Speaker 1So it had been building for a while, but I think the moment where I like subconsciously, I was like, I am probably an alcoholic. But the it was in my the summer of 2018 and I went to Oceaga, the music festival. Yeah. And I blacked out for 24, no, 48 hours, blacked out for 48 hours. It was Friday. And then that's the last thing I remember is like Friday at 11 a.m. And then it all goes black. And then all of a sudden it's like nighttime. And I'm like, oh, what are we going to do tomorrow, guys? And they were like, it's Sunday, like we're leaving. And you've been fucking terrible to deal with this whole time.
Speaker 2What a bad hangover to wake up to. Hi there. Welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and addiction. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms. I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for help. Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering Out Loud pod or by email at Recovering Out Loud pod at gmail.com. You are no longer alone. Okay, I want to I have to tell this story.
Speaker 3Okay. Oh, my God.
Speaker 2No, it's it's it's it's embarrassing for me, not for you. Okay. Yeah. So we've been friends for a while. Yeah. And I saw it last time I saw you before the last time I saw you, which is at a gathering for recovery.
Speaker 1Us a gathering.
Speaker 2Yeah. Gathering for recovery. And we were catching up and I was like, do you remember the last time I saw you? And you were like, oh, yeah. Yeah. And I was like, in my head, this is funny. I want to get your perspective on this, too, because it's interesting to me. Again, I thought nobody knew what was going on. So we it was the winter and we were at another recovery gathering. I saw you hadn't seen you for a while. Yeah. And I remember saying hi to you. And I remember leaving that gathering early and I went to the bar and you texted me after. And you were like, hey, are you OK? Is everything I thought nothing of that. I was like, oh, she has no idea. She's just like being a good person. Right. And then I come to see you like a few last week or two weeks ago. And you're like, yo, you did not look good, bro.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was like, but it was very obvious. Like, just tell me about it, because I have known you in recovery and I've seen you. Like with the light shining through you and you were like, you did not look like you like your body language. You were so you were like slumped over. I'd never seen you like slumped over like that. I've always seen you like very proud and like and you just you were covering your face and you weren't making eye contact. And that's like so not like you. And I was sitting across the room and I saw you sneak in. And like there was just this like second, like sixth sense that lit up in me. And I was like, he's not OK. And I just knew I just knew. But it was all these like telltale signs where that's just not how you carry yourself when you're well. Yeah. Like and I don't mean the general you. I mean, like you. So interesting. I was like I was going to I was like, OK, I'm going to talk to him after. And then you left.
Speaker 2And I was like, yeah, I showed up late and then I left early.
Speaker 1I was like, kick back.
Speaker 2No, but I appreciate that. But I didn't try to reach out. Yeah. And I appreciate that. I mean, it's I again, my perspective was you nobody. You had no idea.
Speaker 1Oh, I knew.
Speaker 2You just thought I was going to. I told you some bullshit excuse, too. And I was at the bar and I was in the middle of a relapse. Right.
Speaker 1I knew immediately that you were not OK.
Speaker 2That's so funny.
Speaker 1Yeah. And you were like, I'm fine. And I was like, oh, I actually had thought in the back of my mind. I was like, I hope he isn't real. I either thought that you had relapsed or that you were about to.
Speaker 2I think I was I was in the middle of it. So I wasn't like that. I went to a bar right after that moment. I was already decided. I was going to the meeting for for Facebook. Face value for somebody else, showing them that I was, you know, getting into back on the track of recovery. And it just goes back to this point of like, man, you cannot get anybody else over. Right. Or you cannot like you really do have to want it for yourself.
Speaker 4A hundred percent.
Speaker 2So that leads me into your story. I guess my story. Thanks for coming down. I don't know why I didn't ask you earlier. It's like you're a perfect person for this. I've known you for a long time and you're a great talker and communicator. And you also have the light. I know it's a totally when you say like. The light shines through. Yeah. And that's why I love recovery. I'm going to shut up in a second. I promise. No, I love it.
Speaker 5I love it.
Speaker 2I love recovery because you get to see people that have that body language, darkness, blackness. Yeah. No soul. Yeah. Turn into this lighthouse. Yeah. Really.
Speaker 1Like truly like a lighthouse, like in the storm. And there's like a big storm going on. And I think for me, like I did not know that I was in a storm because I grew up. I'm from Toronto. I grew up in Toronto. And I've been thinking about this a lot. Recently, where when I started drinking, I truly just thought I was having fun. Like truly, because we were watching shows like the OC and One Tree Hill and they drink excessively in there in high school. And I was like, well, I'm just like mirroring what I'm seeing. I like started out as a binge drinker in high school. So it was just on the weekends. And then I was really high performing. So keyword is like performing. Like I knew how to talk the talk. I knew how to get good grades. I knew how to get teachers and people to like me. But like on the inside, I was like suffering. I was also like a gifted athlete. I was very gifted in cross-country. And I did all of that, not because I enjoyed it, but because it got me love and attention. When I'm born and raised in Toronto, when I was six years old, it was like me and my mom and my dad. And then I remember one day just like seeing the trees. And I was like, oh, my God, I'm going to be a truck like all packed to the brim. And it was all my dad's stuff. And even when you're six, you like know what's going on. I was like, what's going on? Where's dad going? And mom was like, oh, we're going on vacation and dad's going to drive and meet us there. I was like, OK, cool. And she and I was like, where are we going? She's like, we're going to London, England. And I was like, how is he going to drive there? Isn't there like an ocean? And she's like, oh, don't worry about it. Like he's going to he'll get there. I was like, OK, so we get there and we don't go to a hotel. We go to like an apartment building. And I had been fortunate enough to travel when I was a kid, so I I knew that it wasn't a hotel. And that's what my I was like, where's dad? What's going on? And that's what my mom was like, hey, so your dad and I aren't together anymore and we live here now. So it was like it for me, it was traumatizing. Like I understand that there are so many different forms of trauma and this is like a privileged form of trauma. But for me as a six year old. Child who like literally was ripped, like in my eyes was like ripped away from everything I knew my friends, my family, my home, my city, like everything. So that really caused like a lot of anxiety and fear. And I blacked out that year that we lived there, like I don't remember. I was put in therapy and I was like, I have no idea what's going on. And we eventually came back to Toronto. Things were OK. But from then on, I was like very high strung. Like my emotions were huge. I couldn't leave my mom's side. I was like big, like abandonment stuff. And I had no idea what was going on. And I was always just like I was just like, when's when's the rug going to get pulled out from under me? Like, I don't know what's happening. And that's why I performed so well, because I saw like, OK, people will stick around. People will like me. People will praise me if I do X, Y, Z. So that's what I did. And then in high school, when I was 14, I was just doing a lot. I was like involved in like the leadership council and sports and I was the grade nine representative for the elementary schools. Like I just I've always been kind of moved into those like more leadership front of the room type roles, but on the inside, I'm like, oh, my God, so hard. And then I discovered drinking at a party when I was 14 and I was dared to drink ten shots in ten minutes. And that's when I did that. And I was like, oh. Let's go. Like, let's. This is amazing. I blacked out and it was exactly what I wanted, which was like to not have to deal with all that stuff and not have to be responsible and not have to have people want something from me because I was just blackout drunk and I was like unreliable when I was blackout drunk. So that was like a nice feeling. Yeah.
