From Into The Gloss to Contrapposto with Nick Axelrod-Welk

The following podcast is a dear media production. Today's guest is someone I've known. Oh my God. Forever! This is my very first job in New York when I worked at People's Revolutions. Nick was an editor, a woman's very daily, and then Al and he was one of the people I was always sending samples to. From there, he joined Emily Weiss to help build into the gloss, the site that basically changed how we talk about beauty. I mean, this was so instrumental at the time, absolutely life-changing, and he was part of the founding team behind Blossier. Then he went on to co-found Necessaire, the Body Care brand that made us all care about our bodies just as much as our faces, products that I use literally every day. Later, he formed Home Courage. Now he's back with his new venture, ControPosto, which blends a medical spa with a beauty brand because his gorgeous fabulous husband runs ControPosto in LA, which is like the she-kissed place to get a little bit of injection, blazers, anything. He sees fabulous. Nick is one of the smartest, most stylish people that I know, so please, please, please enjoy. Oh my God, I'm so happy here. By the way, I'm honored that you're here. I'm happy to be here. I've known you since people's revolution. So I was going to remember when we met. 1,000%. Well, you, so I actually worked at Women's Wear Daily in the Fashion Closet. I very briefly was like the only person checking in and checking out clothes, polaroids, etc. And you were on the other end of the email being like, do you have the, who was it, Nicholas? What was that brand that like, there was Camilla and Mark, Camilla and Mark and in Subi. I had. Subi. And you were like on the other side of the email. Very Scott was in the back. Yeah. I saw Robin Berkeley last time I was in New York and we just like are always like, I'm trying to get Kelly on the podcast. I keep like missing. You have to get Kelly on the podcast. No, I have no, it's happening. But I think she's still doing so many things. She's a busy, powerful, like she's always, there's that woman. People become successful because people don't get this. People become successful because they can't not work. And they like don't say no, and they don't say no. So she was like, because of the shows that I used to have to go and do, I feel like that brand is having a runway show. It would be like, Canada Goose, you know, and this is 20 years ago. I, your name, who else's name the other day that I was like, oh my God, I remember this name. And there was like a few names that Robin would like to scream at me across the room. Like, you need to know who this is. Oh, I'm blanking. He's like, so chic and he has a podcast. He lives in New York. That could be any gay person. I know. Gay Gorgeous lives in New York. He has a podcast. Fuck. A male. Yeah. Yeah. He was an editor at all. It'll come to me. But now we, like, we DM all the time and he's always like, has a crush on diabetes. He's like, oh, he's so high. So hot. And I was like, God, I remember being so nervous around you because it was so important to me to get like our brands in the fucking now. How did you get into people's rev? So when I, so I lived in New York, I went to Parsons and lived there. And then I moved back here for a second, but I wanted to work for her. And, but I didn't want to work when the show was happening because they didn't want to be like on a show. And the show ended. And then post show. This is post show. Oh. I'm not, I, yeah, I was like, I'm not doing that. And then there, I was trying to think of what this was. There was like a red carpet event at the Roosevelt. I think it was like, it wasn't like the kids' team choice. It was like some awards show that was like a big deal. And I, people's rev was doing it. And they needed people and all I like on the ground and some mutual friends was like, you should have Pia do it. And I ran the carpet. And I never done a carpet before. But I did all the press and all the celebrities for the carpet. And Kelly watched me do it. And she was like, God, she was like, who are you? And I like Pia. And she was like, are you Scorpion? I was like, I guess she's like me too. She's like, you need to come work for me. So I did a ret, so I worked at Women's Word Daily when you were people's rev. One of the things that I had to do, like I was like the lowest man on the totem pole. So there'd be like a junior knitwear convention. And they'd be like, you have to go cover the junior knitwear convention. Or like, it would be like, I would go to like the junior knitwear convention. And I would go to like some random-ass fashion show that was at the end of the earth. And I basically worked my way up very, very slowly. What was your title there when you left? I was a reporter who covered media and I covered the, what else did I cover? So at Women's Word Daily, the funny thing about working at a trade publication is that there is someone who covers everything. So if you're coming in new, meaning like, it's just the fashion and beauty industries. So like, there's someone who covers junior knits, I think that person was probably out that day. There's someone who covers like furs. There's someone who covers jewels or some, you know, whatever. So like, you have to kind of figure out like where, like what is the, like, where's the opportunity? Like, what is no one else covering? And I really quickly figured out that if I could find a musician who was cute and could wear clothes, then the fashion editors could do a fashion shoot on the musician and I could write the story. What musicians were you doing? So the first one that I pitched was Katy Perry. I may say. She was a good ass at Katy Perry lady Gaga. And to be fair, like, I knew her personally. And so I was sort of like doing her a favor at that point. And she had just come out with like, I kissed a girl and I couldn't write it because of a conflict of interest. Like, women's wear daily was very, wow, journalistic, very like ethical. I knew her. So I could write it. Did you study journals in school? No. I even, I went to Brown and studied urban studies. I didn't even know that journalism, what, like, I didn't know that you could be a writer and not write books. And maybe that's because I'm an idiot. And I think it's also because like the Brown career services department was like, we can't help you if you don't want to go into consulting basically. So I had no idea. Did you love Brown? I love Brown. My dad calls it like a reward for, you know, like working really hard in high school. Like it's just, it's just kind of like a pleasure. Yeah. I have like Brown is so romanticized. And Duke, which I know where your husband might, because I had one of my best friends went to Duke when I was a Parsons and I would go like, hang out at Duke. And it was just like, I was like, this is a fucking fantasy. Really? It was scared. I went to Johns Hopkins, my freshman year, which is in Baltimore. And it was the first time I'd ever been below the Mason Dixon line. My mom's rule with me looking at colleges was like, couldn't go below the Mason Dixon line. I'm from like a liberal family in New York. And the south is crazy. So I wouldn't even look at Duke. And when I've gone there, like, when my husband was there for grad school, I don't know. I don't know. We would sit on the grass and it would be like groups of people from all over the world like hanging out in like it's amongst these like beautiful buildings that look so like I was like, I'm literally in dead poet society, like that level of intellect and kids just like dying to search for their meaning in this like, I mean, I what we like drove in saw clips play like a small bar. That's so cool. That's so cool. Yeah. We had like a really good time. Parsons was so you're an adult. It's also like every like outlier from school who was like not it was like all the art kids who were not not even Parsons. I was at Eugene Lang at the beginning. So I was like a cute fun L.A. girl and like got to school to register for classes and I was like, I'm in the run place like right away. I was like, this is not for me and then transferred over. But it was, you know, it's definitely interesting now. I think none of this fucking shit matters. And you know, going to college at that time, it was like, it was like so world building. Yeah. The only time I agree that none of it matters. And now I work in beauty and it doesn't, it doesn't matter at all. The only time that I was asked where I went to college was when I worked at ETA, the town agency. Oh my God. I think it's one sort of like one of the last of the stages of like places that like that matters. And it's sort of like something that people want to hear, you know, whether I don't even know if it's like clients or anything else, but it's like the, it kind of does. And it was, it was like funny. I was like, wait, I guess it, you're like, I forgot, it went really cool. I feel like it is good. But no, it was just like, it was, you