From Pirro to Zero

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And they had an opportunity to vote for something that would have actually banned it in the law. They chose not to because that would have been a victory for the Democrats. And so I don't know what they're telling themselves when they sort of close their eyes at night, but it is the most Trump had their fucking number. They were as weak and craven and pathetic as he thought. And he has been proven right. And these pieces of paper aren't worth a fucking thing. Yeah. Trump said the slush fund was a gift, Todd, and I'm taking it with me. I don't believe for a second this is dead. You can you can move him off of bad policies, but you can't really move him off of something he wants personally. And this is money in his pocket. If he can avoid IRS audits forever or have a slush fund, then he can divvy out for political power. Trump is not remotely embarrassed about this fund. It is quite clear that he thinks this is something that he is owed by us, the taxpayers. So I put zero stock in this terrible idea of being dead. This is Michael Myers. This will keep coming back and coming back and coming back. And I think he will fight for it until he gets what he wants. The only thing that might kill it is Democrats winning the House. Yeah. Our friend Sky Perryman, a lawyer who's been suing the Trump administration for Democracy Forward, she made the point to The New York Times that, you know, if the Justice Department truly intended to end the fund, they would submit the sworn declaration that the court has requested on this, which would be more binding than an fingers crossed promise from Todd Blanch that does not include the signature, as you so love it, of Donald Trump. So I would imagine this goes the way of everything else, like, you know, the ICE detentions that have now ramped back up. As soon as the news cycle moves on and Todd Blanch is attorney general, they will quietly start paying out individual January 6th convicts and other people that they like. And, you know, we'll get some report months from now that, oh, someone discovered that people are getting payouts. And I think that's a good thing. I think that's a good thing. And someone will ask him about it and he'll be like, well, I said it was unfair, but I don't know anything about that. And then that'll be that. This is also the whole thing is so ridiculous because what are we negotiating over here? We have we'll get to it, but we have the president threatening to fire prosecutors simply for telling the truth about the prosecution of someone who didn't deserve to be prosecuted. We have Todd Blanch in front of Congress saying that DOJ is not independent. We have so many reports about the politicization of the Justice Department. Under Pam Bondi and now Todd Blanch. And their final act is to stop what is like the fund is so it is so far beyond anything anyone could have ever seen from a president, a slush fund for fucking insurrectionists. And this is what they're going to pat themselves on the back about this is as they have no political fights left to fight as Trump has made enemies of them. Imagine the reverse of Trump being like, I'm going to, you know, like as a senator being like, even though you humiliated me, I'm going to I'm going to do the right thing for your cabinet nominee. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Good to run on in the midterms. Anyone who look, a lot of these people are going to vote to confirm Todd Blanch. And if I'm interested to see what Susan Collins and Dan Sullivan and John Husted do, because if you voted to confirm Blanch, you basically voted for the slush fund. And so any ad about that is completely fair. No, no, no doubt. So Blanch is in. But Trump's U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia may be out on Friday afternoon. Former and now maybe future Fox News host Jeanine Pirro announced in a court filing that the Justice Department would be dropping its case against former Olympian David Hearn, who had been facing a felony charge for allegedly vandalizing the reflecting pool. But Pirro and the DOJ now admit, according to the court filing, that the damages to the pool were the result of a, quote, hasty and botched installation, not vandalism. No shit. The Department of Justice went on to accuse the prosecutors about what really happened. Take that, Doug Burgum. Trump, surprise, surprise, is furious. Have you spoken to Jeanine Pirro about her decision to drop her? No, Jeanine Pirro made a mistake. It was vandalism. We have photographs or tapes, like moving cameras, right? We have them where people are on the side cutting it with a box knife. Now I'm not saying I was a hundred percent thrilled with the contractor. I'm not saying that. But the contractor was rushing. We wanted to get it open for July 4th and we got it done. It looked beautiful. And then they cut it. The judge was extremely unfriendly to Jeanine. And frankly, I think she choked. And I was disappointed with Jeanine Pirro, really disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. She, uh, she folded like an umbrella. That was the closest he's come to sounding like he did in The Celebrity Apprentice. Like it's like the boardroom and he's about to move. Yeah. It's like meatloaf. You didn't make the taco restaurant operate at a profit yet over at the, the bubblers were too loud on the memorial. Jeanine Pirro, you're fired. That's the best part. Saying they had to turn off the reflecting pool bubblers because it would have interfered with the UFC fight. Like a gurgling fountain would have distracted 5,000 people cheering. Someone's face getting bashed in. The roar of the pool pump. Apparently, um, Pirro and Burgum were seen, uh, after that walking into the Oval Office and then Burgum was seen walking out, but Pirro is still in there. Um, now by the time you're listening to this, probably by the time we finished recording this, we could already, she could already be done. But, uh, so, so long, so long, Jeanine, it sounds like. Um, what a fucking mess this was. What a fucking mess. Yeah. Also like before people go saying like, I clearly like, it seems like this was, this, um, was written in anger, like clearly annoyed at the, whatever they were getting from the interior department. Uh, but regardless, the idea that the Department of Justice, even after doing the right thing here in between fucking getting a char, an indictment for this guy and letting him go, uh, like your entire story was reversed. What kind of evidence were you basing this on when you brought the charges in the first place? Why did you have to learn so much after you decided to try to ruin a man's life, uh, that you would eventually decide to drop it? I guess because you thought it wouldn't hold up in court. Yeah. I mean, the only reason they had to come clean is because if you knowingly submit false evidence in court, you can be charged with perjury. You can go to jail and you can, you know, be punished by state bar associations and deal with all their problems. So Doug Burgum is just like, Oh, I'll just lie in the court of public opinion. Like no skin off my ass. But judge Janine, uh, it doesn't matter how many chardonnays you have. You cannot lie before the judge. I mean, there's always a spot on the five for her. So they'll make it the six. I know this one seems small and silly and it's kind of fun because it's, you know, Trump's renovations and it's the reflecting pool and it's so obviously a lie, but like this guy was charged with a felony. It's crazy. Had to get lawyer was like facing jail time. And, uh, it was all because of an obvious lie that everyone knew was an obvious lie. And they all, I mean, there's all, you know, you can look for them anywhere. There's these clips all over the place of Caroline Levitt, Donald Trump, Janine Piero being like, it's, it's evidence. We have evidence that we're going to present in court and we know it. And it was the box cutter about, and just a lie the entire time. Like one of them, one of the more brazen lies they've ever made. Yeah. There's one, there's some interview with, with where someone's questioning Janine Piero about this. And you realize like, she doesn't totally know the facts. It's like, well, did