Speaker 1how's it going brother it's calling thanks so much for coming down man I know you're a busy guy and consumes your life so right now you're um you're a counselor at a treatment center in Toronto a rehab center right what's that like well I'm actually the clinical supervisor oh okay
Speaker 2so uh what's that like I mean it's uh it can be chaotic at times um you know it's definitely an environment where you know it's great because you know organically you know you see the transition and people that come in you know so broken hopeless um don't really know where to where to start where to begin and just come in there and you know and to be able to sort of be a part of that whole process for for an individual you know there's there's nothing like it right you know to see somebody get to a place of feeling well you know to start building their self-esteem back up you know feeling like they have some sense of purpose in their life feeling like you know this this comes back you know because drugs and alcohol ripped this out right no matter what right so that you know that process is is really really amazing to see so you know I get to see that on a daily basis you know obviously I manage uh the clinical team and the nursing team and the sales team so I have my hand in a lot of different you know avenues but I'm grateful you know for that for that opportunity because seven years ago I I remember saying that I wish for this right and when I think about you know how sometimes how hard days are and how how I look at responsibility today as a privilege not a burden and think back like yeah you know I really I really wish for this
Speaker 1seven years ago yeah and I you know I didn't have a responsible bone in my body back in in addiction and alcohol and I didn't have a responsible bone in my body back in in addiction and alcohol and alcoholism right there was no such thing as responsibility I didn't show up for anybody you know you know what's funny is I just assumed your job title I do that a lot with people or I'm like you know yeah you're this because I don't know I just had this nobody even told me that right I just that's pretty preconceived notion but instead of me telling your story and telling you who you are why don't you why don't you kick us off with I mean that was beautiful what you said I love I love hearing that side because there's a lot of darkness in addiction too right so it's nice that you get to be a part of of the beautiful side of it too right so tell us a little bit about yourself what it was like what happened what you're like now yeah absolutely the
Speaker 2old the old story so I struggled for a lot of years you know I I talk about this often more than not you know drugs and alcohol were exposed to me at a very very early age and you know family dynamic was a big piece and you know I you know I grew up in Toronto and you know over the course of my young life I saw a lot of things that you know no no kids should really see growing up and you know that dynamic of chaos you know that's that's really the word I can I can see because uh if you looked on thing if you looked at things from the outside you know I was born in a very very privileged home pragmatically all my needs were taken care of you know I was fortunate that that my mom and dad were very well off as I got older and you know so I I had everything that I needed but uh you know uh addiction runs in my family and um you know my brother was you know off to the races at a very early age um so you know I think social crowds played a big part and um you know I I really wanted to sort of emulate that for some reason growing up you know my mom and dad weren't around too much they were traveling or working my dad was never really around he was gone three weeks out of the month and come back for a week and go and I didn't really have that strong of a relationship with him he he was more you know close with my with my brother who would go with him and travel and you know my dad tried to help him for so so many years right so um you know but on paper everything was good checked out everything checked out right checking the boxes so you know and at that time I don't think you know even though I had these like thoughts of like never feeling good enough and you know not really feeling like I was adequate you know maybe because I wasn't really focused on too too much it was a lot of the you know situations or a lot of the focus was on you know my brother and his addiction right and boy did I use that excuse when that people asked me why I wanted to use right I used every excuse in the book but anyways things things you know growing up were were were chaotic at times right so you know I got through elementary school made a you know I was very social I started to really feel confident in that component anyways and then I went to high school and I was one of those kids that I couldn't get into the high school that I wanted to because my grades weren't as good so I was one of those kids that was I guess you can say fortunate or unfortunately I went to grade nine so when I went to grade nine they just started the high school so it was the first year of the actual high school so it wasn't too too many people there and that was kind of a weird experience for me I don't know I didn't really like the people that I was with so it was a really tough year for me socially but then I ended up going to a new school in grade 10 and you know I remember going there and kind of feeling like an outcast because everybody kind of knew each other already like nobody goes to high school in grade 10 everyone comes from other grade nine or they come up from the elementary side of things right so it was kind of I didn't really fit in to too well until until I was in grade 12 and you know that's when you know alcohol started to play a little bit of a factor because I wanted to you know fit in with some of the social crowd in the crew and it wasn't until so I did well in in high school I didn't really fit in in high school in high school but it wasn't until University where you know I was able to sort of be on my own right because you know my parents even though they weren't around they were very involved in how I was doing in school you know they from afar right I didn't see them a lot physically but you know financially they were there and you know they would always call and ask like how things are going so you know there was a there was a little bit of like a micromanaging component there right so when I went to university you know I was all alone and I was with some of my buddies and that's when you know things started to really come into motion right it was alcohol for a while then you know sort of became cocaine I know I was doing it recreationally every maybe couple months here and there you know just kind of enjoying my time right and I remember when I first hit that cocaine line I thought you know I want to feel like this for the rest of my life same I want to feel like this for the rest of my my life and uh um everything that I you know had a distorted sort of thought or like lack of confidence it all just went away the anxiety went away the feeling you know inadequate the inadequacy went away you know and I felt like I was like myself right and I thought to myself at that time I don't understand