From A Gift For His Girlfriend To 9M+ Daily Active Users: Locket’s Viral Growth, TikTok Strategy, And Retention Wins

Welcome to May I Have Your Retention Please, where we interview the best consumer founders building apps in 2025. Tactical advice and insights, not just fluff. What's up everyone, Sabah Karim here. I'm so excited to share with you today's guest, which is Matt Puss, the founder of Lockit. One of the fastest-going social apps over the last few years, got having millions of downloads. In fact, they're at 9 million daily active users right now. He talks about what started as a birthday gift, which wasn't meant to be a business in the first place, turning into a viral sensation, hitting top of the charts, and just discusses how he thinks about retention, content strategy, onboarding, and why building something that people really want beats any growth arc. Hey Matt, how you doing? Doing good, it's great to be chatting. So many people recommended that I chat with you once I announced his podcast, and so it's an absolute honor. That is that is so cool to hear, yeah, I'm super excited to chat. Tell us more about where the idea for Lockit first came from. I think Lockit was kind of the classic, like, build something for yourself sort of stories. I met my girlfriend during my senior year of college, and after graduating, we were going a long distance for the first time, gave it to her as a birthday present. It was our personal thing for like six past months after that, really had no ambition, launched on the app store, but you just kind of fell in love with using the app, and here we are three years later, right? What was the world like at that time? Were the other apps that were being used, just to get into that mindset a bit? So I mean, like, going back before that kind of got started, like, late middle school, early high school, just like hacking on apps and games, did that all throughout college, and then, you know, it was probably the simplest idea that I ever built, which was Lockit. There was the one that actually ended up working, which is, I guess, comically, how it usually goes. I'm just looking at public data, 900,000 downloads last month. You guys have hit the top 10 multiple times, even this year, but I just love you have 450,000 positive ratings in the app store at a 4.8. But let's talk today about customer acquisition. Like, you had your first customer, so that was easy. Thank you, Ava. Tell us about the next 100. How did you start sharing the word about it? I think you put it perfectly right with like, Ava being the first customer, actually being like the most important part of the whole process. I built so many things of the years where I would like get friends and family set up on them and stuff like that, and you kind of like, you know, you'd wait a week, and then they'd kind of not really be using it, or you'd bug them again, and then they'd still not really be using it. And just the fact that once we were both set up on it, we were kind of using it every day was like, the biggest positive signal of anything. It wasn't really about like, how many people were using it or anything like that, it was just like, if the two of us actually used this every day, you know, if you're really honest with yourself when you felt something, you normally know if you're like actually enjoying using it or not. That alone was kind of this like incredibly positive signal. You know, the other thing that I think worked really well on the early days was whenever we'd be at a party or something like that, Ava would get out of her phone and be like, look at this thing that made. And the really interesting thing was like, people would go to the app store immediately and like, try and download lock it, and we'd have to say, you know, like, it's not even on the app store. It's just like our own kind of thing. We're not trying to say anything. There's no app to download or whatever. But that again, like compared to anything I'd ever built before, like, you know, you're normally begging people, right? So we had a pretty organic start where we got like 10 or 20 friends on the test light after that once decided to put it out on the app store and got some good feedback from friends. We made our first TikTok Night News day of 2022, which was a pretty simple video, just like, you know, me and Ava showing how the app was used and the purpose behind it and all that kind of thing. And yeah, we got super, super lucky, which like that first video itself went, went fairly viral. And then was that the first video that you posted? Somehow the first video. No, come on. It is like, you know, we'll touch on this in a bit, but learn a lot more about TikTok distribution since then, like, it's truly a miracle. Even a great TikTok idea probably takes 100 videos in order to find one that actually goes viral or whatever. The first one actually hit was it's insane. And I think the other really cool thing that happened, like we've, we've obviously built a lot of processes around making content ourselves these days for distribution. In the early days, we kind of had none of that. And what really propelled the app was just like, you know, true UGC and the most pure, you know, sense of the word. It was like, people seeing that first video that we made and just deciding to make their own videos about lock it. And, you know, it's still