he have a knife? It's like, no, no, no. He did it with his hands. It's like, I'm sorry. What are you saying? This, this, this could, this 67 year old canoeist is like, well, like swimming through the pool, ripping up Wolverine. What are we talking about? It's crazy. Yeah. No, this is, it's a good look. Yeah. I'm with you. This story like didn't seize me when it came up in the same way. The East wing kind of story. I didn't like it really. It wasn't the thing I care the most about, but what I think I've come to realize over time is how much symbols matter and how much it's made this corruption stories breakthrough. We can talk about, you know, day trading from the oval office and the amount of money Trump is making, but like stats and stats and figures are not going to break through as much as a simple narrative like this, where you have Trump's, you know, selfishness and ego leading a innocent man to be fucking prosecuted or, you know, tearing down the East wing or whatever, like these symbols really matter. They make these stories breakthrough. I think it's like impacted in politically. Also it's coming on a day when the attorney general nomination is about to be carried through. Like there are the two Republicans just decided to give their votes to like give their imprimatur to how this department of justice is being run at any other era at any other time. This would be like, uh, of course we need to bring Todd Blanche before the Senate again, to find out what does he think about this? Was he aware of this prosecution? Does he think Janine Pirro was in the Senate? I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't think so. I don't the wrong. Does he think now he's got an out? Cause if Trump fires her, he'll be like, absolutely good. The president did the right thing. This was bad. This is not how we're going to run the justice department. Well, let's see what happens now. He, he, of course he wouldn't have said that if Trump didn't fire. And also what, what, what were you aware of these charges? Do you believe Doug Burgum misled the department of justice, right? Like let's, there needs to be some resolution of, of these facts because now we have Trump and the interior department head saying that it was still a crime and that this person should still be prosecuted. The, uh, it's not over either because David Hearn's lawyer has basically said that, and I think he told CNN that all options are on the table. And among those options, according to CNN, he's going with the Iran attack, except, um, they can, options are referring the prosecutors involved to a bar disciplinary authority filing lawsuits, seeking more of the grand jury recording, documenting the prosecutor's present presentation of the indictment because they did get an indictment. asking the judge to dismiss the case so it can't be brought again because Piero's office only dismissed it uh without prejudice meaning that prosecutors wouldn't be barred from attempting to revive the case later so they need to go further and make sure that they tough can never can never bring it again tough case to bring again when you have the prosecutor saying that that they were misled by the department of like the like the tough but not uh not unprecedented for this guy sure sure yeah but uh i would say it's like my question would be is like is are we gonna are we suing these but where let's we get this guy some cash the shit of them get some 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uh he made an appearance on cnn state of the union with dana bash on sunday morning for a thoughtful conversation about the nation's health let's take a listen i will literally eat anything because i don't have uh i don't have um but even the gag reflex let me put it like that that's what lindsey graham said in heaven wow wow i just just wanted to play that for you guys that was not that was not the dana bash conversation but that is what the health and human service secretary is up to it's such a weird way to describe why you'll eat anything it's not like i have a adventurous palate i enjoy all kinds of food it's like nothing makes me puke i don't have a gag reflex okay good to know write it down all right let's uh let's check out the actual conversation with dana bash at the case of the covid vaccine protected children i think that what i have talked to scientists and doctors can you look can you show me one study yes you are saying nonsense you are saying something that you cannot show me a single i am not saying nonsense you are talking with somebody told you excuse me and you let me cite me what study what study no what studies are you talking about you're talking about you're talking about me and i really want to move on but yeah you were saying you were part of the problem no i wasn't yeah there was absolute press malpractice okay are you gonna you want to sit here and attack me or do you want to have conversations i'm not attacking you i'm asking questions about how to let me ask the question and i'll tell you that's what i'm trying to do but dana you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist but you're not either what did you guys think of that uh uncomfortable and somewhat infuriating interview so it is so hard 20 minutes that went by 20 minutes and is a brutal 20 minutes and it is very difficult to in real time fact check someone who is all over the fucking place mischaracterizing studies uh asking you to prove the negative in the next sentence grabbing for all kinds of things the mennonites aren't vaccinated actually uh lyme disease is from gain-of-function research and you like you're all over the place trying and and this is where it's like you know what like i think dana trying to call upon the the history of recalling expertise and things you've and are this is where i think what makes it so difficult is that rfk his whole thesis right is that like this is all pretty nefarious right he says like oh the icus were actually empty they were lying about basically how full all the icus were because they were trying to scare people and control people you're being misled by all the experts and i'm the one here to tell the truth and you're just going to recite the experts that i have the real facts about but he doesn't like rsv is not from gain-of-function research that's a lie lyme disease is not disease lyme disease is not from gain-of-function they found the lyme disease bacteria in a 5 000 year old prehistoric fossil covid covid multiple studies have shown that covid protects show me one study that covid vaccines protect kids tons of studies uh show that covid protects kids there was one that found that the only kids in the world who were not vaccinated were those who were not vaccinated in the icu from inflammation due to covid were unvaccinated kids just over and over and over again these like you can't show me this and you can't show me that well maybe not while sitting there kind of being peppered with bullshit from rfk jr with sort of misogynistic you're not a scientist shit uh but of course he's just uh like you know dissembling and misleading and lying about what the evidence is yeah i mean i think she did a good job at some time at some points less good at the other like a very the very top um he says the u.s had the highest death rate from covid that's just not true i don't think so i don't think so i don't think so i don't think so even close to true peru had the highest death rate per capita we had the highest death toll but that's largely a function of having the third highest population in the world yeah we're down at like 18 for something something the teens for yeah and also they get into this weird place where like a bunch of countries with you know less stable governments don't have the resources to collect all the data so we don't really know all this stuff she asked she asked a question about she asked him about gain of function research and then he came back with this lie saying rsv and lyme disease were created by gain of function research which is just unequivocally not true and i think you do have to be prepared on that one to be like that is absolutely not true the question phrasing itself was kind of strange it's sort of like in defense of gain of function research i'm not sure that