From Car Park Crits to the Commonwealth Games w/Professional Cyclist Red Walters | #5

Speaker 1 Was always the case that you can do anything. You put your mind to, it's okay. I wouldn't even dare to dream about going to the Olympics. Now, I've got like a really good opportunity. If a manager is looking at two potential riders for the team, one guy's got the YouTube easy decisions, definitely bit lost for a while. In terms of identity, I probably could have gone to Oxford. I can still say I'll be markandjen it spread like that. Can't get inside line here to play soccer, you deserve to be here from one day, is all great. And next day, no, emails from no one. If I make like a tiny wrong adjustment, going to the barrier crash. We get hit by 50 Riders. How was it hard like me? Immediately knew I'd made a mistake. Don't start me about notion the feeling of going through, people's shouting, your name, and a crowd screaming, and the Flyers and the bells Speaker 2 unreal. So everyone and welcome back to another episode of the extra spective podcast. Today I am joined by Red. Walters is very kindly to agree agreed to come on to an episode. And as we've done with all them so far, we're going to start off by asking read how we know each other and how we came across each other originally. Speaker 1 Yeah, thanks. Thanks having me on. I'm pretty sure that you might be. I might be wrong on this. So correct me if I'm wrong. I think the first time we met was Downton down to day. I remember I think like we message of it on Instagram or something and then I'm pretty sure he started just before a Justice just starting in the time and trouble and that was the first time I met you, I Speaker 2 think. Yeah. So was that 2017? Maybe. Yeah, I think it was my first race and I'm a featuring, your video actually. I was quite good, like, a had I didn't have any like proper equipment at the time and I just wore bib tight. With just a base layer is weird because you can see the base flood. And it's just a video of me. I assume your dad your dad's. Okay. Me just get an area for like 4 seconds. I was like I wanted to. I've made it onto the each each other. Yeah. Those were good times. Have a good rest is funny. Speaker 1 Yeah, those are so fun. I wish I wish they'd come Speaker 2 back. And so I suppose the question for one of the two listeners who don't already know who you are from kind of mutual circles and stuff. Can you explain to everyone who's read Walters who are you Speaker 1 Yeah. So I'm red. Walters I guess the main thing now about me is I'm a cyclist I represent Grenada, that's where half an hour, it is some kind of representing Creator in cycling and I currently well this year have been riding for real-world site which is at UCI Continental team based in the UK. So if you're not I guess not all your viewers are going to be cycling like in that bubble. That's like the third division down in terms of where everything is set. So you have been doing like some reason. The UK it's been a few rows of the broad but yeah, so mainly cycling I've got a bunch of other interests but yeah, I think it's rather cyclists at the Speaker 2 moment. So, it's like, give it a context before we dive into all the things you've been up to in the more recent years. What were you like? As a child 5 6, 7 year-old read, what was school like for you? How would you describe Speaker 1 yourself? I've just gone right down, like, in the memory Memory Lane. I think I like to assure. You know, I'd like good group of friends primary school. At least it was like just, yeah, a bit of fun. It wasn't that Focus, like academically. I mean, I was always like a damn ass like that is, that was my thing from my childhood like maths was just, it just came to me, so I was quite fortunate in that respect. And then, like other subjects, like English is, didn't really care too much about it. And then, you know, moving to secondary school and sixth form, especially hunts, when I sort of realized that I could focus on academics a bit more. Awesome. Is I cared about it a bit more and put a bit more effort into it. And that was read the guy. Who cares about, you know, grades and stuff. That was my focus at that point. So six, almost like, you know, for gas on on Gray. In the union stuff. And then, yeah, three weeks before you need. That's what I made the surprises Angeles. Like abandon it or I suppose, what's it called? The Ferber it, which I'm not, I'd that the fairy of like three years in the end. Yeah, the fur for cycling and yeah, I thought I got so I am today. Yes, it's a tricky one. It was a really hard decision and it's like it's one my half regretted for a real long time. Like I probably could have gone to Oxford. I got the grades and suffer. I'll miss out on the interview but I'm not salty, right? That anymore. I was at one point but II screwed up the interview but either way, it's one of those things like I guess that was an insecurity of mine. Like the intelligence could I didn't go to UNI and you know everyone like most people go to Union that was hard to miss out on but it's and there are people who go to Union, still trained to be a top-level, like it's possible, but for me, I think to be 100% focused on it and like not let a single aspect down. I just I needed to get to be just cycling. And you know I could always I want to I can always go back to UNI. It's not like that sad or whatever really closes so I know I'm happy with my decision for Speaker 2 now. Yeah. I mean I think you've been quite suppose enterprising with everything that you've been able to do as well with a cycling. It's not like you've just kind of locked yourself away and train full-time and try to make it professional. You know, you're, you're out there trying to get brand deals and putting yourself out there and doing content creation, which allows it to work, and kind of continuing and kind of remaining still in the formative years and trying to understand read, as a person before we do it. To the cycling stuff. Not just, how were you like as a child temperamentally? But what were your sort of aspirations when you were younger? What are your like favorite hobbies before you found cycling? Speaker 1 So, firstly temperamentally, I think I'd always been quite a, I don't like these were self-aware, but I think to a degree that maybe, you know, I don't like say I'm more than other people, but I was definitely quite aware. Emotionally of things that I do from like really young. I, for example, when I was three or maintain, that must have been like five or something, I vowed never to say, I hate you to any of my family. The only thing like that looking back as far as things like, what made me do that? And there's loads of, like, little things that made me think I was quite other. I think I was just quite thoughtful in that way, but I was also fairly angry, like, not just like really angry all the time, but less less control, and I think it's a better way. But it like, not that I was angry. But well, I was angry. I was Speaker 2 angry. I think, what, what, what angered you, Speaker 1 well, Call of Duty for a star? I remember. Oh man, so many, yeah. Fair few arguments had from just raging. Call of Duty a little hike. My poor sister is like room is right next to mine here. We are shouting down the down and like and stuff, but I think if anything, that, that kind of thing teaches you to just get a bit more of control. And now I'm at a point in that respect, where I've got, I'm pretty happy with, you know, the local, I just don't really get angry. That's one of the things that I would say, I've sort of developed in and then confidence is another thing. It's weird in primary school. I don't know. I found confidence really easily suppose when your kid. It's fairly easy to have. He's a little busy go through the teens, it's like some people kind of have that not quite just get a bit quiet and I was one of those people he wasn't confidence in the terms of self belief, but confidence in like speaking to people, for example speaking in front of a crowd that kind of level of confidence and that's where the last few years I've just had to just make an effort like a real effort to just change that about myself. So yeah, probably last four or five years, maybe dress before lockdown. It was like I can't live like, just being, I guess. Shy shy is the word. Speaker 2 And how would you say your parents kind of influenced you when you're that sort of age and kind of shaped your character? Because there anything you can pick out in traits in your parents, you can kind of identify and say, oh, maybe that's, maybe that's where I got that kind of Speaker 1 from. Yeah, I think the termination is one thing. Well, that's the right word or not. I remember. So, clearly any time there was any kind of task that, you know, me and my sister didn't think we could do or it. So I give up or something, my dad would just give me that look like give of What does I'm like? Literally like that wasn't that I didn't exist. What does that mean? Couldn't comprehend it? And then there's another thing. He'd always say, feel the fear and do it anyway and there's a book called the other fear and do it. Anyway he said that probably hundreds or thousands of times you know that also comes back into our confidence thing. I use that and it's all become part of my philosophy and you know saying one mum as well like similar things where I think just that self-belief and I think parents can often be criticized and their kids. They can do anything. But for me it was always the case of you can do anything. You put your mind to so anything that if you commit to something and you want it badly enough and you do what it takes to get there, like, you can do it and it's just that. That self belief, that anything is possible. Speaker 2 You mention the fact that will see you represent. Grenada as a cyclist, you're born in the UK, how has it been having family over there and found in the UK? And is there any sort of attributes? You can say oh well actually got that side from my mom specifically because of Speaker 1 that it's funny. Actually the cultural difference is It's a different world like, you know, sometimes will spend Christmas at my dad's parents house, and then sometimes it'll be my mom's mom's house. Obviously, it's a different set of people obviously different culture and it is you just tend to get a completely different, I don't know. It's just, yeah, everything's different. And I guess where I could get different attributes from. It's hard to say, like, where I've picked up because I think I pick up. I picked up so many things from so many different places in as a general rule for like my personality as a whole. It's hard to even describe it just yet. They're very, very Speaker 2 different was only cool challenges growing up having that. Two different parts of your family will. Like, did you find it ever as problematic whether in school or