Friendly Fire: The Making of Confession

People keep saying that real communism has never been tried. Well, it was Moscow, 1938, arrests in the night, confessions, forced-advinescent people. The Daily Wire's newest movie Confession is a story about just that. It's out right now only on the Daily Wire. For the past week or so, many of us have been wondering when we will be dragged off to the gulags or tortured in prisons for extracted confessions. Well, coincidentally, Ben Chupiro has a movie on that very topic. This is Friendly Fire. Ben, I am so excited. I know we've been pitching this a little bit dishonestly. We've been calling this a narrative movie, a work of drama, from the Daily Wire. When, in fact, this is yet another documentary, albeit one that is just peering into our future, you got this big hip movie Confession. >> Yeah, it's very exciting. Obviously, for us as a company, it's really exciting. It's exciting for me on a personal level because whenever you write something and then you watch it materialize, it's an amazing thing. It's my first time doing this. I know Drew has done this before, but you spend a certain amount of time writing a thing, and then the amount of effort that everyone else puts into making that thing real is pretty flattering. It's kind of an honor. The fact that we as a company are putting out something that obviously I'm speaking about, I feel my role, but I think this thing is extraordinarily high quality. The acting is high quality. >> Can I make a confession? >> I make a confession. You sent me the screener, and it didn't even have my name on it. It was actually a screener for another person, and I got the secondary screener. Okay, so I sit down to watch it, and I expected. I thought it'd be impressive in many ways, but I expected to hear Rob Low open his mouth, or James Franco open his mouth, and hear, "Well, I'm at my mouth, I should play the game." I thought I was like, "Here we go, we're going to." It pains me to say anything complimentary and nice and sincere. I'm watching it, and I'm engrossed in it, and then more and more so, and more and more so. Especially second act through the climax. This is a deeply moving film about a lot of beautiful writing, and excellent acting, and beautiful direction, and I actually had the Sutter. It's like, "Man, I'm like really proud of Ben. I'm like, this is like a lifelong dream that's come about in this beautiful movie. It's just like you really stuck the landing." >> Oh, I appreciate that. And again, I think that for our company, it's a major step forward. >> It's a huge report. >> To produce a film that's not just kind of working within the conservative ecosystem, but the director on this film, Vasil Marhol, was nominated for the Venice Golden Lion for the Painted Burton. He does an incredible job with the direction because, and for those who have seen it, the whole movie basically takes place in two rooms. To make a movie that takes place in two rooms, visually compelling, is nearly impossible. That is all angles, and lighting, and decisions, and making the actors move in particular way, and then to have a cast that has, among the cast, seven Oscar nominations, and Rob Lowe. I mean, that's just a different level. I think anything, forget about Taylor Weiris, that anything that I think anyone in sort of like the conservative side of the aisle in the film area has, I hope it's the entree to doing many more things that are like that, that are quality focused. Because I think that when you're making conservative film, the emphasis tends to be on conservative in that film. >> Yeah. >> In this one, I think it may be the first thing that we've done that is really film first, that just happens to be deeply, deeply rooted in Christianity, by the way, and deeply rooted in anti-communism and conservative values and things that really matter. >> This is really proud of it. >> This is to Jubilant, Insincere, and Exciting. Before I give my first reaction when I saw the movie, I would like to turn to our friend, Mr. Walsh. Can you please-- >> Hey, I thought it was terrible. >> Good. >> It was awful. No, I actually, and I agree with you, I think that the thing that I was surprised, a number of things surprised me. I thought that the things like James Franco's performance, I like James Franco as an actor. The idea of him playing the doing a villain turn as this Soviet bad guy was hard for me to wrap my head around that, and I thought his performance was tremendous. I actually thought he seemed like he was enjoying himself a little bit while I was doing it, which is good, but you could tell the actors are really into the role, even though it's really heavy and difficult material, a lot of ways. So I was surprised by that. These are all really good actors, but I was still surprised by how well they kind of stuck the landing. And then also the emotional impact. So I think that I agree with you. I don't want to give away the ending or anything. I thought that it really, I thought it landed the plane really well emotionally, and it had a real emotional impact. And I think, and I guess we'll spend time talking about the- >> By the way, the producers have informed me. They say spoilers are okay. Because if you haven't seen it, it's already been out, and you haven't seen it yet. You haven't subscribed to Daily Wire and forked over your money to see a beautiful piece of art. That's on you. So you right now, pause this. If you haven't done it, pause this. >> So we can't spoil the ending. >> Spoil it. The communist win. >> I know, I know. >> In terms of James Frank, it was a space alien the whole time. But no, so we'll spend a lot of time talking. I assume about the messages of the film and the kind of the arguments it presents. But to me, I think this is part of, you know, there's a conservative film, but then there's, is it putting conservative first or the film first? Part of putting the film first is to realize that a film is about emotions, I'm making you feel something. And so it's not just presenting an argument, you know, monologue presents an argument. We present arguments with our podcasts. The film makes you feel the argument. It's not just like you walk away from the film, saying, "Oh, that was a correct point," the film made. It may even be raising points that you already sort of knew going in, but it makes you feel it. Like you feel it at a deeper level. It's like looking at a great painting or a sculpture. It's like it's not really presenting an argument, but you feel something that resonates deeply within you. And I thought that this movie did that at a level that I wasn't expecting. >> Drew, please insult Ben when Matt Veil. >> I'm happy to insult Ben personally, but I'll say that for later. My first reaction seriously, when the thing ended was, "Thank God," you know, because I thought it's not that I feel that we've been turning out garbage. I feel that we've been turning out conservative films in the same way that the Christians were turning out Christian films, which I just, you know, I would sit there and watch those Christian films, and I would think, you know, I get it. It does what it's supposed to do, but I can't stand it. You know, I thought, "This is a good movie. This is an actual good movie." And it's like a breakthrough. You know, all this time, I've sort of been saying to our audience, you know, if you don't like something we put out, keep it to yourself, you know, because it's hard. It's hard to do this. It's hard to make a film. Just gathering a cast like this, which is a really good cast. It's virtually, I mean, that