From NFL Star to Trump’s Secretary of HUD

What if a few minutes with God could change the direction of your entire day with pray.com you can begin each morning with powerful daily prayers inspiring Bible stories and messages created to strengthen your faith whether you need peace encouragement or a fresh start pray.com helps you make prayer part of your everyday life. Download the pray.com app today. Homelessness in the US is increased by nearly 30% since 2020 and the Trump administration is trying to do something about that. The man spearheading that effort also happens to be a former NFL star. In this episode our very own Cabot Phillips sits down with Scott Turner the US Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. He breaks down economic opportunity zones solutions to the homelessness crisis and gives some insight into what it's like working alongside the president. I'm Georgia Howe with Daily Wire Executive Editor John Bickley and this is a weekend episode of Morning Wire. Alright, we are joined now. Very special guest, Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Scott Turner. Mr. Secretary, thanks for being here. Great to be here. Thank you. We were just apologizing to you all for that you had to hang out with Michael Noel. We'll try and make this slightly more enjoyable for our audience who here's HUD and they have a general idea of what your job entails but maybe they don't know everything. Can you just explain for folks what your day-to-day looks like and what your broader goals are? For sure, HUD stands for housing and Urban Development. It was started in 1968 under Lyndon B. Johnson but HUD is more than just housing. We also handle disaster recovery, long-term mitigation, worker with FEMA and SBA. We also help in homelessness that we have going on in our country. We are very much involved in the funding from a continuum of care. Stay-in-point-as-all housing, homelessness, disaster. We have about 15 or 16 program offices, almost 6,000 people at HUD and a 83 billion dollar budget, you know, to help some of the most vulnerable people in our country. HUD is a very unique place that we have a unique mission and right now we're helping Americans about 1.5 million Americans last year to become homeowners through our FHA program, which is the first time home-buyer program and about 80% of those were first-time home-buyers and so we're very proud of that but one thing we're doing right now, cabitors were tearing down regulation in our country so that builders can build and buyers can buy. That's the top priority for us and to transform and revitalize the homelessness crisis that we have going on in our country to move away from housing first and to move to a treatment first. Not just to house people but get them housing and treat it and transform to a life of self-sustainability so those are some of our top goals. And for people getting to know you, you have a fascinating life story. So when your kid growing up in Texas, your track star, you go play football at Illinois, eight years in the league as a D.B., I'm sure you have dreams of playing in the NFL. Did you ever have dreams of being a member of the cabinet? You're a cabinet member. Did you ever think that would happen? No, that was not part of the dream equation back then. But I always have had a heart to serve people. I did have a dream of playing the NFL and I'm grateful to the Lord that I was able to do that, you know, for a long time. But I've had a heart to serve people whether it be in sport, in business, in ministry, in being elected and serving in the cabinet is a very, it's an honorable thing that's very humbling that the president would appoint you to serve the country as part of his cabinet and as something I don't take for granted. I take it very seriously. We have a lot of fun with it to help people in America, you know, to fulfill their God-given potential because I was able to because people came alongside of me to help me. And so that's what myself and our team do on a daily basis. So when President Trump gives you the call and you get appointed, what was his main directive to you? Was there any, did he just give you the reins and say, go wherever you want or were there main areas of focus that he wanted you on? Well, you know, and he appoints his cabinet, you know, the White House will have a legislative and a policy agenda for each cabinet agency. But this is our second time around. I also worked for Dr. Bing Carson, my predecessor who was a cabinet secretary. He was a 17th cabinet secretary. And during that time, I led the Opportunity Zone policy for our country. And so when we came back, many of us who were with Dr. Carson came back this second term, which is a huge blessing for me. And we have a tremendous trust with the president. He understands, heard, he understands FHA. And I gave him my four or five top priorities. We got the legislative agenda and we were often running. You talk about Opportunity Zones. I know you're in town with some Tennessee lawmakers to help expand the