From 40 Classes a Week to 20 Studios: The Real Truth About Growing a Profitable Pilates Business with Todd Kuhn, Founder of The Core Collab

Today's guest, Todd Qun, co-founded one of the first group reformer studios in Australia, back in 2001, well before, group reformer was ever even a category. He then went on to franchise a sister brand to 20 locations. He spent two decades on the studio floor and now has moved into manufacturing the equipment himself. So if you want to understand where this industry has been, where it's going and how to build a studio that lasts, you're going to want to listen into this episode. Well hi there, I'm Sarah and Glantfield, I'm a business and marketing strategist just for boutique fitness studio owners like you. If you're ready to be inspired and make a bigger impact, you're in the right place. All you need are a few key strategies, the right mindset and some support along the way. Join me as I share the real life insights that will help you grow a sustainable and profitable studio. This is the Pilates Business Podcast. Welcome back to the Pilates Business Podcast. I'm so glad you're here today and I have got a very special guest on joining us. And I think we're going to be talking about so many really interesting perspectives and insights into what's been happening in the industry. We all know that Pilates is booming, the competition is intense. And likely the studio owners that will win long term are the ones who understand really what drives success in a boutique fitness studio business in the Pilates world. And Todd Cuyne is an industry veteran. He's been in and around boutique fitness boutique Pilates studios for well over. We don't want to say the how many years. No, please don't. The he pioneered the first group for reformer studio in Australia. He is a co-founder of the core collab and creator of the sculpt former, which is now launching inside of the sculpt me studios in Texas. And I wanted to bring on Todd. We had connected a few weeks ago, a few months ago. And I wanted to bring him on to share with his perspective over the years of seeing what he's seen. And perhaps even some insights on where he sees things going. Because I think these types of conversations with folks who've been in the industry for such a long time from this perspective of being a business owner, business builder and entrepreneur is so incredibly fun to listen and hear about. So welcome, Todd. I'm glad you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Okay, so let's go back to the beginning. You opened one of the first group reformer studios in Australia. What was the industry like back then where you were? And how did that all come about? Because obviously that was a new concept back then. Definitely. Yeah, interesting story. So we started actually running Pilates Mac classes in halls, which really took off. Everyone was wanting to do just Pilates. It was like 2000, 2001. Everyone had seen what was happening in the US and they wanted a piece of the pie. So we ran a lot of classes in scout halls and community halls throughout our town. We had at one stage about 40 locations or 40 classes per week had other instructors teaching. But at that time, there weren't really that many people actually teaching or that were trained correctly to be able to teach, especially in a group environment. And then we just had the idea that maybe we could do this similar concept, but in a reformer style studio where we had, at that stage, when we opened, we actually had 20 reformers straight up and people thought we were just crazy. And we kind of thought we were a bit crazy as well because everyone was saying this is a fad. It'll be gone in two years. You crazy signing a lease. But we went ahead and got into it and that's sort of kicked it off. Kicked it off. So right back then, there was really no playbook. It wasn't like anyone else was doing that, right? So you had to figure it all out on your own. It's interesting. I think I look at this now and think about how the landscapes change so much from like we were at that stage. One, there was a lot of education required of what Pilates was. We would have people calling the phone and saying, I want to do this Pilates or Pilates and any kind of variations of the name. Yeah, Pilates, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we were doing like 40,000 letter box drops of, you know, brochures into people's mailboxes around our area every two weeks. And that was that really that and people driving by or people referring with the only means of getting people into the studio. Yeah, because there was no Facebook or Instagram. There was very, where did you have a website? We had a website and it was average. Like there was, there was no education. There was no one you that you know, capture people's details and it was literally like we're running little ads in the local newspaper and people were calling and when we first started, people were calling that the message bank was full. And then we did, we had no means to get back to people and you'd have to call them and it was on home phones most of the time. Crazy. Crazy. Really to see how far we've come in 25 years. Such a different world to truly, right? Such a different world. But you know, they must have been some lessons and I'm guessing given the trajectory of what then happened that you learned early on and sort of perhaps habits that you learned early on that have served you well since then. Definitely. Definitely. Yeah. I think one thing that we're one thing that we always struggled with was that even like now there's