From Rock Bottom to MTN OPS with Trevor Farnes | Episode 382

Being an entrepreneur sounds cool, but the reality of building a business is very, very difficult. Every level that you hit, there's a lot of things that suck that you just won't want to do. What you're capable of is on the other side, I don't feel like it. And if you're committed to what it is that you're trying to do, nothing is going to stop you from getting there. Trevor Farns, the one and only. This is what our third podcast, because you came on in '42 and I just got yours. That's right. So I appreciate you jumping on here. Again, this is real business owners and you're one of the best I know. So I want to try to jump into what I was thinking is kind of tell your story. It's a good one. And then I got some questions for you that we'll go over and then wrap it up. Cool. Tell me, yeah, again, you, you, I actually learned a little bit from you. I mean, I think it was in your book as well. So I just probably had forgotten, but you had done something before mountain offs where you hit like you get into that. So what made you want to be an entrepreneur? What made you choose this life? That's so fun. It, I think it chose me, you know, I know I was your dad entrepreneur. He wasn't. That's the crazy thing. He went to a different hospital, he was a hospital administrator, you know, went and got his degree. He got a degree from BYU, went back east, got a degree from Johns Hopkins University, then went from George Washington University. I mean, he went, he took the time and went down that path and ended up as the CEO of IHC, Intermountain Healthcare here in Utah. So my dad, yeah, incredible career. It was the administrator for LDS Hospital, Cottonwood Hospital, Out of You Hospital, and then ultimately kind of got into the corporate side of things and was the CEO of IHC. And then he was recruited by Holy Cross Health Systems to run a nationally recognized hospital chain. And we moved to South Bend, Indiana when I was a teenager. So he went the corporate route and got a great education. And then I personally just during high school, even when I was little, my oldest brother was a, he's a really incredible entrepreneur, both my older brothers and my younger brother, like all of us have gone the entrepreneurial route. But watching, watching my older brother, especially when I was at youth, he was out like, he was always selling something and I had asked if I could sell whatever he was selling. He's, let's see, he's 56 and I'm 44 so, so a dog years. So yeah, kind of older. So you got to see some like real entrepreneurship ahead of you. And I loved doing that, loved watching him, loved like selling things door-to-door myself. I don't like door-to-door sells anymore. It's just, it's a, it's a difficult thing. But as a kid, it's like any, you know, little amount of money you could make was awesome. So he was selling living scripture videos when I was little and I remember at Christmas time, I'd take like Christmas videos about Jesus and door-to-door to all the neighbors and sell them and made a little bit of money. Then in high school, I started a little business that supported something that he was doing as well. And then after a mission that I went on for our church, I came home and I started working for both my older brothers. And it was a very entrepreneurial environment. Basically, I started in the warehouse then I went into sales and I was pretty much handed a phone book and told like go out and eat what you kill. You know, so I started smiling and dialing and working out deals and just acted as the middleman in many regards with brokering pharmaceutical deals. And did that for a few years, worked up a really good commission that I was making and was putting the commissions away with the hopes and dreams to open up our own business someday. It wasn't sure exactly what route we'd take, you know, just the goal was to experience the freedom of owning our own thing and hopefully finding some success. So you got back, you got off your mission. Right away. In fact, I left on my mission early. Now it's the same age that everyone's going but my dad was a mission president while I was in high school. So they told me I could go on a mission early or I could go to BYU for free. And I didn't have the grades to get into BYU. And so I was like, this is my opportunity. I could go to BYU, but I honestly just I wanted to get out and serve a mission. So I left when I was 18 got home when I was 20 met my wife. She started working for my brother as well because her dad and my brother were friends and we both started working in the warehouse together. She was 18 just fresh out of high school. And I was almost 21 and we got married. We dated for two months. We were engaged for two months and then the rest is history. So the typical Utah LDS marriage scenario to one wife, right. And and yeah, so I got married right away. We started having kids. Our oldest daughter is about to turn 22. We've been married for 23 years. And you know, started that that journey working for my brothers and then saving up enough to where we felt like it at a certain point, okay, we have enough money, but what's the opportunity. And so you knew you wanted you both knew you wanted something of your own. Yeah. So you're just the ability to create our own like pathway. I didn't know what that looked like, but I'm a very mission driven individual. I personally knew if there was something like a mission attached to it. Like I could weather the storm, I could grit and bear whatever difficulties we go through and we ultimately did go through some some some difficulties. But yeah, just wasn't sure the path. And when I say we had enough money, we had some money put aside. It wasn't like we had endless amounts of money. I was just putting away my commissions saving for about five years to then go and do our own thing. And some opportunities picked our interest. The first one was within real estate and had I known what was right around the corner because this was 2007. And I know you know, we have very similar stories. Had I known what was right around the corner in 2008, I would have never bought those properties. I mean, we got stuck in them. It just got knocked us down. We just got knocked down big time with those. But the bigger pain. They were homes. We did a short we did a short sell on a home. We rented it back to the individual. And so I thought, man, this is a great scenario because this guy is about to lose his home. And I can come in buy it from the bank at a good price. Have a renter. He keep him in his home. He's got I remember going into his home with this guy. And he had little kids. And I was just like, Oh man, this is good because we can own a property. We've got a renter. We'll keep him in his own home. He doesn't have to go through, you know, having to move his family. Seem like a great scenario when it felt like a win win. And so we're pricing that you actually got it as a short sell and still lost. So I mean, it's still. It's still where the loss came. It was like, I thought that everything was handled appropriately. Everything seemed good where this guy was happy. And then all of a sudden, like payments were being missed. And he wasn't making his payments. And so. And then a few months into this, I get a call late at night, like one o'clock in the morning from and it just the number just kept calling me. We were on a vacation. And I remember thinking, I don't know what's going on with somebody needs to get hold of me. So I walked out of the little hotel room we were staying in. And this lady on the other line says it's this Trevor Farns. I said, yes. And she said the Trevor Farns who owns my home. And I was like, wait, what? And then it dawn on me. I was like, he didn't tell us why if he didn't she doesn't know what's going on. And so we had a long like hour and a half conversation that night. And I explained to her that they were about to lose their home that we were, we kept them in it. And ultimately she was like, thank you so much for doing this. You know, but she, but now she lost trust in her husband. And so I was sitting there in the between all this. And yet anyways, ultimately he couldn't stay in the home. And you just couldn't make payments. So we had to deal with that. That was hard for me. And you came out of us. We're