From Code to Consciousness: Rich Habets's Journey to Corporate Transformation

(indistinct) - Good morning, Rich. How are you today? - Hey, good morning, Raya. I'm good. Good to see you. - Yeah, good to see you here. And thank you for having me. - Well, of course, it's an absolute pleasure to have you here. And thank you for giving the disruptive leader podcast your time, where I'm pretty sure we're gonna have an amazing conversation where you can hopefully inspire the listeners with your wonderful story. And for everyone listening, meet Rich Havets. I hope I pronounced that correctly. - Yeah. - Rich is the founder of the Corporate Coaching Academy and seasoned transformation leader. And with that in mind, Rich, I just wanna start. Maybe you can share with us. Your journey started when I was researching with computer science and then it shifted to corporate consciousness. Why don't you walk us through that? - I, that, yeah, that's an interesting story. Yeah, originally I went to university at a study computer science. So officially I'm a software architect. That's what my, my diploma says, right, software architect. But it was only later in life then I'd find out that I just, I'm just really fascinated by how things work. Right, how things work together and cause an effect on all those things. And the past I was just very fascinated by how computers worked because this is 1999 when I graduated. And computers were just like unrecognizable but they're just really old stuff compared to what we have now. And I was just really fascinated how do you program these things? How can you have them? How can you write codes with a crazy amazing things on your screen like to have an illustration program or that was state of the art back then? And then I started doing that. I went to, I kept Gemini, started work with them. And they wanna be, to code, to coding because back then there was still, is you remember that year two KD problem? That you were working with? - No, I just came. They wanted me to work on that. And I said, no, I don't wanna just go into all code and adjust day fields. I didn't wanna do that. That wasn't, I've never been into repetitive work. I always wanted to explore. And so I said, no, I don't wanna do that. I don't wanna code, I want you to be imaginable solving because that's what interests me. And of course, when I, I kept Gemini has a imaginable solving department. It's called Gemini, back then it was called Gemini consulting. And they didn't wanna have me because I was too young. They were furious, they would speak to me. Most of them said, you're a two-man experience and we just need people above 50 who have seen it all and have a bright interest. And I said, look, every successful sports team, I still remember telling the guy the story. I said every successful sports team has a combination between young people, young talents, and older, more experienced people, right? And I said, because if you only have old people, then you're gonna lose because you're too slow. But if you only have young people in the sports team, you're gonna lose because you're too naive and you don't know how things work yet. So the best team is our combination between young and old. And I said, you're telling me that you only want old people, your team, right? How's it going with your creativity, how you go about thinking about the box? And he smiled at me, I still remember you just smiled at me and he said, you know what, that's exactly the attitude we like they're having. So they hired me. And it became a mental result. And did that for a long time. I was working with Sony Entertainment way before it was far. And they were looking to find ways to sell their content alike. And I did all kinds of great stuff, travel the world, develop great systems, work with great, amazing companies. I was still very arrogant back then because I thought I needed to know it all. Well, she's an interesting period. I just felt like my worth was based on what I knew. I'm sure many listeners can, or at least some of your listeners might identify with that too, that you're not really a person, just really somebody who knows something. And you think your value depends on that. But then I started really seeing, and this is so interesting. I started seeing like we give all these companies, these amazing solutions, great new processes. Fantastic ID infrastructure. And they didn't do anything with it. Or they did it and it failed. And I started to really look at it from a distance and I thought, why is it that we give them some beautiful work that strategies, if only they would implement this. They would, their profits would go through the roof or everything in the company would go better and they just didn't do it. They would cherry pick at maybe, why is it 10% of what we would come up with, they would do. So I started getting more and more interested in what is it that makes it that people are successful and companies are successful because we all know what to do to be successful. There was like billion business books, but we don't do it. So what is it? What is it about that? So my interest became more and more towards their human-dimension business. What is it that some humans, they pick something, they run with it and they have the results. Others say, have the same information, but they don't use it. What is it about people? And so I shifted my perspective from how do these computers work