with family or was it just something that you just embraced and accepted Speaker 1 well? So I grew up in London. I went to school Primary School in Wimbledon so that was like it's a very diverse place for a six-year-old or whatever age, you know, that age radar, it wasn't even a thought, you know, there's people from literally all over the world in the classrooms and then some, my family. We went traveling for a couple of years ago. We did a lot of sailing. So he sailed down through Europe and then across the Caribbean and then Grenada. We stayed there for a year with my grandma says, like all the opposite spending that time like fully immersed in that culture. And then coming back here, again, we moved to well down south in Hampshire, which is much much less diverse than London. So it was like a case of being, you know in a really diverse place to literally being like the only black kid in the school. It wasn't - for me for the most part. You know, there's always going to be a few comments or a few people who are just Not a great people, but more of identity thing it was sort of I was I was definitely a bit lost for a while in terms of identity and even more recently, like I have struggled in, I guess where I sort of place myself in my own head in terms of identity and various various places, obviously cultural is a big one. And, you know, now, I've sort of found my own way. In terms of doesn't have to be one thing or a different thing or different thing. It's like, you just, you build your own mixture of the way you act, and the way, the way you do, Speaker 2 And so, I know you've mentioned it a few times in sharing and the listeners that don't know you or don't know your story. Was there any particular moment in which you found cycling and made that split decision because I know you are interested in obviously some other Hobbies as younger. You've mentioned Call of Duty but I'm sure you weren't going to be a pro MLG player or whatever they whatever they call that. But when was the decision to kind of find cycling, find sport as opposed to other things. Speaker 1 Yeah, so I mean yeah I played you know, video games for ages. I was never A good enough to even consider being like, you know Pro. I was sailing for a real long time like dinghy sailing that was like my sport from literally from the age of four till 12 or 13. And I was fairly good like a club or but not, you know, not crazy and then he was coming up to Jesus. He's and it was a really weird. Sort of there was no, at least, I don't remember there being any sort of push or suggestions from anything, but I wanted to start something a sport or, you know, something physical, you know, I've always been I always consider myself to be quite strong Like you know, all muscles in the playground. I was always pretty good at those and I wanted to put that somewhere and I was looking at hobbies and after you car racing had been something that had taken my taking my fancy because also when I've done going to do mini motor racing, which was for a really short time but I think I enjoyed was like okay if I can't do motor racing you know RC car racing is like the next closest and quite cheap thing. So it's between that and cycling weirdly but I made it ended up long story short making up making a deal with my dad. If I got enough A's in my Jesus easy Buy me a bike and I literally got like the exact number of days that we've agreed on. So he got the bike. I remember, he like, went off the work, picked it up on the way home and I got this bike. The first thing I thought, when I write was like, oh this is weird. I'm not sure. I like this. Like it was, it was two sizes, too large for me and I felt like I was too, you know, it was too small. Basically it's just getting used to the way you ride a road bike as opposed to like a mountain bike. But anyway, that's just for some weird reason. I was like, I was still really interested in it. I think I'm to the race. It was a nun. Seen risers. I don't even talk about as my first race anyway, but I entered a race the week after I got it got a lap three times came. Second last, the only guy can losses like an age category down, but I was like no I want to I want to beat these guys. It was a weird and you know, I've always been competitive anyway, but it's just something about cycling. I think everyone agree. Everyone seems to say the same thing as like you just want to get better and that sort of desire to get better to be successful and win. It was like, from that moment, I literally remember I posted on Instagram after that, The race. I think the caption was the training begins here, hashtag Pro cycling hashtag something something. And if I find it kind of funny because like what? I had no idea what it took I entered. I think I've been speaking some race organizers. Like, hey guys, yeah, can I enter your cat 3 raise or cat to race? I think I've got enough. I cycle one more to school each day, so I should be, should be all right. And it's like, I had no clue but something there, you know, maybe one of the Speaker 2 that's really inside why she? Because it's that kind Of again, the crossroads between going down RC racing and cycling is not something, it's just they're so completely different. It's like how can those to be the choices? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, I know, Speaker 2 but then, yeah, I mean, I suppose both of them have the elements of of gamification and competitiveness. And I suppose with cycling, you then have the added benefits of being outside, Being Fit being healthy, and you can actually see more quantifiable Improvements maybe yeah. I mean I don't know if you're analyzing it to this Speaker 1 degree. Thank you definitely wasn't. Speaker 2 What was it that kind of made you fall in love with cycling, because it is a fantastic Sport and we can share in that and many of the people listening can can appreciate that. But but many also don't cycle. Many can just see us and be like, what, why would you want to go out on a, on a Sunday morning when it's middle of winter and do six hours is own to? What is that drive come from? Speaker 1 Yeah, I find that really interesting actually because until well probably until a year or two after I started, I just assumed everyone was in the same boat as me and then you sort of go on and learn that. Actually there's a lot of reasons why people like cycling a lot of reasons why people even like racing as well as it. So for me it's is about racing, you know, obviously that competitive I've always been just so, so competitive to the point where some ages, it was like too much and I have to dial it back because, you know, I was that kid, he turned everything to erase Into a competition. It's like bright stop', like it's just too stressful as well. Speaker 2 Just enjoy the things. Speaker 1 Some yeah, you can't compete over. Like he's eating their food fastest every meal and like that kind of stuff. So I dialed it back, but still. Yeah, super competitive. You know, like I don't people, I like winning so for me that's that's literally what it's all about and then sort of probably later on comes to stop of, you know the self-improvement stuff. That's an addictive game itself. And the training is fun, like I don't mind training, I do dislike it but it's not. Not, it's not to me what racing is, and for some people, it's like, they just love going out for that zone to hack for four hours. That's like, that's it for them but I mean, it's yeah. Yeah. But that's not that's not my main motivator. Speaker 2 Yeah, because I it's something that's going to be try to understand in myself, setting myself, against people like yourself or like my housemate last year. Tom obviously living with him for a year understanding that kind of mindset which definitely share the you in terms of being Competitive wanting to beat other people in racing and I've just never felt the need to be anyone. I do everything for myself which is why I suppose I've never really fallen in love with the racing. And and I've not really felt the need to be other people. I just want to improve myself and it's weird how those, it's almost like a binary thing. It's like you either hyper-competitive or I just don't care and I don't know why. I don't know why that is. Did you think there's any anything in particular that I just about the competitiveness? I know if you could I'd think or unpack that a little bit more because it's something that really interests Speaker 1 me, I'm convinced that's like an eight way of thinking because I think so, for example, my sister, who you could assume largely has the same art bringing, she just isn't competitive like that. You know, she enjoys things and she enjoys bettering herself. Like she goes to the gym, like loads, she's jacked, but you like better different. That's just not a focus for her in the same way it is, is it is really? And it is. Yeah. Like I think I'm convinced it's like a Thing. It's almost it's just that such a deep level but like I want to beat this guy like in any just a small situation you know. I'm right next to someone just that feeling of someone like next to me. I want it. It's just it's hard to even put into words to be honest. It's just a yeah, it would be really interesting to like I'm sure someone somewhere is done like a, I don't know a PhD on it because like, dig up some papers. Speaker 2 Yeah, I guess. Now we're going to talk about the next choice point for you, which was coming out of sick form. You say you worked really hard Hard and you nailed the a-level exams. And that was your focus with cycling, gradually increasing in importance and then I will see you make that decision. What was it that you were going to potentially study at Uni? Yes, Speaker 1 I was going to do math and computer science. I did a levels maths further maths physics and computer science and in the end like so physics would have been the one that I would have dropped but kept anyway and I didn't really have a great teacher so I just let that slip. So then for the three subjects, maths further maths to computer science. I saw a and then physics, I got a say in which it's a bit disappointing for like the trend but I can't confine this for subject. The only need three to, you know, get in. And then the decision to defer like I said, three weeks before I made the call site. Now I'm just going to cycle for a year, just enjoy racing with race, you know, full-time, all that, I had a few jobs around that time at various periods but yeah, long story short, I put the Gap here and then it was actually 2017. That was it as 2017 that I took the Gap year and then 2018, when I I was going to go to UNI, again, that was when I got the contract with fetus, which is the UCI Continental team as I, why can't I can't go to UNI now. Like, I've just got this comment, I would be a shame to like not give that 100 percent, and then sort of that mindset kept on going like more