From Global Standards to Local Safeguarding Practice

[Music] Welcome to Score Podcast. In this series we are constructing what safeguarding means in the world of sports. We will break down concepts, question assumptions, and unpack the biases and beliefs that shape the conversation around safeguarding. We will dig deep right to the core of meaning and understanding. And we are your host, Alexandra Volkov and Anata Tadia. And behind the scenes looking after the audio is Ryan Lovix. Let's be construct safeguarding together. [Music] Today we welcome Ani, Kroni, and Maria Papaivstathu to discuss how international standards and policies are applied and implemented locally. We will unpack who should be responsible for safeguarding, why policies often fail to reach clubs and coaches, and how cultural differences, power dynamics, and communication breakdowns affect practice. Hi Ani and Maria, we are very happy to have you with us today. Hello and thank you for the wonderful invite. Hello. Thank you for the invite. Dr. Styliani Ani Kroni is a professor of sports psychology and sports coaching. Her work focuses on elite coach stress and wellbeing, athlete to coach transitions, and safeguarding and safe sport in culturally diverse contexts, with particular attention to the Mediterranean settings. She has over 25 years of experience as a mental performance consultant, working with athletes, teams, coaches, and parents across countries and levels of sport. Ani is also a long-standing advocate for women in sport and has held leadership roles in international sport organizations. Dr. Maria Papaivstathu is a research specialized in child safeguarding and welfare in sport. Maria has worked in education, research, and policy across Cyprus, the UK, and Europe. Maria has contributed to the Council of Europe projects on safe sport, sexual abuse, and gender-based violence, and her work focuses on preventing violence against children in sport and educational settings. Maria is a member of the Council of Europe, pool of international experts on safe sport, and co-founder of SafeSport, which is a non-governmental and non-for-profit organization based in Cyprus. Ani, Maria, to get to know you better, can you please share with us how you got involved with safe guarding in sports? I did not start in safe guarding. I started in sports psychology and coaching, actually coaching, and then sports psychology where I did my graduate studies. And safe guarding emerged for me during certain patterns that I kept happening across different settings, like through my work as a mental performance consultant, and also teaching in academic departments, I kept observing certain dynamics like blurred boundaries between coached-on-athletes or professors and students, even also between peers. Some power symmetries that were very normal, and some very gender-indexpectations around silence, tolerance, and gratitude that would ten out of ten times would put down women. So many of these behaviors that I was observing, they were not illegal, but also they wouldn't necessarily trigger any formal complaints. They were not seen as harmful or any of the language the words that we use today. The turning point for me was in 2004, pre-Olympic congress, when I met Gari Fasting, she was presenting research done in Czech Republic at that point. We started the collaboration, and it's when I collected my first data set on women's sexual harassment experience in sport in Greece in 2005. And that work kind of helped me see what I was observing locally, also in paper, but also it was a springboard for where I am today, and what I've been doing. So, safeguarding is something that came up later, it gave language and structure to things that were happening. That's how I think I got there. That's an interesting transition in Maria. So my passion and my work for safeguarding in sport began in 2008. That's when I joined my master of arts in child welfare and production in sport at Brunel University in London under the supervision of the late professor, Celia and Brackenreach. By background, this in education, as you probably know, so my decision to pursue this degree was mainly shaped by my experience as a primary physical education teacher. In particular, I wanted, and I was looking for more ways, I wanted to explore ways to make children's engagement in sport, even more enjoyable, safe and positive. On a personal level, I have been very fortunate through my participation in sport and in ballet, more, most particularly, to work with excellent teachers who showed genuine care and attention. Not only to me as a dance and an athlete, but also to me as an individual in a holistic sense. My participation in the master's program together with inspiration, of course, and support of Celia, to whom I am deeply grateful and to whom I owe much of my passion and motivation to well in child welfare and safe gotten in sport marked the beginning of my journey. It was a journey that encouraged me to think about and view sport and its related fields, such as dance from a different and more critical point of view. So my first research work with Celia and Brackenreach, it wasn't the experiences of ballet dancers who were educated in the UK. Later during my PhD studies at the University of East Anglia, I was offered the opportunity to explore the social construction of childhood, as well as the social construction of sports. I also had the chance to see how social policy at both global and local levels interact with what is often referred to as development in sport, again, from a critical point of view. Since then, I continued to work on safeguarding in sport at various levels. Alongside with excellent researchers, such as Amicron, for example, who I thank very much for her idea to join this podcast today. And of course, I would like to thank you for this excellent opportunity to share our work. And I look very much forward to this conversation today. And we have a very happy to have you with us. Thank you so much again for joining. In our previous episodes, we've talked a lot about existing international policy and legal frameworks