From Hollywood to The Moon

Speaker 1 Hello everyone, Welcome to another edition of the Peoplescape podcast. Very honored today to have a extremely interesting guest, Gary Goldstein. Gary started his career as a Hollywood producer and is now doing a venture capital with some amazing companies, but really excited to learn more about his story. Welcome Gary. Thanks for joining us. Speaker 2 Gordon, fun to be here. Thank you so much. Speaker 1 Gary Well, yeah, pleasure's ours, but, you know, thank, thank you for joining. And I, I know you're based in in California. We were introduced to a mutual friend and, you know, 2 very iconic films. And there it is a couple more, but 22 very iconic ones that I was very excited to when I heard that you were involved with as the executive producer. One Pretty Woman and the other one Under Siege and I know you were involved with those really, you know, the things that I that I think I think films that are so when you grow up, when you grew up in the 90s, kind of came into the 90s like I did. They were certainly part of our. Speaker 2 Our our our time growing. Speaker 1 Up. But you know, we'd love to hear about how you got involved with Hollywood to start, and then we could pivot a little bit and talk about what you're up to now. Speaker 2 Absolutely. Well, you know, listen, I in a sense I've, I've had a rather unplanned life. But, you know, coming out of college, I went to UC Berkeley and I came out, I was a hippie and I had a bunch of really weird, odd jobs and, you know, just didn't see where I fit on the map of, of, you know, the, in the marketplace of humanity. And so I just bumbled around for several years. And then I decided to go to law school partially because I had this overly romantic idea of what it would be to be a criminal defense lawyer. I'd watch too much TV. And there was a foundation in a underserved part of San Francisco where I interned, and I was all excited, right? It was also an excuse, you know, like, I was a daydreamer. I was always in books and stories and like from a very young age, like that was where I came alive. And I thought the courtroom, you know, if you don't learn to tell a good story, you're in trouble. So that would be a good sharpening stone for me. Anyway, Long story short, I did that. I went to law school. I became a criminal defense lawyer. Amazing chapter of my life. A terrible mismatch of temperament to reality, right? It, it was just too harsh and, and it, I was exhausted by it after a couple of years and I ran away to the circus, which is Los Angeles to get into the film business. Didn't really know LA didn't know a soul here or, or, and I knew less about the business. But you know, I just, I, I, every guy in my family, both sides of the family were entrepreneurs. They never went into their father's business. They always went off in different and everybody did fine. Not, you know, not Warren Buffett, but they did fine. And so I just thought if you're stubborn and you work hard, you know, anyway, Long story short, did a literary management company for 10 years to sort of learn the business, represent young writers and directors, break them into film and TV. But you know, the game was ultimately I wanted to produce. And during a writers strike, the business shut down for, you know, close to a year. We knew it was going to be a long strike and I had a client who wanted to direct. He was a writer. I wanted to produce. We took advantage and made a little goofy film that became a little bit of a cult film. Accountable Women in the Avocado Jungle of Death made it for $200,000 during the strike. Just I got the bug. That was it. I like OK, everything else is off the table. Forget the management company. I just wanted to produce movies and the and and this young writer was brilliant at creating women, really complex women lead characters. So I said to him, you know, you've got a bunch of college scripts. They're too quirky. I want a mature 2 handed male female lead. Very castable. We could make it for seven cents if we don't get big name stars, but we could also make it a studio film if we got really lucky. And I along that same time anyway, he had he had he had just been left by his girlfriend in five years, the love of his life. He was 23. He was heartbroken. So I looked at this guy and I I know it sounds a little sadistic, but I said, do me a favor, write a spec. And I needed to be a romance. And I knew that he would bleed truth onto the paper, right? So he wrote. He wrote a script called 3000, which became Pretty Woman. Speaker 1 That's just the number. Why was it called 3000 to start? Speaker 2 It's the number of dollars Edward pays Vivian. Speaker 1 It's an HR podcast. Disclaimer, I love it. Speaker 2 Anyway, and and and along the way and and and the first draft of the script was just absolutely stunningly brilliant. Speaker 1 Really. Speaker 2 I took it to Sundance. I I sent it to a friend. That's the Sundance Institute. They do these amazing workshops and labs. And we went to the production lab. We got invited. We were one of eight. We were on the front page, Variety and the Hollywood reporters because it was a big honor to be picked. That's how good the script was. He and I were both young and unknown. Speaker 1 Yeah. Speaker 2 But we went up and that brought a lot of attention to it. Around and about that time there was this young actress. Well, friends of mine, Mark and Scott, they were the producers. They produced