From Chaos to Clarity: How Structure Changed Bug’s Life

Welcome to Think Like a Dog Podcast where we explore dog behavior and psychology based training to help your dog achieve their full potential. Welcome back to Think Like a Dog Podcast and today we are doing it a little bit differently. We're going to talk about one of our rescue dogs that's currently in the best chance program. You may have heard us talk about them in other episodes. He's been with us for quite some time now. Bug was rescued from the DeCab County shelter. I believe it was 2023 if I'm not mistaken. We found out about him just scrolling through their dogs that they currently have. That's typically how we find our dogs. Either we have volunteers going the shelter and work with dogs 101 or just randomly scroll million eye until we find the dog. That's speaking to us through the screen and bug was one of those dogs. He was, I saw him and because little dogs typically they go faster when they're in the shelter system. They're the ones that are adopted quicker. I saw bug and I kind of put it in the back of my mind. Weeks later, I saw bugs little photos still there and I asked him about them. I said, why is this dog still what's going on? In several weeks, I think it's been almost a month since his photo has been up his profile. The adoption coordinator there said, well, he's been really sick. He has kennel coughs, so he's been excluded from the adoption floor. Those are the only notes I can see on him. The shelter has hundreds of dogs. They're coming in. They're coming out. We don't get a lot of information from the staff regarding the shelter dogs. Not because they're mean or they don't want to know more about the dog, but they seriously do not have the time. It's too many dogs, especially in our counties here in Georgia. It's a crisis all the time. Bug was one of those dogs where the only notes she had was he had kennel cough. He was excluded. He wasn't up for adoption because of how sick he was. She did accept him to come into our program for us to pull him into our rescue. Again, I knew nothing about bug. When they took him out of the kennel, he was really sick. Most of the shelter staff didn't even know he was there because he was extremely quiet. Bug is the type of dog that you put him in a crate and you can forget about him. A lot of times he'll just be quiet and you forget bug is there. He was in this little excluded room. He's super small. He's in the back of the kennel. When we took him out of that kennel, shelter staff said, where did this dog come from? People were surprised that he was even there. This little miniature snauser, pure bread miniature snauser, was in my arms. Somebody was taking care of him. I don't know how they were doing that because seriously, he was underweight. You could see his bones and his nose was just full of discharge. Oh my gosh. You couldn't even see his nose. He almost had pneumonia, right? Or he did have pneumonia. He did have pneumonia. When we took him out of the crate, he was severely underweight. His nose, this charge was so bad, you couldn't even see his naso openings. We just took him in, we took care of him, we found him a foster, placed him in a foster home immediately after pulling him. Obviously after that care and everything else, he started in antibiotics. He had a really severe kennel cough, which later developed into pneumonia. So his lungs were really inflamed. I mean, he couldn't even, you could see his little body like fighting to breathe. So that went on for, I would say about a month after or longer after we pulled him. He was just battling this really severe case of kennel cough. And then later on, we started to see him get better slowly but surely. But during that time where he went through all of this sickness period, we had a foster that was really interested in adopting another foster, not the foster he was with. They really wanted a little dog. They fostered with us before, but they saw bugs profile. They were interested in him. And I let them know I'm like, hey, he's still getting better. I don't know much about his personality. He's very sweet. Like he's a good dog. He does great with us, but you know, he's still healing. They were okay with that. They took him in to their house. A few weeks later, they decided to complete the adoption. After that, everything went well. Great. He was getting along with the resident dog. They had no issues. It was sending me videos of them playing and having a great time. Everything was great. Until one day, I got a call that bug and the resident dog got into a fight. They were not in the room. All they heard them getting into the scuffle. They ran into the room. Bug had bit the other dogs' leg. And they're both small dogs. And the other dog had to go to the vet. It was, you know, had to get a drain put in. It was a pretty bad bite. The parents tried to split them up, put the hand in the middle, got bit in the hand also. They were just very confused. They didn't know what to do. And that's when we talked about that going more into the training, what was going on at home, the structure, what was happening. And there wasn't a lot of structure in place because this couple, as sweet as they were, they were amazing foster. There was really sweet, but they really wanted a dog to be playmate with their current dog. And they really wanted the dog that would be cool with everybody and everything and just kind of hang out. Because that's what their current dog was too. Right. So they just were wanting kind of a second version of their current dog, which makes sense. Exactly. And they wanted a buddy for the current dog and they wanted them just to be buddies. But as we got to know bug, we saw that he wasn't that type of dog. He is a dog that she just thrives with structure. And he did so well when they had a trainer come in and work with them. A Connor would go and work with them several times. And Connor would always give me feedback and say, bug, kill it. He learned the loop. He would did the walk. I mean, he did great. I let dad know everything they needed to do. But then because they couldn't really apply that same structure, we always were talk about in the podcast. They try to do things their way. So they would have a little bit more freedom and they would try to do the place work, but we wouldn't really stick to that. So then they start, they signed him up for a reactive dog positive reinforcement training. So this is a type of training program where they go in