Speaker 2You can sort of kick the shoes off, right? Yeah. And I don't have to perform. And but it's funny because at the same time. You you are getting the vanity metrics from it, where it's like, look how cool she is. She can drink that much.
Speaker 1And exactly. And people like really praised me for it. And I was like, oh, OK, this is the type of praise I want. I don't want the type of praise where I have to work really hard or like I don't want the type of phrase where I have to like. That's a good point. You know what I mean? Like, it was just easy to get praise through drinking and party. I never thought about it like that. Yeah. That's like how it worked for me. Yeah. And then things were fine. Like, fine. Like, I think there was always so much drama, but it was on the weekends and I was still getting good grades. I was still in sports. So everything was fine. And my mom was like, you're fucked. And I was like, back off, get away from me. Like, I'm still doing all the things that you want. So it eventually I think it was like grade 11, 12. That's when I started to, like, move away from things because drinking and partying was just easier. So I stopped competing. at a high level of cross country. on like the u of t varsity team i was on track to like run at the collegiate level like all that stuff and partying was just like so much easier so i just chose that instead and uh then i i went to school in montreal again drinking ages 18 so i was like okay here we go um and then yeah it all
Speaker 2kind of like snowballs from there what's the moment where you first thought that it was a problem or you needed to change something um so it had been building for a while but i think the
Speaker 1moment where i like subconsciously i was like i am probably an alcoholic but the it was in my the summer of 2018 and i went to oceaga the music festival yeah and i blacked out for 24 no 48 hours blacked out for 48 hours it was friday and then that's the last thing i remember is like friday at 11 a.m. and then it all goes black and then all of a sudden it's like nighttime and i'm like oh what are we gonna do tomorrow guys and they were like it's sunday like we're leaving and you've been fucking terrible to deal with this whole time what a bad hangover to wake up to exactly so yeah and then there was a couple there was a friend who i wasn't like i was she was a more of an acquaintance but she was like the only person that would say it to me straight like this is not okay like the like what you're doing right now is absolutely not okay and i'm like oh absolutely not okay and like you need to get help and that's the first moment that it like really sunk in and then it took a few months after that before i eventually went to treatment
Speaker 2everybody needs that person in their life that is such a in like for me it's my friend tyler just no bullshit you're being a fucking idiot yeah and like you hate to hear it in the moment yeah but it's it's i will forever be grateful for that guy yeah because you know he would never take any of my bullshit yeah and without that person in our lives nothing changes yeah and this was like
Speaker 1shout out to marissa she was like my good friend's girlfriend now wife and like she just was like what the fuck is going on like this is not you and nobody else in my life was able to do that just because we were all drinking the same way so yeah um sobriety has been incredible and then for me because athletics was such a big part of my childhood marrying like fitness and sobriety has been like massive in my recovery like it's changed so much for me um because you have all i like i remember this feeling right like the shoulders are up here and i'm like oh my god i have so much like pent-up energy yeah and but when you're a kid when you're like a little kid on the playground yes you can like let out that energy and not have to worry about the performance but when you layer in like sports and athletics like it can be really intense and it can be really toxic like your worth is so tied to the result
Speaker 2yeah there's a lot of good um lessons to be learned sorry i like sink into this couch sometimes this couch is very you're sitting normally on it i don't know what's wrong with me i don't know i'm just also i also weigh like two pounds what's that supposed to mean my body dysmorphia right now i was like that no no you're fine i'm gonna do this because i forgot to do it but i have to do that we have to clap yeah because it sinks all the things oh i didn't do that right no okay good a lot losing it the benzos uh took away my memory quite a bit um i was gonna ask you who you saw at oceaga but i guess you don't i do remember we saw anderson pack i remember that that's all i remember i went to oceaga in 2017 um in sobriety with people that i was uh in recovery with yeah and i was like oh my god i'm gonna do this i'm gonna do this i'm gonna have you ever been on a vacation with people in recovery no i've only been on vacation where i'm the only one it's so exhausting is it well you know how like opinionated and like picky we can be right addicts are we're really tough to deal with oh yeah we have a lot of there's a lot going on in here that we can't use substances to fix no and it's like they're we're like a little high maintenance yeah yeah so it's like when you try i've been on a few now with recovery people and it's very hard like you really have to be go with the flow like otherwise nothing because there's gonna be the alpha guy or girl that's like we're doing
Speaker 1this and then we're doing that we're planning and then i think that when i go on vacation i'm like oh i'm so go with the flow like i've been practicing you know the principles and all my affairs and i don't have whatever and then i get there and i'm like i'm like what's the plan where are we going and it's crazy how all that stuff just like comes up oh god um i do want to talk
Speaker 2about fitness yeah i'm happy you brought it up because uh yeah and since i've i've known you you definitely i i i don't think you jumped into it right away when you got sober yeah because i remember seeing a shift from you um posting about it and uh going to the gym and joining the company that you're at yeah um yeah because you were you were at i remember you were in um uh the retail sector
Speaker 1before yep right yeah so how did you make the change so um i was at lululemon and i got that job when i was like six or seven months sober and uh i we get when you're in a lululemon employee part of your benefits or perks is like you get a credit card with like a certain amount of money to do group fitness oh yeah no way yeah so when i was a part-time employee at the time so i got 150 bucks a month it was called sweaty pursuits i don't know if they still have it but 150 bucks a month to use at group fitness and every store has ambassadors so people who own businesses or who are representations of lululemon's values in the community and that's how i met the owners of f45 young and egg uh chris and lena hi guys um and they that's when i started i was like okay because i was doing yoga and it just wasn't feeling like enough like i was moving and that was great i was starting to feel safe in my body huge like first year of sobriety was like okay let me just not be a crazy person 24 7 and then starting like to go into that second year when i was like okay i still have all this pent-up rage like then the rage starts to come out and i had a lot of it so i was like okay why don't i try f45 and