From Public Housing to Goldman Sachs CEO ft. Lloyd Blankfein

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That's code mrsdowjones50off at factormeals.com. See website for more details. The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements. To help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there. And Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends. It will help you set goals, map out big purchases, see if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch. Monarch's AI assistant. Anything about your finances. Like, hey, how much should I spend on travel last summer? Can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before. Like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools like a full financial advisor in your pocket. And that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to monarch.com. Use code trading. The first year of Monarch Core is happening. Half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year. Just go to monarch.com with code trading. And at a young age, you should be putting your money into equities and riskier assets and put it in an equity position that's not expensive to manage. That's my favorite advice that you could have given me. What's up, rich people? It's me, Haley, a.k.a. Mrs. Dow Jones. And this. Is Financial Tea. What's up, sippers? Welcome back to Financial Tea. This is a podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. And today is a very exciting day for us here at Mrs. Dow Jones headquarters because we have one of the most influential figures in finance over the past 50 years in the studio. Former CEO of Goldman Sachs and author of the new memoir, Streetwise, getting to and through Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein, is here to speak. I have to say, in preparing for this interview, I listened to the audiobook of this memoir and it is so good. I listened to it in two days. So I highly recommend it. If you're looking for a new audiobook or actual book, so good. But yeah, Lloyd literally needs no introduction. I was so excited to talk to him and he was so open. He spilled the tea on generational wealth, on leading Goldman through the financial crisis, on the money advice he'd give us, how AI is going to affect everything, and so much more. But first, let's talk about the book. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report, Brewed Fresh Weekly. Hey guys, welcome back to the Market Report. I have four stories that you need to know. The first of which is about Disney, which yes, is a great brand, but unfortunately is a very bad stock. Like if you had invested $100 in Disney 10 years ago, you would currently have $100. And just for reference, the S&P 500 has returned 180% in that same window. And you know, the park business is definitely booming. That is, you know, driving 76% of profits and hitting record revenue. Disney adults will not be held back. Like you guys are really just, you know, you're a vibe. And streaming finally has made money too after losing $10 billion. But the rest of the business is bleeding. Linear TV is down 16% year over year. And the stock is down around 50% in five years, which I just think is interesting because like if you hear the name Disney, you definitely think, oh, like that's a good company. Like I like I'm bullish on Disney, but you know, numbers don't lie. Check the scoreboard. I will say they do have a new CEO though. So maybe he can make this magical experience into something for your money. Next story is obviously about The Bachelorette. I'm sure that you know this by now, but Taylor Frankie Paul's season was canceled three days before it was supposed to air. And this is going to cost ABC around $50 to $60 million. But I just want to be real that like ABC cost themselves that money because the writing was on the wall that this woman was a liability to work with. And they did it anyways. Like they knew about her 2023 arrest. They knew about the headlines. And then the video leaked. It was horrific. And obviously advertisers like Cinnabon then pulled out immediately. They don't avoid losses. They just know how to cut them fast. And by the way, this is a perfect example of something called. Sunk cost fallacy. ABC didn't pull the plug sooner because they had already spent millions on casting locations crew. And I think they told themselves like we've already come this far. We have to make it work. But I just want to remind you that the most expensive thing that you will ever own is something that you refuse to cut loose. Like whether it is a $50 million TV show or maybe a broken stock you're waiting to come back or a job you've been at for 10 years but won't give you a raise. Or a relationship with a guy who still has a roommate and will never propose. Like if the fundamentals are broken on something, do not average down. Sell. Don't wait for a comeback. Make a move. The smartest investors don't avoid losses. They just know when to cut them fast. Okay. Next, we need to talk about the economic phenomenon called stagflation. Because guys, there is a 35% chance. That we are about to fall victim to this. The war, obviously, we all know about the war. The war in Iran is about to make life more expensive if it hasn't already. I talked to my sister who lives in Boston. She told me that it was $130 to fill up her gas tank. So we're already feeling it at the pump for sure. But what's crazy is that we went into this war in an economy where inflation was already rising. Like gas is up nearly 27%. Yeah. In a month. Oil has jumped 50% in two weeks. And like shipping, food, travel, your entire life is about to get more expensive because of this. Not to mention the U.S. economy is taking on way more debt