developed by global stakeholders, as well as we touched upon various initiatives happening around the world. But today, we would like to take this step a little bit further and using your experience and your knowledge, we want to unpack and to look at how all of this actually takes shape on the ground, because you worked as the PE teacher, you worked as a coach. So I think we'll start with Maria. How do you define air quotes local implementation when it comes to safeguarding practices? When we refer to local implementation, we mean the ways in which a particular topic, such as safeguarding in sport in this case, is put in practice within a specific setting, taking into account the local specificities, the local sensitivities and characteristics of a particular context. So, for example, in sport, the need to implement safeguarding measures may come from international directive. But the challenge is to see what is the responsibility of local sport stakeholders in the sense that they will have to review, they will have to adapt and implement this directive at the practitioner level in ways that actually make sense locally and have a positive impact in practice. Any, what it is for you, I'm very close to what Maria said, I would say the space, end time, we're international principles, meet with national commitments of everyday practices, because it's a whole chain of actors involved in this local thing that we talk about. We have national governments, we have governing bodies, clubs, educators, coaches, very often parents, they all have a very central role in shaping this everyday sport environment and practices. So, what comes from the international space into the national space comes down into every day practice that's the local implementation, the local practice. It is very clear, but it depends for me local implementation, for example, depends on how parents understand interpersonal violence, safeguarding. Appearance are the main stakeholder and decision maker when it comes to children youth, if we think about that. So, they're part of it, coaches, managing councils of different clubs, you know, they're part of a system in that system sometimes. is very challenging and so local implementation is not just a technical and administrative issue. It's really important with Maria also already mentioned whether safe weather and how safeguarding make sense in everyday people's realities of that local space, how authority is understood, how harm is recognized whether speaking up feels possible or it's risky in some systems for the people. I would like to stay on this and I'm thinking about a potential hierarchy of how the safeguarding practices move from international level to national level or local level and if so is there a responsible at a local level to implement these policies who leads this locally? It's a very good question. I will offer a general answer because I don't think there's a clear answer. I believe as to my experience it is different because international policies, I was like say is like they travel but when they reach a place it's always a question who's responsible for it? Who's responsible to do what? Is there the main sports stakeholder of the country? Probably that is where they arrive, how these are taken and used, are we sometimes do mere translations because that's not enough. We need translation and adaptation. So the question who's responsible, I don't know. It's always everywhere different and sometimes I feel in my experience that responsibility is like a game of ping pong. It's in the state or it goes to the clubs or goes to the federations and sometimes it's thrown on individuals but these individuals don't have the knowledge, don't have the time, don't have resources, capacity to actually do something and then at the very end I think very often thrown onto coaches. To this day we keep throwing things at the coach's table and how much the coaches can do at the end. We keep thinking they're the big risk but the very long time real literature shows that we have far more incidents involving peers than actually coaches but we've forgotten to take them off from the risk list and bring them on as partners. I don't have really an answer. It's different from place to place. So you mentioned coaches, you mentioned sports, national sports governing body, let it be national impact committee or national federation within specific sport and you mentioned coaches and peers. If we expand on this they call the map. Who else can be there on this map of responsible individuals? May I make a comment? Sure, Maria Goha. When we talk about social Marxers like safeguarding, like social welfare, it is the responsibility of the government actually starting from the top going towards the bottom levels. It is first and foremost the responsibility of the government, the responsibility of the state to find the ways to educate, to create awareness for people at practitioner at bottom levels to understand the portals of having certain measures in place. So it is the responsibility of the state to create the human capacity to seek for the correct sound, like research and study with the correct evidence to justify the steps that they need to be made for safeguarding in sport in this case to be actually implemented in practice. And then this should be an ongoing process, a very lively process, a very proactive process, a process that will be systematic because safeguarding is a social matter that is in flux and it is changing over time based on circumstances such as politics, changes of understandings around childhood and many other financial issues and I assume many other aspects. Is there a disconnect between what happens at the international level and what happens at the local level and if so, who is right? I'll answer as a continuation to what Maria started sharing. I think there is the disconnect is in the translation in the capacity. As Maria shared, I also agree that certain things like social matters like this need to start at the top, but let me also add that we have a trust issue between the top and the bottom. At least I can speak for some