it fucking changed so much for me because i it was a controlled environment where i could let out some of that aggression but in like a very structured way is 45 minutes so i couldn't really make an excuse i was like okay a meeting's an hour what's 45 minutes right like i can layer this into my day holy shit the the post-workout clarity that comes where the voices just stop like where you're not like when you're done a hard workout and there's just silence that's like my medicine right like it made me i was like oh my god i didn't know i could feel this way i didn't know so i started i was doing it once a week and then i started doing it twice a week and then i started doing it three and four times a week and it wasn't it didn't become obsessive which was really bad and i was like oh my god i didn't know i could feel this way it was like the first time in my life where i wasn't like i was enjoying something but i wasn't obsessing over it i was just learning and i was meeting cool people who weren't fucking drunk all the time and i was meeting people who weren't in recovery but had the same values that i did now which is massive i think it's really important to hang out with people that aren't i just want
Speaker 2to quickly interject there i think it's it's as simple as hanging out with people that are working on themselves exactly in some capacity exactly love it yeah and it was like it was
Speaker 1it inspired me so much that i ended up quitting my job at lululemon and chris and lena really inspired me so much like the community they created there is amazing it's like the fitness industry can be very toxic as well so that's something i've been discovering is like there's a stigma too holy shit and there's places where it's it's less about actually getting better and more about looking better and like being seen and like getting in getting the instagram shot and like getting the perfect video and i've totally forgotten about it i've totally forgotten about it i've fallen victim to that because how could you not and uh what chris and lena created there was like there is we're not we're not fucking doing that we're here there's no mirrors in f45 like we're here to work hard have a good time and like be good to people you know yeah and i mean all the
Speaker 2posts i've ever seen from you in in that area is like you just working hard right yeah and i'll be honest like it it is motivating to just like watch someone do hard shit when i'm sitting on the couch and i've actually been struggling with this lately is is getting into the gym right yeah um i do want to touch to it i loved what you said about um uh obsessive being obsessive because i i think you know this but i went through my relapse was was because of it started with steroids wasn't because of steroids very vanity uh facing i i had this hole inside of me and at the end of the day that's what it is right it's like i'm missing a part of there's something in here that i don't feel seen body dysmorphia whatever you want to call it i can fix that yeah and steroids are a huge another huge part ozempic as well i i dabbled into that too the more i've been talking about this too by the way the more i'm finding a lot
Speaker 1of people are struggling with this ozempic thing and steroids is crazy like so i basically what happened is i i realized i wanted to help people in a more constructive and meaningful way so i moved into being a personal trainer and i had no because like thankfully i didn't struggle with an ozempic but so many people do and what happens is people be everybody's obsessive everybody is obsessive look at like the culture that we're in and humans like anthropologically humans were not designed to view themselves all the time like if you think about it there were no mirrors back like way back in the day like you would maybe view yourself in a reflection in the river like and now we've engineered this experience and existence where we are constantly viewing ourselves and it fucks with our head so people are obsessed with how they look and how they feel and i'm not one to and it's it's crazy it blew my mind and at one point i was like oh my god i don't have the tools to help people because i don't struggle with xyz but i i do have the tools to help people because i know what it's like to not be able to look in the mirror and i know what it's like to shift perspective to like okay what can i do today mm-hmm or what can i do today mm-hmm or what can i do for the next 45 minutes right and people really struggle with food yeah crazy and i yeah and it's really sad because i think sugar is like the it's like alcohol and sugar it's like those things are massive and i think also statistically in recovery at least for females an eating disorder is the next thing that someone will pick up because you're basically what happened you've mentioned it as well as like there's a hole there's a gaping hole where my addiction filled and if i take the addiction out of it but i'm not filling it with the things that's actually going to make me feel whole and happy and whatever then
Speaker 2something else is going to slip in if i'm not careful shopping gambling and people say oh this
Speaker 1is a good thing exercise is a good thing it's healthy it's good for me it's like oh my god you do not need to you do not need to work out three hours a day you do not need to be here you don't need to come like you can do so much for your body and really enjoy what you're doing and i find it's hard to explain this to people i'm not knocking wanting to have a goal that is based on vanity and aesthetic if that is what you believe is truly going to make you happy then go for it but it's learning the difference between what an extrinsic value is and what an intrinsic value is and this is what i try to share through my story and when i talk to people and work with people one-on-one is like where is that goal coming from is it coming from your parents telling you you needed to be that way is it coming from something you picked up you know in a group of your of your boys like is it where is it coming from or is it really coming from a deep place within you and when a goal comes from that place it's way more fulfilling because if you're going for goals that are out here it's never going to be enough ever yeah and it doesn't matter if you get the big butt or if you get the abs or if you put on the weight or or lose the weight like if you're not doing it for something in here and you're doing it because something out here is telling you to then it's not going to stick yeah
Speaker 2one of my favorite quotes is i heard this on a podcast is you know this girl said no one's gonna be at your funeral talking about what a nice set of you know breasts you had yeah or how nice your ass was exactly that just like i heard it one day and it just hit me i was like man like yeah it's
Speaker 1like so true the most impactful thing anyone's ever done for me in the gym is not like teach me how to do a squat or help me to bench press a certain amount of weight it's like when they when my coach pauses and gives me a different perspective on something right that's where it comes in and i my theory is like anxiety every emotion is just energy and it has to move through my body