making a negative one. Well, then I had some other properties that we had also invested in that we were going to subdivide. And just things were taken long. And then all of a sudden, once we had them subdivided in the cost that we had put into it, nobody was buying. And I had also invested into and this was the bigger investment that really took us down was we invested into a franchise that looked very promising. I mean, everything penciled out on paper. We were super excited about it. We invested everything we had left into this. And we bought several franchises instead of one. What was the franchise? Well, I don't get into a lot of the details because my goal is to not like this. Not this specific, but like it was it was a retail franchise. We were cell phones. Yeah, it was okay. We were a T mobile authorized dealer. And I just don't get into specifics because the individual we bought from people make mistakes. And it's on on the same. And we're we're good now, you know, and good. But we paid the franchise fees for several of these. And we should about one. We should have tested the waters kind of built the process, build a framework, a foundation, and then scaled up from there. Or, you know, found out sooner than later with a smaller investment that things were going to work out because, you know, it took really long to get the stores up and running. We paid several franchise fees, inventory the stores, furnished all the stores. And then I hired either mission companion friends or just high school buddies that we're looking for an opportunity to run these stores for us. And then about four or five months after opening up the stores, the franchises were got shut down by a regulatory agency for some fraudulent business activity. And had nothing to do with anything we had done a lot of guys had bought into this franchise at the time. And everyone kind of had to close their doors while there was an opportunity. investigation done. And and we had to sit and wait. And then you start to learn and receive an education and working capital and cash flow. And honestly, we had none. We didn't have working capital or we didn't have cash flow. We were betting on the business producing enough to take care of the bills. You know, and so then I started to go into our personal savings to keep guys employed to to keep things afloat for a period of time. But then it was just evident we weren't going to be able to weather the storm. So we wrapped up those stores. But that wasn't the end of it because we had my wife and I had signed five year personal guarantees on each of these retail locations. And these landlords were in a situation now in 2008 that they couldn't just replace us. Everything was expensive. People were struggling just like you with your just like you with your shorts. So right. Exactly. You need the rent to pay the payment and they need your payment. And it's it's a domino that it's a domino effect. And so, you know, what we couldn't pay they ended up putting on, you know, just leans on our property and on our home. And our home was up for auction. Fortunately, we figured out a way with, you know, we didn't pay our mortgage for a few years. We were just struggling. It was it was a financial nightmare at the time, you know, just it did feel like everything around us was crumbling. And but somehow, you know, there was so many people struggling at the time. The banks were taking a while to get to people before they were, you know, kicking them out of their homes. And we must have been at the bottom of the list because they we stayed in the home for a period of time. And then finally, we got a modification done just last minute right before they kicked us out the sweet lady. And sometimes I just think there's so much that people can do if they just take the initiative to help. And some people in their jobs and their responsibilities to go above and beyond. I remember a lady on Monday. This was a Monday. They had told us we needed we would be kicked out of our home. Our house was up for auction. And I was working with this lady to try to figure out is there's something we can do. And she came back to us and said everything's being rejected. Like this is it's going to come to a to an end. And I remember on Wednesday, that same lady called us back. And she's like, I have not like stopped working for you guys for the last few days. And what was rejected on Monday, I just finally got approved through underwriting today. If you can make this X X amount of payment, we'll keep you in your home. And it was an incredibly low payment. I couldn't believe it. But I was just so grateful for this. I've never seen her. I don't remember her name. I recall her voice in my head. It's just like, wow, she went above and beyond for us. And she could have just been like, man, this is just, it's his loss. You know, it's this, but she took the initiative to help a young family, a young father with a wife and four children to help keep us in our home. And we were able to stay in that home. And, you know, and ultimately, you know, we still live on that same street. But we saw their home a few years ago. We were able to keep the equity in that home and that equity was, it was very important to us. We had, we had, you know, worked our tells off to get into that home and then to just lose it would have been very difficult. So we didn't have to start over with our kids. We were able to keep them in that home, keep them in the same schools, our church congregation. And I really credit it a lot to just individuals that went above and beyond in their own responsibilities to help someone out and so grateful for that. But that's, that's kind of how we got started into business. Yeah. It's so, it's so important, you know, when, like you said, you're down and out and you just, you, there's no hope and no light and no, every phone calls bad, everything's bad. And then you get that little bit of humanity and that little bit of, you know, and it goes so far. And I think that's what's, what's probably made you who you are now, you know, is knowing how important that is when you're on time to, to continue to, you know, pay it forward. So, yeah. So you did all that. You, you, uh, you know, very similar stories, very similar stories. Why did you, I mean, you regrouped and decided I'm going to swing again. Well, I mean, most people, you know, they just tapped out, you know, and they said I'm just going to go get a job. And I'm not made for this. I failed. And I'll just go to the nine to five. You thought I'm going to try again. I thought that. But again, I wasn't sure in what, like, I was like, what, what in the world should I do? And how do I start with nothing? Like at least before I had a little bit of money in the bank, and I didn't have a track record of failure. I had, like, I had been successful. I'd, you know, I had been selling pharmaceuticals. I had a good, good track record to go into that. But now I was sitting there with this, like, just, you know, feelings of failure and depression. And I remember, I did go interview for some jobs. And then I went and got the blood work done for the, you know, the drug tests and all that to get approved for the jobs. And then I'm sitting and I got the job. Like, I remember sitting in the parking lot once after I got this job and I called my wife and was like, I got it. Like, but, but that's going to take up all the time I need to, like, figure out what we really want to do, you know. And she didn't tell me to take the job. She said, well, let's, let's do what we've planned on doing. Let's just try to find another way. It was like, and that's so much the process in business, I think, and in life. Like don't ever take your eyes off the goal. But be okay to pivot along the way. Like, you know, things are going to come up. You're going to have to go around some things. You're going to have to adapt so many people just get stuck in like banging their head against the wall, doing the same old thing. And that's the definition of insanity, right? But you got to keep at it and just test, learn and apply. I feel like that's, that's my strategy is I test things. I learn from those things. Some things were good. Some things were bad. And then I need to apply that going forward. And sometimes you're kind of weaving, you know, this way or that to get to the