coaches in different niches and and and getting the understanding from a really tight niche where we were having a lot of the time. We were learning from people that were like big box gyms and that we were trying to get coaching from them and it wasn't really targeted and specific. So we were trying to then overlay things that big box gyms were using and then doing the same principles in a small boutique style, even though it was large format boutique style and even languaging the way that we would speak to people is different to the way traditional gyms speaks to people. But really all the main thing it got down to was community and service. Yeah, absolutely fundamentals, right? The fundamentals. And obviously that worked because you then went on to add a couple more locations, right? Yes. Yeah, we did. We added two more locations in four, five, or four, or now probably took six, seven years actually to actually get it the first one after the second location. We opened only after a couple of years. But then the next one took about five years to get to that point. Yeah, amazing. So then you kind of took a little bit of a change in direction. You went later on, you began late much later, you opened another brand, right? And decided to move into a different business model. So you went into franchising those studios. So that's interesting in itself. So the first studios that we had were more health clubs, original name was Pilates, etc. Because we had Pilates, yoga, we had a little gym there and we did group fitness. And then, but it was six thousand square or six to eight thousand square feet was the footprint. Yeah. And it's huge by it is you and the rent was just insane. And I after in 2013, when we got the second second brand, I was defiant on not spending a lot of money on the rent. At that stage, it was like minimum 200,000 per year rent. And I was, I'm never doing that again. I'm never entering a 10-year lease. I'm not doing any of this. So I thought, okay, how could we do the same kind of thing on a smaller scale? So the first location of our of rebalance was only 110 square meters. So like 1200 square feet. It was, it was like sardines in there. There was 10 reformers in one room and we had this this triangular room that we ran our yoga and bar classes from that really probably shouldn't have fit more than 10 people in but would at times have 25 people in there. Right. That was started really just thinking, okay, well, if we have one location, this will be great. And then we actually had a really great business coach who was again, he was from the fitness industry. But we were kind of we were implementing, or we were looking at the content that he was providing us and thinking, how can we tweak this for our market? And we went to a mastermind with him and he said, what's your vision? And that was the first time that we had looked at and thought, well, hang on, we've got an opportunity here to actually open multiple locations and have more impact on on our target market. Right. Right. So then you went on and was it that was when you started to think about the franchise model as the next step? That was really the first time that I had, because I had spent so much time wearing all of these hats and I was teaching classes, trying to manage do sales everything in between. We did this little like a Summary or like the mathematics of what what tasks you're doing and what could you replace that for and So it the the conference was actually in Hawaii and we were sitting there and my wife set Started writing it out and she was like you're teaching 25 classes a week plus doing this this and this look at this We can actually remove like 90% of of your classes that you're teaching For it was at that stage. It was like 450 or $500 and she was like this is crazy like outsource that and then we can actually focus on growing the business which was Took us to the next step of actually going okay. This is doable. Yeah, right right Let's change gears a little bit. So you then went from running and running studios Franchising studios to building the equipment so Yes, that's a the whole different direction as well. Well the interesting thing about you like wearing lots of hats are Probably no, I don't but then I always seem to The interesting thing with that is when we first opened in 2001 we had limited access to to equipment So we actually started building our own equipment there and I think about it now and it's quite hilarious like my grandfather built the carriages of the the and in the first class that I taught I mean in the class pushback and my grandfather hadn't bolted the shoulder rest down properly and the shoulder rest fell off and he went straight through it So like little funny stories like that that I think back on I'm like wow I've come so far So we're always making the equipment and it's always been my goal of looking at You know like people buy into a franchise thinking that I'm gonna sign up here and the brand is gonna do all the work for me And I don't have to do anything. So I've always been about with partners or franchisees anyone How can you get started for a lot of some amount of money so you get the best return investment? So we actually did equipment in 2001 and then in 2003 we were approached by a in Australia a large Fitness supplier and their goal was to start rolling out these group reformers studios But again in 2003 there was limited appetite I think in total we sold about 300 units But everyone just thought again. Oh, this is just a fad it'll pass and then from there We've just kept developing on on