Speaker 2and so many of us just sit there and or yeah yeah i mean i'm guilty of it too it's only two i i went to the uh gym today actually and not because i was seeing you that's a part of me was like did i just come here because i wanted to tell everyone that i actually went to the gym today oh my god and uh it's like no it's i i went to the gym um and to your point i felt it's been a while that i've it hasn't been a while since i've been to the gym but it's been a while since i noticed the feeling of pushing hard weight yeah silence yeah and like dopamine too yeah silence and like music's on for me at least and it's just like huh yeah you know that space of that what was i worried about again yeah that clarity where you're like oh it's not that it's
Speaker 1not so bad clarity yeah and it's like finding balance like so for me i do i do strength training three times a week i'll do one maybe two runs a week and then the rest of the time i'm doing yoga like that's that's what my training looks like and it's because if i i've gone one way where i'm like oh my god i started doing high rocks oh no everybody okay everybody's fucking obsessed with high rocks and i was totally i was like yay it's here look at my look at my and i can still be that way but like first of all high rocks it when you actually do it and you go to that event and you're there it's super cool i'm sure it is yeah it's super i just knock
Speaker 2it because it comes with all the other stuff it's a trend and it comes with all the other stuff and
Speaker 1there is some icky there's some ickiness there like there is with every single trend however what so when i started training for it i was training way too much i fucked up my hormones i fucked up my sleep i wasn't eating enough to keep up with the training i was running i went from zero to 100 because i thought i was going to be able to run at the level that i was when i was like younger and that's just like not true so i really like i hurt my knees like and i had to i've been slowly working my way out of that and so now i'm doing like just balanced training so that when i do a high rocks a i don't feel like shit when i get there and b i can actually like me and my partner because you can do doubles where everybody does the running but you split the stations we missed the podium by 30 seconds and that was not my goal my goal was just to like go do it and like not cry because i cried when i did high rocks the first time just because it was hard because it was hard and i heard all the demons started to stuff so that's another reason why i like high rocks because it allows me to compete as an like athlete like back in that mindset but sober and i can do it i can like make it's really making
Speaker 2amends to myself to like my teenage self proving yourself wrong like doing hard shit yeah what's the other one i used to love running and listening to david goggins because he was um pushing through perceived limitations right like i didn't know i could run a marathon i just ran i've done three now i can't run 5k without like crying to your point but it's like anything just consistency
Speaker 1my cousin who's a doctor actually told me that there's like a real scientific reason as to why you cry after you do like endurance sports like that so i was like okay that makes me feel better but there's actually like science behind it because you're pushing yourself to this point you're not stopping and then all of a sudden you get the crash the adrenal crash and the dopamine crash so your body responds by crying yeah
Speaker 2i mean i i agree i think i agree i agree with science yeah i i can relate because it's um i mean crying is emotion that needs to come out in some capacity right i love crying i don't do it
Speaker 1enough i haven't i cried a little bit but i used to like when i first got sober it was like cry cry cry cry cry and then the dams were just like dry and then it came back again but um fitness really channeled that like chaotic emotional energy and like then i you know the pendulum swung where i was doing it too much i was being obsessive about it after i did that first initial stint of f45 i became a trainer and then i was like oh i have to do what everyone else is doing which is like showcase myself on instagram and like i've actually pulled back a little bit because i'm navigating like how to express this and like attract people that are looking to feel better and like change their perspective about themselves and like what's possible for them through movement and whether that's like you know strength training which i'm certified in whether it's like you know conditioning which i'm certified in whether it's like yoga like all of that goes together and i think fitness and movement just kind of like seals it all up because it allows you to let it go right that that like that moment of like oh fuck what was i worried about
Speaker 2yeah and uh i think for me when you talk about obsessive like that just that word just hits me so hard because i've been there so many times in recovery um in addiction as well with obviously with drugs and alcohol but it's just different the justification that you're doing it for the right reason is so deep it runs so deep and uh yeah you'll drive yourself into the ground or into steroids like me yeah and uh i think where i missed the mark was when i got into the steroids yeah i kept keeping it a secret i think so when did that happen that was uh at the eight-year mark oh wow right around the eight-year mark and that's where it was i'm not saying that everyone that does steroids today is going to relapse if you're in recovery because i i actually found this is a how good of a resourceful addict i am i found a community of people that were so online that were sober and doing steroids and i that was my justification yeah and when i say community it
Speaker 3was like four or five people it was all of you guys being like we're fine yeah
Speaker 2And this guy had a podcast and he was sober for 10 years. And so, but I started like, like looking for what is it called um uh oh my god justification yeah but like when you do uh research that's just recent no um something bias it's a bias that you have and i can't think of the word right now but oh my god no i know what you're talking about so it's gonna come to me but it's it's when you're specifically looking for things that are going to support your claim yeah and that's what i was doing i was specifically looking for things that were supporting my way and not the the alternative not the the uh the other thing so one more point before i uh finish my thought here the difference for me with obsessive going to fitness gym whatever your thing is is my relationship with it and what that looks like is there was a point in my sobriety where if i didn't go to the gym six days a week i was a piece of shit that's where i was really got caught up and so today when i missed the gym i'm like try again tomorrow yeah like try honestly i'm my goal right now is three times a week i've been going once a week and i realized i've also been going for a walk every day right but i forget about that but i i do there is a big difference between walking and moving your body and running
