even remember which one it was. And they said, oh, well, how do we, how do we miss you? How do we find four folks essentially like you all? And I said, it's because we've been here, but you haven't seen us and I think that's what shifted. Is they understood that, wow, you're right here and you have been in some ways. This is my narrative, my story maybe it's true to them, maybe it's not true, that we were still invisible to you. And we were invisible to you because you didn't know 'cause we weren't broadcasting everything. We weren't loudly talking about all of the things that we were doing and we had been doing and building year over year over year over year over year. So I think the shift is they finally stopped underestimating. - You know what, I know that, that is profound because I didn't plan on spending this much time when I'm talking about this, but because you've led me to this, I wanna know how, if we are so invisible to them, how did you end up in Princeton? - Ah, so I'm one of four kids and two of us went to Ivy League schools and two of us went to HBCU's. - Princeton and-- - And NCCU, which is in Durham, North Carolina, North Carolina Central University and started at Hampton, but then finished at Howard. So Hampton and Howard and NCCU, those were the HBCU. - And we're in Princeton, both of y'all went to Princeton. - Both of us went to Princeton. - Okay, guys. - So-- - So got two of y'all. - Yeah. - Yeah, how does that? - Well, for me, I ran track growing up. Princeton doesn't give scholarships for athletes, so this is not gonna be that. So it wasn't that, oh, you got an scholarship and it's all of this. - Well, what was it? - I think it was that when I looked 'cause I was all set, I was going to HBCU. That was it. - You knew which one you was going to? - Hampton. - You was gonna go to Hampton. - Because Howard was in D.C., and I'm like, "I don't wanna stay in D.C." And my mother went to Bennett, which is in Greensboro, North Carolina. Fast forward many years ago, well, not many years ago, a few years ago, I was on the board of Bennett, and I was the chair of the board of Bennett, so HBCU College, which is great in helping to set direction and do various things. So I knew it was gonna be Hampton because it was far and ever away from D.C., and I knew it had just such a great reputation for excellence and opportunities and pushing you. And I'm a person who give me challenges. Like, I climbed Guillemagaro. I didn't take the easy route. I took the route that I'm not telling people to go do this, but this was a more challenging route. Unfortunately, some people have passed the way taking that route. They had to close it, and then I took that marriage. - Don't give me a chance, we're trying to get to Princeton. I had to go from Hampton to Princeton. - The Princeton, because I want to say that for me, it was ultimately visiting the campus, interacting, and it takes it back to the people, interacting with some of the people who were there, having conversations with students, and having conversations with some of the professors. And I'll give you an example. Toni Morrison, who has passed away, used to be a professor at Princeton. And when you go into space in a place, If you are, I don't know Tony Morrison. You need to get to know Tony Morrison. I think most people should know Tony Morrison. With her, basically being able to go knock on the door and ask a question to Tony Morrison. - Okay. - I'm like, wait a minute, I can just knock on the door and ask a question to Tony Morrison and then there's a guy named Cornell West who was there. - I know Cornell West. - Okay. - But listen, I know that he would have a desire or a wanting to be there. - Yeah. Probably wasn't a lot of people that were admitted or, you know, accepted, that looked like. - And correct. - So how did you make that happen? - Make it happen for me or make it happen for others? - How do I make it happen for me? It also helped that I had some friends who went there that were also from DC. So again, I think it's relationship. - Relationships, which takes it back to people and I kept thinking that all right, I will be here and I won't be alone, essentially. I'll have at least some folks that I know or some folks from home. And honestly, going up and down New Jersey Turnpike, it was a two and a half, I don't know how fast you drive. I'll say three hour drive. - Okay. - Three hour drive from New Jersey to DC. So I said, worst case. If it's not working out, if I get home sick, I can go home. So that for me, it is like, look, I'll try it. And here's the thing, if it doesn't work, I can always do something different. - All right. But that was an interesting piece of information, which brings me to my next question. How do you evaluate your being this opportunity today? - It goes back to what we started this conversation with. - People. - Okay. - People, who can you trust? How do you know if you're having people in some instances? - What about the industry? Like that, you can like, like in the due diligence part. What about like, how do you say, I wanna get into, I wanna buy you the Apollo. - Uh-oh. - I wanna take the Apollo and take it on the road. - Yeah. - And have a bus. How do you go from there? How do you say, I wanna be, I wanna own an MLB team. Like how do you evaluate your opportunity? - So I'm gonna talk about twofold. One from an industry perspective and one from a people perspective. Apollo's not for sale. We all know that it's a non-profit. It used to be for profit. People didn't know that, but now it's-- - When did it switch? - In the '90s. In the '90s, it turned into a non-profit. - So you didn't buy the Apollo. You just bought the book. - No, it didn't even buy the bus. Just came up with a concept and idea. For me, the culture of motion, which is what the project and the platform is with the Apollo. - Okay, culture and motion. - Culture and motion. - These tell us about this. - I'll tell you about it because it's connected to the Apollo because I'm on the board of the Apollo. - Got it. - And when I was at Princeton, I performed at the Apollo. And what I saw that the Apollo did even for me is, and this types of back to you asking, how did you get to Princeton? And I mean, how did you decide that this place? I'm at Princeton. You performed the Apollo multiple times. So you know the Apollo. Yeah, friends who performed the Apollo. They know the Apollo. - My wife. - Okay, right, exactly. Keep going. Exactly. And some, whether you were top billing there or whether you came Amherst or Knight, different people. I remember Fat Joe and I were at the Apollo presenting an award, a baby face. And we were both talking and saying like, we won Amherst tonight. That was our Apollo, starting our Apollo story. So we were like, "Oh, that's hot." You may get booed, but there's a proof of growl here you go. So I bring it up because coming from a place like Princeton performing at the Apollo, my dad had a law office and an employment agency in Harlem. So we would have to go work at the law office and work at the employment agency on the weekends and during the summer. So I would walk by the Apollo all the time and he'd tell me all the stories. My mother would tell us all of the different stories we'd go. By the time I went and said, okay, well, I'm gonna go perform at the Apollo, I'm at Princeton, it's only 45 minutes away. Yeah, why not go do that? So that's what I did. I also knew for me, Apollo was such a beacon and such a cultural institution that it was not just of Harlem or just for black people, that it was for all. Apollo is an American treasure. Princeton, as you know, is not just black people that are at Princeton far from it. So I said, oh, wouldn't it be great? And here's the bus tie-in. If we have some friends from Princeton get exposure to the Apollo because they've never had fear hits like that before where you can go to a place. And if you don't like it, you boo. And you are part of that give and take part of that audience. You are part of creating the outcome that you want. So had a bus of, I think it was 40 students or so that came from Princeton, go into the Apollo. I'm Wydeum. This is Expeditionally, I am to T.I.A. (upbeat music)