to how does the computer upstairs work? I have biological computer that we have in our mountains and that became a fascination for a long time. To this day, actually. And I have a couple of follow up questions, too. When you shifted the focus from computer to computer upstairs, what did you find is that difference between the two types of people that you were just described in, the ones who can run with something on the ones who have the info, and just observe it. What is that core difference? Thousands of years of wisdom have had, there's just wisdom books, a thousand years old that have a written about this. I just really think it's just clarity. That's for me is the simplest term. If I look at my most successful clients, they're not smarter than not better than not more experienced, they're not inherently better at anything. They're just more clear. So they get, they see something for themselves and they have an implement it next week. Or tomorrow, there's nothing in the way. There's no, yeah, but what if, what if we fail and what's the risk? And let's maybe one day, they don't have that going on. They just take them and run. And it's not like they're blind or naive or they don't see risks, but they know that when they're driven by inspiration, they communicate the risks, they communicate all those internal voices that come up with all kinds of nonsense. Yeah. So I would say it's clarity. Do you think clarity could somewhat be tied or mirrored or a reflection of not being ego driven? Yeah, that is the very definition of clarity, right? So the ego always has comments. I always call the ego the unbord consultant, right? Yeah. We have this consultant that constantly talks to us and says he shouldn't be doing that mess or do. The whole work is already doing this. You have no chance or enough good enough, or you have smart enough or you don't have the capital or the culture isn't, there's always something the ego says and we cannot make that thing show up, show up. We can't say, stop talking, ego. But with clarity, I mean that you distinguish between what is ego, what is unbord consultant and what is me. Yep. And the moment I can distinguish, the voice uses, it's still there, but it loses its power, like a radio that you turn from volume eight to like volume one. At the still there, you can get rid of it, but you can't stop being attention to it. So it don't keep shouting and you go, "Oh, interesting, no, I'm not gonna do that." But that's for me is the key everywhere and everything in your life and business everywhere. Yeah, I definitely agree with you. It's having that humility to just, I'm gonna give it a shot if it works great, if it doesn't, I'll learn, I'll learn what didn't work. So great, I'll optimize it and prove it. And then do version two and three and four of it. And for someone who's in a sort of leadership role, in a corporate leadership role, to be able to reach that ability to shush or not listen or not be led by that voice in the head, or the fear of failure or the fear of change. What do they need to go through to be able to do that? Yeah, that's the work. I started with this one, I was 17. I'm 50 now. I still remember when I was 17, I wasn't answer them. For a time ever without my parents, I was able to go on it. I've heard all kinds of things about Amsterdam, right? We all know the reputations. So I was going like, oh, I hope they don't opt for me any drugs or hopefully I don't meet any bad people and all right like this. Hopefully I don't go in there. Hopefully that doesn't. So I was already anxious while I was going there. Sure enough, I walk inside a central station and this guy comes over once they give me a hand and there's a packet of weed in his hand and I'm like, damn it, it's just here for one minute. So I was really anxious. So I walked into the culprits stop, which is a shot in Amsterdam. Where were approached by this guy with a clipboard and he says to me, hey, you want to do a personality test? And I was 17. I was looking for myself. So I thought, yeah, I want to do a personality test. Tell me where I am. Right? I have no clue. What am I going to do? It kind of worked. I have no clue. So please tell me so we followed him and do this building office building. Very safe. And I see all people there doing casts and we also get a binder and we started doing these tests. And at a certain moment, I'm looking at, okay, answer three questions. There's three hundred more. And I decided I'm not going to answer them. I just started to answer yes, no, yes, no randomly with my eyes closed. So I had it back my binder and then the guy says, you're going to have your results in 10 minutes. We sit out for 10 minutes later. I invited to join the guided desk and he said, Rich, look, you're the result of your test. I will do you a set up 17. Look, you have a problem saying no. And you have to learn how to overcome that. Otherwise, you're going to have a problem later on in life. And he says, would you like to have a conversation with one of our conscious? And I said, no, I said, hey, I'm ill already. I just said, no, I just said, no, yeah, and then he said, do you want to pass us? No, I said, wow, see, I don't have a problem. Because I knew that whatever was filled in nonsense because I just filled in nonsense. Whatever. Yeah. And so I didn't think that the coaches offered the opportunity to do the coaching by that book. I'm not going to name the organization, but I have a book and bought the book. And when I was at home, I started reading the book and it was super fascinating. Super that was my first real introduction to psychology and beyond. I was just fascinated and it never stopped from there. 