groups. They work a lot with treats. So it's all treat based. You had to carry around a little bag of treats. That's the training. So we talked about that and that's fine. Once you adopt the dog from us, we want you to succeed. So that's why we offer so many sponsored training sessions. We work with you. But if you want to do things your way, that's fine. It's your dog, right? So they started to do this positive reinforcement training with bug periodically. Bug would come and stay with me because they would go out of town. They would come back. They said he was doing really great with the training, but the reactivity on leash was still there when they walked him and seeing people out of that because they live in the city. They, you know, the street they live in, you would see cars people walk by. They would say he would see it and start barking. And if people came over, they would put him in the crate and he was still barking the crate and get really ramped up. And the crate would be hard to get him to calm down. But otherwise great. I mean, in the training, he was awesome killing that, but in real life, it was hard. It wasn't like he was the same dog in the positive reinforcement training, getting all these treats. Then they called me one day and they said, you know, we need a talk. I don't think this is going to work out. We're expecting a baby. And we had other bites happen. We didn't tell you about because we really were thinking we were going in the right direction. Now with the baby in the mix, it's going to be hard and we really don't see him adjusting really well to that. And now it was totally fine. The conversation was great. It was no hard feelings. I knew I kind of knew this was coming because we kept in touch. But I don't like to force anybody into anything. I don't like to make make anybody feel bad. I mean, they told me about the bite happened. The other bite happened when they were trying to work him through the vacuum reactivity. They had him on a leash. The dad was vacuuming right in front of him. Mom was next to him. Just good boy. Good boy. Treats, treats, treats, treats. Dad is vacuuming. As soon as she went to to pet him, he was so amped up. Although he wasn't barking. He wasn't reacting. He was still amped up. She started petting him. He bit her hand. Yeah. I also think we agreed that bug would not do well with a baby in the home. That's another reason where we were like, we don't think that this would be bug would not have fun. Bug would not have fun with that. He wouldn't. And he can't look any dog is capable of anything. It really depends on how much work you can put into it, how much structure and how rigid you're going to be with this certain structure you need to succeed. Whenever people ask us about our dogs, can they do something? Yes. Any dog can do anything. But like we talked about in previous episodes, you have to keep in mind your dog's personality. And the hardest thing is that the dog is going to be able to work through the dog. Like we talked about recall. You said, yeah, with brick, it's one thing with Kemper. It's another thing. I work with them the same. They get the same structure. They get the same training. But I need to work a little bit harder with brick because he's a little bit more. Opposite. I need to work way harder with Kemper. With natural recall. Exactly. You need to work harder with Kemper because of his personality versus bricks, you have to put into play like what is your dog's personality? I feel like because bug, you haven't gotten to that part of the story yet, but bug ended up staying with Jillian for a long time. My lead assistant trainer. So I think if Jillian had a baby and own bug, I think that that would be totally fine. But I do think that even with that, there is a higher risk based on who bug is and what his thresholds are with his environment. And who Jillian is, she lowers that risk down a lot. It's not as low as it is with brick, right? Like, so brick has a much lower risk level around kids than, than. Yes, Bug is absolutely a product of his environment. And I'm not saying that to blame his old owners, his old owners, that's not the life that they wanted with their dog. They did not want to have to do all of the structure and all of this, you know, all of these skill building things. And they wanted to just be able to repeat the same relationship that they had with their original dog. And I think that there are dogs out there that you can do that with. Bug was just not one of them. It's just he just wasn't a dog that could take that. And that's okay. So that's like nobody's fault. It's not that they did anything wrong, bugged did anything wrong. It's just they weren't a match. I think also when you have a dog as you're living with them, that's not the life you thought you were going to have with your dog. A lot of people spend time trying to change the dog into the dog they thought they were going to be. Instead of accepting the dog for who they are, like we talk about, keep in mind you still have to work through those. Things, those issues, but you have to take into account this dog needs this type of structure, this type of living environment. And then you have to be honest with yourself, can I offer that? Is it fair to the dog exactly now? If you have a dog who, you know, then you have to go into a different perspective. What is the opportunity this dog has to be adopted elsewhere? Because then you have to put your feelings aside and say, you know, a dog like bug, he has our support. He has a program he can back go back into. He's not going to go back to the shelter system. They're not dumping him in the shelter. But then you have a dog that you adopt him as a puppy. You see, it's not going to be the way he thought it was going to be. Then you have to say, okay, how adoptable is this dog? What are his chances of finding another home? You can't just say this dog is not the dog for me. It's not the thought of the life I wanted. Let me take him back to the shelter. He'll find somebody else eventually. It doesn't work like that. Like the shelters and all try really hard to find all the dogs homes. I mean, they work so hard, all the volunteers. We have volunteers from our foundation who volunteers at local shelters. It's heartbreaking. It's difficult. They just go through a lot. So especially dogs with behavioral issues, unfortunately. And that's why we preach so much on preventing the behavioral issues. Whereas we have had plenty of dogs like Luna, who was