ultimate goal. But we didn't take our eyes off of the goal. And my wife did not let me feel from her that I had failed. That was probably one of the biggest gifts that I had along the way was an incredible wife who continually just said, yeah, let's try it again. Yeah, let's try that. It wasn't ever like, are you kidding me? You didn't, you didn't do it last time. We're unable to. You know, I just never felt doubt from her. I was filling it inside my own heart, my own head about myself. But from her, I just felt like, yeah, we're going to make this work. It's going to happen. And so for a few years, I tell my boys, you know, that's the number one decision you'll make is who you marry. And I didn't even, I knew it was important. I knew it was very important. But I had no idea how important until like you said, we went through those scenarios. And you have, I have several friends whose wives are like, you're not doing that again. You're not, you know, they just shut them down and they control them and they break them. And it's already hard enough on us. And to have that wife that says, hey, I believe in you, I trust you, goes, you know, let's go. And what a powerful thing that is, it's like you said, it was probably for me the same thing of kind of that turning point where it was like, she still believes in me. And like you said, I was questioning everything about myself. But she still believed in me and my kids still believed in me. And it's like, okay, I'm going to do it for them. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. I mean, I, I feel like I've had some interesting partnerships along the way, but I've had two that have just been constant loyal. I can trust in, I can rely upon. And it's my wife and it's my God. And there was times during this where I would find myself up farming to Canyon here. I live in Farmington, Utah. And I'd find a rock to sit on and I'd look around to make sure nobody was watching. And then I would just bury my head in my hands. And I would just sob like, what is going on? Like, why is this happening? Why are we, feels like we're starting over? And God, could you please give me just a little bit of breath, a little bit of direction, a little bit of, you know, strength to take one more step. And that was, those were my pleadings on a regular basis. And often I'd find my wife doing the same and our closet are on, you know, next to our bed. And it was during those times when I started to think, I am, I'm not meant to succeed on my own. And even speaking that now and speaking that then, I felt like that was a truth. I don't think we are meant to succeed on our own. I think it's through connection that we conquer and that we're able to succeed. And that connection comes in many ways. Sometimes it's through a partnership. For me, it was with my wife and the partnership that we had and the strength and support I felt from her. It's been connection through a team that we've built here at Mountain Ops. Like I couldn't do what we're doing without the incredible teams surrounding me. And hopefully I'm lending to their lives as well. And ultimately, for me, it's a connection to God where, you know, the greatest amount of strength and support and guidance comes from because he's all knowing. And he allows us to trust in him. There's a scripture I love in Proverbs. And it says, trust in the Lord with all thy heart and lean not into their own understanding. And I, honestly, that's one message I would send to my kids. I'd send to anyone listening. You don't have to lean on your own understanding in life. It will only get you a certain to a certain point. And there's a lot of people that think they have all understanding and they'll, they'll make it. And, you know, it's not just not true. There's so much we don't know. And we have an opportunity to conquer that unknown. But why not lean on someone who knows all and sees all and is all who is willing to guide and direct us. And that's, and that's for me, the greatest partnership and source of strength through all of this. And it was through those trying times where I really feel like pressure is a privilege. We were going through some trying times and it opened our eyes to some incredible things around us. And, and what I mean by that was we had some needs during that time. We were hungry. We weren't starving. You know, we were able to provide the basic necessities for my, our kids. But oftentimes the, the cupboard was empty. And oftentimes, the bills weren't being paid and and a especially when you have kids, you're like, I've got to give them the bare necessities. I've got to just give them that, you know? And so that weighed on our minds all the time. I was like, okay, how do we, how do we make sure that they're just taken care of? And through that, I realized that, you know, there's a lot of families struggling in a similar way, especially during times like that, where the real estate market is crashing, the economy's on a downturn. And, you know, in our home community here, Davis County, Utah, one and four kids go home on the weekends without enough food in the pantry. And that was my, that was my family. Yeah, you said that when we were up there in Morgan at that last retreat, I was like, wow, that's shocking. 'Cause you just think, that's another country. Yeah, I mean, Utah is one of the better states, one of the better physical states. And I think it's like the best in the union, you know? Even my community is very affluent. There's, yeah, it is. In Farmington, Utah, but there's one of four kids that don't have enough food. And that's for different reasons. There's families where they've just, they've hit a downturn. Maybe they've lost a job. They've had a business that's struggling. Some families are just in this cycle, medical, you know, and they can't get themselves out. But in Salt Lake City, the Granite Education District, it's 50% of the kids. So it's like, it's right around us. And I didn't know that before. But all of a sudden, when you find yourself in that situation in the hot seat, all of a sudden, you're on high alert to what is actually around you. And that was one of the greatest gifts that my wife and I received was perspective. And our eyes were open, our hearts were open, our minds were open. And sometimes in life, hard things happen. And you can just look at it as, okay, that was a hard time. It was a difficult time. We made it through. Or you can choose on a daily and regular basis to see with the eyes that I think God is helping us to see with. He's allowing life to happen for us. And when we open up our eyes, we see things in a different way. And that perspective gives us honestly some power to do some things that we wouldn't have had before. I truly believe your most powerfully positioned to love and to serve the person you once were. But unless you open your eyes to what you're experiencing, you won't have that powerful impact and opportunity to bless life. So it comes down to empathy. And I believe that empathy is a beautiful gift that we have to offer to those around us. And so, you know, we went through those times. Our eyes were open. We had this desire through that to somehow help people that were going through similar experiences that were going through in it. You know, it's translated into what we call Operation Conquer Hunger at Mountain Ops. But that didn't happen right away. We were still struggling business, trying to figure out what do we do. I tried a handful of other businesses that just weren't picking up steam. And then in 2010, so this has now been three years. I read a book called No More Heart Disease. And it was a book I typically wouldn't read, have read, but my dad had just had some open. Well, he had some stents put in his heart. With Supposed to have open heart surgery, five years after those stents went in. But I took this book I was reading and took it to a chemist friend of mine. There was some ingredients in that book that I thought maybe these could benefit my father, created a concoction that's now called Enduro in the Mountain Ops lineup. And put my dad on it. - You just gave me a bottle for my dad. - Yeah, there's also solar and it just got some stints. - Yeah, it really helps people with high blood pressure with neuropathy and endurance athletes that maybe want to pre-work out without caffeine. It's that's what that