Fresh FInds Podcast Season 5 Episode 7 W/ TOED

Hello and welcome back to season five of the Fresh Finds podcast. The show about discovering new music with good people. I'm Ryan and this episode I'm joined by Kai, Simon and Matt from the band Toad. How are we doing guys? Doing good. Awesome to hear. Exciting. So people who have watched the Fresh Finds podcast for a little while will know that Toad are no strangers to the show. You have been on before. However, there are a few fresh faces since then. So if you guys want to introduce yourselves and then we can kind of get into the rest of the episode here. Cool. Hello. I'm Simon. I'm the I sing for Toad. I do a little bit of writing. Yeah. Nice to meet you. Hey everybody. My name is Kyle Touse. I play a little bit of bass, play a little guitar. I sing a little, do backing vocals and yeah, that's my role in Toad. What's going on? My name is Matt. I am recently kind of been involved with the band. I've been helping streamline some of the mixing and post production aspects of the upcoming album. So excited to be here. Nice. Yeah. And so kind of, I guess to start out, because it's just as good a place as any, do you kind of Kai want to talk a little bit about how The Toad family has grown over the past couple of years because like it really has been, it's not like been, you know, revolving door so much is just more and more people getting added to the family. So like, you know, what's kind of been the whole, you know, the whole situation there? Yeah. For sure. I mean, I can touch on that a little bit. Toad started out just me and some guys that I met at an open mic. We eventually brought in Jahan or current bass player and then eventually that led to Simon who was buddies with Jahan, he came out to a show in New York and it was just like, can I sing one of the songs? We popped them on the stage and the rest was history. So from the early days, there was really a philosophy of utilizing all skill sets available. You know, if one person could play guitar, but also it was great on bass or vice versa, we were going to explore all those different avenues and voices. With this project, we kind of brought Matt in as our mixer and master and to help with production and whatnot as a result of, you know, just kind of life got in the way for some of us and we needed, we needed some help. Sure. And we outsourced it to Matt, who's buddies from us from another band times New Roman, which I'm sure he'll get into. But yeah, Matt stepped in, you know, has been a big help for us and it's been fun. You know, he's got a little different philosophy and approach to production. So it's kind of grown into this new toad sound and collective that we're experiencing. Currently. I feel like that's kind of a thing, you know, this band is such a melting pot of different influences because there's so many people who kind of have, you know, their fingers in the different aspects of it, whether it's songwriting production, you know, whatever else. And I think that that's part of what makes this band really unique. I was just listening to the singles so far from the new album, which we'll get to in just a second, but I was just listening to the singles that are out so far and it is really interesting how diverse you guys are in terms of your sound and the types of influences that you pull from. How has the songwriting evolved since more and more people have joined the band? Like I'm sure the songwriting process has changed quite a bit. Honestly, it kind of just goes by as needed. We set out to write an album to have like, however many songs, what is it like, eight? And so initially it was just we were going to all write as many songs as we could and bring them to practice and see which ones we liked and use those, but we kind of tapped that well after a few of those songs. So then it was kind of, he's just praying everybody, he's chewing on the XLRs, so it kind of. Honorary band members. Yeah. Sorry, Sam. We got to a point where it was like, well, we're not writing whole songs at home and we need something. Yeah. So just came to practice with like an incomplete riff and be like, can anyone else do anything with this? Sure. Slowly but surely you'd like one practice, be just me and Kai and now we have a bass and a guitar part. And then eventually Michael would hear the song and it's just how is he going to add his layer to it. And so it's cool, you know, you start with your own vision when you write one part of the riff, but it very quickly becomes its own thing entirely. Takes on a life of its own way, yeah, for sure. And like I completely grew with all that. We initially had set out, basically a year ago we did a trip to New York and on the way back we were like, we got to do something big, we had singles, we've done the EP, we're going to start this process. So we initially set out to do 10 songs, five singles and do like water, waterfall release style. But you know, time went on and we realized how big of a bike that would be. Yeah. You know, we made it to four singles, eight songs, I mean, it's going to be a 40 minute, you know, eight songs. It's a healthy length, but in terms of the writing aspect, you know, there were some intentional sit downs between Simon and I primarily where we were like, all right, we've got these ideas and we got to flesh something out more specifically and then bring it to the band. But like waste my time, for example, is really cool. That's not a single, but it'll be one of the better ones was one of the more recent ones match, just mix, matte, just mixed and it's sounding really, really awesome. So excited for that one to come out. But I came up with that riff for that song when I was in like middle school and just never like the words or melodies that I was coming up with, I brought it to Simon. And he laid down some just super powerful grungy vocals or drummer John at the end was like, let's throw in some odd time signature things here and kind of kind of sculpt how that outro happened. And then our bassist, Jahan came up with this riff that went over that time. So that was a really interesting one as collectively everybody wrote a good chunk to it. Yeah. And it doesn't always happen that way, but we try to facilitate that in this process as much as possible. Yeah. And I think that that's, you know, a big thing about bands that have longevity a lot of the time is you need to, if you're leaning on any one person too much and they kind of run out of gas, then that's kind of the project starts to run out of gas. But if you're able to, you know, kind of bounce ideas off of each other, then there's a lot more that you're able to do collectively that kind of like, you know, keeps the momentum going. You know, 2024 was a little bit of a slower year for Toad compared to 2023 and what 2025 is going to be just, you know, you guys took a little bit of a break from play because you had some sort of thing happen with your arm, right? Yeah. Actually, I had to get labor repair surgery. So that was a six month, you know, process of got surgery and then PT just like I could barely do this with my arm after that week. I was in a sling for six weeks. So I kind of throw through a wrench into at least music production, but I, we still booked a lot of shows and played it a bunch. We played art speeds and eats at the end of the summer, which is probably one of our bigger shows to date. But yeah, there was probably a month long stretch there where we come down, but oh, there was one show that we played at the loving touch about a year ago when I, when I wasn't able to play and we got, we had to get some replacements. So and I was more of like an MC slash height, maybe. And that actually worked really well, you know, but now I'm tied to that guitar and microphone again. We might whip that out again in the future because that that worked really well. Yeah. Yeah. I also think it's interesting that you brought up the fact that the riff for one of the songs was, you know, something that you wrote forever ago and that's something that I have always thought about