know, smoking pot. I didn't smoke pot on the quad, but it was like smoking pot on the quad. And there were like crazy sex parties. And it was, it was, it was called sex power god. Tucker Carlson did a expose of sex power god when I was in college, I think. And he sent someone like undercover. Wow. Do you remember this? No. Yes. I'm going to let this be entirely like this sex party. And I think that was the end of sex power god. Oh, wow. That's a shame. I know. Did you ever go to one? Look at me. I know. I mean, not like not look at me like, how could I, but I'm too anxious. Yeah. You know, and this was before prep and I was like, you know, you know, and this was before prep. not I'm not putting anything anywhere near anywhere that that could expose me to anything. What was your title at L at so I went from women's wear daily I was a media reporter so I basically found myself in this weird position where there was a job open on the media desk it was called memo pad and it was basically like the page six of media like you know Anna win tours firing this person this person's getting hired like I interviewed Kelly Catrone for like when she had her book if you want to cry go outside I interviewed Andre Leon Talley when I worked on media but so it was the one job open and I was and it was a really cool opportunity because it gave you access to like the powerful people in the industry we are entering holiday zone guys and during this time of year there's lots of health concerns pop up you know there's so much stress there's so much anxiety so much eating out my kids go to school and every weekend is a birthday party or dinners out or all of those things and then all of a sudden I just feel like I was so content and happy and feeling so good and then it's always been like I'm running on stress and I used coffee and like just eating whatever's on their plates and then I noticed that it wasn't really checking in on myself the way that I was previously and getting annual testing is going to help you stay on hubby health so much I literally just did this I did a bunch of panels because I've been really tired lately I thought to myself like how can I enter like Scorpio season Thanksgiving in the holidays feeling this tired I can't so I did what I did a couple months ago which was life changing for me and I went to lab corps on demand so I purchased a hormonal test from lab corps on demand you do not need a doctor's appointment to purchase the test you just go online literally in minutes to get the test it comes in a couple days you go to a lab corps and your neighborhood to get a sample collected and then a few days later I was notified by email that my results were ready and honestly it felt absolutely incredible and so empowering to 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select tests that's on demand dot lab corps dot com slash best and use code best that is on demand dot lab corps dot com slash best use code best you're going to get your test it's going to come in the mail you're going to go to the office you're going to quickly get a little pokey and within days you're going to get accurate incredible results so you can be proactive about feeling your best with a new season underway it is a great time to get the baseline understanding of your health so again that's on demand dot lab corps dot com slash best and use code best know yourself hi i'm allie and this is two parents and a podcast welcome to our home sorry it's so dang messy here's the thing we're two parents and we're raising two kids and we're figuring out life as we go and this podcast is where we talk through all of it we talk about the real parts of parenting think potty training sleep tantrums and everything in between but as you guys probably know parents don't want to talk about parenting 100% of the time so we also talk about marriage plus pop culture and occasionally the s and p 500 and no it's not financial advice it's for anyone who's ever felt like they don't have it all figured out because guess what we definitely don't do episode stop three days a week every Monday Wednesday and Friday anywhere that you listen to podcasts and don't forget to check us out on social at two parents and a pod but you and i like we came up i called it like the same class like we were in the same class of like fashion fashion media people pre-instagram pre-instagram and this is a perfect way to say way into the story i want you to tell about so we keep because we're so excited but you were at womans were daily and then you went to l and after l you and Emily were besties and so yeah so basically at womans were daily it was across the hall from uh w magazine and we had become best like Emily weiss and i had become best friends like while are you still friends we are still friends like she was packing trunks for some w editor i was like sifting through you know junior nits at in my closet and we just like kind of became best friends like literally as assistants she was a w i was womans were daily i went to l she went to vogue and she uh started into the gloss as this blog um she would post from like five a.m until seven a.m you know before she went in to her day job at l or at vogue i remember people complaining at vogue at the time that she was like using her connections at vogue to benefit her blog and it was like very controversial here's the thing and i i was talking to Lauren Sherman the other day about this and the thing like probably the number one thing that i learned from Emily and you can obviously learn from friends and bosses and everything but like the the most like the thing that i rely on the most is she would ask like most people don't ask she has no like she had no shame in asking like the worst that can happen is you get a no and i remember like once when i so basically i told my dad i was like how about i quit my job at l last time i had corporate health insurance and i go to Emily's studio apartment and we like i i feel like we can blow this up into a big thing we can start publishing every day what gives you the confidence that media was going to shift into that kind of that consumers were wanting this more like that the blog because i had a blog at the time and i remember going away from it thinking like there's no way this is going to be a thing and you guys might ten toes down so i so women's or a daily office was on third avenue in New York City two blocks from the women's or a daily office was layman brothers and i remember sitting at my desk and the collapse of layman brothers happened i remember being like it's just like men crying outside men crying outside with boxes and just being like oh wait this is over like the the media and like like this idea that you could you know work your way up to this like title that's like really the matter would also come with a black car and you could get you know sign new house to get you a down payment on a brownstone in Brooklyn and you could sort of be this like master of the universe editor in chief like i just remember sitting at my desk and being like i don't think this is possible anymore i miss it i mean it was i imagine that like you were like literally i now it's it's sort of laughable to think that someone in media could become so powerful i mean in old media but i i like that was sort of the first thing i'm not i mean me getting screamed at yeah at people's revolution because i didn't i was doing production and casting before and i never done pr and the fact that i didn't have every editor memorize like that was like my homework yeah it was like they ran fucking new york city it was like a very fun now that like i feel like in the last 10 years you've seen them all become like influencers and i was like you were the most powerful person in the world this is like not only pre-instagram this was sort of pre-internet yeah like and not to really date me but like i like remember when we like launched wwwd.com like it was it was it was before all of that it was like a moment where you could really sort of yeah you could make a name for yourself in this very ephemeral but very fancy seeming industry would still also remember in the office you know people would be like obviously like slightly competitive about you know what stories they were getting it for their clients and i remember like one of the women in the office being like oh i got marhoffman unlike pop trigger.com and robin was like yeah that's cool like i got oh i got Greg Lauren like in the new york times like it was like i don't care about your like online article it was like still very much like had to be in print to be impactful and i and i think that like i sort of start and then i kind of took that with me when i went to l and i was also seeing how ad sales worked so like one time i was at l and i was sent to Venice to cover some like it was during the Venice film festival i was sent to Venice you know on business class my first time you know flying business class - Let's imagine a favorite of C. - Let's imagine an Edward Almack, they'd be saying. - Well no. - Oh, here's the thing, is Gucci paid for my ticket. - Oh. - And I remember thinking. - Ad. - Like ad. - Like I remember thinking like there's-- - The paper had half the money. - There's like a transaction happening that I'm nowhere near. You know, like I'm, and you know, like in media, was always the thing on the lower levels you weren't getting paid well. It was like just a step above minimum wage. And I just remember like having that also a moment of being like, okay, so Gucci's paying for my ticket. And like this, there's like a exchange of, there's an exchange happening that I'm not a part of. And I think what I started to feel and sort of see with what Emily was doing into the gloss, like she got, like she launched the blog with a Lancome sponsorship. - She did. - She did. Carrie Diamond, who was the head of PR at Lancome, like she went and pitched her. And she was like, okay, cool, before like there were just like mock ups of a website. - God damn it. I hated them people like went through that whole, whatever, if I say this and someone's gonna be like, she was like, you just cannot undermine the power of somebody like her and what she created. 