Speaker 1and like strength and like actually getting your heart rate up a little bit so that you're like perspiring and like actually like detoxing a little bit and like pumping the blood through your system and i think there there's also this other thing that i think is really important and that's the other side where i okay people are gonna so come for me and whatever it's fine but like all these people who are like pilates pilates pilates pilates and like pilates is fantastic it's great but it's not gonna build muscle and it's not gonna elevate your heart rate to that state it's not that burning like that's it's just not gonna do that so and i think some people are like oh i'm gonna do pilates instead i'm like okay do you want to do that because it's not easier but because you're not challenging yourself in that way where you're like really pumping the blood through your body like and for me it's also this balance of okay i'll try again tomorrow or am i just giving like am i giving myself a pass right it's this sweet spot of like really getting like listening to myself and being like am i letting myself get away with it or do i actually need to rest right now
Speaker 2and that's just listening to yourself
Speaker 1your body being aware right meditation but it's all and it can but that's where the mind kind of comes in right because there's some times where even me i'm like oh i'm not gonna do it today i'm just tired i taught four classes today i don't want to i don't want to work out but really like what i need is to move yeah for me yeah right i need to i've helped other people move all day what is it what is it for me and i think so many people are in this space and you know pilates is great i'm not saying you can't get a good workout with pilates i don't want the girls to i don't want the girls to come after you but there's a there's a difference and um yeah you have to you have to be aware of like where am i giving myself a pass i find it really interesting too the
Speaker 2difference between strength training the way i do it at a good life by myself and being a part of a community and strength training i was listening to a podcast the other day that talked about the rise in single men right like there's a huge problem there's a lot of single men playing video games gym bros whatever the some of them are both right there's a direct correlation between guys that want to get jacked and guys that aren't finding partners in their life there's like a very big contingency of of men that are spending a lot of time focusing on themselves right and all the stuff that comes with it the eating the protein the you know the gym bro right i was that guy for a long time yeah yeah yeah you know um but yeah it's like just finding the balance and balance like you said so what does the community do for you and uh have you ever have you ever
Speaker 1done the solo workout thing like so i do solo workouts a lot um because it's it's just how i
Speaker 2because i teach so many classes now you're in the community all day yeah and like that's kind of
Speaker 1like my way to you know recharge but i but what the classes do for me is very similar to other recovery spaces where it's like i'm not alone doing this and i'm struggling like you see people struggle but you also see people who don't give up and you you're working out beside someone the whole time and you can and they're like okay this fucking sucks or like we got this like it it's that connection through like suffering like but it's a suffering that you choose and what it gave me was like a sense of identity and like the little bit of you're no longer aloneness and like being able to laugh through a workout and being able to just like not take myself so fucking seriously when i was working out because i think sometimes when i'm alone and especially it's if i'm filming myself it's like oh my form has to be perfect and i have to do this and i have to do that but like where i work out there's no mirrors there's no mirrors and the lights are on so you can see people's eyes and you can see people's faces and you can see the person beside you and you can genuinely talk to them and it gives me it gave me this sense of like holy shit like there are other people who want to get better and this doesn't have to be so serious like i think people just take it to a whole another level where it's like i need to optimize i need to optimize and it's like shut up like you don't
Speaker 2need to optimize this gym bro like hustle culture right yeah and i think and i paired with that too
Speaker 1is a lot of people don't know how to connect they don't know how to talk and when you're in a workout class the wall there's another layer that's like not there because people are not done up you're in your gym clothes like yeah some people can dress up for the gym but for the most part people are like i'm just here to work out people aren't wearing makeup people aren't like filming themselves there's no mirrors like it's a very unique community where that vanity is it's a little bit not there it's still there but not as much and if it i find a lot of people who my favorite thing is people who come in and they're so nervous and you can like smell it off of them how nervous they are and the only reason why i can smell it is because that's how i was so when i see those people i'm like okay i'm coming for you and making them feel capable and comfortable and and seeing that there's people who are you know 60 years old and retired and then there's people that are like 20 there's people that are 30 like everybody's doing the same shit showing them that they can do it like they actually can and i'm like hey see not so bad and they they start coming for like a month walk in and there's like a smile on their face and they know where they're going and it's like the transformation and being able to witness that is what the community did for me even before i was a coach like i remember i you you go to the same class times and you meet people and you start to build these relationships and you learn a little bit about them and all of a sudden you see them lift like 10 pounds heavier than they did the previous week and you're like you're like oh my god that's so cool is that the same person yeah you're like this is like what and you get to see people improve right and then there's people at the gym who you know one couple they got married meeting at the gym and like and uh another girl that i was working out with since day one she's like having a baby like that's so cool i get to you get to witness people throughout your life and or like throughout their lives and as you're doing it alongside them and it just really create i get like goosebumps talking about it because it just it brought so to my existence where yes like being sober and hanging out with sober people is incredible but like hanging out with people who with the world is like really cool too yeah yeah i mean this sense
Speaker 2of community like at a time when i was just talking about it in the last podcast living in downtown toronto can be the loneliest place in the world right yeah even for someone like me that is very extroverted i like to think that i can talk to anybody i don't want to leave my house someday this is like a whole thing right and so to be forced is the wrong word to be accountable to a community of people we were like yeah they're gonna i gotta go because you know
Speaker 1everyone else is going it's like so and so is there i also like i'm paying for this membership like it's not cheap yeah which which really sucks like it's not i don't want to say it sucks but it's not cheap it's an investment in yourself and i got to see people who were like investing in themselves and being like wow like they're not spending their money on like booze and yeah
Speaker 2yeah and others that's a good point too how much money was your addiction costing you and i'm not talking about the bars or i'm talking about the the crashed cars and the lawyer fees and how much was like eating out costing you how much is uber eats every night yeah i haven't i haven't had uber eats in a long time i just realized that when i was in my relapse i was like every night like clockwork and it's like