product is for. And that's kind of where we took a turn and got into the supplement space. And my father was now my mission. So I was really like mission driven to help him and to help others going through what he was. - So how did you, so when did Mountain Ops, when was that the start of Mountain Ops then? That was the kind of a start? - Not the brand Mountain Ops and initially, I started it, started selling through doctor's offices. I called it Phoenix Nutrition. Like the bird rising from the ashes. I was ready to rise from the ashes. We all burnt down, you know? My dad felt burnt down physically. So we were like, hey, let's rise together. For about five years, we did that. I sold through doctor's offices, created some incredible products in the Mountain Ops lineup called, you know, there's Enduro, there's Yeti, there's our ammo product, the blaze product. All those were created through doctor's offices to begin with. And then in 2014, I partnered up with a few guys that were doing a lot of work in the hunting industry. And I found that there was a huge opportunity to sell supplements to a hunter athlete crowd that was really starting this movement of hunter athletes with brands like Under Armour and Yeti and Sitka. But we saw that there wasn't really a consumable brand leading the way. And I had all these products that we had created for doctors. And I thought, you know, with these new partners, let's brand this the right way. Let's package it the right way. Let's speak to the hunter who's not shopping in GNC, not working out in Gold's Gym, they're out in God's Gym. And it just, it took off like wildfire, you know, we presented in products like hell to them. How did you swap with the name or what, what's the name? Yeah, Mountain Ops, M-T-N-O-P-S. And the mountain represents the mountains of life. It represents the mountains we play in when we go out and hunt or we recreate. We bike, we hike, we ski, you know, all those things. But also a metaphor for life. The mountains that we face, the challenges we might face. Or the summits we're trying to achieve and accomplish. And then the OPS is outdoor performance supplements. And, yeah, and then at Joel Pilcher, he does a lot of wildlife design now. He was one of the founding partners. He created the logo, it's it's kind of a shield, but it's an M-N-O for the mountain ops. And everyone loved the look and feel of that. It's incredible when you can start a brand and people pay you to wear the gear. And then you have walking billboards. And we have hundreds of thousands of walking billboards out there because we sell a lot of the gear because people like to look, the fill, it's a cool brand. If we had come out and said hunters, nutrition, it wouldn't have been as cool to wear and whatnot. We wanted to build a brand in a community and a lifestyle that people were attracted to. And so that's kind of how we started. I just posted last week and I was in a tree stand and I had my mountain ops hat on. And I'm very, I'm always like, I'm gonna wear my brand. You know, I'm just one of those guys where if I'm gonna wear a brand, I wear my brand. Yeah. And I wear yours all the time. Yours is the only one. It's weird, too, because we go and hunting and I'm like, I just wanna wear my mountain ops hat. I don't know what it is. I think it's knowing you. And it just, it's, I just, it feels good, you know, but it's a weird thing because I don't wear anybody else's. I don't, you know, I'm very specific about wearing what I'm, you know, supporting. And so it's funny 'cause I always, I don't even know that I'm doing it. I was wearing it in Alaska, too, this last summer. And I'm like, taking pictures and I'm like, that's funny, I've got a mountain ops hat. Well, you look good in it, too. I'm always like, man, I wish that hat looked as good on me. Well, I love the hat, that you gave me a couple of, man. It's a really, like you guys have really good designs. And the two you gave me just recently when I was up there, you guys do very well on the quality and things like that, which is another big deal. But yeah, it is cool. Like you said, it's, I think for me, it's more than just, like a lot of brands are, you know, very specific, but yours I kind of, it has a bigger meaning with the Conquer Hunger and like you were telling me up there, culture, and I will get into a little bit of that, you know, but yeah. So you, so you launched this, it's going, it took off, and you got some partners, right? And then where did it go? Like, because you've, you've exited, you've kind of got back in, like tell us the story of kind of how that, and again, you know, share what you want, you know, any details that you don't want to do. But I like people to hear, 'cause being an entrepreneur is so hard, it is so hard. And people, I think, don't realize just how hard it is. And like your story, like you're saying, there was so many opportunities to just go get a job, go get a job, and you just didn't, you bet on yourself, you bet on yourself, you bet on yourself over and over and over, and to see it pay off. And like I said, I had never been up there, but to come to your headquarters and see your building and your, it's just, it's a special place for sure. Yeah, and I, you're so right on, like yes, it did take off, but there was still a lot of work in us, a lot of turmoil and struggle. 10 years to take off, right? It's like 10 years to do. Yeah, and you look at, when we first wrote the check for the franchise or the real estate projects, that was a 2007, when we launched Mountain Ops 2014, so I always call that like seven years of famine right there, you know, and in that time, I not only was trying to get businesses going, but I went back to school, I decided I found an online marketing degree where I thought, man, this could be beneficial for what I'm doing, 'cause I'm trying to sell products online, so I went and got a degree, so I would run, run the business during the day in the evenings, do that. I was also called into a bishop rick, so I didn't see my family for five years, you know, six years, where in that, that was a struggle, you know, we'd have Sundays afternoons and some time on Saturday, but there was a lot of homework happening, there was business, there was like, how we got to pay these bills, struggling through all that. And it, but it was an incredible time of life, and there was so much being built that really strengthens foundation that is sometimes not seen, and just the stick to it of this, and the desire to achieve, but also the temperance to build some strategy and some framework. We have a core value at Mountain Ops, and it's desire, and it says we value highly ambitious people driven with a desire to succeed, but with an attitude of temperance in all that we do. [BLANK_AUDIO] I think those things kind of contradict each other. But I feel like to succeed with some longevity, you have to create an attitude of temperance to build out some consistency, some discipline, and some framework that will allow you the foundation to build upon. And so that's what we did for seven years. And then even after we started mountain ops, there was a lot that we were exploring and doing 'cause nobody had really stepped into this realm of the hunter athlete and done this. And so we're finding the right ambassadors. And we're thinking, man, in a few years, we'll call Cabela's six months into it, they called us. And we're going to pitch them and we're scared to death, and we're working on our pitch. And we get to Cabela's and we've got our pitch down and ready to go. And then they're like, okay, we'd like to do this. This is how it's gonna work. And we're like, what can we pitch you for? You know, it's like, okay, we should just be quiet. And so we started to have some things that happened for us. But honestly, if you look at the history, like I had been building products for a handful of years, I had partnered with partners that were marketing in the space for a handful of years. It wasn't just this overnight success, it was taking an accumulative experience of multiple people and saying, okay, let's bring this together. We can't pair ourselves at all to begin with. We're gonna have to sacrifice. We're gonna have to really-- - Why? - And hours, no money. - Yeah, I mean, we were-- - It's all the things. - We had a little chain-linked area in the