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Speaker 2100 teenagers on my farm at the weekend for a party. They were delightful. They were noisy. They were annoying. Some of them were drunk. But they were such fun. And I think that if we look down the lens to find problems, you will find them.
Speaker 3Hello and welcome to the How Not to Screw Up Your Kids podcast. So. Pour yourself a cuppa, find a comfy seat, and enjoy the conversation. Today's episode, I am joined by Tish Fielden, who is co-founder of Jamie's Farm. Now, Tish is a psychotherapist, a former teacher, and she's Jamie's Farm co-founder. And what I really enjoyed about the interview that I had with Tish is that she talks about the empowering impact of cooperation and teamwork and being able to do what you love. And she talks about the empowering impact of being able to do what you love. Being outside in nature and the impact that that has on young people's lives. And I think the core tenets of what Tish and I talk about are so helpful when it comes to us as parents being able to understand the challenges that adolescents face. So, you know, Tish is on the ground working with these teens and seeing the profound impact of teamwork and how that changes young people who may well be excluded in school or may be school refusing. And how, when we provide the scaffolding, when we provide that opportunity, how instrumental that can be in alleviating anxiety, improving mental well-being, just in improving that engagement and that connection with their peers. And so, and whilst the work that Tish does and Jamie's Farm is much more about a broader way of supporting adolescents, and young people, there are so many valuable lessons that we can take as parents from what is happening in Jamie's Farms and how they are then improving and fostering this sense of confidence and resilience. And you're going to learn a huge amount. It's super, super practical and really helpful tips and strategies that we will discuss. So, I think it's best to hand over now to Tish. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. Oh, so great to have you. Let's start with just a general, because people won't know who you are. But so, let's start off with who are you and what do you do?
Speaker 2So, I'm known to everyone as Tish and I am many things. I was a teacher, a psychotherapist, and then I set up Jamie's Farm with my son. So, within that organisation, I've transitioned from being the therapeutic coordinator to now, across seven farms, checking on the methodology that we are delivering the best possible experience to children, training staff, now involved with training teachers as well, and other youth workers, and generally trying to share what I've learnt. You know, I'm 70, so I've learnt a little bit along the way. But I've learnt, what I've had to do is unlearn what I learnt in books and learn it from experience and from listening and being alongside children.
Speaker 3Which I'm going to ask you about in a moment. But I just want to, for those of you, obviously, this podcast episode will be an audio. I'm telling you that Tish looks incredible. Oh, that's kind of. Just saying that. Now, I think, having looked at the website and just done a bit of digging, you have engaged, the farms themselves are seven. Yes. You have engaged with over 16,000 young people. We have. I suspect it's probably significantly more than that. What ages are they and what are the common themes? What are the things that they're telling you about? Because growing up in 2025, 2020 is a whole other board. It certainly is.
Speaker 2And so the ages of the children are usually from nine, 10-year-olds to 20-year-olds. The bulk of the children, I would say, that are struggling in school and therefore get referred through their schools to us as groups are probably 11 to 16. I think teenage years are most challenging. And the support systems are not quite so deliverable because they're in big numbers in big schools. Yes. So we've done that. We started in my home and it was an experiment. And I have to say, thankfully, it was so astonishingly moving to see the impact that was lasting that we managed to establish this as a charity and work with schools and other organisations to grow it into several farms. But the essence is that the problem. There have always been difficulties for some children. But I think, as we both feel, they're certainly not insignificant now and they're getting bigger and bigger across the board rather than just being the unfortunate children growing up in unfortunate circumstances.
Speaker 3Yes. It's staggering the number of children. The statistic that I've got of 1.6 million who are persistently absent from school. I mean, that's for 2021 to 2023. My suspicion is that the data is only going to be going. It's an upward direction. What have you found? And of course, if you're working. The bulk of the young people that you're working with are 11 to 16. That's the real classic. I've transitioned to my senior school and some senior schools are enormous. You know, I'm hearing sort of 10 form entries for some of them. Oh, yes. Sort of 300 in a year. What are the common things that you're. sort of seeing or noting from the young people that contributes towards this persistent absenteeism?