was the most valuable question uh and then she kept pushing to move on which is complicated because then you kind of sound slippery i think it got better and more constructive in the measles section because she really just wanted to pin him down and get him to say yes like get your kid the mmr vaccine there's a horrible measles outbreak it's deadly for kids but then rfk says i never questioned it i never questioned it i never questioned it i never questioned the efficacy of the mmr vaccine sir yes he did he said it wanes he called it leaky that's a lie it's like 90 effective it has lifelong protection 90 of measles cases are unvaccinated people or of an unknown status now i had to research all of that right to like kind of fact check this guy it is why he's already so slippery and condescending but like when you interview that guy that's the job yeah i think um this is how conspiracy theorists especially with science and medicine this is how they work right which is scientific judgment is not um like every single scientist and every single study for all of time agrees on the same thing it's the preponderance of evidence points one direction maybe there's one study that says something else and then the conspiracy theorist latches on to the one study and it's like well why maybe that's the study maybe that's the study that actually tells the truth and all the other experts are wrong and every time she could cite a study he could cite a study back the best way to get him is tell me what you just said which is if he claims that he said something you can be like no this is actually what you said you know and you can put it up yeah put it up but or just say study these nuts right sure but it's also a safe and effective way to reply but when you're going when you're going study by study and science by science this is this is like you know it's a microcosm of how we all fucked up the pandemic so badly right is that it's just a bunch of now everyone can go find their own research and can go find some study or some scientist or some asshole on twitter who debunks um scientific evidence that is overwhelming like that is that's the whole story of how we how we went through the pandemic yeah it's all like now the guy's fucking health and human services right and he like also just brought more broadly right deeply mischaracterizes the body of research on autism from uh vaccines to tylenol in part because if you're doing tons and tons of studies one study may show a correlation and then some more research is done and they say you know what actually we took that correlation research and we ran another analysis across a much bigger sample to see what would happen between the two studies and then we're going to do another analysis across a much bigger sample between siblings. Right. And actually, it turns out that that correlation doesn't produce causation when you look at Look at it another way. And this is a much deeper bit of research. And so, you know, while nothing is ever known for certain, we believe this is just sort of something that you can say there is no evidence for. But that's not acceptable. But this is why I come back to the ICU thing. Like, why? What is like this is where I think you have to go. So you're saying all of these scientists are lying or misleading because what they they want kids to get sick. They want kids to get autism. Newsrooms are lying to newsrooms were saying that New York City yards were full and they were making it up. What on earth are you? Donald Trump was president. If that were happening, he would have gotten to the bottom of it. That's his hometown. And it's fucking insane. And what's the motivation that they just they wanted everyone to stay home. They wanted to scare people. They wanted to vote by mail eventually to have everyone stay home. And then I guess they all probably had, you know, business connections to the pharmaceutical companies. And that's big. Yeah. Well, to try to get the vaccine. That's why they're all pushing the vaccine. Well, this was also like there were people running around with video cameras trying to prove that the ICUs in their town or their place were empty. And it was like, well, that's not the covid ward. And by the way, yeah, like they're worried there's about to be a huge influx of patients, et cetera, et cetera. And like it's all this idea that like you can't trust anybody. You can't trust the experts. You can't trust the science. Like, dude, did these did Fauci and all today like there was plenty of ways in which they were trying to be, I think, you know, too declarative, afraid of. Giving people nuance because they weren't able to they weren't sure what they could trust the public with, in part because there were so much so much misinformation. But these were people desperately trying to figure out what to do in the middle of an emergency. And he sits there like kind of leaning back, being like it was all a lie. They were all lying. It is so fucking disgusting. But this is the whole I mean, this all came from the Fauci hearings last week, which we didn't really talk about on the pod. But basically, they decided that because they found that in Fauci's, you know, private journal, he was like, it's so cool to be. Me and meet celebrities. I'm like the most famous person in the world. They're like, that shows that he killed everyone. But dialed Barbra Streisand again. What a voice. And they're like, sir, that proves it. That proves that you did everything wrong. Like, yeah. God forbid we have an egomaniac in charge during a pandemic. Is it great for medical research in the scientific community to have the clips out there of Fauci pleading the fifth, however many times in front of this hearing? A hundred and eleven times. Terrible. Obviously is terrible. Do I understand why he did it from a legal perspective? Kind of. I read half an article on this because I'm not obsessed. I do think I am. There is like I'm just kidding. Like it was just sort of an asymmetric story where Republicans are obsessed with this and Democrats are like, I want to think of anything but the pandemic. It was the worst couple of years of my life. None of us want to go back. America agrees. Yeah. But yeah, it is just I don't know. Bobby Kennedy, man. All right. It's primary day in Michigan. And we got some midterm news to talk about, including a big announcement of our own. Today, Vote Save America is launching what we're calling the Crooked Dozen, 12 of the most vulnerable House Republicans who we can put out of a job this November. But we need your help, dear listener. If you go to VoteSaveAmerica.com right now and sign up, you will get practical, concrete steps that you can take to help flip these seats and lots of others up and down the ballot. You're going to get information on where to donate, where to volunteer, how to make sure your friends and family are getting the best information about the races. Lots more information. It literally takes two seconds to sign up. At VoteSaveAmerica.com. And if you're already signed up, grab a couple of friends, have them sign up, too. We're trying to get as many people as possible. We did this back with the Crooked Seven back in 2018. Worked pretty damn well then. Yeah, I think we got them on, got almost all of them. And yeah, so we're trying to we're trying to raise money for the Democratic candidates who are going to take these folks on and also just get some volunteers going. As an added incentive, we do have some news about one of the Crooked Dozen, Max Miller, the Republican representing. Ohio's 7th District, south of Cleveland. You may already be following this incredibly disturbing story. In 2024, Miller and his wife, Emily Moreno, who's the daughter of Republican Senator Bernie Moreno, got divorced and the custody battle for their two-year-old daughter ended up in court. As part of that court fight, Emily Moreno said that Miller repeatedly abused her, scalding her with hot water, holding a gun to her head and breaking their daughter's collarbone. The allegations, which Miller denies, started getting more attention. Over the last week or so, when Senator Moreno refused to comment or call for his ex-son-in-law to resign and to quit his campaign, Miller then delivered a 20-minute live stream statement