'Cause it shifted in entire fucking industry. That was unheard of at the time. - And she was really powerful at being able to do that. And so I remember just thinking, okay, if I, like she's now in this transaction, that is like the new, like I sort of felt was like the new, like that's, I need to-- - She's funny because she's, you could just feel her presence. She always knew what was going on. She was always asking questions. There's this like very observant kind of cool power about her, but she wasn't like one of those girls that you would, that's like social climbing. That was like, hi, I wanna like that, that, that, that. She was just like watching the room and like knowing-- - Absorbing the whole thing. - Back and cool. - And I basically saw that and we started building into the gloss together and it became a thing. And I ran the website and I oversaw ad sales and I feel like the last year that I ran into the gloss, we like had cleared almost a million dollars in ad sales. And it was like three of us. And it was the Ferret Michael Harper. He like was our tech co-founder. And I sort of like, I, at that point, I was like, oh, this is the future. And it wasn't like that I didn't like love this sort of like the glow of old media, but also what was cool that into the gloss is it was the thing, right? And it was like the sort of, you know, it went from being sort of a risk that I took to being quite the opposite. And then I kind of figured out how to create a brand out of into the, you know, from working with Emily from, you know, co-founding into the gloss. And then sort of. - Did you work on glossy? - Yeah, by accident, you know, because we were just creating, we glossy, or into the gloss was a brand. Like I think we all thought of-- - I thought you guys were gonna open up a store and be like, I saw our competitor. - Well, we wanted to do everything. - Yeah. - And you know, that was sort of part of the pitch that I made to Emily was like we can create the brand, we can start publishing every day, we can get New York Times writers writing about beauty. Like I love this idea of like having outsiders, like report from the inside. Like to me, that's what was missing from a lot of the editorial beauty coverage. If you think about like in the magazines, there'd be like a page dedicated to beauty. And it would be like lipstick swatches on white, not even on a hand. Like it, and we're like, how can I relate to that? It's not relatable, it's not selling the product, it's not actually giving people news that they can use, so to speak. And within to the gloss, like we started to realize we were sort of building something that felt bigger than that. And then I think for me, like I approach branding as like content. Like and it's sort of like the Nora Efron quote of like everything is copy. To me, like everything is content. So like when I think about creating a brand, it was like, okay, like who is this for? And how are they like interpreting it? Like how are they opening the package? How are they using the product? How like how what are they? What's like the clip that they're telling their friend about the product? Like what is this sort of, this is also before like shareable, really? But like what was like what would be shareable about the experience of using the product? And that's sort of like how I kind of glommed on to branding, I guess. - I mean, it was a Bible for everybody also. What you were also doing, whether you realized it objectively or not is like, this is when Instagram started becoming a thing and like human interest was such a big deal. So you were-- - And you could share. And it was like platforming. Like it was like, we were investing so much in people too, you know, which was such a big deal. - And the comments section. It was like the beginning of the comments. And so like people were talking to each other in the comments. Like it became this sort of like world unto itself, which I think also gave us insight into like what was missing. And also when you're spending, you know, hours in these famous or influential people's bathrooms like on their floor, you're also like getting these tips and tricks and insights that like are totally invaluable. And I think that, again, we fell in, you know, we didn't fall into making a brand, but I think we fell into the, how you do it. - Well, I mean, you saw you're hearing all day long. Like if I wanted to get a new mascara, I would always just go to into the gloss and type in mascara and I would go to the women who looked, you know, it's like when I grew up looking at like Cindy Crawford's basic face, like that was my Bible, right? So I would look at her book and be like, and so I would look at the girls that kind of looks like me or who I wanted to look like and I would buy whatever mascara they suggested. - Yeah. - It's invaluable all the information that you were getting and it became invaluable to all of us. I mean, the shell fee was like all of that was so brilliant. And I could understand how if all day long you're consuming, okay, this is what makes mascara great or like this is what creates a great concealer. This is what you, I can crystallize this into a product. - There's no way your brains are all like, well, if we, you know, now that we know all of this, like what's stopping you from putting all of that he's back together into a product. - And so, and I feel like the one thing that people probably get wrong or sort of miss the point of is it wasn't like crowd sourced products, like that wasn't the idea, it was what you're saying, which is like all of this input and not just on the product but on the brand of the like, oh wait, there's like an audience, a consumer here who is not being marketed to with a brand. There's not a brand that reflects like us and like the people that we're covering and who we are and these people who are getting this one little weird cream they found in an apothecary in Florence and then they're also doing this one-dwayne-read thing and then there's this one tom Ford lipstick. Like it was also the beginning of curation or curation given a big platform and I think I've carried that with me where like that, that sort of sea change of like, people wouldn't use the Clinique 3 step program. Like that wasn't a thing anymore. You would take pride in what you put together. - Correct. - And the joke was always like people would start their interview saying like, I'm really low-maintenance. (laughing) I'm not a beauty person, I don't use anything. But the amazing thing about beauty, which is why I like it more than fashion, is literally anyone has something to say. And they'll preface it by saying they have nothing to say. - That's so funny. - And that they're low-maintenance and I will do the same thing, but then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, but there is this thing that I use. And it becomes like really helpful information for people who have a similar issue with you or who have been looking for that thing. And like that piece of brand building, like I certainly carried with me. - I, like when I got asked to be on it, it felt like more important than like being asked me on like Vogue ring. Like I just remember like, if I made it. - Yeah, it was like a big thing. And it was like so traumatic when I left. - I was so at my literal next question. (laughs) What is gonna be what happened? - I mean, I was 24. - Oh wow. - Or 25. And like the right, you know, was either right person to be the head of a girl makeup brand? - No. - And like did I feel like I had sort of participated a lot in the development of it and had a right to be in it. And sort of, you know, and-- - That's not like a feeling, that's a fact. - It's a fact. - But I think, you know, time heals all wounds. - I remember at the time this being really traumatic, but it was, it was incredibly