Speaker 2I think that if you start from what they make of school in terms of their ambition, you know, what am I going to get out of it? They really cannot link it, a lot of them, to very much of their ambition for their own future. Some children who live sort of a very digitally based life have been convinced that they can make money through being YouTubers or rappers or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Some of them say, why should I turn up to school and learn all this information when I can just. I can search for it on the internet. I can Google it. But many of them, particularly past COVID, have really lost their social and emotional confidence. So I would say that school is a very difficult place to navigate where children can feel very overwhelmed. They can feel that they don't have the support. They don't belong. They don't have their individuality seen. And while schools are trying their hardest, when you have a curriculum that measures a teacher's performance by academic outcomes, they too are anxious and overwhelmed and not enjoying. And what children need, we know most of all, is people around them who are really pleased to see them.
Speaker 3So they feel liked and likeable. Yes, because I often say children don't wake up in the morning and think, oh my goodness me, what a wonderful day. It's Wednesday and I've got double biology followed by math. No. They go to school because it's. Because it's about the connections and the friendships that they have. That's what gets them into school and keeps them in school. But obviously for a whole group of young people that are becoming more and more digitally dependent.
Speaker 2Well, it's that and it's also that a lot of parents are fearful to take them out into the world or moreover to let them be out in the world. And I think one of the things that's really difficult for children is that when you're a teenager, you're between being a child and an adult. And you want to know that you've got the skills to navigate the world and that you've got the confidence. And I don't think they're out in the world sufficiently together collectively making their own fun and mischief, learning from their own mistakes to feel that they can do that. And it's really interesting. It's significant that children growing up on farms have been shown to have an extraordinary resilience. And the countryside generally people perceive as safer. But the children. The children that we work with growing up in cities, some of them have hardly set foot from, you know, a distance of five miles from school and home. So I've worked with children in Bristol who don't know that Bristol has docks and it has a river, you know, and they live five miles away from that. So their lives are shrinking and they're shrinking into this digital attachment, which, of course, a lot of us as adults aren't being able to monitor or understand or converse about, or communicate, help digest it with them. So they're very, very vulnerable.
Speaker 3Yeah. Do you think it's sort of one feeds into the other? So as parents, we become anxious about the world and therefore we don't. We want to keep them closer. And by doing that, our children then don't expand their horizons. And then, I mean, I don't want to get in. I know people do this, but I don't want to get too caught into that nostalgic. But I'm 56. I remember very vividly we'd get on our bicycles, we'd go and play in fields, we'd climb trees. We'd make dens, but I feel like like as parents whether rightly or wrongly our perception is the world has become a much more dangerous place and so we don't our children don't have opportunities to take risks and i think it's
Speaker 2really important that you say you know our anxiety transfers to them so it doesn't just transfer in terms of the boundaries and the rules and what you can and can't do it transfers in terms of the messaging and the confidence that if you're a confident parent and you're confident in having letting your children free range a bit yeah those children don't carry that anxiety within them but so interesting watching the patterning between parents and children and of course if we can do it together with them go out and have family explorations expeditions adventures then that's great but they also need it with their peers and and that bit of the brain that social brain is is the most active when you're at that age isn't it yeah so actually if that's not fed with the social confidence so i think children we work with are growing that but the exciting thing is they literally it's if you imagine they were sort of remapping the brain in five immersive days where you work with the whole child their sort of emotions their feelings their thoughts their thinking their physicality they actually have grow a new version of who they can be and transfer that then back to school they don't lose it a lot of people say well is it like a wonderful holiday but no you're actually giving them a new narrative i think yeah
Speaker 3because it is it is a it's a muscle within the brain and if they get an opportunity to exercise it then of course it's just going to become it's going to become stronger
Speaker 2absolutely and it's going to frame a vision of the future because i think because we're also involved in the charities all the farms are run on a really conscious regenerative farming model and we want children to know where their food comes from and the need to have guardianship of the land and i think they're then embedded in a positive optimistic story and when i think about how what we hear on a daily basis is this incredible hype around really tragic news and it gets regurgitated and it's like a carcass that people come and pick off you know like vultures and that means that i mean i grew up before television and you know it was immense freedom not to have to know about these worldly horrific you could we would talk about them but not to be you know faced with all the imagery and everything of what's going on out there and the despair yeah and sense you can't do anything about it which is the worst bit of all
Speaker 3yeah and there is as much fabulous news but of course it just doesn't make the headlines because it's not something that's newsworthy or that people click on in the same way no and