our standard poodle, who was given to us because the owners had medical issues. Luna was adopted in a week or two, right? So those are the dogs where that makes sense. But Luna had no behavioral issues. Was already spayed up today and on vaccine, a vaccination, crate trained able to walk on a leash, great with kids like all of these things. It was easy to place her into another home. So there are certain situations where it is really easy to rehome that dog. But most of the time, those are people who have done all of the prevention work that dogs entire life. And so they brought them home. Exactly. So with Bug, we, you know, because our best chance program, we are a training program. I'll call it that because our, I tried to explain this to everyone. We're not just a rescue program where we're pulling all the dogs and placing them into homes that, you know, foster homes that apply any foster homes. We want our fosters to be very educated and have the resources and take advantage of the resources we offer. We have our, we try to get our fosters into the mere image, K9 workshop. We try to get them to go to do hands-on sessions. We do as much as we can to educate them and to give them the confidence they need to work with our dogs. You know, we really want to set our dogs up for success because mere image is supporting the best chance program every step of the way. So any dog that doesn't work out in that home, their team also has to deal with it, right? Connor, Jill, Eastern, Millie, Sarah. Everybody is involved. We try to make sure that our dogs are set up for success. And they are also a reflection of the mere image, K9 programs that they offer. So with Bug, once, you know, every dog that we get adopted out through our program, they learn they get all these resources. We give all the resources we can. And with Bug, because he went through these to this home and he went through this positive reinforcement training that didn't really work out, they said that they were really, they was like, "Oh, he came a long way. He did really well. You know, we can see a big change on him. But when he came back to us, he was still having a lot of issues. I would say from the last time I saw him, from the first time I saw him to the last time I saw him, his risk level for biting another dog has gone way down. He was way more prone to want to bite or back off another dog when I first met him to when I met him or most recently saw him. I think his human level has always been low. He's always been a low. He's not going to just walk up and bite you. He's a friendly dog. But he has certain things and he, and if he gets in certain mindsets, it has been kind of across the board. Unless you're about to tell me something different, you know, that you feel like it's much lower. But I think here, we don't necessarily, well, we can't really tip toe around those things. Like he has to be part of the pack. So we saw more and more of those things where he was like willing to bite. And then I think at his home, they may be tiptoed around these things a little bit more. And so I think that they didn't see it quite as much or at least to the severity that it can be. Yes. And the reason why we want to talk about bug today is because many dogs are like bug out there. Right? They have so much potential. They're so good. They're so smart. And then they have these situations where they have had bite histories. It's never random. It's not a dog that has neurological issues. It's bites that happen because dogs can bite. They will bite. They have the ability to buy any dog can. And there is a explanation behind it, right? We understand why it happened. When I talk to adopters about bug, it's very hard for me to describe him in a way that's fair to him because he is so smart. He's been fostered by me now for last couple months, I would say maybe two months. He's going to Jill now pretty soon and stay with her for another two months. And between me and between Jill, he's done great with Jill. Jill was taking him to the pack and he was just dropped lead walking around with the dogs. And he she has a cat. And I feel like I could very easily walk in Jill's house with bug out and he would not go for me. Right? Like, so that was definitely a situation that was the product of he believed he owned that home, you know? But that doesn't mean that there's no risk. So I get what you're saying. It's how do we explain bug in a way that's fair to bug? But it's also as being transparent between Jill and between me. Bug has been a dog that has thrived with structure. And I tell Jill and Millie all the time he said, "Bug is the example of a dog that really just thrives with structure." Like, if you're going to tell anybody about a dog that really needs this type of structure that we talk about in the podcast, that is bug. Bug needs the place work. He needs the crate. He enjoys it. He enjoys it. It's not like you put bug on a structured walk. Like a lot of people even say, "But when my dog wears the loop, you know, they look so sad." No. And even one of our. Bug is opposite of that, yeah. Yeah, he loves it. Like, this dog enjoys being told what to do and showing him what to do. And it's so fun because you can just see his little eyes sparkle. Like, what do you want me to do now? And he's genuinely. That's another thing. Like, he's genuinely fun to work with. He's a schnauzer. So they're bred to be able to handle a lot of different obedience commands and precision. And that shows in bug. He really loves learning new things. And so watching Jillian who really, Jillian loves working with obedience, work with bug. They're both really enjoying themselves. So finding a home where that person genuinely loves training and doesn't believe structure is a negative by any means, he can seize the value that that structure can bring to a dog and specifically bug. That would be the best home for him. Because he, I mean, bug, he lights up when you're doing obedience commands with him. Exactly. And I was going to say a lot of people think the structure is a bad thing. It's like, well, I have to put my dog through this. They have to sleep in the crate. Like, they have to be on place. A lot of people look at that as something that's punishment in a way or you're just being really strict with your dog and you're just depriving them of all this happiness. That is the opposite with bug. Like you do this and he is thriving at our house. He's been on place. He has slept on the crate. I mean, he, we followed the