Opportunity Zones here. Can you explain for folks what those are? It's a very cool concept and you've been leading the charge on this for years now. What do these Opportunity Zones look like? So in 2018, the tax cuts and jobs act, which was a tax reform that the president signed into a lot of Opportunity Zone policy was a part of that tax reform. And so what it says is that if you have a capital gain, so let's say you and I you and I have a company, right? And we sell our company and we get a two million dollar capital gain. Well, normally you have to send money to Washington, to the Treasury, to Scott Bessett and pay taxes on that two million. We know Scott wants the money from us. Let's not give it to him. We'll do with it. And so these capital gains now because of the Opportunity Zone legislation, you can take that two million dollars and put it into a qualified opportunity fund that becomes a vehicle. And then that fund can invest in a qualified Opportunity Zone business, be it an operating business, be it housing, be it real estate. And if we leave it in there for 10 years, which that's the goal, leave that two million dollars for 10 years, let's say a double in 10 years now is four million. What are extra two million dollars that you pay zero capital gains on that? And then you pay a decreased amount on your initial two million. And so that was the incentive to invest in some of our most stressed communities across America, urban, tribal and rural. And so just to give the listener some numbers, the Treasury just came out with a report about $112 billion of private money capital gains have been invested into most stressed communities around our country. 500,000 new jobs, 400,000 new housing units. And this is the stat that I love the most is one million people have been lifted out of poverty off the poverty roles inside of Opportunity Zone. And so I'm excited. I'm grateful for the first iteration, but I'm excited that the working family tax cut has made Opportunity Zone permanent. Yeah, I think a lot of Americans hear that and they say, yeah, it makes sense that the private sector would have a better idea of what to do with that money in the Uncle Sam. One of the other areas that you're taking on is homelessness and trying to bring people out of that. And you've been vocal saying the best way to bring people out of homelessness is to treat the root cause. Right. And not necessarily take a housing first approach, but a treatment first approach. What's the difference between those two? Well, the housing first has been around since 2013, you know, and they set this up. They say, hey, housing first is going to get rid of homelessness in our country, but it really has been a failure. It has not gotten rid of homelessness. A matter of fact, homelessness has gone up, you know, in our country, there's been record funding, but yet record homelessness, almost 750,000 people a one single night this year, homeless on the streets of America. And so, the housing first model is a failed model. And as you alluded to, treatment first is the model that we want to go to. That's the transformation. What does it mean? Housing first means that you just build in a homeless industrial complex. You have people that are just warehouse that are homeless. They're still addicted to drugs. They're still mentally ill. And a lot of times they're dying inside of empty apartments, vacant buildings, empty hotel rooms. And so we have to get rid of that playbook and have a new playbook called treatment first. And what this means is that not only do we house them, but we get to the root cause, mental illness, drug addiction, we get it treated, we get people transformed and then back to our life of self-sufficient. And one of those efforts looked like, specifically, are there other specific cities that you're targeting? I know you've been in LA talking about some of the the failed policies there of just handing out baggies of drug paraphernalia to people and calling it compassion. And what are some of the cities that you guys are working in? Well, you know, because we're heard and we are working across the nation, you know, homelessness is all across our nation in urban cities, rural, tribal. LA is the greatest example of, yeah, you know, LA really has been the epicenter of homelessness. Los Angeles, California, but California as a state literally has led in homelessness for the last two decades. And so we're shining the light on it because there's been corruption, there's been fraud and waste and abuse of American taxpayer dollars. And that's going on around our country. I mean, so far, we've found about a hundred million dollars in fraud and waste and abuse just in the homelessness. And so we have to stop this, that's American taxpayer dollars. And so it's a nationwide deal. LA is just the latest example. At some point, I just accepted that I was going to be tired all the time. Kids work life. You get your seven or eight hours and somehow still wake up feeling like you barely slept. I figured that this was just adulthood, but I realized that what you're sleeping in makes a much bigger difference than what I ever gave it credit for. 