Speaker 2i think we've been we've unconsciously drifted in that direction where what you know we become more curious about these stories that are very carefully crafted to to hone our interest but actually that's not it's not good for children it's not good for adults because if you don't feel you you can make a difference then you don't have a sense of purpose and of well-being and it's not good for children it's not good for adults and i'm such a believer that children have to feel they can make a difference even if it is that i carried someone shopping or i when they go home i made the meal and shared it with my family or you know actually i stopped to listen to my little sister when she was crying on the stairs i didn't just barge past my room so it's those little bits of jigsaw fill the canopy of who they
Speaker 3are yeah and it's that sense it's building that sense of agency isn't it i have a sense of agency i have the ability to make a choice whether that choice gets me to my end result is a whole different ball game but i get to choose yes i get to choose how i show up i get to choose what i will accept in my mind that i'll perpetuate in thinking and that sense of
Speaker 2agency it's interesting you bring it up because i think that's what's gone out of the curriculum when i was teaching in the 70s it was very very much creative thinking it was how to inspire children um it was about letting there be some challenge and i think that's what's going to happen in the future teamwork learning and that's gone out and the hardest thing is for them to feel ownership and satisfaction and that growth of that muscle as you describe it you know which is the i can do rather than i can't do and i will rather than i won't exactly yeah definitely so i'm going to
Speaker 3park because i could i could go into a long conversation around schools and whether they're fit for purpose but i don't it's not about trying to detract no absolutely teachers are doing working within the framework that they're being that they need to work within but i don't necessarily believe that school is the output of school is fundamentally fit for purpose in terms of young people what today in society yes
Speaker 2and i think there are some brilliant teachers and when they bring the relationship in when they make the young people feel that they're interested in them that they are individuals that they are they have if they bring some fun into their lives they are the most significant adults you know there's evidence that you only need one person who's got your back and that will change a lot massively
Speaker 3miss wrenchell my math teacher i will always forever remember i chose math a level because of her i think as humans we are innately social beings yes you know we see we a baby is birthed and they act that baby is looking eye contact actively seeking that out and i think with digital world that we're living in we've sort of lost that going back to the comment that you made about you know taking risks and those that are living in the countryside and specifically when we're looking within the farming context that would imagine living in a farming context you are forever taking risks risks with the animals risks with every aspect of the decisions that you're making yes is that what you work on within the farms in terms of beginning of course it's about connection but is it about this expansion of their experiences yes
Speaker 2it's about building self-confidence and that happens if you build the framework of belonging and of course it's about the connection of the family and of course it's about the care and they feel liked and likable and then it within that if you build the challenge in which is that farming as you say is challenging you know they've never milked a cow they've never moved a flock of sheep they've never gone in and herded cattle or cleaned a pig pen which stinks or you know or mucked out the chickens um or cooked a meal for others or grown vegetables so the challenge is the new and different but it's also that to step outside your comfort zone is so important isn't it if you're going to go for a job interview it's going to be scary if you're going to show up to work and not know what you're being asked to do to start with whether it's working in a pub or as an astronaut you know it's it's facing your fears and what we do we build around that this and it's so easy because parents and other teachers and youth workers can do this we do we start every morning after they've fed the animals and cooked breakfast and shared it around a table and we do check-in so they say how they're feeling out of 10 so they're showing up authentically and sharing that with people who they would normally just go i'm fine english is so bad i'm fine means nothing and then they do shout outs which is where they congratulate each other on something they've noticed so it might be i never knew you were so brave or i never knew you had this kindness in you or actually you're really interesting to talk to or actually and they might these are very blunt you know they'll say actually at school i thought you were really dull but you're not and so you know they're building up this new version and i've heard children say you know i'm chasing the positives because they're motivated to know what that feedback loop is nourishment it's that you know they'll go searching for it which is a wonderful thing rather than give up
Speaker 3yeah and i love the way that you when you're explaining what the mechanics of how you use the farm itself in terms of supporting young people it feels like from what you said that the foundational piece is the connection piece you can't begin to build the confidence and the resilience and the out of the comfort zone without the is that what you're saying is the connection i think