traumatic because I felt like, you know, I was in the middle of this like amazing, like meeting of media and fashion and beauty and tech. And like we were sort of getting all of this press and we were starting to raise money. Long story short, it was sort of like, there's one person who's gonna lead this company and knock knock, it's gonna be-- - Do you have equity? - I did and I do. You know, it was my first professional trauma. - Well, I had that with information. - I love, like having that-- - Everybody has that. - Everyone has it. Thank God it was sort of before the blogs and the comments and everything had really sped up. But like, you know, one day I was a co-founder of the Gloss in the next day. I was just Nick and, you know, it was, I spent two years licking my wounds. I'm just like, who am I if not the co-founder? of this thing. And I learned from that experience to never wrap your identity up with the thing you create because ultimately, even if you've created it yourself, even if you created it with a committee, whatever, it is not you. And it took me such a long time to sort of, you know, and maturing, but to realize that the sort of feeling of primal rejection that I had was actually like, it gave me the power to then, like, separate myself from the things that I create to a certain extent or just like have some psychic distance from the thing you create because it's not who you are. And like, I also, I think I realized that women were daily when I did the media column, I'd be on like a first-name basis with editors in chief. But I was never fooled into thinking that they gave a fuck about me. Yeah. They gave a fuck about what I was going to write. And so like, I was, I was only as interesting to them as I was valuable to them. And I think similarly, you know, when you leave this thing that's like the hottest thing in town and beauty and tech and whatever we were, you know, at brand CPG, we were building. No, because just, because maybe just to refresh everybody, it was the, you guys had completely changed the landscape. Yeah. Like, it's the only thing everybody was talking about. You had changed media. You had changed beauty. You had changed CPG. I mean, it was just a very big deal. So I can, I can, I cannot imagine, like, I went through the same thing with my formation. I was like, so not into the brand and then like, and then all of a sudden, when things start to take the next step and you're like, wait, what is my role here? I mean, I don't own it. I'm not the, it's not my thing. It's not my thing. And it's not, and, and you know, you feel at that age because you don't have the other experience to be like, there'll be another thing. Also, everyone's up your ass because of the thing. Correct. And then the next day, you have no, nothing to offer those people. And so all of a sudden, it gets a lot harder to get. Everyone's gone. And that's also like a great learning, right? But like, you know, you, and it's, yes, it's about like separating, it's about your identity and like, having a little bit more fortification around your identity so that it can't be pierced or like broken that quickly. But like 100%. Like, it wasn't my thing. It was never going to be my thing. It was Emily's thing. And she was phenomenal at doing that thing. I feel like with every brand that I've created, I've learned, I've like, been traumatized, but then learned so much about like, how to create something and about like, you know, resilience. Honestly, we still go through, the really two nights ago, top days like in Milan for like this meeting with, and like, and then someone else gave an opinion about this meeting he was going to. And then we were like, whoa, that's an interesting way to look. And then sometimes we're like, already, did any of the people actually care about us? Like, we just had this whole, and we were like, having a cocktail on Sunday, like at like, you know, whatever at lunch, and we'd like look to each other and I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. I was like, can we just be like normal people? It's just a constant mind. Another great lesson. Nobody cares. Nobody. Nobody cares. Everybody cares about themselves so much, which is fine. Like, when you're worried about, you made a bad stress impression with some of their thinking about themselves. And like, that, you know, like, I've grown incredibly thick skin because just like the startup world, but like, what I kind of, what it's come down to is that nobody cares. You know, which is great. Yeah. It's it. It's a lot of like, zoloft. And, you know, it's just like, you have to sort of tune that stuff out to build. Do you ever notice how most protein bars and granola bars claimed to be healthy, but they are packed with sugar and tons of unrecognizable ingredients? 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And when we were like thinking sitting on my couch, Casey and I were thinking it's an aesthetic medicine clinic. Casey's my husband. I'm gay. I've always been born that way. And we wanted a name for the clinic that like was not Casey Welk associates or like something that was about skin. We wanted something that was a little bit more abstract is a better way of putting it, not vague. And I started looking at like ancient Roman, ancient Greek, like that sort of stuff. And you know, I found this word Controposto, which is the fine art term that describes the pose. It's easiest to understand is like Michelangelo's David where the body is sort of in motion. One foot bears most of the weight and the other is sort of like at an angle. I love the visual you did of this on your Instagram where you have an image of him and then you show all the red lines of like how the angles of the body work. And it basically marked a moment in art where you know, it was considered more beautiful to have asymmetry and dynamism and all these things were actually more beautiful than like if you think about ancient Egyptian art where everything was like perfectly symmetrical. That was like the pinnacle of beauty. And I like this idea that like imperfection, something that's like slightly off balance was actually considered more beautiful. And then from then on, it became about depicting the body in motion. And my husband's like aesthetic and the way that he approaches aesthetic medicine is very much about, you know, preserving movement and like facial dynamism. And all these things that I wanted to have the brand embodying to work with him you have to and I want to well The two of you just keep getting like More and more gorgeous as you age in a way that is so natural and beautiful and it's like every time I see the two of you I'm like It's like you both look refreshed Casey says that I'm his greatest work. I love I've heard you know And I take it as a compliment 90s mark you look mark Jacob's adjacent right now Like I'll take it for just Are you so beautiful? So there's like there's like a job It was that moment with like when he was like working with Scott Campbell on all the statues. Yeah God I'll take it a time that we understand each other because yes, that's but now we're in fake nail era now We're in fake nail era has like the the ASMR nail stuff. No, but there's reason I did it myself I feel like I'm finally 20 or whatever 15 years after you find this yourself. Yeah Like I feel like you know 20 years whatever after into the gloss and and then you know co-founding necessary and having You're not involved in that anyway not anymore, but still I buy it. I pay money Really I do and so I I can Necessary is an unbelievable price. It's an it really incredible product. I'm a fucking product The deodorant that rosemary shampoo and conditioner is dovet. It doesn't have like he just uses whatever is in I love when He's like I like this because it has to be something. He just uses the best of the best all day long And has no he doesn't care that rosemary shampoo and conditioner and he's like mind blown by it's the the product and Randy Christensen who I co-founded it with came from la mayor has this like rigorous at almost academic training in marketing and product marketing and she Well, you know, she she and I we you know built this sort of structure the foundation of the brand But she you know brought that It was almost like like I say laudder creme de la mayor were like the condes asked of the beauty industry were like Basically to put it, you know what I mean like it was sort of like the Harvard where like you would be trained that like Product was king and that you really had to get the product right and that the only it's the biggest challenge and launching a brand was getting it in people's hands Because if you got in people's hands, you let the product do the work I think the problem that a lot of people come out come to is that If the product sucks you guys are paying people to talk about it and then that becomes very expensive and you're turning through you know People but I think but you know with Contra Posto I felt like I finally Had well, I had endured