was kind of a miraculous thing to do. And it's, it was just, it just worked. And as you say, by the time it gets to those last 35, 40 minutes, I was just going like, "Yes, this is, this is absolutely cooking on all cylinders." And it's an actual movie about something that matters and about something that's incredibly relevant. I thought it was taking place in the past, but it turns out it's taking place in the future, but it's unfortunate. You know, you probably didn't know, but there it is. But I just thought like, you know, jeez, you know, it's a relief, it's a relief, because it's hard. And I think now we have, you know, now we, okay. So you bring up the cast. How'd you get the cast? So the cast is pretty, no, the astonishing cast. I mean, and I will say that I think that the performance is across the board. I talked about, Franco, Rob's performance is truly the best performance of his career, like without a doubt. He was excellent. So the way this came about is that I wrote the script. I have a visceral dislike for vanity projects for a variety of reasons. And so when I wrote the script, I, you know, I thought it was good, but I didn't, I wanted to send it to people who like knew whether it was good or not. So I sent it to a very, very well-known actor who wanted to play Vladimir Part, who ended up being conflicted out and couldn't play a part. Once he had signed on until this is like amazing, I love this script. Then I actually called up Rob, who I'd met peripherally. I believe it a party at one point. Maybe an F away event or something. And I called him up and I said to him, do you know anyone who would work with us? We got this other actor who's in. I'm looking for somebody who would work with us. Like kind of a roblo type. No, precisely, so precisely the opposite, that's like the opposite. So I said to him, do you know anyone who would work with us that you can recommend? Because the part does not scream Rob Lowe, right? He's an old Russian literature professor, supposed to be an alcoholic and itinerant NKVD informer. And so he's got to look terrible. And so Rob said, well, actually, can I just read it? And I said, sure, like I'm flattered that you want to take the time. He called me about an hour later and he was teary on the phone. He said, God has only touched me a couple of times in my life. I feel like this script is God reaching out to me and touching me. Well, and I said, well, I mean, if you feel that way about it, through the first half of the script, you really should read the last half of the script that I really think the thing builds. And he called back and he said, I've really been, I don't do this, I'm begging you, I want to play this part. So with your roblo, if you asked to play the part, he answered, yes, but I'm just telling you, you're way too handsome for this. I mean, legitimately, like if I were going to cast this film from scratch, Rob is not in the top like 50 names that I would think of for this part, anything like Gary Oldman or somebody who kind of looks broken down. And I said to Rob, like, you're too good looking for this, what we're going to have to ugly you up. And Rob said, listen, I'll shave my head. I'll do whatever we need to do. Maybe I should have learned Russian accent. I was like, we're not going to accent. He was late, but he said, I'm willing to be as ugly. And that's why I think when you first watch it, and the first frame of Rob in the film is him crawling into screen and licking liquor from the floor. And it takes a second for you to realize that that's roblo. And I've had so many people who watched the trailer for the film. And until it put up this title card, the death roblo, they didn't know that it was Rob. And so for Rob, it's an unbelievable performance. You have him. So I have now Rob and the other guy who's playing Vladimir dropped. And so then we went and got Baslov as the director who read it, loved it. And then Franco was the next person to join on. And then it was just a matter of Who are great character actors that we can find to fill these roles? And so we were lucky enough to get Nick Nolty to play to the elderly Jewish former polypy remember. And we're Brad Dorif. What a great actor. Brad Dorif was the last person to join the cast. So Brad Dorif, we had somebody who actually was supposed to play that part who passed away in the middle of filming. And on a moment's notice, we cast Brad Dorif, who is such, I gotta tell you, I personally love that casting because Brad Dorif is legitimately in like my top 10 greatest actors of the list. He's the most underappreciated actor of my lifetime. He can do anything. I've built a great performance whose Emil Hirsch, I thought they-- Emil is fabulous. I'm a big fan of his and he kind of blew up his career in the usual Hollywood ways, you know, through a drink and somebody or something like that. I didn't-- Wonderful. He recognized it. Yeah, he's wonderful. And I think that's the thing. Every actor in this movie kind of disappears into the part. Yes. So you don't see Robin or even Franco when you're watching that. You're just watching the character. And so every performance, I've likened it to a baseball game where they're bringing out a reliever every inning, but everyone throws a hundred with a 12/6 curveball because, you know, Jennifer Jason Lee comes in and he just throws a hundred and Cody Smith McPhee comes in and he throws a hundred and in what I think is maybe the most underappreciated performance in the thing, Richard Brake is bogged in. Yeah. Fabulous. Richard Brake, he plays the committed Marxist and he's just, he's terrifying and he's scary but he's also got like a core to him. And the thing that I think that Matt, you were mentioning before, the reason I think that the film works is because it was not built around the arguments. It was built around the characters who make the arguments. And so everybody has to have a reason for the thing that they're doing. The thing that I hate when I watch a movie is when people do things for no reason or no writer writes himself into a box and can't get out and so a character just does something dumb to get you out of the box. I wanted every piece to fit. So I think that, you know, again, speaking about a film that we made, but I think that by the time you get to the end, there's an inevitability. And a truly great film I think does this or a great play. You get to the end and you might not have seen it coming, but then when you look back at all the steps it took to get there, it feels like every step was leading to that thing. And yeah, I think that the film accomplishes that. You know, one of the reasons I really like it is because it's not a movie, it's a play. You just mentioned it's a play. It reads like a play. It also has more words per minute than like any, well, that's very fitting for you. But that's how movies used to be, like good old movies had words in them. And now they just have the Hulk smashing building. >> Today is now a half the length that the scripts of the great movies were. >> Oh, you know what? >> The whole fashion script should be 250 pages. >> You know, one of the things that's amazing about the script, this script, the total shoot script on this film was 82 pages. >> Wow. >> It's 82 pages. It's just that the amount of time that the actors take to chew, like it's really like grab that dialogue and grab hold of it is really an amazing thing. And yeah, it's much more like the studio system, one of the, like the old 1940s and 1950s studio system where it's like, we have a back lot, in that back lot we have two rooms, go make