Speaker 1It's like getting sober is one thing, but then learning how to manage feelings and emotions and live a healthy life is another thing. And I'll share something big with you right now, man. It's like I'm about four and a half years clean and I just started doing therapy again earlier this year and it's uncovered so much shit for the past few years. Like I thought because I wasn't picking up drugs and alcohol that I pretty much had my shit together. There's not much you could tell me, but yo, there was some like heavy buried shit down there, like resentment towards certain people, some things that definitely needed to be uncovered. So like abstaining from altering my state of consciousness is one thing, but learning how to live a good life clean and sober, that's a whole other, that's a whole other thing, bro. But it's way better than living in that shit. Hi there.
Speaker 2Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering Out Loud pod or by email at Recovering Out Loud pod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I'm so glad you're here. I was talking about his podcast and I've always loved podcasting. It's helped me through some of my darkest times and I've, I learn a lot from podcasting and I was like, Hmm, that guy can do it. Why not me? Right. Like I like talking. I like listening. I like interviewing people, like conversations. And, um, I was like, what can I talk about? Well, recovery, I can, you know, I've been doing this for 10 years. I'm passionate about it. And, uh, let me tell you, bro, like it's everything I thought it would be and more. I've had some of the most amazing people come in here that I never would run into ever like yourself. Right. Oh, God bless you. And I just fucking, like, I learned so much. Right. And so the reason I started it essentially was to stay sober myself. I have to keep, I had to remind myself that this morning because I'm doing a lot today and it starts to become like, eh, you know, this is a lot of work and I'm not getting the fucking results that I think I want, right. I'm not getting this and that it's like, dude, why did you start this? You started it to not fucking relapse again, because remember how horrible that was. I relapsed after eight years and, uh, you know, started doing things that I never thought I would do hanging out with people and never thought I would hang out with, and, you know, hopefully it helps one person. Right.
Speaker 1Those are the two kinds of things I try to live by. That's the goal. I always tell myself we don't grow in comfort zones. So when things get very uncomfortable and I can't handle it, I just kind of close my eyes. I try to reset and I'm like, it's going to make me stronger. It's going to make me tougher, but it's hard, man. It's easier said than done. Yeah. I have a crazy workload with work. I have a problem man of taking on too much. Maybe it's the attic, attic brain where I just thrive in chaos and I need to keep it as stacked as possible. But also part of me, it could be ego. A part of me too, is just like, if I'm not super busy, I'm not being productive and I'm wasting too much time and time's our most valuable asset and blah, blah, blah, you know? And my girlfriend is now helping me take a lot more time and I'm like, I'm scratching things off the calendar. Like I had a double production day this week. Thursday, Friday, I canceled Friday, you know, because the week is just so crazy. There's so much happening. Sat and then Sunday, I leave town again. I'm always on the road. Uh, so I'm learning to take more time for myself, which is important, but easier said than done.
Speaker 2Absolutely. Um, can you describe to people what, what you do and what, what, how you got into it?
Speaker 1Not really, because I don't know what, what I do, but I get asked all the time, like, what's your day-to-day like Monday to Sunday is completely different in some ways that's by design, uh, in some ways it's not. And what I mean by that. Is essentially have a very dynamic workflow. So on Monday I could be, you know, shooting breakfast television on Tuesday, I'm sitting here with you, you know, and then on Wednesday I'm consulting, you know, and then on Thursday I'm popping up in Melbourne. Like, you know, it's, uh, it's really, really random. Um, like for example, this week I'm here with you. We have a big production day where I'll shoot organic content content this week and some brand partnership work. We have some brand partnership stuff for PC president's choice, uh, McCain, McCain fries. They brought up some like Indian. Type fries. So I'm doing like this loaded anyways, you gotta see the video and then Sunday I'm, I'm, I'm on a work trip in Turkey, Istanbul, uh, doing some fun stuff out there with some local chefs from Toronto. So every day is different. I love it dynamic. I don't want to be in a bricks and mortar seven days out of the week. Everyone keeps asking me to work a restaurant, but I would prefer they open it and they're there 140 hours a week, you know, not me. So, uh, I love being on the road. Um, we, you were talking about this earlier about how much you're learning. I just want to learn. I just want to travel and keep learning. And I was talking about this a few days ago. Like I was in the kitchen in Jamaica, uh, not too long ago when we were supposed to do this, I got stuck there, but the greenest, youngest, most inexperienced person in a kitchen, anywhere I go has something to offer me. I got goosebumps when you were saying that, yeah, they have something to offer me. And I used to walk around the kitchen like 10 years ago, not asking any questions because I didn't want anyone to think I had any gaps in my game. And now I ask questions nonstop. I don't care where I am. Who's there. I can be talking in front of a group of people. I can be talking in front of a group of kids. And if someone does something I don't recognize, or I'd like to know more about it, I will ask them the question and, and yeah, so very dynamic workflow. I just want to have lots of fun, inspire people to cook, serve my neighbor and, uh, and enjoy this life to the fullest. Yeah.
Speaker 2I love that, man. Um, humility, right? I can learn something in every single situation. Every time, every single situation. And the minute I'm not open to it, first of all, like how many? Like how many relationships I could have had with people that I wrote off because I'm better than you, or I know more than you, or you don't know shit, like think about all those little micro interactions that you could have when you're just like, or left the wrong impression with being a
Speaker 1dick. Right. Uh, you met, you mentioned humility that my favorite quote in life is about humility. It's a true humility is not thinking less of yourself, but it's thinking of yourself less. And it's my favorite thing prior to going to Renaissance in 2015. I didn't know about humility. I didn't know about ego or ego deflation. And I learned all those principles when I was there. And although I didn't stay sober coming out of Renaissance in 2015, those things were instilled in me. And we were talking a little bit before about when I was at art and all that stuff. And I was able to take some of those principles into my last treatment session, um, four ish years ago. Now humility is a big one.