because we're paying an extra $500 million a day to be overseas in Iran invading them. So the Federal Reserve, which is supposed to be like our balancing scale who makes sure that the economy is perfectly in order. Nothing goes. It's like too far to one side or the other side is stuck. Because if they cut rates, then inflation is going to get worse. But if they raise rates, then the economy is going to slow down more. So they're just sort of sitting there. And that is why stagflation odds are going up because life is getting more expensive, but incomes are not keeping up. So I never want to give you guys economic news without some sort of adage. I'm going to give you guys an action step because there's so much in the media already that scares the shit out of all of us. And that's not why I'm here. I think that there's always a way to take action and to protect yourself and like moves to be made that are going to put you in a better position. And that's the most important thing is just being proactive. So I will say, like, if you're really worried about this, lock in prices where you can. Lock in your rent, your fixed rate debt, pre-book things that are expensive. I've booked a bunch of flights. Took me a few hours. This weekend to play like the whole points game. But I just wanted to make sure that I was covered and also cut the random spending. It seems crazy because right now my Instagram feed is like half people buying the new collection from Chanel and half like economic distress about the war. But don't buy the new Chanel. Those bags are like $8,000. You don't need it. Buy a vintage bag and build your cushion because just by having an emergency fund, you're going to buy yourself so much peace of mind. So I'd really recommend like $6,000. And I'm also going to be putting up content about how to negotiate with your boss salaries during this time because obviously wages haven't moved, but prices have gone up. And so can you get a cost of living adjustment? That's really the question that I'm hearing a lot. So just look out on my page because that will be coming out this week. OK, now let's go into my conversation with a guy who knows a lot about the economy. Not only there, then Lloyd Blankfein is on the financial team. He is the former CEO, Goldman Sachs. He was the head of that company during the financial crisis. crisis. But this was such a great conversation. I'm really excited for you guys to hear it. Yeah, so let's go talk to my friend Lloyd. Quince makes elevated everyday essentials using premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and washable silk. The designs are timeless, thoughtfully crafted, and made to be worn again and again. Quince also has premium stretch denim, leather bags, footwear, and beautiful 14-karat gold jewelry. I personally have been living in my cotton cashmere rugby polo sweater this summer. It's so chic and sort of preppy and just pulls every outfit together in a way that feels really effortless. And it's not just apparel. Quince brings that same approach to everything they make, from hotel-quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials and thoughtfully designed furniture. They make well-designed pieces for everyday living. 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Okay, Lloyd Blankfein is on the financial tea, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, future New York Times bestseller for street food. He's on the financial tea, former CEO of Goldman Sachs, just came out. I have a signed copy. Thank you for being here. I have to admit, last time I saw you, you were on the walking path in Miami, listening to a podcast about the English language. Preparation for Mrs. Dow. Oh, Mrs. Dow Jones, may I call you Mrs. or Dow or Haley? You know what? It all works. So there are so many amazing stories in this book. I told you before we started that I listened to it in two days. The audio book is amazing. You read it. So were there a lot of great stories? Were there any darlings that you have to kill, like that you want to share? Any stories that- No, I like part of this is, you know, it's kind of a personal story. It's a history of kind of Goldman Sachs, of which there's always a lot of curiosity because of Goldman Sachs. You know, there's no crisis in the world that doesn't wildly affect Goldman Sachs. And about three quarters of the time, Goldman gets accused of causing it, whatever it was. So there's always a lot of interest in Goldman. There's always a lot of interest in Goldman Sachs. And there's always a lot of interest in Goldman Sachs. Because once you become senior person at Goldman Sachs, you become to other people in known quantity and have a lot of influence. But you have to get people to work together and make the kind of sacrifices of individual, you know, what people would want as an individual to just throw in with the hole, become a good team player. Not everybody can do that. I liked reading about your management style. And I feel like I've been using it with my own team a lot of times. And I feel like I've been using it with my own team. other like sort of habits and things that. No, no, but more realistically, with my own kids, I spend half my time giving them stuff and the other half of my time- Resenting them. Kind of resenting them for having the stuff that I just forced on them. Yes. And they're very good kids and they work very hard and they're highly productive. And sometimes I wonder, God, I must make them absolutely crazy because I'm really like that. I'll say, oh, you do this. I want you to have this. You should live really well and blah, blah, blah. And I'll go in and go, whoa, well, la-dee-da. And I said, you're living really well. Yeah. And they must look at me