as far as like creative, creative endeavors and such is that a lot of people will write things and be like, oh, this is nothing and kind of scrap it or whatever. And I feel like a lot of the time, you know, you just have to wait for the right moment. And then, you know, you've got something that you're able to kind of pull out of your back pocket as like, you know, I never knew what to do with this. But finally, it's the missing puzzle piece that just makes sense. Yeah, I had it as Jack Whiteriff in my, in my laptop sense forever and, you know, I always know I want to do something with it, but, you know, yeah, I feel like, I mean, just so elaborate on that, like, just point in general, you know, like, those are always sometimes the riffs that are like, you just, I don't know what to do with it. I don't know what to do with it. But I know there's something here, you know, and sometimes it's always about, you know, just the right place and time and the right situation where it's like, you know what? This riff makes perfect sense right here with this group with, you know, all these factors. So, you know, I think that's awesome that, you know, those riffs live on and you have that story to kind of tell about it. I was going to say, like, and I can't speak for everyone, but like, in personal experience, you don't forget those riffs either, like, like, even if you you don't record 'em. And like, I'll learn songs and forget how to play 'em all the time just 'cause I don't practice them or whatever. But like those riffs will just always be in your head. - Yeah. I mean, there's something to be said about a melody that is rememorable. - Yeah. - Yeah, so many successful songs, you know, it just feels like butter listening to it. It's just so smooth and I think not to say that that's what waste my time is to an horn, but it's catchy. You know, so it sticks with you. I mean, I think National Anthem by Radiohead is a very similar thing. Like, I've heard stories time in York wrote that baseline when he was like, quite young. Yeah, interesting stuff. - Yeah. And so Matt, so you got involved on the production side of things. I don't know exactly how long ago, but you have obviously been involved for a little while. Kai also did a feature on the new Times New Roman album as well. So did that kind of come out of the fact that you guys were already kind of working closely together on some other things and you just wanted to do something else together or what's kind of, what's kind of the story there? Because there is a little bit of crossover between these two bands at this point. - Yeah, for sure. So I've kind of been, I guess, involved in probably the past couple of months. I wanna say maybe two or three. - Yeah, Kai initially approached me and was just like, hey, we've got these songs that we're working on. I'm ready for them to see the world. And I just see if you'd be interested in kind of just helping push this process along. - Sure. - But kind of backing up to that Kai's feature on our song actually happened quite a while ago. - Oh, really? - So Toad and Times New Roman, our first ever show was played with Toad. And so they've always kind of been, you know, one of those bands that we've created that mutual relationship and respect for. - Sure. - You know, regardless of the genre, you know, we're always there to support each other. And I think Kai heard the one song and was like, yeah, this would be sick right here. If I just, can I wrap on this? Like there's a little breakdown part. I wanna use tracks and he's like, I have something that I think would fit. And Kai came to the studio one time or I actually probably before that, I think you hopped on to do it live first. - Yeah. - You do live a few times first before ever. - Yeah, so the first couple of times he did it, everyone was like, yo, who was that? That was so sick. Like you guys got to put that on the record or like the final song's like, okay, obviously. So yeah, you know, fast forward a little bit. Kai eventually kind of, you know, came over to our spot, recorded it, tracked it. And we just, you know, everybody in the band loved it. You know, it just, it came out spectacular. And I think, after that point, you know, kind of, or Kai had kind of seen, you know, you know, this other group of people that were creating music and stuff. And I think maybe that was probably the threshold at least for me, it was like, oh, you know, like, creating music with your friends is sweet, you know. So it's like, regardless, yeah, I'm in this band on whatever, like, I've got these projects, but ultimately, like, we're just here to create. That's what we love to do. So I think, you know, Kai stepping in and saying, hey, like, I got this for your song. And then eventually that probably led to, you know, you saying, hey, well, we've got these songs. Maybe like, I want to see where your head's with it. So, and I don't want to speak for Kai, but I think that's kind of how I feel, like, that kind of conversation, maybe, start to kind of developing. So, yeah, that's pretty much exactly it. I mean, I actually think Zach was the one who asked me, who's like, dude, I think it'd be cool to wrap on this. I was like, yeah, I'm down, man. Well, actually, first, I don't even think he knew I could wrap it. And I actually think he was kind of taking a back when I was like, dude, I can wrap on it. He was at that loving touch show when you spit bars. And it was like, what the heck? This boy is just going to start wrapping right now. Who does he think he is? Eminem? What the fuck is that? Yeah. And I remember doing one particular show with you guys. And it was like a hardcore venue, like a house venue. Like, they definitely had more punky hardcore bandits. Yeah. I was the only one not in blast. I was wearing a DCFC hat and like, gym shorts. And I was like, oh, man, it's going to be weird when I first get up there. But then by the end, it had hit it. It had won everybody over. That was just-- it was just so fun. That's how Fred Ders used to dress. Now that you mentioned it, it was very friendly. Finally, his inner thread was super flexible. But yeah, in terms of getting him involved in the production aspect is just things-- we needed somebody to help out finishing production. And from my experience with that, and hearing the other times in your own albums, which the mixing is just so crisp, if he was down, it wasn't a second thought, you know? So. Yeah. Nice. Yeah, I think that it's really interesting having-- showing off the merch here. You got to give that the-- The van a luxury-- It's a luxury. Yeah. Yeah. [LAUGHTER] But I think that there's also something to be said for somebody who specializes production-wise, maybe in a different genre or a different style, kind of putting their stamp on the type of stuff that you guys do, because it does kind of make it stand out a little bit. It still feels the same in a way to old-toed stuff. But also, there's a little bit of a different energy to it as well, which is interesting to me. Well, I appreciate you noticing that, because I feel like Simon and I have had those thoughts. It's definitely still toed, but it's new. We used to have saxophone in the band. I mean, that's gone now. But I feel like there's still that energy. I don't know what do you think. Same idea, more or less, but growing. Yeah. I mean, I can't speak for your own songwriting process, but I remember when I started, I had very limited understanding of music in general. I mean, I still do, to be honest. I kind of just write songs off vibes. Just-- yeah, just kind of wing it. Yeah, I'm lucky. I have pretty good pitch, so when I come up with something in my head, I can figure it out on the bass. But I don't actually know any theory or anything like that. So is the bass the instrument that you would say that you feel like the most comfortable with outside of your voice? OK. Right on my right. Any song is like the bass riff first. And I think if you go back and listen to Cosmic and the Kitchen very bass-centric songs, those were songs that were Simon's brainchild