a mystery of the world. Why that happened sometimes. And why people really want to jump on the trends and all that kind of thing. And then we made a bond video. And then it was just normal users that were probably making like, you know, the next 10,000 videos or whatever, which is a, is a pretty crazy thing. Okay, so you build a couple of apps and then maybe the fifth or sixth one was Locker. But you made your first video and that one went viral. Truly lucky, like lightning in the bottle, you know, you want to tell some story of grand strategy or whatever. But that was definitely not much of that. Do you think that all the apps that do the best friends on the home screen came after you? Because maybe you just built something people wanted. I was like, wait, this solves a really clear problem that no one else is actually solving right now. You know, we definitely have a lot of copycats that followed. I'm sure people had like thought of the basic idea before and built, you know, basic concepts around that. And you know, the whole like widget on the home screen is definitely fairly intuitive concept. We also launched probably a year and six months after widgets were available as well. It wasn't like Apple released this tech. And then like the next day, we were the first widget out there. There had been, you know, there have been widgets, Smith, for instance, which had done like a hundred million plus downloads, which is obviously more about home screen customization. There were no social features. But that's all just to say widgets were not exactly anything new. I think for us, like we obviously got lucky in so many ways. But I think in terms of the things we kind of did right, it was a lot of, you know, it's like the symbiosis between a really straightforward compelling product, the like brand and marketing component. And then like, you know, kind of share like timing, catching people at the right moment. I think like launching in the holidays was like super impactful for us for like people being on the right frame of mind for the app. And then this will be like, you social media climate and stuff like that. I think also meant that the time was kind of right for something that found a lot more authentic and personal. But it's like, there's no one thing, it's not one thing in the product or one thing in the marketing or one thing in the timing. It's like sometimes those forces are combined to like make the perfect moment for something. And we kind of got lucky with with that happening. And you know, I'm sure there are other concepts out there that were like similar before us that just you know, all of those kind of factors didn't compound in quite the same way. I feel like the biggest lesson here and this might dumb it down and it's not meant to discount it. Like, I don't think you were strategic with it. You were just authentic with it. You launched an app at a time that made sense for you that would have made sense for other people. Like people are trying to replicate this strategy now. Like, I'm going to do a LinkedIn post about saying how I made this app for my girlfriend and it didn't go viral and people like, why not? And I'm like, well, you know, like Matt's done now. Like, that was the authentic genuine share, right? So maybe it's sort of like TikTok has to be about authenticity a little bit. I don't know. You tell me you're the X video. What do you think that some of the people that are making content these days are doing wrong from what you've learned and what to work for you? Yeah, I think the authenticity part is definitely a lot of it. I mean, we've definitely got a lot better at, you know, making that authenticity happen more frequently, right? And making a lot of content and that kind of thing. So that's not to say it's all just organic and like, you know, logically, it'll happen. That's kind of where we got our start. But there's a huge difference between, you know, what gets you the start and then how you make that laugh is yours to come. So we, you know, have gotten you're pretty, pretty expert at you're making a lot of content. We have used folks in our team, Kyle and Kareema and Mitchid who you're just incredible of this and understand trends and making content and you're working with creators and all of that kind of stuff. So you know, I think that's all a huge part of it. But I think I think the main analogy that I always go back to on on TikTok is like, you take talks just kind of like the best megaphone that's ever been been invented, right? Like it's kind of like a focus group in your pocket, though, you know, we literally saw this when we posted our first video. You know, the first day of that video only got like a hundred views, I think back in 2022 when we launched. And then the next day, it got a thousand views because TikTok just like showed it to a few more people because the first 100 people liked it. And then the day after that, it got a hundred thousand views and then a million and all of that kind of stuff. You can like see the algorithm working that magic of like focus grouping the content and idea with users out in the world and then amplifying it when people liked it. And a lot of it actually comes back to the product itself rather than the content that is being made. And if you have something that people are really connecting with and an idea that really resonates, then