Speaker 2it's i think what i learned very early on with this was that you have to be with the whole child so there's a lot of challenges that we throw the way of children without making them feel emotionally safe and psychologically safe first so they have to feel that the support of the adults and the peer group is there and and then they've also got to be able to communicate their fears or their difficulties without that being shut down or sanctioned and so often at school and at home children will fear failing and therefore they'll kick off and make a big storm around it which is actually a smoke screen for saying actually i'm feeling rubbish today and i don't think i want to go to school because i know i'm going to fail my maths test or i'm going to um have to face that group of kids on the way into school and i or for girls particularly around self-image i don't feel i look good today so i'm not going so you create that foundation of belonging and safety and the capacity to share and communicate authentically and then within that the sense of purpose sense of risk the building confidence that's something they've always wanted to do and they've always wanted to do it and they've already got a platform they've got foundations yeah so
Speaker 3they can't and i think that's a really important piece for us to all stress because even if parents are listening to this and And they've got a child that they're trying to build up their confidence, maybe their school refusing that actually it's that connection piece first. Yes. That helps them. They can leverage that. Yes. That's a springboard platform that they can then work from. But they have to have that piece first. And if parents work
Speaker 2positively with the well, you know, the goodwill that is there in schools and they help the narrative that this is a place where you'll be looked after. That really helps. So there is nearly always somebody in a school who will look out for that child. And if it's you know, if they're not going to school, they have school attendance people. They have lots of pastoral staff. They have wonderful people who sometimes it's just the parents linking the child to that person. Because what we do is send them forth. Yeah. And then we're surprised they never turned up at school that they actually they you turned back and spent the day in a cafe or went to a friend. So or even the internal truancy, the hidden loo, you know, one of the girls I was interviewing for our podcast series Shift Happens. She's so clear talking about I didn't I was hiding the loos because I was so terrified and anxious and having panic attacks about not being able to manage the classroom. But the behavior would have been seen as bad behavior because she couldn't articulate that until she came to Jamie's farm. And then we could help. That conversation with the teachers and then the other teachers in the school to understand that this was a child who really withdrew when she was struggling, where some others might start crashing and bashing. And it's the counter side of the same message. I'm not managing.
Speaker 3Yeah. And yet we so often very few children, I believe, ever present almost like the stereotypical way we might expect a child to say, actually, I'm feeling somewhat overwhelmed by this. Yeah. Please help me. Yeah. They're probably in a very, very tiny minority. Most will avoid will be destructive or they will do something that to all intents and purposes to the adult looks like disruptive, disrespectful, disobedient behavior, challenging behavior and create this narrative within us that we now need to deal with that punitively. Whereas actually what they're there is some vulnerable, young, soft, squidgy, young child within there that is simply saying. Help. Yeah. And it's I've
Speaker 2worked with so many children that could have deemed unlikable by even their parents, the adults around them, because the behavior is very unlikable. But beneath that, there's, you know, there's that sense that they they really don't believe they're going to be getting back from the world. You know, what's the point in trying because I'm going to fail. And so I think it's really interesting that you. Have to get beyond that and get alongside, I would say, start where the child is like, I can see you're really bothered by this or this is really upsetting or tell you're just inviting them to say this clearly doesn't work for you. So help me understand maybe we can move forward together. And the way we that's what we're working on with a lot of teachers and other people is that when it's a we. It's a relational approach. It's like I'm on your side. And often if a child tries to get in a big argument with me, I'll just step aside and go, hang on a minute. I think we're not helping each other right now. I can feel like I'm getting agitated, too. I'm going to I'm going to take a breath and come back in a minute because I want to be on your side, not against you. It's so compelling, isn't it? I love that. The tug of war. And yet someone drops the rope. There isn't a tug of war to have.
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Speaker 3It's almost slightly counterintuitive, but some young people, it's almost if they believe that they're unlovable or unworthy or not good enough. It's almost that push against you is almost like, see, there you go. You've just demonstrated I'm unlovable. Yes, yes, yes. And it seems like. It seems like an odd thing to do because it's somewhat self-destructive, but.
Speaker 2And it's so lovely when they get that confidence to be able to share much more honestly what's going on. They often will say that to me. You know, I didn't try because there seemed no point. What was, you know, and it's getting beyond that helpless and hopeless part of them. And I think that's why in families, just even in the smallest ways involving children in the day to day running of a household. It actually, yes, they they'll grumble and grunt, you know, when you ask them to load the dishwasher or or do the washing up or lay the table or. But they're taking part. They're not opting out. And and then you have a feedback loop, which is thank you. That really made a difference. I was exhausted day after work or whatever. So you can make them feel that actually they they made a difference to you as an adult.
Speaker 3Yeah. And it's that collaborative approach, isn't it? Which is which is all. Yeah. The kind of that framework with the farms and how you go about instilling that.