Speaker 2Congrats, man. It's God bless. What a miracle for guys that, uh, I don't know about you, but couldn't put four minutes together. At some, some days of sobriety. And then we come in and we put four years together and it was a mess.
Speaker 1I was a mess. And all my daily mission was to convince everybody that everything was good. Like I just, it was constantly a mask exhausting. It was, you know, I was talking to this therapist about this and he's like, what happens when you wore the mask? I was like, I could be this different person on the outside. Right. So like I would appear to you the way I would be. I would appear to you the way that I want you to see me. And then he's like, what else does it do? And I was like, he's like, it's a two way thing. Right. So like, I, I, I project this image of what I think I want on the outside, but he's like, nobody can see the real me because you can't see in, so it's a two way thing wearing the mask. And I never looked at it that way before. And it was like kind of a double whammy for me, you know? And, um, I do my best to try to be like, as genuine and authentic as possible now. And that leads me into being vulnerable. It leads me into being more direct and blunt. And it. Leads me into awkward situations, places that I was very afraid of before, but now not so much. Yeah.
Speaker 2You can kind of just sit in it and be like, you were mentioning before is like, this is going to benefit me. I'm going to grow from this. Right.
Speaker 1Whatever this moment passes, like this too shall pass. Like it's not like it's like my mom says it best. She's like in five years, no one's going to care. Yeah. These little things that we worry about in 50 years, does it matter? I mean, I mean, it's a little bit morbid at the same time, but no, it's true. It's a small thing.
Speaker 2I saw a real one time of a girl saying, um, and this applied to me at the time, cause I. I struggle with this body image thing. I've, you know, one of the reasons I got into steroids and relapsed the last time I talk about it a lot, but she said at your funerals, anyone going to remember how nicer your butt was, right. Or how big your boobs were. And I was like, yes, like I needed to hear that today. Right. No, one's going to be talking about how fucking jacked you were at your funeral.
Speaker 1No, it's true. It's very, very true. And all the material stuff I saw this thing on, on Instagram too. It's like all of these things that you amass with, they don't get buried with you. You don't take them with you. You come in. To this world with nothing and you leave with nothing. So it's all, uh, it's all growth, right. We're learning and we're getting older. So you train regularly.
Speaker 2Yeah. I mean, not as much anymore. Um, I've been walking every day with my wife. I find that that's liberating for me. Here's my problem with, um, w well was my problem with working out. I had a very, um, toxic relationship with it. So what that means, and I think a lot of guys can relate to this, that I've talked to, if I didn't go to the gym five days a week and I missed that one day, I was a piece of shit, right. I was going to get fat. I was, I would beat myself up the entire day. Yeah. And so I thought that that was productive because it fueled me to go to the gym every day. And I was like, you know, I got really big, right. Totally. Really nothing. So today when. when I don't go to the gym, I'm like, I should really start. It's a lot healthier of a relationship. And that's what matters to me today. Like, am I, I got to go to bed with myself at the end of the night, right? Nobody else sees what's going on or not even my wife, right? I got to deal with that shit. That guy in my head that tells me you're going to get fat. You're not enough. You're not enough. It's usually not enough, right? That's usually what it is. Um, so now I'm happy if I go for a walk every day, I can enjoy it more. I'm with my wife and I'm not, you know, alone in my head judging guys at the gym, right? Like this guy's fucking staring at me. You know, those conversations you have in your head. If he came up to, I would say this and I would say that, I don't know. A lot of crazy shit goes on in my mind. You know, after, excuse me, after getting
Speaker 1sober, I had to learn to relive life and I'm listening to you and I'm relating to what you're saying. Cause like when I got clean a few years ago, I was training seven days a week, like completely over-training. Cause if I missed that seventh day, the voice in my head was like, you know, you're not doing what you need to be doing. This is your escape. This is what you're, you're alcohol with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then now I'm at a point where I like, I took the last two days off, you know, I was up at the cottage, but I'm going to go ham later today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big push date today. But, uh, it's like getting sober is one thing, but then learning how to manage feelings and emotions and live a healthy life is another thing. And I'll share something big with you right now, man. It's like, I'm, I'm, I'm about four and a half years clean. And I just started doing therapy again earlier this year. And it's uncovered so much shit for the past few years. Like I thought because I wasn't picking up drugs and alcohol that I pretty much had my shit together. There's not much you could tell me, but yo, there was some like heavy buried shit down there, like resentment towards certain people. Um, just like still not treating women properly, you know, like I don't want to get into too much detail, but there was some, some things that definitely needed to be uncovered. So like abstaining from altering my state of consciousness is one thing, but learning how to live a good life, clean and sober, that's a whole other, that's a whole other thing, bro. But it's way better
Speaker 2than living in that shit. Yeah. Yeah. And like the sort of unlearning of old behaviors to discover what are they? I heard it once someone said, um, I think it was Chuck C who's a member of a certain fellowship. And he always used to say, um, recovery gives you the ability to uncover, discover and discard. Yeah. Like you come in here and you're like, wow, I do this thing a lot. And for me, um, I can relate to, you know, this uncovering for me, it's the emotional abuse of other people. Um, when you, so let's say I'm in a situation and you make me feel uncomfortable. Well, I'm going to be passive aggressive towards you. And I'm going to make sure that every single person hears it because I want to feel better about myself. So I'm going to put you down. I'm going to make a sarcastic remark and I've done, I feel good. People are laughing at my jokes. You feel like shit. And I feel better about myself. That's really mean. That's, that's when I really had to, had to dig deep with this last time. I didn't realize I did it. I thought it was like, I'm just joking guys. I'm just joking, man. I've done the same thing,
Speaker 1you know, getting laughs at other people's expense with my sarcastic BS. I did it a lot. That was, that was my classic behavior when I was under the influence class, very class clownish, you know, like jokes at the expense of other people. I, uh, it doesn't make me feel good when I go back to those times and I gotta, I gotta, I gotta be better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It never like fighting
Speaker 2or, or confrontation never ends up with me going home at the end of the day and be like, that was great. You know, I feel good. I, I, I won. I never feel better. Right. Yeah. So you've, you've come a long way. Yeah, I think so. Um, there's still a lot of growing to do. Right. But, um, yeah, like I, I had a lot of, uh, you know, I was, I was sharing actually yesterday, uh, at a meeting and I was talking about, uh, the principles of recovery, right. These sort of honesty, hope, faith, uh, perseverance, service, um, brotherly love that, you know, all these things that were taught to practice in our daily lives. And when I went into rehab, those were all the, you know, at a high level, those were the things that they were trying to instill home. So I could take that tool belt and get it out into the world. Every time I relapsed, I wasn't, I was not practicing one of those principles. And usually it was honesty. It was usually honesty to your point. Like I'm okay. I'm good. I'm not going to tell you about what's going on back here that I'm, you know, taking steroids or I'm, uh, thinking about getting on ADHD medication because I need to focus. I got it. I'm good. Right. And that's every, like I've relapsed every time because of that. Right. I had three major ones where, um, they took me down for a long time. And, uh, so now it's like, I gotta be brutally honest about everything, right. Everything, every little thought that comes in my head that is like these sort of plans and ideas. It all starts with a at the time. It's totally insignificant, right? I didn't think anything of it. And I'm not saying that everybody that gets on TRT is going to relapse. But for me, it led me to that. Ah, fuck it. You know, I'm doing this. Might as well take a little bit more. Might as well buy, uh, Anovar and all these other steroids, right. That I'm looking into. And then I'm not telling anybody. I'm not telling anybody. Next thing I know I have Adderall in my hand and I started abusing that and I'm smoking meth, you know, in a trap house somewhere four months later.