structure as much as we could. Now the structure I offer is less than what Jill can offer, right? Because Jill is like really on top of things. I mean, she really works with them through every single behavior, every feeling. When he came back to me from Jill, I saw a huge difference from the first day I got him back from his previous home because I fostered him for a brief period of time before he went to Jill. Then he came back to me. She said, you know, as you see him about to do something wrong or make the wrong decision, like barking at the window or going for somebody that walks through the door, you just correct him before he does that. Just go, uh, and he is really sensitive to that. And he gets it. He gets it. Like the other day, my dad was vacuuming. He's now staying with my mom and dad and he's vacuuming and bugged. This does not like the vacuum, right? That's his history. He did get much better with it. Like I was able to vacuum a crate that was right next to him. And I saw him about to do it every, you know, every time we vacuum at the end of the day, saw him about to kind of go for it. And I just said, uh, uh, and he settled back down. Not he's definitely still eyes on it. Like, and that's where I, having the, the knowledge of the like dog psychology, I absolutely would not pet that dog when he's eyes on the vacuum and, you know, still thinking about trying to kill the vacuum, but not actively acting on it, right? I'm not, I'm not going to interact with that dog. whatsoever. And that's probably what happened. I mean, bug is also the kind of dog he has days. He has really good days. And then he has some days where he's just not interested. Yeah, he's much better with the vacuum, but not not to a point where I feel like he either needs or would benefit from from affection in that moment. No, and that's where my dad was about to vacuum in. My dad went, uh-uh, as he's, I mean, bug is loose in the house. He has the vacuum in his hand. He has a choice. He could go for the vacuum. He can walk away from the vacuum at that moment. Bug made a choice. He walked away from the vacuum. Yeah, good. Went upstairs and then he just stood behind my mom. Good. And he stood behind and he was very amped up still like you said in his mind. He wanted to kill the vacuum still, but he made a choice to walk away from his biggest trick, one of his biggest triggers and just stand behind my mom, which, you know, he saw comfort comfort just being there behind her. Which is the reward is the reward. And at that moment, and I explain, maybe my parents are not, they don't really know much about the structure. They know. Your mom does more. Yeah, she does. But I told him, I said, Hey, just watch his body language. Don't he's not a dog that's asking for affection all the time. But don't, don't reach down and give him affection until he asked for it. There are moments where he's asking you for affection. And it's the right moment. Everything's calm. You know, you guys are relaxing. He's not processing anything. That's the big thing with bug is if he's in the middle of processing something. And right after that, a pretty big decision for him to walk away from a vacuum. That's not the moment to add more things for him to process. Yes. It's kind of like you being overstimulated, right? Like you have the hundred things on your mind. You're cleaning and you're doing. And then Ozzy goes to try to hug you. Oh my god. Yeah, exactly. For me, I've had big reactions. Exactly. And I feel like a lot of people can relate. It's like you don't want affection in those moments where you're already overstimulated trying to process things, get things done. And then somebody comes and tries to hug you and touch you. And you're like, no, I don't want this. Even though the intention is in the right place, right? Like the intention of his previous owners was to reward him and to comfort him. But in that moment, he was really, he had enough on his plate. He couldn't handle anybody else's interaction in that moment. And I think that's where we look at dog training as like this recipe and the dog needed to know that we thought he was doing the right thing in order to repeat that behavior. But what if he just felt okay in that moment? What if he just goes, okay, I learned that I don't have to go and kill this vacuum. And I'm actually safe behind this mom or behind this, this human, my foster mom here, right? What if that is more of a reward, an organic reward to him than our affection? Like to me, that's, that's the problem with dog training is that we think that the dog is doing everything to either please or displease us. And that our opinion on what the dog is doing is going to change what the dog does in the next time. The dog doesn't care about our bug does not care one bit about our opinion of him chasing the vacuum, right? He doesn't, he's not not doing it because he's going to get affection from us. He's not doing that because we gave him a better alternative. We told him he didn't have to and he could go here in turn his brain off by somebody's side. So I think that's where we have to switch our mindset is it's not about us. It's about what other options do they have? He's the prime example of what structured training provides the level comfort and reward that comes from structured training in itself. And when I say training is just a structured life, right? It's just a routine. It's just giving him direction. He does not need the pets. He does not need the treats. He needs direction. And if you're a human who does need the pets and does need the treats, bugs not your dog. No, yeah. And when we've gotten applications for him and I see that the some people say I want an affectionate, affectionate dog. I want a friendly dog. Bug can be all of those things, right? I don't want to put him in a box and say he can't, he can. But to describe him and put him in a, in a category of he's affectionate and he's friendly all the time. That's not bugged. He has his personality. Yeah. I would say yeah. Bug's personality is a black cat who joined the military. You know what I mean? He's very, he's not standoffish by any means, but he's not, he's not like in your face, pet me, pet me, pet me. Like he is, he will be friendly. Yeah, absolutely. But he is, he doesn't need your approval to feel okay about himself. And then he genuinely enjoys working and structure. Like he's more of a cat than a dog to me. That is true. I like that. I'm going to start using that. Okay. A black cat who