17, I read that book. Then I went to the local library. You got all the books I could get. I started reading Wayne Dyer. Old school teachers, I started reading Alan Watts. I started reading that and of course it did it make sense, but that's where I started. And I'm not saying that as a leader, if you're now 50 or 60, you don't have a chance at it. But that's where I started. Now what I try to do with my clients are trying to convince all of that. Into what would I do if I start now and really simple, if you if I would start now, I would go on a Vibocina retreats. And I would learn how to meditate because that's the quickest, fastest way to start distinguishing what does the onboard consultant say. I was the difference between that and myself. And you can do that tomorrow if a bus area trees like seven, maybe 11 days, sometimes the plans on what that is, by way, it's horrifying beginning because it drives. I've done a couple of them. It's just. I want to go home like 20 times a day. But that would be the quickest way to really start distinguishing. And this is about your life. I see so many people suffering unnecessary, necessarily because they believe what their mind should tell them. It's never true what your mind tells you. It's never, ever trip. It's been a moment that you have power. That's when a cow comes from because you are your own authority. I call it I'm writing a book. It's called being your own authority. That's what it means to be your own authority. Not that thing in your mind. Not outside the government or the president or your boss. Those people on your door. You are your own authority. It's you know what to look. Yeah. Everything you're saying. I smile because I think I was 19 when I started the very similarly journey, probably in the same city as well. I was just a trip that just. Oh, really? Yeah. I didn't go do the survey, but I did go to Amsterdam and. Enjoy a trip. Let's put it that way. And so what comes to my mind is everything you're explaining is it's on point. It's spot on. And so what do you think about your priorities, forties, even in the workplace today? As an individual when you. You're vulnerable and open and describe yourself as that type of person. Typically, what I observe and see is. You're not like your. Or, you know, I don't want to go there. What do you feel causes a resistance in the human being to do that work to crack open to realize that you can be your own authority. Not the TV or the politician or where is that. Fear coming from this. That's the right word. I think that's the right word fear because we rather know the devil that we know than the devil that we don't know. Not everybody as as crazy as we are. I couldn't help it. I have to investigate. That's just in my. I don't know my DNA. I have. I was asking I was seven. I was reading books about Egypt. When my friends were reading books about a Donald Duck. I was reading about Egypt and Grinock and and incarnations and stuff like that. So I think somehow that was just part of me as always been part of me. But most people what what I see these days, what do you look like? Also, is that. Well, I'll give an example of my wife. My wife used to work for a Saudi folk company. And at a certain moment, she said, I like the income. I like the perks, but they put me behind the laptop for eight hours a day. I'm just sitting behind the laptop eight hours a day. I mean, you and me. I don't want to do that anymore. We don't even have time to talk to each other. They. The social part is gone. I don't work with a team. I'm just there. She was doing some life. I'm just behind the spreadsheet to hold it. And she said, but the problem is I have an income and I don't know what the other choice could be. If I quit my job, what else is on the other side? I don't know it. I've never explored it. And I think the fear for what's on the other side is so great that you don't jump and people just rather stay with what they know, like I said, the devil that they know, even though they're not happy with it. Then the devil that they don't know. So I think that is one of the reasons another reason is that people don't really see the impact of staying where they are because they're basically like to themselves. I'm going to say what lead right they're not honest with themselves. I hate my job. Or I don't like where I am right now. But. And then they start complaining. Yep. They don't really choose that. So they say I'm sitting in the job and then I started. I started complaining to people. I get cynical about boss. I got sarcastic about society in general. So basically what you're doing, you're not choosing your job fully because if you're choosing your job, you'd say this is a job. I choose it. And I deal with the consequences of the choice that most people don't choose. They stay in the middle. That's the worst way to be if you don't choose. I just keep doing something and then don't deal with the consequences of that choice. That causes a lot of suffering. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I find that. What you're describing that personality will stay in the job. They're not happy in or the relationship. It's just another kind of relationship business, professional sports, whenever it is. It's putting yourself last. Instead of first and I find it's funny because there's so much subtle indoctrination as you're growing up. When you're early teens, 20s, 30s and so on, where she put yourself first, you can often be described as selfish. When it's reality, she baffles me because I find that we are individuals in a collective sort of universe, but in order to be at your best, you need to put yourself first so you can be at your best. If you put yourself last and your job first or your role or your title or your salary, the perks, whenever would it is. Are you really living and delivering? I think Plato said that the unexamined life is not worth living. Plato could be one of the other great dudes, but the unexamined life is not worth living. It sounds harsh, right? But what's an unexamined life, what I hear is that if you just follow the programming that you've been given through childhood, and you just keep doing what that voice is just a voice, right? It's just a way of thinking that you've got from your parents, your society, your culture, and then you just start following that automatic, a cold automatic immediately, so you just wake up and already there it is. If you just keep following that, to me, it's unexamined. Yep. What are the big problems? I don't always tell my clients this, but whenever I start working with a corporation, people will leave their jobs when they become more aware. I don't tell them up front, just be aware of some people are going to leave their jobs because they see that what they're doing right now is not making them happy. But when people become more clear, whoa, I'm just running after wanting to please people or wanting to be a good boy or a girl, right? Like I was taught in the school that I need to say yes to people I need to be polite, but I don't agree with a lot of things that I say yes to. I don't want to be behind the laptop for eight hours. I'm going to leave my job, which is a good thing, right? Which is a good thing. But I don't tell my clients that always, oh, you're going to lose about 10 or 15% of people because they're going to wake up. That's right. That's it. That is, it's so true. Like I, when I graduated from university, I did the corporate world for four years and I woke up one day and I was like, I'm not here. I had a great title, great salary. Everything was like check, check according to societal norms. But my soul was like not alive, right? What is it you think when you start working with corporations and you've been doing this for years and really big house brands? A lot of heavy corpse you've been working with. What is it you think the leadership team needs to do to retain that 10 or 15% that will go through that. Uh-huh. Moment. Is there a way or a hope or something they could do to retain that talent because those are the magicians. Those are the challengers. Those are their rightful shakers. You know, exactly. You want to keep them in. You know, that is, there are a whole consultancy companies working on that one topic, right? How you retain people, the good people. My two cents on it is, and I'm just picking from experience. When I start with like cultural change programs, it always has to start from the top. If you start with one department, I've done that also to spread like oil spell, but the most effective way is that leadership has to lead from this new place of awareness first. I'm not saying they have to float around gurus or they have to wear work. They don't have to become super electing people. I'm not saying that at all. But leadership has to become aware of, wait a minute. How do how does my voice work? What is it that I'm always running afterwards? So they started distinguishing between what the onboard consultant does and what their creativity, their passion, their intuition says. I start following that first before we start working with the whole company. There have been many companies where I started to work with the leader, where four six months first. So he could actually start seeing something like openness awareness. But then we started working with his team. And then after that we started working with the people that will let the people and those leadership teams. So it really starts with leadership. Last week I was with a team and they have a very good leader, very inspiring guy. He's got a lot of packs, a lot of energy, still guy and he's also the GM. So we have a meeting, we've started nine. So on Friday we get an email, we have to start acting out later because I have a call. So he just sends them. Well, so everybody goes, okay, we started nine thirty. So come nine thirty, he's not there. There only two out of six people are in the room. The other ones we don't know where they are. So they come in one by one, but the leader sale isn't there. Then nine forty five, he walks in. Hey everybody, good morning. And he starts taking coffee and he starts a drink. And I'm sitting there and like, cool. I see what happens. So he sits down and he says, okay, let's start. And I ask him, I said, look, do you think there's a color sequence of your behavior right now? I'm not judging. I do you think that there is a consequence? He says, no, we do this all the time. We do this. We don't mind. Come on. We don't mind. And the rest of the team goes, yeah, we don't mind. But I know they're talking