like I'm nuts because I am. Yeah. Other forms, here's another form that it takes. I was used to in my early life, because again, we grew up in the public housing and the projects, I got a lot of things for free and on scholarship when I applied to- Harvard gave you $5,000 one day. Oh my, yes. When I took my SATs, I didn't have to pay for them. We were a title one school, whatever it was called. Yeah. I just signed my name. I lived my whole life on scholarship. When I went to college, it was always on scholarship. When I ran out of money, I went back and they gave me $500 on the spot to do it. Then I go to these fancy school and fancy law school and job. And at some point, I'm looking back. And by the way, I'm writing out as if my big achievement in life was overcoming all these disadvantages. But then at some point, there's a crossover and I have to stop and say, at this point, I've had pretty much more advantage. And disadvantages because I did go to all these fancy schools after it. And I said, I have to readjust my thinking. And one of the ways on the money side is I had to go where I expected to be the recipient of financial aid and other people's philanthropy. I had to start thinking of myself as- The giver. The giver. Yes. And that was something that one day I kind of woke up and I said, you know, because I never thought, I was always the one who was applying for grants. And now you're giving them. And then I thought to myself, well, that would be real. That's going to be really look really bad if I'm taking, you know. Yeah, at this point. But it was almost instantaneous. Like there was never a period of neutrality. Yeah. I went from my attitude of I'm a taker to, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, a new day has dawned here. I really have to be a giver. And I did that. And the oddity of it is that people only know me this way. Yeah. And don't know. Yeah. Yeah. The point that you made earlier, you know, you get a certain kind of imprint when you're young. 100%. Stays with you. And you never shake it. No way. My audience is obsessed with growing generational wealth, though. Like everyone is sort of in that like baby having phase and they're like, we need to make our kids rich. How do we do it? So how did you handle your kids accounts? Like what accounts did you open? Do you have financial advice you could give to listeners who are trying to grow wealth for their children? You know. I think one of the things that I learned is that old saw from Warren Buffett that he wanted he wanted to make his kids just wealthy enough so they so they could do whatever they wanted to do, but not but not wealthy enough so they could do nothing yet. And I think that that's a way to look at it. But, you know, I think with my kids, you know, you'd have to ask them also, I don't think money and that was ever really the incentive for them or the cudgel that I use. And I think it's a way to look at it, you know, that they want to be perceived as do well. This is like what I said. I don't underestimate the important draw of being financially secure. That's the most important thing. But once you get there. Yeah. It's much less important because you're already there. And I understand the irony. If you're not there, it's the only thing that matters to people. A hundred percent. Their subsistence. But once you get there, there's a million contests that you try to succeed at. And, you know, getting self-respect, performing, having a doing well in your career, you know, well in your job, the approval of your peers, good. And they're all, you know, they're all strivers in that respect. So they don't have to strive for subsistence. But there's other things. And those things turn out to be much more powerful. I say, I'll take it from the other way. One of the advantages I had is that I didn't have to source my motivation. Yes. I needed to make money. And in my first job out of law school, there was a firm that was, you know, paying like, like literally a hundred dollars a week more, which, you know, which wasn't that much money in the scheme of things at that point. But for a hundred dollars more, I didn't bother researching which was the better firm, where my career would be better. A hundred dollars, I went to that firm. Today, if you are financially well off. Yeah. You have choice. You're like Hamlet, to be or not to be. What should I do? What's the meaning of life? What's going to be fulfilling? I wasn't burdened by all those extraneous things. Nope. It was just show me the money. And it's, and by the way, it sounds funny to, you know, when I hear it say it, it sounds bad, but it also simplifies things in a way. Life is much more complex to me because, you know, there's something that, there's always a thought that always came up to me through the various crises that I had to manage through. And what I would say to myself at times, no choice, no problem. If you don't have a choice, you don't have a problem. I love that. So when you don't have money or you need to do this, or you're the baby, you're about to have another baby or something like that. And, you know, you love your job, but it doesn't pay you enough, you know, no choice, no problem. So I've got to be honest, you're being very candid and I'm, you know, this is so fun to talk to you, but I've listened to a lot of your interviews and I got to be real. Like you do need Rosetta Stone for some of it. Like it is very inside baseball. And I think that is the central problem for most people trying to build wealth is that finance does feel like this foreign language. Everything is simple. If people are using jargon. You should be able to explain anything to a very, you know, to an attentive, reasonably bright eighth