children, primarily. You start to notice that same with, like, pick up the phone, which will be the last song-- well, last song we're finishing up on the album. Yeah. You know, similar idea. But if you listen to those songs, you will also notice that the bass riff stays the same the exacts the entire song. Oh, each one is one, like, eight-second riff I came up with. One bass lift and then just keeps going over and over and over. So, like, these new songs that say are more dynamic, just more-- I have more understanding and I'm able to communicate with others in the band that, like, hey, maybe the song should change pace here or, like, go in this direction. It doesn't just have to be repetitive and, you know, as simple, I guess. Sure. But simplicity isn't bad. I do really love a good, simple song you can get hypnotized by. Yeah, I think that there's something about that, too, where, like, you know, sometimes things will get a little, a little overcooked. Exactly. You know, and sometimes you just need to know when to rain it back. So, like, it really is about finding that balance. You're just going to do what each song needs. Exactly. And looking for more or less is, you know, just go according to each song, yeah. Because I think, for me, creatively, a big part of what scratches my itches, expanding my musicianship, like, I've learned something new, let me put that into a song. But at the same time, I think, especially in, like, funk and blues, music, nice. Oh. I don't know. It's just the one. I didn't want it to get on the XLRs. Good move, good move. In that type of music, pocket and rhythms that are not complex, I feel like it's very important to the listener being able to relate to what is being played. And just being able to kind of groove to the able to feel it and being able to groove, I think, as an underrated, I think it's why people like Tom Petty wrote so many just classic songs on, you know, I feel like I think he called it complex simplicity where it's like, you know, it's witty, it's catchy, but it's not trying to do too much. So I didn't told is we try and do a little bit of that. One also ultimately, you know, funk is dance music, too. So you were talking about, you know, being able to move like progressive funk is definitely a cool thing. I like it a lot, but there's also something about just, you know, being able to get the dance flow and move in a little bit. Yeah. And I mean, at the end of the day, like, if we want to be artists professionally or, you know, like, I hate that I have to work a second job. I wish I could just be writing music all the time. And to get to that point, you got to make music that general audience is relate to, not just music theory nerds, you know, like, and that comes with simplicity because people just want to move their heads and dance. And I also like, I think I know a decent amount and I teach guitar lessons and do that, but I'm not like a, I'm not a Joe Satriani virtual. So like I, I couldn't write John Mara-esque music if I wanted to just because it's not where my brain is at. So I think there's a balance between me trying to expand my ability and playing and knowledge and also what I can write in this current moment and I just, you know, try to accept that and produce what I find to be enjoyable. and Groovy and, you know, it's also interesting that you bring that up with like, you know, kind of the modern age of musicianship and, you know, you were talking about, you know, wanting to be a professional musician at some point not having to work another job and such. And social media is often like an outlet that people will go to for that. But it's weird because the, you know, the type of stuff that tends to do well on social media is like the shreddy virtuoso type shit. But that's not the type of stuff that you're going to necessarily go back to time and time again. And, you know, listen to on loop for like three times because you're like, it's just so damn good. You know, that's the type of stuff that you're like, oh yeah, that's really cool and impressive, swipe. Like, you know, so there's something interesting about that too that I just thought of, you know. I think they're like different classifications of virality in terms of, like, musicians on social media because there are people who are hopping on a trend that's already existing, like those LeBron covers or whatever, like plenty of bands made covers about LeBron and posted videos and like those were very successful videos, millions of views. But those viewers are just swiping onto the next video. They're liking it and they're not checking out. They're not interacting with that band at all. Yeah. And so like, you get a lot of those shreddy virtuoso, like, really handsome people playing. And they've got people commenting and liking, but then you go to their monthly listeners and they don't have anyone interacting with their stuff. So I think like on social media as a band, the challenge is really like creating something that is unique, that like a presence that people have a reason to tune into beyond music. Like, there's got to be some sort of novel entertainment value. Yeah. And I think the most successful bands on social media has found that, like Volphek or I'm trying to think of like Vampire Weekend, just people who tap into that weird marketing. Volphek is a great example of that though because they really have their own vibe. Like, you see one of their videos and you know who it is. The minute you've got an old tape. Yeah, exactly. It's all the I'd stuff, you know? Yeah. Cords everywhere. Just the driest. The driest production you've ever listened to. But it's like the music still shines through. But that car compartmentalized virality that can phrase coming through. That compartmentalized virality, Simon's talking about. Like, there's definitely your guitar technician, your Tim Henson, who is their appeal is presenting proficiency in musicianship. Like beyond the guy who like does the. But then you've got the like, the like skit guy who's doing a, he's out talking to public people, holding up signs, like come dance with me and I'm gonna play my, you know? And then there's, you know, people who are trying to engage with emotions. So they show videos of, I don't know, a breakup and they just play their song in the background to try. So, you know, there's all these different ways to try and appease an algorithm. And I think a lot of people, you know, like no shame to them. That's what you got to do. But I think at a certain extent for me in this process, I needed to stop thinking about the content and just like live in the moment and make the music enjoy the time. I get to play and rehearse and do this insane thing that we get to do with each other. You know, I still want as many people to see as possible, but that's, I think at the end of the day, that's not what it's about. No, I would agree with that. And I think when we're not recording an album, it'll definitely be easier to have a little focus on that aspect of the band. But yeah, it's, we've definitely been less active on social media since we started this whole project. And I think it's interesting too, just having talked to other other people who, you know, also do kind of the social media game. And for trying to promote music, I also think that it's interesting how there is actually, like a lot of people think like, oh, it needs to be, you know, studio quality, you know, whatever. But there's actually like a much larger market as far as turnover for just like live, live videos with just like the camera audio. And I think that the thing behind it, as far as I can tell, is that you hear something and you go, oh, that's kind of cool, but you're not able to listen to it and just know that that's what the song sounds like. So you have to do the extra step to go onto whatever streaming service or whatever you use to listen to music and look it up. And that's your look to actually having it, you know, transfer over to real listeners. It's an opt-in process. Exactly. Yeah. I've found a ton of bands like guys that