nonsense. It's nonsense. It has a consequence. Why? Because they're trying to transform this company. They want to go from 15% market share to 50% market share. That requires a new way of being new behavior. Right. If he keeps leaving, like, oh, you know what? Agreements. Why doesn't matter if you show up with new men as late. If you don't we fatigue you do it with the clients. It's going on and it can say no, but they do because it's just once that kind of behavior is apparently okay. So I made them look at what are the consequences. And then you they don't want to know. He said, no, let's just start. Let's just start. So we started later on, like, then it after them. They said they were there that there were three major clients who were leaving the company. And I said, why are they leaving? They're unhappy with support. They're unhappy with customer care. They're on because we made agreements that we didn't blow up on. I said, that's interesting. Tell me more. So we dove in. I guess what? It was exactly about the fact that they promise things and then don't do it. And then they say, oh come on. It's not that hot. But the lives walk away. If you find us a client, I'll call you by noon and you don't call them by noon. You know, trust. Of course, you know, trust. And they start thinking about, can we trust these people? Can we trust them when we have a major incident? Will they also be late? And so leadership has to go first. And I've said, no, too many leaders would do the work. And I said, no, no, you're not ready to do the work. You're a good person. You're a great guy, a great woman, fantastic leader, but you're not ready to change yourself because you want to do what you do. You want to keep going what you've been doing in the past. And then it doesn't work. Dan starts with that. That's my opinion. And if the leaders don't want to do that, I always say, the highest you can rise, right? The limit that you said is a leader. You can't expect you people to go above that. Right? The bar that you said is what people will rise up to. Well, if people rise higher than you, then they should be the leader. Yeah. So you as a leader, you have to look at what is the bar that I'm setting. And most people right, you're honest like they don't want to do that. Yep. They want to do what they've always done, but they won't better results. Guess what? That's not going to happen. Doesn't work that way. And so you have to change requires like change requires change. There's no other way to go about doing that. And I find skipping around the problem or positioning can just something you document and put on slides. That's why I didn't think I'd be actually we gave the reports and you should change this and change that. We didn't think I'd look at the human dimension. We just gave them new processes. And then we wondered why don't they implement? And I like the you use the term human now sort of element. I with my team, I managed a globally distributed team. I used to we used to position ourselves as ooh, we're customer centric. And then this year, I spoke a couple morning and I'm like, no, I don't like customer centric. And something was like stirring inside of me where with the term customer centric, I feel there's a disconnect between the customer and the provider. So we started this whole initiative where we're no longer customer centric or human centric. And good. As we put clay books and did workshops and all kinds of things to define what is it we need to do as a team internally and externally with our customers to be human centric. And I find that as we approach a human centric, we're the same because irregardless will industry or ambient software will retain or technology or medical. It's human to human at the end of the day. What do you think happens along the way from the industrial revolution and as things progress, societies, business, courts that lost the human? What sort of put the human away and said, you know what, let's just not focus on the human and focus on other things? What happened? - I think, and I could only speak about the Western, that's the thing that the use is different. The Western world is dominated by left brain thinking. - There's. - Right, left brain, male kind of thinking, which is about processes, which is about controls, about analysis, it's about cause and effect. If I went to a did an MBA and that was all about that, right? It was all about control, processes, trying to predict analysis, all that's that. And we looking very rich with that in the Western world, right? Just very rich, but that's just left brain thinking, right brain thinking, and I think we're going to a long period now from 2027 on. And you see that now, we're companies that incorporate right brain thinking, which is more about feeling, which is more about knowing without knowing it's more about it's wish and it's more about that stuff, right? It's mostly associated with the female brain, which it's not always true. It's not that black or white. But if you only use the left brain in business, then it's not about people, it's about the process and the people that work in the process, they're like second. I just say that they're like the second thing you look at, but the first thing is how do we make this process work better? And not how do we enable the people to deliver the process in the best way possible? How can we help them with their state of mind and their clarity