Speaker 1easily you're like oh my god seven hundred dollars where did that go right like or even more than that when i was drinking and using right so it was it was so cool the community and then you know we'll have events where you know we we do donation based classes and so you're you're working out for a cause so there's that layer of it as well and just so fucking sick and like what a breath of fresh air to be around a group of people that doesn't really care about what you look like or what like you do outside of it they just care that you're showing up every week and yeah that's
Speaker 2your point i think the biggest fear for anyone walking into any i mean at least for me yeah into any new situation is like am i going to be judged for what i'm doing right are there going to be a line of people like holland and you know the other personal trainers watching me like look at this fucking moron trying to how to lift this weight like that's not how you do it right and you come in and then you realize you know you walk up to it and recovery is a lot like that too right and that's recovery taught me
Speaker 1how to do that how to walk up to someone and be like hey what's up are you new here yeah yeah i
Speaker 2wouldn't well i know i know when they're new here but we all know i'm like you're new here it's a
Speaker 1new it's a loaded question sometimes people think i'm a lot like people because i'm like hey how's it going and they're like and i remember being like in early sobriety i was gonna say they didn't
Speaker 2meet you early on you met me early on where i was like i was not down and now i'm like what's up
Speaker 1and they're like are you always this happy and a part of me is like you didn't see me when i wanted to unalive myself like you you didn't know that part of me so like yeah i'm happy to be here like
Speaker 2i'm really fucking stoked the shit that i've been through every day is a gift right yeah i always say that we should all be dead a lot of statistically and like statistically i should be dead
Speaker 1as a woman doing the type of stuff that i was doing i tried to buy drugs in cambodia
Speaker 2i don't need to do look at me like i shouldn't be here like that is not a place you want to end up
Speaker 5in prison right no i would be i would be dead yeah yeah there's a lot of scenarios i can look
Speaker 2back and think um i remember i was in one of my one of my three rehabs that i've been to one of the counselors was like life's not fair like someone was complaining about something life's not fair really if life was fair we would all be dead or in jail and i that i was just like
Speaker 3yep yeah i'm happy to be here yeah i'm actually thrilled i love rehab this is great
Speaker 2but it's true like sometimes and that goes back to the the whole gratitude thing i want to ask you um what's something that is what's your biggest challenge today um i only want to talk about your biggest challenge today i only want to talk about your biggest challenge today
Speaker 1well good things well i like there's stuff going on um i think for me it's um oh it's i struggle with like workaholism so i throw myself into my job and i can forget about the other pieces of life and that is what i've i realized like now that a lot of layers have been peeled away and i'm like i'm not going to be able to do it again i'm not going to be able to like the self-hatred the abandonment the the exercise like all that what's what's like part of my root stuff is like workaholism and i just like someone once called me a workhorse and i just like fucking work like that's just how i was raised so i'm i've experienced a little bit of burnout um not a little bit a lot of burnout and i moved away from like my recovery tools because of it and i was like emotionally unwell um but on the outside i was performing i was posting all that stuff on instagram like it's fine and it's it that's when i was like oh fuck i'm i'm not doing so okay so i had to take a bit of a step back and reassess where my priorities were and i'm like i'm coming out of it but i struggle with workaholism a lot yeah yeah and i i think
Speaker 2workaholism is one way to say it another way i'm thinking of when you're talking about that is like this sort of we can have for me it's like we have these two states of being it's like being mode and doing mode yes i need to all i can fall into this i gotta be doing something all the time because i don't want to deal with what's going on in here or whatever it's my coping mechanism yeah doing doing doing doing have you heard of like the quote
Speaker 1that we're human beings not human doings like i love that yeah fuck that yeah
Speaker 2but no it's it's so true i mean yeah like when was the last time it's so easy to get distracted like to distract yourself today there's a computer there's a phone there you know what i mean and it's like when was the last time i actually meditated and sat with myself exactly and so
Speaker 1i've been going back into those like daily practices of like i have a i like sit in the coffee and then i do like step one two three and then i um i do at the end of the night i do a yoga i pull some tarot cards and like journal so interesting yeah um i would love to be able to you know how like have a life in a a way that generates abundance where i'm not in workaholism so that's kind of what my work is right now it's like how do i do meaningful work that is helping people but also keeping the lights on yeah yeah i am one of them
Speaker 2you know i hate when people say you know if you're doing what you love and you're calling the money will come it's like well where the fuck is it where's the money i'm pretty sure this is the right calling i'm pretty sure i'm pretty sure inflation
Speaker 5was not accounted for when that quote was made yeah exactly like jesus how much is a fucking
Speaker 2avocado like uh it's so true uh no yeah it's like one of those things right it's for me it's uh attachment to outcome yeah things aren't going the way i thought they would this podcast is a perfect example i woke up this morning and i was like this is becoming more work than it used to be yeah and you're like why and and it's nothing's changed yeah if anything i've gotten better i set this
Speaker 5up in five minutes fantastic i'm way better at it yeah but it feels yeah it feels like more work
Speaker 2because i thought i'd be getting certain things by now and i don't mean like money or just even just like audience numbers and yeah sponsorship like yeah it is money it is a lot of money too so you know i take that back one of the things i do
Speaker 1struggle with today is workaholism and money those are my like those are my two so yeah and
Speaker 2they kind of go hand in hand yeah so um would it be is shopping a thing or is it more just not budgeting it's um under earning yeah and then so you're okay on the the spend yeah for a long time i had the shot i was using instead of the workaholism i was using the amazonism right yeah i always said this is like amazon guy the amazon guy replaced my drug dealer fuck the amazon fuck you jeff yeah i i've actually gotten a handle on that but again it's
Speaker 1recovery is honestly six garbage cans five lids yeah yeah playing whack-a-mole always
Speaker 2whack-a-mole there's always something that's gonna come up and yeah i just need to be reminded to that it's like this thing that's coming up now is so much better than that thing drugs and