a indie film called Mystic Pizza, an amazing film, right? And in it was Julia Roberts. I didn't know her name. I didn't know who she was. But I at the when the lights came up from this friends and family screening where we were supposed to give feedback, you know what what to change when I said it's perfect, but you got to introduce me to this girl, what's her name? Julia Roberts. OK. And they did. She was Vivian. Speaker 1 What was that first meeting like? Speaker 2 It was very straight ahead. I mean, I actually, I didn't meet her right away. I just, I was, I was said, you know, here's here's how you get a script to Julie. Here's how you get a script to her manager, Elaine Goldsmith. I sent scripts and then I got the call back saying, Oh my God, you know, I'm madly in love with this. And we met and she's she's everything that you would imagine is Vivian. She has that effervescent, irresistible, undeniable, energetic, crazy laugh and smile and, you know, presence, right? It's genuinely who she is. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 So, and that takes nothing away from her acting because her acting is amazing. But you know, it was essentially a role that was tailor made. She had shot Steel Magnolias, but it hadn't come out. So she was still unknown. But anyway, so she attached. She stayed attached for three years before I got it to Disney and actually got it made. We trip through, you know, it's very typical. Films always go off the road, fall over a Cliff, then you bring them back, you try again. It's hard to get a film made right. You know, the moving parts, money, distribution, talent, director, all etcetera. But I and I had optioned the script to a couple of independent companies in sequence, one of which went on into bankruptcy and I got the script out before it did and etcetera, etcetera. But I, I, I, I had Julia attached while I was trying to figure out how am I really going to get this made. And I knew that I wanted Richard because he was the guy, right? He was perfect and he was he. Speaker 1 Was well known. I mean, he'd done a lot by this. Speaker 2 Time he was, he was a big star. It wasn't at the very peak of his career, cause careers go like this right up and down. And and, and Richard said no to me a couple of times because, you know, honestly, a romantic comedy is always her story. And, and he didn't want to play second banana to an unknown actress in a, in a he has dark taste. He likes drama, not comedy. Long story short, I, I sent the I sent the script to as a writing sample to an executive at touched on the sister label to Disney and I said, this script is not available. It's under option to another company. But the writer's brilliant and you're going to love the script and we're going to come in and we're going to picture a couple of Disney appropriate ideas. This one's not Disney. It's a better working girl. I get a call several days later saying we want to buy it. I said wrong script. You read the wrong script. It's about a prostitute. He said that's the one. It's like, OK, head scratch when in for a meeting, usually it's you're meeting a studio executive and an assistant. That's it. Walk in. There's 25 people in the room. It's the chairman of the studio. It's the president of the studio. It's it's Garry Marshall, the director with his a casting director, a line producer. I mean, the room was filled with all these people. It was like, and I had no idea why. So they, it turns out they had What about Bob, the film? What about Bob? It went off the rails. It was supposed to star Michael. Originally it was Michael Keaton. Then it became Bill Murray. But before it became Bill Murray, Keaton's deal blew up. They had everyone assembled. Everybody in that room was assembled and no film to make. And they were going to plug us in. Oh. Speaker 1 Wow. Speaker 2 So the president of the studio short. Speaker 1 Short aside, Gary, how small the world it is. The house for what about Bob was Smith Mountain Lake in Virginia. My wife grew up going to that house, the exterior shots with her friend. Her friends owned it. Yeah. Anyway, so keep going. But a little connection. Speaker 2 Long story short, they just looked at me and said, can you make you know in the writer and said, you know on the it's, it's, it needs to be lightened up. It, it's, it's a drama. We need it, it's Disney. We need it to be more light comedy. And I just looked around the room in our room, every 25 people staring at at us. And I just looked at the president, David, and said, yeah, we know exactly how to do that. And everybody broke out in jubilation. And that was that. And, you know, so then the script got rewritten. We went by. I asked them, please go back to Richard Gere because he's perfect for this. And but I've never had a big director, a big checkbook and, you know, but I needed him because they were never going to go with Julia as an unknown unless I had a star name to anchor it. Speaker 1 When they were reading, did you as as an executive, you were an executive producer or I know there's the the difference between executive and. Speaker 2 Producer. I got bumped down to Co producer, but I was a producer. You know, we're, we're a bunch of producers. Speaker 1 Right, it isn't. And maybe I'll get this wrong, but isn't when you say producers are more hands on than an executive producer in the business? Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, Co producer. That's definitely hands on. Speaker 1 So when you saw them read for the first time together, was the chemistry Do you? Can you tell when the chemistry is there A. Speaker 2 1000%. Speaker 1 Oh, that's cool. OK, Yeah. Speaker 2 I, I knew it would be, but also I'll tell you, Disney likes to Disney was bringing in every known name, male and female, and they were doing auditions and screen tests and, and you know what have you? And every time I watched the live or, or, or screen tested appearing, my heart sank. It was like I'm watching my film die. Speaker 1 So you just knew this. There were these two people had to do it. Speaker 2 And when they did it, I mean, it was so, it was so extraordinary. It was like the film burned up in the camera. It was just too hot. It was great. Speaker 1 Did was it all filmed in Southern California on locations? Yeah. Yeah. OK. Yeah. I mean, it's it's it's so cool. Well, I mean, I know we could talk about this for forever, but I will say this is something my, my 17 year old daughter just watched it this week and she loved it. And you know, there's so many, there's, you know, some very powerful themes in there, but I think it's one of those that leaves you feeling great as you as, as the, as the credits roll. Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely a feel good film. I was I I final note on this and we can move on. But I was actually really nervous as the film was about to be released that I mean, test audiences went it it all went well. You know, the more humor we put back in, the more people liked it. But I was I was really I mean, it was 1990 that it came out early 90 and that was near the height of feminism. And I was absolutely like we're putting forward a young woman who has a sex worker. I think we're about to get publicly stoned and but, and yet the film is so it, it was, let's put it this way, it was received so enthusiastically by the feminist leaders of the time, along with everybody else. Like there's something that overrode whatever might have been politically incorrect at the time. Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. And. Speaker 2 And and by the way, she is the moral superior. Speaker 1 That's right, right? That's right. That's very clear throughout the the entire piece. He thinks he can buy his way out of everything and there's he can't. Speaker 2 Yeah, she's she's the Sherpa taking him up the mountain. Speaker 1 That's very, very interesting. Yeah. Well, so it was a a great movie. And if do you mind, just very quickly, you know, one of my I I vividly remember going to see the next one. We're going to talk about Under Siege in the theater in 1992. I was 14 and I just thought it was the coolest movie ever. But same writer as pretty one. Speaker 2 Same writer he had I we were at lunch one day, A Pretty Woman had obviously become and was continuing to be very successful in the theaters. And I said, look, I don't want you to write another romantic comedy. I don't want you to get pigeon holed out. Tell me about your life. Tell me you know because we knew each other and we were very friendly, but I realized I there was a lot about his life I didn't know. So I said, you know, take me back. Tell me it turned out I've never done military service. I've always been fascinated by the experience I didn't have right. I, I, I just find it very alluring. And he described that he was in the Coast Guard Reserve and got and underwent counter terrorist training prior to the Olympics coming to Los Angeles. And I made him explain in more detail, like tell me stories, tell me what that's like, tell me about the environment, what kind of, what kind of ships you were on, battleships, whatever. And the more he talked, the more I was leaning in and I said, can you write me a film in that set in that world? Because that is amazing. And that birth, what was originally called Dreadnought, which is the British name for a battleship, but got changed to Under Siege. You know, it was a it was a just a really well written, you know, it, it, it was, it was weirdly a great balance between drama and comedy. And I think it was the first time, you know, it was kind of like that was the era of die hard and die hard spin offs, right? But it but no one had attached to, you know, a girl who jumps out of a cake from you know, who's who's done one episode of hunter in a wet N wild video to the hip of the hero. And it just seemed like a really kind of fun, fresh approach. And we had a ball making it. Oh my gosh, we shot that well, if. Speaker 1 People forget, was it nominated or did it win an Oscar for best sound? Speaker 2 It was nominated. Actually, I think we won. No, no, I think it was nominated for. It was not. Speaker 1 But it won several other awards. But if you the editing is brilliant. I mean, the way the soundtrack goes, I think it won another award for that helicopter sequence as well for the best action sequence, maybe the MTV Awards. There's, you know, a lot, I feel sometimes these days you'll see action movies and they they have kind of a cheesy factor. And obviously I know there's some fantasy involved, but everything the way that one was done was not, it was just, you know, Steven Seagal nailed it as the as the the hero there. The villains are very much not likable and it really just, I think flows really, really well and and it feels like you're you're in the middle of the action. Speaker 2 Yeah, now it was. It was really well done. Andy Davis, great director. We had a great crew, great