enough trauma. You also did home court. I did home court with which smells So fucking and Courtney and I had like I think it was like my most Beautiful creative collaboration like we just like really got each other on a taste, you know and style and Product levels of all those levels, but I was ready to do it something for on my own I just felt like I finally knew exactly what I knew what I know totally and exactly what I don't know Mm-hmm, and I'm like I've it's been laid bare in certain, you know board meetings or whatever, but like The the only benefit to all of those things is that you actually like get a sense of what you're good at and what you're not And I feel fundamentally that if I'm not doing the things that I'm good at and everyone else that I'm working with is not doing the things that They're good at and this is not gonna work Like for example like I shouldn't be looking I mean, I should be looking at spreadsheets because I now run the company But if I'm the person who's trying to like rebuild a financial model. We've lost the plot. I Am about to fundraise for baron cheney and I'm so proud of myself that I'm not like I'm the CEO of bear it. I was like I don't want that at all I'm hiring an operator who's going to tell me what to do. I'm not doing any of this shit I know what I'm good at and I'm not going to go you would have been like I need to be the CEO Yeah, cause also there's so much ego involved in this whole thing and I don't I'm not like worried about any of that because the product so beautiful I'm not in like a rut like if we've been doing it like slow, but I'm very much like this I know now how to like what the foundation looks like and it's not me being in charge and no and I think creatives oftentimes in these rooms get Shit on because because you're considered the person who doesn't understand business right like just by default and You know, I feel like maybe that was true when we were doing into the gloss and we were all like kids who have liberal arts Education and didn't take you know economist classes, but I feel like at this point You know, we've had to learn and we have There is there's a there's a side of me that is Analytical and like I've had to I've had to learn how to do that shit at least to assert next Yeah, which I think is empowering and helpful and amazing and I had a like a very famous founder one time tell me something That sounded so dumb and undermining and then I was like it's so true. She was like just be profitable And I was like oh Yeah, like and she applied it to like this other brand we were talking about and I was like Yeah, I was like yeah, that brand has like a hundred employees I was like what an inflated and like knowing how she works. It's like it's just like not that complicated like no When you see numbers on a page and like now Dobby day from the time he launched Guillaume We were like and now he I've just seen him the last two years like zone in so much be profitable. It's true It's like ultimately The but you need to make money. Yeah, and and whatever the thing The answers are there, right? It's like why you don't need to be using that and the art student at you know like a Parsons kid can understand and I feel like that was what I always found Complicated and hard to understand about venture is I remember one of the first fundraising meetings Emily and I were in for What would become Glossier? some one of the venture capitalists said oh that brand is doing incredibly well. They just raised 20 million dollars And I remember thinking to myself that sounds like I mean correct I'm like that sounds like you need to make 20 million dollars until you break even to turn a profit like it sounds Like you owe someone 20 million dollars and and but that's sort of what Companies and their founders were being judged on they were being judged on how much money they were raising What like Harvard and Stanford graduates? They were hiring so now you had all these like inflated salaries with these people that like No, nothing about fashion, but we're like making these decisions. It was it was so much about how many people you had in your office And like what your office looked like and how much it's and it also comes to I think the ego part of it can't be underestimated And I think that we've sort of seen a lot of egos be pierced and people flying too close to the sun or having you know like the idea of sort of hubris ripped across the world, but like yeah, you can't I have no shame and I have I've like sort of eliminated as much shame as I can to like just ask for things to try to get things But then also to not be cringe is one of my Most valuable Less it like you know or sorry to be cringe What's like they call it like climbing cringe mountain when you're an actor to like you have to like Summit cringe mountain. Yeah, and you'll be a good actor because you're just not worrying about with this right now with like I have to do more content for my fucking Instagram and I was like it's and I was like The cringe like people are just flying past me on to cringe mountain in their Ferraris And I'm just back here still like fuck me man And so you just you have to like be like I don't know how to do that you like I you know how to do that better You have to be like you know, and I feel like now I'm finally at a place in my career I know what I know. I know what I don't know. I know enough people and Formulators or perfumers to like get in the room and then it's my job And this is why I'm the founder to like convince them to work with me and to convince people to give me the best Like to the best thing. I'm guessing You started with fragrance clearly. I'm guessing this is gonna be a whole world It's gonna be a whole world. I started with fragrance frankly because I wanted to challenge myself I've never developed fine fragrance and like with fine fragrance. There's nothing to hide behind It's either good or it's not. It's either different than anything else you've smelled or it's not and there's no benefit You can't be like well, I don't like the smell, but like I like the feeling or you know, it made my skin better It's yeah, it's just like a bad and I knew that I have been obsessed with fragrance my whole life. I have Truly like smelled every single thing known to man And I felt that I wanted to start with fragrance because it is really Emotional and it is a better way to kind of set the table to build a brand When you can do emotional storytelling. I was just about to say I Love you clearly are know your customer so well that you're like you know them down to like what they smell like first Well, because by the way, I'm kind of In a way creating the thing that we created at Glossier For now like adult night adult and you know, it wasn't intentional, but it was like the the person who We were creating Glossier for is now 15 years older and I kind of feel like in in makeup there's you know, Farahomidi and Westman Atelier and Merit and like all of these luxury brands that are catering to like a millennial, a Gen X, you know, consumer, who like is the new luxury consumer, but in skincare and in fragrance, I feel like everyone's either going for like the old lady they think is still the luxury consumer, who like wants, you know, some like fancy shmancy, heavy thing, or it's like a watermelon gum drop, Gen Z thing, and here I am again, and there's like not the brand for us, and for-- - Are you going into skincare? - I've developed four skincare skews, and I launched with five fragrances, so I, and this is, I mean, the downside to sort of bootstrapping with some angel investment, is I'm just cash poor, yeah. 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So we launched with three fragrances. - I wish I wasn't wearing, I was an idiot and put perfume on, but I keep getting my own whips at it. - The way that I thought about launching, is if we're gonna sell fragrance on the internet, we have to have sort of like one of every type, for like every sort of like person, every fragrance person, there's an archetype that I have in my head, to your point. And so I have a floral, like it's a white floral for the girl who wants a floral. Then there is the air, I call it like the air wand. - You need to give an example for each, like who's a floral girl? - I mean, the floral girl is just fancy. And like beautiful and classic. - What do we know that's a floral girl? - The funny thing about these fragrances, is you know, it's like you make a plan and then God laughs. Like I'll think, I know who the, like I'm gonna say. - Then they like something else. - I mean, and like plenty of guys, like melting flowers, because it's by Frank Vocal, who did Santal 33 and Glossier U. And I wanted to work with him because he has this way of imparting this like creamy, warm, addictive, you know, it's like Santal 33 still hits. - Don't walk past someone wearing it and you're like, damn, that smells good. - And it's not, it didn't become chewy either. Like it kind of did for a second, but then it stayed. - I mean, it