joined the military or just any, I guess any color cat. I just think of the black cats as like the ones on Halloween that are a little bit standoffish. He's like a little general. Like he loves direction. He loves to work. The command training is fun for him. It's not like a training where you can use that to work through a reaction. It's a training where he genuinely has fun to learn how to do down. Stay sit like he gets it. But with bug, he is like I always tell Joe this. I said, hey, I don't know, like I'm trying to figure out what is the ideal family for him. And I always say, my, I put this in my head, I said, I think that I do family for bug is who you would think is your favorite client. Like your favorite client as a trainer. Yeah. Like that is the person I want bugs family to be. Is that person that's asking questions wanting to learn attending classes going on the pack walks? Like they're excited to do that. They're excited to learn. They want to take it a step further every time. They're always looking for challenges. That's the person that I think bug with right. But also knowing that person also has to know that within his life, he is likely to bite again. And that is okay. I mean, it's not the end of the world, right? It's just it doesn't mean that they're doing something wrong. It doesn't mean, you know, hopefully that for that person doesn't mean that they need to return him that, you know, I've owned dogs where I knew this is not the last time you tried, you're going to try to bite me. And I'm not doing anything about it. Like I'm not going to send you back. Like we're going to work on training. But this that is going to be part of bugs journey in the future. It just will be whether it's another dog or a human. Hopefully the severity will be much less. But he has a lower threshold for for what it takes for him to bite. He just does. And I'd rather somebody be like, okay, he's a little dog. It's not going to be that big of a deal. And I'd rather that person continue to live the life that that you know, he deserves rather than tip toe around him. Because I think that's going to create a higher likelihood for him to bite. If that makes any sense. Makes a lot of sense. There was a potential candidate for bug that I really thought it was going to work out. She got it. But when we were talking on the phone, I described bug. I did the best I can. And on our conversations when we're talking to people for adoption applicants, you try to get it all within a conversation. Sometimes it's too much information for that one conversation for everybody to grasp. So I said, you know, bug is type of dog week muzzle trained him. That's like a benefit for him. Like he likes them. Like he doesn't care about the muzzle, right? He has no issues. Is she jail worked really hard on muzzle training. Oh, yeah, Jill muzzle trained him beautifully. Yeah. The muzzle is neutral. That care about it. He's not fighting it off his face. He's fine. He's living his best life. He can drink water if he wants. He doesn't behave any differently with it on or with it off. Like Marty does. She's still we're all still struggling with muzzle training. And I explained that to her. I said, Hey, when we schedule the meeting greet, I explained to her. I said, I'm going to bring him. He's going to be wearing his muzzle. I'll have his loop on. I don't expect anything from this meeting greet where he's going to be going up to you asking for pets, just being happy. Go lucky. That's not who bug is. He's a black guy who joined the military. Exactly. But he is totally fine. Otherwise, I explained to her his his behavior, how he would react. He has certain reactivities in certain environments. And we chose a really busy coffee shop to meet at, which is fine. Like he can totally handle it. It's a coffee shop that tons of people go to their dogs, their kids, there's everything going on. So we went there. And of course, I got out of the car and went up to meet her. Bug is amazing. He is like extremely good. We're walking. I'm walking him. People are coming up. They're like, he's so cute. Oh my gosh. He's the cutest thing. And he has this little muzzle on. And he's just like sitting right next to me and just taking it all in and not one reaction came out of this dog, not even trying to. He's just sitting down, looking around at some points, like people reached down and put their hands right in front of his face. And he just sniffed it and he was fine. And previously in his like in his previous home, that would have never, that would have been hell on earth. No. So he's totally fine. And I'm good because he has his muzzle on. Can't stop everybody from coming up to him. But he's doing great. So everything I told her on the phone kind of seemed like I was over reacting because he was doing so good. She was like, does he have to use the muzzle his entire life? Like how long would you say, like the muzzle has to be a thing? I said, forever. Why not? Like he loves it. He's fine with it. Why not? Like I, my dogs that are fine with the muzzle, I rather put the muzzle on them, even if they don't need it. My dog. Especially because Bug is not, he's not predictive in that way. Like it's not, I mean, short of the vacuum. The vacuum is always going to be probably something that we can bet. Bug will have a feeling about. So it is helpful when it's somebody other than just like his owner and him muzzle him because we don't, we're not, we're not entirely sure what's going to set him off that. It is very clear body language wise when, when you should not touch bug, right? When you should not reach out and give affection. The problem is, is that the average person is not going to understand that body language. They're going to see a really cute little schnauzer and they're going to just walk up. You already said it and pet it without ever even caring about the body language. So the muzzle prevents people. prevents bug having this risk from another person making a mistake and not checking or not being knowledgeable on the body language that he's showing. When it comes to dogs like bug and, you know, there are many dogs like bug out there and unfortunately even in rescue, one bite can be life ending for dogs regardless of what led to that bite. We want people to understand that it's not unfair to provide structure, to muzzle train your dog. You're allowing them to see the world. You're allowing them to have a life when you do these things with them. What we had a lot of issues with the previous