Speaker 2They come and they're welcomed by people who are really genuinely pleased to see them. And then they're working alongside adults. So they're getting this incredible role modelling. And as my son, Jamie, always said, he said, what you need to do is just graft, get in there and break sweat with them, you know, so he'll be doing really big physical jobs with them in the early days, particularly. And there's that sense of real graft and physical connection and commitment because so many children don't have a physical existence now. You know, that that real sense of oomph that you get sometimes when you put your back into something. So log chopping is one of their most favourite activities. They love log chopping because it takes 100 percent commitment and energy to smash that log. And we set it up so it's quite safe. Actually, it's an immensely simple, defined, but effective task. And I think that's what's missing for lots of them.
Speaker 3Yeah. And they see there's the physicality to it, but there's actually a very obvious output. Oh, my goodness me, the log stack is getting.
Speaker 2Yes. And on the farms, we are we have biomass boilers. We really help them see, right, you help chop the logs, which are going to give you the hot shower tonight. So there's a real consequence that weaves through. Like a thread rather than it just being snipped off at like you did the log chopping. Yeah, that's it. So what? Yeah. Next task. Yes.
Speaker 3Yeah. That's that's so powerful. And I want to talk about how the kind of the mental state and the thinking that comes with some of these young people when they arrive at the farm. Do you get the sort of like, you know, I've been gone then
Speaker 2you get them literally slouching because the changes. They they look a foot taller. They don't make eye contact. Usually there's a lot of shrugging of shoulders and grunting. But you see this sort of curiosity, which is natural in children and people think it's disappeared. It never disappears. And you just see this little bit of curiosity, like they start laughing when they see the piglets together or we walk them around the farm and they might play a game on the way around, you know, or you get the bravest to touch the electric fence. It's only going to give them a minor. It's not going to do them any harm, but it's like, oh, my God, you know, it's I did it. Yeah. And so you get them literally engaged. And and I think the fact that they go around together, the first tour of the farm, they're all together. So there's safety in numbers. And then from day two, they're working in small groups and they also get some individual time. So those children who really withdrawn, you know, you said, what are they like when they arrive? Well, some of those children do not speak. To each other or anyone. We've had a lot of children like that. And we had one teacher the week before Easter holidays. Those kids were all singing and dancing in the yard. They've given themselves one of their favourite Adele songs. And he said to me, I've never heard these children speak at school, Tish. He said, we've brought this group because they've they're really withdrawn. We're really worried about their mental health. Their heads on desks or not turning up. Yeah. And there they were lit up together. But he said the tragedy is most of these children will go home and they probably won't leave their bedrooms other than to go to the bathroom. He said they'll eat in their rooms. They'll be on their phones eight hours a day. They'll sleep for half of the daytime. And so it's helping other agencies and parents and people provide that. And then the other ones who bravado, you know, the big I am. And you think you're an arrogant. And actually you have to go, no, no, no, this is, a defense this is a this is the mask this child wears so let's see what's behind it and often there's someone really sensitive and caring and they are being given the opportunity that they don't have to do that bravado all the time you do get children who you know are very buzzy you know the energy is everywhere and they arrive tanked up on sweets and fizzy drinks and of course we then say no sweets you know we have a very healthy diet with them and they know they're signing up to put their phones away for a week oh i hadn't realized the phones go away phones go away and they know this before they get on that bus the phones are going to be handed in before they arrive at the farm and they'll get them the day they get back on that bus and i have hardly met a child who hasn't said do you know that was really great it was a relief some say it's like managing a full-time job managing yeah my phone or it's it's filling them with anxiety it's you know a lot of them talk about you know without my phone i i actually made friends with people um it's so much it stops them doing as well as what it actually does that might be negative it's the interference of a child being present and and they love that and they say interestingly that they really would like the adults in their life to set that boundary because let's face it most adults are fairly undisciplined about putting their phone away and they don't know what's going on and they don't know what's putting them away and getting a night's sleep which i know you talk about sleep it's so important yeah so they want the adults to say okay phone's away at nine o'clock at night or you know right we're going to have a meal we're putting our phones in that basket we're not going to have phones at the table and they
Speaker 3really welcome that i think as parents you know regardless of the bravado and the tantrum and you've ruined my life and they genuinely value that and i hear that so often it's like oh my god i'm not going to have a meal i'm not going to have a meal i'm not going to in so many contexts when children are asked to relinquish their phones yes the palpable relief that they have and particularly i think when they're in a collective group because they've lost that pressure of in lots of ways they're not worried about the notifications because everyone else around them is in the same boat and they're also not not yes going to be responding it's scary