the equipment side of things and then we sold out of the studios and and continue doing the equipment Yeah, yeah, and so you work now that is your core business it is yeah core collab is studio equipment yes and What is it that you kind of learned from being in the equipment world because it's quite a different world to It is teaching world and the studio ownership world. You know, it's a different different ballgame, right? One thing that I've probably wearing too many hats always I've always been the teacher and then the mechanic and the whatever I laugh because I'm the least handy person in the world But the only thing that I know is polite is equipment. I can fix anything. I can see it and go Yep, that's what that needs to be but it's it's it's an interesting change. I Like it because it's all it's I'm dealing with people that are at that excitement phase where they're like okay I'm ready to get started and I want to get started and I want to buy this equipment and Listening to people's visions and listening to their dreams that that sort of excites me So and now I don't have to deal with the clients every day and It's it's different. It's different. It's different. Yeah, so you work with studio you manufacture of studios all over the world, right? And you say you speak to studio owners Who are typically at the early stages of their journey or perhaps about to expand and Into a next phase of growth as it were So, you know, you're having conversations about all sorts of different things What do you see do you see a lot of the a lot of the same conversations or concerns or mistakes The studio owners make often in those early years that you could share Yes, definitely. Oh, there's so many like I hear so many people saying things to me that I was saying to myself 20 years ago 10 years ago five years ago even so because everything changes so much But I one thing that I find and I when I was talking to you previously I said is finding a mentor like actually Find someone that has done it and it can help you building the systems around Running a studio because it's total different ballgame. You might be the best instructor in the world but the the skills that you need to run a studio are totally different to the skills that you have as An instructor. Yeah, so I'm very big on letting people know that Listen, this is it sounds great. You love teaching I get that but when you're wearing five hats in a day You need to make sure that you've got the systems in place to But the next step from that is that's good to know that but then it's how do they do it? Right, right, you know That's a lot of what we do inside of the program that I do with my studio owners is is that how do you do it and implement it and then You know everything you as you know from running your studios and and from all the the work that you do with with studio owners You know every studio is slightly different every studio owner has slightly different Levels of expertise and different things and talents and natural tendencies to want to be in different parts of the business Right like some people would would would not want to do what you've done and would want to be client-facing forever and ever and ever and ever And I think you know, so it's also about how do you apply it into your unique situation which definitely also a challenge right definitely? Yeah, so where do you find? You know what I should go but I have given you a sort of different hats that you have won Where do you and now having spoken you that you spend a lot of time speaking to newer studios? What is it that you wish someone had told you from the beginning about Opening and expanding that you got to grow into the skill the the new skills So you can't be said in as I said you can't be the best instructor You need to grow with what roles that you need to take on or you need to hire really well to support the team or Yourself to work through that phase of growth. That would probably be the biggest one I but I still struggle with that now that trying to take on too many too many different roles that it's Impossible. Yeah, you you know become the bottleneck really totally, you know, and hi It's so frustrating to be in that position. Definitely Right. Yeah, I think there's sort of a You have to sort of embrace that That sort of letting go of some things and stepping into other things and knowing that it's sort of people always talk about You know do the hard things or do the things that are least comfortable But I think that one of the things that I've noticed and tell me what you think that about You know those student owners who team to continue to grow and their businesses, you know are can kind of go from strength to strength Is that they they get More comfortable with like letting go and leaning into the harder things and and don't sort of shy away from the things that are hard Definitely definitely. I and again, I find that a lot of people go into it The conversations that I have anyway are great instructors and they're thinking that that's going to be the The linchpin for being an amazing studio and sure that works well for the first 12 weeks But then after that they're Fatigue and everything else when there's pressure on they crack Which everyone will Right exactly. I know you know, it's not to say that passion is an important There's nothing it is right. Yeah, it's so important But it's about sort of expanding that skill set like you said definitely yeah, definitely So tell us a little bit about the equipment tell me about your sculpt former And what you have been developing and working on