a movie. >> Yeah. >> And so when I was writing it, I was thinking because of the fact that we're not the world's most gigantic. We're not Netflix, we're not going to spend billions of dollars making film. I started with the constraints, which I always think is a fun way to do it. I said, can you write a great film in the minimal number of locations? The whole film is basically in two rooms. >> Yeah. >> The entire film, it's not an exterior shot, it's a shot through a window. >> Okay. Now, I think that's smart, like you want meter and rhyme and poems because it sets limits and things like that. So I think that makes a lot of sense. But can I force you to choose your favorite child, the best performance in the movie, or if you want to hold off, you can diplomatically evade that. And then also, it influences for the writing itself. So you set yourself these restrictions, you say we're going to shoot it in this way with this budget, with these guys, okay, well, where does the story come from? >> So, I mean, in terms of favorite performance, again, it is hard to choose kind of your favorite child. Listen, Rob has to hold that thing down the whole way. I mean, Rob is in every scene in the film. And so the fact that he has to be the center, because he's quiet, right? He could chew the scenery and he doesn't. He's quiet. And so that allows for Franco to do kind of pyrotechnic things on screen and it allows us for a short break to go off and all of that is really generous for Rob as an actor, because most actors, you know, you want to be the center of attention. And so for you to be sacrificial enough to be like, okay, this is your moment to shine. And everybody sort of, I think one of the reasons the actors signed on is because every actor gets a really, really, really meaty bit. Like there's kind of no actors in it who don't have a thing to do that actors would want to do. But yeah, I mean, as far as the kind of literary influences of it. So some of it's drawn from nonfiction, right? The story that Nick Nolte's character tells about the Ukraine and the Halautomar, the Ukrainian famine. Some of that's taken directly from Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands. The sort of initial setup is obviously heavily influenced by darkness and noon by Arthur Kessler. There's segments where I literally pay, I drop like little references for those who are watching, two Russian literature in names. So one of the people whose name is dropped is a professor's name is Strom. It's a reference to a character in life and fate by Vasily Grossman. Obviously lots of Dusty Evsky in there, some check off in there, some Pushkin in there. The most heavy references are obvious, right? They're all to Dusty Evsky, and the entire last part of the film is revolving around Dusty Evsky's large-scale argument about God and about Christ and about the individual versus the state. But yeah, I think that the influences are pretty clear. And again, I'm not going to hide the fact that if I'm going to steal them, I'm still from the best. If I'm going to crib great ideas, go to the people who actually have had them, they're very few new ideas that are going around. I think the reason that the movie Appealed to Matt is because, well, one, it's extremely grim in Russian. But I remember when I had you on the book show, I said, "Well, what book do you want to do?" And you said, "Oh, well, it's got to be, you know, they go to immediately as the death of Ivan Elias." Well, my favorite works of fiction is, it's a great, great, shipper novel. Yeah. Yeah. So I did appreciate that. It feels grim and depressing. But then at the end, you find some hope in it. And I really appreciated what you were talking about. The first scene, the very first shot of Rob Lowe looking the vodka off of the ground. I thought that was a really effective move. And it's the one. You mentioned the Christian faith-based films and often they don't work. They often don't work at all for me. And there's a lot of reasons for that. One of them, though, is that very often Christian and conservative films are afraid to make the protagonist, give the protagonist a real flaw, like make this an actually flawed person, not in a kind of glossy, glittery way, not in a superficial way, but make this like a pathetic flawed person. The reason why, Dostoevsky is so brilliant, or Tolstoy is brilliant, is because their protagonists are sometimes awful people. I mean, these are people that are utterly and totally broken, and so like an ax murderer. Like an ax murderer. Yeah. So that way, once you, if you can find a way to redeem this person, it just lands a whole lot better. So the first thing we're going to see with this guy is he's looking vodka off the floors. This is a pathetic human being, utterly broken. And so can you take us from that to finding redemption for him, which is I imagine a fun writing challenge. And if you can pull it off, then it will land with the audience in a way that a lot of these films sometimes do, because they're just that you're afraid. I think conservatives can be afraid to make the protagonist flawed because they're afraid that I guess, I don't know, the audience will be offended, or we won't want to root for them, or something, and that's just not how good films work. And you know, I, you're reference to Darkness at Noon, which I thought the film's almost a homage to Darkness at Noon. Yeah. For sure. But I think you may be the only person I've ever talked to where I say, you know, there's this wonderful book, Darkness at Noon, and you knew it backwards in the film. I have a copy back. Yeah, you have a sewing copy. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean, I have a nice book collection of like my favorite novels, and now also scripts, like I've, I've just recently got a man for all seasons signed by Robert Bowles. And cool. Yeah. Or I'm a day as signed by Peter Schaefer. But yeah, I have a signed copy. But this is a book, a signed copy of Solzger needs in there. But this is a book that is almost forgotten. It's a classic, I think. It's an amazing. It's an amazing. And it's almost forgotten. And when you watch these kids, you know, talking about socialism and all this and when you see, you know, socialist candidates putting themselves forward, you think, how did we forget? You forget because you don't read, you know, you forget, because you don't hear it. So, the fact that you're bringing these arguments back is like, I think, urgently important. And one of the things that's fun about the film in the sense is that I'm hoping that it's a gateway drug for people to actually go and read a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Meaning like, there's a lot of, I'm not talking down to the audience. I'm saying like, rise to the level of the people who are actually talking in the film. So, they're making open references to literature, and you may not get all of those. I mean, like, my wife watched the movie and she doesn't understand every single reference because she doesn't read Russian literature. And so, but, but she knows enough of what's going on that it doesn't inhibit the plot. It doesn't inhibit the character. No, not at all. But I think that it is an invitation to engage with the greatest ideas in human history. And so, if you do, and the greatest writing in human history. And so, doing that, I think, is a well worth while sort of secondary assignment for folks. Yeah. Yeah. Anything about Dostoevsky's got me already, you know. Of course. Yeah, of course. It's annoying because Dostoevsky's right about everything, but Tolstoy