grader. Oh, a hundred percent, which is sort of like the level that I consider myself. So it's perfect. Yes. But I want to try something. Pretend that I am a 25 year old with a normal job and maybe I have like $5,000 saved. What do I actually do? Like walk me through, what are my next financial steps? Like, you know, I don't know any of the words. Well, the first thing I did was I bought an insurance policy because I'm, because I were, yes, the first purchase I made. Smart to do it so young. And there were a lot of people who I work with and they bought, you know, an uptick in cars. And I, I, I bought an, I bought an insurance policy because I thought that was the right thing to, but it was the right thing to do. It was. And by the way, the amount of people that I talked to who are financial planners who have done the same exact thing, they're like, oh yeah, I got it when I was 23, 25. By the way, obviously a lot cheaper when you start to buy it and the whole life. And I just didn't, it was a form of, it's also, as you've, I'm sure you've told your, your audience, it's a form. It's a form of savings because you accumulate, you know, value in the insurance company that you could tap if you need it. So it, and by the way, it's tax advantaged. And so, because it grows tax, of course we do, because we don't like taxes, but we like, we like, oh my God, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, no, none of those. And also in back of your mind, if you have obligations, you have a, you know, young family and a growing family, you kind of owe it to them to think about them and protect them. So, so insurance, and by the way, after that, obviously you want to have some fun in your life. So, you know, you could buy that, you know, 14 year old used car. I'll give you that. But then, then, then, you know, you should invest it. And at a young age, you should be putting your money into equities and riskier assets. And then the rest of the excess put in equities because that's likely to grow faster and put it in an equity position that's not expensive to manage. Oh, that's my favorite advice that you could have given me. I think, you know, I've been a financial professional myself, but, and advice, you know, advice is important, but things that have high fees are just, you know. Wait, coming as the CEO of Goldman Sachs, you're telling us to avoid fees. Well, avoid high fees and, you know, you know, Goldman Sachs has no problem justifying an earning and, you know, our business and people say thank you after it. And we're in a different kind of business. We're not in the consumer. Yeah, you're a hundred percent. Yeah. Except with Marcus, but we all know how that went. Yeah. Well, that's a savings account. And by the way, it's a, it's a relatively high. Oh yeah. It's great. Yielding savings account. A hundred percent. Government insured like everyone else. FDIC. I'd put every, in fact, I have my excess cash, that'd be liquidity in Marcus because. Why not? Since, since it doesn't have branch offices and doesn't have to pay for a lot of people. No pens to give out. No pens to give out. No TVs or toasters. A hundred percent. I know. And so. I do like a pen though. That's a high, you don't want to pay a lot of money for the pen. You don't. No, no. Of course not. So that's a good, that's a good thing for liquidity. But other than that, your other stuff, put it in a low cost ETF. Love it. So I do want to, at that, this point, pause the podcast because I know you are still an active, aggressive day trader. So I just want to give you the space here to sort of do what you need to do. I'm sure it's been hard not to like check the prices as we've been in here. Are you seeing my hands shake? Yes, exactly. As I go through withdrawal. Hold on just a second. Let me, let me look at my phone a bit and see, you know, but I'm cool. I'm cool. It could be, you know, it could be up 30%, down 30%. You won't see a reaction from me. Oh my God. No, you won't see a reaction from me most times, but it is an occupational hazard. I've known the price of everything all the time for just about 40 something years. You can't turn that off. I always thought like, if I'm, you know, again, not to, you know, to, to put a smile on something dark, if they, when, if they, when they bury me, they put a, put a, they put it, they better put in a market screen and extra battery. They're going to create like a new kind of casket that has like. have a wire that just goes down with a permanent power source so I could just keep checking the market. But I think we can make that happen. By the way, in my line of work, it's not considered rude to be having a conversation with somebody while you're staring. That's why I wanted to give you the space. This is a safe space for you if you need to do your day trading. No, no, but I can, you know, I could put it off for a while. Okay. Well, you let us know what you're in on because maybe we want to follow you. I can hold my breath for six minutes and I cannot look at the market for about 12. So it works. It works. Okay. You're like me with celebrity gossip. That's how I am. Okay. I was on threads yesterday, which low-key is my favorite social media. And I saw someone write that they feel like all the financial advice books out there are so outdated because like the economy and the world has changed so much since they were written. And so I just wanted to give a general PSA that they are, but there is a new one coming out May 12th. I wrote it and it's called future rich person, the new rules for building wealth. Even if you're stuck broke and that billionaire won't text you back. If you want to work for yourself or you want to buy a house with your best friend, or you want