TikTok will just amplify that idea more than you can ever imagine. It also can't amplify something that's not really resonating with people. If that makes sense, like no video will work for, you know, the thing that someone doesn't just really want to be under the day or it might work, but it won't need to download. So it almost feels like a lot of it comes back to product at its core and then you can get really great at wrapping the best video around the product. If you have, you know, that kind of like kernel of magic that people really want. That makes a lot of sense. So just to boil it down, what you're saying is builds something people want and share it out. But if I build something that crap, no matter how many videos I make, it's just not going to get picked up by the algo and people aren't going to download and keep it there. I think that that's exactly it. It's like a lot of it comes down to the idea. And to this day, we have a lot of things that will build that we hope will go viral like features and lock it and stuff like that. And some of them are great features that people like, but they just sometimes they just don't have that magic spark to make someone like watch a video about it and think, like, I need that or I need to tell my friend about that. And so, yeah, so so much for it just comes down to like the the product and the thing you're offering itself, I think. Yeah. What point did you really understand that wait, not just our 15, 20 close friends are using this and sharing with their friends? Like, when did you start seeing real retention? And you're like, Hey, hey guys, we might have a business here. I think that's a great question. And like, that's the other flip side to the whole, like, you know, TikTok acquisition kind of growth channel. It's like, it still does have to come back to retention at the end of the day. And, you know, there's one thing which is getting a couple of viral videos and then there's another thing, which is those users actually sticking with the product and them telling their friends that all of that kind of stuff. And so, yeah, I mean, we were honestly pretty cautious about it in the early days. Like, we, you know, we weren't the first app to go viral on TikTok, obviously. There are others that have been out there. And some of them had led to long-term success. Some of them hadn't. We were definitely very like, let's wait and see the numbers and make sure people actually, you know, really like this thing before raising money or anything like that. It was probably still a solo project at that point until we had like pretty solid day 30 numbers on retention and then realized like, this really is going to, going to stick for people. So just kind of like, wait and see, sort of approach. What the solid number for back then? What made you or VCC say, yep, they've got something sticky? Yeah, we were, we were at about 30% day 30 retention bounded. Yeah, that was kind of the benchmark. And then the numbers I always used to hear was like 35 and plus you were, you were trending towards being the next Snapchat or whatever. And so we, we'd a lot of work to get to that sort of level over time. I think for consumer product, you probably got to be 25% plus tree even half the conversation, like 30% plus is really impressive and promising. And then 35% to 40% is like, you're there kind of thing. You've reached that point that you need to get to. You hit on one of our buzzwords bounded with regards to 30 day bounded retention, which not everyone knows. Do you want to just explain that for our users of unbounded versus bounded? Yeah. So, so bounded means the user comes back on day 30 in particular. So if you sign up to, you have to be using the app on the 30th day from now. It's not any time in the last 30 days. It's on the exact 30th day. And the other really key distinction is, it's not anyone who comes back 30 days or more into the future. If you sign up and then you magically come back 90 days later, you don't count as one of those retained users on day 30. And for any, like DAU, you know, maybe even weakly active user product, you know, day 30 bounded is a really good way to measure it because it's a good indication of like, is the user actually using the app frequently or do they just sign up, forget about it and then maybe randomly they'll come back in the future, but they're not actually using it consistently. Unbounded is kind of like the annualized cheat code for SAS. We're like, if a VC is not really detail oriented enough, they're going to be like, "Oh, okay. Cool. Yeah. Your D30 is good." And then you're like snickering like a heart, but it's unbounded. Same thing with like annualized revenue. We're found to think it's just one day in the last seven days. You timed it by 365. Just like no. Yeah, I think that hits on another good point, which is like, we were honestly trying to be super conservative with all of our metrics when chatting with VCs because I think there's one way of going about it, which is exactly what we're saying. You're like trying to inflate the numbers as much as possible, right? And just trying to get money in the order. We were kind of on the opposite end of the spectrum where we were like, we only really want to raise money for this if it's like truly working. It seems like raising money and then it not working. It's probably not a