opportunities. It was like, I can't because in my mind going from full-time to UNI would be something where I would struggle to keep improving at the same rate. And, like, I'm all about improving and that kind of thing, I feel like going from For me at least going from having all the time to train to eat to plant, like everything there, as well as possible to then having limited time, I just feel like I wouldn't be able to get the same amount out of myself. So yeah, I deferred it and deferred into 30 and then I just canceled it because you know, for the foreseeable. It's like I'm in a good spot right now. Slowly becoming more sustainable for me. Cycling is so it's like okay, I just go of this see where we can go and just shoot for the absolute top because, you know, you won't get an opportunity or not. Unity like that again. Speaker 2 Fantastic. And just before I ask a follow-up question, just my own curiosity really what you need was it that you would potentially going to go to Speaker 1 it was bath and then I deferred it and changes in Southampton, Speaker 2 once you deferred, you kind of thought to yourself. Well, if I am gonna go, I still need to be able to have. I mean, I assume you'd like live at home then and kind of commute in Speaker 1 dream or think about being able to make that kind of impact to people, but you do it Speaker 2 dialed in. I can definitely vouch for the fact that it's not that Training at the same level have the same aspiration that you bought from my experience. When I did first year of uni and I was trying to do 18 hour weeks on the bike. It's definitely a lot harder with the balance purely, because you don't you underestimate how tired you are from cycling mentally as well. But you get off the bike, you might be a long session. It might be a short session, doesn't matter what it is. You think? Okay, I'm physically tired. Now, I'm going to have a shower eat and then switch on mentally to do like a two-hour session of revision. Nah, it It doesn't work like that. Like I rather you're mentally waxed as well. Speaker 1 I read a thing saying that like from a energy spent point of view. Your brain is the most demanding muscle in your entire body which I can't I can't, I don't know how legit those. I can't remember where I read it but you know, it makes sense. I remember after my exams. I think a lot of people at the same. I was wax like, for two weeks straight. After you've got exams exams, a three weeks. I was finished. I couldn't ride a bike. Couldn't do anything for literally a bed bound for two weeks. So it's like, yeah, like you said going the other way, going from doing a heavy session, you can't really focusing, I can't do it. Some people find it clears their mind, but is really difficult, Speaker 2 maybe one hour Zone to can clear your mind. But yeah, anything that actually requires any effort. Nah, there's no going back. That's what they offer at that point for a long session. There's a couple of things. I kind of wanted to ask you about that. Do actually come before this. So, I'm sorry, too kind of disrupt the I'm like because I'm trying to go ahead and gruffly in chronological order. But if we kind of look at, I'm gonna remember forget the name now. But I remember there was something which you are invited to you and you're part of a TV series and then it got cancelled can you maybe explain that for me because I can't Speaker 1 remember. Yeah, you know I'm still salty. Well I mean I'm over it just about over it now like five years later, so it was a channel called bike Channel and they had a TV show called the coach pro and the quickest way to describe the premise of that was that it was like the Recycling. So they started with like 50 guys. They took us all to a gym for the first episode. We didn't have TB test and they narrow that down to 40, guys. The next episode of into Brands hatch and we did like I think we did ya the so split into groups and they did a race each and then top for go through from each race or top five maybe. And then so that was ten ten guys total. And then with those ten guys is less than 22 against 05 each and we did a tight team time trial each and that they literally just took one person from each team. Or just one person or two people, totally even each coach, those two coaches. Each coach was a big guy and I was in the final two for that and then they took us to the whole route in France. So it literally like fluids out to Switzerland. Do this awesome like seven our route through the out so that was the first time funny enough that I like appreciated like natural beauty and like the environment and I was like damn views actually kind of cool but before that my opinion was you know I can always go on Google Images but no that was that was very special. So yeah, we got a final, two of that. That was amazing. I was, you know, knocking like confident as I am. I was like, yeah, I'm going to beat this guy. Like, I'm gonna win this and the winner. Got a contract with UCI Continental team in the UK called Canyon. And that was like, they were, they still are the biggest. Speaker 2 That's me. They've survived the last 16 years. Speaker 1 Literally like the only team to still be around since then anyway. So I was like, yes, it's feeling good and then the channel went bust went into Administration. The show went down like fully Council would like from one day. It's all great the next day. Say no emails from no one had to hand the bike back. We had this really nice. It was like, I've never had like a nice bike before that I'd had like secondhand. So to have this like carbonara bite of all Tegrity 02, I was like, whoa, whoa, it's crazy. Anyway, had done that back as really sad, and I think, yeah, that's one of those things I'm still here. Now, I'm still, you know, I saw trained all this time, I've still got to that level of team. So yeah, it's not, it's not the worst thing in the Speaker 2 world, made it happen through through sheer determination. Which as you say is, is infinite. Speaker 1 Especially absolutely, Speaker 2 your your Speaker 1 phrase. Yeah, that's not me that I'm crazy. Yeah, kind of coffee, right? I made that phrase. When my sister was asking for some quotes for her art homework, she acted like some stylistic, like representational, eventually are some quotes and I intend on and I was the first one around. I was like, you know, I'm keeping that. I'm going to use that Speaker 2 straight in Instagram by Speaker 1 yeah. Yeah, exactly Speaker 2 awesome. See ya to get back on track. I mean, that's something I was just personally interested in. So, I hope anyone listening or watching can also appreciate that story for bit of context like to kind of look at them? Yeah, you got the vitis contract and that was the the year. After the Gap year, your first time Racing for proper outfit at the time, it's that step up and the opportunities that come with that. The contract gives you the belief and okay let's put our eggs in the basket here. Can you take me through maybe what some of those early experiences felt like? I mean, to start off with. How did you get the Speaker 1 contract? I Determine from from those, he faces actually that we did. I think there's like July or August summer time. I was determined from them. I was like, I'm gonna get I really want to get on a continental, think the next year in retrospect whether I was ready or not is for a debate. But, you know, I really wanted that. I was emailing every content team in the UK. I mean, it's only like 5 or 4 at the time. I think I'd email is like all the ones in Europe as well, but I would literally if there was easy I think I ended up in my been the year after. But at one point, I emailed literally every CI team in Europe. So if CRT monitor to check your emails, from four years ago, because you've got one for me and, you know, just really like I put together CV, like, an infographic. Like I was really like on it with that. And obviously, in conjunction with my YouTube channel, I'll just try to portray the best possible version of myself and I'd literally given up. I couldn't find, I've done everyone. I couldn't find the email for beat us and I stumbled upon it on the UCI website, so I sent it off. And then like five days later the manager at the timeshare ashita Mo back like, oh, watching your videos, we think is really cool. I think a really cool car to the service course and we'll show you around and have a chat and I thought that's pretty cool. So I went there and it sounded like you know they'd already made up their mind they were going to offer me the contract and it's like from there it was just like insane because I was especially compared to now that was a really well funded team. So it's like, you know, they've got a service course of racks and racks on racks and racks of bike's wheels everywhere. And then, you know, we turn on Steam. Can't they've got team car team bus or not Buster like team van. We're in the Diamante hotel and calp which if you've been to copy that's like the hotel. The base is like the super nice hotel. We've got bikes all this kit there. I am like trying to find that kit on 50% sale and waiting for it, fails, it's 10:20 good, my jersey, and then they give me this just suitcase full of kittens skin Zoo. So it was like insane, you know? I'm on the same. Theme is a pansy. He's won Olympic gold medals. It was just, yeah, it was mad. You have to let the contract sort of change the way you think you get the solid line, you have to tell yourself, you deserve to be. Here you go to in that. Be for example, where you The only constant in there, you have to sort of believe, you are a level above because your team, your team is a level above and the other Riders are going to treat you like you're a level above, you know, in terms of how they race you. So you do have to really believe it and I think that does affect like there's a whole conversation to be had about race psychology but at the end of the day is I don't think I was quite at the level to be on that team. I think it would have been good if I was in that top half of riders but I wasn't that was probably you know, realistically bonford. You know, I had a really good spring back then but In terms of an engine and road racing, I just wasn't quite at that level and I could have been, you know, I could have gained a lot of experience but they didn't end up racing me that much. I think I did like one road race of the team and a couple of a couple of Chris. I calculated the ended up doing more sponsored sporty miles which is just like, you know they have a few sponsors also, these parties, I did more sponsored 40 miles than race miles with the team. So at the end of the year is like okay this was a cool opportunity but it what he wasn't that good but again like I don't regret it. It was still like, a lot of great lessons then, so, yeah, just something to learn from a move on really. Speaker 2 And then didn't