Speaker 1It was a bit of a gateway situation. Absolutely. I feel like, not knowing you very well. Uh, I mean, I think I reached out to you because I saw, I saw, we talked about Eric and stuff like that. Um, but I saw the content and I really, it really resonated with me because obviously I follow a lot of accounts that discuss sobriety and mental health and addiction, et cetera, et cetera. But there was one, there was just something that seemed very raw. I mean, one part of it is you've, you've worked with guys and people that I know intimately, you know, throughout the program, um, you know, not intimately, but very well, I guess. Um, but there was something very raw and real about it. And you're also like citing very specific things from your past in terms of character defects, uh, which like indicates to me that you've done a lot of work, man. And like, you know exactly what it is that you need to work on. And you're also seem like me. It's easy to lose it. Yeah. That's so true. Just like that. All I
Speaker 2have is today, right? You know, I, this recovery doesn't keep well, you know, yesterday's recovery isn't going to keep me sober today. I have to remember that. And you were, it's funny when you came in here, you're like, you know, I have a lot of work to do. I have a lot of work to do. I have took my foot off the gas on the recovery thing for a bit, and then it pops into my life. And now I have a choice to fucking go head on with it or just ignore it and say, I'm fine.
Speaker 1When it rains, it pours. Um, I was sponsoring a gentleman. He's a gentleman. Now I was sponsoring this kid, uh, a few years ago. It's funny. He reached out to me online. Cause he saw me celebrating caravan in Toronto. I was at one of the FETs, one of the parties and people are just losing their mind all around me. We're jumping up and down. There's flags in the air. There's and he follows me. I didn't know him. And he's like, how are you remaining sober through all this? It doesn't make sense to me. And I mean, I was working a program really strongly at that time. Those parties, which I still go to every now and then I'm not doing them very often. I love the saying, you know, if you sit in a barber's chair long enough, you will eventually get a haircut. So I live by that. Right. So I pop into these things here and there. And I'm also not there from like 11 AM to midnight. I'll go for a few hours, you know, or as much as I think is enough. I love the culture. I love the music. I'm Guyanese. I'm Caribbean at the end of the day. So he saw me doing this and he's like, how is this possible? Long story short, we started working together. He lived about half an hour away. I took him through the entire book. I spent a lot of time with him, but he kept relapsing. He kept relapsing. He kept relapsing and stuff like that. He eventually found another home group in the East end of the city. He found another sponsor and I think he had had enough and his, his, you know, his, I don't need to get into details, but some personal stuff had evolved on his end with his marriage and stuff like that. And, and guess what? A few months ago, he's like, Dev, I'm, I'm approaching a year. Can you come speak at my one year? And I was like, bro, this is so fire. And, and like, like what we talked about earlier, I hadn't done too much prior to this, but I went and spoke as the guest speaker on Friday at the AA meeting. And then I'm here with you. And then tomorrow my buddy and I will do the, uh, life after alcohol. Uh, we're starting a series to talk cause he's in Melbourne, other end of the world, especially, uh, from a, from a time standpoint. So yeah, we're, we're, we're doing that, uh, that live stream tomorrow. So I had, what's that? It's on IG live at 9 PM Eastern standard time. But, um, it's just interesting. I also feel like this is where I need it to be. Like this is, this is a little bit of divine intervention, higher power, spirituality coming in here. Maybe character defects were starting to creep back in. Like it seems a little bit overwhelming at times. Like I was talking to my girlfriend about some serious stuff yesterday and I'm feeling a little bit beat down. I'm feeling a little bit vulnerable. I'm feeling like a little bit like slightly teary eyed and like 10 year old boy, bald fist. You know, I'm going through a lot of stuff with, with a very close family member right now too. And it all seems like a lot, but I also feel at the same time that we don't go in comfort zones. It's my favorite saying one of the, one of them, and this is where I need to be. And I need to feel my way through all of this instead of suppress any of it. So, so yeah, to, to have all this like recovery, recovery, recovery, cause man, it's exhausting sharing your story. It is. Like to share your, your full story a few times, like over, like in a week, that takes a lot out of you. And you know, I'm not, I'm not superhuman by any means. Um, but this is the whole story of my life trying to find balance, you know, it's tough. So I'm just, I'm just grateful that this is what it is now instead of me going AWOL for four days in a row. Right. So I'll take this side.