so they can have as their best work? So I think of all the left brain thinking, especially in the Western world with their business schools, only left brain or yet the thinking. I think that is, again, it's a broad as a lot of well. But also it's costing us daily because look at the burnout rate so that the people who don't want to work at the corporations anymore, like my wife, eight hours behind the laptop, no, thank you. She felt like a zombie when she would come home. And it started with of course, with the management of literature and the 18s, something like what's their guide, Taylor? I don't even know the guide anymore by the way. It's the name, but you started west how do you predict production systems and stuff like that? Yeah. Yeah. But we're going back. Companies that keep doing that, they will left behind with people who only use that part of the brain. People will not wake up, they go leave the big corporations, they join and they make small corporations with people who work purpose driven. They do the big corporations, beyond. Yeah. It's funny. The big corporations that I didn't want to work for anymore, I know I read me back. To tell us what are we doing wrong? And I'm like, you're not doing anything wrong. You just forgot that the brain has two sides. It's left and right, right? Right. And that's how they simplify, right? There's more to it. But in the nutshell, I think that's a big part of it. Yeah, that's, yeah. And you have to have that equilibrium because you can't also only have not seminon energy. You have to balance both sides, left to and right. Oh, yeah. And find equilibrium. So were you saying women make better leaders? Oh, I think. Do you have a right here? Absolutely. I don't want to put it necessarily man-female, right? Because I think we need, I know guys who are more feminine than some women, as I, guys who are more feminine than some women, and I know some women who are more male than me, right? Just depends on how they see the world. I think we have to balance feminine and male thinking. And somebody a while ago said something beautiful. She said, we don't need feminine thinking. We need mom thinking. And I thought that was great because, what do moms do? They care. They nurture. They look out for people, right? I think that's what we need more. Because in companies, men, in general, look out for our decayed KIs. Yeah, yeah. And how are we doing on the budget and everything? And women tend to do more like, how's everybody doing? Yeah. Are we okay? Do we like each other? Do we listen to each other? Or is there what's the atmosphere in the room? If we can combine that, well, beautiful. Yeah. And women will also multitask. And women will have that sort of soft side. I'll take care of everyone. But as soon as there's a threat, Lauren will bring out her goals and switching to-- Oh, yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. And you mentioned 2027. Why 2027? Not 2026 or 2028? What's happening in 2027? It just sounds comfortable to me. 2027. What I think is the way I look at the world at least. I see that there are-- For a long time, it's been going on that people are leaving the big corporations. You see, that's happening more and more. So like OpenAI, this rupteable market. There's a bunch of people that left the big corporations started the AI, because they called OpenAI, and all of a sudden they're huge, right? That is because they didn't want to work at the big ones, that they used to work at anymore. What I'd see is that-- OK, let me share a short story that's also in the book. My grandpa and grandma, they were married to each other. Their whole life. I-- grandpa had one job. They never owned a car. They never traveled. They just lived in the village. They were married to each other. He worked in the coalmites his whole life, and they went to church. So they had those three pillars that their whole life was about. And of course, the family. It gave them a lot of meaning and a lot of safety, and it gave them a lot of security. Look now, 2024. I don't know what it's like where you are with the church's era empty. They're turning the men to bookshores or apartment buildings. So religion, and the people in the Western world, is on-- less or less people are looking in the direction. Jobful life doesn't exist anymore. Maybe some-- marriages, well, the divorce rates are up and up every year. So those three pillars that my grandparents will, by the way, wouldn't have used people I've ever met. That's gone. So people look for a new meaning, right? So more people now, I don't know, again, what it's like where you live. But if you want to go to a psychiatrist or psychologist him to an other list, there's a year waiting list. So people are in a resilient anymore. They're looking in another direction, instead of the vitamin business, anybody's vitamins, just to stay healthy. I think we're lost. To be honest, more and more meat people confuse looking for meaning. So they look for meaning, and there's a lot of retreats nowadays. There's yoga. But yoga is not what it's supposed to be about. They're supposed to. Yeah, they're wearing the hippas yoga clothing. That's no important thing in yoga class. I think people are looking for meaning. And the only meaning that can be found is inside. And I'm pointing again to being your own authority. If the prime minister is not telling you anymore how companies doing or your boss isn't