home, regardless of how much love affections spoiled, they spoiled him. They were amazing. They just didn't see the structure as a reward. They saw it as punishment. So the great, the place work, the loop, it was all kind of like, do I have to, like, he's going to be miserable living a life like that. He's not. That's what helps him thrive. That's what helps me take him to a coffee shop and sit there and watch the world go by with him and he's totally fine. I'm confident he's confident. We have people come over to our house all the time. Ozzie's here. He comes in and now he has, we have contractors. We have people come in. Are there reactions that come from him? Yes, but I can redirect him and I have the confidence to make sure that he doesn't react from those feelings that he's feeling, right? That he's not running up to people and trying to bite them. These things that we do with our dogs is to help them live a fulfilling life and to have a dog like bug or a dog that has feelings and they have a personality. Like, you can't just put a dog in a box and say, I want all dogs to be happy, go lucky and you can fix them with training. All dogs can be happy, go lucky as long as you train them. That is not true. Training will not fix or change your dog. I try to explain this to people. If you want a dog like bug who is smart, who is capable, who loves structure, who loves training, will be your best friend, will be your partner. You can go on hikes with them. You can hang out with them. You cannot put them in a box and say, if I do this, it's going to turn them into this other dog that I can let off leash and run into a dog park. That would never be. That's why we have such a problem figuring out what is the ideal home for him. Look like, and I think, as we're talking about this, I'm thinking the perfect person for bug is looking for a teammate, not a child, not a companion, not something to fix, you know, comfort them. It is they want a teammate to go and accomplish things together to go and do stuff with, but not they don't need necessarily anything from bug. They're not trying to fix anything by adopting bug. They are just trying to have a person or have another animal that they can go and collaborate with. Yes, exactly. I think being that person that is willing to accept him for who he is, personality-wise, willing to take on challenges with him. I think with dog training or in rescue in general, the more I got into rescue, the more I learned about dogs. We see dogs as individuals. The more you learn about dogs, you see them as individuals. We grow up thinking dogs are these fluffy little things, they're these little creatures that are just meant to be your best friend and they have to be super capy go lucky and life is supposed to look a certain way with them. But that's not how it is. With dogs, you have to be able to see them as an individual. They have feelings. They have good days and bad days. Exactly. You have to learn how to read their body language. Sometimes they don't want to be touched. They don't need the pets. They don't need the sleeping and bed with you. They don't need to be in the couch with you. That's not a reward for some dogs. We are not looking for a dog lover for a bug. We would prefer somebody who respects dogs more than somebody who just is obsessed with dogs. That is specifically for bug. He needs somebody who respects him, understands him, will work with him, will problem solve with him because he loves to do that. But we don't need you to be obsessed with him. He doesn't want you to be obsessed with him. I made a video the other day showing him in the gym with me because usually when he's with me and I go in the gym, it's in our basement. I just have him in the gym with me by himself so he can have a little bit more freedom to do his thing. And all he wants to do is lay in his little bed and chew on a bone if he has a bone. So that's all he does. But that's his moment where he's away from the other dogs. The other dogs are put away. And I made a video of him coming up because from time to time, he'll come and check in on me and he'll put his head on my hand. Try to get me to scratch him. And it's very clear what he wants. I got that moment. But if I do it in a time that he's not up for it, he's going to shake it off. He's like, no, I don't want this right now. And it's very clear. The moments he wants to be upset. The moments he doesn't. And it's so funny because at certain times he's like, hey, how you doing? Like give me a little scratch. And then if it happens when he doesn't want it, he's like, no, I'm okay. And he walks away. He's like, goes back to his bed and he's just laying down. Now that I think about it though, it is not like that with Jill. He always wants affection from Jill. And because I think she's she represents to him, okay, we get to go and do things now. This person makes sense to me, right? So it's it's not this like, what am I going to get from you? Is this something that I feel like bug walks around a little unsure of all of the relationships that he has. But with Jillian and Marty, because of the amount of work that Jillian has put into that, he's not unsure about that relationship because I have seen what you're talking about with bug with me. But I now that I'm like remembering him and Jillian interacting, it's not like that. So he could be what you were imagining owning a dog is looking like, but it requires you to put in a lot of work and to give bug what he needs out of that relationship so that you can get what you want out of the relationship. That's true. Exactly. I mean, with me, I have so so many dogs here at this house. And he sees the chaos, right? Like he's on place. The other dogs are running around. Sometimes Max puts his head up the window and bugs right there and he gets so pissed and I'm trying to correct him. And it's like, all right, we're trying to do things here. He knows he feels that he's just like, he is such a special dog. And there are so many bugs out there, right? There's so many other dogs that are so special and just requires that that person that understands them and creates that relationship. We get emails from people all the time saying, I'm having issues with my dog. I may have to re-home him. He bit. He did this. And we always see potential in those relationships if only people would understand the structure we talk about is not punishment. You're not taking anything away from your dog by providing this structure, you know, taking them not