invite us fold after that year or something, Speaker 1 like they happened to them. They ran for, they ran for 2020, and then, that's when covid happened. And then they fold it after that. So, yeah, I mean, that's pretty pretty standard story story with them like UK British teams. It's just ever since 2016 2017, or maybe, just before 2050. And I was like the peak of, you know your stories about guys getting like six figures on a condo. And it's like the money just it's just slowly Decline and now it's just difficult Speaker 2 because it was all the hype from the Olympics. Wasn't there? Then you kind of you gradually get to the point where actually local councils and the government's that kind of facilitate and make racing easier in the UK, don't do that. And you mean, this is a conversation that's really hard time but it's such a consistent theme across your speak to anyone and you'll say well you go abroad into Europe to race. And the prize money is amazing. The race entries are really cheap. All the locals are happy to have the roads closed so you can go and cheer these like fourth Division and the 23 Riders past their village. Where is the UK? It's like you basically have no clothes, right? No clothes road racing and if you do, then everyone's just bitter and resentful about the fact that they can't drive around Guilford for that one weekend where there's a Gilbert incentive Grant which is yeah, isn't it a shame, isn't it? So continue to me, Through then you've done your Gap year. Now you've done your year for working but racing providers. I know you touched on it a little bit earlier but how are you supporting yourself was doing that? You like living at home and working part time I guess, but what? Yeah, so how are you managing that? Speaker 1 Well, firstly I was always like good at saving like I've been I guess at that point in my life especially I was just I was so Frugal like I was living at home. So like food. You know, my parents were nice enough to let me live at home about paying rent. You know, they buy food. So that's like, cupboard. I did have various part-time jobs and then Speaker 2 Now cycling isn't cheap, is it? Speaker 1 No. Oh it's not it really isn't more independent. You become the more you realize. Damn like there's just everything just ads and ads and ads and ads and it's it's a bit crazy. But now I'm like, super fortunate to be sorted by us financially. So that's what allows me to keep writing full-time. You know, some of the things. If that didn't happen, then I can't say for certain, I'd still be writing full-time. So I immensely immensely grateful to them Speaker 2 is very much make-or-break financially that point, isn't it? And that's That's what stops a lot of Young Riders from continuing because it gets that cutoff point where you know, the parents are going to let make your 2021 either. You start paying rent or you move out or something happens and it's like you're not keeping the dream alive and trying to facilitate that. I think the the Fantastic thing about what you've been able to do, which we all touch on as well, is the content creation and the YouTube channel side of things because What started is making some video on how to I've got, I've got a no-till aside how to fix system and compress Speaker 1 Molly, which I Speaker 2 that's like the first video on your YouTube or maybe the second video on your YouTube channel. Speaker 1 Well, that's the well, so that it's not, it's not the first video is the only one I have left. I'm proud of it because it's got like 60,000 bees or something crazy. Speaker 2 But so, did you used to do those kind of videos before Speaker 1 know? So that's the only. For video ever did because I have this problem on my computer for like it are it must have been months and months and I couldn't find a solution. I ended up finding it like deep buried in some Reddit thread. And I was like, I have to tell the world about this and you know how when you find a problem, when you're going to use your video, it's like a ten minute video and sometimes like, what's up guys, it's like X Tech help man. One, two, three. I'm going to be and it's like, bro, just show me how to do it. It's like one fixes, seven minutes in. As I want to make a 15 second video on how to fix it. It did well. But before that I did, as soon called YouTube videos, I think I probably only got to less than 100 subscribers during that, but it's just one of those things. It's like, I just enjoyed making videos and I montages and that's like, I just find it fun to like, put my achievements on the internet, I guess. And then, you know, obviously side cycling and that's the main focus. I just transition the whole thing over prior with it. All my college easy video, Speaker 2 was this still under the same name? Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. It was just the register. I was like my nickname of the kid. Like the red straw, the red, my sir. So, Speaker 2 Yeah, so you were that guy and I'm trying to build a picture. Now, over the course of this conversation, so far, you are getting angry, is a kid at playing Call of Duty. With then, as you got older, you thought. Hmm, let me share this with other people and being competitive and sharing it and scaling up in that way. And those skills are so invaluable on they that like video editing and being able to craft and create something that's something which I have that little window into as well after making gaming videos, when I was like 13 on. If you have you heard of RuneScape of course. Yeah, I was such a I'm RuneScape. Yeah, I was Speaker 1 that guy. It's funny though. Like the lessons you learn from video games, the biggest lesson that I learned was like such a big lesson. So I was playing chords. You can this is like the first cause your plane. So it's real early on one more fair to and you know, I was playing like leveling up, you know, going for the progressions enjoying life and my friend was like, Hey, I can hack you to the max level. So what I did it, I pressed went through all the thing. So, yeah, just press this. Button and it will get sorted. I pressed it. I was at all like immediately knew I'd made a mistake and long story short like realizing that there's no more progression. There's no reason to play the game anymore like it's boring as hell and I feel like that was one of the things that made me realize it's about the journey you have to enjoy life like don't focus on getting to the end or whatever. It's just about trying to make the whole thing like fun. Speaker 2 It's interesting. You mention that because it's almost like part of my grind with just One thing to do, big owls on the bike in the winter, for no reason because I'm not trying to race or anything. It's like why on Earth would you do that? You look at me playing RuneScape. When I was like 12. Like, just woodcutting for like five hours. The same monotonous repetitive task is like that's just to see what numbers gradually incrementally. Go off when XP. But yeah, like you say, like it teaches you quite a lot about, I guess, like patients in the journey and the, you know, it doesn't matter when you see the 99 or whatever on RuneScape or whatever. Was in terms of top-level prestige. Yeah, it's always about gradually seeing Improvement not necessary that the finished product because then what does have to do Speaker 1 this? Yeah, exactly. Must be pretty boring. Being woven art, you know, winning all these races. I think it's a bit different to him, but it would be boring if you want every single Race by like a margin and it was easy. It's gotta be, it's gotta be a bit little bit of struggle in the, Speaker 2 when was it that you kind of realized you again in traction on the YouTube channel? Just to stay down this content creation, God, Speaker 1 Shh, it's hard to pinpoint exactly because it's just absent flows and I haven't been as consistent as I could have been or wanted to have been at times at the start of this year. I did a few Vlogs on training camp and I was like I want to pump out like a few Vlogs and I was like editing them like proper Bare Bones on my phone and that, like did really well, especially because I did a video with Francis Kate and you gave me a good shout out and then I did on cam Jeffers and he gave me a good shot out. So I was like a really good like concerns. I got to under quite on 6,000 subscribers to similar Speaker 2 similar to the Instagram, then. I guess at this Speaker 1 point. Yeah, it's exactly the same except you know, Vince, again it's like there's the reels and soften you hit a good real. You literally like, refreshing your notifications. It just like follow follow, follow follow, this is crazy. And then I'll dry out for a while. And you'll post like five reels that do nothing and they'll get another one that just gets like a couple hundred thousand views and it's like that is another addictive thing funny say that I've been like just this last week, I sort of started building a Content plan so I want to try and do a poster a real every day at the start. Without a plan is actually from this really daunting like how am I going to make a real everyday or how am I going to make a bit of content? Is it you don't have to make a bit of content every day. You just do something on a Monday or once a week or even once a month, if you get really good and you just bash it all out plan all out and you can get like, so this morning I've done a handful of real hard to do the more this afternoon and it's Monday. I think my rest day cycling light. So I've got time to just try and get a bunch of content done plan it all out, and it's actually like it's not hard at all when you actually plan and that's something I've been. Do a lot more reason like planning Speaker 2 to use my Google Calendar or something to kind of visualize, everything, I mean notion is fantastic. If you haven't heard of Speaker 1 notion, hey don't start me about notion that. I discovered that two weeks ago Raven. No way everyone about it. So I credible not a deal with ocean. I could preach everyone about notion. Oh my goodness, just the customizability. It's like, for anyone who doesn't know. It's the calendar. I'm leaving sponsored or anything. I'm gonna promote the hell are these guys? Yeah, it's a calendar. I wish I could share my screen. It's a calendar, but each each element in, the calendar has various attributes, but you can customize anything about the attribute. So, for example, I've got on my one status, you know? So that's publish idea in progress, scheduled, whatever you've got deadlines for when you want to actually you know complete doing it. Publication date type if it's Instagram Facebook theme I've added things. Like there's a funny thing or like an inspirational thing. I'm not going to lie. This time too much like writing it. But it's, yeah, it's really it's changed my. I feel like it's changed my whole perspective on planning for