Speaker 2Yeah, I agree. Um, can you get into a little bit about like how maybe, you know, backtrack a bit, how you found substances? What they did for you and then, um, how you found recovery. I grew up in Richmond Hill. I grew up
Speaker 1into a home yeah yeah uh baby and waldrick okay okay yeah so where about i was young and elgin mills bernard yeah let's go yeah so i tim morton's right there i was fishing for darts there my entire childhood um so i grew up in richmond hill uh my parents were together i had an elder brother who was amazing his name was jai five years my senior any room jai walked into immediately he went to st rob's and stuff i went to st rob's like you know beverly acres we spoke french and stuff like that and anywhere jai walked into he would be able to connect with anybody and played guitar and and and you know chief boy scout star hockey player like just ears pierced dyed hair in a rock band just doing everything that you know typical brown kid would not do at that time and i'm talking 80s 90s right so quite some years ago uh so i grew up in this type of environment my mom was the best uh but i was definitely very disconnected to my father and he was very much played the role of an enforcer in the years that i could remember um and just yelled a lot and my brother and i and and very what i see now is like verbally abusive but i don't want to paint my dad out to be a bad person you know i want to be clear that he provided us with with everything that we needed and and over the years it's like practicing compassion and empathy for like him coming from guyana him having to face the challenges that he did i'm a lot more compassionate to him now you know his dad died when he was young these are all things that i didn't know growing up or prior to treatment and and therapy it was always just like you didn't take me fishing you know you yelled at me for leaving a drawer open kind of thing instead of me being like he was just doing what was best for us so like man most of like when i went to treatment bro this last time my goal in treatment a few years ago was to go get clean but still find a way to resent my dad which is sick to think about now but that's what i thought i could do obviously that doesn't work so anyways um i got introduced to substance at like i think it was 12 or 13 years old uh marijuana and uh from that first puff i felt weightless and it was almost like you placed a warm scarf around my neck or a blanket and it gave me a hug and it just gave me like a community of guys to be with the people to be with and it made me feel something other than than the way that I felt without it. And I found solace in that place. So as the years went on, any substance that I could ingest to alter my state of consciousness became a happy place. And I found a lot of comfort in that place. It made me less awkward in social situations. It made me feel more than because I felt less than before. And over the years in, in, in therapy, I've learned that I was lacking love as a kid. I was not getting it from where I thought I should have been getting it. So I was just changing the way that I felt to, uh, to feel the love missing love. I do believe that we are biologically hardwired to receive love from not one, but both our parents, you know? And, um, and yeah, so, so I just, I just used and used and used, um, fast forward into the future, like maybe several years, I'm 21 years old and I get a phone call from my mom. She's like, you have to come home right away to give you some context. This is 2006. Okay. 19 years ago. She's like, you got it. And I'm 21 years old. She's like, you got to come home right away. I get home. I find out that my brother died, you know? So my brother, um, died pretty gruesome man, suicide. We never got to the bottom of it. And, uh, I never got to say goodbye. And like, I was already an addict. I was already an extreme user of whatever was in front of me prior to this happening, excuse me. But this just gave me like free range to just go off the deep end. My brother died. You can't tell me shit. So my, my drug use and the escaping and numbing just went absolutely crazy. And that was my, I don't know if I want to call it a get out of jail free card, but that was just what I waved in people's faces, right? Like, yo, my bro died. Like, don't tell me shit kind of thing. Um, and, and, and, and the drug use and the numbing and all that, it just, it just, it just increased and increased. And while this is happening, I'm, I'm becoming a chef. Uh, you know, I'm a, I'm a T I'm on TV. I'm traveling. I'm doing all these things throughout my twenties. Uh, but we were talking about this before. My whole goal is to convince you that everything's okay. So I just become a master manipulator. This is something that since I was a teenager, I'm just full of deceit. I'm cunning, you know, and I'm just trying to convince you. I make, I'm trying to convince you to, to, to think what I want you to think, you know, and I'm just an actor and I don't even know who Devin is at the core of it. I don't even know who that person is. What are their morals, their ethics, principles, you know, I don't even know what that, what those words mean or anything like that. Um, in 2015, I ended up going to Renaissance, uh, where I learned, um, about the program. I learned about, uh, I met Eric, you know, I learned, I saw people recover as a result of doing the work of 12 steps. And that planted a seed in my head. I came out, I was clean for 10 months. I relapsed and I was back out again for a bunch of years. And then in 2021, I had just got back from traveling for about a couple months. And I was like, I'm going to do this. I'm going to do a couple months, uh, during COVID. And I called Eric and I'm, I was just like, man, at this point, I'd already driven myself to the hospital a couple of times, you know, with chest pain. And like, I was just, I was dying. I was actually dying. I couldn't stand up straight. Um, I couldn't clench my fists. I was putting on a lot of weight from the binge eating binge drinking. Like I was just unhealthy. My knees were swollen, you know, I wouldn't eat for three days, you know, then just eat junk food and stuff like that. And I was dying. I remember driving myself to the hospital once, bro, where it's like the chest pains were so bad that I thought I was going to like keel over and crash into something. And I'm walking in like crunched because any sharp movement or any quick movement I felt would just slice through my heart. That was the pain that I was getting. And I was just like, bro, like you have so much potential. You have, you're so talented at certain things when you apply yourself, like this can't be your legacy, man. This can't be your life. And I called Eric and he's like, let's get you tapped in. And, uh, I got a good sponsor and I just like, I gave it 105%, bro. And, uh, that was, I've been clean since May, 2021. So that's like a kind of a quick run through of, of what it was like. Yeah, man. I'm sure you can relate to some of that stuff. Yeah. Um, I'm just, I'm so curious,
Speaker 2like, what was it like, you know, the term functional alcoholic gets thrown around a lot. Bro. Like what was it like and potential? I love that word. That word used to fucking. Kill me because I talked to so many people now with, with my job and trying to get them into treatment. And, you know, my husband's a functional alcoholic and, uh, it's not that bad yet, or I'm a functional alcoholic and I'm going, but I'm going to work and I'm showing up and I'm doing all these things. And what was it like, you know, trying to be lived to your potential and not being able to.