did. - And it went, and it's back down the other side. It's just like one of those-- - Or stod used to wear a Santal 33. - It's just, it's the, there's something addictive and comforting about it. And one person described melting flowers as like, it feels like you hugged someone wearing a floral, which I kind of love the idea of. Then I have-- - It's not lived in. - Yes. And that's like the Frank Vocal kind of signature. The air one girl who doesn't like any kind of fragrance or, you know, wants to wear essential oils, that's who I built and live in right before. - Plenty to remember. - Okay. It is like a naturalistic frankincense and roasted seashell fragrance. - I've heard you say roasted seashell. That's the funniest fucking term to me. It's so country. - Yeah. - This is the window of the clinic. - Oh. - This is the bottle. - It's beautiful. - We wanted to like, I mean, it's a custom bottle. I worked with Brian Rodinger who's like a genius brand designer and graph designer and physical product designer. But this is Lubinite, which is, again, like in my head, I am working off of someone that I see. And it's like the person who thinks they don't like fragrance and like they're like, I only like natural things. Like does this have parabens, like does this, you know, whatever, like that, that is this. And so I wanted something naturalistic, but that performed like a fragrance. - You have a great haircut, by the way. I keep staring at it. - Aaron King, man. So tell me if you can get the roasted seashell. - Oh my God, this is supposed to be. - I don't know what a fucking roasted seashell. I'm so basic. - So basic. - So go for, go for something a little. - Yeah. - There's like a, it's basically a frankincense and woods fragrance that has this like brushstroke. - Ooh, the more you smell it, the more you smell different things. - Yeah. - There's something in here that smells like my dad. - Really? - Mm-hmm. - And he wore Tuscany? - What's Tuscany? Tuscany Leather, Tom Ford? - No. - Oh my God. (laughing) - No, my dad, that broke like an old towel and like never had a nice butt. Oh my God, there's something in here that smells like it. This is so yummy. - It's yummy and it, like it does have, like I wanted something that evolved on a gender. - I like, you don't have that gender. - I mean, this is all, this is very genderless to me. - They're all, I mean, I feel like, I hate gender. - Olivia smell it. - Non-conform, or whatever, like this genderless, unisex, whatever, like. - Well, you don't have to say it 'cause it is what it is. - It is what it is. - What, yummy? - And there's like a saltiness and it's frankincense, but not like a churchy frankincense. - No, 'cause it, no, it's not, it's church adjacent for sure, but I'm a church. - But I'm a church. - What? - Your religious person. - I'm a church weekly, babe. My kids in Catholic school. - Woof. (laughing) - So then my, so you're gonna smell the floral last because I don't know if you're gonna like it the best or the worst. - This is called Musk Petit, which is a, basically I wanted to create like the chic, older, aunt or older sister of bossy AU, who shops at the row. - People fucking love that fragrance, huh? - It's an incredible fragrance. And I wanted to create something that was even more incredible, but also just like more sophisticated. Like we're all more mature, we have different tastes, things have evolved and again, like I wanted something that really melted into skin that like, emphasize how you smell. I feel like with a lot of really expensive fragrances, they like entered the room before you do. And you-- - I don't, yeah. - They wear you. - I didn't wear perfume for a long time because I just felt, it's just smell like it was masking me. - Correct. - And like I wanted something that really felt like, it smelled like you, not the fragrance you, but you. - Me, it's a humorous person. - So this is, and so this is like the second skin, skin scent type girl, but it's not a skin scent because it's actually, that these are all extra level fragrances. So meaning they have like a really high fragrance, oil concentration, these are made in LA, but the perfumers are in Paris and in New York. - Oh my God, that smells so good. - So this is peach and the formula, or the oil is 48% musks. So this is also, you have to put on skin because musks are like the most dynamic on skin. They like shapeshift. throughout the day, it like smells different. There's something to me, it almost, it has this sort of like body heat feel where like it sort of, the smell of running, like sprinting a mile, and that sort of like body heat you get before you start sweating is kind of in there with the musk's, and then there's a peach accord in the middle, which kind of like makes it fresh. - You would, I would have never picked up peach, but now you're saying it, it does smell like peach, but calling it a smell that smells like peach is undermines the depth of like, - Oh, it's there. - And what's funny about this one is that guys love it. Guys have been really gravitating to this one, which I like, I wouldn't have thought, again, I wouldn't have thought. I feel like the thing with fragrances, you want something that, yes, you can continue to smell like that stays, but you also want it to like excite you. - Yeah, and like move with you, and it really does that. - So this is melting flowers. This is the one, the Santal 33 guy, go. - Whoa, it smells like a sparkly white wine, right away. - Oh my God, it smells, what I, - So it's nectarine on top. - It smells like a balini. - It does kind of smell like a balini. - But like a hairy spark, balini. - Like a really expensive balini. But this, like the idea here, when we were first smelling it was like, almost like a psychedelic floral, where you would, at different moments, when you smell it, you would get different flowers. So like, you can't kind of like pinpoint exactly what, it's like gardenia with Jasmine. - Yeah, because then it's like Jasmine. - But it's a little trippy. - It's like so sophisticated. And you're right, then there's like other flowers in there. - And then there's like this creamy sandalwood warmth. Like everything that I created has a lot of lactones, which are like these creamy molecules. But then I have two that I'm launching next month, which are gormons. Gormons are the number one category in fragrance. It's like, it's like soldigionero, bum bum, or like Kayali. It's like the ones that are the number one category. It smells like a, people want to smell like a cupcake. And I get it. It's like delicious, addictive, sweet. - Which one of these right now is like, is there a leader? - Not really yet. - So interesting. - They're all very different. - I think that one of these is gonna be the leader. So one, creating a gormon is really hard at this price point, because it always smells like bath and body works. And like no shade, love bath and body work. - No, no. - And it's cucumber melon, like we were all there. - I had that shit in. - Of course. - And it smells, and guess what? It smells great. That's not, that was not the assignment. My assignment here was to create something like exquisite and special that really like enhanced the way you smell. - Someone should be like swapping the people that used to work in those stores. Like they're just smelling that stuff all day. - So I wanted to do something different. Again, like I had to smell like nothing else. I've ever smelled. I, we started to work with honey as an idea. Like how can we? I think that I-- - It's like a way to make it sweet without like cheap. - Yeah, exactly. But honey can be really cloying. And I don't know, like people have like an aversion to honey sometimes, because it can be like almost too sweet. - Okay. - I wanted to like emphasize like the earthy facet of like the earthy side of honey. And then we added cassisse, which is like a dark red berry in a quiroil, not that we're like luscious, but I'm most comparing everything to a drink. And there is a leechy note on top, which like we all didn't know whether it would work, but when we added it, it kind of like opened up the honey thing and gave it this like freshness. - Oh, that's so fun. I love leechy. - How long did you spend working on all these two years? And like I figured out quite early on that like it's one thing to get a meeting with a master perfumer, but it's another thing to get a master perfumer excited to work on something. And to like modify something 10, 20, 30 times. So like you have to-- - And feel like you're like not like annoying them. - Right. - And then you guys are on a journey together. - And so it was like a very fun, but also very intense experience. So this is called QMP, which stands for queen mandibular pheromone, which is the name of the chemical complex that the queen B excretes to like let the hive know that she's in charge. - I was like chocolate. That's my chocolate one, so that's a good point. - This one's called cacao ver. (laughing) - I wanted to make a pop brownie, like a really elevated pop brownie. So this is chocolate and cannabis. It has like sage. It's more of like an herbaceous like herbal type take on cannabis. Did you get the cannabis? 