very fun path to go down. I was almost always like, are we sure this retention's good enough kind of thing along the way, which I think definitely worked our well for us in the long run. Any of your VCs that have been super supportive early on? We have so many great people involved. There's one guy Brian Sugar who started a company called your pop sugar, who I met when I was a teenager and I'm even younger than that. And was incredibly supportive. And similarly, a guy John Calgill was also a great friend on previous startups. And I mean, I think maybe zooming out the really fun thing in like Silicon Valley and San Francisco and stuff in general is like, you know, a lot of the people that ended up being really helpful for lock it down the line were actually just like eagerly excited to help when I was 17 and working on some random app that like had no traction. And then you were willing to like take meetings and advise. And then we've grown on so many great investors for lock it itself as well. And just like, you know, a ton of people who built great consumer products in the past, whether that's like keep Dave Moran or Ben Rubin or any of those guys who have all done it, done it before. But there are so many, so many great people. I wanted to go into custom acquisition. I feel like we haven't gone deep enough. I think a lot of the stuff that we've done that's worked on TikTok has become a little more widely known at this point. And you know, shout out to Kyle on our team and Kreme and Mitchell who are really the ones who made all of that happen. But you know, in the early days, the thing that really worked for us was, you know, first and foremost, having a great in-house content team that, you know, they were the ones making all the videos. They were the ones who were figuring out what hooks were going to work. Yeah, it wasn't outsourcing that to influencers or creators that wasn't outsourcing that to agencies. It was like, people on our team who were like putting in the blood, sweat and tears to just figure out what's actually going to resonate with people. And we've tried the other strategy of, you know, leaving it open to interpretation and just seeing what videos people make. And that's been way less successful than like the people on our team really honing the messaging and really honing the hooks. And then once we found hooks that worked, we would recruit a bunch of creators to, you know, sometimes post on their own accounts, sometimes sell up new accounts that are just lock focused. And then a lot of their job is kind of using those hooks that we found to be really effective. And you're putting things on those, putting new openings, new creators, all of that kind of stuff, but still using those underlying hooks. And, you know, that let us scale creation to a level where even though maybe you have a one out of 60 or a one out of 100 chart, if any video go viral, you know, if you can make enough good videos, then that actually becomes a more stable source of downloads than, you know, I think that sometimes the perception that TikTok's just one big spike and then you never get another set of downloads again, right? But if you can get really good at like, you know, processing that whole flow, then you can do it a little bit more consistently. So that's what it's really, I think paid dividends for us on the TikTok side of things at least. Tell me a little bit more about the content creator. So are they, colleagues, students with the interns with a professional content creators that you put up a job application for like how you finding those folks? So I think you mentioned three names, yeah, tell me about them. Yeah, so they, they were all, you know, people who were, they're full-time members of the team, all incredibly talented. Yeah, a lot of it was like, you know, getting to know a lot of, you know, either, you're really talented, kids coming out of college or, you know, networking with people in San Francisco and stuff like that to find that like core team. It was super talented and the key to the whole thing. You know, then there's kind of the second level of recruitment, which is you will see how that great in-house team, how can you then scale them by having them work with, you know, tons of other external creators who, you know, are more like either interns or college students or contractors, however you want to frame it. And that's what's really let us go from you, we have the in-house team who's kind of producing the hooks and knowing what's going to work really well. And then kind of, you know, slightly more external team who's also able to go and then scale that production to, you know, 10 plus X, what we could do if it's just the three, the three people in-house making stuff. So, and finding the external team is like, we do a lot of like paid videos where someone will make a video on their own talk account, and then if they kind of do well from that, then we can kind of pull them into our, you know, ambassador program or whatever and have them make content more consistently. So that's a lot of just going out there and finding great creators and can get to them to work with us. You know, it's super funny. I mean, I wanted to ask you, there's a creator you've got that I feel like so many agencies have copied, not only, I think her name's Kaya, not only what she says and the caption, but I