observes human nature better than Dostoevsky does. Anyway, they compliment each other very well. You mentioned the kind of modern tie-ins here, and we're joking at the top that, you know, this is a great insight into the prisons that we're all going to be going to, but, but obviously that's been building for a while. And attractiveness of socialism, the fact that the DSA is now more popular with mainstream Dems than the Democrats on Capitol Hill are. So why do it? Obviously, when I first read this, I thought, okay, this is great, especially because it isn't in many ways an homage to Arthur Kessler and Darkness at noon. But why resurrect this kind of a storyline from this great work from the mid-20th century about events that were happening in the early to mid-20th century? Why now? Is it because of AOC basically? >> It really wasn't. I mean, I don't think that I was sitting there unconsciously thinking, okay, the Democrats are moving in the socialistic direction, need to write something about socialism. They're just certain periods in human history. I think that because all of us are in the news every single day, and if you read history, then you just spot echoes, and those echoes just resonate, not even because you're thinking about what's going on, but just like, you'll be walking around like, oh my gosh, this is so reminiscent of an event that I remember reading about from 1932. And so I just been reading a ton of this, specifically because I was so concerned about everything that's sort of going on. And when you have all that percolating in your brain, that's the way that it comes out. And it was funny. When we first looked at the script, so I didn't, I'm on the board, but I can't approve my own script for production, right? So it was the rest of everyone else decided to approve the script for production. And there are questions, is this a square enough hit with the audience that will actually drive them? And that's a totally relevant question you have to ask as a business. Like, is this well within sort of the over-ten window of what our audience is willing to watch and listen to? And when I was sort of forced to give the elevator pitch for this, for people who are just mostly politically conservative and not driven by it's just a great movie, the elevator pitch for it is the single most anti-communist pro-Christian film probably ever made, which I think is actually a fair characterization of the thing. I mean, we will talk about communism, but I mean, you're the Christians in the room. I think it is fair to say that it is the most robust defense of Christianity since the passion. Well, I think you're obligated not to convert, though, I think, I just watched it and I thought, I think I have no argument. We have not evangelized this man, because we're so polite and nice, you know, we like them and all this stuff. But after watching this, I thought, no, wait a minute, I'm sorry. My actual reaction, which I texted you after I watched the movie, was, you know, I saw like this part, this part, this part, also which parish have you been going without telling any of us? Yeah, it's really, because it wasn't, it hit two things that I thought were really important. One, when we talk about communism, the kind of boomer, conservative, belt-weight thing is to say, dude, you don't understand communism doesn't work and, you know, the collectivist economics is going to destroy the economy and blah, blah, blah. It's like, I don't, yeah, I do want low taxes. I agree, but life is about more than maman and material. The essential problem with communism is not just the economic disadvantage. All those things come later. It's that it hates God. You know, it's like Marx hates God and that's what it's all about. The other thing that got me though is, you know, yeah, I don't mean to pick on these Christian films because I think they did an important thing. You, I think you do mean to pick on them. I just don't like them, but, but the one, one of the things that always gets me is they don't hit the key aspects of Christianity and I think this is true of a lot of American Christians is that it hurts, it costs, you know, it's a sacrifice. And I think that so much, I always think of that scene and God is not dead with a guy finally converts, accepts God and he gets hit by a truck and people say like, oh, well, at least he's saved. I thought he's dead, you know, like are we talking about that? We call his wife first, you know, and I think like, no, this is like, this actually gets at the fact that Christianity, if you follow it, if you follow Jesus Christ, you're going to, it's going to cost you. And I think in a lot of American Christianity, it's like they want to have your, have your Christ, but eat your cake, you know, and I think that that's, that's not what this says, which is just like a relief for you. Well, I mean, again, that's, you know, that is a perspective that is extremely home to Judaism, right? So my own personal perspective, you know, that, to me, one of the key aspects of religion is what are you willing to sacrifice for? What are you willing to do to say the thing that you know in your heart is true? And, you know, I think that the, the sort of final confrontation between Franco and Rob, this kind of long scene where Franco is beating a little hell out of it. And he's taking the side of the inquisitor in the, in the, in the grand inquisitor from, from Caramazov. And he's making an argument, and that's what he's saying. He's saying, listen, you know, like, you're, you're asking me to sacrifice everything. And Rob is like, well, yeah, that's, that, that is the thing that we're asking you to sacrifice. Yes, everything. Yes. Yeah. And then, and then when Rob actually does that, it was fun to write this because they're, I'm sure because so many of us have written various creative works that, that, you know, there's always a moment it happens where you stumble on a great idea while you're writing. And you kind of chuckle to yourself because this is a great, like, this is a great thing. That happened to me with reasons to vote for Democrats. Exactly. Exactly. Hit me. I remember sitting there, the moment I realized that I was going to have Rob atone to James. Right. And I was going to have the main character, Alexey atone to Vladimir, that had been buried the whole time. And of course, the whole script, I think, was a four day process. It was very, very fast. Well. But long for you. Yeah. A little bit. But yeah, like four days is, yeah, quick. But I remember when that happened, I thought, like, but that's what he's called to do. Like, the whole thing is redeeming yourself. How do you redeem yourself? You redeem yourself by repenting. How do you repent? You actually have to repent. You actually have to do the thing. Yeah. And so that's what's so receptive about his character arc, is that you go from thinking, this is the good guy who's standing up in the face of the evil states realizing, this is a flawed guy who actually does need to do the thing that he does at the end. That's why it's redemptive. Yeah. You know, like, again, spoiling the film, if you haven't seen it, spoiler alert, like, a thousand times over. But at the end, the main character doesn't, like, go home happy. Yeah. And that's not what happens. Yeah. No, this is the moment. I mean, one, it calls to mind real saints. Not like saints in hallmark movies, but like real saints who have problems. Yeah. Who was it? John Vianney, Saint John Vianney who said, the saints didn't all start well, but they all ended well. Yeah. And so this guy has this saintly aspect