back of my brothers, we used car lot where we started mountain ops, where we had product that was laying on pallets on the floor. And at night, we were back there, like-- - Shipping the products down, you know? - Yeah, I put it on. - Doing everything. - Yeah, from beginning to end. And it's just incredible. I've pictures of my kids. They're labeling product for us, you know? And it was a family affair. We were at this together. I always think of an entrepreneurial journey. And I think of my wife and my children with me and God. And it's like it's our entrepreneurial journey. We all did this together and it's incredible. So yeah, we just built a long way. We started adding new products, incredible ambassadors and partners that really made a huge difference. We were able to get in touch with their audiences through their social platforms, through their YouTube channels. We've got a lot of them, but like the hush guys, who you know, we've all hunted together. We've kind of grown together, you know? Eric was our first customer service agent at mountain ops. Like, we built these brands kind of next to each other. It's almost synonymous with each other. You know, we've supported each other for so many years. And so yeah, and then, you know, you grow enough to where we started seeing some inbound interest from private equity. And it just felt premature. We told them, no, you know, we're not ready to sell. I get emails every day still like, hey, is mountain ops ready to sell? Would you like to sell? At one point in 2020, we did sell a piece of mountain ops to an incredible private equity group. And they, you know what? They, we were selling part of the business, but I was really wanting to be sold by who we were going with. 'Cause to me, being a mission driven, principal-based individual, that was what mattered most. If we had somebody come in and ruin the mission, derell us from the principles that we've founded this business on, the number one being recognizing God. And then we've got, we've got a set of 12 core values that we really work on. And we really emphasize as our decision making guard rails. And had a private equity group came in and just derelled all that, it would have been a super sad situation. But we were very meticulous about who we would work with, who we wouldn't, and we filtered it all through those core values. And does this group really align? Will they truly allow us to be who we are to our customer? And we've got a very smart private equity group who understands what we've created that it's special, that there's not a lot like it out there. And to create brand, to create community, it's difficult. You're letting people into your life. You've opened up the curtain, you know, open kimono. You're like, it's just, it's difficult. 'Cause you're working with a lot of individuals and you're not hiding behind a screen. There's a lot you can do. The supplement industry is notorious for putting a lot of claims up online, doing before and afters that are stock images and people hiding behind a screen and just selling a lot of supplements. We chose to do it different. We love the products. We use the products that our family uses the products. Here we are. We are the people making this, creating it. We're the ones that want to work in the trenches with you to transform your lives. And that takes time. But there's so much longevity in that if you do it the right way. And this private equity group came in and that one of the first things we did was dive into their core values. And I found that there was an alignment. And that was super important to me. We just wouldn't have done a deal if there wasn't alignment with core values. And ultimately, you strike a deal and then you say your prayers and you cross your fingers that they are who they said they were. 'Cause there's a lot of selling going on. And I've totally found that this group is over the last six years. They've been exactly who I hope they'd be for me as a founder and as a CEO. And for the five years after that transaction, I stayed as the CEO. I was a CEO from the foundation and for the first 10 years. And then a couple of years ago, I decided it was time to hire a new CEO to not step out of the business but to step into a new realm to help drive awareness for the brand as the founder. And to be more founder forward out there in the community. - Did you do that because you wanted more kind of like, not more free times? 'Cause I know you don't have free time. I always try to text you and stuff. I know you're not busy. But did you kind of feel like you were at your limit of being the CEO and to take it to the next realm or was it more just you just kind of wanted somebody else to drive the ship and you do something different or both? - There's a handful of reasons for, I'd kind of been feeling some promptings from God. Like, hey, this is probably time. But then, okay, why? And yeah, I think that every CEO has their like, their ability to grow to a certain extent and then you need somebody with that next level and they can come in and you can continue on as the CEO. Like you did for the first 10 years and continue to grow it and learn. But there's, you want maybe to get a little bit more scale a little quicker so you bring somebody and that has that additional experience. And so we hired a guy named Keith Sivera. He's awesome. He was the CEO of Onet Joe Rogan's brand. Supplement brand with Alpha Brain. He had been through some things that we were approaching that we wanted to do. And so there's that, he and I had a relationship for a couple of years. So it wasn't like this stranger that I was like, who's he going to be? How's it going to be? I knew who he was. We helped each other out just by networking and by knowing each other in the same industry. And when you're friendly with people, I would just recommend anyone listening. Like, don't burn bridges, don't cut people off. Like, keep, especially if there's a value alignment and you can support each other in a way without being competitive or whatnot. It's like just then support each other 'cause you never know when a connection might make sense to come together on something. And that's what I found with him. You create some succession planning. For me, it's like putting a new CEO in that seat allows the business to grow under somebody else's leadership. So that when you do sell the remaining portion of the business that there's somebody that's been in that seat for a period of time that can continue to lead and grow. But also as a founder, like I have a board that I sit on from mountain ops that I, as the CEO, I was reporting to all the time. And that's not my favorite part of business reports and analytics and financials. Like it's a must, you know? But I'm a very, I like to network, I like to connect, I like to build relationships, I like to be out with our people. I like to be a part of the, you know, the culture process. And when you're focused in on board reports all the time, it kind of takes you away from that. It was taking me away from, I believe, some of the gifts that God's given me to lead in a different way, to lead with people and lead with passion and purpose. And so it was really good to have him come in to be focused on the day-to-day build of the business while I could focus as a founder on driving awareness to the business by telling this story, by doing, you know, more operation conquer hunger events, by networking with other CEOs and founders in the outdoor industry or just in many different industries, speaking on stages where I could tell the story and point people to mountain ops, being on podcasts like this, it did free up time for me to do more of this, where before I was trying to fit a lot of that in in between all the reports. And so now I feel like I'm living in the lane I should be living in for myself, but most importantly for the people that I have stewardship over, I feel like this is where my gifts can be most useful and where I can contribute the most. And so it's been awesome. It's interesting, you bring somebody on, you turn your baby over to someone else, like, and I'd tell Keith this too, it's like, man, you have to hand the reins over. You have to step out of the way, but we found a really good balance where I have strengths that he still counts on and wants to have a round that can benefit the