'Cause I feel like I thought it was the only one. - Now it's getting more as I-- - It's more that this is I think will be, I've been told by buyers that this is gonna be the number one. They think, but again, you never know. - Really? - Again, you have to remember like gormons or like what people are completely obsessed with. This one is my favorite I think. And like I would never say I'm into a chocolate fragrance, but like it is on, like once the chocolate kind of flashes off, you're getting this like vanilla, Tonka, and like a little bit of that. - This one's my least favorite. - Really? - I know. - Interesting. - I didn't know if I should be honest or not. - You should be more than honest. - I love it. - You don't do not wear, you don't like gormons. So then you probably really aren't gonna like QMP. - Also, here's a thing, and I remember learning this like when I got into fashion, like prints are personal. Fragrance is personal. Names are personal. So like this is reminding me of like she's in heaven over there. It reminds me of something. - Ooh, I like this one. - How does your aunt tell us about? - Like something with baked. - She's a little woo-woo. - Interesting. - Mm. - A little herbaceous, patchouli. So this is honey and casice and leechy. - This is cool. - And this is like, I mean, I think the most refined fragrance that we have, like the most adult. - Yeah, that's real, it's beautiful. - I'm like intimidated by her. - Yes. - This is also the one though that I've worn in development. - This is a woman who has like a lunch at Berkdorf's. - Correct. - This is like fancy, everybody knows her name. - This is fancy. - Like, and I like, she is 1,000% making it right here. This is editor-in-chief energy. And like I wanted everyone to be distinct. I like funny, the chocolate cannabis one. I, we added into the line because I feel like any brand that I like, that I respect from past present is always has one wild card. Like you either love it or you leave it. - You feel like that's the wild card? - I feel like the, no, I feel like the chocolate. - Oh, the chocolate, yeah. It's like a little ver, like chocolate cannabis. Either you're gonna love it or you're gonna hate it. But I think that that's what makes a brand interesting. - These all smell really fucking good. - But they're all different. Like, and I wanted. - This smells like nothing. These all smell like absolutely nothing. I've ever smelled before. - Really? - Yes. - That was the goal. - It's incorrect. I mean, by the way, I hate when people like do beside, like this side that they're like, these like food people on TikTok. And it's like, have you tried every single thing in the fucking world? Like who gives you the authority? - I've tried every single fragrance. I feel that you have tried every single fragrance. I'm not like, I've been wearing the same things forever. I'm still wearing cookie cookie. Like I'm like, because I went there 20 years ago. These, but I know what people smell like 'cause I just love people so much. I'm always like, these are so beautiful. - And they're distinct, which I think is helpful. Like when you launch, like you either like know you're gonna want something that's like, the rich lady. You're gonna want something that's like. - They are very distinct. - And I want, like, because you have to kind of take a chance when you're buying on the internet. And like we're sold in Violet Gray in the stores now. We're gonna have more retail in the new year. But right now. - Are they being sold at the space? - They're being sold at Controposto, which is on off of Las Yeniga and West Hollywood. And on our website. - Okay. - So people can go in there. Does that gonna be a different dynamic for you guys to have like walk-ins who like come and try things? - Yeah. - Like that's gonna be a whole. - Well, we're like actually expanding the clinic into a street facing unit that's on our, like, property. It's like this insane 1930s historic, - Donald, that insane building. - With the window, like these like classic Hollywood agency windows, we like basically poured our life savings into restoring the building and like furnishing it with Courtney Applebaum, my friend who's the best interior decorator, designer, thought partner. And just like to create this like really refined experience because I think the reason why we started Controposto in general is like, people go, like people don't go for these procedures, thinking that they're getting a medical. It's not like an operation. - No, it feels like a luxury experience. - Correct. And like yet, you go to a doctor's office to get it and it feels like you're in an exam chair, really they're bleeding. It's like really, it's like tacky and there's, you know, neon lights that say B.U. or whatever, you know, like it's, and that, you know, there's a pot for every lid, like that works for some people, but I wanted to create, and in case I wanted to create, like a place in a sense of place that kind of spoke to like his aesthetic of like really being artful with the way he places, fillers and PRF and PRP and Botox and lasers that like really enhance the way you look and enhance your natural beauty versus like transforming you or masking it. And so like, with the products, like that was sort of my, - Amazing. - That was my go-forward. - Can you tell us what the skincare products are? - I have a product called Syntheson, which is an ultra fine mist, oxygenating self-tanding spray. - I was gonna ask you if you were teasing. - Yeah, I love my self-tanding spray and I'm sure that yours is, so this, please send it to me. - It's incredible. It doesn't like, I spent two years developing that as well. It doesn't clump in your eyebrows in your hairline. It, like, because it's such a fine mist, it's dummy proof you can put it up. - Yeah, there's a lot of active, so I need to be doing that. - You can use it three days a week, you can use it once a week. It just gives you, we use five different tanning agents. So like most self-tanning sprays use just like DHA, the sugar cane derivative ingredient, which can make you look orange. We use five different types of tanning agents. And then active levels of oxygenating and anti-inflammatory ingredients so that you're actually treating your skin. - Yeah, your skin care. - Your getting skin care, it makes you feel, it's like breathing oxygen into your skin cells immediately. So you get this like immediate glow from just like, - Wow. - Having oxygen there. - Wow. - It's amazing. I have a product called cancel cream, which is a sort of like a CC cream that has active levels of anti-redness and anti-inflammatory ingredients. - That's like acid? - No, it has calendula, beta-glucan, and niacinamide. - Ooh, cool. - And basically it's for pre-imposed procedure. If you got a laser, if you got a peel, if you have like areas of redness, a lot of these formulas that I've seen are too thick to like put over raw skin. And I wanted to create something that was sheer enough that like would be able to like kind of float. Like, I call it like a really strong veil. - Wow. - Where it like, it just kind of gives you like a veil of coverage. So you could like wear it after a procedure. You could, and it's like people that I've given lab samples to were like, this is crack. It's, you like a little goes a long way. I like use that technology that like all the big beauty companies came out with like 10 or 15 years ago that's like pH adjusting color. - I love her. - Yes, I was gonna ask, that's my favorite thing in the world. When you like rub something on it. - And it starts to match your skin around. - So I, but like the problem with that is that as a foundation, it's not perfect. But I sheared out the formula. So it actually. - It's just like a light. - It's just a light veil. And then I have a bruise balm, which is like an encapsulated arnica and vitamin K. - Incredible. - Like spot treatment. - This is so chic and cool. - And a pre-imposed treatment area, like refordification cream. - And I could use that every day. - The way I describe it is like if you, like most people would use it like for like five days pre getting anything done like a laser appeal and five days after just to like re. - But I'm using like Trentino and every other night. - If you're like in between, if you're rich, y'all use it every day as your moisturizer. - Cause it's fancy. - Yeah. - It's gonna, I mean, the skincare is not gonna be as expensive as the perfume because I think the luxury in skincare is being able to afford it to a certain extent. And like we're all living, like we're all very privileged. We're all living, you know, extraordinarily privileged lives. But like, I'm not buying a $350 cream every six weeks. I'm just not, like I'll just stop using it. So that's what I'm doing. And it's been fun. It's been the most like exciting thing I've ever done to