countries where we have research, where people expect for changes like this to start from higher end institutions, whether it's government, where is, as you said, the Olympic Committee or the sport confederation for the country or general secretary, whatever it would be called in next country, but also there tends to be some lack of trust from the people to those leaders, to those leading institutes and it's not for the persons, but it's to the institutions. So there for me we have the biggest gap where a lot of things kind of get lost. So they try to bring some change from the top, but from the bottom there is lack of trust to take it and work with it. So for me, that's where I'm saying there is a translation gap, how these are translated or the translator are also translated and adopted. There is capacity gap, capacity, meaning in some countries, the problems that they have in sport are in some ways perceived as far more fundamental. Like do we have a space for athletes to work out? Once we have the space for athletes to work out, they actually develop trained, do we have good coaches? Then we can talk about the behaviors, the harm, but they have some more fundamental issues to solve. So yeah, I think that's where the disconnect happens and it's not just from the international going to national, but going from national to local. For me, that's another element. Together, you both have 40 years of research you to combine in your experience, why this trust issue occurred, especially in a sports setting. You work at SP, teacher Maria, and you work as a coach, Annie, from your personal experience and you're from your research, can you dig into this, where this trust issue comes from? For me, the trust issue comes from a cultural characteristic. It's not about sport, it's about everything. I can speak about Greece or I can also speak about Norway, where there's no such trust issue since I live there for last 12 and a half years. I live in work there. There's no such trust issue. People do trust the government. But in Greece, there is no trust in the government or government offices and policies. We always expect that there will be a surprise. Somehow we're going to get slammed with something new, but it's not only about sport, it's about everything. Maria, you experience? May I agree with Annie? Of course, Cyprus and Dres are very similar in terms of the cultural understandings around how politics confection. There is unfortunately a lot of criticism towards politicians and government and parliament members. Therefore, this lack of trust is a result of the fact that people are not very satisfied with the way politics work inside Pruss in this case. Therefore, they cannot trust that politics can make their life better when it comes to this very sensitive matter, a topic which is safeguarding in sport. It's also the general understanding that people have about sport as a setting. Sport is a very positive environment. We don't want politics in sport because it might be the end of sport if we allow politics to get involved in this in the sense of having to implement broader social issues such as safeguarding in sport. Sometimes when there is a trust issue in general in local and governmental politicians, then it impacts sports. To deal with this disconnect where we see between international policies and standards and local practices, I think safeguarding can not be just transferred as a template and everybody gets to fill in their little things. It really has to be translated, adopted, co-build at the national level and then sometimes even at the local level because there can be some specificities, some details there. We talk sometimes about the global north and sometimes it's challenging when a lot of these policies have been developed in UK, in Netherlands, very different societies from some other very different cultures where they have professionalised systems and there's emphasis in compliance. compliance is not the same with safety in our cultures is very different. They also have resources they have funds in some of these countries we have limited next to no funds. In the past three years I've been in close collaboration with the Greek government and I'm part of this government committee that was established for safeguarding in sport. I do it voluntarily in my spare time. There are no resources. There is no funding to pay someone to help set up something. So we have to really understand what the local characteristics are. So in this translation of international to national people need to study their cultures first. Understand where the resistant comes from. If we understand who we are and where our resistances come from then we will find the way forward. Often we might have the perceptions that international policies or international frameworks are quite homogeneous. As you said sometimes they come as a best practice or a template to replicate but on the ground the reality is different. Building on what you only just said you mentioned that there are various points that can be a disconnection between international policy and local policy and you mentioned both translation issue, local capacity, budget, especially the trust issue that we stayed for quite a while on. How can international safeguarding policies be contextualized and implemented locally? What are the solutions? I think people want to be heard. They want to be offered opportunities to share their experiences. So we need to create the space for sport participants in this case to be heard. Therefore starting from bottom up this include is very essential. It is important to see how coaches affid and their families understand welfare and safeguarding in sport through their everyday experiences because while we know in theory and through policy paydors that abuse has certain definition. When you actually meet sport participants observe their everyday practices in sport you will actually realize that their priorities in terms of their welfare related and safeguarding related experiences are different. Emotional abuse might be an issue but it is explained in a more, how can I say in a way that