Speaker 1My output was mental. My, and I was just telling someone this in the car the other day, because we were talking something about like, why didn't anybody talk to you? Or like, why didn't, like, why weren't people more like if they were your friend? So, oh, someone asked me your friends from back in the day, uh, that you used to use a lot with, are you still close with them now? And I'm like, you know, this, this, my friend Donovan said it once. He's like, I love them from a distance. And that's what I do. I love them from a distance. Right. Um, but I couldn't blame any of them, bro, because it's like, I was on billboards, you know, in those years in Toronto, like I was, we would be after party, you turn on the TV, I'm cooking on TV. And it's like, what were they supposed to tell me? Because my output was so high, but that was all part of the charade, bro. It was all part of the charade that it's like, I worked so hard to build this image of someone who had their shit together that like, you would question me less about, um, how effed up everything was. Right. And that you would look past all this like guilt and shame and like self-seeking behavior and egotistical behavior that was in me. Um, but to your question, like, what was it like knowing I had the potential and not living up to it? It was really like, uh, it was really unfulfilling. Um, at the same time I was like, you know, I lost my brother and, and, and, and I should have been valuing my life and like owing it to my parents to live my best life possible. And I was just kind of throwing the dice every day with my life. And man, it was just like a very lonely, dark place. I don't ever want to go there, man. It was a really, it was a really lonely place for sure. That's interesting that, um, yeah. Cause you know,
Speaker 2my wife and I were actually talking about this the other day. Um, an alcoholic or an addict with like sort of, I don't want to say, um, no limits on finances, but when you have the finances coming in and your work is good, it is so hard to get sober because why would you like, things are okay. You know what I mean? Even though I'm dying inside.
Speaker 1So that's part of my story in, in 20, in, uh, 2019, I'm cooking in India. Uh, 2020, I'm cooking in Turks and Caicos for a month, Pakistan. I'm traveling for four months cooking all over the world. And I fly back March 15th, 2020. Cause my mom, I flew from Borough market in London. I'm doing, I'm cooking there in UK. My mom was like, get your ass home. They're closing the borders. So I came home cause I was going to be gone for another month or two. I come back with probably what was COVID and food poisoning. Uh, and I came out five days later at my parents' house, March, March 20th, 2020. And I put out the first, what was the chef dev at home series, all my posters. I put out the first, what was the chef dev at home series, all my posters. I started going viral. I started to build a massive following, usually utilizing pantry staples at home, whether I'm grading $50 worth of black truffle on KD, or I'm remixing the Shin Ramya noodles downstairs with all kinds of veg and cracking eggs on top. That's what I'm doing. I'm in the papers. I'm here. I'm everywhere. Brands start knocking at my door. So bro, I come from a place of like working three, four days to make a certain amount of money, you know, whereas now I'm doing a one hour live stream and getting paid double for 45 minutes to like two hours work. So just as you're talking, bro, I was making more money than I'd ever made at the beginning of COVID because of all the brand partnership deals that started coming through. And what happens? I'm moving to a place downtown. I'm living in this place of Queen and Gladstone. I'm paying a ridiculous amount of money for the first floor of an entire home by myself. So dumb, bro. You know, and what am I doing? I'm just hosting parties every day, every day, every day. And then what happens? And further to your point, I have budget for whatever I want. I've never had money like this before. And what happens? The, the, you starts to become more and more. I start isolating more and I start going further and further deep down into that hole. And it was actually, that's what led. Me to my bottom. You know, it was, it was less than a year later that I called Eric and I got, got into art. So yeah, I can fully relate to the, to the money part of it. Cause before you're scrounging for money, like I was stealing money. I was trying to, to, to support, to support my addiction, but then it just started rolling in and, and yeah, I would have died. I would have
Speaker 2died, man. I had no limit. Yeah. It's it's you know, cause my, one of my, my last bottom I went into rehab and I gave my wife. Uh, probably, I would say probably a week or two worth of drugs. Right. I had the drugs and I had never done that before. Right. I usually, I ran out of drugs and then ran out of money at the same time and I had nowhere to go and I hit an emotional bottom, like all three of those things kind of lined up. But this last time, um, and I talk about it a lot on here, uh, but I ran out of money. I had nowhere to stay cause my wife had kicked me out at the result as at the advice of a very smart, educated therapist that was like, you're enabling him just by allowing him to sleep in the bed. Right. And, uh, I went on a four month, uh, bender and I can relate so much to, well, I got to stay at the Ritz because I can, and I'm going to have people over that, you know, I don't know any of these people in my house. You know, my drug dealer is the only one that'll hang out with me at that point. Right. Cause no one, when you, when you stay sober for a long time, you build a network of people that know you as the sober guy. So when you invite them to come party, they come once or twice. And then they realize that you're back. You know, that it hasn't gotten better. You haven't gotten a hold on this addiction thing and you're still an addict. And they, and then I don't, I'm enabling him just by hanging out with them. I don't want to. And plus I'm not a fun guy to be around when I'm, I wouldn't even invite
Speaker 1those people. Yeah. Oh, really? No, not even anybody that would, that would question, question it. Like, it's interesting. Like when I would get clean, like I had my cousins and I had a crew that I was with, but I did not, I did not prioritize those people when, uh, cause they would call me up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, you're not coming. I know who I can invite over. I know who won't judge me. That's what I want over. I want enablers.
Speaker 2The yes men. Yeah.