Speaker 1alcohol or whatever yes and it's meant to be coming up like it's not happening for you it's happening to you uh sorry it's not happening to you it's happening for you it's good save yeah i was like fuck um but yeah it's uh that one is huge and i think another thing that fitness and sobriety have taught me is that like i'm not a victim you're a survivor i'm a survivor but i also have choice i have choice and like yes shitty things happen to me and shitty things continue to
Speaker 2happen but i am not a fucking victim yeah and i don't need to sit in oh yeah there's a big difference between sitting in your shit and sitting with yes with your shit oh my god yeah this is happening right now but uh i trust you you know i'm looking up at the sky yeah i uh i trust the process yeah when you're in it though it's like yeah sometimes the money thing is interesting to me because um i left a very high paying job to go into an industry that is that's
Speaker 1like no potential for high pay unless you're like get a bajillion degrees there's like a
Speaker 2whole yeah it's a lot uh and so uh that's been on i struggle with that too where it's like well
Speaker 1did i make the right choice yeah and at the end of the day at the end of the day yes i did make the right choice and i have to i have to trust the process because i'm in the process of learning how to be authentic on camera and like having that be able to build and attract clients
Speaker 2that want to work with me yeah unfortunately or fortunately it's part of the thing now right instagram is the new tvs on ads on tv yeah right and you can either be the old man staring at the cloud yeah or you can kind of join it and how do you do that you're doing pretty well thank you
Speaker 1yeah how do i do film it like how do you just be authentic like yeah repetition yeah um there's a
Speaker 2there's a cringe thing that happens at the beginning with it we will talk offline about it because it's boring but there's a social media there's a um there's a formula to it that i'm learning more and more about every day and it's really stupid and really annoying but it's it all comes back to human psychology and essentially you're fighting for people's attention span right yeah your content could be the best content in the world but if you don't get people in the first little bit no one's gonna fucking know you exist yeah right i follow you on social media and i'm learning more and more about it and i'm learning more and more about it and i'm learning more and more about it and i'm learning more and more about it i can't tell you how many people i follow where i'll watch the video and i'm like this i literally learned nothing from this i wasn't entertaining i don't and it has millions of views or thousands of views and it's not about this somebody it's i don't know i haven't figured it out yet that's
Speaker 1okay sorry we went we went yeah we're on a tangent yeah we're on a tangent now this is it's a big
Speaker 2part of my life too because yeah um i there's a whole vanity section to that that's very dangerous for mental health yeah right for sure i just saw this thing the other day that they're talking about releasing on instagram uh comparison metrics so you can compare yourself with other creators i'm like please no yeah don't and everyone was commenting on it they're like no no i don't need this It's like my mental health is bad enough.
Speaker 1Yeah, we don't need. No, thank you.
Speaker 2I don't need to compare myself to people. Comparison is the thief of joy.
Speaker 1But it's also, I think we've gotten away from like, what is meaningful? Why am I saying this? Like, what are my thoughts?
Speaker 2Your perspective. Yeah. When I go on social media, if I'm listening to, when I'm looking for entertainment sometimes, I'm also looking for relatability and then perspective. Yeah. Didn't think of it that way.
Speaker 1And then I'm looking for recipes and then I make my boyfriend make them. Education.
Speaker 2There you go. You send them to him. Yeah. Education. I forgot that one. You're right. Education, entertainment, or perspective.
Speaker 5Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2And yeah, it's like, anyways, it's a whole thing. But I'm working on that too, because, I mean, at the end of the day, and the worst is when you know it too, you get a hundred thousand followers, let's say, you know, and I know nothing is going to change. Right. You might be making some more money in that area, but it's like, I don't know. I'm going to, if anything, I'm just going to feel shitty that I don't have 200,000.
Speaker 1Yeah. And that's, well, that's the same with intrinsic and extrinsic.
Speaker 2It goes back to what you're saying.
Speaker 1Yes. And so I truly believe that when you can get to know yourself in a way where you're, you're making, you're taking action from an intrinsic place versus an extrinsic place, then that's when the results come. So in fitness, like a lot of people are like, why aren't I losing weight? I'm like, because you're not doing it for the right. Reason. And you're doing it for not you. You're doing it because of some perception of you. Like I know so many people who want to lose weight, like for their husband or for their wife or for their kid. But like, what are you doing for you?
Speaker 2The best part with those scenarios too, is most of the time the husband or wife doesn't even care. They don't give a shit.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2I just want you to be healthy. They just want you to be healthy. I want you to be healthy. Live long.
Speaker 1It also comes down to like what you eat too. And like it's, it is. So the gym bros do have it there on the protein, but they got some stuff going on.
Speaker 2They do.
Speaker 1And I think it's also the culture that like women can do it too. Like the, the, the Pilates princess like craze is like, that's so unattainable. Like it's so unattainable.
Speaker 2What is it?
Speaker 1Like I'm going to go in my, in my matching workout set. I'm going to go do Pilates and I'm going to be super skinny and I'm going to be like super fit. Drink a matcha tea. Drink a matcha. And I'm like, you have spent $200. Like that's not attainable. And then the gym bros want to get that, but they don't know how to talk to those type of women because they're not, they're not going into those spaces, which is why I think group fitness can be really fun because it takes away all the, it can take away the vanity. Like there are some places where it's only vanity in group fitness, but yeah. I think community fitness is like really important at T and we've had some like younger kids come into the studio too, like 17 year olds. And I'm like, yes, get them in here.
Speaker 2Wow. Um, yeah, I mean, it's a community in, in like, I think everyone needs community, especially addicts and alcoholics and, um, how, so yeah, I guess balancing the two recovery and what, like how do, how do they help you differently? I would say, well, that's, that's my question.
Speaker 5So recovery.
Speaker 2Um, community, I mean, yeah. Wait, sorry, just keep saying what you were saying.
Speaker 1I find recovery, um, and like doing self-reflection work, like helps me bring up shit and then fitness helps me release it.
Speaker 2That's very simple. And I love it. I've never thought about it like that.
Speaker 1So it's like, I'm doing the work I'm journaling.
Speaker 2I'm like, ah, I don't like this.