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On that topic of money being used poorly, we know that there were Doge efforts that were targeting all sorts of different departments in the administration. There were cuts to HUD as part of that. Critics have said, "Hey, those Doge cuts, they put the most vulnerable Americans at risk because we're taking money out of an important department." Do you think that the Doge cuts that we saw in 2025 hampered your ability to serve Americans? Not at all. You know, that's kind of been the talking point of the liberal media, it's cuts. HUD has not cut. HUD gave opportunity to people in our personnel. We gave them two options or two opportunities to take early retirement and about 2,300 people took that option because what I said is, "I want people to be at HUD who want to be here to carry out this mission." We had about 2,300 people that took the DRP, which is early retirement. The team that we have now, the people that want to be there, that understand our mission, and understand the constituency that we serve. We have a Mr. Beat. We have $83 billion budget. We don't have a money problem. It has been a stewardship problem in the years ahead, in particular in the Biden administration. You think about $83 billion of American taxpayer money. That's real money. Now, it's how do we use this money properly and put this money for the intended mission for the people that it's intended to serve, and that's the focus you see now. What are some of the biggest differences for a lifelong HUD employee who's been there under numerous administrations? What is one of the biggest differences they would see from 2020 to 2024, versus now? Mission-minded focus. They lost their focus on the mission, and when I came in and said, "We're going to take inventory of every program that we have at HUD." And here's what we're going to ask, "Is the program helping us to achieve the mission that we've been called to achieve?" And if it's not, then we don't need that program. And if it is helping us to achieve the mission, how can we make it better? And so, we just refocused on the mission. We refocused, say, "Hey, political and career people. We are all here to move to one beat, one heartbeat, one sound, one mission." And if you have a question, ask it, because it's not about us, it's about the people that we've been called to serve. And so, I would just say a mission-minded focus. I've heard you use a few terms that kind of hint at your spiritual background. I'm talking about stewardship, and that's a term I often hear from my pastor. And you guys have done something really cool, which is not kicking out faith-based organizations that are trying to help serve the homeless and then help with housing. You guys have said, "Hey, we're not going to exclude you. We're going to try and bring you into the fold. Talk about those efforts." Absolutely. So, you know, before the government started helping our homeless neighbors, faith-based organizations have been doing it way before and doing a wonderful job. I've traveled around our country. I think I've been to 20 now homelessness organizations and many of them faith-based. And to see the results that they bring to Dream Center and LA, Union Rescue Mission, helping up in Baltimore, you know, and many more, there's those in Florida, these faith-based organizations that are treating people holistically, physically, mentally, spiritually, putting wrap-around services around them. Well, during the Biden administration, they were stiff on. They weren't allowed even to compete for grants or to come to the table. Well, we're changing it because we're bringing them back to the table because they have results that have been for decades upon decades of helping our homeless neighbors around the country. Men, women, and children, and veterans. So it's a new day, you know, for our faith-based organizations because they don't just talk about it, but they actually get the work done and that's what we want. I have to ask, because I think our audience is fascinated by what President Trump is like behind closed doors. That's one of the most common questions we get from our audience when we talk to folks like you. We're plugged in. What is President Trump like? Does anything surprise you about him as you got to work more closely with him? No, he's real cool. And he likes to sit around and visit with you. He wants to know about you personally. He wants to know if there's anything that he can help you with in your job. President Trump remembers people that work. If you talk to people that work for his, the Trump organization for all of these years, he knows them all. He knows their families, their children. He's loyal to them. And behind closed doors, he's a great listener. Like in our cabinet meetings, he wants everybody to speak, because he wants to understand what's going on in your agency. And he wants the American people to