letting them sleep with you in bed, not having them on the couch, walking with them and allowing them, you know, teaching them to be by your side and giving them this guidance. This is all a reward. And really talks about it all the time. What is the reward in this type of training? The reward is the feeling they're getting of confidence, of safety, of not having to worry about the world around them. That is the reward. That is why this type of relationship-based training is not a treat-based training. You do not need the treats. The treat is the feeling. And it's so clear with bug. It's so clear because that feeling he gets, like you talked about the feeling he gets with Jill, that is his reward. He feels so much safety with Jill that he feels like I can have this comforting time with you. I can cuddle with you. I know what to expect from this relationship. You make me feel safe all the time and confident. You taught me so many things. I'm good. And Jill has a cat that's a lot like a dog. Yeah, exactly. Yes. And she has another dog, Marty, who is a lot like bug and he had bite history. A lot like bug without the drive. Marty doesn't have the same amount of like I want to learn and go and do. Marty is not a schnauzer and he doesn't act like one. He's just like a little teddy bear that will bite you from. Yeah, he will bite you. Yeah, if you're not on his good side. But also people listening to this are probably going to go, well, why doesn't Jill just adopt him? Flynn, Jill has Marty and she's still forming that relationship. And two, Jill really, really enjoys fostering our problem dogs. Bringing those dogs into her home and if she adopts bug, that's, you know, however many future dogs that we can take on that Jillian can help. And I think you and I are under the same understanding in Jillian as to that there is a home out there for bug. We just have to find it. Yes, exactly. We just want to set up our dogs for success. And in rescue, we get asked all the time, why don't you just keep this dog? Why don't you just keep, you know, we can. I mean, rust equal to stay with you. You have them for what? Two years, three years? Yeah. I mean, and the perfect home came like it does happen that unicorn person is out there. The perfect person is out there. So if you're fostering and you have a dog like this, don't lose hope. That person is out there. Just keep doing what you can for your dog. Keep learning, keep teaching them new things. I mean, everything we talk about in this podcast, it really works. It's truly so life changing for our dogs. We saw them go from different situations where like even Marty, he was adopted before. All these homes are great people. They just loved on them gave them whatever they needed. But what was missing was this structure we're talking about. And that is what transformed the life of these two dogs like Marty and Bug. They have had their lives transformed. Thumper, I would say is another one of those. Thumper. Because Thumper was adopted three times, right? Yes. Two times. And then his third one stuck. Exactly. And these dogs are dogs. All these homes that were talking about that didn't work out. They were not mean people. No, they were amazing people. We don't all the toys. We would we met them. We wouldn't give them to a mean person. And I'm talking about these people. They gave them everything. Like in Marty's home, he got all the toys, all the treats. One time the previous owner, she drove to Florida because he had such a huge reaction at the airport where he blew up in his carry on and she could not get through TSA or anything. So she just missed her flight and drove to Florida with him in order to take him. So I'm talking about the couple made, they made sacrifices but they just didn't see the structure as a reward. They didn't want to do it, right? Like they made huge sacrifices, just not the ones that were going to help the dog. Yes. And that's when you have to look into the bigger picture, like put your feelings aside. However you feel about the crate and however you feel about the leash and the lead and everything we talk about, put that put that to the side. Look at it, like I'm willing to learn. Let me do it. It's different. I don't agree with it. I think the dog is going to be miserable, but whatever. Just put your feelings to the side and do it and see that just try and come from it. Yeah. Exactly. Well, because Marty had that huge blow up at the airport and then what a few months ago, he sat in the middle of a huge crowd watching a barrel race, watching horses run really, really fast and people all right next to him. No reaction. Exactly. The same dog that had, I mean, Marty had like how many bites that he have? 20 what I was told 11. I don't know. And a lot of them were in the face. Yes. Yeah. And he's a little doctor. I mean, he's tiny, but he means it just just as much as Buck does. He does. And now this same dog that was living in a box, he was staying home, he couldn't have certain people come over, he couldn't go out, they couldn't walk him, they couldn't go in the airport with him. He's doing it all. He just, but that also took a long time. I mean, how long has Julian had it two years, a year and a half, two years? Yeah. Like it wasn't overnight. You know, I think if she had brought him to that barrel race or anything, if she brought him to the airport, right? Like I think right now he would actually be better than both of my dogs at the airport. I think he would be perfect at the airport. But I think if she had done that a month after she had adopted him, no way. Like I think it would have still been a struggle very much so the process isn't, it isn't tiring, right? It isn't like, it took two years. It was like so much, it was so difficult. It was like just life. They were just how you live with them there. Yeah. And she did it a certain way that provided that structure and safety. And it's not requiring extra work from you. I feel like it's more exhausting to do it the other way because now it's like, oh no, what am I going to do with bug if I have to go to Florida? Like, or Marty, if I have to go to Florida, it's now it's like, okay, well, we can just put him on the airplane. He's tiny, you know, he's not going to solve a problem. He's not going to cause any problems. You know, now Marty gets to go out in the world and do things and and be an actual dog, not, you know, this hostage that's in somebody's house. Yes. And it's like we always talk about it's all connected. Everything