social media. So it's yeah, it's pretty. Speaker 2 Absolutely, and this is even just somewhere to to make notes as well. Like, yeah, right now next, to me on those, this is like really transparent. I've got a few like, rough pointers about yourself that we're going to talk about. Yes, it's all embedded within your podcast episode planner thing in the calendar. Oh yeah. And then you can view the color and all these different ways. Yeah. We will, he won't go down on a tangent everyone that I've showed Notions here. I'm gonna show my dad a couple of weeks ago and his mind just exploded. He was like you've actually found something really good that I didn't know about. So, yeah, I know. Yeah, yeah, we're going down a river Wormhole here. But with with content creation, and hearing how you were able to leverage that over time, it speaks to that consistency, doesn't it? Because back in 2017, 2018, you got down to the Vlogs and doing all the stuff. As we've talked about everything that we've talked about your vlogging and creating content on maybe ebbing and flowing in terms of doing a daily Vlog and then not posting for like a month or two or, you know, it's not, maybe, as consistent as it could be, but you've, it's been six years and you're still posting content. It's not like it died away. Like I did eight months of YouTube vlogging and then I start. So yeah, it's definitely yeah, definitely speaks to how important. Just keep hammering away at something is in Speaker 1 terms of like cycling as well in sports. General. If a manager is looking at two potential Riders of the team and they're like the exact same, its many attributes or whatever. And one guy's got the YouTube and the promotional stuff. Easy decision is it, especially cycling. Now is so, I mean, the end of the day, a cycling team is just a commercial. Like, it is just a advertising platform, at least, that's how its operated that's has funded. I've got an exposure of like, say, 7,000 something followers on Instagram. There are like the majority of World Tour, or a lot of World Tour Riders have lesson that it It makes a big difference so I'm giving more exposure than like a lot of World Tour riders that are getting paid a huge. My obviously they're better bike riders and that's what wins races. But I think especially now like a lot of sponsors and teams are realizing that actually we're getting more bang for our buck on social media. And we offer willing a bike Speaker 2 race to kind of try and Rewind. Cuz I'm just trying to, I think about it in my mind so far in terms of the journey, we talked up until the vitis and then what came out of that then lockdown hits, your ordering form opens, was Speaker 1 it? Yeah, it went a lot further. The area's isn't opens. Yeah Speaker 2 yeah. What was locked down like for you as a someone who's trying to well trying to make it as a professional at the end of the day and really put your all into it and then suddenly bang. What's that? Speaker 1 Like is so weird to me. So it was that. I mean it was his car for everyone. Right? Like everyone's had their plans destroyed for the year but that was in my head at least that was the Breakthrough year. You know, we had a team. I was on a team. I think I had five people who were like my mates as like just amazed but they were also on the team and it was Such a unique environment, which its most only got experience again like always be mates with my teammates but like, like boom, I'm sorry. And yeah, man, Harry different, Matt Webster and a guy called David. Yeah, that was its last five. Like we're on the team and are also made. It was phenomenal at chained together a together. It was just awesome, so good and then me and David, we emailed like these. You see I races in Europe and he managed to get a hat like so many invites to these you. So I level races for no pins. Like, yo, we can actually do these big races on this team. You've got a great kid. But great buys like everything was so good and he went to one UCI in France, like it didn't go great but it was our first you see I I sort of finish so it's great and then obviously covid bam like finish. And you know it's one of those things as well where the way it panned out you always had a bit of Hope for like a couple weeks time. Like it was always like I just a little bit more just a little bit more just a little bit more Speaker 2 two weeks to slow the spread two weeks. It's Speaker 1 like that's the one and then like that half the year the majority is gone but like for me Least the way it is in my memory. It's almost deleted when it was almost like. So - that I just didn't even allow it to get - like was just neutral. It must have been three or four months of training where I just went out and train. Follow the plan, got home whatever, by just it just happened. Like I don't remember it just happened. There was no motivation, not motivation as did it. That was. It is so ingrained into me to like, open up showing Peaks and see what is do the right. Like that's to the point where I remember is to happen in the past for the Coach. Well I think they put it late on a Sunday night so I checked thinking is nothing. So it's a rest day and then I check for the next day on that day. I like 8:00 p.m. and find there's a roller session and they were like a second like damn, I have to do it and the amount of a couple times I've been like 10 p.m. and I'm doing some horrible session, just because I can't I can't just like, not do it because that's the plan. It's like it's such an ingrained thing. And I, yeah, that's such a trusting a coach but then once you do is such a routine, I guess, you just That's the chain, you do the training and Speaker 2 it's never any question. That's definitely something I've learned from Tom, as well as the relationship with the coach because he changed coach and he had coached for like many years. And then had to change coach for this year. Hearing him being hard. Like, I don't know what to do. I don't know if I can trust this new guy and like, obviously you're investing money and time and everything it like, yeah. Someone who wants to become a pressurized. This better work. Speaker 1 Yeah. It was like you're messing your whole life in this guy's placing. Yeah, it's a big. Of trust, Speaker 2 it's good to hear that. You were, you had that mindset of you're doing the plan. Whatever the plan said, regardless a lot of people will allow feelings to creep in. They allow themselves to negotiate with themselves if they don't have that structure. That's like imposed on them from someone else. Speaker 1 I mean, don't get me wrong. I saw some low moments. I think the lowest moment you know, you know, the Airfield in the New Forest. Yeah. Anyone doesn't know, it's the highest point in the New Forest is really exposed. There's not a lot of trees, and if it's windy, it's really windy. Double flat ran out of shoes. Had to call my mom or my dad for a pickup, and it was so windy and cold on the road. They have the roadside and they have like a little bitch and a bump. I literally had to lie down in this ditch so like get Shelter From The Wind. So I could stay warm and wait there for like an hour parents go, but yeah, Speaker 2 wow. Yeah. There's there's definitely highs and lows to riding a bike and puncturing in the winter, and waiting for your parents. To pick you up, is certainly a low that I think many of us can experience. Yeah. Speaker 1 Anyway, so I ended up moving away and then and I started riding with bcn black cyclists Network. So guy called money set up in London and as like as a way to promote promote, diversity in cycling, which as I'm sure a lot of people know, it's like it's lacking, especially down, like, down south where there is Sophie, like I'll see like one or two other black guys on a bike a year. Anyway, beside the point is, I join that team and that was great. You know, that was when there was really not a lot of racing, it was just local races line to coming back. They'd have like 20 minute races and apparently three, lots of 20-minute races was safer than one hour race, which the logic the logic is not logical but anyway, we did those races and that was great like just to get into racing again, you know, you haven't raised for like a month or that point. It's just good fun, seeing mates racing with make. So that's all cool. And then for 2021 tailgate and heart was doing a, an initiative with hoggins Berman, which is the under-23 team, he Before he went pro to help try and increase diversity. So they were looking for Riders to give us a she opportunity which is like an intern role where normally the idea is your sash year for the last part of one year, and then the next year, you get a chance of full contract. Unfortunately, for me, it was my last run 2:23 anyway, so I wouldn't have been able to Bart this or gave me the opportunity which was amazing. So I joined them after going over and that was just after I started representing Grenadier as well. So, I've gone over to the Caribbean championships and then I joined them for a couple of races like hi. Hi. A level races, you know, raising Remco and V, and a couple other guys who are like big names, which was, you know, crazy Speaker 2 experience Racing for like different teams, trying out different things. And as Racing's opening, again be able to like tippy toes in what European racing feels like and then what were you up to this year? And what we've been your biggest highlights and achievements. Now that, you know, we're taking you through, taking everyone through the Journey of how you got to this season and where you are today. What's this year? Look like for you? Speaker 1 Yes, it's charged. One, dribble, it's another UCI Continental. In the UK that's been pretty cool you know again like a really really cool roof Lads like teammates we've all got on really well. So first the first half of season wasn't that great the first race I crash so it's like it's not as soon as you start on a bad foot, it doesn't really help especially for things like selections and stuff. So the first few teams that actions, I didn't get into, and then I went to Pan American championships, which didn't go well, either. It's one of those things. The Breakaway went I wasn't in the Breakaway and then I was out of it for like a week or two after that, because the travel took 50 hours, which is a whole story of Miss flights, but it took 50 hours to get home sleeping in an airport on the floor, wasn't great. So, after that point, it wasn't too good and I had a few like local crit wins but it's not a big deal. And then I started doing well like I got like a streak of a few races locally and then I won and that b which is still a local race. But it's like your men something you know it's one of those things like when your family and your girlfriend come to watch is still a really big ego boost and then the week after that I went to With my sister and girlfriend. So