business and he's got strengths that I don't have that I count on and to build shareholder value. And so you find people with complimentary strengths that can support the whole. It's pretty fascinating to watch how that all comes together. Yeah, I think that's a good thing for people to hear because when I left to go travel, similar situation, I had to find people that could run my companies and take care of it. them over and hand them the reins and it was hard to remember calling up for the first few months like you know do you need the do you need or you're not calling what do you need what do you need like we're good and I'm like yeah you can't be good you know I'm not there they're like we're okay and you need me right yeah yeah it was a little bit of an ego thing and then finally I'm like I guess I did a good job you know my people but people out there listening you know I've been talking to a lot of our members the last couple months and trying to talk to every one of them and most of them want freedom yeah but to give to give to get freedom you have to delegate and you have to trust people with your or sell it and just walk away but I like keeping like and I know you still have ownership in mountain ops I have ownership in all of my companies you know it's not majority but I still wanted that there to where I could be a part of it and it's still part of my like heart keeps that it's part of my soul but I think people can kind of have a hard time letting go or ego or things like that and it's like it's it's again if you find the right people it's a beautiful thing it's a great thing if you find the wrong person and they you know run it into the ground I'm sure that's horrible but that's where you got to take your time and really and like you said don't burn bridges you know I there's so many wild situations of people that technically are competitors that now we're doing business together they're you know I buy them are they you know whatever it's like there's so many it's like there's just no need we're all trying to better our you know families and whatever and it's like just because you're in the same field doesn't mean we have to be enemies I agree there's there's the abundant mentality or there's the scarcity mentality and I honestly have found myself in both at times in life and I think fear has gotten the best of me at times where that that creates some scarcity and some separation and I'm all about connecting and conquering and if you're if you're living in a scarcity mentality that's really really difficult to connect and to conquer but if you have an abundance mentality that there's you know there's plenty for everyone and you live true to your core values and you align yourself with people with similar core values the sky's the limits for all of you and so it's I try to live in that way more times than not but every once in a while the the fear creeps in the scarcity creeps in and it just is not the way that life should be lived there there truly is an abundance for us out there and we just we have to choose to see it that way we have to choose to go after things that way but yeah it's it's been a it's been a huge blessing I've got you know the first business that I started Phoenix Nutrition it's in it's close to 17th year now and similar thing I've got guys that run that for me I don't still going I don't spend any time yeah it was it was such a good slow steady growth business when we started mountain ops there was no reason to turn that off I just had to I had to turn the reins I had to give up to go up right and so I gave up a little bit and I and turn the reins over and I trusted and I mentored as much as possible and then it's gone through a few different individuals leading it but we've got a few guys now leading and running that business and I'm not a part of it but I still own it and it's it's an incredible business in it's 17th year that provides for some families and provides product for you know thousands of doctors offices around the country and that's awesome and so yeah there's there's opportunity to continue those things forward as long as you have the right people in place to take your take your place and oftentimes I've found is those people end up doing so much more than you you could and and it gives you an opportunity to go out and create some additional opportunities for people and for your family so yeah and that kind of resumed my next my next part so you're so you're still at mountain ops you still work there um like you said doing the brand awareness and and kind of the um I know you're really heavily involved in the conquer hunger which yeah I've come up and done a couple of those which is amazing 12 million meals donated I mean that's just insane um what's next because I know I mean I know the answer but for the people listening because you want to get into coaching and mentoring right that's you kind of want to you know someday is that kind of where you're where you're headed and and why do why do you think you and I feel like we need to do that because yeah you could go do anything you wanted right I mean yeah you know you could go literally do anything why do you feel called to do that and I I know the answer for me but why you yeah yeah that's interesting I yeah right now at mountain ops and then I'll get into why I feel like right now it's a it's a heavy I mean I'm creating a lot of content where we've got the podcasts it's all focused around the word conquer right I've got I wrote a book called the conquer code we've got the conquer cast thank you we've got operation conquer hunger um and I do a I've monthly workout with a group of guys we call it connect and conquer so it's all around this mantra of of conquering um and uh I'm heavily focused on helping people conquer more in life through mountain ops that we've got an incredible product lineup and incredible community um and I I love it it's it's my greatest investment financially in life and it's it's blessing so many lives I uh in in operation conquer hunger I've been able to spend more time in that since you know going into this new role and um like you just said we just hit 12 million meals donated so for those that don't know what conquer hunger is back when we were going through those financially difficult times and our eyes were open to the need because we had the need we decided to do something about that um and we thought you know as we were building these businesses like with every order that comes in let's take a portion of that cell and instead of you know if padding our pockets let's let's put it to use to help the person we once were and so with every order that comes through mountain ops we donate a mill to a family our child in need and at our 12 year anniversary which you were at at our conquer summit we packed the 12 millionth mill during our 12 year anniversary and at that event I actually I tried to create a visual because I love the story of the low some fishes in the Bible I love that the Lord Jesus Christ allowed a young lad to give what little he had and then it multiplied to the masses and I just and sometimes you put yourself in those stories and you think okay that's exactly who we were just a young lad a young lady we had very little but we turned it over to someone that could make much more of our offering than we could ever on our own and it started to multiply in this community builds around purpose and passion and serving each other so our community knows when they buy a supplement from mountain ops it's going to benefit their life but it will benefit the life of somebody that couldn't fathom supplementing for their nutrition we're going to provide a mill and so we've done 12 million mills and at the summit I had the team come in with 12 baskets full they represent that low some fishes story where Jesus tells them bring back the baskets and they bring them back in their their 12 baskets full of fragments of bread and that's just it feels like that's what life has been and a lot of difficulties a lot of struggle you know you're you've got to let time do the hard work through life it's it's just difficult but when you do it the right way and you lean on that incredible source and for me it's Jesus Christ then miracles begin to happen and transpire and it does feel like the blessings have come back 12 baskets full