to him by the end. And so to your point on the inevitability of the character arc, he gets there at the end and you've all seen the movie. And if you haven't, you subscribe to dailywear.com/subscribe. We appreciate it greatly and you'll enjoy it and be edified by it. By the end, he's standing there. He says, I'm going to confess. And in the four senses of texts, this has a double meaning when he's confessing to this crime against the state, but he's also confessing his faith. And so he's confessing to Walter White's brother. And so he's confessing to this drug agent from Albuquerque and Brinkband. And so, but anyway, he's confessing there. And you have this thought as the audience member, which is, well, hold on, why he got off. And maybe he could fulfill his penance and, you know, live at his faith later. And maybe he could reconcile with his wife and maybe he could reconcile with his kid. And maybe he could do some more good by just saying, look, all right, the priest is already on the box cars and look, James Franco is getting what's coming to him anyway. I don't really feel bad for him. Why does he, but then you think, well, hold on, he's going to, if he lets that happen, he's going to walk out of the commissar's room. And he's going to be dead. He'll be spiritually dead. He actually, this is the moment, this is what he's called for. This is the question, you know, faith without works is dead, you know, your faith produces works. Okay, well, here you are. Are you going to make your confession of the actual crime you have committed, the civil crime, you know, the violation of the civil law that you've committed, and the true confession of your faith to a man that you could be evangelizing. Because in the moment, he's evangelizing the commissar most directly, and he's evangelizing indirectly James Franco, who might discover that the moment where they're walking down the hallway, and he leans over and he kisses Franco on the forehead. And I remember, again, writing that and thinking to myself, that's, that's what I play, because the, because the, that is a signal, they're both literary students, they've just had this gigantic debate over, does they have skin, particularly over caramass off? And the, and so that is a signal to Franco, go home and read, right, he's saying to him, like, and, and Franco picks up the signal and he goes home and takes a look, and he goes home and he picks up the signal and that's why he's reading the book at the end. He's reading that exact segment. That is the very end of the, of the Grand Inquisitor, which, again, is where basically Christ's love conquers the evil sadism and power, the pure power of the state. There's also just a curse to me now. His son, Rob Lowe's son, this is him and doesn't get anything, and it's just a total loss soul, and you have this kind of adopted son, with the student who comes in and he, with this beautiful filial kiss at the end that really calls tears to the eyes, you, you know, you, you have this sense of adoption, which is in itself a profoundly, essentially Christian theme. Yeah, they, they, they, it was, there, there's certain things that, that Voslav is a director in the film, that are not written in the script. And one of the things that he did is, in the, in the scene, which is, again, it's brilliantly directed, like to understand how brilliantly direct, so he also films it in the weirdest way possible. So, this thing was filmed in 35 millimeter, like actual film, not digital. And the way that he filmed was, instead of filming full scenes with the camera on Franco and then full scenes with the film on Rob and then cutting it together, he filmed two minute segments and then he would stop and then he would break and then they would do the next two minutes. And so he, he, what, what he was doing there is he wants every, instead of you're trying to sustain, especially the first scene, 20 minutes or 15 minutes or whatever it is of, you know, intense dialogue. It's like, I need you to sustain this for, for two minutes. I need you to, like, bring your fastball for two minutes. And at the time, Dallas and Dallas Sonia, who is the producer on it, you know, I looked to the channel, like, this is the weirdest thing. this thing. And then it's stitched together like the intensity of the performances is astonishing. Well, you know what I need you to bring right now Ben? I need you to bring the intensity of your performance to selling home title lock. Done. 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If you're a victim, their team of restoration experts will spend up to a million bucks for storing your title. One's the last time you check your title records. I know the answer is never. You've never done that. Head on over to hometitelock.com. Use promo code DailyWire to get a free title history report plus a free trial of million dollar triple lock protection. So you can make sure you're not already a victim. Again, that's hometitelock.com promo code DailyWire. >> Can I say about the director? I think I text this to you after I watch it. The other thing that impressed me was it moves. It feels like the movie is moving and it keeps the camera moving a lot. So even though you're trapped in this, it's not just that you're in one location, it's not just one or two rooms. These are drab, non-descript, dreary, gray rooms. >> It's a dungeon. >> Yeah, it's literally it's a dungeon. So it'd be very easy to shoot that in a way where even if the dialogue is great, even if the performances are great, it just feels static and it becomes oppressive to just sit there and watch it. But it seems like you found a way to just keep the thing moving so that it didn't feel like you were claustrophobic. >> There's no score to the film. >> Huh, there's music at the very beginning and there's music at the very end and that's the entirety of the music. I didn't notice that. >> Right, well, as first of watching it, it's because he's basically doing choreography. He's basically dancing with you, with the camera. It's such a horrible thing that he's doing there. It's really amazing. >> I noticed that too and that's really hard to pull off not having a score. I think that's, I mean, not to be critical of our own work, but I think we tried that in terror on the prairie, hasn't it? >> Yeah, yeah, they do. >> And in that movie, I think it doesn't work. I think that movie needed a score. Most movies do. No country for old men, my favorite movie all time, has no score and it just absolutely works because the score is, you know, it's the wind. It's the tension in the room. It's like when he flips the quarter up, but it hits the table. That's part of the score of the movie. And in this case, yeah, it really does work and you would think that it wouldn't simply because there's not a lot of ambient, so one of the problems of being in a dungeon, there's also not, at least with no country for old men, you've got the wind and you're out in the desert and stuff. But there's not a lot of ambient noise either. And so it really has to be carried by the dialogue and it has to be carried by the visuals and the movement of the camera. I think he does a tremendous job. >> He's also got that scene. I wrote you about it, I think, or maybe I told you about it on the phone. Very opening, they put him in a small cell, a stand-up cell. And I have just a trace of claustrophobia. You know, I've been in caves and things like that and I just don't like it very much. And I have to say, I had to stand up when I was watching it. I just said, "Ah, you know, I don't like that." So total vaslav addition, by