it's like a trip. It is also for national championships, so I won the national TT and road race championships, which is, as I see is huge for me, you know, you get to wear a special Jersey for a year with the flag on it and represent the flag and every race. So that's like awesome. So then yeah, came back and then he was Commonwealth Games, which was basically my biggest target of the year. But leading up to, I didn't know which race is exactly. I'd be doing just Speaker 2 so, how did you even, how do you can get selected to compete in those games? Speaker 1 Yeah, so if the Commonwealth Games in the folks, you get a quota based on National or base and world rankings or Continental ranking. So you get a closer based on rankings and then they also allow quotas for like small the nation's who haven't qualified especially like for the Caribbean Nations. A lot of the smaller Nations they usually get like one or two if they want. I think I think that's why I work. So I'm not entirely sure that we put an application in for the Raiders in PT and trap and we got it all through with other, like an admin area, or we didn't know which races if I was. I think there's a track. I did, we didn't know if I was doing the track until a week before because we saw her in and then Run in and then we have to do a like a last-minute application. So where I want it to focus on track, I didn't get to this is still like amazing experience. So I did the track that wasn't I literally had not written a track by contract for two years jumps, right into the qualifier for points race, which is like crazy. And then anyone who saw like the news, about the big crash, so many people injured and I was like, they're like on the bottom of the track nearly running over Matt walls. Head is crazy. But then so that was like, that was really cool. I knew I didn't have the preparation for it. Didn't get a result, so that's fine. Fine folks on the road race. And I felt really bad. All week is one of those things, you know, whether it's a psychological thing or not. I was almost at the point where I just felt so drained. I guess I was like, am I going to need to put out if this gets much worse, I'm gonna need to pull out. I don't have a huge amount of experience of external pressure or maybe no experience. But I've always found it doesn't faze me so much is because the internal pressure is so much more in comparison. Speaker 2 I mean external or internal read. Like whether it's just the fact that okay, this is like the world stage, you know that everyone that you know, is LTV. I'm sat there with my family. They go. There's red. There's a lot riding on that. I can't imagine what that must have been like, Speaker 1 yeah, I feel like sometimes I don't like to admit pressure or especially like those kind of psychological factors. I don't like I don't want to admit, they can affect me, but you know, of course they do. And yeah, that could have been a factor but anyway, I got to the race. I was like, yeah, I'm just gonna go for the TV time. Like I probably got spat an hour and and I just I thought, you know, going for these moves and I was like I feel absolutely Little like I'm riding with these well, two Speaker 2 Riders. Pure adrenaline, like Speaker 1 your adrenaline. I cannot describe it like the feeling of going through and like people shouting your name and like the crowd screaming and like the flags and the bells unreal, unlike the camera bike unreal like just for that few minutes, I was off the front with Joe was insane. And long story short, I missed the break, it was close but I think that's just what happens? A all the other guys had six people to the team. They can rotate attacks. This guy goes next guy, goes, whatever. For me, it was literally just me. So, it was going to be tricky, and then you combine that with the fact that I wasn't planning on last thing. The whole race. A lot, not planning, but I didn't expect it at least. It was much better 20th. So I was like yeah I'm gonna you know cows in this group let's try and outsprint Mark Cavendish like damn that's gonna be crazy. Speaker 2 Most one the most Tour de France would join equal on the most Tour de France wins ever. Speaker 1 Yeah. So it's like okay. That's I mean I'm last again the competitive thing when it comes to a Sprint it's like a different like I Which I would consider myself a pretty. Like I said, I'm a pretty calm person. I have a pretty good control of anger and it's not that I lose control, but it's like such an intense Focus Channel it. Yeah. It's like fully, like, I don't care. I do not get like that, is it? You look at the video carefully. You can see the random guys like leaning on me a sprinter where a lot of people might back out. It's terrifying. Like if I make like a tiny wrong adjustment, see, I'll go into the barrier and crash and probably get hit by 50 Riders at this speed as well. Like, yeah, exactly. 60k an hour but it's like, just the pure is crazy. What, quite a crazy one, adrenaline does a. But, um, yeah, I was just like, so I'm gonna win this Bunch Sprint. I didn't win the bunch Sprint. I got rolled by eating Vernon but he's World Tour in. Like Speaker 2 I'm not not to convince not Speaker 1 yanking to shake hands, but metals and on the track and all kinds. So like yeah, I'll take Speaker 2 that was Kevin, the Speaker 1 Sprint. He pulled out his friend of like 200 or something, but I can still say I've been my cabbage in it spread like That counts. Speaker 2 Yeah, Speaker 1 so yeah that was obviously like in insane experience and I guess like this. So the highlight of my year and then I think it was a bit quiet after that because I didn't think I'd be doing tour brand of the team that's like the only Pro level say raised in the UK I would have been a six spots. I would have been man eight terms of selection that was a really big surprise and you know, with a week to go, you can't really train for it. You can do a session or two but then you just down to tapering. So, you know, I focus on that a lot. That was again an awesome experience. Stage one had a front flat. It was at the point when bunch of quite controlled. So it's not actually that hard to change a flat and just ride with the Convoy and just steadily wake up. Make your way back to the front but as I crash I put my foot down and my cleat head like cracked. I didn't realize it at the time. So I'm thinking fine, get the wheel changed off. I go again, I go to Pedal of my foot like clipping and it just pulls out straight away and my, oh, that's weird. That never happened by clipping. Put out a survey. I should do that. Like 10 times just Like in denial because I'm like, Michael he's never broken in my entire life. But how is this happening now? And I knew I didn't have spare shoes. I had special shoes at home but they weren't set up. So I was like damn, what do I do? So:, I'm like Asian. Who happens that we happen to my coach. He's a DS for the team is, like, rummaging around in the boot, he finds some other guys spare shoe, and it happens to be like one size smaller, but you know, that's nothing, it fits. So whack the shoe on his cleats, half and resell Fin and Lake Lanier enough position to the point where after five minutes of riding, a Even notice. So yeah, had proved our point. The Convoy is long gone, so had to actually smash it with a bit of help from the car, but obviously, that's normal. Absolutely excited to go back on, so that was fine. But I stage one stage two, like I was not looking pretty had a crash, had to write the last 30 case. Solo stage 3 was that was pretty Grim, but finish and then Sage for that's where I finally cracked involves cracks in the morning. To be honest is one of those days. You know, when you wake up and you just know that it's gonna be a tough day, and lo and behold your legs. Just haven't got it. Don't show up. No, exactly. So that was the end of that but Speaker 2 I suppose you weren't doing too much stage racing. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong but a lot of the racing you doing with one day big races will quit. Speaker 1 I've only done one stage race before in my life and that was a three-day stage race, the item and all this year as well. Speaker 2 So do you think that probably contributed towards I mean obviously it's it's towards the back end of the season you've got a lot of fatigue from racing and even if tapering you know, you doing afford a very tough. Yeah, top-level race. Speaker 1 And yeah, I mean, I think for me, the main thing is that I got out of it like, obviously it's motivating to see that level but cycling has so many levels is unreal. It's unreal. Like, so there are guys, like the client some of the more climber you guys on our team getting dropped and then it sort of bunch Sprint. They call it a bunch Sprint. At the end of this day, when it's actually listing Savage. But, you look at a guys that say it's Bowl, he's a sprinter. And like, there are guys, who are like, probably describe themselves clients. Getting drawers and this guys getting around and then sprinting and it's like okay that just helps you appreciate the levels. And it's like what you thought a sprinter was like a sprinter is a myth, I'll select my mouth that the concept of a sprinter is a myth is nowadays or I don't know if it ever wasn't the case, but a sprinter is someone who's like a phenomenally good right bike. Rider overall all around, they can climb Etc. And it also just just so happen to have like 1500 watts in the tank at the end of a really hard stage. So, it's Like, just checking that perspective, it's not, it's definitely motivational. I can see that level, but it's also like, okay. Let's just let's rethink like, how I view myself as a Speaker 2 writer. I suppose it tips the importance or the significance toward being well-rounded and being just having a huge FTP and being able to go above and below and recover. The context in which you're riding when you're doing by E12 crits, or even a, even a nap, be when it's like a reduced Bunch finished, you can lean on your Sprint a bit more. And I mean, obviously your 90 times or 95 times out of 100 you you're going to win a bunch Sprint because you just you've got that kick. But then yeah when you race at that level you realize okay crumbs of like I have to have a 400 watt FTP and be able to do 500 watts for two minutes. I'll beat you climb. Yeah exactly. And then do 1500 watts for 10 seconds. Yeah. That's right. Yeah that's awesome. That it sounds like you had a really good season. There's a couple things I kind of wanted to delve into off-the-cuff and when you're sort of making the Vision between Racing for Grenada and Racing for the UK. Obviously, you've grown up in the UK but you'll like, you don't have your loyalty completely one on the other, like, you are the exact product of both, but did you feel at all? That? It was unfair to, like, other people from Grenada? Who'd, like lived