director. You know, we had a great supporting cast. So, yeah, it was, you know, surprisingly successful and still to this day, you know, people enjoy it. It's a it's a very enjoyable film. The premise was pretty, you know, we thought it was pretty wild premise. But turns out that actually I learned later from a guy who served in the Navy and he his job was security in the on for nuclear weapons on these battleships. They had stripped out the budgets for security. They just didn't believe it was really a problem. And then with our film that it made them so nervous, they actually reinstated security budgets for nuclear weapons and battleships, which was like it. Who could imagine that, right? I mean. Speaker 1 You, you were too realistic. Well, I know I want to switch gears to the Ventures PC work on now, but one last one, Gary, because I know we didn't talk about this when we spoke last week, but Mothman Prophecies. Speaker 2 Yeah, that was Mothman was a script based on a true story based on a book. Yeah. Speaker 1 I mean, that's what I thought was very interesting. There's the there the true story piece. Speaker 2 Yeah, the journalist wrote a book that that basically documented all of these very strange paranormal experiences in the Small Point Pleasant in West Virginia back in the 66671967 on the eve of Christmas. It went on for several months where people reported all these sightings and strange events. The the, the the script centered around. We added a central character who went to this town. He was a journalist. Speaker 1 Richard Gere, yeah. Speaker 2 And when I read the first, the, the the writer who brought it to me, because I didn't discover it, a writer discovered it, brought it to me and said, you know, I, I had also produced an earlier script of his which became the sequel to Under Siege. And he said, look, you know, I take a look at this. And it had been passed on by everybody in town, every major and independent and many major passed on this project. I read it and it knocked knock my socks off. It was it. And it was very emotional because it actually reminded me of my experience for 1218 months after the path and my dad passed away. I kept having sightings of my father and just it was a very weird like I couldn't, I didn't see where the edges of reality were. And anyway, there was I learned that there was one company and only one company that hadn't seen it, and that was a company called Lakeshore. Great film, great company. So I sent it over to them and I get a, you know, the weekend read, they read on the week and they call you Monday morning, get the Monday morning call. And it's not one, not the one executive I sent it to, but it's three. It's she, her boss and the ultimate boss, the president of the company, whose name is also Gary. The three of them are on the phone and I'm like, this is unusual, this must be good news. They go on and they say this is beautifully crafted. It's so amazing. It's like, you know, they just went on and on. Can't believe it's actually a true story based on. And they went on for like 5 minutes and then finally said, so thanks for sending it over, it's going to be a pass. I was like, OK, there was this long silence and I knew that they were the only potential buyer. So at one point I just simply said, you know, listen, guys, I, you know, we have a very respectful relationship. We've never made a film together, but I would love to. And you, you know, you're within your rights, but I have to, for the moment, I'm going to very respectfully pass on your pass. And they broke out in laughter and I said, just give me a chance to come in and talk to you. And they, and a week later I'm in their office and, you know, I, I, I really didn't know quite what rabbit I was going to try and pull out of a hat that I did, a hat that I didn't have, but I ended up just like, it just was very natural. And I just, you know what, I'm going to tell you the truth. This story is about my father. And I told them about my, our relationship and who he was and what he was to me and what happened when he died. And, you know, we're all hardwired. Even even people who haven't lost someone, if they're too young to have lost someone, we understand the pain and, and, and and the despair of loss. Yeah. I can't imagine any actor, any director, any audience really, who isn't going to be moved by that. And and that's, you know, that's what drives the film. So to my great shock, they changed their mind right there. You know, they, they huddled for a few minutes, came back in the room and said, you know what? We think you're right. We're going to, we're going to do this. They, I mean, they end up making a film for $42 million. That's a big change of heart. So it was like, thank you because this was important to me. It was a a private homage to my dad. Speaker 1 I know that you are not as involved with the film industry anymore, Gary, but what advice when I'm sure people call you, ask you for advice. You know, there's a lot a lot of stories of resiliency that that I think we can take from, from your journey there. And obviously, you know, I think sometimes the stars have to align as well with with things, but also like just, you know, not giving up, having a great, great content with the people that believe in it and the right talent behind it can win. But what advice do you give to to people that come to you and say, Hey, how do I breakthrough? Speaker 2 You know, I think first of all, you have to believe in yourself and you have to believe that you walk into every conversation, every meeting, every encounter as an equal. Now that sounds ridiculous because, you know, I might be the guy who fell off a turnip truck. I don't even know what a script looks like. Whatever, it doesn't matter. Human being, you bring your humanity into the room, your story in the world. We're all unique. We're like each of us is like beyond magic. Mathematically, we're miracles. You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's crazy. 