to have a kid when you're 45, or you want to learn how to optimize credit card points to fund your lifestyle, even though your parents always said that they were dangerous, or you want to grow generational wealth, like all of these new things, these new opportunities that we have in 2026, it explains how to leverage and utilize to really get your financial freedom on. So right now, I'm doing all of these insane promos around the pre-order. Like if you pre-order, you unlock all of these amazing resources that are usually behind paywalls. So go to mrsdowjones.com slash book to pre-order future rich person. It is out May 12th, but if you pre-order, you're going to unlock access to the future rich club, which will give you lots of freebies that will help you get rich. Thanks for the support. I want to ask you specifically though, because you watch the trading floor go from pure human chaos to almost total automation. Like you talk about another thing, right? Yeah. In the book, like you, when you started out, everyone's screaming on the phone, buy, sell, which is like, there's a movie that people, that's an old movie and nobody likes to watch, you know, old movies, but there's an old movie called trading places, but we have people waving their arms on a trading room floor. That's the way it was. You could hear, you know, it's very funny. People be screaming at each other, be sitting there, everyone's sitting next to each other, by the way, smoking cigarettes, take out containers on the floor and screens that weren't, you know, they didn't have windows. In those days, you stacked one screen at a time, another people were risking their lives sitting at a desk because it could topple on your head and people shouting across the room. And, but if somebody said something wrong, you could then all noise would stop and you could hear a pin drop and people are fighting with their husbands and their wives while they're sitting on the floor. And now you go into a trading floor today and people are communicating digitally to the person sitting next to them. You could hear a pin drop and I go, wow, this is, this is, this is sure different. When I first started out, mistakes are expensive. You know, you say the wrong commodity, you think you bought something, but you sold it. And it turns out that was wrong. You have to undo and you lose. How much could you lose? You could lose millions. Today on a trading room floor, if there's a wrong piece of software, you're not listening to it. You're not seeing it. It's invisible. You can have something go wrong. And in one second, thousands of transactions could happen. You could lose. It tends to be, I mean, it's more, the world is more dangerous. Yes. My dad works at Goldman and there was like something during the pandemic where someone was trading from their house for a client and it was a disaster. Or they put in a piece of, they put in a piece of errant software and it's somehow, it's sold every security for a dollar for like 30 seconds, but it was like a half a billion dollars worth of stuff. So I have something to show you, producer Emma, will you please bring me. This is so, you are so well staffed. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. It's so crazy. So what I have here is there is, this is the new edition of interview magazine and there is an article in it about the finest men in finance. Oh my goodness. So I'm so, I'm so honored. Well, first of all, are you upset that you're not in it? Would you have done this at their age? Like these are, I think two of these people work at Goldman. Oh, I see. So what they are doing is they are, they are asking to be killed. Is that it? Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. No, I wouldn't. Um, I, uh, you know, we hear they're on the chop chopping. I don't know. I don't know them from Adam. And so I don't know them and I don't know what they do with the rest of their lives. They may be the, uh, you know, they may be the wardens of their churches and they may be going to heaven. Uh, but I would say, and they may, and they may, um, be up for the Nobel peace prize and they are in the other part of their lives. But I would say this one says new money. That, that would not have been, uh, now that would not have been the direction in which I would have exercised my judgment. But again, I don't, I don't know who they are. And, um, by the way, if they're the kids of my friends, I think it was perfectly appropriate and fine that they did that. Oh gosh. Okay. Yeah. This one is a market associate. Yeah. We've got some good, these could have been your colleagues. I hear, I don't think that they will last very long though, but okay. So I I'm sure you're upset that you weren't in that. They, they missed you. Yes. You could have been. Yes. Cause, uh, and, and it's funny, I didn't, uh, you know, again, this was a while ago. Um, I'm not sure all your listeners were sentient, you know, grownups at that point, but I'm talking about the financial crisis, the big one, as opposed to all the other financial crisis was a little over 15 years ago at this point. Oh wait, but you remember. Oh, I remember. I remember get the occasional PTSD from it. I'm sure you do. But I, you know, that was my predicate for saying that I have been in almost every magazine, usually in very, uh, usually, you know, often in very unflattering, with unflattering texts surrounding it. Yeah. You called them the tab Lloyd's. I was in the, uh, you know, again, the paper of record, the New York post, like every day with a caricature of me to the point, to the point where I had a friend who gave me a big set of coffee mugs, each of which had a character from the New York post, uh, and, and, and a big, uh, and a big