know what's going on in your agency. And if there's something that you need help with, then he wants to help you. If you go into the other office, for instance, and you sit at the Resolute Desk in front of him, let's say it's six or seven of you sitting at the desk. He's going to go to Cabot, Scott, Michael, Robbie, everybody. He wants everybody to be able to speak. He's not rushing you. He's not interrupting you. He wants to listen to hear what you have to say. And once he listens to everybody, then he comes to a solution. He said, okay, I've heard everybody, you know, we've gone back and forth. We've debated. Here's what we're going to do. And so here's a ability to listen and then to make a right now decision for the American people. It's really something I've never seen before. And he's really late back, lots of the time. One thing, most of the time. I would hope that he wasn't always late back because sometimes you got to drop the hammer a bit. One thing I've appreciated, as a member of the press, is how open the cabinet meetings are to the press. And our White House correspondent is often in those cabinet meetings. And it's nice to have that transparency. Pull me let you go. I'm a diehard NFL fan. I got to ask you some questions about your playing career or about the game now. Okay. We'll do a little rapid fire to end. We played eight years, first in Washington, then San Diego. Are there any receivers that you have nightmares about thinking back on your career of, oh, man, I hate it. I haven't a guard that guy. Who was the best you had to go? No nightmare. Bam memory. Bam memory. Yeah. Wayne Krabit from the Gets. Oh, yeah. It's a number one white lightning. I mean, we had, it was just a knock down drag out game. Yeah. And I mean, he's a great football player. He's tough as nails. He's a great guy too, by the way. I think it was my second year at the Redskins and we were playing the Jets in Washington and RFK Stadium and I was a slot corner and I guarded him the whole game. And he called two crucial first downs, you know, that to me, you know, if you catch the first down, you know, your career is just done, right? That's how you think as a young player. And at the end of the game, my wife is like, I don't know. I don't know if you're going to be here after this game, but Wayne Krabit really gave me a fit. You know, he didn't catch any touchdowns, but he called first downs, you know, which was enough. I believe Krabit was one of the few guys who didn't wear gloves either, which always stuck out to me. He was a tough dude. Yeah. Yeah, he's a tough guy. What about when you watch the game now? Any receivers you think, man, I'm glad I'm not playing anymore because I wouldn't want to have to guard him. Well, you know, it easy to see. It's a new game. You know, you got receivers now that are, you know, six, three, six, two, six, four, you know, they run a four, four and a 40. I can already, you know, you had Terrell Owens, you had Michael Irvin, you had Chris Carter, Randy Moss. You know, you had a few guys that were, these guys have a hall of fame by the way, big guys. They ran great routes. They were tough, but now on every single team, you have two or three of these guys, you know, and they're athletic. They can jump. They can run. I think what we had back in the day, I think we were tougher, you know, the rules were different. Yeah. We had hands on receivers. Yeah. Now, you know, they don't want you to do that. So it's a different game for the safety of the game, but it's, you know, Jermar Chase. Yeah. It's incredible. Yeah. Uh, CD Lamb is a guy who, he could play any position. Yeah. X, Y, Z. Yeah. And he's a guy. If you don't put your hands on him, it's done. Yeah. Cause he can run. He has great hands. Uh, and there's other ones, you know, that I like, but those two kind of stick out. As a cowboy fan, I, big, big CD guy, final question. If you had to go out and run a 40 today, what are we looking at? High fours. They probably have four, four, low four, five. Okay. I say that. Uh, what did you run when you came out? 4.24. No, you didn't. I did. Okay. So you're, I mean, that's, that's like D on level right there. Yeah. I had to. I had one shot. Yeah. Yeah. I was a guy. Yeah. Okay. So we'll say, maybe we can set that up. We can have everyone at the daily wire. I don't know if we have too many athletes around here, but we get like a 20 yard head start. 40 on the 40. Maybe 10. Okay. We'll be 10. I'll give it to you. All right. Secretary Turner. Thank you so much. Thank you. We appreciate your work. Thank you, brother. Thank you. Speaking with HUD Secretary Scott Turner, and this has been a weekend episode of Morning Wire. What if a few minutes with God could change the direction of your entire day with pray.com? You can begin each morning with powerful daily prayers, inspiring Bible stories and messages created to strengthen your faith. Whether you need peace, encouragement or a fresh start, pray.com helps you make prayer part of your everyday life. Download the pray.com app today.