on Sunday morning where he did not drop out, but accused Emily Moreno of being a stalker and saying things like this. Would she have written that we were in a friendlier place? No, she wouldn't have, ladies and gentlemen. The boiling water story the media has run with. That story is about an incident in June of 2024, while we were still married. And here's the truth, and this is the absolute truth. It was horseplay in our kitchen. If these accusations were true, I would be in jail. That is just. Um. He also posted and then deleted a Dropbox folder of audio he'd recorded of her, some of which contradicted his own claims. So then he took it down. After that disgusting display, Bernie Moreno, the senator, his former father-in-law, finally spoke out, posted a long statement that said, among other things, that the two years since the divorce have been pure hell, that he holds his breath every time Miller has custody of his granddaughter, and that, quote, if there are any basic standards of character required. to hold elected office, Max Miller fails them, he should not serve in the House of Representatives. Miller then immediately called him a liar. So, I assume there's been a groundswell of Republicans now calling for Miller to step aside, right? Trump was in the Oval Office, was asked about that, and said, well, he's a good person, good person, terrible situation. You know, I guess the family will have to decide. The family will have to decide. What do you guys make of the whole situation? I mean, Max Miller should be in prison, not Congress, period. Um. He is lying, abusive scum. This is not the only instance of him being accused of abuse. He was accused of beating his ex-girlfriend, Stephanie Grisham, who worked in the Trump White House. She said he threw her up against a wall and slapped her. Politico reported that Miller pushed a female high school classmate down a flight of stairs because she refused his sexual advances. There's another alleged incident of Miller abusing a woman in college. We don't really know the details there, but it's been mentioned in court transcripts. He had a bunch of violent fights and incidents in high school. They're in his early 20s. So this guy is, uh, clearly has a pattern of alleged abuse. Um, and I think that should be enough for him to be thrown out of Congress. But Republicans have not, most Republicans either just duck the question or, you know, want to preserve their majority. Now, like, there's a lot of focus has been put on Bernie Moreno, um, and his response. He's the Ohio senator. His daughter is the one making these allegations. I think my, my gut reaction when I read his, when he wouldn't respond was like, that he had failed his basic job as a father and was a coward and, um, to really condemn him more than others. The more I thought about it, the more I was like, I don't know. You don't know what's happening inside a family. You don't know what his conversations with his daughter are like. You don't know the fear that he could have about his granddaughter who had joint custody. So I don't know. I feel like I need to dial it back a bit. And he was talking about his wife, Emily's mother. Yeah, it's complicated. And like, she was really upset. And so I think he didn't. I mean, but like, whatever, he got it done. But like Jim Jordan was on, uh, Congressman Jim Jordan was on TV, um, and was asked about this, I think it was CNN or maybe it was MSNOW, um, and just absolutely will not draw a moral line in the sand for this man who's clearly a fucking scumbag. Well, Jim Jordan has sort of a history of refusing to do that. Yeah, the, the, like the, the, the statement from Bernie Moreno makes clear that he felt like he was trying to avoid speaking out about it on. His daughter's behalf. Trump, uh, is refusing, uh, to condemn him, which is leading to no one else being willing to call on him to resign. If he doesn't step back by Wednesday, I believe he'll be on the ballots. Uh, so, uh, he's hanging on now. If Matt, Max Miller seems to have this history, he's obviously there are these allegations in this marriage, there's allegations in previous relationships, allegations of other violence in the past, whatever bit has been said publicly. That means. That there are that, that like Stephanie Grisham was, was close to Donald Trump. That means that there are people it that like the senators are aware of this. Other members of the house are aware of this. The white house is aware of this, that this guy is fucking the violent piece of shit. And they have all just been what silent about it, ignoring about it, keeping their heads down. Trump called him a good person. He's basically a character witness. Should say to that, um, what broke this whole thing open was Abby Vassoulis of mother Jones party there. Like she broke the story on July 18th where she just went through all of the court documents that were out. There and all the filings and it is, I mean, it's, it's a tough read, but like a child protection specialist reviewed the incident, characterize the bruising near the fracture as resembling a handprint. Now Miller's story is that the daughter, it was a seatbelt that like the car stopped short, whatever the Emily Moreno doesn't believe this of course. And then the child protection specialist said it's a handprint. And um, apparently the, the daughter said daddy's house is scary, uh, to her mother. And also he contradicted himself in the court. I don't know. I don't know what he said in the court filings. Cause first he said he didn't pour hot water on her neck. And then he said in the next sentence, well, the water incident, I never thought that that hurt you. There's no horseplay with boiling water. No, which is basically admitting that it was – that he actually did it. So he's a liar. He's had a violent past. He obviously should not be believed. And it is crazy that Republicans are not immediately calling for this guy to drop out of Congress – drop out of the race, let alone Congress. Yeah. It's disgusting. I mean like – Doing that to a two-year-old makes you want to drive over to his house with a baseball bat and solve it that way. But I mean that's the part that's like – the whole story is absolutely sickening. This is an evil person. I hope they indict him and lock him up. And I hope every single Republican is forced to have to answer the questions about this and like – and just stammers into the fucking camera because none of them can cross Trump because Trump didn't tell him to drop out. It's not just him. I mean there's a guy named Corey Mills who's another Republican from Florida who was accused of some sort of physical abuse of a woman. He was also accused of like sex torturing. He was accused of like abortion and threatening to release nude images of her. And Republicans, again, they just pretend this is not happening. I mean he's under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for like some sorts of violations. But no one is calling for his expulsion. And it's like with Miller too. He's like, well, I'm not going to drop out for people who want to try this in the court of public opinion. It's not being tried in the court of public opinion. We have actual court-court documents. That's where it is. Like we have filings from court. We have testimonies. This is not just hearsay that people are talking about. There's actual documents about this. Fucking asshole. Pod Save America is brought to you by AG1. Summer means enjoying yourself and taking it easy. Maybe some of your wellness goals took a backseat in the process, but that's okay. Now that you're getting back on track, make AG1 the non-negotiable part of your routine. One scoop, eight ounces of cold water every morning before the chaos starts. AG1 helps to maintain energy and fortify immune health. It's clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre- and probiotic superfoods and antioxidants. Even though summer is your license to chill, AG1 helps keep one thing consistent. High-quality nutritional support every single day, no matter where you start your morning. The next-gen formula delivers 75-plus ingredients, clinically shown to improve key nutrient levels within three months. 