false newspaper that was labeled the daily tab Lloyd. I think that you should release that merch line. Um, so I mean, your words, not mine. If you want to talk about, oh, wait, we can talk about, oh, wait, we could talk about a little bit of a way. So, you know, something that I see a lot is people are obviously like, you know, I'm telling everyone invest because that's how you can grow money. You can't save your weight. Oh, well, you have to do that a hundred percent. And, you know, but then the, the moment that the market goes down, people flip out. I, there's some people who are like, let's buy the dip, but then there's others who are like, oh my God, should I sell everything? Is this the end of the world? Um, and you were in, I would say the most magnified intense version of that. And we had the crisis of the century, like every four or five years, I can name them for you. They won't necessarily mean everything, but you know, the dot-com bubble and the long-term capital bubble, Russia, the Russian default and the Asian currency crisis. Right now, the Iran, the Iran war. Oh yes. A little, you know. A little bit, a blip. Yeah. You know, 5%, whatever. So now this is called, and who knows? And the thing is the current crisis always seems much worse because it's not resolved. Yes. And the other crisis in the past, you know, is, is resolved. So you can never, you know. You can never equate what happened in the past with the intensity of what happens today because today always feels more intense because it's not sorted out. Yeah. Whereas the past is always sorted out. So it can't get worse. You talk in the book about, uh, you know, there was a day that was so intense in 08 that you like hadn't eaten anything. And finally. Lots of days. Lots of days. You know, great for the waistline, pre-Ozempic. And, uh, you were in the car with your driver and you ate like an old hot dog and he was like. Oh no, I was coming down. I'm not kidding. This is literally true. You know, read the story. But at one point I had, I had to testify in front of a pretty hostile Senate committee, you know, on the financial crisis. And they decided that we should be the, um, that we should be the object of, for mortgages. Go get a mortgage from Goldman Sachs. We're not a consumer bank. Yeah. That's tough. We bought other people's secondary mortgages. So we were certainly a participant in the mortgage business, but we were hardly ground zero for the crisis. But we got through the crisis whole. We didn't lose any money. So crazy. And we certainly didn't go under. And so that made us more of a target. It wasn't, it wasn't particularly fun to make a target of company that went under. No. They went bankrupt or lost a fortune because they were already punished enough. So we're out there. And then one day I had a testimony that started in the afternoon and went till way late in the night after which, and this was in, you know, in the Senate, I gave interviews. There were at least a dozen set up in the rotunda of the Capitol building. And they were, you know, CNN and all these, I didn't even know there were so many networks. And I literally gave like a 10 or 15 minute interview. To each of them. And I don't think I got out till two in the morning. And at that point I had a driver who, you know, waited and we drove from Washington to New York. And I realized, you know, I hadn't eaten all day. And I was like, you know, really, really hungry. And we stopped, you know, we stopped in Maryland on the side of the road at one of these, I don't know what it was, it wasn't a 7-Eleven, it was something like that. And we go in and I'm looking for something to eat. And there was one hot dog that was rotating on this thing. Had your name on it. And it was there. And I'm telling you, it must have been, it must have been there for six months. And I said, I'll take it. And my driver had come in with me and he said, don't eat that. If you eat that, you'll die. And I said, you know, it's really possible. But at this point, I don't really care. Yeah, that's not the worst case scenario. You know, the crisis, the big crisis that, again, people are only reading about now, you know, came in two forms. It was the existential part where you didn't know who was solvent and who was, and we actually were, you know, quite okay. Okay, but you couldn't, got on a, if you got on a chair, stood up and told everybody you're fine, then people thought you were really in trouble because you're protesting too much. It was very hard to work your way through that. And we got through that. And then there was the reputational part where they were trying to unscramble and say, you know, who's accountable? Who caused this? Who is this? Who is a bad, who is a bad actor in this? And that was kind of the reputational part. And that went on for a long time. And it was not quick. The existential part was what I was trained for as a risk manager and to make, you know, rapid decision-making. And the other part was just like kind of a painful, slow twisting fall. And that took a long time and it worked its way through. Eventually we worked our way through it. Then I had some, you know, personal trials and tribulations, you know. A little lymphoma. A little lymphoma. A little cancer. A little cancer. Yeah. A little this. Sometimes it be like that. A little bit like this and a little bit like that. And then there was this moment where the clouds broke. And you said, I want to be an author. And the sun was shining through and the violins welled up in the background. And I said, you know, when things are going badly, you can't leave. You can't leave. You can't run out on, you can't abandon your post when things are going badly. And then things are going well, you don't want to leave. But that's when you have to go. Yep. Always leave them wanting a little more. Okay, guys, when I first started Mrs. Dow Jones, I was selling a lot of merch and it was a business idea that I was sitting on. 