think there's AI company that created like replicas of that style of a video she does where she's sitting in the front of the, I think I know the one you're talking about. It's like, like, she looks up and then says Apple of the summer or something like that. My God, this is the most copied video of all time. It's obviously worked for you, right? Yeah, totally, totally. The funny thing is like all this steps to go into that video as well. Like, it probably took you are in-house team making like literally a hundred videos themselves to like find the basics of that video and then you're she. I also did all the, you're great work, but she made that video itself really good and like, you know, it always like seems so effortless for just the amount of time that went into making like that one thing happened is always kind of crazy to think about. So yeah, it's crazy. It's almost referred to in blogs like, hey, do the Kaya Locket strategy. It's like, you could even Google that the micro influencer locket strategy and there's a whole, there's obviously like a lot of case studies on it. So people, are you a man? People, are you coffee or behave? They see you and what you've kind of made possible for others, I think. Like, I, I really do is think people underestimate how much you created this content authentic way and led the way for a lot of others. So, could us do you guys? I think last, last me and more Kyle Kremein, Richard, I think I made my one TikTok video to start a little off and then I profiled from the game at that point. So yeah, it's all done. There were the ones who developed all of that. Have you killed a feature that might have been working, but it didn't feel right to you by chance? There's, there's killing it once it's out there. There's also killing it just kind of at the idea stage. Once we've, we've prototyped things, but you know, I think while we're definitely data-driven and spend a lot of time looking at your amplitude or whatever and understanding retention and growth and all that kind of thing, I think also try and remember that like all of all the things we're talking about at the start, you're just about like, Ava being the first and best customer and stuff like that, like that has ended up being a much better indicator of what's actually going to be successful with the use of base than any like A/B tests or numbers or anything like. I think everyone on the team feels this, but like if we have an idea we like and then can just you build it fairly quickly and then actually use it ourselves and like actually give it to friends and family, then like normally you know what to kill at that point because they either actually like it or they don't. And you know, we've had a lot where we've like done that process. Everyone will be kind of mad, right? It'll be like, it was a great idea, but now we're using it. It's like it's kind of cool, but it's like, I don't know if it's really delivering in the way we hoped it would. And then we'll say, well, you know what we've already built it. Let's go and like run the A/B test and like maybe we're wrong, right? Maybe we're the ones who don't understand the feature and then once we give it to the user base, they're going to love it. And then every time it fails basically, right? It turns out that like, you know, if we're not even liking it ourselves, they're probably not going to like it that much either. And I think it's hopeful that a lot of us you know, use the product in a somewhat similar way to the user base and that kind of thing, but but yeah, so you know, all that's to say, A/B ends up still being an arbitrary of a lot of the ideas, you know, like if she's not really actually liking it, then uh, you know, everyone else probably isn't going to either. You kind of know when you've designed something or shipped something like, hey, will people respond to it or not? Even with a couple people, so that's great. Totally. Yeah. And I think there's also a distinction between like big ideas and small ideas. With that stuff, we're like, you know, if we're talking about like optimizing friending during onboarding or something like that, um, you know, really in pretty hard on A/B tests, there's definitely surprising results there where you'll, you'll test five things when you're like, oh, I wasn't expecting that one to be the one that let us result. What I think there's a lot harder is like the bigger features where it's, it's much more, you know, we want to like deliver a brand new value for our users in a new way or something like that. And those are things where like the intuition really ends up kind of leading the way. So that's not to say A/B test should never be used. I think that's totally a place for that. But for big features, it's just been harder for us to like, you know, ever make that happen without the like intuition backing it up. What's something on your onboarding that you heal to die on? I got two of those. One, we really push friending pretty hard. And that's generally, you know, a decision that, um, you know, we go back and forth on a lot as a team and we'll always be evolving. But, um, I think that's been an exercise in knowing who's actually going to be a good user of the product in the long run. And that means someone who's able to get, you know, two, three, four, five plus friends using the app with them consistently. And you