are like, you know, touring level, but not like super famous because they followed me on Instagram when they came to Detroit. And then they unfollow you when they leave, but it's just like, they see me and then you go check out their band and they have no idea who you are. It's just all they just saw Detroit nearby. Or they're just like, oh, you like this band. They just look at all the followers. There was a little while where I literally would do that like every time I would drop it up. It did for a little while, but I was also like, this is also kind of lame. I never unfollowed anybody. So like if you look at like the Fresh Finds Instagram account, I'm following tons and tons. Oh, they're also following this band that I talked about. And so I'm just going to follow you know, whatever. I think in the social media age, there's nothing wrong. Like with exploring those things that you've been told via the number of marketing music people work and like, you know, they are trends in and of themselves. The algorithm changes daily. Like what is successful now is not what was successful in 2020. And I mean, it's to nobody's fault to try and do those things to get followers, you know, but I mean, it does feel a little disingenuous to like follow. I'm following the second. I also say like successful. There are plenty of successful social media campaigns that do just follow the algorithm or whatever trends are right now. And those genuinely work. They get people numbers. They like help in every aspect. But I feel like the ones that resonate with you and the ones that like, I guess, stand the test of time are the ones that genuinely don't follow any trend and present to you something completely new like. Yeah. Yeah. The best thing I can think of is like, I love the group odd future. Oh, classic. Yeah. I found out about them because of Loiter Squad, which is like one of the weirdest shows I've ever seen in my life. And I think like if they hadn't done Loiter Squad, they wouldn't have stuck with me as much if that makes sense. For sure. Yeah. That's so interesting because I knew of them prior to Loiter Squad. Loiter Squad was just like a cherry on top. But yeah, that's, that's awesome. I don't know. I always think that this is an interesting conversation because it is something that in the modern landscape, like everybody kind of has to deal with. And we all have, you know, our different perspectives on it. Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely interesting because it's like at the end of the day, like, we just want to make music. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We don't care about that. It comes so, like, you know, like so foreign, you know, it's like, I know how to play the guitar, but I don't know how to tell people I've played the guitar, you know? Yeah. That aspect of it not alone is just like, it's so like, yeah, I don't know, just a whole new beast that's like just, you know, like there's nothing to tackle. There's no shortage of amazing musicians and creative musicians. Yeah. Nobody just don't. Nobody is Instagram. Yeah. Well, I mean, it reminds me of something that I've been seeing over the past couple of months, which is this dude who has like a whole keyboard rig and he walks around New York City and just gets random people to like wrap on his beats that he makes on the slide. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he is, and also just like random people on the street, you know? And it's like, it really is, you know, kind of, you know, showing this, you know, independent DIY scene that I personally am so passionate about. Really, it shows you that, you know, some of the most talented people that you will ever hear are stuck working a nine to five day job because they just don't know how to advertise themselves or, you know, whatever. I also don't want to bitch too much about it because we are at a time where you have the opportunity to market yourself. Oh, 100%. Any normal person can, it's just really difficult. And it's always been difficult. It's been difficult to get on the radio before social, you know. But I do think like, like, what if I could just walk into a studio of Pam 25 bucks and they'd be like, yeah, what could you on the radio like Johnny Cash? It's your money. Well, that's the thing about like the DIY aspect of it is like, yeah, like, I now have to play multiple roles. Like, I feel like, you know, at some point it was just like, yeah, like, I show up to a studio, I got some songs that's recorded. Like, let's ship it, you know? You have other people that were, you know, behind the scenes, you know, running that side thing, but yeah, just like a lot more, just information is like, oh, - Okay, well, you almost have to calculate the music aspect of it. It's like, how is this gonna work if we do this? Is this gonna see the light of day if we do this? You almost have to take calculated steps, but it's completely independent from the music, which is like, that's the caveat, I guess, or the spot that I think a lot of bands kinda just see the frustration, you know? - It is funny to think that there are millions and millions of people who are fans of bands, not because of the music, because something else is going on. - Yeah, it's kind of funny. You know, going off of what you were just saying, though, I do wanna give you a second to shout out everything that you've been doing. Are you taking on any new clients or gigs or anything with your production work right now that you might wanna shout out? - Yeah, well, so I'm in another band called Times New Roman. We're kind of like a pumpkin hardcore project. And I really kind of want to, you know, learn the process of making an album. So, you know, I did, you know, I did some, you know, educational, like, you know, stuff. I, you know, want to seek down that rabbit hole of learning the production process from start to finish. And I really wanna start by, you know, I wanna see my music see the light of day in the way I vision it, you know? - Yeah. - But I also wanted to have, like, you know, that parallel quality to, like, okay, well, I'm listening to my favorite band on the radio, like, I want my music to stand up to that. So that's kind of what started this whole, like, thing. And after getting the Times New Roman album out, which just kind of came out in the past two months, or a month ago, actually. - Yeah. - But March 28th, so yeah, you know, a little over a month ago, but not quite, it feels like forever ago. 'Cause we started it, you know, a year or so ago. - Oh, that's also another weird thing with the internet, it's just how fast people move on. - Seriously, yeah. - Seriously, yeah. - It's like, you know, a month feels like, practically a year in internet time, absolutely. - But yeah, no, so after that, like, that was my number one priority. It's like, I just wanna understand the process. I want this album for my group to be, you know, the best I can possibly make it be. You know, and with the knowledge I have now, and the experience I have now, you know. - There's always gonna be a one-if, and what could you do better? But, you know, at the time of day, it's like, I did the best I can, and I'm proud of what I made, you know. - For sure. - And all of us, you know, and that's not, you know. But, so now that that's out, I've, you know, Kai's giving me this opportunity to kind of sit with, you know, them and start looking at other things. So, I just kind of have opened the doors to clients and stuff like that. Like, I'm kind of slowly starting to work into, you know, wanting to do this more, like, as a regular thing. And, you know, obviously, like, as a musician and someone who just is so passionate about this stuff, like, it's been a dream of mine since I was a kid to, you know, play Rockstar, just be in the music industry, right? So, you know, now that I've, like, kind of done it for myself, and I'm happy with it. And now that I'm starting to branch out and, like, do it for other groups, it's like, you know what? Like, yeah, like, I do think this is just so fun. And, like, it's