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That's AquaTrue.com, A-Q-U-A-T-R-U.com promo code F-I-N-A-N-C-I-A-L-T-E-A. For people who are not in finance for 08, it really did villainize Wall Street against the like everyday person because of the government bailouts of banks versus of the everyday person who was hurting. And obviously you were like at the forefront of that. So can we just discuss that a little bit? Explain why it was so important to bail out the banks in terms of like our capitalist system. Well, I know that those are the words that are used. You know, certainly the ones that went under lost all their wealth, all the stock went to zero. People, you know, lost money. But, the government did take action to support the banking system, not because they were trying to help banks, but they needed to get the banks up and going in order to help everybody else. You know, in our economic system, the government doesn't lend money to people. No. Banks lend money to people. The central bank doesn't lend money. It lends money to banks that lend money to people. Exactly. If the banks are in distress and they have huge losses and they don't have enough capital, they have to go out and accumulate capital before they can start lending money out. And it was going to take forever. And what you needed to do is you needed to get money out into the, into the world, into real people's hands. And so you had to invest money into the bank so that they could do their jobs. It had the, you know, the banks that went under, went under. But the other banks, and they were, they were helped. So in other words, they may have been on the precipice and they may have been accumulating their capital instead of lending it out. And once the government gave them a little capital and maybe guaranteed some of their exposures, they didn't have to hold onto their capital. They were kind of secure. And that was a bad thing, but it was necessary to get them so that the capital they received from the government then got multiplied and lent out into the system. We had to grease the wheel a little. They had to do that. And that created, you know, the kind of resentment and polarization that we have in the world today. Exactly. And totally comprehensible because, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the blue collar workers that maybe put a down payment on a second home and, you know, were hoping to, you know, make money by, you know, doing a fixer-upper and go as a business. Yeah, and the American dream and now I'm a real estate guru and yeah. And they, you know, and they didn't get, you know, you know, in that immediacy, in that immediate moment from the government. And so, you know, it was a perfectly, you know, understandable, you know, appropriate outcome. And, you know, and then of course the machinery of government went and, you know, and, you know, you had a kind of, you know, you know, an assessment and it resulted in tremendous amount of regulation and government intervention over the next few years, which, you know, at the end of the day was a normal reaction, but counterproductive. Yeah. And over the last 10 years, kind of a steady relaxation, more turned to normal, but there's a cycle. Yeah. And then maybe it'll get too liberal again. Yes. Well, hopefully the pendulum will swing, but not all the way. But in this country, we are the largest economy and yet the fastest growing of the big economies. Yeah. And the most resilient and the most flexible. Yeah. Europe's still not like all the way back. Right. How is that? Yeah. Why is that? Mm-hmm. And you know, in our system, we let people get risk takers. Once upon a time, if you speculated in something, you started a business and it failed and you couldn't pay back your loans, you went to debtor's prison. Yep. Now you get your, your debts get expunged, you declare bankruptcy and you could start over. Mm-hmm. And you know something? And you don't get shunned for it. No. You don't get canceled for it. No. It's part of your story. Resilience. It's, it's part of the risk taking. Mm-hmm. And that's why the US is the best economic system because we prize resilience and we provide other starts and we look forward. We resolve our, we identify problems and solve them ruthlessly and efficiently. In Europe, they have a different social contract. Mm-hmm. If industry changes, new technologies come along, you can't fire people. Mm-hmm. Maybe that's a good thing. That's their social contract. You don't fire people. It takes a long time for them to deploy and then to fix it. It takes a long time for them to do those things. Yeah. Because you can't make those sudden adjustments. Here we do that. You get a very dislocation. Maybe that's a bad thing, but one thing for sure is things get- It moves things faster. It moves things faster. Yeah. A lot of people are interested in investing outside of America right now though, because there's like all this anti-America sentiment. Like how do you think about that for- Look, I think some of it, I tend to focus, you know, I, you know, I'm one person so I focus on what I do. I have, again, the ETFs and the very, the very inexpensive, you know, the exchange traded thing. A little VXUS. I have, or FEZ or European stuff. I have, I have some of that too. Again, I'm not, I'm not picking individual stocks overseas because- Overseas, but you know. Because it's not my interest. Yeah. I mean, they're just as good, just as valid if I live there and I grew up there- Yeah. And