Speaker 1No negative behavior, no negativity over here. You know,
Speaker 2I want enablers. Yeah. Yeah. It's true though, right? Yeah. It's true. And, uh, one of the hardest things I try to get family members to, to, uh, and I, I never tell anybody to kick out their loved ones out of their house, but it is such a hard, you know, what if he dies? Yeah. That is always a possibility. You kick out your husband and you kick out your son and he dies. What if they die in your house? Right. I had a lady in here that was, uh, a therapist for teenagers, right. And family. And she said that to me and I was like, yeah, that's, that's a great point. You know, what if they die in your house? Um, but these are, these are things enabling to me is, and this is, I didn't make this up, but whenever, so it's shielding somebody from the natural consequences of their addiction. Right. So if I'm running out of money and someone gives me money for a haircut, you just supported my haircut. Now I have money to buy drugs. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't seem like it's often led with good intentions, but it, it always, you know, you're, you're allowing me to be comfortable in my, in my using, right. And you're not allowing me to hit my bottom that I would have hit without it. Right. So I had to, I had to go the hard way and I had to rack up a bunch of debt and go and surf hotels and the Bisha and all these guys I've never been. So I got to try them all out. Right. They suck, man. There's nothing, you know what I mean? Like their hotel rooms at the end of the day, there are four walls with fancy furniture. And I thought I was living, but at the end of the day, it's your point. It's like, I want everyone to see how good I'm doing and how, how successful I am. Yeah. All ego. Right. I have to check that shit every single
Speaker 1day. My biggest problem was ego, bro. Yeah. It's just, my whole life was the Devin choke. Yeah. It's hard to think about, bro. That's hard to think about it, man.
Speaker 2So you get sober and you continue on. Um, let me ask you this. What does, what?
Speaker 1Success look like to you today? It's a really good question. Um, I think success to me today is being able to sit in a room for like an hour with no distractions. I think, I think if you asked me that five years ago, I would have given you like a, a salary figure or something like that. I think for me, success is to be comfortable in my own skin and, uh, and just be able to build and support. You know, it's things that I never thought before it has, it always had to do with money before or being financially secure. It has nothing to do with that. It's just to be able to live a good life without the goosebumps, man. Like just be comfortable in my own skin and like, let me handshake. I think like this is success to me, bro. Cause I used to be like, you just reminded
Speaker 2me about that. Actually. I remember there was a specific time. Uh, and this is why I love doing this because you know, it brings up remember when's and yeah, uh, because it was bad, but, you know, I, I'm a good forgetter at just how bad it was sometimes. Right. And I can remember, you know, I, my dad loves watching F1 and, uh, I used to go there Sunday mornings in addiction and, uh, you know, benzodiazepines became a big part of my story because I would get way too high. And, uh, again, to, to the point of it always gets worse. Like I, I never touched that shit in my life. And then now I'm anyways, it's a progressive illness. Yeah. So I'm doing benzos and that's a dangerous thing because you mix that with stimulants, the stimulants come down at the end of the night and all the benzos you took that were kind of leveling you out. They smack you right in the face when the, when those stimulants wear off. So I'd be driving and I would black out. Yeah. I wouldn't remember. Right. And it would come out of nowhere. And so I remember going to my, my parents' house and sitting down watching, uh, my dad has a TV outside. And I remember, you know, we were smoking cigars or cigarettes at the time. And I just remember this like shaking. And he, I remember him looking at my hand and knowing that I wasn't okay. Did he know before that, that you weren't? Yeah. They had some inclination, um, because I would, uh, subconsciously I would go there in a blackout. I did once, actually, I went there in a blackout one time. Now I see it as a cry for help at the time. I was just like, I'm going to go to my parents' house and I'm in a good mood. And you know what I mean? But that was, uh, that was the point where I was like, help me. You know what I mean? I don't know about you, but I fucking suck at asking for help. I suck at it. I I'm very, I want to know the way to do it. I know the way to do it. I'm okay.
Speaker 1Right. I'm better now. I'm better now because I've dropped the ego, but going back to what I was saying before about not wanting to ask any questions in the kitchen, I don't want to show any chinks in my armor or any gaps in my game. I want it to be the know it all. So now I ask for help. Uh, I think it's tied directly to humility and ego deflation for sure. Uh, I ask all the questions now, and if I need help or admitting when you're wrong, like that's one thing that I'm really proud of is like. Especially with my girlfriend or someone else. It's like, I was wrong. You know, that was my mistake. I think that's really, really important, that accountability. Um, but yo, when you're talking about your parents, it gives me the chills too, man, because bro, my whole life, all I wanted to do was hide this shit from my parents. And my mom always knew she would know three days after, cause she could see it in my eyes or my behavior or my short temperedness. Yo, my car, bro. Oh, it's like, there was, many kleenexes in the door of my truck that like you couldn't get another one in there bro you know i should have been sponsored by kleenex back then because i was plowing through them so she would borrow my car or get in my car and she would see them like just bursting out of there and i felt like i was emptying it three times a day bro uh but my mom was not stupid she knew and she's the person that i feel like i robbed the most sleep of over the years so that's uh i was sharing this on friday actually like that's why she's my best friend that's why we travel so much together that's why we shoot content together that's why we spend so much time together um it's because that i can't make up for the time that i robbed but you know i can make the most of the time that i have going forward with her right so i really prioritize her and uh i was just on the phone with her this morning you know just chatting with her about some stuff so yeah parents uh and my dad my dad's relationship my relationship with my dad rather is also really really in a good place it's it's it's in my opinion it's in the best place it's ever been in foreign 41 years and i'm 41 years old so super grateful for that yeah i love it man um i always get
Speaker 2reminded of what i need to hear and uh yeah that's one of them my my mom my mother and i used to go for walks a lot and uh there was a time when the only text messages i would get from her in those four months were hey are you alive like that was that was you know what i mean breaking bro