there when you went, like, when you ever flew over and did the Championships, but what was the competition level, like and was there any part of you that thought it was easy or Speaker 1 not? There is, there is a bit of that. So it's like, I've always considered myself half and half British, I don't, I don't I like to say, I'm one of the other but you know the way things about you have to be one or the other for sport for cycling for all kinds of things. And obviously growing up and starting cycling in England. You just automatically cycling British cycling, a British, that's just whatever. And then you know, exploring like the idea of changing obviously opens up opportunities, like I'm not going to pretend like that wasn't a factor in making that decision. That's another one of the things. Like I talked about the whole identity thing, and I feel like that part of my identity had been Not left a bit but to a degree like it it just, it falling a little bit and I wasn't I guess on a personal level representing that side of my Heritage as much as I'd like to. So that was another thing that helped to help make that decision. So then yeah, like you said, going over to Racer the level is lower than in the UK. As you can imagine it's a smaller much smaller. It's 100,000 people who live there. The cycling Community is, is smaller as well. You know, there's like probably 20, guys, maybe 20, 30 toe, little the national championships. It wasn't a huge field. All so yeah, the level the level is low it. I want it was an easy race because I pushed myself hard, but I got the win, you know? I was able to win both sent. Yeah, I do like, it's a tricky one. Obviously, I'm in the advantage position to have access to the racing in the UK and like the coaching and all that kind of Speaker 2 stuff. So, I guess just the advantage, the, the overall privilege of, like, living in a very wealthy Nation compared to. Speaker 1 Yeah, we exactly. There is, there's all that. I'm an advantage. Um, but equally I go over there, not my the way I, you know, talk to myself about it's like I'm now able to represent that bring more exposure later, increased cycling and hopefully that further developed. And you know, when I'm in a position to I would absolutely love to give back and in some way help, you know, whether that's by like getting bikes Foley over there. That's a big goal of mine further down the line to be able to facilitate that. And then everybody, I said, I recently sent a couple of barrels of kit Over. So I did like a donation on my Instagram, where I said, hey guys, you've got any spare kit Parts, whatever cinnamon and I'll post a link with Grenada so I had, because I had a bunch of Kit, like so much there from all teams. So yeah, literally, a few weeks ago, we sent a couple of barrels because the end I was going to be one battle ended up sending to cause we got so much, you know, helmets shoes kit, just to make it that, that step to starting cycling a little bit easier. So, hopefully, that increases and, you know, now, because I've done well at Commonwealth Games and Caribbean championships, the government is now funding. It, As well. So now we're able to send a bigger team to the next Caribbean championships. So there are these other guys are getting more opportunities as well. So is slowly like picking up and yeah I'm happy to help her Speaker 2 amazing. I think that's a fantastic perspective and attitude to have towards it. I mean that's that's all you can be really, isn't it? It's a question that I wondered but I don't want to ask it in cynicism. You can't have answered it with with that answer. But I did also have one other question which you'll provide the answer. So I can't I kind of oh I already know what the answer is going to be in terms of going down that route but again take this as a devil's advocate the cynics speaking. Yeah, no worries, no worries. For example, I'm here and I'm seeing you taking these opportunities which you're obviously working as hard as you can given your available circumstances. But from an outsider who sees that you have maybe been given opportunities that you wouldn't have otherwise been given because of the facts that you're mixed race and you've got the grenade and Heritage what we'll do Saying to someone who he would say, I will tear your heart wouldn't have given the opportunity to you otherwise or because that, you know, part of me think that. But I didn't want to know that Speaker 1 list. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's nothing like that before. Have you people do say that and it's like, I think the best way to explain it or at least the way I and a lot of people view. It is that There are an unknowable number of opportunities that would have been not given to me or taken over me or they didn't exist purely because of the fact that I am back, like a simple as that, like, racism does exist. And I think what's hard about explaining it to other people is that for the majority of the time? It's not it's not like explicit, it's not obvious, it's always subtle. It's always almost always especially in the UK just for the nature of the culture here. Like it's not like America where people Often, you know, saying slurs or actualize that for the most part, it's just is it's like that that subtle thing that might be the difference between you getting opportunity, an opportunity and another guy again. It's unknowable like it's impossible to know how much but I know for a fact that it exists from the various occasions that things that are obvious do happen, and it, I don't even bother like trying to think about how much there is because you'll just drive yourself insane. All, I know is that he does exist and that's the reason why I'm Getting these other opportunities like these from from Te'o. There is there's a reason why. Well, there are many reasons, but that is one reason why there's a lack of diversity in cycling, I think, especially at a competitive level. So, yeah, I think it's, it's fair to, to get some opportunities as a sort of, you know, I mean, just to balance things out. I mean, you'll never be 100% fair. You could argue for Forever on what exactly is worth how much. But there, definitely is an element. of a It won't change is not existing because of racism. So it's nice to get some opportunities back. It will struggle will take a very long time to happen naturally. And I think it's always something that I subconsciously. Well, I didn't realize how much of an effect that made seeing someone who looks like you succeeding in the area trying to looking back. So I don't know if, you know, Nations on one beast-core in Justin Williams, they had YouTube stuff like similar to some of the stuff I make at least where they'd have these GoPro montages. Of them like doing these crates and winning and it's like it's awesome. And I was I was watching those four. I was like, literally but literally before I got my first bike, like I would be watching these videos like that's awesome. Like that. So cool. And it didn't even occur to me that seeing like other Black Riders like succeeding made the difference but they were like they're the only the time at least they were pretty much the only guys putting content out there doing that. You know, there's also like grass and the hearty who's made pretty similar videos, but yeah, it definitely makes a difference. Difference. It makes a huge Speaker 2 difference. I think, then you are also being that for other people in what you're doing now. Speaker 1 Exactly. That's what I'm hoping. I mean again that wasn't the motivation to do it in the first place like it's happening more and more now couple weeks ago someone I met is like yeah my kids are half to make and they watch your videos they think you're like absolutely amazing. They love you. But I was like, oh my God, I could cry like it's just hearing that and I hear it like a fair amount. You never even dream or think about being able to make that kind of impact. People, but you do. And that's one level with my own like successes to Speaker 2 me, say for example, in some hypothetical World in ten years time, you won the Tour de France, that would pale in comparison. Compared to the thousands of people that that would Inspire seeing you win, the Tour de France, if I make sense great discussion so far, and I kind of wanted to bring things great, drudgery to close. But I guess we're looking at from where you are now, where do you hope to go in the coming seasons and not just likely as well? What is life? If what your aspirations more broadly as well. Speaker 1 So I'll start I think I'll start with more broadly. Actually I think like from a personal development perspective the last the couple years from Kobe 220 2020 and 2021 I'll never say like a red to fire like a rebound, right? So I was really focused on, you know, like I said, bring up my confidence and just sort of. Yeah, it is focusing on my personality from that were like it's not like I wasn't happy my personality but just like bringing the level of energy that I would do a video or like talking to you now. I was uneasy talking on camera, then maybe sometimes talking in person or these people, I don't know. I think that was the crucial thing just being more, more confident. So I asked you, like I said, big improvements and now, like I said, the last couple months have been development for me in like planning. So that's an aspect where I just have to admit. I lacks quite a bit by videos. The reason why they're so sporadic is just like I wasn't planning for them. So now I'm trying to, you know, I started planning my content, I started planning my food which Like again the last few months, the last couple months even has made a huge difference, you know, I've always known how to like cook a healthy meal but I when you plan out your never at that point, where you haven't got anything left, when you have to resort to something that's substandard. You just go, what? You just bang? Bang, bang, it's doing it, right? Speaker 2 Continue like meal prepping and things as well. Speaker 1 Not quite meal prepping, I thought like sometimes I'll meal prep, but the quantities is just I so much just because I especially because I so much food as well. Like I'll feel a walk and like that one meal. I'm not just like the vegetables and the sauce and stuff, and then it's a whole 300 grams of pasta or something. So, I usually Speaker 2 cyclists would know. Yeah, exactly. 