you do with your dog results into this relationship. So when when we talk about these podcasts, we're like, Hey, are you feeding in the crate? Like, that could play into this dog resource guarding the food or not eating the right time and they're kind of picking and choosing when they're going to eat like all these things connect together to result into how this dog behaves in different scenarios. So don't write off one thing because it's like completely, it looks like it's completely disconnected from this resource guarding issue. You're having with your dog all these little things result into these dogs that we're talking about today. That's able to go out and live this amazing life after having all these different issues they've dealt with that many dogs have lost their lives for. But these dogs, they have the support system and they're able to live happy fulfilling lives now and do things. I mean, I briefly said, you know, bug went on a hike and they went on a camping trip and Joe was sending me images. She's like, there was an awfully stag that charged at us and bug went right next to me. He chose to look away from that dog and go right behind me and just become like that is the dog that was having blowups at normal walks. Yeah, I'll leave. Yeah. This is the dog, you know, that is living this great life now. So we wanted to do this podcast today to talk about bug because he's been with our program for quite some time. Lots of people ask about bug. We post about him. We talk about him. We get lots of applications for him and we just don't think anybody really understands what he needs and who he is. And I think it's taken us talking this out. We had a completely different plan for this episode today. But right before we decided to just sort of talk bug out. So we could be a little bit more clear on how we present him to the world and what what people should apply for him and who shouldn't. And it's not a bad thing if he's not the dog for you, but be very aware of what what are you looking for when you go and apply for a dog. Exactly. And all of the applications that came in, we send a email. I now included descriptive information about each bite history that he had. It was a total four different scenarios. So once they adopted it said, Hey, these four incidents happen. It's explaining exactly what led up to it. Once they apply, not once they adopt. Okay. No, sorry. Just wanted to mix. That was important. Yes. Once they apply, I now have this document where I will send it over and said, Hey, this is what's going on. These are the can you hand to let like can you see yourself work, you know, working with a dog like this? All those people that apply? Nope. That's not what I'm looking for. That's fair. Hi. That's that's exactly, you know, exactly what I was hoping to hear is the truth and not being let on and then having things blow up. So we really want to find a home for bug that gets it, you know, like we talked about in our program, we offer sponsor training. So once you adopt from us, we are taking care of the training as many sessions as the team recommends. We are all in. And that will be with somebody who has lived with bug. Like it's not like a random trainer coming in to help you with somebody who has lived with bug and found success with bug like Jillian will be working with whoever adopts them. And exactly for the thing that you were saying about the applications, we don't want you to feel bad if bugs not your dog because he's not in danger. He's in a very safe place right now. He's here for as long as we need to be here. But we want to find him a home because we know that there's somebody out there that can really greatly improve his quality of life. Absolutely. And that's why in our best chance program, we are also not pulling so many dogs at once. We make commitments to these dogs for their lifetime. So if these dogs come back and the owner can keep them something comes up, we're not going to send them away. We're not going to say too bad deal with it, right? Like we're taking the dogs back. We're finding a way to help these families, these dogs, we're sponsoring training sessions, we're helping with the back care, whatever is the issue we are trying to solve it. So in our best chance program, we are offering this commitment first as long as the dog is here with us. And that's why we take it so seriously when we pull a dog into our program. All of the puppies we just adopted out. Yep. Or teenagers. You just received an update from one of them and it's, you know, we were just talking about it before we recorded like, you know, we're going to have to have some conversations and make some decisions now. But that wouldn't be surprising if we had one of the puppies of the litters that we used to have or that we had, you know, seven to nine months ago, if any of them got returned, that would not be surprising to either of us, which is another reason why Gillian does not want to adopt bug. We don't want to just take the dogs because if there is a better home, we know whenever anything goes wrong with all of these dogs, almost a hundred dogs that we've adopted out now, if any of them goes wrong, it's going to be one of us that has to take them on until they get re-home, which is exactly what happened with bug, exactly what happened with Marty, exactly what happened with Bear, like how many of these dogs have we, I mean, Thumper finally got adopted, but have we Sandy, you know, that this team, my team specifically have adopted because they were returned after a home. So that's why we do think with bug, he can find a place. We just have to figure out where it is. Yes, absolutely. So if you want to learn more about the Veshians program and are adoptable dogs, go to azaleesfoundation.org. You can also find the best chance program tab at mereimagek9.com. But if you have any questions, if you're interested in bug, please send us an email. Please do so through the foundation's website that way we can make sure it goes to the right person, our adoption coordinator, but do you want to add anything else, Millie? No, I mean, if you, if you are thinking of somebody that might be a good fit for bug, share this with them and tell them to apply, please. Yes, yes, awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us today and until next time. Make sure to follow us on Instagram at www.ThinkLikeAdogPodcast and follow @Mereimagek9 for training tips. If you have any questions, please reach out to us via email at [email protected].