know, talking about A/B tests, I think one of the things that's been most surprising for me in the data is really pushing people in that direction. Actually, you know, even if you lose some people by being more pushy is actually quite net positive for retention in the long run because the people who are falling off maybe never really wanted to add that many friends in the first place. And, um, you know, so that's one like we've really pushed friending pretty hard. Um, the second one, which this is a nice one, two punch with the, you know, ship based on intuition and not A/B tests. But, um, I think my, my biggest controversial take is like, for the first million users, like onboarding just doesn't really matter that much. Not to say that you shouldn't have a good onboarding flow, like it should definitely explain the app on all that kind of thing. But I think you meet a lot of startups who, in the very early days, spend a ton of time thinking about like, what's the SMS conversion rate? What's the friending conversion rate? What's the, you know, you can, you know, chart out your whole funnel and like optimize every single one of those. It's like, how do you keep corrupting it to push notifications? What's the best place to put the push notification prompt all of those kind of things? Um, like our first onboarding flow for the first six months was like not, not very good at all and not optimized at all. And there was, you know, 10% gains to be had everywhere along that funnel for any of these conversion rates. But, um, you know, at the end of the day, like, I think people just kind of wanted to try the product and they were really willing to push through to try and figure out how to get that done, because they'd like seen a great TikTok video or a friendship or something like that. And maybe that's all to say, like, in the early days, for your first like a hundred thousand or a million users, like, I think if people actually really want the product and as long as you're not being egregious and like preventing them from getting to the product, they'll probably figure out how to get there. Um, and then after that, obviously to get from hundreds of thousands of users plus you should get expert at all those things and optimize all those funnels and that kind of thing. But it feels a lot less important in the early days and than like nailing the product experience itself, probably totally different for a paid product. And this is like assuming a totally free product that you're working on for scale and all of that kind of thing. Yeah. It ended up not being a big problem for us that our funnels weren't proficient, because that makes sense. Definitely a hot take, because yeah, the amount of people that will say, like every, I think Nikita Beas says at the best, like, you're competing against so many different things during on board and like every little button and every second that they waste during the on board is them fighting against, you know, you with the app. So it sounds interesting. What you're saying, and I get it too, like, focus on just what the value prop of the app is and those little things of whether the banners pop up don't matter as much. And again, there's so much gain to be had by optimizing those things in the long run. But it's like, I think this is also coming from a perspective of like, you know, for the first six months of the app, we had like between one and three people working on it right. And it's like, you can only focus on so much. And you know, if you really have to pick your battles, I think we definitely picked the battles more on the product side on than on the optimization side. And that ended up, you're working fairly well, I think. Is there a number of downloads that you got that you like got like, you're like, how did we get here? Well, you guys are like, we have to celebrate this. But the number of stuff is crazy. I mean, there were two that were really fun. And we shared these like with the team when we reached them. One is the like, the like football stadium analogy, right? So like the average stadium in the US, you know, holds like what like 50,000-ish people if it's a big one. Yeah. You know, we would sometimes like say to the team like, like we get roughly that number of sign-ups today. You know, like if you just go to a football stadium, like think about like that many people like chose to try a locker just today. That's crazy, right? That's huge. Yeah. That one's really cool. And then the other one that's always fun, see, there's two more that are fun. And one is the T using cities as like a benchmark for like usage. So you can be like like the daily edge of user of the ship of this product is like roughly the size of like New York City or something like that, right? Like in New York City, like all the people you see might be like using this thing every day. So that that's a really cool one. That's so cool. The final one that we used in one of our all hands was like one of the things we we pitch is that like getting a lock it like hopefully makes people smile. Even if it's just for one second, right? You open your phone and you like see that photo waiting for you. And you know, if you like multiply like one second of happiness by like every photo that's ever been sent. And you know, we got down to like tens of thousands of human years of just like pure happiness generated