not always in financial means but maybe it's with health or maybe it's with an opportunity to connect with a Rick you know or or someone like that where it's like wow this is a blessing that's filling my baskets in life and and then new opportunities come our way so I just truly believe that mentorship is it's a responsibility and a stewardship of anyone that's gone through something in life to where they can turn back and say hey I understand I've got empathy for you and the path you're on because I have walked that path and honestly the perfect example of that I posted about this on social media this week is Jesus Christ he descended below all things so that he could run to the aid of all things and a lot of all people and so that's what happens in life when we experience things we have this newfound perspective and experience that we shouldn't just waste by having keeping it to ourselves it should be utilized in coaching and mentoring others and so I have people reach out all the time you know we we've gotten some recognition at mountain offices Utah's best place to work I I received an award which honestly just came because our vps sells was super kind to write in and nominate me but CEO of the year in 2024 and and when you start to have some of those things or a book or you speak on a stage and you have a story that resonates with people a lot of people reach out and say hey can you help me can I know and I've tried to help as many people as I possibly can but there's only so much time in the day so yeah I feel like I feel like it's kind of calling to me like to help people and I'm trying to figure out the the right avenues to that sometimes it's through the little meetings I hold on a monthly basis with 30 guys that come in and we focus on a core value of the month and we receive mentorship from each other it's you know being in a lunch meeting with you or on a podcast with you it's it's I receive feedback from you and advice from you it's being mentored as well a lot of times I'll have young men that come off missions and they're like can I meet with you I don't know if they're trying to get a meeting with me to hopefully meet my daughter or daughters but I'll say yeah you can come work out with me we'll sauna after and then that's a great place to facilitate like we're sweating we're working out we're going through some hard things then we sit down and say hey what's going on in life what can I help you with so there's some very informal ways I've been doing that and hopefully in the future some formal ways you know I do a lot of speaking and I can speak I speak to a large crowd and that's great. - But I love-- - No, but you'll love that. - I love to see Cali. I get so nervous before it man, it's crazy. And but I love it. I do feel like when I'm sharing this story, I'm sharing a story that God's helped me to create and to live and I feel like it's helping others. And so I wanna get that message out there as much as possible. - How do you, that's one of my questions is, and I know I asked this on the podcast with you two years ago and I think you told me but, 'cause I'm envious of that. And I told you that when I was up there a week ago on your podcast, I'm envious of your faith. You know, and I grew up LDS, I didn't ever go in a mission. I was going to and then fell in love with the girl and justified not in all the things. But how do you, for those that are looking for that, I'm so envious of it, my wife's parents are the most religious people. I know they live there in Kaysville by you. And I remember his sister died in a car wreck. She was kinda having some Alzheimer episodes, memory loss and stuff and she got on really affluent family. I mean, very wealthy, they were doctors in Colorado and she just happened to get on the freeway the wrong way and head on the car and instantly killed her. And I don't know about the others, but just devastating for the family. And I remember talking to Kelly, my father-in-law and I said, you know, that's so sad. I'm so sorry that you lost your sister. And he says, I'm definitely sad. I'm gonna miss her, but I'll see her again. Just as confident as, you know, anything in life. And I was just like, are you sure? You know, 'cause I don't have that. I lost my grandpa and my grandma seven years ago and just devastated me. And I hope and I will never deny, ever. But I don't have that. I don't have that. How do people that would want to get that? Because it is such an important, in RBO, you know, we don't just work on business, we work on your fitness and your faith and your relationships. And next week, we have a guest coming on our live Zoom, which is just members only and he's going to talk about faith. And I invited him on, you know, and I know how important it is. It's just, how do I connect that? How do I get that, you know? And I know it's like my mom says, it's a muscle, right? You're there to exercise it. You don't just get abs, you know, you gotta go earn the abs. And so people that are out there listening that would love to have that. What's your, what's your, you know, I know you told me to read scriptures every day, right? And pray about it. I, this is the topic I love talking about more than anything. And it doesn't have to be, I would say you can take religion out of it for just a moment and just say first and foremost, establish a relationship with Jesus Christ. And, and you start to build that relationship by finding yourself with him. And so there's so many ways to do that. I mean, even through service, I think if Jesus Christ was here right now, he would visit the sick, he would close the naked, he would feed the hungry. So go out and feed the hungry. Be a part of that. Walk with him in, in the way that he would walk if he was here, so treating people the right way, living the scriptures, you know, but yeah, read him every single day, live him, put those characteristics into place and you're very good at that. So start there by living the characteristics of Christ. There's one word that's been that come up over the last couple of weeks for me. I posted it about a few days ago and it's considered. And Jesus Christ says consider the lilies of the field. I've always thought that one of the most Christ-like characteristics is somebody who is considerate, who thinks about people. How this, how this will this impact them? How will it help them? If I say this to them, is that good, is this bad? Like just being considerate as an individual, but he says consider the lilies of the field that I take care of them. And if I will take care of them, how much more would I take care of you, you know? So just consider what he's willing to do for us. And I find that scripture by reading. And so I believe that to build lifelong discipleship and a connection and a trust and faith in the Savior Jesus Christ comes down to a daily choice. It's daily discipleship, you know? When I start, when somebody starts here at Mountain Ops, I give them a new pair of shoes. And I tell them the choices you make in the shoes you wear, where today will determine the shoes you wear tomorrow. Shoes representing responsibilities, blessings, opportunities, I think is the same way with that muscle your mom talks about in really focusing on building a relationship. And it takes time and it takes reps and it takes practice. I wake up every morning and I speak to God through prayer. It's the very first thing I do. And the reason why I do that every single morning, I roll out of bed onto my knees, is to signal to God that he is the priority for the day. And I couldn't do this without him. And I want and need his direction in my life. And we do, how do you survive without that? And then I go into a study. And it's not just a 10 minute study. I set a part about an hour of my day every morning. And it's not all just reading. Sometimes I'm sitting and thinking and I'm pondering and I ever, yeah, journaling. But I make sure to open up the word of God. I read the Book of Mormon, I read the Bible. Right now I'm reading in Psalms in the Bible and I'm reading in the Book of Mormon. And I'm actually reading in Luke 16 this morning. But I read and I look for the voice of God. I listen. I try to really understand because I've heard the quote that if you want to speak to God pray, if you want to hear God speak to you, open the scriptures. And so often