100 grams of pasta sounds soap. Seem to pretty much everyone I've spoken with. Yeah, uni. But it's like, you know, without it what you're gonna dig like you just gonna not get enough calories in and just gradually become a skeleton. So you, you need to feel yourself. Speaker 1 Oh yeah. The amount of like 1,500 calorie bowls of pasta and and They'd have had. It's just yeah, Speaker 2 it's definitely on the cob hype train. Speaker 1 Oh, absolutely. Once I discovered, that is mind blown. It really is my I could so I could do. All right about that, but I'll just I'll brush over Speaker 2 it for now, not quite doing Rider level. But yeah, Speaker 1 not quite so Bananas a Day but maybe, but yeah. Planning for food, even if it's more of like an internal plan, but just, you know, thinking ahead and being aware of it combine that the content plan that's like where I'm making big gains personally at the moment. So that's what I want. Increase that to the point where it's like a second nature is doing my training, is because it's so hard to focus on all the different things at once. When there are routine, it's like you can separate it and you can start to focus on other things with with your energy and then for cycling. So I haven't announced my team for next year, but I am moving team. So, hopefully announcement coming fairly soon. I'm really, I'm really looking forward to next year. I should have some really like, a good good opportunities throughout the site. Yet I'm super excited for that and then Then at the end of the year, there's a lot. So I so much, there's World Champs, which is in Scotland, like is closed again. So, so Commonwealth Games in Birmingham, couple hours, drive up the road, three hours drive up the road next year, World Champs, I mean it's a bit further it's in Scotland. So it's like it's not far far, you Speaker 2 know, hopefully are you competing in the world Champs Road Race next year? Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Well I would have been able to, I was gonna do it last year and then because I was ill, I just couldn't recover in time, so I don't know form. So the last minute I pulled out Because it would have cost a grand to go. It's because of the time of Cobra test. They were so expensive. So yeah. But this year again, it's Australia. I'm not spending a grand goes to Australia but next year style, be super close. And then Pan American games, which is like there's like Commonwealth Games, but for Pan America, so America Canada, all South America, all of that. So that'll be a reader. That's a big Focus actually. I'd love to win a medal session on the track. I think I want to dedicate bit more time to track because That yeah, laughter track. Anyway, then after that, 2024 Olympics, it's crazy to think there's a kid. I wouldn't even dare to dream about going to the Olympics, like it's just, not even like a limp like that thing on TV. That happens every four years, that's cool. Whatever. Now I've got a pretty, like, a really good opportunity. Like, you know, pretty good chance of going to the Olympics. It's just a case of qualifying. So get, you know, just need a few CI points, which I should be able to do over the next 18 months and then, yeah. And I've all what I've always From, I don't know how long, maybe like 10 years or something. I did. I'm not big on tattoos. Like, I don't want any tattoos, but if I ever get a tattoo, I'm I want Olympic rings tattoo, like, haven't gone to the Olympics. Oh yeah. That's a massive goal. I'm looking forward to that. Where'd you get it? Ah, on the armor thing. Just like a forearm, something like that. It's got to be obvious. It's like an Flex. Speaker 2 Yeah, Finish Line. This pose. Oh yeah. Olympic rings. Yeah class. Speaker 1 Even the Olympic just going to the Olympics on its own. If that was the highest I could get and I could you know I tried with everything every fiber and I couldn't I couldn't get any further than that. I couldn't get any better results, then I'll be happy. Even if like from now, I don't get a better result but I committed like 100. I did everything right? Learn sure. Like then, I wasn't good enough. That's what I can accept that but I know I know I've got more in the tank. I'm just going to keep pushing Until well, yeah, I'm convinced like, you know, I've got the confidence to think that I will get better results and I will keep improving Speaker 2 100% fantastic to hear that thing especially on track as well. You, you see the track, obviously, and gently, you like your physiology in the way you've trained as well, and the fact that you were able to jump into the Commonwealth Games and get through, I mean, I know, given the circumstances with the crash and things, but still it's like, okay imagine if you train. Speaker 1 Yeah, I imagine if I wrote track, Back and Speaker 2 everyone is done. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's funny. It's funny. You say that. But yeah, my physiology is like track Rider physiology. But just from a commercial point of view, there's not really many levels, you know, you have to Speaker 2 it's either Olympic team or nothing. Yeah, Speaker 1 exactly. Exactly. But luckily, now with Grenada that is like, that is an option and obviously I want to do road as well, but if I wanted to just do track, you know, they support that so that's quite, it's just good. Yeah, it's yeah, it's cool, it's Speaker 2 cool. I see you're building in the gym as well and into the into a gym. I want to say tick-tocks but you know, the gym rules and my lion does Speaker 1 not is just Jim reels. That's all it is. Yeah, Speaker 2 literally the same for me. That's all I hear is hardstyle. And people people seeing, like middle-aged woman the gym and calling them, mummy, and all that kind of stuff. It's all my gosh. Like, what a strange like end of the internet, just to be a part Speaker 1 of. Yeah, I know. It's Like you probably noticed a half of my reals inspired by like Jim taught grills, but yeah. I'm looking forward to get back in the gym. Actually go see all season. I've got an amazing and gym coach. He's a, he's got a gym in Winchester and I like he's just awesome. I started with him last year and it's just like having that separate coach for Jim. It's been like game-changing like a personal coach. He's actually there with. You is just a different step. Again, just another game on the progression. Speaker 2 Do do a few quick, fire questions. What we did we did have an a couple of questions. Nice to see that there were sent in and you'll you can guess afterwards who set them in. But before before do those couple questions I do, you mentioned your sister's a big gym goer who can squat more urea sister? Speaker 1 Oh I think she might she might she might get it. I think she could. She can definitely hit for us more. She's hit frosting. Unreal, not, yeah. Speaker 2 I see some of the videos of these. These costing him for us. Mike how many plates? Speaker 1 I know she as she did this like one 24 reps. So I think I could add that later but not by much. Is that actually I like it's one of those things. She's only like side doing it properly in the last Also and it's like, wow, I'm so proud proud brother. I know it's so cool. Speaker 2 Amazing. Okay, first question comes in and it says big spoon or little spoon. Speaker 1 I don't know he's on that but I like a 50-50, you know, mix up some days, it's big spoon, but some days you just feel like the small screen, you know, Speaker 2 the night after taught the night after stage 4. The next one, I'm not sure if it's a question, but it just says like something to do with the cafe being 5 miles away, but never actually being that Speaker 1 close. Yeah, no, that's that's Jacobs fault. Speaker 2 How do you feel when that moment Speaker 1 angry pure rage? If you're no, no, no, I'm not angry. I'm Speaker 2 disappointed. Awesome. Well, I think that wraps it up, although it's been so interesting to hear like the Just let the journey objectively. Like it's a very easy just to go 2017. I did this 2018 of this, but it's like how you've developed as a person through that and how how you've got to where you are today. I've also some of the guests have been on so far. They've all asked the same question, which is made it kind of funny. But if you have any questions for me, this can be a one second Gap in post-production, so it's Speaker 1 a little ones, okay? Okay. Okay. What's your long-term goal for the podcast and like I guess your platform in general, Speaker 2 So I really saw this as a bit of a Rebrand or a refresh like you say, with the way you've developed personally in terms of planning and things, I definitely feel like this, this next chapter of my life, I want to go down the route of psychology in the future post-grad and maybe do a masters and maybe even do a PhD. I don't know, but I feel like I've developed in the skills of leadership and communicating and Editing as well. And I really want to just share that and I'm so interested in people's psyche and different angles and perspectives. And so, the aim with this really is to explore my own curiosity and produce cool reels. I guess like that you are like, I've made quite a few in the pipeline of just like training staff or motivational stuff, which you can say it's cliche but those things help people, when they see them. Speaker 1 Yeah, it's motivate. It's all motivation. And yeah, it works. Speaker 2 And this up, that's a plan. And really with this is to try and I guess the primary aim isn't to grow it. It's the primary aim isn't to grow it necessarily but it's just to have really interesting guests and almost I guess as a byproduct of having like guests with a good following and who are good people, then it means it's like you can stepping-stone your way up in terms of podcast because if I was asking like a professional cyclist or someone who owns, lots of business, Speaker 1 Is Speaker 2 to come on a podcast because I'm really interested in that psychology. It's like well I can then show all the people have had on before and then your and then that person comes on and then it's even more people to kind Speaker 1 of. Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. But obviously, I don't want that to be the aim. Like, I just, I find people really interesting and I love understanding it so and hopefully other people do as well. I mean, I guess that's what that's the only reason why you'd listen to this. Yeah, yeah. That's kind of That's kind of where I'm coming at it from. But as you've proved with consistency, I think I just got to stick out this and he's like 90 or 95% of podcast or something. Don't get past ten episodes. So Speaker 1 that's it. That's the first name, exactly like half the people just as long as you're not quitting, you already beating 90% of people so and then after that, it's just keep on going and commit precisely. Speaker 2 But anyway, thank you everyone, for listening, thank you read for for coming onto the book also, really appreciate you. You're not good time. Don't stop me. People don't know which I probably would have, would be pretty obvious by this point but how can people follow you? Speaker 1 Instagram, the underscore register? Yeah, YouTube is the Reza so that's pretty much. My only active social media Zion Tick-Tock but that's just the same as Instagram. These do so yeah. Speaker 2 Awesome. Thanks for listening everyone.