yeah, yeah, so Come obviously with as I said it the iterations that we've been through since 2001 We kept pretty much the same model till about 2010 and then we've from there we've Gone through so many different variations trying to work out what was the best for our studios where we had aluminum for some studios and then we changed the wood for other studios and colored wood and different colored upholstery so we've kind of gone through the ringer of that and it's just a constant refinement of Okay, well, this is the feedback that we're getting about this. Oh, okay. We need to change this. We need to improve this But the the sculpt former actually came about in 2015 What we were finding with clients is in in one of our studios or it was the first one of the second brand And we were finding that people were coming on and they'd do like let's say catch to 12 weeks And they would get all of these amazing benefits in 12 weeks and then they would start being like oh, you know This is just getting a little bit like I feel like I need that next step So um, we actually came to the us and saw some studios and what they were doing and we're like Maybe what we could do with the our wood reform as we could change up our style a little bit so that we had more of a, the modern style of reformers. So we went back and we designed a wood version of what now is the sculpt former, but it had a traditional foot bar on the front end and then handle bars on the back end and bigger carriage, wider carriage, more springs, two platforms. So kind of looked similar, but still looked like a traditional reformer. And the goal really was just to try to take people from the 12 weeks to keep them coming by giving them some more challenge, standing work or more different variations of planking and everything that really can be done on a traditional reformer, but it was also larger. So it looked a little bit more, you know, strong, I guess, even though it was white and grey. Yeah, and that was, that's really how the sculpt former came about and then we were from there, we developed the training program that went with that and then we spent 2018 through to, or now we're still doing it, but we're doing, we've been doing a lot of training in that method, the sculpt method, it throughout Asia. So we've done Korea, Indonesia, China, Thailand and that's kind of where we're, where we're being for the last few years and then in 2022, we came here with just a couple of models and then really in the last 24 months is when we launched the sculpt former over here in its new version. Yeah, exciting. Yeah. And is it designed to be in a studio or is it a home use as well? No, so at the moment, the sculpt former, so we do all of the equipment range. So we do a lot of home reformers, which, you know, a lot of people are, it's interesting. I, I've followed overlay my thought pattern and I'm like, for me, when we've got reformer home, but I don't use, I still go to a class. It's like, so many people are looking for that option and I understand that, you know, if you're driving 30 minutes or 40 minutes to go to a class and then all you're not even able to get in because there's a wait list at the one studio in town or whatever. But, um, so we've got a large home section, but then the sculpt former is predominantly studios that are looking at what's what is the new wave? Is this the new wave? Is this or is it going to, is the industry going to do a full circle back to more traditional? I think that's just going to be both just keeps expanding and expanding. I agree. And is that what you think, you know, that is that sort of as you're seeing because obviously you see data, you're seeing the numbers, you're seeing the interest. What is, is that where you're kind of, you're thinking it's, it's going to head? I just think, I think that one thing is that, I think the Pilates principles of the old school Pilates principles are such good principles that can be overlaid into this modern, modern, contemporary. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where recently, there's been a huge uprising the modern style, but then the training and the foundations haven't been laid. So I think that there's this great opportunity. I say this to everyone that are opening a studio in that style is if you can get the really strong foundations of your traditional Pilates and then overlay the modern practice, then you're on to a winning formula. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, what, what I, you know, we have, because we have this conversation a lot when I have guests on the show and generally when we're having these conversations with all sorts of folks in the industry at conferences and so on. So I go, what do you think? Is it going to all collapse and go away? This is like, who is going to end? You know, and I think, you know, and some, and you know, it's interesting to hear your perspective. And I agree. I think I don't think we're going to see this like, you know, drop off and disappearance of Pilates are all, but mostly because of the fact that you've been in this industry since 2001, I've been in this industry since 2008 and we're all still here and we're not only are we so here we're seeing every, are the people join and it's sort of, there is, you know, Pilates is something that is everyone can do at every stage of life, right? And it's useful and helpful and great to do it every stage of life. And so from my perspective, we, we might see some people like, you know, go into other trends that what have you, but I think for the most part, because you can, you're your