Speaker 2at first i'm not keeping up with my snapchat you know and who the people are going to think what's what's happened to me but the people who really matter in their lives they will have said oh i'm going to a farm for a week and i'm not going to have a meal i'm not going to have a meal i'm not allowed a phone and and so and the families know that and the the ones who really can't cope tragically it's usually the ones who've got are worrying about family a lot of children are carers yeah and they need the reassurance that if they're not doing the care someone else will be there and that maybe whoever they're caring for will learn to widen that network of care so that they won't be so dependent it's that experience isn't it that we all have to have that other people can survive without us yes and
Speaker 3that you know and i think for young children is that as you say so rightly so many children are young carers it's not that they've learned you know quite often with adults it's about learning in ourselves to reframe that we're not indispensable yes but for young children they've had they have no evidence that they're indispensable because they're the only ones that are able to do
Speaker 2it and that's so important that they just have the evidence that they get home and 95 times out of 100 it's actually been fine yeah and so i really think children are so plastic the brain is rewiring so profoundly and quickly that i love working with teenagers and children compared with when i was a psychotherapist did a lot of work with adults because they do change and they are looking for growth and i think that desire to be a better to find your better self is so active in a child it's so near the surface even if it's being covered by a child it's so active in a child it's so near the surface even if it's being covered and it's having that faith and as adults not confirming these negative narratives that's the other thing i feel is the language that we use around children it can be very damaging
Speaker 3yes yeah and it's scratching the surface to really get to the root rather than looking at that what that what they're presenting on the outside is simply a bit of a lens to what to the trouble yeah that they're feeling within yes so don't respond to the jarring and i know that that's often will trigger all sorts within us yes how dare you speak to me like that i've sacrificed everything yes all of these things but actually there there is a vulnerable young person underneath
Speaker 2all of that absolutely and when we meet a young person with antagonism of course they mirror it come back with it um and i think it's really difficult as you say as an adult when you're tired or stressed to always be patient enough to be the bigger person but then if it doesn't go well we can always come back for a second bite and go do you know what hands up i really didn't manage that well or i'm really sorry i was rude to you and what so many children say to me is that adults in their life ask for respect but they don't give
Speaker 3it yeah yes exactly and i think that is such a big thing for them and and respect to them is not about letting them do what they want but it's about the way that we communicate with them it's about acknowledging their feelings and their desires even if we're saying no yes it could be done in a respectful and it's
Speaker 2not laboring it you know i've got nine grandchildren and they're and they're from three to seventeen and what i absolutely love is that actually they still are distractible almost whatever age they are if you can offer something really positive and whizzy um you know you can you can avoid stepping into that bear trap of the big fight that's often going on and i think that it doesn't mean you should avoid all conflict because conflict's healthy to a degree anger is healthy it's an emotion they've got to express but the younger ones you can see how easily they kick off because they live in the here and now children and it's like if you can sort of shift the train tracks just move the track slightly especially with the younger ones i think it can be so effective but i see how adults sometimes pile in there and you think you're really on a hiding to nothing your day is going to get worse it's only
Speaker 3gonna go and also it's that it's you you sort of talked about about laboring the point if you if there's a point to be made and it's pertinent yeah short sharp succinct move on less is more less is 100 less is more otherwise you will get those eyes and it will literally go in one ear and out the other absolutely and
Speaker 2they will you know the other thing that's so painful i see you know i can see my daughter with teenage sons going through it that they have to separate yes and so whereas yes they were cuddly and close and lovely and warm and funny and delightful and then they can be moody and not want to go out with you and not want to do those things as a family but they have to become an adult and know that they can live without you so i think particularly those teenage years where they yo-yo between that dependency and rejection of the adults is very painful as a parent and you've got to survive it well i remember
Speaker 3someone framing it to me in a particular way that helped me manage it was that you're the the longest relationship we'll have with our children will be with them as adults not as children that's true so actually if we can get our heads around yes it's actually yes there's certain aspects of parenting that we need to do when they're younger in terms of keeping them safe and boundaries but actually it's recognizing that the dynamic has to shift from i have the power you're the child to actually where we're having an adult to adult conversation within the parameters of our home and our values yes but it's still no i think