why people have a problem with this this is great this is the best thing because I always associated hardcore drugs with like you know what you see people on the streets and just where it takes you right the guy under the bridge right and uh um you know so when I did that I was like wow like this is this is amazing right so you know my first couple years of University I I did extremely well very good grades and then I was introduced to the party scene and learning how to you know plan events and be a promoter right I started a bunch of parties there with a couple guys and you know we started booking DJs and getting people into the into Guelph really making the town like a good atmosphere because that's what we wanted to do right and that's when I really started to um enthrall myself in the scene of things right so you know I always tell people you know I always tell people you know you know I always tell people like you know what my sense or realm of normalcy is could be different from you but at some point we start to adapt to that normalcy so if I'm put in a situation where things are really really uncomfortable but there's I don't have an option or I don't think I have an option at that time to make a change I'm going to adapt and it's starting to become a normal thing so going out and partying and hosting events and making everybody feel like they're having an amazing time was normal for me yeah your baseline my baseline right and that was what was important to me right that's where my values lined up with at that time because I wanted people to recognize and know what you know know who I am and know who I could be and everything that I thought that I wanted to be you know and um you know so that you know that really really took off for me and you know I I finished school I got a girlfriend out there so even though when I was done and I went back to Toronto and went back to my parents house that reality I just wanted to keep that that that that lifestyle you know so I would go back and forth all the time and you know and I really started to do the same thing that I was doing out there in in the Toronto scene and got connected with some my me and my best friend we started promoting business and we started hosting events and working with you know other guys in the industry and that really became my sense of normalcy so you know it was basically like you know I love to party I'm good at it and here's some money to do it well you know and and here's some drugs that are all around you all the time at that point or that age it's like I'm I'm living I'm living the life here you know or so I thought um and so you know I did that for a bunch years and you can see over that time the progression of my drug and alcohol use became really really bad especially the cocaine and but again adaptation normalcy that was normal for me because i was surrounded by people that were doing it too and that became my normal right so when you enter this like this this world or like this vision and you're like so enthralled it's like everything seems to be okay right if you're in a you know abusive relationship with somebody and you stick around for so long your brain starts to adapt to it and then you think
Speaker 1that this is normal you don't know anything you don't know anything else right so going back to
Speaker 2that so i started i started doing doing the club scene and partying and got big and you know with that and did that for a while and you know my drug use started to become really really bad and when i was uh 25 years old kind of on the cutoff of um of that whole scene my brother died of an overdose and and my dad found him you know at the house and you know my dad was so i thought the poor man like he he you know was worked so so hard at his life in his life to become who he he became a very successful person immigrated from russia you know didn't have a 12 12 dollars in his pocket when he came and you know he became a very successful person and he just wanted to do anything he could to you know to help him and you know it was a losing battle for him unfortunately and that was a tough pill to swallow and um you know so i know at this point you know i still like what i'm doing but i know it's it's it's you know seeing that it not that it shook me because he was into other things other substances but i never thought i was going to take take myself there right and uh you know so i remember at his funeral you know my mom going to me like hey like you know i really hope you you you don't go down that same path and i looked her straight in the face and i said i already know i'm down that path but i won't you know and it was a bull face lie you know but still in my mind i'm justifying that i'm okay and i'm okay so anyway so i you know going to my first stint of treatment when i'm 27 because i start to realize i got a problem here and you know things in my life start becoming unmanageable and it's a slow sort of thing and you know it's like it's like you know it's like a slow sort of the slow burn the slow burn right and uh i i go to treatment and like not waste wasted my time but just i wasn't ready you know and i wasn't ready and uh what do i do i come out of treatment and i'm throwing a boat cruise that night with with a bunch of we got we got i can't remember who the dj was but we had some dj from from europe coming to do this and i miss the whole planning of it because i'm in rehab so i come out two days later i'm back back to doing what i'm doing right away right instantaneous because you see i associated knowledge and theoretical concepts with what recovery is if i can just understand what they're saying to me and delivering that message i'm good i can figure it out i can use successfully right you know the the tale and the story that we tell ourselves over and over right and boy was i wrong but uh you know anyway in that mindset that's that's where i was so yeah you know i struggled for for a couple years and you know i i meet a girl um i should say you know when i was 25 and we start you know dating and you know i i sell her this like real good perspective on who i am like version of you version of me do you know who do you know do you know who i think i am right and i'm really really selling it because i can sell you know i'm a good talker i'm a good i'm a good you know i can show people things are always good and i'm a good talker i'm a good talker i'm a good good right and crack a smile on my face deflect with humor all of the masks and all of the facets that we sort of uncover and carry on and carry through right so i meet her you know we start dating we're together for a couple years and you know throughout that time she really really voices a concern about my my drug use because i'm out all night partying and not coming back till the next day or being with her leaving my room and going across the street at like five in the morning and you know continuing on so she she raises concern and she's like you know i'm not like like i can't be with somebody like this you know and you know again like in my most vulnerable state i guess you know when you're when you're coming down you know you're selling you're selling yourself you're selling yourself on the version of who you're gonna be and please i promise i'm not gonna do it again and all of those