just so much, like, there's so much passion and just, like, help people create their visions, you know? So, like, you know, talking with Kai, I'm like, hey, how do you hear this song, like, in your head? Like, I want to make sure I capture, like, your vision, the best I can, and, like, you know, brunting everything off, like, Kai and Simon, to be like, give me your notes, I want your feedback, I want to hear how you hear this. So, I can best represent that for you guys. So, that's kind of been my philosophy as of late. And, yeah, I'm definitely starting to, the doors are now open, the floodgates are open. So, well, he is also, after, as soon as the total one is done, is going to be producing, well, mixing and mastering my solo EP project, which is an acoustic, you know, singer, songwriter type deal. Breaking news, breaking news. So, that's a four-song little track. He'll be, he'll be helping with that as well. So, you know, pan to, pan to make sure shit, like that would be. You can't go wrong. That is the man, really knows the stuff. Yeah, and the fun thing about this too is, like, yeah. So, like, times to Roman was like my group, you know, like a song show, I should say, but like, you know, that was our project, and I'm heavily involved with, like, my vision of the song. So, then when I'm looking at, like, the tow tracks, you know, I can take that whole element out of the mix. You know, it's like, oh, well, like, I didn't write this song. I, like, I'm not as emotionally attached to it, 'cause I didn't create it, you know, but I'm emotionally attached for you guys. Yes. And I want this to be like, you know, your vision. So, that's another interesting thing that I, I very rarely get to talk about, 'cause I don't often have producers who weren't part of the songwriting process. Oh, boy, the sets are starting to fall apart. Stop it. She's gone. But I don't often have people who produce the project, who also weren't part of, like, the songwriting process on, on the podcast. And it really is interesting how many hurdles you go over when you're just, when you're just mixing your own music. Because you, you know, whether it's your voice or your guitar or whatever, you're like, oh, this is something that I fucked up. And so I want to bury it. Yeah. Whereas, like, if you are listening to somebody else and you hear, like, oh, there's like a little, a little flub or something like that, you're like, that adds character. I actually want to emphasize that a little bit. And there's a really weird duality to that side of music production, to me. Well, yeah, I'm just getting that other fresh set of years, man. 100%, yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, like, there's definitely stuff that, like, I hyper-fixated, I was like, this one little vocal trill, like, is driving me insane. Guarantee you, nobody knew that existed. They hear the song, they're like, I don't even know. Like, but yeah, like, looking at somebody else's project, like, I'm just like, no, dude, it sounds good. Like, let's, let's, yeah, let's enhance this. Let's emphasize it, you know, like, I get to take myself out of the, well, I know I like, oh, this line, like, we battled over, you know, or we argued over, like, this line or something like that. Like, there's, like, such a, like, separation to it where it's, I can focus on the song and what my, like, mine goes to when I hear it. Like, oh, I hear the way, like, okay, this groove's like, okay, it should be a little bit more, you know, spicy or just kind of, like, viby or like, oh, the guitars are a little bit more aggressive. Well, let's push it, you know, let's make the track scream a little bit, you know, let's make it kind of so, like, that's what it all is, it's just like, it's enhancing the song to the best of your ability and making the song come to like, it's best form. You know, sometimes the song speaks for itself, so. - And being able to not get quite so in your head about it when it's not your, your baby. - A hundred percent. - Also helps a ton, because like, like I said, I've also, you know, done some mixing work for some other people and it really is funny how often people are like, yeah, I'm not so sure about this, not so sure about that. And you listen to it, you're like, this is sick. - Yeah. - Like, you've just been listening to it too much, you just hate it because you've been listening to it nonstop for five months. - Well, at what point from a producer side of things? So question for you, man, man. Do you tag your reputation upon the mix? Like, at a certain point, I mean, it can't just solely be, it's their project, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. Or do you not really have that side of, maybe that's me just thinking with ego, like, so, like, this is what is better than what they're asking for, you know? - So this is something that I find really interesting. Personally, for me, if I'm mixing somebody's music, I love, you know, people will send like reference tracks, like, oh, I want it to sound like this band, that band, the other band. Something that I personally do is I will do an initial mix without listening to that reference track just so that I can find what I think the song sounds like. And then if they want to emphasize something that I wasn't really thinking of, then sure, we'll listen to, you know, the reference tracks and things like that. But personally, I want to listen to just the tracks themselves and almost let the music lead me to where the song feels like it wants to be, if that makes sense. - Yeah, makes sense, very interesting. - Yeah, no, and I'd definitely, same way, like, I usually ask, like, hey, is there a vibe or a song that, like, relates to kind of what you're trying to capture here? And I got, like, you just said, Ryan, like, yeah, let the song speak for itself. I usually do, kind of, like, my initial pass through of, like, here's where my head's at when I hear the song. And then, at some point, before, like, for the past couple of songs, for example, like, up until, like, the last point where I'm ready to send you, like, revision one, then I'll go ahead and reference and be like, okay, now, like, am I in the right ballpark where they want to take the song initially, or am I completely off? You know, just go back. - Yeah, I just go back. - So, but yeah, no, it is cool, 'cause, like, yeah, no, I like how you brought up, like, yeah, like, ego aside thing. I think, like, you know, ultimately, like, when you're producing music for other people, it's their artwork. And they are the ones who should be able to say, like, yes, I'm proud of this, you know? And like, I think, as producers, like, it's our role to best represent that, you know? You can say, well, you know what? But I don't think you're right, man. Like I think the guitar should, you know, be louder. And, you know, I think the vocals should have distortion on it and like all these crazy effects. But it's like, that's not what the artist intended it. So like, yeah, you might think that. And you know what, we can create our own mix. But like at the end of the day, your like role is to serve the artist's vision in their song. And I keep it sound like a broken record with vision, but like, no, yeah, that's, I think that's like, really important to me. - Yeah. - 'Cause I capture that lesson. I love that. - Another aspect of that is I think, from the inside, a lot of artists and bands are really bad at saying what kind of, what bands they sound like. Because you can be like, oh, I'm influenced by Tom Petty and The Beatles and, you know, whatever else. But then you don't sound anything like that. And so you think like, oh, these are the references that I need to send because this is what I was listening to. This is what I was drawing inspiration from. But your end result is nowhere near what those artists are. And I think that that's another interesting aspect of that is from an outside perspective, people who didn't have a part in the actual creative writing process can often bring, you know, another perspective that's kind of like, you know, actually, it sounds more like, you know, expand, why band, it sounds more like smashing pumpkins than, you know, The Beatles. But you know, whatever, well, it's funny. You say bring that up because I have personally experienced and basically since I started making music, every single person telling me I sound like the Red Hot Chili Peppers. (laughing) And I think it's because my vocals just are like a little midwestern, nasally, just like Anthony Kies. And they are one of my biggest, you know, inspirations, the like funk rock aspects. But so I've slowly but surely like, attempted to try and like steer away. - Oh, interesting. - Try and do things that don't make people go, they're just a chili peppers rip off, you know? 