Speaker 1like yo the amount of calls i ignored like i'm ignoring them at 8 a.m at noon at four at eight at 12 at three and it's just like it makes me feel sick and the whole time i'm seeing it ring bro and i never answered
Speaker 2you know um that makes me sad i think i think uh just to pivot a little bit passion is an important thing um in recovery right to find some kind of passion something to stay close to to how did you get into cooking and what is cooking what does it do for you what do you like about it uh yo so like
Speaker 1i'm so passionate about cooking and food man like and i hear it all the time from people i feel like we were at the cottage and the guys were talking about it there. And I think it's because like, I can't fake it and I can't hide it. And anybody who looks at my comment, I just love, I love everything about food. I love the way that it makes me feel. I love how it opens me up to other cultures. I love how it's, it's something that we have to do. You have to eat, right? So you might as well make it super exciting. Um, it's allowed me to travel the world and meet so many people and learn so much about myself and others. So, um, I got into cooking as a kid. Um, I just loved flavors. I was always attracted to the sites and sounds and aromatics, the scents coming from the kitchen, uh, pots clanging, you know, like the flame clicking on, uh, smelling basil hit a tomato sauce. I know you can relate to that, you know, like all of that. And, and, and funny enough, I grew up very close to my uncle Joe and auntie Maria and Concord. Um, they worked with my dad, uncle Joe worked with my dad. So we grew up with like sopressata, and like Torone and like, you know, melanzane alla parmigiana. These are all things that I grew up with, right? Carbonara, et cetera, et cetera. So I was very close to that culture growing up. And in my cookbook, in my, in my cookbook and in other content I do, I cite all these experiences I had as a kid because sitting at uncle Joe and auntie Maria's table influenced me a lot. And in the opening intro of my cookbook, I talk about them. So, um, I was shaped by those types of experiences shaped by trips, going to Guyana shaped by sitting on the floor of my grandmother's apartment, grading coconuts for, for condiment dishes and stuff like that. Really, really, really exciting experiences. And I was just always obsessed with food still to this day. I'm going to go for lunch and I'm going to be eating this bowl of pho on Ossington with my buddy. And I'm going to be thinking about what am I making for dinner and so on and so forth. You know, I've always been that way as I got into cooking, uh, because my dad was always pushing me to go into business law, engineering medicine. I used to think it was a Brown thing, but the more I talk about it, it's a world thing. You know, it's a world thing. Uh, so I ended up going to culinary school at 24. And as I got into culinary school, I never looked back when I went to culinary and I started studying butchery and mother sauces and internal temperatures of meats and the Y and the culture of food, as opposed to studying standard deviation and accounting and economics and all the things that didn't interest me. It was just like, I had found my passion and I never knew I could go to school and study something that just was something that I would naturally go home and study at night or throughout the day. That never made sense to me. Um, I never once felt the feeling of being excited to wake up and go to school, you know, uh, ever until I went to culinary school. Um, but a very important thing happened earlier on in my life. I recognized, uh, the feeling food had on people, the community, like bringing family together around the table, like at uncle Joe and auntie Maria's where they fed us until we had to be rolled out of their place. When I was a kid, you know, it's just like courses kept coming. And I was like, okay, I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. I'm going to go back to school. And it just, it just never stopped. There was always way more food on the table. And like those experiences, there was a sense of togetherness and there was no real drama, you know, like I've sat at tables around the world with people who I didn't speak their language. And we have a whole conversation through body language and smiling. Right. And it's a really, really beautiful thing. Um, but there's a nurturing aspect, uh, an unconditional love and like cooking with intention, like all these beautiful principles. Like when I'm cooking for you, uh, I get to look after you. I get to take care of you. And I have like Seva on my arm. It's like in Sanskrit, but it translates to selfless service. And I'm a big fan of that for a lot of my life, bro. I would do things, uh, for public recognition. And the more anonymously I do it now, uh, or I try to do it that way. It's the more fulfilling it is, man. It's like, it's like give with your right hand. So anonymous anonymously that your left hand doesn't even know it like that selfless. It'll take away that. Praise and recognition component. And then, you know, practice the humility and the ego deflation. So, yeah, I love being in this industry because food is popping off these days, but it's so dynamic. If I study food 24 hours a day for the rest of my life, I'll probably scratch way less than 1% of it. It's amazing to think about. And I get to take care of people, man. Like my girlfriend is the greatest thing. One of the greatest things that's ever happened to me. Um, we started getting very close earlier this year and, and we're going ring shopping and we're doing a lot of fun stuff. Like big things are happening. Um, and we spent so much time together, but what I love most about her is like how family oriented she is, um, how she calls me out on all my bullshit, which I hate, but she calls me out on my shit, bro. And it makes me feel like a kid. Uh, but I'm getting better at being less avoidant with her in those situations. So she's teaching me a lot about myself and how to effectively communicate and how to build something and nurture something with a partner. Um, but the reason why I'm telling you all this is because like, I just love cooking for her. I'm good at it. Right. Um, I'm decent at it. And, uh, I love being able to cook for people. So at a very young age, um, I learned that, you know, I can nurture and look after people by cooking. Cause my mom did it for me and auntie Maria did it for me. And, you know, uncle Joe would take me out back. And then I remember when you'd pull down the salami, he's slicing the salami with a shaking hand. You know, I remember all these things. Uh, and, and yeah, like I found a really beautiful career, uh, in food and I'm just so passionate about it. And I would have lost it, man. If I didn't get my shit together and the crazy thing too, what do drugs make you do? Not eat. So it's like the thing that was dominating in my life and the thing that I, I just prized so much, like the drugs, they took away the thing that mattered to me most, that gave me the most passion that gave me the most fulfillment. It's so sick, man,