by like those that this photo is in time, which is like such a cool a cool metric. And that's all just a locket scale. Like you imagine you imagine your Facebook call it ever and you're talking about billions of people. So it, you know, you can always come up with the next analogy. And like even a thousand people is like, like, can you imagine how how can we crowd a thousand people? And so that's crazy that a thousand people are like doing one thing that you created. So yeah, it's always cool to put it in terms of like real people and you impact on the world and stuff like that. So I love that. Clearly you're a good storyteller. So and no wonder you've raised a bunch too. I think which is what takes early on to be a good product. And then I'll also be able to tell that story and you brag about your team a lot too, which is awesome. So you've got you've got other pieces there. So I see exactly why you've seen so much success that reminded me. I've got my notes here. I don't think I've ever seen the locket website. And I think it's because you guys have a URL that goes straight to the app store. That that is our only website. You could call it a strategy, although it's never been tested. I think it started off as like a bit of a like only do the things that matter sort of thing. And like our landing page doesn't matter. So like, you know, just redirect it to the app store. And you we like I think focus is like trying the biggest thing that I'm always trying to, you know, drill in like. Yeah. But we really using our time on the thing that matters. We'll probably build a landing page and realize it was a huge mistake to not have one for a lot at the top point. But that's where we are right now. So no, I always remember it as locket.com Ryan. I'm like, I never not know how to get it or show it to someone because I'm always telling people about it. So I think it works at least for me and the simplicity of it there versus, you know, two extra little buttons you need to press to get there. So let's just call it strategic. What haven't I asked that I should ask any general advice for founders out there building today? Oh, good question. It can take like like five years of learning to build stuff like until anything actually becomes even remotely successful. And like falling in love with like the art and craft of doing it was definitely like the biggest thing for me. Like it's still sometimes the most satisfying to build something that like nobody's actually going to use at the end of the day in a weird way, like just the act of getting to build. It's really fun. And I think that's just really important because although we did get super lucky with the locket launch, like that was probably on like year seven of building that you have to just kind of love it for like the sake of loving it to a certain extent to really I think make it in the long run. And like that's the same for any like passion. And I don't think people realize how hard it is to build a social app in general and it's just getting more and more busy. And everyone's thinking that maybe AI will be the solution to the next big social. But I've genuinely just been telling everyone like lockets the biggest startup to come out that isn't one of those big five. And I just can't wait to see it continue to grow and it just to become like the normal. I totally agree as well that like you know there's so many cool things to be built with AI and like this will probably build build some of them as well, hopefully. But at the same time, people at the end of the day really just want to like connect with the people they care about. That's like such a fundamental human thing. And you know, no matter what kind of tech comes out in the long run people are always going to want to do that. And so yeah, just like getting a double down on that's pretty cool thing, I think. Quick fire around. These are some of the questions that I get asked most as a in a founder and former VC. What's the best place to find a co-founder? Building stuff and sharing it on Twitter. There's so many cool young builders out there and like you just find each other pretty naturally by like sharing your work. If you could have unlimited revenue or raise unlimited VC money today, which only do you choose? Definitely revenue. I should adjust this for founders with PMF. But if you had an offer for $10 million cash in your pocket today after tax, are you taking it? Are you going to keep working on your business? We would keep on this long term. Yeah, since the tower suggests you should do the same thing. So good to you. And the last one, what is your favorite app right now? It's not an app, but this guy on our team Daniel made this card game called euphemism. It's it's felt like y-o-u feminism. And the idea is you kind of like pull from this deck of cards. Each one has like a funny term on it and you have to make your own definition for that word. Hands down the best card game I played in the last like five or ten years. Matt, this was freaking awesome. You are a legend. Thank you so much for your time. And thank you just so much for having me on this has been been so awesome. And yeah, just admire everyone who's who's building great products out there. Well, so thank you a lot. I'll see you during roll call on Sunday, hey? Yeah, there we go. 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