'Cause I mean, early on, my first band, Hotel Archrim, we probably covered three chili pepper songs at night. (laughing) All the other songs were songs that might as well have been chili pepper songs, you know? But you know, so that's where the funk rock blues becomes just like a stock phrase for me, because, toad, you could put us an alternative, you could put us in class, you know? - Well, and that's one of the things that I also really like about Toad is the fact that you guys are willing to, kind of, you know, play with genre a little bit, do something that's a little bit more grungy, something that's a little bit more bluesy. I forget the name of the song, but one of the songs, actually, I think it was, treat me right, is just a straight-up toad. - Oh, it's so much better. - And it's like, it's a great tune, and it doesn't need to be anything more than that, but you know, there are other times where it is, you know, you kind of put this, that, the other thing, in. - And we do have a straight-to-all-bar blues song on this upcoming night, so. (laughing) You know? - Yeah. - Hell yeah. - We'll do it for real. - We'll write 'em down. - It's also like first song of the night, it just busts out of blues. It'll instantly get everyone in the crowd, moving their feet, instant. And then you've got 'em. - Well, because everybody knows the form. - Yeah, okay. - It's kind of, you know, kind of almost like a jam session, if you think about it a little bit, because like in a jam session, you're gonna start out with a basic, you know, some sort of standard or something that everybody's gonna know, just to get comfortable. And it's kind of almost the same thing with that, where even if you are, even if it's a different song, 12 more blues, everybody knows the form. They know, all right, the turnaround's coming up. We know, you know, whatever. And it's a good way to help people loosen up, which is really interesting. - And it's tied back to our discussion earlier about like, you gotta get the audience to happen. If they can't feel that pocket. - Yeah. - You've lost 'em. - You've lost 'em, so. - Yeah. - All right, so kind of before we move on to the next part of the episode here, because we are getting very deep into discussion, which I love, this always happens on the in-person episodes. It always, you know, devolves, but, you know, in a great way. But the debut, debut self-titled LP Toad comes out on June 20th, is that correct? - That is correct. - I was ready to correct you on the 21st, 'cause that's one of the release shows. - And then I was gonna bring up, then the 21st is the album release show, which is at the Loving Touch. And we're gonna have this beautiful sign right here behind the stage, the entire time. - Gotta love see. (laughing) Is there anything else that you guys specifically wanna bring up before we move on to the next part of the episode? - Well, other great local acts that we have a lot of respect for Sancho and Strictly Fine will be joining us for the fantastic bands. I think probably by the time this episode is out, the fourth single out to see, it actually comes on next Friday, May 9th, that will be out for everyone to hear. And there are, you know, four singles to this album. So plenty, half the album is already out. You can digest that. Yeah, anything else, Simon, I think, yeah. Shout out my mom for buying this thing. (laughing) - Independent musicians always be. (laughing) - All right, so moving on to the next part of the episode, we're gonna share some new music, some fresh finds, if you will. - Hey, before we go, can I pee? - Never! - Yeah, can we make sure that a camera, my phone, isn't out of us? - I was gonna say, I was actually about to check on that too, make sure that we're still recording on everything. - Several bad puns later. - So, my first song, let me pull up my notes because (laughing) but my first song is actually gonna be from a kind of post hardcore slash emo type band from Oklahoma. And they have been getting a bit of traction over the last couple of years, kind of in the emo Twitter sphere that I'm largely a part of in my online presence. It's a band called King Pink. And they just released their EP "Promises" on May 2nd. And this was a single from that EP, the song is called "Letting Go." (upbeat music) ♪ All I wanted was for you to see me ♪ ♪ Why I do what I do ♪ ♪ I never meant to hurt you ♪ ♪ Breaking your way, don't want things to be ♪ ♪ It's easy to play in myself ♪ ♪ As part of the problem ♪ ♪ It fits them just as you ♪ ♪ Baby, I forgot you ♪ ♪ Now I live out of my back door ♪ ♪ And I'm okay with that burn out ♪ ♪ There are signs I wish I could go back ♪ ♪ It changed myself somehow ♪ ♪ There is to be a grip ♪ ♪ What do you say on time? ♪ ♪ So tired of all things that I need ♪ ♪ Someone please make it stand ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Letting go, letting go ♪ ♪ How hard I can get through ♪ ♪ That's what scares me ♪ ♪ Letting go, letting go ♪ ♪ But I can get through ♪ ♪ That scares me ♪ (upbeat music) - Ah, letting go by King Pink. - Dude, I love how like, yeah, that's just like, straight up my wheelhouse of like the Midwest emo like vibe. I love how those songs always just sound like they were recording in a basement, but they're so tight and punchy and they still sound so good. - Exactly, yeah, that's what draws me to that type of stuff as well is the fact that like, you know, you can hear some of the, some of the production things that you're like, oh, this is clearly not like, you know, multi-million dollar studios, recording but at the same time that part of the charm of it you know yeah that's like the aesthetic of that genre you know it's it's like Iberian capsule it's like the DIY like aesthetic part but I mean yeah sounds awesome so those rolling drums and cymbal hits that that was that was my favorite part these are a bit and I really want to see you live at some point there like like I said they're from Oklahoma I think that they're starting to get a little bit more traction because they you know are it's one of those things I don't want to say that they're like you know hitching their trailer to somebody else you know but also like Oklahoma Oklahoma Oklahoma City DIY emo bands are really having a moment right now and it's really interesting interesting like I I don't know if either of you are familiar if any of you are familiar with like Ben Quad oh yeah okay hell yeah so like like Ben Quad are really kind of like spearheading that but there's another band called Red Sun that are kind of like okay yeah they're like they're a little brother band basically and these guys are like very much part of that scene as well and I feel like you know you have one band that starts to you know punch a bump their weight level a little bit and you know if they're smart they start to bring up the bands that are around them and that's kind of how I've found King Pink and I just can't wait to see whatever is next for them yeah right huh yeah that was that was awesome so definitely gonna be checking them out more yeah I also just like the kind of spaceier kind of like bridge section was super fun from like the riffier more you know verse from like the first half I thought that it was a cool switch up from being a bit punchier and riffier in the beginning to being a little bit more spacey later yeah