things right so you know when i look back on this now i i think to myself that's that's that's powerlessness right there right because even though every single fiber of my intention is is believing what i'm saying my actions can't back it up right we're judged by our and by our actions not our intentions so you know here i am trying to sell her on this this idea and this version of who i am so she gets pregnant and you know i tell myself that time like that that's it like this is a sign from god and and this is why i was meant to be clean and sober but again i don't really understand or conceptually and execute like like action wise understand what it is that i'm what i have to do here right i think i can just moderate or i think i can just go to rehab again you know and and i can figure out a way to just balance this and and and drink and use like a normal person right like this is kind of like shortcut almost it's a shortcut i love i love this i love the shortcut me too i love the shortcut guy you know whatever it is just i'll do anything but what you're presenting to me right so anyway so you know i go to treatment a couple more times and you know you know i come back and you know she gives birth and to to our daughter she was born on july 30th 2013 right i'm 27 at the time and i think i mentioned this when i spoke last week it was like you know she's born and um you know the first thing that i go do after she's born is i hold her and and i tell my my daughter's mom that i'm gonna go to sleep because i'm tired and i go pick up right away and that's my life and i'm like i'm gonna go to sleep because i'm tired and i'm gonna go pick up my first day of being a father but that's what that was was was was using in a condo by myself supposed to be the fucking best day of my life you know and being there for somebody but you know self-centeredness selfishness instant gratification entitlement it's all about me right and so she's born and you know and you know i'm going through the battles and you know we're fighting a lot and you know it just it doesn't end up working out so i go to treatment a couple years later and she breaks up with me and uh and i'm like i'm gonna go to sleep and i'm gonna go to you know again you know just not willing or ready to to stop because i'm so so used to this crutch that i think thought that i always needed you know because as bad as the consequences were becoming i was comfortable in that chaos i was comfortable in the familiarity of the wreckage and i'm not comfortable in the unfamiliarity even though people are like hey like you know come come to this side of things way better it's way better you know like you got a good life ahead of you just don't know it yet yeah yeah yeah i i i see what you're saying but i'm just gonna stay over here in this corner right and keep suffering right and you know so um you know i i ended up you know getting addicted to to opiates you know because the the cocaine and was putting them into some crazy levels of psychosis and you know all of those things so i you know one day i do some some percocets i don't know if i can talk about something so percocets and you know percocets turn into oxys and you know turn into other things and you know before you know it a couple years down the road and here i am you know using opiates every day and i'm you know waking up and can't function normal without them and man what what what a powerless thing that is you know where it's like i have to you know maintain it's not even getting high anymore it's me it's just living it's just it's existing existing it's existing not living right and uh you know so you know my parents and she obviously raises concerns she tells them and my parents find out and i'm going back and forth and you know recovery not recovery going to meetings doing really i always did well because again i knew what was expected of me and anything that i did i was very compliant right and not not surrendering there's a big difference between compliance and surrender right and uh you know i always i call it you know what i call it i call it conditional surrender i will do this if i will do this if i see this happening right conditional surrender it's not it's not it's not surrendered like surrendering on my terms surrendering on my terms you know what i'm saying so so you know here's here's the plan so i'm gonna do these things and and this is what i'm gonna get out of it right and it's just it's a recipe for exasperation because you know they always say it in in you know the fellowship like having expectations is like premeditated resentment right so so again this is what i'm doing and you know finally i um you know everybody's had enough of me and enough of me and i go out to and go to treatment day. I think it's like my fourth or fifth time and treatment and you know I'm there for you know I think five months six months and they tell me hey like you you shouldn't go back to Toronto you should live out here for a while get some foundation under your belt but I'm like yeah like I guess but I'm fighting it and you know my mom and dad my dad's like you have to stay out there there's no you have no choice so I say okay like I guess you know I'm gonna stay out there but uh I think that was really the first time that I really really really tried and did everything that was asked of me in the way even though I felt uncomfortable doing it and I didn't want to do it because you know I I really was like I I feel like I this is just not gonna go down the right path and you know the last thing I want to do is you know have my parents have no kids right and uh you know it's sad it's sad right but uh you know um so so I go I do well you know I start working out there and I'm living out there and I take a year amazing take a year right and you know I I thought that my program was was okay you know but again compartmentalization right it's like it's like I was like you know picture a picture you driving a car brand new car shiny it's beautiful it's got everything all the bells and whistles and and there's a crack in your windshield and someone's saying to you hey there's a crack in your windshield yeah look at my nice big ass car black you know exterior rims everything yeah but you got a crack in your windshield yeah I just filled up the the car with a gas it's got 24 inch rims on the tires it's got a surround sound system yeah but but your windshield's cracked right so that compartmentalization so I'm doing everything that I need to be doing except I get into a relationship I get into a relationship with somebody that I was warned and told not to because we're too new too fragile and we have this you know connection so I I do it and some things happen with with that and I I relapse I relapse because the pain of of losing the connection with this person that I think is like everything to me at the time because again I'm extreme black and white thinking we you know I don't have it anymore and and my first sort of solution is to go pick up so so where's my recovery where's my foundation at you know I think that's great but it's not because there's cracks in it right that compartmentalization on that decision leads to that so obviously it wasn't my foundation wasn't wasn't good right so I relapse you know I go back in for a couple weeks and I get the