makes you feel that actually for example coaches need to be trained on best practice towards children. They need to be trained towards developing the necessary skills to support pedagogically and psychologically the children because children actually ask for caring environments in sport. So yeah it is important to give the space, give the time to listen to sport practitioners, to listen to children, to listen to coaches, to gather their actual worries and then to use this in order to adapt what is coming from from the top levels in order to make it sound that it makes sense to them. So we need to engage sport participants at local levels more proactively. It is good to have global international definitions and standard terminology. However this has to be explored and used more flexibly. Words like violence and abuse have a different impact on people. So we need to offer opportunities for discussion in order to touch upon the actual needs of people. Policies need to be adapted to the cultural realities. In Cyprus the sense of community is more important at least it was until recently compared to individual responsibility. I might face emotional abuse by my coach but because it happens to everybody I receive it in a milder way. It doesn't mean that this is correct but the child that talks about emotional abuse in a normalized way has to be offered opportunities for critical examination of such behaviors. Same applies for a coach for example. So we need to adapt policies to cultural realities. This does not mean lowering standards but it does mean making them meaningful in a context and we need to build the practical tools and training that fit local capacities and resources. From my experience as a researcher as well as a practitioner I know and this is not an empirical view. It's also a result of evaluation studies. People are requesting professionals they want to be trained. They want to understand the meaning of child sexual abuse. They want to understand their barriers because they want to actually help children. They want to have good interactions with children and vice versa. It's very interesting you were speaking about definitions and standards and what do people understand by violence and abuse and here I have actually a couple of questions but I'll start with one. Do you believe if standard dies in terminology can help developing such practical tools Maria? It certainly creates the framework to start talking about how to create the best tools around safeguarding in sport. It's not about the definition itself. It's about creating the environment to those people who will affect it whose work will be and experiences will be affected by these definitions that place important role. So this is a definition but does it work for you? Sometimes the opportunity to give somebody the chance to share their experiences is therapeutic to them. It puts them in a position to challenge some thoughts, to rethink of better ways of performing in their everyday lives. These are my views. I don't know if I need one to add something to that. Engaging people, the word I would use is co-designing some interventions, initiatives, whatever practices is important because when we bring people in, they engage, they feel ownership. So then we increase the chances that certain things will change when we have them as part of it. When we impose changes, when we impose practices, it's more difficult for people to feel ownership and be part of it. And about the language, well the language is key, the language we use. We need to be a little bit careful with the terminology like I can give you an example. Some words don't translate in all languages. In Greek language, there's no word for safeguarding. In some other languages too. So we have to go about and around it to give the term. Standardizing the language is also a challenge like it is standardizing responses or standardizing practices. We can have certain standards, minimum standards and allow the cultures, the countries to build what can work for them. Let me give you an example. I will go to something that Maria has also written about it. Touch. In the south, we're very relational. We're very close in proximity. And that is how we form relationships, how we get things done, this closeness in the north is very different or central Europe. Touching is a big part of how we form these relationships in the south. Hagen kissing is normal in the south. It is not in the north. Some years ago, especially in 2021, when I spoke up after Sofia Becabello talked about her abuse, I was accused by some friends, national coaches that I'm trying to destroy Greek sport. That was never my intention. However, I took it very seriously because I realized I had to change certain things, how I approached them, how I shared with the language I used, and then I also have to get a little more knowledgeable about our culture and to try to understand the Greek culture from inside to see what really brings, as I said earlier, the resistance, how people function. So, yes, I don't believe that terminology or practice can be standardized across this world. There can be some minimum standard set and then the different countries need to work with those and build on those. And the idea is that safeguarding should be implemented with the local practitioners not on them. The word "weeth" is a very important one. Things happen with us. things do not happen on us. So how can it be made with them? We'll go back to what Maria said. There has to be some kind of a feedback loop where we can get feedback from the people where they can come on board when a decision is being made. When practices are being decided, of course that's impossible that you're gonna bring like in Greece, 10 million people on board. But you can bring representatives from parents, from coaches, from physicians, from teachers, from medical staff, from all those around the world of sport. We need some representatives and we need also opportunities for the simple people, those 10 million that there is somewhere a report system where they can share their experiences where somebody will read