it's definitely got like more of that math rock element yeah exactly they also released a really cool project last year called timelines my favorite song off of that is actually the first the opening track it's called resin and I think the funniest thing about it is to me because they've always kind of built themselves as like you know post hardcore emo but the vocal melody is so like early 2000s butt rock in the best way and I love it I love butt rock I mean anybody who knows me knows that I love I have you know a love for that kind of music I put out a compilation album last year of a couple of different bands doing like you know butt rock radio rock songs and so like that was great yeah yeah yeah so thanks for sharing right yeah but of course I guess moving on we're just gonna go we were talking about this earlier we're going house left to house right so that that's gonna give a sign in the next tune here okay so this is a band that I played with in my other band called birds I view and birds I view is like more of a grunge band so we look to play with you know a little like louder rougher bands and I thought a little bit more raucous yeah this group they're called general 11 they're from a downriver in Michigan like around flat rock area and they are busy bees they play every it feels like they play every weekend I see them posting about a show highly recommend you check them out general 11 their lead singer Eric super funny guy and talked to him for a while he was just genuinely a really funny guy so if you can secure a conversation with Eric I recommend it but yeah there's somewhere between they they call themselves alternative but they're a little stronger than alternative in my opinion so there's somewhere between grunge and alt but yeah this is an older song it's called the hunt yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah oh man that is so groovy I love it that was that was sick I love me some hypnotic rock just a bass that really keeps the song moving I mean that that bass tone was the first thing that I noticed when I you know when it first came on I was just immediately like yeah this bass tone is so killer dude I feel like right when that bass came in it's like I'm standing in a completely empty bar there's smoke and the dude is just on say like just like yep here we are smoke them there should ever be just a sticky floor full of beer you know like and you are vibing yeah I wish it wasn't Sunday fine one of those bars and those guys are pretty young I think some of them were like younger than me I'm only like 22 so really those guys were great and that's interesting to know too because like that sound like as the songs playing we're all kind of like yeah that sounds like you know it came out of the 70s it's like very like old black Sabbath like kind of like you know it's just like it does feel like it's an older sound but I love that like resurgence because it's like yeah I think into truth are listening and to try specifically there's a lot of that happening you know it stems to the garage rock and I mean a lot of people think like Jack White but even farther back MC5 they're still like Detroit Cobras Detroit Cobras electric bug you know this band I saw recently and I caught the bug but yeah I mean and I talked to the singer afterwards too and I think it was just like because the PA was maxed out and it was a DIY there was like a distortion effect on his vocals but I was like dude that was so sweet I think sugar tradition just went on tour with Detroit Cobras or something like that wow sugar tea baby we've talked about them on the podcast in a couple of years but they're also very good same veins yeah doing really well I it is really interesting I mean and you know I kind of talked about this a little bit but Detroit is the one that I've you know obviously been more first-hand with but it's very interesting how different cities have in their DNA just something about like everybody really loves to pull on this type of sound because you know we were talking about Black Sabbath but we were also talking a little bit about like uh you know Iggy Pop and the Studios and kind of like some more of that like uh like you know garage rock like proto punk type of stuff and I think it is just really interesting seeing and hearing how uh the more things change the more they stay the same in a way yeah you know everybody kind of has these influences and they develop but also at the same time you can trace that new line yeah for sure well I think it as a Detroit based band who is not necessarily like I love Jack White I love the white stripes um but I'm not trying to be the white stripes I don't make that type of music but waste my time that's like this is a jack this is something Jack White I was thinking Lazar I must have been listening to Lazar at all a lot at the time because that's kind of the energy. Great rock bands. But that's also like when I'm doing research about bands that are from other places I always want to know where they're from because I find it really interesting to listen to like okay this is what's happening in this area but what's the tradition that they're pulling from and it because I mean you know even you know modern Seattle bands Seattle does has so much crazy you know cool like uh like alternative pop music and like that kind of stuff but it's also like very much rooted in the grunge of you know 30 35 years ago and I think that it's really cool just seeing how generations will pull off of you know the the previous the previous generation and kind of do their own thing with it but also keep that same DNA. Well and I think with Detroit specifically you have four or five six genres of which Detroit has been a Goliath in oh yeah at one point or another you've got techno you've got hip hop you've got motown you've got soul you've got garage rock and as a place that is not super dense in terms of musical supply at the moment you yeah you I think we're very fortunate and lucky to experience a lot of unique styles that blend a lot of that so Detroit's a great place if you're looking for music like any Saturn I just got just got a walk around him Tramik you know downtown Detroit there's some awesome happening there's also something I think that's very interesting about just like the Detroit scene in general which is the um it's very big and very small at the same time because everyone everyone knows everyone but it's also very spread out so be a dick because like because like the Detroit scene also go goes all the way out to like Pontiac and Ann Arbor which is you know I'd say Ann Arbor you know 20 20 minutes to almost an hour drive away depending on whether you know do you know Detroit by Detroit I'm not familiar so it's a yearly event that it was that it just happened like last weekend loving touch where they recruit Detroit bands to play bands with our famous with Detroit ties oh really oh I'm not familiar with that so I never heard of that before I saw Verne oh what's the last one Verno J no Verne god damn it sorry Verne I forget I'll ask to host the new way open my oh that Verne he's an incredible musician hopefully in guitar okay everything so incredible but I saw him post a video of them playing it and they were doing a Wolfpack song oh I honestly was like I forgot through and I was honestly like I was like that's Wolfpack at first I like I woke up out of some drunken stupor watching my stories and I was like damn Wolfpack it but it was just so tight so yeah you know yeah and that's I learned about Detroit by Detroit so cool I mean you could you could even say that chili peppers have a yeah chip Smith went to my life and Anthony Kitas was lived most of his adolescence in Grand Rapids you know who else went to my high school this is more of a niche band you know rob canter rob zombie no I'm trying to I'm trying to think of his band have you ever seen the running for your life from Shilobus oh yeah that guy was a nice girl he's drum major and over high school that's a legendary way they were in a big band with like marvelous marvels marvels