Speaker 2to think about the irony of it. Right. It's so ironic. Um, and I can think about so many nights where, uh, yeah, just like that plate of, you could have made me anything, bro. And I would just, I, well, I kind of want candy instead because that dopamine is so low because of all the, the drug use that nothing looks compelling to me. I couldn't even stomach
Speaker 1candy. I couldn't stomach anything. We would, we would force down protein shakes just to survive. Right. Yeah. Just gagging on protein shakes just to push through another day. Yeah. I love,
Speaker 2I love the idea too, of, um, uh, what did you, you said the left hand serves. Oh yeah. Give it the right. Like the left hand doesn't know that anonymously. Yeah. It's like not with no expectations of anything in return. Uh, no praise, no recognition, no expectation. Yeah, exactly. And that is service of its, in of itself, right? Selfless service. Um, that definitely contributes to your recovery program. And it's like, I'm going to show up no matter what, and I'm not going to respect any praise or results. And, uh, when I'm doing those things, I'm not thinking about my problems, right? I'm not thinking about my shit from yesterday or tomorrow, or I'm kind of, there's like a, a, a, a mind
Speaker 1fullness involved in cooking. Yeah. As you're talking, I'm thinking about myself and it's like a lot of my, a lot of my like character defects, bro. And a lot of my past behaviors, it's all like self-seeking selfish behavior, bro. It's like, just so it's like always like me, me, me, me, me, me, me. Oh, it's always like me, me, me, me, me. Uh, which is why these things like the being of service to others and selflessly, it just constantly keeps taking me out of myself, bro. You know? And that's why I show up here and that's why I'm showing up tomorrow. And that's why I was there on Friday. It's like, I keep putting myself out there. I was thinking about it, driving to that meeting on Friday. I posted to Instagram. I'm like, imagine Friday night, 8 30 AM guest speaker. And I'm sharing my, my, my story of hope, strength, and courage at a meeting. This is not what my Friday nights looked like. I checked in on Instagram as well, because I'm just in this zone right now, where I need to be, where I'm sitting on the dock at 7 45 AM in Muskoka showing the background. This is not what Sunday mornings used to be like, like we know what we were doing on Sunday mornings. And that wasn't it jumping into a therapy. Session, you know, sipping some coffee at 7 45 AM. So I'm just super grateful to, to, to be in the place that I am today. And I just need to keep getting out of myself and putting myself in situations that are uncomfortable because the old way of thinking is not, doesn't want me to be in those places. Yeah. I'm thinking about the, uh, the, the blinds that I'm peeking out of on
Speaker 2Sunday mornings. The people I'm looking through in the hotel room, that, that was my Sunday
Speaker 1morning, bro. Like I'm my old condo. I would think I would see the flicker of someone walking by and I'm just fixated on that for hours. I remember when I first came in and people started
Speaker 2to talk about that stuff. And I was like, Oh my God, thank God. I'm not, I'm not crazy. Like this
Speaker 1is a normal thing, right? I'm not terminally unique. I thought I had super hearing, bro. You know, I could hear someone coming from a mile away and no one was ever there.
Speaker 2And you get to a point too, where, you know, that no one's there, but you're like, I just, I just, there's this little bit of like, maybe they are. I didn't get to that point. Always there. Every time. Oh man. I appreciate you so much. Thank you. Uh, thank you for coming down, bro. I appreciate it. Um, let's end with this. If you, if you could say someone, something to someone that's, uh, struggling right now, either getting their passion started or maybe getting sober, what would you say to that person? I re I get asked this every now and then,
Speaker 1and like, I really wish I could, I part of me wants to have like a more like prepared response for this. But I'll just like, kind of speak from the heart, I guess things, things that kind of work for me. me. And, and I think I might've been a little bit all over the place, but like, I just kind of go on tangents and I talk, but I think the best thing that I could say to that is like, if I could just talk to my younger self, cause I can only speak from my experience and my journey. Right. But if I could go back and talk to my younger self, I would tell myself how worth it I am. I would tell myself to stop caring so much what people thought about me. I put so much power. I took so much power from myself and gave it to other people. And, and your opinion of me dominated my behaviors and my actions. Right. Um, this too shall pass is also another one because when I'm, when someone, when I was in early recovery, I saw no hope for myself. I'm like, I can't continue this. And, and, and I can't keep showing up this way at meeting. Like, I don't want to be due. I don't want to be here. I don't, I don't want to go there. I don't want to feel everything. And like, it just seems so daunting, which is why we say one day at a time. So practice one day at a time and practice this too shall pass. Because if you asked me a day or 30 days into recovery or 60 days or 90 days into recovery, if I'll be sitting in this chair right now, I would have told you, no, absolutely not. So don't get too far ahead of yourself. You know, this too shall pass. And, um, don't be afraid to reach out. Yeah. You got to put a hand out and
Speaker 2say, I need help. Yeah. I still need help. Yeah. Yeah. Help. Yeah. Um, amazing bro. What's next for you and where can we find you? Yeah. So I appreciate it.
Speaker 1And again, thank you for having me. Um, there was something that caught my attention about what you were doing. It's very real and very raw. Uh, there was no frills about it. And I, and I love that. Um, yeah. At chef Devin D E V A N. I'm on Instagram, Tik TOK, chef Devin Rajkumar on Facebook at chef Devin official on YouTube. I'm really easy to find. Um, I like to stay super at it. I like to say, uh, I like to stay super active. Actually, we didn't talk too much about the thing, which we're going to say for next time. Cause that's a big part of my story. Uh, there's more things I want to say there. Uh, but yeah, I'm, I'm all over the place. I'm really easy to find super active. Um, what's next. I have a really cool show, two shows coming out on gusto TV. It's a food focused streaming platform and it's my first ever show. It's called global street eats with chef dev. It's coming out in October, free app gusto TV and the holiday special. Um, and yeah, uh, I'm popping up at a queen West in a month. I'm always doing pop-ups in the city. You know, Gianluca Ruggieri, he's a very popular local Italian. We've done a bunch of stuff together. Um, so there's lots of cool things happening. Um, just follow me on social media to see what's happening. And, uh, and yeah, like, uh, I think that's, that's really about it. I'm looking forward. We got to do this again. Amazing. Thank you. Thanks for listening.
Speaker 3Please help us grow the channel and like share and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
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