the way, when I first wrote the script, that wasn't in there. And vaslav said, "Hey, you know, so one of the things that vaslav really gets about this, which is, he's from Eastern Europe, so he grew up under communism." So one thing he gets is everything about. For sure. And so he said, you know, they're the standing cells that were in the Woobianca. Can you write that in the script? He said, "Absolutely, that's taking me five minutes. I'll just put down in the script." That is so creepy, right? I mean, they put him in a cell that is legitimately not big enough. And these were real. They would put you in there for like a day and you couldn't sit down, you couldn't lie down, you basically are just slumped against the wall stuffed into something that's half the size of a telephone booth. And you know, there are things he's doing there. And the thing I was going to mention that he does is because you're mentioning his son and they kind of juxtaposition of Franco and Cody in terms of the switch in character in the scene where Rob is talking to his son. He's talking to his son. And one thing that's not in the script is all these cutaway shots to Franco. Right? If you watch the film, you can see Franco reacting to the thing that Rob is saying. So Rob is not talking to Franco. Franco is talking, Rob is talking to Cody. But in the script, there's no reference to what's going on with Franco. Franco, there are a bunch of cutaways. And you can see that what Rob is saying to Cody is actually kind of hitting with Franco. You can see that he's actually like a little curious kind of like mildly interested. But again, the whole cat and mouse of the thing, that's what I love the most. Like in the first scene where you can see the dynamics shifting with every line where there's a point where it's like Franco's in total control. He's got Rob off his guard. And then Rob says, what do you make of this particular analysis of crime and punishment? And he says, what does it matter what I think? And he says because you have a soul and you see for this first time that Rob is now in the inferior position. And it pisses him off. And you can see that he's like, the James isn't the inferior position, it pisses him off. And you can see he wants to like get up and hit him. And you can feel that. It's, I love that stuff. I think it's just. >> The scene, so you're saying that when he's in the little tiny narrow cell that wasn't originally in the script. >> Correct. >> That's really interesting to me. Because for me, that ended up being from my experience as an audience member. That was a really important scene because in a kind of understated way because it was in that moment. I had the same kind of physical reaction to it. And so now I'm just from seeing that scene of him trapped in this little narrow room. Now I'm invested. Like I feel bad for the guy. And so it almost becomes, I don't fully subscribe to the kind of save the cat model where you have to have the save the cat moment. But it kind of is that. It's kind of a, it's like the, it's the thing I see early on where, man, I kind of relate. Like I felt that. I felt that myself. I felt myself being trapped in that little dungeon. And so now I'm kind of with this guy. And I feel bad for him. And so it kind of worked in that way. >> Yeah. They're bunch of these kind of like minor things, but they're not minor at all because it's a lot of touches that Voss love would suggest or that the actors would suggest. Like the, in the script, it's like, okay. And so James, James takes the glass and he pours it full of vodka, and then he pushes it over to Rob. Because I don't like describing physical action in my scripts because it is boring to me. The dialogue is interesting to me. And so what James does when he does that, he takes the glass and he starts swirling it slowly in front of Rob. That's an actor's decision to do that. There's a couple of other things where Voss love is saying, listen, this is great dialogue, but they can't just sit there and talk at each other for 15 minutes of room. It's too boring. I need them to move around. So there's one poem when I was on the set. He calls me over and he says, listen, I want James to tell Rob to Neil. And I said, it's too early in the script for him to physically intimidate him, right? It kind of escalates. The first scene is intellectual kind of gamesmanship. The second scene is I'm going to use your families to pressure tactic and by the third kind of major encounter or force because you have the wife and then the son. By the fourth major encounter, you get to like down to brass stacks. I need to beat the living crap out of you. But the physical intimidation is too early. And so he said, well, I can't have him still sitting there. How do we get him in a kneeling position? And like, can I just have him tell him to Neil? And I said, don't do that. It's too much. He said, what if I have him ask Rob to Neil? What if I say, Neil, please, right? And the please is more scary and intimidating than just if he told him to Neil. And so now you have that image of Rob kneeling and Franco standing above him, you know, as he's reading the pamphlet, right? And like it moves like that. So it really is an extraordinarily cooperative process that is required. I mean, again, you've done it many more times than I have. But it's it's always kind of astonishing. Well, it's astonishing what actors do. It's astonishing that actors take your words. And it's not like they change the meaning of them, but they give them this humanity. And as you say, it's it's a very humbling process because you you sit there in a room by yourself and you write this thing down. And then, you know, Michael Cain or somebody just takes it and he's like, Oh, my God, yeah. I mean, I didn't even think of that way. I'm reading the line and now you're reading the line that way. Like he added the word Batman. Yeah. It's so amazing. But he said it with like this weird accent too, you know, yes. And being me, you know, I would assume I'm playing sometimes and they'd be playing a film that I have been involved with. And I'd be thinking there's a beautiful girl having my words going into her ear. You know, your business card just falls. Oh, I'm so embarrassed. I dropped my I dropped my sorry, my WGA membership card. Oh, what are the odds that you're watching? So on this point of like the this fictional world that you've created this, you know, living truthfully in imaginary circumstances, the whole movie is grounded in very real historical moments and places. Where's the line there? Or is it all it's all it all basically could have happened. So the the line is that when you're dramatizing something like this that you have to play with the setting. So I would say that in the Libyanca, the chances that you would ever have one prisoner being brought down the hallway and narrow hallway, the other prisoners bring brought the other way, probably pretty low because they have procedures that probably prevent that. It doesn't matter, you got to do it. It's necessary for the drama. In the Libyanca, would you really have had four people all who have beds or would you have two people in beds and then the next room has two, right? It's sort of like formalistic stuff like that and you know you're messing around with the place. But again, it's more of like the gestalt of what is the little Bianca like rather than, you know, is due to a blueprints of the little Bianca. So some of the aspects are obviously incredibly accurate, the creepiest shot in the film, which is as Rob is coming down toward the actual place