do it by myself and like with partners, Brian Rottenger, Courtney, like all these like, I'm like able to finally work with like the best people in their field and to really, I feel like if I have a power, it's to like collaborate with these like experts and icons and like get interesting new ideas out of them. - We are definitely out of time, but I want to ask you a couple of things. This is, I feel like this is like into the gloss states. I want to know like what your beauty routine is right now. - I am really low maintenance. (laughing) No, my beauty routine, I wear lab samples of Synthesun like because it's an incredible product. Like I can put it on before, after, incredible. During the day, it's like the best. I, do you like the, what's the angel cream, the, you know, like the, the eye patches, do, do, do, do. - Oh, I was gonna say, do. - I haven't tried that yet. - Right, which has a little bit of hold, but also helps stimulate follicle growth. - Great. Give me something that holds these at my things or so. - I know. And the problem is that the Grande Lashes, the Revital Lashes, have an ingredient that's going to be banned in the EU, or probably already has been because it can cause fat wasting, which you don't want in your eye area. - Yeah, your eyes just sink into your head. - You don't want that. - Okay. - I am obsessed with Milbon, shampoo and conditioner, my hair stylist, Erin King, turn me onto it. - I have a lot of work, course hair, and the Japanese know how to do hair care. - And it's not that they're, like, they have more rigorous standards for, like, ingredients in Japan than they do here, I think. So I don't think it's that we can't use the same ingredients, but for some reason, we don't. - Mm-hmm. - And Milbon, M-I-L-B-O-N, is a brand that they, it's like a salon brand, but it's, like, changed. - He has your same hair. - Yeah, it's changed my hair texture. It's like, they have, like, these ultra moisturizing, shampoo, I would say if you're going to buy one thing Milbon, the conditioners, like, there's something in a Japanese conditioner. - Cool. - That you can't get anywhere. - What else are you using on your skin? Your skin looks insane. Or are you just getting treatments? - I'm getting so many treatments, you wouldn't believe. - Are you doing microneedling? - I have done microneedling. I swear by CO2. - I'm never doing that. - Have you ever done that? - Okay. - So CO2 is a, it's called the non-ablative laser, or semi-ablative, something like that. Starting with ablation, which is burning, ablation, you don't want, usually you don't want to be ablated. But you basically are taking off a layer of your skin with this laser. You can do it, like, once a year, but it fully made my eyelids look like I had an upper blood. - You look so lifted. - And it's-- - And you don't have any, are you filled? What, do you have any, like, you're just not-- - I don't react well to filler because a lot of filler-- - You're a profilo. - Yeah. - Profilo, profilo, whatever it's called, is a little bit different, but, like, the typical hyaluronic acid fillers, hyaluronic acid, as we know, as, like, beauty people. It's a humectin. It, like, draws in moisture, moisture. And so, for me, if I get filler, like, typical filler, I'll wake up really puffy, or if I'm, like, feeling sick, I'll, like, just, like, get really puffy because it's, like, moisture, I don't know, moisture retention, which I don't want. - Mm-hmm. - I, like, want to look a little hollow. I feel like-- I can take the boy out of fashion, but you can't take the fashion out of the boy. But, like, that, but a CO2 laser, once a year, I think, can be pretty life-changing. - Wow. - And strategic Botox, so that you're not, like, freezing your face. You can still move, which I don't really have right now. And PRF and PRP, which are basically taking your blood, spitting it in a centrifuge, separating out the plasma, which they call, like, liquid gold. And PRF is, like, mixing it with, like, a really, really, really viscous, hyaluronic acid, and then injecting it back into your face. So it's basically your own-- - Oh, he does that. He's injecting that into-- - Yeah. So you can, I mean, people do it for hair loss. They can inject it into their joints, like, PRF, PRP. Softwave is the other one that I'm obsessed with. - And what's that one again? - It is-- - Mm-hmm. - It's, like, all therapy. Remember? All therapy was, like, Christie Brinkley or-- - Oh, my God, someone like that was, like, the spokesperson of all therapy. It basically works on deeper layers of your skin and your fascia. So, like, you don't have any downtime because it's not, like, ablating your upper layer, your top layers of skin. But it's tightening and lifting, and you do, like, a session of three. And it just, like, it's, again, it's more of, like, a maintenance thing. I think the thing that I love about Casey, my husband amongst other things, is that he's like not trying to sell shit to people that doesn't work or that's, like, a trend. Like he's really using all of these different, sort of, like, tools in his toolkit in different ways to, like, help and, sort of, like, enhance. But, like, people will come be, like, what can you do about this? Can you, like, you know, double that? And he's, like, I could give you all, I could sell you all this stuff. But, like, ultimately, you want a lower facelift or an upper bluff or a lower, you know, like that. And he's, like, very on it. He's a Mormon, a good Mormon boy from Utah, so he, like, can't tell-- He's a Mormon from Utah? Yeah. God, go. And so it's-- How did you guys meet? We met in New York at Pyramid Bar. I was just about to say it was in the East Village Pyramid Bar. I got it. Still there. Yeah. Still kicking. Oh, my God. Like, light skin care, and then, like, I use necessary, and I buy it. So, you know, I'm telling the truth. Like, the body serum from necessary is the most incredible product if you don't, like, moisturizer's also putting a moisturizer on your skin and then spring fragrance will make it last longer. Oh. Cool. No tip. And then finally, this is, like, we're way over. But what are, like, three products that you just live for that are all, like, on your counter right now? I'm obsessed with tanning and, like, bronzing. But, like, as a guy, I don't want shimmer, which, like, makes it really hard. Tom Ford used to make a men's bronzing gel that was, sort of, just, like, it was kind of, like, it looked, like, almost chocolate sauce that you would, like, mix into your moisturizer, and it would just, like, give you this. vacation glow. There's now a product from Victoria Beckham called it's like a liquid bronzing drop that is I apparently like continues to sell out that I am obsessed with. It's a liquid, but it has enough slip so that you can like apply it all over your face and it doesn't immediately like set in. And it just like gives you a little bit of a glow. I need I need to like attack the panace from a few angles. So I've sent this on. I have my like Victoria Beckham bronzing liquid drops which are incredible, but it's literally sold out everywhere. You can't get it. And necessary body wash on the body wash is really good. Campy beat like it just truly can't be beat. And do I have any other I didn't visline as an anti-aging treatment over the last year because I didn't know. Again, I'm like finding all this out there. Body face, I should have known that your body falls apart as you get older. But happens to your teeth. They start like crowding. Oh, so that happens to me. So my teeth are fake because the two bottom, they were, they were all moving like this. And then this tooth kept, it was like crooked, they were pushing it behind. I was too impatient from visline. So I just had them shaved now. So I didn't visline for a year. And it completely widened my lower face which made me look better and younger. That's because your face looks different. But it's like one of those like it's in visline. It like it expanded my palate. I was like getting to a point where I was like getting a little tiny face. And now I have a big face. So I like where I think in visline is like the next wave of like aesthetic treatments, like that it's not just an orthodontic thing that you need if you're teeth are fucked up. Also, if you have braces when you're a little, that doesn't have any bearing on whether you're teeth are going to be good now because they're continually shifting and changing. In visline every single night. Or my answer, I'm supposed to sleep with my thing. You have to or else like you're gonna go back from when they came. That's all I got. Thank you. I love this. I want to get a coffee. I love you. I know. Love it. Thank you so much. Thank you. And that ladies and gentlemen concludes this week's episode of Everything is the Best. I hope you enjoyed it. Please rate, review, subscribe, all that stuff. Maybe leave a comment. Go ahead and follow me on Instagram @piabarancini and I hope you have a fabulous, fabulous rest of your day. Love you. Ciao.