girl back and again please don't do it please don't do it but I gotta listen I gotta learn the hard way so you know anyways it ended up becoming a mess and I relapse again and then I'm out in about for about four months on the streets in Vancouver in Vancouver on Vancouver Island on the streets okay nowhere to live my parents are done with me living with drug dealers just just not where I envisioned my life to be if you you know saw me my my early years I think in high school and even a couple first couple years university but uh that's what ended up happening to me and you know I had I had a recovery coach out there that you know God God bless him saved my life and you know after about four four months of of of doing this this addiction thing I was like my my it was 150 pounds scabs all over my body I look I look brutal and this guy pulls me out of my body and I'm like oh my god I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm like oh my god I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die I'm gonna die he pulls me out and says you're going to Vancouver you're gonna go to the treatment center because it's different from all the other ones and it's not like the ones that you've been to and you know my willingness at the time was I mean I just I just wanted to die so broken so broken so I get there I'm doing the 10-day intro and uh I don't know man I got there and I and I just as soon as I walked into that door I'm like something's got to change here you know when it's like okay like you know people have been leading the horse to water but I can't drink it now it's time to drink it you know and I get there and I don't know what it was man it was it was the energy and the culture and um the people that really really saved me um and I was willing I was willing so I I complete there and they tell me they say you know at one point I thought okay I'm going to do the 10 days and go back to Toronto but they're like no chance you're doing that like you need to do this program fully right so I go do it it takes me three months it's a long-term program and in those three months though you you know you start going back to the fellowship and you start going to you know meetings and you really build connections with people and you really you know understand the essence of what it means to help somebody you know help somebody through their journey even when you're in the state of of of shatterness and and despair and vulnerability it's like yeah I don't care go help somebody else go up somebody else go up somebody else go up somebody else right and that's what I did and I complete there and you know they tell me well where's your willingness and I said I'm willing to do whatever it takes like okay well you're going to stay around here and you're going to start volunteering your time here because I think that you got a good story and a good message and you you know you've been through it so if you volunteer and you like it maybe there's a job you're opening for you and you know the first thought I thought I said yeah I'm willing but again conditional surrender I'm not making you know 14 an hour to to do this like and try to counsel people it's got nothing to do with me I want to go back to you know what I was doing right and yeah where's your recovery at where's your willingness at what what did that stuff ever do for you right it just got you back to the same places over and over again so I said okay I'll do it and you know slowly over time I ended up getting a job and I started working with youth initially that was my first my first real shot at right this field and you know in that time man if I wasn't working I was going to meetings every day they said get a service position I got a service position they said get a home group I got a home group they said you know get a sponsor that will will take you through it and that's what I did and then when I got on to my step nine I started sponsoring other guys and that's all I really did for the first couple years was work and do recovery because that's all I I knew in that moment and that's all I needed to do because that's what somebody told me right so I started really building the trust and the essence of purpose and just seeing other people and their story and where they came from and how well they did and you know started going to medallions and and all these things you know 20 years 25 years you know for I remember my my third or fourth meeting you know I'm I'm hurting really really bad I'm on ORTs and I'm there and some and this guy winds up becoming one of my mentors and the guy that runs or started the the treatment center that I was up yeah it takes 40 years it takes 40 years wow and I'm thinking to myself I had 40 years like I can't even get 40 minutes yeah so you know I'm there and I'm listening and you know I come up to him after and I say um like how did you do this like this is this is crazy I I can't believe that this this you're 40 or sober he says to me he says well he's like I live by two principles don't make decisions based on bad feelings and don't do things you can't talk about you do those two things you're going to be okay and it's in that moment or in that sort of sequence it seemed very very you know simple obviously as I you know continue the recovery sometimes that's a difficult thing to do right for you know but I did the best I could to execute that and I started working there and you know all of this throughout this time you know I look back on it and I'm in Vancouver right in Vancouver Island for about six years and I'm going back and forth and trying to be a dad for my for my daughter the best way I could and even though it's so difficult you know not to be around her or to be with her this was like my my sacrifice that I needed to do because I'd rather be someone that's there for her later in life than never be there at all you know and you know Jill's institutions death it was hard so you know I started working there I became a counselor there and I actually funny enough started running the co-parenting group there for guys that wanted to rebuild their relationships with their kids and and their spouses and you know I over over my time there it was like you know I saw a lot of families and a lot of people reconnect with with with their kids and I was so happy for them because I learned how to be happy for somebody else rather than think about myself in the moment and I learned that from there and you know it helped me really be a good dad and a good person and a present person for when I came back here so you know I got clean and sober I you know worked and like I said for several six years and went to meetings and everything like that and you know eventually ended up coming back here in may 2023 and you know connected with eric and he said hey you know i got a job at my treatment center do you want to be a part of it i said yeah absolutely and i remember we spoke preliminary before and i kept saying i'm moving back i'm moving back because even though i felt really comfortable there again like i do really well being comfortable in comfortability right like i always always say to myself like i'll dazzle you with my mediocrity because i'm okay just like you know having my head my my head above the water a little bit that's it it's all i really need right so i'm