where they're going to murder him. And we've got the guy with the mop, mopping up the floor, which is a super creepy shot. Like that's accurate, like we actually looked at pictures of the little Bianca at the time. The art direction on this is amazing. The person who was actually doing all of the reconstruction and accuracy was working off of the legit pictures of the little Bianca. And this, the whole set was built from scratch, right? This is all on a sound stage in LA. And so they literally just put together every single bit of it. And then when it was done, maybe you constructed it and just went away and no longer existed. It's pretty incredible. >> That's beautiful, because that is something that our audience, I think, is going to care about, and conservatives care about, because conservatives, I mean, you knock me for this all the time, because I'm a Philistine, and we don't, like, we don't read fiction, and we don't, like, if a conservative is going to read, he's going to read nonfiction, conservatives tend to prefer, like, you're running the milk conservative, prefers the literal to the figurative or the abstract. And so the grounding in that kind of reality, and practicality, I think, matters, because, I don't know, am I overstating it to say that our political opponents these days would put us all up against the wall. >> I mean, some of them are all been lesaners. >> Yes, some of them would be happy to do it. I don't think that's, it's overstating it at all. >> I think that they are hemmed in by good grace from saying the thing, but if they, some of them, not mean by that. >> They celebrated Charlie Kirk's death. >> It's the reaction to Charlie's murder, you know, where you had huge numbers of leftists who were, like, not just wackos on the internet, it's not just a sonpiper. >> No, that's the terrible thing, yeah. >> It's like the lady who sits next to you at work, and she's doing it too. Speaking of a sonpiker, by the way, did you, do you see the sonpiker react to the trailer for your movie? >> Do we have it? >> Yes, your eyes are not deceiving you. Rob Lowe is starring in a screenplay written by Benjamin Shapiro. And he's not alone in this production. He'll see some other notable faces. What is going on, brother? What the fuck is happening? That's right. It's James Franco. I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you. >> Like, this is an actual cast. >> This is an actual cast, Dean Norris, dude, Dean Norris, Emil Hirsch, Dean Norris. >> Have you ever seen a child start a death professor? >> No, I have. >> Come on, is AI slop? No, this is a real movie, what are you talking about? >> I'm most fascinated, not, I mean, it's funny that he thinks it's a good movie, and you're seeing that subverted expectation and all that. Who watches that? >> He's just sitting there, he has no talent, I never realized that. >> He's just sitting there silently, we're like having the opposite reaction that he had to the movie, but he's just sitting there silently, repeating himself as if he's currently incurring brain damage. And people, you can see the thing is ticking up of viewers, so somebody is watching this. Why would you watch that? I mean, I watched that for the amusement, that was fun, that was fun, that was fun, that's funny. >> I had no idea, it was so untalented, I thought, you must have some talent to be that popular, but no, it's a phenomenon. >> Why are people watching? I don't want to talk about your stupid idea anymore, I want to talk about his really stupid show. >> My favorite thing is that he then went on in that clip, he's like, who is this even for? Who wants to watch it? And I was like, you, you get some flag of Communist China in his studio behind him, I'm not even kidding. So like, you, Madude, it was for you, it was my gift to you. >> Routin for James Franco is such a great protagonist in this movie. You know, this is this article that was on RCP, I don't know where it originated, of somebody saying we cannot live with Ben Shapiro being a major Hollywood player, and they really do feel that way, by the way, they really can't live with it, but it's another part of this is that, I hate to say this, but up until now, they've been able to ignore what we do, which is their first, it's always their first line of defense, just to completely ignore you, you know. I mean, ever since I came out as a conservative of my book, stop getting reviewed, you know, in major things, but I don't think they can do that with this. I think that they kind of have to at least attack you. >> It was kind of impressive, the outrage level at the release of the trailer was kind of astonishing. And some of the stuff that we do is half throw away, right? Infinals, of course, there's going to be outrage, it was designed to be outrage, that's what it is. This, I think that the fact that people were so angry at it, I think it was indicative of the fact that they were feeling pretty threatened by the fact that we're playing in their sandbox. And listen, it makes a big difference to have professional actors saying and doing things like you need people who are good at things. This is one of the things that I'm hoping, and not hoping, we are doing this moving forward. We want people who are not good by, quote unquote, conservative standards, we want people who are just the best at what they do and who will work with us. That's it. Those are the only requirements. >> And even though they don't have to be names, it's good that they're names, but it's also true that really good actors tend to become names at some level. >> Yeah, or faces. When I talk with Dallas about how we're going to cast all of our films, one of the things that I usually say is, he has what he calls the Louisiana Cousin Test, which is like would my Louisiana Cousin know who that person is? And it's sort of an interesting test because there are certain people who, you know, Louisiana Cousin would know who are less famous as quote unquote actors, but they would know. So your Louisiana Cousin might have seen Star Wars as a kid who knows who Hayden Christensen is, but has no clue who Zendaya is. And so picking people who the audience will know, or faces they can recognize, it needs to be somebody who you can look at that guy, right, that guy, it's that guy. And so when you're watching this film, it's one of the fun surprises of the film is you're watching, like, oh my God, is that Nick Nolte? I'm pretty sure that's Nick Nolte, when he's first there, he's in shadow, he's in the bed, you can't see him at all. And then you start to realize, oh, wait, that is Nick Nolte, or, oh my God, that's why the big reveal that freaked people out in the trailer was when Franco sits down, when Franco sits down and you see his face and they're like, oh my, they got like an actual movie star. Yeah. And they got like many actual movie star, and it's a big deal. No, this is kind of, it's a great movie to lie back in your bed and watch on the TV. And you'll, you'll sit up, even though you'll be totally ensconced in your bowling branch sheets, so you'll feel great even as your shock registers on your face. We've all gotten to try different things from bowling branch, so I'm curious folks, what is your favorite bowling branch product, Drew? Mine, it's the sheets, I mean, because I lie awake all night, I do not sleep. And I always feel guilty selling these to people, because I know they're so comfortable to just fall asleep, but I get to experience them and they're really nice. I think I have almost all of the bowling branch products, and I've gotten some for free. I've also