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Over 60, Stevens is leading 53 to 39. And, like, that is, like, remarkable. That is a crazy gap. And it just, like, whatever happens in this race, whether or not Haley Stevens and, you know, whatever, 30 to 60 million, whatever number, from APAC in ads, plus concerns that Abdul will lose to Mike. Whatever it is, whatever eking out a victory that is possible tomorrow, like, this tells you the direction that the party is going. And if people want an alternative to left candidates. Or if they think the left candidates don't represent their point of view, like, I think we've seen over and over again that unless there is a center left that can. Or center that can offer something more exciting, persuasive, optimistic, something for people to, like, grab onto, I think, though, like, the establishment will keep being surprised by when given the choice between our candidate or else. Like, people keep choosing or else. Yeah, I think so much of the conversation about this race is focused on the meta stakes and what it means for the party. And also. And also the exchanging of barbs, you know, the attacks and the money. Sure. A lot of trading. APAC and stuff. But I was reading this New Yorker interview Abdul did over the weekend during my own little brush with the healthcare industry in this country and how fun it can be. And I was reminded why I'm so excited about his candidacy. Like, he is a fundamentally optimistic, hopeful guy who brings real expertise as a doctor and a health professional to the job. Not R.K. Jr. level. No. He is, like, an incredibly talented speaker. He's a good human being. We're lucky enough to know him. And I'm just. It just reminded me to be excited about him and the fact that he could potentially be a U.S. senator. And, you know, there was this graph in the story that really just jumped out at me that I wanted to read about. Because he talks about how his story and his parents' story is only possible in America. This sort of, like, fundamentally patriotic, optimistic story. And then he. Which is, like, why he is hopeful about fixing the broken U.S. healthcare system in his optimism about America as well. He says, the thing about America is that we don't do things like other people. We do them better. I love that about our country. And that's obviously very, like, Obama 08 coded and part of why I like it. And I think there's a risk of just cut and. Not cut and pasting, but, like, you know, that rhetoric from that era. It was a different time. The world is. The electorate now is in a darker place. Ecom inequality is worse. Younger people. People feel even more hopeless about the system, about the economy, about their prospects in life. So you don't want to just kind of, like, repeat, you know, the Obama era optimism. But I do think. Because it could sound naive. But I do think that what Abdul is getting at is talking about problems and systemic challenges. But then giving people some hope that he actually can fix it. Or that we have the capacity to fix them as a nation. And I think that has been missing in a lot of the political debate that is either just about Trump or about how, you know, cooked we are because of capitalism. Yeah. The national discourse has sort of lumped in all the left candidates together. It's like, you know, they're all socialists and they all believe the same thing. And it's all, you know, none of them are going to be able to win. And, you know, some have pretty extreme positions. And we've talked about them before. And, you know, I've been even critical of some of, you know, the way Abdul has said some things, too, in this race. But I thought that was the. I thought this was the best interview that he has given. And if you are open-minded and still unsure about Abdul, like, I would absolutely read this with David Remnick in The New Yorker. I thought it was really, really great. It's going to. Look, if Abdul wins the primary, if the polls are correct, it is going to be a difficult general election. And, you know, the gold standard poll in Michigan came out over the weekend and has him down a few to Mike Rogers. And Haley Stevens performed better in that poll. I don't think that means he can't win. By any means. But I think that what he's going to have to do to be victorious is exactly what he did, I think, in that interview and talk like he did in that interview. And because it shows a love of country. It's like a liberal patriotism. He talks about how he's a capitalist. He talks about. He's criticized Obama in the past, as we know. He was very complimentary. And he just. He seems extremely thoughtful. Like, he just didn't get into this race because he wanted to, like, throw out slogans and all this kind of stuff. Like, it seems like he has fought all this stuff through, especially. Yeah, he's just a really, really smart guy who is, like, hands-on experience tackling these problems and will be really good at the job. And it's exciting to think about not just how these people campaign, but what they'd be like in the job. And I think post-primary, assuming Abdul wins, we don't know, but a lot of the polls suggest he will. He will have to do a lot of work to kind of get back Haley Stevens supporters. I think he's done a really good job in recent weeks of kind of tamping down supporters who cross the line, who, like, make fun of Haley Stevens in ways that are just sexist or inappropriate. inappropriate or just mean, um, there's gonna have to be more of that, you know, like after When it looked like Bernie was winning in 2020, a lot of his supporters were telling other people to bend the knee and shit like that. And it's just like such a toxic, terrible way to consolidate an electorate. And then it'll be incumbent on everyone, no matter how bruised their feelings are, to just remember that this is about winning the Senate seat and denying Mike Rogers this election and making it a referendum on Trump. Like a vote for Rogers is a vote for Trump. And Rogers is trying to kind of avoid all hard questions. Like I don't know if you guys saw. Did you see the semaphore thing? Yeah, he won't talk about the weaponization fund. He wouldn't comment on Iran. So Nicholas Wood did this interview with him. How would he vote on the multiple Senate-approved measures to condemn President Donald Trump's tariffs? I don't know. Where does he stand on Trump's anti-weaponization fund? Quote, I'm not talking about any of that stuff. I don't care. I mean, I care. As for the Iran war, he said he'd heard, quote, hardly anything from constituents on the trail about it. This guy has been living in Florida. Florida, yeah. So he retired, bought a house in Florida, tried to run in 2013. In 2024, lost to Slotkin. And now he's trying to revive himself again. So, like, yes, he definitely should tie him to Trump with good reason. But, like, Mike Rogers just as a character on his own is just looking to be defined right out of the gate. And I think that, like, if I – that's, like, number one on Abdul's list or if Haley wins her list. As part of the corruption story of, like, Trump. Like, this is a guy who was in government, lost, left, and went and made a bunch of money, you know, like, helping out the industries he used to regulate. Yeah. This whole idea that he is maybe more moderate. Or more old school Republican establishment than some of these guys. Like, I think that the corruption and the tie to Trump and just sort of the, like, out of touch sort of vibes he gives off from having been in Florida for a while and not really caring about all these issues is a real weakness for him. But it's got to be exploited. Yeah. Like, this is where sometimes there's just – we're going to have to do politics. Maybe Abdul starts a little bit further behind than Haley Stevens would. Okay. Do you believe in politics? Do you believe in the ability to persuade? Do you? Do you think Abdul would be a better senator than Mike Rogers? I do. Do you think it's more important to have a Democratic Senate than any criticism or concern you might have about Abdul's being further to the left than you? I do. So maybe other people can be persuaded of that as well as long as everybody kind of after this primary is over figures out how to come together. Like, there have been moments in this – look, there's – the left is a big, fractious