comfortable with that right so you know that that opportunity in that that job in that field like it opened up so much for me but you know i could have i could have stayed there for longer and been comfortable and all of that but i knew like in my heart you know after making an amends to not actually in a physical amends to my daughter but you know writing a letter and and doing all those things that i needed to be there for her and i made the move i was in a three-year relationship with somebody um you know she was supposed to come and move back with me but she never ended up doing that because it was just too difficult for her and i understand but you know i knew that that's what i had to do and where i had to be so um i made the move back and i'm still here and i'm still here and i'm still here and i'm still back in may 2023 and you know the rest is really history the rest is really history right and uh you know along the ways i i was able to really you know meet so many so many great people so many good good wholesome people that were were broken you know and and you know they were they were really good people and you know some of them did really really well and got their lives back and and a lot of them didn't and you know it's really hard to see and it's difficult to see and you know i think the thing a lot a lot of times the the thing that sometimes we we miss within our you know actions is you know the impact that it has on our family and you know so when somebody starts doing well and getting their life back you know the family gets well gets their life back too you know and it's this like overall like organic like change and and and and i guess you can call it transformation yeah it's almost like a ripple
Speaker 1effect right it's a ripple effect yeah your recovery kind of just starts to affect everybody but not at first in my experience it takes time you know it takes time you heal faster than than
Speaker 2they do they have their own healing to do i remember like i was at somebody's a two-year medallion and you know the dad gets up and he goes hey i trust you now two years trust you coming in my house and and and and you know watering the the plants yeah i trust you coming inside my house and having the keys to it right it's a big deal it is it's a big deal right we don't we don't we don't think or look look at those things in retrospect because you know in retrospect it's just like oh it's my family they should trust me they should give me the keys they should i'm doing better i'm doing better now right and even when you're like in in that in that grips in that cycle of addiction like you know you think you think things are owed to you right well at least i did right you know and and that was my perception right and uh it wasn't until everybody in my life was gone where i couldn't blame anybody else besides me right so when i when i say like you know seven years ago i remember i wish for this i i did and i do and man my life today is is is it's hectic but it's it's great and you know i i definitely do a lot of things for myself and i do a lot of things for myself and i do a lot of things for myself that i need to do in order to keep that maintaining and maintenance but you know if i if i sat here and i told you you know that my my recovery has been linear throughout my my seven years and that i've been like you know tapped in i'm a liar i'd be lying to you you know i've struggled over the years and you know today my my solution obviously is not drugs and alcohol but my first real like response to things is not drugs and alcohol the obsession is gone but there's always other things that can creep up you know whether whatever that is right and you know you know for me i'm i'm an all or nothing guy real real hardcore type three shit if there was a type four that would be me you know yeah and you know i gotta watch myself with with other things you know like uh because i have struggled you know with gambling and i've struggled with you know shopping and spending too much money and you know again like the the the perception of like i need to look good and be this this person that people can respect me right like that that that thinking can sometimes come back right and depending on where i'm at spiritually where my condition is at some days i look at that and weigh on that more heavy than other right and i know that when that starts to become more heavy and a sort of a more dominant perspective in my life that's when i know okay i got a topic and i'm not in trouble yet but i will be you know and you know the biggest thing i think i've learned over my time is you know if it's not a big deal i don't want it to become a big deal right because i don't want a little thing to become a bigger
Speaker 1thing you know what i mean yeah because it always starts as a little thing right it's always not a big deal and then it yeah i like that a lot man i i resonated with a lot of that thank you for sharing yeah that the first line thing uh i hadn't thought about that in a while you know that first line And depending on, you know, who you hang out with, what fellowship you go to, you hear a lot of people like talk about that first drink and they fell in love. That wasn't my experience with alcohol. Right. I was, you know, alcohol was always there. It's a problem. I don't drink today. I can't drink today. I can drink, but I choose not to. But I can't just have one. But that was never my experience. I had the experience with the stimulants where it was like, OK, and you said it allowed you to be you. Right. And that was my false perception, too, was like this first line. Oh, I'm finally this guy I want to be. People are laughing at my jokes. I'm the center of attention. You know, I can talk to girls. And you said, too, is I loved it is like all these thoughts and any anxieties and worries and tomorrow it just disappears. Right. Right away. I can relate to that, too. It was it was a good solution for a while, for a bit. Right. Until it wasn't. How did you know you were ready to come back to Toronto? I'm wondering that. How did you know?
Speaker 3Ultra running shoes. Are all about space, the space to go further, to feel better, to do something you never thought possible. And this space starts with ultra fit. Unlike traditional running shoes, ultra fit gives toes more room to move naturally. So every step is strong, balanced and comfortable. Whatever you're lacing up for. Stay out there with ultra shop now at ultra running dot com. That's a L.T.R.A. running dot com.
Speaker 4This episode is brought to you by TXU Energy. For the first time ever, Texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings. It's called free nights and cool summer. You get free nights every night all year long, plus a 25 percent bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first of its kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy. Discover how much more you could save with free nights and cool summer. TXU Energy. Energy for everything. Visit TXU dot com for more information. Rep number one zero zero zero four.
Speaker 2People. Yeah. People. People that knew me for a while. People that were had strong recovery. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1Those people. You could count on and they wouldn't. They wouldn't. Yes, men or yes, women.