I was, and I was, you know, using those goods and services every day. I'd be more focused on it. But I do have some, again, low cost ETFs in that space also. Yeah. So in other words, diversification is, you know, the S and P 500 ETFs, those are highly diversified 500, but they don't have foreign stocks. So you can have an S and P 500 and you can have, you know, footsie European stocks. Yeah. But I tend to be more focused on America because why? Another reason, which economy over time grows the fastest. Yeah. I did get a lot of questions of people being like, Lloyd, is the market gonna crash? Like when's the next crisis? First of all, I'd say don't necessarily get out. Okay. In other words, another thing is, you know, should I get out when I, you know, when I'm, you know, worried? You know, you just don't know. Yeah. It's very hard to time. And statistically people can look at it, you know, if you miss the best five days of a year, you know, your, your performance is so much worse. Yeah. Than, you know, so I wouldn't, most people shouldn't be trying to gain this and time this. I, they just say what you should do, the way you handle it is just don't put into risky assets stuff where you're so nervous and biting your fingernails to the nubs because you need the money tomorrow. A hundred percent. And you know, you're not gonna be able to do it. You're not gonna be able to do it. that made me laugh. And then also when your wife was asking about your support of same-sex marriage and you were like, I'm the support of some sex, I'm in support of some sex marriage. I was the chairman of the New York City Partnership and the marriage equality. And there was a headline in the paper, you know, Blankfein supports same-sex marriage. And, you know, it was in the paper every day, you know, it was in paper. I came home and I said, you know, I'm getting all this attention and I'm proud of it, but it's, it's all based on a lie. It's, it's a typo. I was an advocate for some sex marriage. No, it's like, actually the book is so good. It's so funny. But I also know that your sense of humor, Lloyd, has gotten you in a little bit of trouble. So is there. No one's perfect. No one's perfect. But what would you say is the most expensive joke you've ever told? Not expensive, but I brushed off a reporter in the UK once. Somebody was, you know, you know, Harangue gave a full interview and the guy, it was an article about Goldman Sachs and they were interviewing other executives the next day. And I'm walking out of the ante room to the elevator and the reporter comes at me again, you know, with another question. And I said, you know, I can't talk to you now. I'm off to do God's work. Duh. It was a brush off, you know, comment. And he, it was got written up as if I was making an ecclesiastical, you know, religious. Like you were being like very serious. Oh yes. I'm off to do God. I'm about to consult with God. And he wrote it. Imagine this banker talks, thinks he talks, you know, and so that was kind of a nutty thing. At the time, was it, I mean, it was kind of, you know, kind of funny. And, you know, some people say. I think it's still funny. Like the joke. All press is good press. I think it made, it's now a funny story about that. Yes. You know, but. But in the midst of all the tabloids, I'm sure that didn't really help your. Oh no, there was a, you know, it got, you know, it's like, you know, when you're testifying in front of, you know, Congress and, you know, if anybody's watched anybody testify, there's like, there's a well between you and the senators or the congressmen that are grilling you. Well, and there's a million photographers in trying to take your picture. And what they're really trying to take your picture while you're there is that, no, they want you to like be scratching your nose or something and take that exact picture, like at the right moment. Like doing cocaine. Yeah. Or something like that. And so I would always like, you know, game it. I'd be sitting there listening and I'd see somebody staring at me and I'd go like this and I'd see them raise the camera and then I'd do that. That's so funny. Because you have to, you know, in those moments you have to entertain yourself. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm real bored. Well, thank you so much, Lloyd, for coming on The Financial Tea. You are a busy man. You have a lot of press stops on this one. Oh my God. Miles to go before I sleep. Miles to go before you sleep. But we've definitely got a bestseller on our hands. And you guys listen, I would listen to the audio book. Lloyd is really funny. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll learn a lot. You'll laugh, you'll cry, you'll learn, you'll invest. Whatever happens, happens. But it's a journey to be on. So thank you for being here. Well, thank you very much for having me. And I'll see you when you are in Florida. Hopefully by that point, you're listening to your podcast about the letter Z. Or volume two. Volume two. Oh yeah. Volume two of the book. Look, fingers crossed. We're all waiting to know what's the next chapter. Good, good, good. Thank you. On any journey using Uber, it helps to know you're getting into the right car. PIN verification adds an extra step to make sure your ride is your ride. Before the trip begins, your app gives you a unique PIN. Just tell it to your driver and they'll enter it in their app before the ride can start. Hey, what's your PIN? Mm-hmm. 2538. That way, you know you're in the right car, taking the right trip, and your driver knows you're the right passenger. Make sure your ride is your ride with PIN verification from Uber. One more way Uber is putting safety at every turn. Learn more on the Uber app.