group of people. There have been moments in a lot of these primaries where it is clear that some people who are part of these primaries care more about winning factional fights against Democrats than they do about actually beating Republicans. There have been bad moments in interviews where I think Abdul has reflected that aspect of the movement. But when he is at his best, when he is speaking about what governing can actually do, a kind of broad and optimistic vision for the country, I think, yes, that is somebody that has – absolutely can kind of build support in Michigan, especially with someone who's supposed to be, like, the toughest one to beat Mike Rogers. Like, come on. Like, I think that – I think, like, everybody needs to, like, kind of figure out how to come together and then make that argument. Last thing before we get to my conversation with Francesca Hong. I promise you we do not enjoy. We're talking about Ken Martin and the drama at the DNC. But unfortunately, the news keeps on coming. The latest is a story from The New York Times in which Paul Rivera, the personal friend to whom Martin assigned the fabled autopsy, claims that when Martin did finally release the report, he omitted a chapter that Rivera wrote titled, What Happened in 2024? It seems like something you'd want in a report about what happened in 2024. Just a minor detail. The chapter criticized Biden's decision to run for re-election. It is perhaps, quote, the single point of failure for 2024. It also criticized senior Democratic strategists for being too rich to understand the struggles of most Americans. Rivera gave The Times the full text of the allegedly missing chapter. Martin denies ever seeing or knowing about it at all, despite Rivera saying he handed him a binder, a three-ring binder with the chapter in it. So this pits two incompetent people against each other who have also been, well, at least in Ken Martin's case, deceptive in the past. So even if Ken Martin is telling the truth, this is part of the reason that you don't lie to people, because it is hard to believe you when you haven't been honest about everything in the past. I just want to read the first line in this supposedly sort of this secret and damning chapter. American politics is a study in inflection points. It sure is. Boy. It sure is. A land of contradictions, I find. What did you guys make of the whole thing? I am sure that to Ken Martin. This all feels very unfair. From this original sin of putting this guy in charge of the autopsy, getting something back that was sort of incompetent and that would create a bunch of controversy but not actually address our problems, deciding to not release it. Like, I see how at each step it's one mistake and it leads to others and others and others. Tangled web. And so there's sort of that cascade of mistakes. And then there's the sort of the cascade of the money going out to places where they don't. And so I think that's kind of what's going on in the world right now. And I think that's kind of what's going on in the world right now. Because you promised to kind of invest all over the place, including in the territories, people having questions about your fundraising and all of this sort of building on itself. And that now, even though there are parts of your program that you think make sense and are good, it's unfair because there's no way for you to gain purchase. You can't. The fundraising is anemic because people don't trust you. You need to have more money on the books. Otherwise, people keep reporting how much more money the RNC has. This guy comes out with a stupid fucking chapter. Maybe you saw it. Maybe you didn't. But it only proves that you were right, that his work wasn't worthy of release in the first place, even though people are mad at you thinking it's some sort of conspiracy. That all may be frustrating. Too fucking bad. We need the money. We need a DNC chair people can trust. You are not that. Whether it happens now or after the elections in November, it doesn't really matter. But the idea that this guy is going to be in charge of the Democratic National Committee as we head into the presidential is ridiculous. The original sin was asking your buddy, Paul Rivera, to do this report because he's just not in any way credentialed. To do. I think the last presidential campaign he worked on was in 2004 for Al Gore. John Kerry. Oh, sorry. John Kerry. Yeah, Al Gore's. I remember. Yeah. And then Rivera worked for this New York State Senate leader who was convicted of federal fraud and people who worked around Rivera in that era in New York State Senate said, first of all, it was a horrible period of politics for the Democratic Party's this corrupt, awful, you know, state Senate group. And then that Rivera personally was just sort of a weird behind the scenes guy who didn't. He didn't know what he did ever. He was in no way the right person to do this report. So picking that guy was the original sin. And then there was, as always, the cover up was worse than the crime and spiking the report and then lying about the report. And now Rivera said is now Rivera says Ken is lying about the release of this chapter. I don't trust either messenger here. I'm inclined. I'm inclined to believe that if this guy wrote this chapter, he would have given it to Ken Martin personally. Because why? Why would you lie about this? I don't think there was some strategic brilliance in this chapter, right? Or anything really worth covering up. But I think what this does is once again raise questions about whether Ken Martin is an honest person. And I don't think he is. And I think if you are stepping on rakes all the time and if you are lying all the time, you should not be leading the Democratic Party on top of all the fundraising failures. So, yeah, it's just this is a real fun. It's a fun weekend for anyone who wants to close the book on the 2024 election when we also have Hunter Biden saying his dad's debate performance was bad because he had cancer, but also still lashing out at anyone who said that that bad debate performance meant that he should have dropped out of the race. Wild thing to say. One would think that if the cancer was so bad and problematic that it would lead you to not be able to debate, it would mean you can't be president for four years. And it didn't just it's not just the type of cancer that manifests on stage in a national. It's crazy. Well, must be a relief that it wasn't a stroke. Yeah. I thought it was. Yeah. There was a scoop today from notice that Martin told DNC members on a members only call that he's convening a special finance committee to help with fundraising. So I don't know who's in that committee, but hopefully it works. If you're a state party. George Clooney. Yeah. If you're a state party and you are hanging on to Ken Martin because you get a check every month, it's something you have to realize that that check is going to stop coming when there's no money. Yeah. It's like two things can be true. It could be great that Ken Martin sent you a check and that you've been able to hire more staffers. Like that is important to invest in state parties, but also like you do need the money to do that, right? Like that's you have to fire them to raise the money. You can't there's no money. Right. Exactly. Um, which seems like a problem. Did you guys see that? Um, uh, you know, there's a lot of rapid response coming out of the DNC to try to defend their work they're doing because you look at a lot of there's a fantastic people at the DNC working really hard. This cannot be easy for them. Um, but one staffer put out a video where he's petting his cat and telling people that everything's, everything's good at the DNC. There's some background. Music. It was deleted. It was deleted before I had a chance to see it. To be honest, I never, I never actually got, I saw the still of it, but I never actually got to see the video itself. Sadly for me. Undelete the cat video. I liked it. It got attention. Yeah. Great. Yeah. No bad press. No bad press. Yeah. He was like stroking it. Like, it looks like it wasn't authorized if it was pretty sure it was unauthorized. It did have a, uh, I think an unintentional Dr. Evil kind of connotation. So when I was a kid, inspector gadget, the