Speaker 2Yeah, of course. Because here's the thing, man. Like, you know, in the beginning of this last run around with with recovery, like my faith wasn't there. And I really, truly had to learn that God works through other people. And that was like my higher power, a collective group of people. That have no object or no subjective or emotional sort of, you know, hindsight thinking in my decisions. Right. I needed that. Right. So that was that was what it was. Right. It was just it was learning to trust what other people thought and how other people perceive things. Right. And I obviously, you know, I did some writing around it. And, you know, I would you know, I was big into like I was really big into into writing and doing doing some work to really discover what. What was right, like journaling and, you know, just doing like one, two, three exercises in your head, stuff, one, something like I had to I had to actually visually put it on paper because I could see and also to it was a healthy way of processing how I'm feeling, you know, being able to put it out on paper. But, you know, other people really, you know, because I was scared, I was scared because I was never able to, you know, collectively put any any sobriety time in Toronto. And, you know, every everybody, you know, I'm gone for six years and, you know, every everybody that I know back then is either, you know, has families or doing other things or not around anymore. You know, so when I came back, I really, really like I was I had a lot of fear. You know, how was I going to like who was I going to hang out with? Because I built such a strong community of people out there, you know, that were all in recovery, like every single person I knew there was was was recovery. So when I came back. Like, I got like, you know, four, four friends of mine that I grew up with since I was a kid, you know, that are that are not. recovery you know you know some of them still you know smoke weed here and there and but you know most of them they're successful guys right and you know it was hard it's it's hard to like you know sometimes you know when i when i'm and even when i'm with them it's like you know i always go back sometimes to like the what if you know what the what if if i just would have kept my head straight and where i would have been but i'll tell you anthony like you know i'm so i'm so grateful that i am an addict to a certain degree if that makes any sense of course because you know the the journey and being able to you know appreciate the journey along the way when i think about you know when i when i was telling that story about going into treatment and volunteering like in the moment i'm like what am i doing yeah what am i doing but but i look back and i'm like i'm so appreciative that i just was willing to listen right so i took that that rationale with me everywhere i went so when it was time to go back and be a father in close proximity and be a son you know to my mom and dad who were getting old and you know just being around for them more you know that's when i knew i was ready when you're not willing to wanting to leave that's when you know you're ready you know yeah right so
Speaker 1um yeah i got emotional when you were talking about going into that last treatment center because i hadn't thought about it i hadn't had somebody kind of explain it i had that exact same experience this last time my third treatment center where i was so broken too and and i i had the tools you know because i had put together some time i knew what i had to do but i always say this getting back into recovery is the hardest thing for me staying out here is so much easier than getting back in for me for this addict and alcoholic i you know that's not everybody's story but it was so hard man to get back into recovery and i was so broken and i was so broken and i was so happy to get back in here and when i went to that last treatment center you know i always say this there's a guy d dave w you know 20 years of sobriety and all i remember about my intake was he just looked at me he said son welcome back to recovery you know and i just started crying i was like i made the right decision thank god like finally you know it was you know luckily only five or six probably a year of on and off right a year of suffering right because when you're in and out it's almost worse than just being out sometimes because you know how good it could be i don't know it's kind of this weird thing that happens um and so you know you brought me back to that moment where i just walked in and i was like i looked at my wife dropped me off i looked at her and i just i felt so bad like i couldn't even feel anything in the moment but you know those first couple days when you start to get your feelings back i don't know i don't know if you remember this now because it's it's been a while but i remember it's pretty fresh for me there was like i'd say probably two weeks in you know your brain starts to clear up and you see it you see it right so you see it in all these emotions start to come back and all the shit you put people through comes back 10 times stronger you know and i just felt so bad i was like oh my god i can't believe i put these my mom my dad my wife my sister i put them through it again and i can't believe i did this to myself
Speaker 2again almost like you're on autopilot and you don't really see what you're doing you're just kind of doing it you know and then you're right like feelings start to come back and it's like i don't want to feel this right yeah i don't want to experience this for right now this sucks yeah you know i'm i'm doing everything i can to to run away from it yeah you know but that's what i'm good at yeah you know so when you're right when it starts to come back it's like you know and then and but that's also dangerous and that's dangerous because you want to try to fix everything i want to try to fix everything as quick as possible i gotta get back to work i gotta make i gotta make up for lost time i gotta be a good dad you know but how i don't i don't know how to do any of these things i've been stuck too busy using for the last 15 years right but my thinking is so skewed that you know i'm trying to you know i call it i call it you know jump jumping off guilt or you know something like that where it's like i i gotta i gotta remove and abstain from from the guilt so i need to do these other things right but in that process i'm only making things worse because i'm not learning about you know tolerance or patience or trusting the process or appreciating the journey or you know hearing anybody else i'm just i'm listening to to react and respond rather than to understand right and you know i always say feelings won't kill you drugs and alcohol will yeah right i love that you know so i i hear you right so you know that experience for you too like you know multiple treatment centers and you know you have all of these good things in your in your life but it's like why is it not enough right and you can take every good thing in my life and put it in front of me and you can show me like you know i'm gonna lose all of these things but if i'm not good internally no matter how much i love those people it's not enough and people and i feel like that's something that people have a hard time understanding because logically you're the people that love you and care about you it makes sense but you know emotionally internally it's like it's it's not enough right so you know that's where you really got to do the work on yourself on a consistent basis to to get there you know and then when you appreciate the journey you're in that process you start to understand yeah yeah