in my life, I'll find those. And we were just talking about mentorship. I'll take a story in the scriptures and I'll find, here's a father teaching his son. And I'm like, right now this prophet, this father is my mentor. What is he teaching his son? How is he teaching him? And then I apply it to my life. And it's really incredible to mark those things up and then to try to go out and now live the scriptures service, speaking to my children the way that that father spoke to his, encouraging them the way that he's encouraged them. And it's a daily thing. I've been doing this for reading in my scriptures every day for the last 28, 29 years. And it all came from a challenge that a seminary teacher gave me when I was 15 years old. And she challenged me to read in the scriptures every day for a year and then promise me that it would change my life. And honestly, it has changed my life probably more than anything else because it has created the connection on a daily basis to help me make those choices that would lead to the next shoes and the next shoes and the opportunities and the blessings. And I'm far from perfect. But I know who to turn to when I've made mistakes and I know who to turn to when I need strength. I know who to turn to when my father passed away. And I could find peace and comfort and confidence immediately knowing that Jesus Christ had gone through what he'd gone through that he had risen from the dead. And because he had done that, my father would too. And I will too. And I have no doubt about that. But it comes from many years and many days of just spending time with him. And our church's youth theme for this year has been walk with me. I think it's an incredible invitation. Many times in the Bible, Jesus says, come and see. Come follow me, abide in me. And then this year, the youth theme is walk with me. And I think what a more powerful theme. Then, OK, I'm not just going to chase after you. I'm not going to just kind of peek over to see, I'm going to walk with you. I'm going to experience this life with you. And I do truly believe that if he was here, he'd be doing those things. So to walk with him, in my opinion, means like daily looking for opportunities to lift up those that are filling down, those whose hands hang down, whose in their eyes. And you can just see it. When you've been through certain things, you can kind of see it on the face of others. Yeah, for sure. And we have an opportunity to respond. So that's taking religion out. Then I love my religion. I love my faith. Because within that, it becomes the vehicle to create additional connection that is very important and needful for me because I want to connect with my God. I want to understand him. So I'm taught through this vehicle. I'm taught through my faith, my church, and the Sunday meetings and the different things. And then I'm able to receive ordinances through priesthood that creates a covenant and a binding effect with me and that connection I want with God. And so those ordinances are very important for me. And that's where the religion comes in. I have a relationship with Jesus Christ, and it's further through those ordinances of the priesthood. Yeah, and I know my parents, my mom, especially and my wife's parents, the social, just the friendships and is paramount. That's powerful. I mean, you know how it is. It's like if you have a flood, your house, the whole word comes over. And if you-- I mean, it's such a tight-knit community that it is a beautiful thing. I am envious of it, and so I need to promise it. I think it's available for everyone, right? Just like a business opportunity and success financially and a good marriage and a good relish, it's there for us to go and take. It's provided. We just have to put in the work. I love a scripture that was read to my daughter before she left on her mission, is found in Mark 14. And my daughter's name is Kenzie Mary. So this is a scripture about Mary. and she goes in. into Jesus and she has an alabaster box of ointment is this very fancy expensive box of expensive ointment and it says in the scripture she break the box and she poured it all over his head. And then this leader to my daughter before she left, he said, Kenzie Mary, go break the box and pour it all in. Don't leave anything and reserve. So if you're out there and you're pouring everything into business and you succeed, same thing can happen. If you want a relationship with Jesus Christ, break the box, pour it all in and all on to Him. Why not? Why hold back? Why not experience it? And I would just say if he truly is the way the truth, the life, then why not test him? Why not experience that relationship? I love Romans 116. I am not ashamed of gospel of Christ for it is a power of God unto salvation. And I think if there's something that brings about salvation in the lives of all human beings, then that's the one thing I want to find out. I want to attach myself to it. And then I want to offer it to as many people as I possibly can. And so I'm not ashamed of the gospel. Jesus Christ, because it is that power to bring about salvation and comfort and peace. And this world needs some comfort peace, confidence, some courage, some community connection, like you said, right? Yeah. And so my grandma, you know, blessed her heart for 20 years, you know, she always tried to get me to go to church. And and I'd get annoyed sometimes. I'm like, yeah, she and my mom says she, it's done so much for her life that she would feel guilty if she didn't try to give it to you because she knows how important it is. She's doing it because she loves you and she knows what this can do. And I'm like, once my mom told me that, I'm like, okay, all right. That's, you know, yeah, it's awesome. I love it, man. Like I said, you're, you're a wonderful role model for me. And I appreciate you being who you are. And, and, you know, coming on here and telling your stories and it's such a powerful story. And, you know, people who are listening that are going through these hard times. And like you said, I know many of them are. And you can get through it. You can get through it. And just keep, you know, hopefully you have a strong group around you that supports you and your faith and all these do, and you're, you know, all these different aspects. But, you know, if we can do it, others can do it as well. Yeah, I agree. 100% agree. I love what you're doing with RBO because it's, it is, it's about connecting and conquering. And that's what an organization, a community like this facilitates for individuals to have a place to come together, to be vulnerable, to learn from one another, and to conquer more together. 100%. Yeah. And I want it to be, you know, obviously it's about for business owners, but I think like you said, you know, you have to have a strong foundation in, you know, if your fitness is out of whack or your, or your spirituals, you know, if you don't have a good ethics, like you said, take religion out of it. But if you're just a dirt bag, you know, it's like it's going to be, you know, it's like, if you have these pillars in place on your, you know, just outside of business, it's going to pour over into business, good or bad. And so I love hearing your story. I could, I, I said, but people should go check out your book, The Concert Code. It's a great book. How do people find you? Just my name Trevor Farns, also good amount of an office. It's MTN OPS. And then yeah, look up on Amazon. The Concert Code is the book. But yeah, most of, most of my life, I just post right on social media. I sometimes it, it's exciting. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just day to day. I love my family. I love my faith. I love mountain. Obviously, that's typically what I'm kind of posting about, you know, and, and then reach out. If there's something I can do to help, I'm, I'm happy to. So I love it, man. I appreciate you. When is the, when is the podcast with me come out? Next week. Yeah. No, I think it's either it's either the next ones that we launch every Wednesday. And so it's either it's over the next two weeks. Sometimes. Yeah. Cool. And I'm not sure on this one. I'll let you know, but yeah, go, go check out the mountain ops. The Concert Cast is what it's called. Yeah. Yep. So I appreciate your brother and, uh, thank you. Thank you for being on. Appreciate you. Thanks, Rick.