4 billion years, a spark of life, Lugar last universal common ancestor, single living cell and we and we evolve. No two of us alike in the entire history of humankind. No two of us are alike and and and that's true genetically, but in terms of our personality, how we the lens through which we see life, bring all of you without bragging out, you're just humbly honestly bring yourself into it. Be curious about the other. Build the relationship first. Be be generous in that way. Be so insecure and nervous that you're all focused on your own. You know what's going on inside be a relationship builder. That's how, that's how you're going to, and it's, it's true, I think of any industry in light at any, any area of endeavor, but I think it's actually even more so in a creative sandbox like film and TV, you know, show up in a way where you're making a contribution, not just needing help or seeking a favor or what have you, you know, and, and, and don't feel like an imposter. I remember reading this thing, cognitive science updates. I, I read this thing about, you know, 'cause I think that's the biggest, the biggest hurdle people have the biggest, their Achilles heel is they don't, they try to hide behind their script. Here's, here's my, you know, read this. They're the product, not the script, you know, that's the output. But I remember in this, you know, idea that relentless self doubt is actually the ultimate proof of your competence. High intelligence. Yeah. High intelligence. Brains grasp how much they still don't know while incompetent people stay, you know, blindly confident. If you. So if you feel like a fraud, you're likely the most capable person in the room. Fear is a signal of quality, you know, And I've had nothing. You know, we all suffer that, or many of us do. I certainly have. That voice is quieted down over the years, but I'm still human. So it crops up once in a woman. But you know what? Speaker 1 Look at. Speaker 2 It as a positive sign, right? You know, don't buy into the negative voices whatever anyway, just, you know, put your best foot forward. That's it Know that you're going to get 1000 no's before the yes it that's just there's no way around that. But enjoy what you're doing, enjoyed this choice that you've made to be a creative to be whether it's a writer, a director, whatever, whatever you're, you know, producer, it doesn't matter. Surround yourself with relentless humans, bright humans, good humans like that all acts. You know, the old cliche is true. It's always be increasing the caliber of humanity that is your inner circle and you and and and make friends with those kinds of people. I mean, it's just, and you know, there's this old idea like rejection. People are terrified of the word No, no, no. It's your best friend. It's your best friend. If you get a no, the more Nos you get, the more you're in the game. You're not in the stands. You're on the court playing the game. If you're getting Nos, you're doing something right. And the only question is, how fast are you moving toward your next no? Because if you you know, like, if you knew that your hundredth attempt was the one that changed everything, you'd race through those first 99 as fast as you humanly could. Yeah. In business, we treat rejection as a sign to stop. But for the world's most successful entrepreneurs, and that goes for creatives, those 99 Nos aren't failures. They're the data points that you need to build a model that actually works for people in private. And you're learning with each one, right. Yeah. Yeah. Start collecting it as fast as you can. Every time I got a know, at first, I didn't realize this. And then I I did fairly early come to realize. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. If Gordon says no to Gary, you don't like saying no. It's it's uncomfortable, it's awkward, right? We don't like rejecting each other, but you do you because legitimately it's a pass for you, right? So you say no. And I in that moment, I have a choice before I open my mouth, like I think, oh, wait a minute, this is a moment. This is a valuable moment. So instead of going on woe is me ending the call, I'm going to look to you and say, Gordon, look, we don't know each other that well, but the but, but, but here's the reality. This is a learning moment for me. I really appreciate you taking the time and bothering to read the damn thing. And you're passing for a reason. And I have no judgement about it. I, I, I really do thank you. But if you could just share with me, if you could take 60 seconds and 90 seconds and whatever it is to tell me why this is a pass for you, that would mean the world to me. I've just done two things. One, I've made it OK for you to say no, I've taken, I've taken the sting out of it, right. But I've also shown you respect, honored you and but basically without saying it, I've deepened the bond. Speaker 1 Yeah, you're not burning bridges, right? Speaker 