Speaker 1the ups and the downs right you're kind of appreciating the downs as being a lesson you know this doesn't make sense to me right now but one day it will one day this will make sense you know you mentioned cross addictions which which i'm you know i think the for me right now the phone is is probably the big one right the computer the phone yeah and i i you know gambling is is a tough one for for people are you seeing a lot of people come in with gambling problems yet because i know they just recently legalized it in ontario not too long ago they legalized it in ontario not too long ago about a year do you are you starting i feel like a lot of people come into rehab maybe for something else and then you have to kind of do the work oh there's this porn addiction here oh
Speaker 2there's this gambling thing right well i'll tell you this i mean if people are coming in with gambling addictions they're not really disclosing right right because again here's something that's provided or presented as a normal thing to do now you know you're you're watching us it's on tv it's on tv and it's it's become part of the game yeah it's become part of the experience i guess you would like to call it right you don't just look at a sporting event or you know and say oh this is just a game it's an experience right and and betting and gambling has become a big big piece of it right so um to answer your question you know i don't see it off that too too much i mean if we've had some cases but i i feel like you know as as we go continue it's coming it's coming and it's probably the scariest addiction i think because money is the drug and it's not about winning or losing so the same sort of feelings that you try to chase with drugs and alcohol you're chasing with gambling and chasing with losing money or winning money right it's it's that why am i escaping by doing this but you know you lose all your money then what you know so very scary and i'm sure you know as we continue to move along you're going to start to see it becoming more and
Speaker 1more prevalent i agree with you and i i think i know this this is it personally to me too but i think like the rates of suicide especially when you're in a situation where you're in a situation with men in that have gambling addictions are starting to go up i read that somewhere it's a
Speaker 2high suicide rate and addiction so it is true that yeah yeah so when you actually gamble you're the same dopamine levels as cocaine it releases the same dopamine wow levels in your head right so that's the two are associated with each other and yeah it's it's pretty it's it's scary it's scary and even like casinos you know people just are so much it's so much it's so readily available and accessible right and you know you know what they say like accessibility can be you know the devil's playground for a person right because it's right there in front of you right so you know people are these days you know everybody's on the phone and people playing online slots and blackjack and you know it's it's it's becoming it's becoming like i guess you call it a pet like a pandemic almost like not pandemic but what's the word epidemic epidemic epidemic yeah
Speaker 1it is yeah yeah so you you talked a little bit about your kind of you know your mental health and how important it is to kind of do your own thing because you're you're really busy with work and i find that you know i i can get lost in helping other people i was mentoring for a bit and i've mentored a lot of guys luckily one of the best parts of this this whole thing by far by far like bar none you know it's changed my life right and i can't wait to get back into it what do your daily habits look like to kind of take care of your own recovery
Speaker 2so i pray in the morning sometimes i'll meditate but i pray in the morning i read i read the just for the day every day because again i never know when whenever it is i read something you know when it when it's gonna hit you know and kind of set me straight right Because, again, I need to be reminded of certain things. When I'm in extreme thinking, when I'm in, you know, there's days where I wake up and I don't want to adult, you know. That's so true for me. I want to be like a little kid, you know. And I look at responsibility sometimes as a burden rather than a privilege, right. So, you know, reading the Just for Today, which is something that was true and near and dear to me in my early recovery, you know, I do that and then, you know, I get to work. And, you know, I would like to say that, you know, I go to a lot of meetings, but I don't. And, you know, that's something that I definitely need to continue to work on. But I have a sponsor. I'm going through the book again, you know, and I got a couple people reaching out that I'm going to take to the book too. And, you know, when stuff sort of slows down for me. But, you know, for me, man, like physical exercise is so important. You know, playing sports is so important. Like tennis or, you know, baseball. I play in a baseball league too. And I should mention that, like, you know, recovery softball was such a big instrumental piece to my recovery when I was out there too. Like it really was good to help me bond and form relationships with other people and meet other people, right. And so it was so cool to do that. That was like a really, really great time for me, right. So, you know, just those things and reminding myself that I need to have balance in my life. And, you know. And understanding that, like, you know, as long as I know I do my best every day, it's enough. Not much more I can do, you know. So that and, you know, even working in this field, like, you know, people always say, okay, well, I work in this field. That's my, no way. Working in an environment like that has a mental toll.
Speaker 1Sure, yeah.
Speaker 2Big time. Big time. And. You've got to have maintenance for yourself. Yeah. You really do. So that's kind of what it was for me.
Speaker 1Like if you, even if you just look at the stats and the numbers, right. Like this data, the stats and numbers do not favor us, right. So you put that in the treatment center environment. How many clients do you get, you know, thousands, right. In a month, I'm sure. Or in a couple of months. Yeah. It's a big treatment center. You're going to see more people unfortunately fail than succeed, right. And I don't like the word fail because. You know, relapse is not failure. I've learned that. Failure is the wrong word, but relapse and kind of stumble a bit, right. Why do you think people relapse like today? I know that that's kind of a multifaceted answer, right? There's a lot of reasons, but just like today, why do you think, what are you seeing?