Speaker 2my i have three children and their two are in their 40s and one's late 30s and i absolutely love that we have loads of time together as a big family and tribe and all the grandchildren they all live near me but i feel so glad that we've maintained the relationship i think it's really easy for parents to sign off with teenagers and think well they don't want me so um i'm dispensable now and i actually think they need you almost more than ever to be there when they come home even if it is just grumble about their day or just to be willing to listen it's so valuable and so easily we just let them we think well i'm redundant but you're never redundant
Speaker 3i sense tish that you have a higher purpose and plan and vision what is the vision for the
Speaker 2well i think i am trying to translate our what the the very most simple format of our methodology to other adults would be their parents or teachers or caregivers or youth workers because as a teacher you have to have the sense of complicating if you like some of the things that were going on with young people and as a teacher to be sort of outcome driven and the great privilege of living and working alongside these children having listens to thousands of children is to draw it back to what the the essentials are and i would say it is this sense of belonging and safety and then alongside that the agency the sense of purpose and to have safe, reflective spaces. But families can do check-ins, shout-outs, listening to people. Listening, I would say, is the key thing. So I'm trying really hard to sort of share that now beyond the ripples of Jamie's Farm. We want it to go out into the world because the young people were spending a fortune on in youth detention centres and things. But some of these things that are so key to their change in the right direction are not there. So my passion is to share as much hope and optimism about teenagers in a digestible, transferable form.
Speaker 3I love it, especially at a time where there's a lot of sort of negative commentary coming around. Teens today, they're disrespectful and they need a firm hand. Let's bring back it. I mean, in some extremes, almost about national service, aren't they?
Speaker 2Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, this thing of the really. There are these tragedies with knife crime and things, but it isn't everywhere. They were noisy. They were annoying. Some of them were drunk, but they were such fun and they were so engaging. And I think that it's like if we look down the lens to find problems, you will find them. And if you look down the lens to find connection and that happiness. And shared happiness. You know, we have so much fun with children on the farms. And I love seeing them go from, you know, looking stooped and withdrawn to being open faced. And my greatest pleasure is when I hear teachers back at school. I was interviewing some interns. Some had never been to Jamie's farm, but schools send groups of children saying, I know which children have been because they look different when they come back. And it's those teachers who are with them. Saying, I don't recognise this child. And that is what is belief in your own children and the children you work with, that the version you're getting, if it's not working right now, can change and will change given the right ingredients.
Speaker 3And that's wonderful to see as well, because I think sometimes parents don't make those first steps because they can't see how a shift in one area can be transferable to others. But it is so, you're seeing it time and time again. With the thousands and thousands of young people that you're working with.
Speaker 2But I think you have to think of the whole child every time. You know, is it that they're hangry? They either haven't slept, they haven't eaten. Is it that they've been filling themselves with Haribo's and fizzy drinks? You know, start from there and then you work through the different aspects and layers of a child. But it's really easy to put it all down to that emotional communication that can just go badly wrong, can't it? You know, react and reactive.
Speaker 3Yeah, whereas if you take that 360 degree lens of the whole child. How can parents who are listening, teachers, childminders, educators of all sorts, we are going to be sharing the link. So do not worry, we'll be sharing the link because obviously it is a charity and you're reliant on fundraising.
Speaker 2We are indeed. For people who are working and parenting children, I would say us managing to look after our well-being enough. So that we can show up for these children as a positive person who's pleased to see them is absolutely key. And listening, showing an interest in their individuality, not making assumptions about them and encouraging them to share their reality. But around that, to keep that kind of web and wharf of ways of connecting and ways of playing, working, living together in a way that gives them a sense. Of meaning, you know, and give them opportunities, let them out of your sight or get them enrolled in things that give them enrichment opportunities. And I know it costs money often, but there are also lots of social projects where children can volunteer and they can come out of that, particularly teenagers feeling I did something today that was worthwhile. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3And that fosters that sense of belonging even more. Absolutely. Oh, Tish, thank you so much. Oh, it's so good. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your thoughtfulness and and the mission that you are on, because it is so powerful. And so the ripple effect on these young people, because, of course, you're impacting those young people while they're on the farm. But the impact that those young people have on the young people that they then interact with and the impact on their families and within their classrooms. Yes. Really just provides that whole movement.
Speaker 2It sends the ripples as far and wide and turn the tide of the negativity. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4We're Harmony Bank, where better happens together.
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