Speaker 1That's a truth. Yee. I've been burying that for a long time. Okay. How am I going to get? I'm going to get rid of it. I'm going to go lift some fucking heavy shit around, going to churn the blood. I'm going to, remember I said like emotions are energy, emotions are frequency. I'm going to, I'm literally going to pump it out of my system and then you get that clarity and then I reintegrate it or reintegrate new thoughts with more of a self-reflection work with community, with, um, doing a little bit of yoga, eating a good meal. And then it's literally like replacing it.
Speaker 6Hmm.
Speaker 1That's my philosophy at least. It's like, so it's like, it's like self-reflection, physical work, nourishing your body and then like community.
Speaker 2Love that. Yeah. It's like a circle, right? Yeah.
Speaker 1And it's, it's not so much, it's like a, it's like a, and it's constantly like changing and moving, but those elements are always there and it's very, it's very, very simple. And I discovered it early on and I was like, oh my God, this works for me.
Speaker 2Self-reflection is, is so important. It's so important in recovery. Um, I think that that's one of the most important things is, you know, you have two jobs in this life to find your true self and then to love that true self. And how do I do that? Well, I got to find out who the fuck I am first by going to, you know, recovery communities, but also the journaling is a big part.
Speaker 1Journaling is huge. Doing like, obviously like step work and all of that, but like also therapy, like good therapy, not therapy where they're just validating your shitty behavior, but therapy where they're actually doing it. Like getting you to change. Because I think there's a lot of therapists where I'm like, I'm sorry, are you just agreeing with me? Like, and you need to like, like, and therapy can get really weaponized too. I think people can be like, I'm protecting my mental health. And then it's like, no, you're just avoiding, which I'm totally guilty of.
Speaker 2Yeah. I think there's a big difference between, um, like you need a therapist that can read you and tell what you need in the moment, right? It's like. It's like, uh, do you need to be heard right now or do you need to be directed?
Speaker 6Yeah.
Speaker 2You know? And most of the time I need to be directed. Like I honestly getting heard and validated, it comes in handy sometimes. And I do need that. Sometimes I mean, I need to be told that I'm on the right path sometimes. Like I need to be validated that like, I'm exactly where I need to be as simple as that sounds. I think for men, at least it's like, I think for men it's, I need to be told that I, I like, I matter to the tribe. Like I'm contributing in some way. I think that's the big one. And, uh, that, yeah, that I'm, I'm not for nothing. Right.
Speaker 5That's really nice.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 5You do matter.
Speaker 2You do.
Speaker 1You're a part of the tribe.
Speaker 2Could you tell me? No, I'm kidding. Yeah.
Speaker 1Could you tell me again that I matter? Yeah. And I think for me, I needed to, to practice and to be reminded that I'm not a piece of shit. Yeah. Because a lot of the. At least for like being a young girl, it was this like not enough-ness that is everywhere. And I think it's for men too, just for people in general, but that again, that's where like fitness really helped me because I was able to do hard shit and I was like, oh, I'm spending most of my time like in the gym and talking to cool people. I'm not doing those shitty things and making bad decisions anymore.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah. And, and this perceived limitation thing. Yeah. It's so important. It's like, I didn't know I could do that. I didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 1Like I had no idea.
Speaker 2Yeah.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2What else can I do? Yeah, exactly. That was the thing for me.
Speaker 1And then it's like, again, then you go back into like the self-reflection and don't let yourself go too far down the rabbit hole of like obsession. So it's, it's this constant dance of like, okay, yeah, I'm going to go all in and then I'm going to, I'm going to ease back out a little bit. So I don't, I go, don't go too far off the deep end. Yeah.
Speaker 2I love it. Yeah. Let's end with this. I had a lot of fun today. Yeah. Fitness has always been a staple in my life.
Speaker 1Come to a group fitness class. I don't know about that.
Speaker 2No. Yeah. Try to get me to, to.
Speaker 1Get you out of the West End. Yeah.
Speaker 2That, and to, you know, agree to something on camera so that I'm accountable. But yeah, no, I, I definitely want to, I believe in the fitness community and, you know, there is a lot of toxicity in it. Just find, it's like, it's like recovery, right? All of 12 step is bad. Well. Well. Have you tried over here? Yeah. Have you tried over there? Yeah. Have you actually tried? Yeah. You know, you need to find a good group.
Speaker 1Yes.
Speaker 2Instead of paint the whole fitness industry wrong.
Speaker 1Exactly. So I think like back to what we were saying in the beginning, like my goal or my, my purpose here is to be a little bit of a lighthouse and be like, Hey, like there's just, there's another way to do it. There's just, there is another way. I'm not the solution. I'm not, you know, I'm not the best because I've discovered this, but like there is another way to do it if you want. I'm going to be doing it over here anyway. So just come hang out with me.
Speaker 2That's, that's my goal. Whatever size, race, color. Yeah. Religion. Yeah. You're welcome. Doesn't matter. Yeah. Join us.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Cause we need you.
Speaker 1We need everyone. Yeah. And you can do it and you matter.
Speaker 2And I need you to do hard things to prove that I can do hard.
Speaker 1Exactly.
Speaker 2And you matter. Exactly. Let's end with this. Okay. If you. What do you hope? Yeah. What do you hope people get out of your story?
Speaker 1I hope people smile a little bit and like not take themselves so seriously. I hope people can like just exhale a little bit and be like, oh yeah, I don't have to. I don't have to do shit that makes me unhappy. Like there is another way. And there are people out there that also feel that way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel that way. I hope people get a little sense of, like, relief. I hope people just try something that is meaningful to them. That's all.
Speaker 2Thanks so much for coming down, Holland. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 7Appreciate it.
Speaker 1Yay!
Speaker 7Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel and like, share, and subscribe for more content. The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational purposes only. This content is not a substitute for professional medical advice, addiction treatment, or therapy. If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction, please consult a licensed physician, addiction specialist, or mental health professional. You are no longer alone. Thank you.
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