and listen to them. I think these experiences are crucial therefore we need to find the ways to be aware of them and collect these experiences in order to be able to define the policies, the procedures and everything that comes to achieve safeguarding in sport. Well, we don't like it in Mediterranean context because we didn't learn to live with them. Since the membership of Cyprus as well as Greece in the European Union, we now have some responsibilities at political level. We have all these directives that we need to follow and I don't think that this is bad. This is very good. Therefore, when we design policy to implement for safeguarding in sport, some aspects of this policy need to be designed in order to systematically and in an organized manner to collect these experiences from participants. So we need to have regular consultations with coaches and athletes to actually see if policy works for them, if all these meanings are out of safeguarding makes sense to them. There is a reason why we are requesting reporting mechanisms for safeguarding in sport through clubs and federations. We need to collect this data to see how safeguarding in sport progresses. And we also need to have the aspect of evaluation and audits in policy in order to keep this policy as proactive as possible. So through these three ways, we will make sure we have the experiences of all participants in place. Which will then inform any potential change at the patient of certain policy for safeguarding in sport. You were talking about this potential channels of communication. Can you expand a little bit on this? How do you see how these channels can be structured? They must be structured at policy making level in for start. So therefore, we need a very good design of policy developments, one which will also include the aspect of data collection from those who are experiencing sport in their everyday practices. So we need reporting mechanisms to monitor things that are happening in sport and core practices abuses. We need to offer consultation opportunities to coaches and children, administration, the staff, policy makers, researchers, everybody to tell us what needs to be changed. And of course, this policy needs to be evaluated in a systematic way, annually. Because actually from my experience, this is how I see things progressing at least in this particular context in Cyprus. If you can give us a practical example to reconnect the theory that you were sharing to your experience. - From my experience in education as a teacher, I know that the Ministry of Education, for example, is actually implementing legislation by developing a certain policy, that is a national policy on sexuality education, which since 2011, we are moving slowly, but I know that the fact that there is training for teachers which is being evaluated annually shows that there is a continuation towards this effort that is made to implement legislation and to actually bring change. It's gonna be a long process, the policy makers, the people who are responsible to put in practice this effort, they challenged the tables, they challenged the criticism, they came from very conservative groups, they overcome this, they managed to overcome these barriers. And now we started to see that through systematic implementation and evaluation, we can see slowly, but positive changes. - Are there anything else that you would like to add on practical experience? - The practical experience from Greece is not a good example right now, especially on the topic of sexuality education, because it's something on paper, is it, it is there, but it struggles to really be a reality in everyday life. So I don't have a good example to offer right now. - Perhaps we can go look for examples from other industries, if you are aware of any other sector beyond sports that has interesting practices where we can learn from. A big cultural shift related to Greece, backing the days even when I was in school and elementary school, physical punishment was still happening. Physical punishment in school has ended, but that took a lot of years of change in what physical punishment does or doesn't do. A big change, also in the views of parents and families, so we got there, because in sport, we still have parents that believe that physical punishment with more exercise or when you're injured, it's still okay. It shows courage, it shows strength, resilience, great. However, at the same time, if we look at these, it is part of physical violence. So it will take some time to deconstruct the idea what commitment to sport means. That's for me the nicest, the best example I can give of how things take about three generations to be different. - Are you saying that it will take another three generations to reduce the rate of violence in sports, at least in Europe? - In some countries, yes, maybe four. You know, when I started all this work, I did not have a kid. I gave birth to my son in 2000, and I was saying that I'm doing all this work. So my son's experience would be a better one. Then eventually I started saying, so if I ever have a grandchild, their experience would be a better one. Now I'm at the level of great-great-grandchild. - That doesn't sound promising, we were, - No, no, no. - Look, changes happen, but it's very small steps. It's very small steps and we need to be patient and we need to keep pushing and we need to keep working. Change does not happen overnight. It's really important to know. And we need to find the way to approach the governments, how we're gonna translate things for them. Also, it happens that sometimes, you know, with governments, the language, the understand, has to do with budgets, resources. If they're gonna lose money, then maybe they will start changing a few things. But then we have this big risk that we're going in what we call now, safe washing. So kind of compliance, just bringing in some policies, bringing in some rules while actually not much is implemented in everyday reality. So I don't want to say that things are not gonna happen. Yes, they will, but they will take time. - I think I might make a note on what you