bought bowling branch products, even though I'm a cheapskate, because they're the best. They are actually the best. Yes. What say you, Drew? What does the teleprompter say for you? Well, you know, like I said, I can't sleep most, I really don't sleep very much at all. I mean, I'm Donald Trumpian in my sleep habits, but I want to be comfortable, because I'm actually lying there, I don't get up and do things, you know, I don't want to tweet things to people in the middle of the night. So I lie there, and I think like these are really comfortable sheets, and they stay cool, which is another big thing for me. I travel with the throw blanket. I actually do. Yeah, I literally put it in the suitcase, because the hotel sheets are just not good. I literally put bowling branch product in my suitcase. Is that Linus walking around with the blanket around? Absolutely. So now speaking of gifts, bowling branch makes great gifts that you can now even customize. Right now, you can get early access to bowling branches, best sale of the year. Be the first to shop 25% off, plus free shipping, and extended returns at bowlingbranch.com/dailywire with code dailywire that is bowling branch, B-O-L-L-A-N-D branch.com/dailywire, code dailywire, for access to 25% off exclusions apply. Do you know what people are saying about this movie? Have you been following it? Are you on Twitter? Do you have it? Do you know what Glenn Beckset? Glenn Beckset, quote, "My good friend Ben Shapiro is shaking things up, seven Oscar nominations with this cast. We are living in a different world, keep it up dailywire, can't wait." Our friend David Limbaugh said, "I watched Ben Shapiro's movie confession today. Oh my gosh. It is fabulous." We'll see the angry ones. These are boring. This is a wrap. It said, "Damn. Look at the actors in this. Rod Draer said, "I just finished an advanced copy of confession." Out in November 11th, words fail. one of the most philosophically and theologically profound films I've ever seen. And one of the most deeply Christian, you know who wrote it, a believing Orthodox Jew, Ben Shapiro. Now I can't help but notice, we haven't seen the reviews yet from the Ben Shapiro fan club of Tucker. I don't see any Tucker review yet or a Candace review. I don't have they said anything about the film? - Let me, you know, you mentioned Candace. I mean, so Candace apparently has like a reward out for who can say who I was dining with. I was having like a brunch when, when unfortunately I had a front trial, I couldn't go shot. And so, you know, now's as good a time as any. I can say that the reason I couldn't talk about it is because the person I was having brunch with was Rob, Rob and I were having brunch in LA when all this going is, really, it was quite a time. - What is the thing about the, oh yeah, she's like a 10,000. So I guess, I don't know this stuff all that cool. - She said that she, there was some weird conspiracy theory that she had that I, and some Jew from Nebraska, I'd never heard of. We're having breakfast and apparently-- - Pause right there. - Do they have Jews in Nebraska? - I know, I didn't know they had a whole-- - This one, that story. - And then it was, yeah, her usual steak about everybody being in on Charlie's murder or something. And then she offered like the broad world, the $10,000 reward. - So do we get to split this 10 grand? - Well, I mean, I think that she owes it to me and I think that I will just give it to Eric and his kid to be the best way to actually-- - Hold on, so that, yeah. - Was that, so you've obviously, (laughs) when did she say this? I don't know, a couple months ago maybe. - Okay, so you've known this and you knew that you were having lunch with Rob Lowe. - Yes. - And you waited until this moment to reveal that so that you could get moved to fund, the money to fund your next move. - Yeah, if actually, too, like for Google it. That's gonna be the one. That is very funny. - This time, they're sure. - The whole, whatever this thing is, you're having lunch with Rob Lowe. - Yes. - Yeah, it was, yeah, it was, it's pretty, I mean, it's a funny-- - It needs a fun shot, right? - Exactly, secretly, very, very-- - Yeah, yeah. - Relayers deep massage, Rob. - Wow, that's, that's very impressive. Okay, so before we go, Pitch, who can I shake down for money? I'm like, you've put a good idea into my head. Who can, I want to shake down somebody for $10,000. Before we go, why do people need to subscribe to Daily Wire to watch this movie? - Oh, they should definitely see this film because they're not gonna see it anywhere else. That's the first thing. They're not gonna see it anywhere else. It's relevant to the moment. It's historically accurate. It's moving. You know, why would you not see it? Where else are you gonna go to get some content like this? - Yeah. - And it's a, it's a good film. So I think that's, that's the first thing, but it's actually a good film. Go watch a good film. And it's a, and it has a great message, yes, but it's also, it's, I would say this, you mentioned the reaction in how angry people were. It's, it's a really interesting contrast because, you know, run hide fight infidels came out and then this movie was announced shortly after. Run hide fight infidels is not trying to be the same kind of movie, but it is much more aggressive, it's a much more aggressive movie and it's messaging. I would say, though, that from, from my vantage point, the reaction to confession, which is much more subtle and much less intentionally provocative, was a lot more, there's a much angrier reaction to confession. And there's a reason for that. I mean, I think this movie is disruptive in a way that a kind of trolling movie can't be because, you know, the left, you make a trolling movie is a great, but you make that kind of movie in the left kind of, they have a, they know what to do with that. They say, okay, sure, they're being trolling fine. Once you start kind of playing in their sandbox and once you do something that has artistic credibility, that's the part that scares them. And I think that's how you disrupt the culture in a way. And so, subscribe for that reason, you know. There's also, there is like an actual religious import to the movie, which is, you should see it. What you want, you should see it so that we can keep the lights on and keep doing the Michael and I'll show. And that's like a good, that's the main reason. But a secondary reason for that is, it actually is a spiritually edifying movie and you should recognize the stakes of your spiritual life and recognize what you were actually called to when you profess faith in Christ and that it's not just all acoustic guitars and, you know, like happy clapy stuff, but it involves like actually whoever will save his life will lose it and whoever will lose his life for my sake will gain it. So, you actually get that message at the very end from a guy in Iyamaka, who's secretly been going to some trad parishion before that telling me. - I know, I think, I see him on my lap. - Yeah, I say we baptize him like here and now. - Yeah, that's great, enough is enough. - I did say that once, we were on an airplane and we were talking about like incarnational theology and all of a sudden, Pansick rolling his eyes and I said, all right, all right, I'll shut up about it. But I had a cup of water. I was like, but if it gets a little shaky, okay. All right, that's it. Go watch the movie if you haven't seen the movie yet, dailywear.com/subscribe, go see it right now so that you can watch the Michael Noel show after we're in the lights today. I'll see you there.