Speaker 2I think time, I think, you know, people want to really get it in such a quick time. And, and, and they sort of let go of the, the gas, I think people, you know, how willing are they, right. And I don't know, like, like for me, man, like, and, and from the people that I've, you know, gone in clean and sober with, I still talk to some of the people that I went through treatment with and we were, we were willing to do whatever it took. Right. And I think sometimes people just have a lack of willingness. And I don't mean to say that in like a rude or disrespectful way. I'm just, it's, it's what it is. But I think time, I think, I think people look at how quickly or, you know, in a short period of time, I want to get everything back. Right. And I think that they sort of just, they fall off because of that. You know, they don't take it as seriously or they don't, they're not, you know, the desperation goes away. You know, they start feeling good, putting a little bit of weight back, getting some color in their face, families talking to them. And then it's like, okay. See you later, guys. I got this. I got everything I needed from you. I don't need to be around here anymore. Thank you. But here I go. I'm going to go. I got some catching up to do. Yeah. Deuces, right? And I think that's a big reason. But I also think like, you know, communities is huge. Lack of community for people, connection. Like me and you are having a conversation right now and we can relate to each other and it makes me feel like I'm, I'm more normal just by talking to you, right? Like if you're left to your own devices and you're, and you're surrounding yourself with people that don't understand the struggle of what you're going through, what you've been through, you know, you're going to feel alone again. So what you have some sobriety under your boat. And sometimes I always tell people, like, if you don't have a good program or you don't have connections with people or, you know, you're not talking to somebody, you're not doing what you need to do. Like being sober is not enough either. Because you start feeling miserable again. Right. And it's like, yeah, of course people are going to go back to, you know, the, the, the thing that they're comfortable in that coping mechanism, you know, because they know it's familiar. It's there. Right. So I think those factors play a huge part too.
Speaker 1No, that's a good answer. And yeah, you mentioned community, you know, today I was having one of those days where I was in my head and I was alone and I'm grateful to be an addict too. I want to say that too, because I truly am like, I would never have, I would never have discovered these tools that. I have today to tackle life and anything that life throws at me. If I didn't, you know, get hit some sort of rock bottom, you know, so I'm, I'm grateful too, because yeah, there's a beautiful, there's, you know, you mentioned mediocrity, but it's, it's, I kind of, I like that, that idea of, I have a purpose, a purpose in my life today, and it's not going to be everything I want, but it's going to be everything I need. And then I'm going to find out. And it says this in the literature, right? I'm going to find out that all along. It's what I wanted anyways. Right. All the stuff that I needed is what I wanted. And I didn't really want the car. I didn't want the girl. I didn't want the, you know, whatever.
Speaker 2Is your car going to hug you and tell you it loves you every night? No, but two cars might, and then three is money going to fucking kiss you on the, on the cheek and say, I'm proud of you. And you know, like, I hope you have a good night. Like, no, like. It's people, man, like, you know, and all of the other stuff is just helps you provide some sense of comfort and ease, but it's not a sustainable solution. Yeah. Right. And I had to learn that the hard way. Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah. I mean, we're, we're, we're stubborn people. A lot of us. Right. Yeah. Let's, let's end with this. I know at least on my, on this podcast, I get a lot of messages from, from family members and I'm sure you deal a lot with family reaching out to you before the addict. Right. If you could say something to, you know, a wife struggling with her husband or, or husband struggling with her wife, with his wife going through this or a mom and the kid that's, you know, just doesn't know what to do anymore. What would you say to that loved one?
Speaker 2I would, I would, I would say like, don't give up, you know, keep trying to, you know, fight the best way that you can for the loved one and, and, and don't give up hope because. If I can stay sober, you can stay sober and you already can really stay, you know, anyone can get this right. And, uh, I really think, I really truly believe that, you know, you just can't give up hope and do everything you can, you know, to, to help and just be there for, you know, be there for them the best way that you can and doing it in a way that's like supportive. But there is a lot of help along the way. I mean, you know, our organization is, you know, big in this. Saving lives, reuniting families, right? That's what Addiction Rehab Toronto stands for. But, you know, just don't give up. Don't give up hope. Um, you'll be amazed, you know, that miracles do come true. And I always tell people like stay in your shoes and don't leave before the miracle happens and don't give up. Right. Stay a little longer. Try a little harder, you know, and, you know, I always tell families like I aligned with this. I always say like, don't worry. You know, your son or your husband or your daughter, they're in good hands, you know, because, you know, there's nothing can teach you live the experience. Nothing. Right. And just don't give up hope.
Speaker 1Love it. Thanks so much for coming down. I appreciate it, man. Thank you. I love you, buddy. Thank you.
Speaker 2Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
Speaker 4This episode is brought to you by TXU Energy. For the first time ever, Texans have an energy plan that combines free nights all year with daytime summer savings. It's called Free Nights and Cool Summer. You get free nights every night all year long, plus a 25% bonus toward your daytime use all summer. It's a first of its kind plan created for how Texans actually use energy. Discover how much more you could save with Free Nights and Cool Summer. TXU Energy. Energy. for everything. Visit TXU.com for more information. Rep number 101.
Speaker 6Hank joined BJ's Wholesale Club the day he became a father of 30. I coach football. Now Coach Hank saves up to 25% off grocery store prices. 30 pounds of pasta, 3 cases of protein bars, 75 sports drinks. And that's just pregame. He knows teamwork, and BJ's knows savings. This is your home, Coach. Home of the save. Join for just $20 at BJ's.com slash mesquite and save 10 cents per gallon for 6 months. Open soon. Limited time offer. New members only. BJ's, home of the save.
PodcastTranscript AI