mentioned about safe washing, 'cause this might deserve another full episode to understand really what's real impact and what's just communication for the sake of communication. But moving towards the end of this conversation, we would like to make a nice closure by asking you if there is anything else that you would like to add, that we didn't mention, that we didn't address, that you think it's very important for our listeners to know. As I said, I entered this space in 2004, and now it's 2026. A lot of things have happened in these years. I do believe that's international policies are necessary. They need to be there. They can be the ground, the foundation for safeguarding, but they cannot be the finished product. The finished product will come from the different countries. so it can be translated and adopted to their needs. So it will be endorsed, owned, respected, trusted, loved, so they can try to do something about. I think that's for me the most important part for today to remember that we can get there. It will take time. And like we say, it takes a village to raise a child. It will take a village to raise safe guarding in different countries. We will need different sectors to come in. Education in schools, health sector, finance, everybody needs to come in and give a hand so we can make change happen. I'm in general a very positive person. And I must say that I remain positive when it comes to discussions. I have regarding safe sporting, safe guarding in sport. Because I often go back to 2012 when I came in cycles from England to give a very small talk around sexual violence in sport at that time. And I cannot forget about it. It's almost traumatic to me nowadays because I felt the negativity around the room and the sense of denial that existed back there around abuse in sport. Nowadays it's different. It is different because I think, and this is where the international perspectives are put because from the Council of Europe there were some pressures for things to be done. And now, even if they like it or not, at political level, at least people accept that there is an issue and we have to do something about it. There seems to be a will for change. So there is a progress if we compare what was the general attitude in 2012 and what is the attitude today. There is a positive will. Of course, leadership is the A to Z thing for me. We need people who want to learn more about safe guarding. We need leaders with ethical standards in sport. And I feel this is when we will see more progress, but I agree with that need that it takes time. Thank you very much, ladies, for this interesting conversation. We hope it was useful for everyone, at least for us for sure here. And before we let you go, is there any book on article that you would recommend us and our listeners to check out if they want to learn more about how safe guarding policies can be implemented locally or about some national cases? For me, there are two really useful readings, but they're done. They're not about exactly what you suggest about implementation of policies or standards locally. The latest consensus statement from IOC the 2024 publication. I think is a good starting point for people to understand the spectrum of safe sport and safe guarding and also the element, the factor of culture and all that. Then a little bit similar, but has some differences is the European sports psychology federation's position statement of 2025. I think these are two really good readings. And then my suggestion for people, if they want to work on the local level is to first try to learn, find literature on national and local cultural characteristics. As I mentioned, understand who we are, how we give our best, where we resist. This is from a critical knowledge to start and see where can we go with safe guarding in our spaces. Maria? Firstly, for academic purposes, for someone who wants to dig into understanding abuse in sport, I would suggest one classical now book, the one that was written by Celia and Bracken reach on the sports to understand the theory behind sexual abuse in sport and to also look better at how policy is developed and the challenges that might be faced. I would also recommend Mike Hardill's effort to put a new theory about sexual abuse in sport, the book is entitled sexual abuse of voice in sports. And for academic purposes, I would also suggest the route village handbook of athlete welfare that was written by Mike Harding and Maryl in lung. I think it is a viable resource for someone to understand all the dimensions of safe guarding in sport. I personally found very inspirational the book, the autobiography of Shelton Kennedy when I started my trip on safe guarding my journey on safe guarding and tied with a title why I didn't say anything. It was a very touching book, which I found very inspirational. Lastly, for someone who wants to read more around policymaking, I would suggest looking at the fields of social work and law. There is a book that I found very useful when I was doing my studies. It was Nigel Bardon's safe guarding childhood, early intervention and surveillance in a late modern society. It equipped me with good knowledge and information around how social policy is made, who should involve the challenges and everything else. Thank you very much, Anne and Maria. It was really amazing to have this conversation with you today. And I think it's time for us to say how goodbyes. Thank you ladies, goodbye. Thank you. Goodbye, thank you. Thank you for listening. This show is produced by Score, Sport Think Tank. With a Switzerland-based association, we are dedicated to creating safe spaces for honest and meaningful conversations that positively impact the world of sport. Special thanks to the entire score team working behind the scenes, to our brilliant sound wizard, Ryan Lobbix, and to our wonderful graphic designer Natalia Plaza Sanchez. Be sure to check out our LinkedIn page for more information about this episode and also the work that we do. And we invite you to explore the other episodes as we continue this journey of deconstructing safe guarding in sport. [Music]