opening credits, there was a moment. Where you're, you're never see Dr. Claw is always petting a cat with one hand. And then there's a moment at which he runs up to a, the chair in front of a fireplace, spins it around and there's the arm, but it's attached to a spring. And then the chair blows up. Yeah, I know. And I thought as a kid that the villain was a chair with a spring attached to it and that he was trying to kill inspector gadget. Very literal kid. And I re yes, a lot of these things could have been diagnosed earlier. I think, uh, but, uh, I thought the never ending story was named that cause the credits were so long. - Oh, what a song. - It's funny that petting a cat is evil coded and petting a puppy is like the way you soften your image. Odd and smart. Yeah, Mike Vrabel at press conferences being like, what infidelity? Yeah, that's right. Anyway, more cats from the DNC. All right, when we come back, Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate, Francesca Holm. Hey, Dan Taberski here. I'm a podcast host, a journalist, and now with my newest project, the author of my own manifesto. Well, it's a manifesto about manifestos. My search for inspiration in a world that feels more infuriating, more out of its freaking mind with each passing hour. Manifestos are a call to action, an artful scream. They capture our anger and they try to do something with it. This is my attempt to take the manifesto back from mass shooters and nihilists and return it to its rightful place with the warriors, the visionaries, the regular folks with just the right amount of crazy. I compare notes with radicals, secessionists, internet trolls out for a laugh and punk singers screaming their guts out, all trying to turn their anger into the world they want to see. Listen to Manifesto wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Manifesto early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. That's X-E-R-O. It puts accounting payments, payroll, and analytics all in one place so you always have one clear picture of your business. With visual dashboards, Xero makes it easy to understand your cash flow, you know exactly what's coming in and what's going out so you can make smarter decisions that can help grow your business. Xero's AI can help you and even offer insights to help you make your best move. Learn more at Xero.com. Francesca Hong, welcome to Pod Save America. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. I know this has to be a busy week for you, so thanks for doing this. And just to start off, I think it is incredibly important for Wisconsin to have a Democratic governor because we can't have an election denier like Tom Tiffany in a position to certify or not certify the 2028 election. But since Republicans will spend an ungodly amount of money to defeat you if you're the nominee, to try to defeat you, I just want to make sure you have the best possible answers to what's coming. So I want to start with your 2020 posts supporting defunding the police, quote, as a first step towards abolishing the police, which in a separate post you said, quote, exists to uphold white supremacy. Now, I know you've said you're not running to defund the police. It's not something you can do as governor and that people's views can evolve. I'm wondering how your views on policing have evolved since 2020. My views have only become stronger in that I'm serious about public safety and I will not abolish, abolish the police. My views are that people are struggling right now and need basic needs met. And I want to focus on stopping violent crime and giving law enforcement the resources and the training that they need, but ensure that we are also holding accountable law enforcement that does not follow the law. Do you still believe that police exist to uphold white supremacy? No. When did that change for you? And like, what has changed in your thinking since you posted that in 2020? No, I think that when you talk to people who are most justice impacted, a mother who lost a child to police violence, people who have contended with injustices in historically marginalized communities. But justice also looks like making sure that we are implementing solutions and helping to change the material conditions of people's lives. So as a legislator for the last six years, I've had more conversations with people who are more directly connected to the problems and have learned that it is most important for a public servant like myself to make sure we're looking at sensible, practical solutions that will help keep communities safe. You said during this campaign back in May that there has to be accountability for people who commit crimes. And if you're a governor and people commit crimes, that quote, incarceration and law enforcement are the systems in place right now. You want to make sure that people don't commit crimes. You also said your long-term vision is a world without prisons. How does that work? What I know is attainable and the policies that actually meet the urgency of the moment and understanding the realities of it means that we have to ensure that we're funding our local governments, that we're bringing justice to victims. And what may have been more aspirational is not primary. What we need to do is make sure that all people all across Wisconsin have access to justice. Access to great public schools, out-of-school programs, mental health resources, and that we hold law enforcement accountable but also provide them with the training that they need to help prevent crime and stop crime. One place this could come up, I think, in the general election and, of course, if you become governor, you know, commutations are yours alone. No legislature, no courts. Would you commute sentences for people convicted of murder? You know, the last governor before Tony Evers to serve commutations, was Republican Tommy Thompson. And I believe that commutations moving forward, the system has to be designed by the folks who are also most impacted right now. And so, at this time, I would not extend a commutation to somebody who has murdered somebody else. If you're governor, you'll have something of a high-class problem in that one of the first things you'll have to figure out is what to do with a $2.5 billion surplus projected. Governor Evers and Republican leaders in the legislature, reached a deal in May that would have given people $300 rebate checks, property tax relief, special education reimbursement, and no tax on tips and overtime. Passed the assembly, you voted no, and then it died in the Senate. 80% of voters, including 82% of Democrats, said it should have passed, according to the Marquette poll. Why do you think the voters were wrong? We have to make sure that the people who are struggling the most have durable solutions and what they're doing What that bill would have done is not given a rebate to those who are on fixed incomes, to folks who are making under $50,000 an hour. That's over a million Wisconsinites. Those are people who absolutely deserve relief. And we were seeing these $600 and $300 rebates go to millionaires and billionaires. And I'm focused on making sure that everyday working-class people are not only able to get real relief through cutting property taxes, which we can do when we fund our schools, but also that folks are able to have access to good jobs, fair, affordable childcare, and free paid leave for all. And so for us, it's irresponsible if we don't think about some of the folks who need the funding the most. Tom Tiffany said he wants to return the entire $2.5 billion surplus to taxpayers. What specifically do you want to do with it? Would taxpayers get any refunds? Or what's your priority list? You know, you're fortunate enough to be governor and have a democratic legislature. I want to cut property taxes, which we can do by almost 44% when we add in a millionaire and billionaire tax. I want to make sure that we're investing in free childcare for folks across our state while also providing bridge payments so that our childcare centers can stay open. We need to invest in public education, but also have funds available to attack and to make sure that we are extending healthcare. I mean, Americans and Wisconsinites are risking losing their healthcare because of a bill