audience and your, your range of people who can, who are, who are interested in falling love with Pilates today, right? In 2026, they're still going to want to do Pilates in 2030 and 2035. So I'm very, I'm really optimistic about the continued. Like I said, in 2001, everyone was saying the fat will be over in two years and here we are 25 years later and the, it's the industry just keeps it's an industry within itself now. It's not like, you know, some sub check, some sub section of the fitness industry, it's actually an industry, which is, it's very cool. It's very cool, very cool. Okay, so you're going to go into a full circle and come back to building again. And after everything you built and everything you've done, you're now opening a new studio. Tell us a little about why now. But I'm mostly I'm kind of curious about what you're doing differently versus the last couple of times that you've started a studio brand. Yes. Yeah. Good. That's a good question. So I so many things, I mean, you, like I always say to everyone, you just, you should be constantly learning, learning about the best practices or whatever. This came about actually, when we sold our business, the, the, the company that bought were a publicly listed company and they gave the option for the franchisees to come across and be part of their brand or over arching brand or go their separate ways. We had two of the franchisees went their separate ways and rebranded doing so much work over here in the last couple of years in the US. I've just been everyone that I was speaking to was saying, Oh, you know, this place, they tell me that a town and it'd be like, Oh, there's a hundred thousand people here. There's two studios in town. What do you think? And I'd be like, well, it's great. If you've got two studios in town and they've got a captive audience, if you do everything right, you should have, you should have a very successful business. So I actually was talking to one of the, the franchise, the husband and I said, Oh, you know, you guys ever think about selling and moving to the US. I know that he loves Dallas. And he, he, he sort of laughed. And then the next day called me back and said, Are you serious? And I said, I am serious. I like, I'm half serious, but half joking. And then he was like, well, if you're serious, let's have a deeper conversation about it. And then six months later, they'd sold their business and moved over here. And then so just, yeah, learning from, you know, I'm big on the community and the, the all in the call that we're working with, they were very good with their businesses with their studios at building that community. Because at the end of the day, you can be the best instructor in the world. But if you've got no people coming or you've got a terrible personality that doesn't live the values that your company, you know, promotes, then you kind of, you're in big trouble anyway. So they're the perfect people for it. And just I think it's interesting even in the markets where, you know, the Australian market is so like probably oversaturated. And everyone is actually kind of knows what they're doing. Probably because it's so small. Whereas I've found in the US, there's huge opportunity because there's only, there's fewer people that really know what, what and how to do. So it's like, okay, well, let's, let's give it a go. I don't want to be sitting in 20 years thinking, oh, we should have done that. That was a good opportunity. But same, same things really focusing on community, focusing on giving great classes and the experience as soon as people walk in the studio being different to the studio that's 100 yards down the road. Yeah, I think it's just critical. You know, and you know, there is there is there is a lot of competition in every possible way. But for for parties, but also for wellness dollars in general, you know, so you you cannot overlook that experience. And, you know, and having the skills to be able to know how to use that experience to stand out from the crowd and get you the clients and keep clients, right? Exactly. Exactly. Keep them coming back. Exactly. Well, thank you, Todd, so much for coming on and sharing your story and your journey and your insights. It's been a really interesting conversation. And I'm excited to see what happens next with your studio and I have you come back and you can share. I have a feeling this is not the end of that. No, no, no, definitely not at all. So why don't you share really quickly where people can learn a little bit more about what you do and yes, yeah, well, you can find us at www.thecoreclubusay.com. And if you're in the Dallas Fort Worth area, come to sculptmetx.com. Excellent, fantastic. Well, thanks again, Todd. I was great having you on and we'll speak soon. We'll do. For those of you listening, if you enjoyed what you heard and would like to support us, the best thing to do is to go and click wherever you're listening to this and click that follow or subscribe. But who would help to get this podcast out there into our amazing community to all of those amazing studio owners and teachers who could use a little bit of support and encouragement on their journey in our industry. Did you love this episode and want more? Head to Spring3.com and check out my free resources that will help you run a profitable and fulfilling studio business. And before you go one last reminder, there is no one way to do what you do, only your way. So, whatever it is that you want to do, create or offer, you've got this. Thanks again for joining me today and have a wonderful rest of your day.