there anymore, which you like job or you partner, you have to look on the inside. But most people go to the inside, now listen to the force in their head, which also isn't a good thing. That's just conditioning. So how do I go from looking to external authority, which is not an inner authority, which is not an own authority? And if you look there, you create your own meaning. Life has no meaning. There is no meaning to life. Life is empty meaningless, as they say in the landmark. But you can create your own meaning. Isn't that the best news ever? Yeah, I'm waiting every morning. I create my meaning. I walk out every morning with my dog. No matter the weather, I walk out. And I say, today it's going to be a fantastic, amazing day. And I'm going to bring all my best to the world. Yeah, some people might like that. Others say, well, I'll switch. I don't like it. I don't care. I create that. Yep. Right? And that's, I think, 2027, you've got to see them. More and more people looking for their role of eating. How do I create myself? Well, am I really, instead of being told who I am, by my parents, my culture, my country? And I think that's the way forward. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I'm all for that sort of approach of everyone. It's inside out, not outside it. Exactly. Yeah, and you bring that to the world, right? Yeah. I always laugh when people say, I want to be in a relationship because I want to feel loved. I always ask them, how's that kind of work? It's come by somebody going to send like love articles into your body. How's that going to work? You create the love. So why don't you just say, I'm looking for a relationship to bring my love to another person, instead of me wanting to get love from another person. Or people in the job. I'm leaving the job. Why? It doesn't get. me satisfaction anyway. It's impossible for you a job that you have you satisfaction. Why don't you bring satisfaction to your job? And if everybody would do that, it would be a fantastic place to work. Yeah. It doesn't work that way. Yep. It's not the other way. It's the reverse. It's reverse. Yeah. And just keeping track of time I could talk to you for hours. I know we were on a very one last question. If you were to provide one piece of advice like just one you had a one didn't you could switch it one thing for corporate leaders to change. What would it be in life? Oh, that's easy. Been using that for two decades. I have this slogan is called slow down to speed up. Mostly, there's that I work with. They've been gone and gays, business schools, you know, that's been their education. So they look at the numbers. They don't like the numbers. So what they do is they want more fides, they want more budget, they want people to work harder, they want people to be better trained, they want to hire better people. So that's the normal direction that they look at when they want to improve performance. I didn't have a works. It never and they know it, but they keep running. What I always say, what I always helped them was seeing the moment you see something that you don't like, stop any action, lean back, slow down mentally, let's start looking at what am I really looking at? Why isn't this KPI up anymore? Is it because we don't have the right amount of people, the right quality? Or is it something else? And I guarantee if you do that, you don't need more budget, you don't need more people, you don't need better education, you don't need better people. You need to see how do I show up as a leader that causes these results. And that points to the fingers towards you as a leader. And that's really hard to do because people want to point to everything except themselves because it's confrontational, but that is the work. And I guarantee every leader was willing to take a step back and look at themselves. I will see my God, I've only been working with 5% of my potential. There's a whole universe to discover. And yeah, so slow down to speed up. And if you slow down, those results will take care of themselves. Yep. Very true. And if those leaders want to find you to potentially hire your services and get your help, where should they go to find you? That can go to my website richhabits.com. Currently, I'm not high-robial. I'm busy working with the book and I'm more than fully booked. I'm always interested in people like you said, the business coaching academy that we have. That's another group town. I've started six months ago, four months ago, where we have a hundred great leaders leading coaches, coaches, people who are up with transformation. You can always come around there and see if you want to participate in that group. That is a great, great transformative group in the world. Yeah, that's it. I mean, look out for my look because everything I just talked about is also in the book. Looking forward to that. Super. Thank you so much, Rich for your time. I really enjoyed this conversation. It's always really having a chat with you as well as inspiring. It's both provoking mind opening, but at the same time, a reminder that, okay, maybe I'm not crazy after all. There is no. And I really appreciate your time. I'm looking forward to publishing this episode and I'm positive your words when you inspire and provoke some people out there to the game. Not Jerry. Yeah. Yeah. That's so. Thank you. Great. Thank you. Have a wonderful day and I'll see you soon. Do you? Bye. Yeah. Yeah.