that Tom Tiffany voted for. So healthcare education and ensuring that we're lowering taxes is what I'll be focusing on with that surplus. You're the only Democrat backing a one-year moratorium on data centers. You argue that the tax exemptions will cost the state more than $2 billion. Tom Tiffany says he wouldn't back a moratorium, but that he'd also end those subsidies and that people shouldn't have to absorb the higher-up tax. So why is the moratorium the better policy? And what's that contrast going to be like between the two of you if you're the nominee? The moratorium is what hundreds and thousands of voters across the state, regardless of political ideology, have been demanding because the scale and speed in which these data centers continue to grow, waiting for legislation in order for them to be able to be held accountable or wouldn't have tax exemptions. The current data centers that exist in our state right now receive hundreds and thousands of dollars in tax exemptions and do not have to pay a sales and use tax. The people of Wisconsin deserve to have community say and community control. That means ensuring that no utility costs go up, that we have regulations in place to hold polluters accountable, and that we aren't Foxconn again giving away billions of dollars in subsidies while creating very few new jobs and destroying a community in what they're able to do with their own property taxes and being able to grow their community. we should be able to have a say in making sure that Big Tech knows we're not here to sell out our natural resources and we're not selling out our state to Big Tech. Do you see the moratorium being lifted after a year? Under what conditions would you lift it? The big part is the regulations to make sure that we're holding those polluters accountable, that we aren't raising rates for utilities, and that the Public Service Commission and people who are approving these different projects are actually, we hold the folks who are going to be responsible in thinking about what the public good is instead of people who may be taking money from the utility companies appointed to those positions. I think it's important that we establish local control, but that there are statewide guidelines in having no tax exemptions and ensuring that data centers actually have to pay their own way and up front if they're going to build in Wisconsin. The last primary debate was pretty friendly with you and your primary opponents. And for people who are going to vote soon and they're wondering if they're trying to decide between you and David Crowley, who's your leading opponent in the primary right now, what's one place where the two of you disagree? We disagree on the moratorium on data centers. We disagree on ending the voucher program. I believe that public dollars should stay in public schools. We disagree on how much to tax millionaires and billionaires to ensure that we have enough revenue to invest in the things that Wisconsinites care about. Like child care, like paid leave, like public schools. And we disagree in how much we should be spending on removing or how much of the tax exemptions and corporate loopholes that we should be eliminating. Fortunately, Crowley has not been clear on which ones, which policies that he supports. So I hear you on the voucher program, like taking money away from public education. This happens all across the country. You know, there is a program now. There are about 30,000 kids in Milwaukee who are in that program. Their families are in that program. They're in that program. Their families are income capped. What does winding the program down mean for them? And what happens to those kids? What year does it end? Right now, it's important to establish accountability and transparency and educating folks about where their property taxes go. We have a bill that's ready that would include a property tax report. How much of those tax dollars are actually going to private schools? With the Milwaukee schools voucher program, that would be the last voucher program that we would phase out. And I believe it's important for folks to know that families actually can receive a tax credit for private school tuition. But right now, administration of that voucher program is costing our state over $1.2 billion. And so sunsetting that program for Milwaukee, for us, we're looking at at least the next second or third session. So that would be around 2030. But again, we want to make sure NPS is a partner with us and that the families who are in the program, that the education is not disrupted. And even when we put the caps on it, that doesn't mean that any of the students who are enrolled in vouchers now would have learning disruptions. So you're running as a Democratic socialist. A couple people have pointed that out. A few weeks ago, Marquette asked Wisconsin voters how they felt about that label. 54% of Democrats have a favorable view, especially younger ones. But when it comes to independents, only 13%. 52% have an unfavorable view of Democratic socialists. What is your plan for those voters who you'll obviously need to win? Do you want to persuade them to change their mind about Democratic socialism? Or do you want to persuade them that the label doesn't matter? I want to tell them what other Wisconsinites have told me, that it is about the solutions and not just the labels and the solutions that we are presenting that actually meet the moment to solve the problem. That the system is rigged against working-class people. And I will always put working-class people first. That fighting to fully fund our public schools, have free child care, affordable housing, and fair, cheaper health care looks like having someone who also understands the struggle right now. I'm the only wage worker, only single mom. I'm a renter, and I've worked in the legislature for the last six years. But I'm a public servant first. And I learned that from opening a business and running a restaurant, as well as being a wage worker right now. And so I think this is, is a lot about listening to voters and letting them know more about our solutions and ensuring them that I'm not here to expand a brand. I'm here to make sure that Wisconsinites get what they deserve. What is the best case for your candidacy that has nothing to do with any of what we just discussed? What else would you, what other pitch would you like to make? Since we've launched our campaign, we've learned that Wisconsinites all across our state, regardless of generation, race, faith, ethnicity, are tired and they're stressed. And they're frustrated. And when we talk about building a movement and transformative change, that we can have a state that invests in our communities, that raises wages and ensures that we're caring and protecting one another. We have now grown our movement to over 7,000 people who have volunteered for our campaign, hit over 110,000 doors, that this is a multi-generational coalition. And what's most excited is the support that's coming from younger voters, first-time voters, or people who are not in the community. And I think that's what's most exciting about this is that we have people who have not voted in elections for the last six, seven years. I think people deserve to have a candidate that they believe in and that they know is not only just fighting for them, but fighting alongside them. Francesca Hong, thank you so much for joining Pod Save America and good luck in this last week. Thank you so much. Take care. Take care. That's our show for today. Thanks to Francesca Hong for coming on. We'll be back with a new episode on Friday. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farrah Safari with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrienne Hill. Our team includes Matt DeGroat, Ben Hethcote, Jordan Cantor, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pelleviv, David Tolles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Discover a spectacular island destination with crystal blue seas, endless sunshine, and the cool Bahamian breeze. Baja Mar. Located in Nassau, Bahamas, offers your choice of three luxury hotels, the richly refined Rosewood, the playfully hip SLS, and the stylishly modern Grand Hyatt. 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