2 That's in the future. Instead of being afraid of calling Gordon again because he rejected me before, I now have someone who's like, oh, we're. Speaker 1 Again, we're being equals. Speaker 2 We're just being honest humans. Speaker 1 Such great advice it's such great advice well, so you know I know you you weren't satisfied being an industry where you get a lot of nose so then you decided to go into venture capital where there's you know so many yeses out there and raising a venture fund it's so easy let's. Speaker 2 There's a few 100 million. Let's get the bigger nose. Let's get more nose right. But that's, that's, you know, that's evolution. That's like just saying, you know what, I need a bigger challenge. I want to do more. I, you know, the stories of, of where we as a species are going are much more enticing to me right now. So I get to play with people, brilliant people, teams of people who are doing and tackling incredible missions, solving big problems. I have to raise capital. I have to do, you know, there's a bunch of different things I, you know, that I do, whether it's as an advisor or a venture partner in a, in a, in a fund and, and yeah, I got a lot more no's than yeses, but I build relationships every step of the way. I get stronger every day because of that. Grateful for it. And yeah, I do get yeses because the, you know, the longer we're around, the more artful and we just present better. We tend to increase the ratio of yes to no or no to yes, whatever it is. And you know, that's, that's, that's the beauty of being stubborn and sticking around and sticking through it and not giving up on yourself. Speaker 1 So, so Greg, well, just briefly, I'd love to hear with Andromeda, what types of industries are you looking at funding? Speaker 2 We're looking at, it's an interesting frame. We're looking at it's, you know, we're in the space economy now. We are space Earth, meaning one of our GPS is the former head of she was the assistant administrator, Space Technology Mission Directorate at NASA headquarters, meaning she was in charge of all the missions and all the and all the technology. She had worked her way up over 35 years. She just left. She's now AGP in our fund, and the idea is that every technology that gets developed to aid in the bed, a launch to go into anything from low Earth orbit to deep space, these things, these problems that need to be solved are technologies. And these technologies inevitably always benefit life on Earth first. So their dual use, their dual purpose. And Crystal was the one who actually, she and her team created a list of 187 tech shortfalls that stand between US and sustainable human habitation on the lunar surface and then beyond. So we're gonna, we're gonna solve those and we're gonna solve those by finding really brilliant people who are, who are literally ticking down that list of critical issues that need to be solved in with technology. And, and we know, we know where the validated gaps are. We have people on our team who are from backgrounds are DoD and intelligence and NASA and, you know, just, it's a, it's an amazing collection of people. So, yeah, we're, we're looking to create resilience on Earth and resilience beyond Earth. And that could be national security, communications, materials, food, water, I mean propulsion, energy, it just goes on and on and on. Yeah. Speaker 1 We get to. Speaker 2 Talk to My job is basically talking to people much smarter than me every day. Speaker 1 Well, I was just as you were talking about the lunar surface, I'm thinking about, you know, the title for this podcast and you know, from pretty from Pretty Woman to the moon, perhaps something like that. We'll, we'll, we'll clear it with you first. You know, one thing I'd love to it's such a fascinating journey. When we started, you mentioned how important books were reading and sort of being in, you know, that the sort of using your imagination was in your life. And I always love to ask guests, is there a book that influenced you the most or that you kind of go back to is something that was, you know, what you might call your favorite? Speaker 2 God, there's so many books that have been really important. You know, I, I, I know it is, it's probably, you heard this, you probably hear this a lot, but I would say one of one of the books that I think has to be at near the top, if not at the top of the list is is Viktor Frankel's book Man's Search for Meaning. Speaker 1 You, you can't, you can't really feel sorry for yourself when you're reading that. Speaker 2 Yeah, you want some perspective on what it is to be, you know, to to to, you know, successfully navigate this journey called life that book 100. Speaker 1 Percent. That's a great choice. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Gary, it's been a pleasure spending this time with you. Thank you for all the insights. There's so much here. And really appreciate it. And look forward to continuing our friendship and and and and getting that dinner in in LA one of these days. Speaker 2 Likewise, Gordon, I I really appreciate it for your audience. Whatever this is a newfound friendship. We were introduced by a good friend of ours and we had we had our initial conversation, Gordon was absolutely like stunning. And so I really appreciate you and I look forward to sitting down and breaking bread together. Thanks for having me. Thank you. Speaker 1 Thank you, Gary. Pleasure's all mine. Appreciate it. Bye bye.