on the cover of the telly hall oh yeah they formed the NR I saw I saw the matter well it's all one of the guys that's not a ranch handker was like the big marvels marvels marvels yeah I think it'll still be around but that's so interesting what a fantastic danger this is the type of shit that only happens when you're a couple beers deep in your reporting in person I know I love it so you want to say Ryan what a some of the more fun musical experience I've had via the fresh finds discussions so I appreciate what you do oh but of course but of course you ever see yeah sorry I've ever seen channel zero it's like um when Kanye wave back in the day when he was like a young and sure was like not famous there was a local broadcast channel uh in Chicago called channel zero like someone just bought a public broadcast and they would film every night like just rappers underground uh day like oh that's cool just freestyle and and like telling giving them their bios to the public broadcast and it started just like with 10 people watching every month but eventually it became like Chicago's MTV and um yeah I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go on my my little speech here a little bit but honestly like that's the type of stuff not that specifically because I had never heard of it but that's the type of stuff that I am so inspired by when doing this is all of the local you know local music promotion and music uh you know publication stuff that really just talks to the bands that you know the mainstream won't talk to it like we were talking on the last episode that I just finished editing which is hopefully gonna come out this Tuesday god I hope it does uh but final cut has been fighting me recently so uh you know we're we're kind of uh kind of in a duel right now but we were talking about uh a local that I believe is based out of Chicago or maybe southern Illinois but um you know a local music magazine that has been going for a little over a year now and I think that it's cool seeing a resurgence of the local music scene magazine podcasts you know broadcast whatever stuff that's just covering the stuff that the mainstream won't cover and I love that so much what sorry don't you got it well I think a lot of people are realizing in this you know dystopian social media world that we live in that if you want to create stuff like that yeah be a part of the scene you have to mesh with your localities and um nobody makes it to the big time I mean I guess maybe you can save the anepotism but all of that big time major label originates from the underground from the hunt like yeah were we were talking Kanye on a fucking 2am you know like you just gotta do it exactly that's and uh it's a beautiful thing when a community can flourish from that yes sir yeah well yeah so what I was gonna say like pretty much yeah piggybacking off that like uh I think just like it's so just glamour ties like the you know stardom and the like mainstream like me it almost feels so just not real you know and so it's like people who are just like you know trying to do this in their own right it's just like you know it feels so unattainable because of how much just like scrutiny and attention everybody is always constantly under but like you know at the end of the day like everybody talk shit about like that whole like the aspect of like you know like yeah the music industry and this that the other thing but it's like you know that's why it's like it's really important that like we find each other that we all are working towards this common goal of like yeah like we we love music and we love passionate people and we love this whole you know DIY scene because it's like at the end of the day like you know what everybody just wants to feel like they can express themselves you know and just like get that out to the world and it's like yeah like I'm sure everybody has aspirations of like dream and big and like you know I want to be playing Max and Square Garden but yeah like you said Ryan like you have to start from some kind of underground scene and like if you never get that like relationship with your scene and like you know what's what's gonna or what's uh that's what's preventing you from like you know getting into the world good thing you know for you yeah exactly and this is uh this is a topic of discussion that has come up a lot on uh one of my other favorite DIY music podcast shout out to five at the door My buddy, Chris, he, total homie, based in Nashville, but he kind of is like, you know, so many people talk about kind of the DIY scene and it almost feels like it's evolved recently in a very good way where it's, instead of do it yourself, let's do it together. - Yeah, in a, you know, very community oriented way. And I think that that's really what we've all kind of been missing over the last 10, 10 years or so. If I could give some unsolicited advice to anyone who's listening. - Beautiful. - And into music. I feel as though I might not be paying my bills, but I've made it because I have musical community. I have people who are excited to hear my music and I have people who I'm excited to hear their music. And if you find yourself in that camp, whether you're making money or not, enjoy the time you got because that's what making it is. - Yeah, it's just like, it's so important to have that support system and like, you know what, we could be playing completely different styles of music, but it's like, I respect what you do at the root of it. And that's what's so important, you know, like. - Hell yeah. - Absolutely. - I know this is supposed to be our listening session. - Well, it's fun. We're, I love it. It is your turn to, it is your turn, Kai, so. - Yeah, let's do, turn over to the floor to you. - Let's do Maxwell Rinkon. - Kai met recently through the open mic circuits. Ghost light primarily. - All right. - You recently opened for Marcus King. - Oh, no way. - Yeah, so he's incredibly talented. Great voice. (upbeat music) ♪ Standing on the edge of my pride ♪ ♪ So many dreams and old, precious wasted dives ♪ ♪ I've waited all this time ♪ ♪ And finally it's mine ♪ ♪ Will I make a break in this life ♪ ♪ Before going caution it ♪ ♪ Throwing that to the wind ♪ ♪ Painting my cells with cheap lead paints ♪ ♪ A moment is all it takes ♪ ♪ Will I catch that wind or will ♪ ♪ I just fade away ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Will it be the one today? ♪ ♪ Will I run or brave? ♪ ♪ Whatever's in my way? ♪ ♪ Telling my soul, my dear ♪ ♪ Telling it all the way ♪ ♪ Before that precious past of time ♪ ♪ I've waited all this time ♪ ♪ And finally it's mine ♪ ♪ I just fade away ♪ ♪ Telling it all the way ♪ ♪ Before that precious past of time ♪ ♪ I've waited all this time ♪ ♪ And finally it's mine ♪ ♪ I just fade away ♪ ♪ Telling it all the way ♪ ♪ Before that precious past of time ♪ ♪ I've waited all this time ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I've waited for something to change my mind ♪ ♪ My mind ♪ ♪ They say people change ♪ ♪ Of same every time ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ I'm sick of all this wasted time ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Because I need you ♪ ♪ You don't occupy my mind ♪ ♪ Because I need you ♪ ♪ I will not be feeling I try ♪ ♪ Because I need you ♪ ♪ I won't turn my back on this in my mind ♪ ♪ Because I need you ♪ ♪ You will not find my whole life ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ - Did that acoustic just sound so crisp? - This man took me on a journey. - He did, and I loved it. - I think it took us all on a journey. - Yeah, we, yeah. - Yeah, I met him through the open mic circuit. Go slight, and he lives in Detroit currently. He is based in Columbus, originally. I believe. - Oh, really? - Went to Ohio State. - Boo. (laughing) - Yeah, great car. - Sorry, my own personal bias isn't showing. - It's a good school. It's like the fourth or fifth worst in the Big Ten. - We're all from Michigan, so that makes sense. - Yeah, yeah. - No, I have no actual disdain again. It's fun to hate on him, but, you know. But yeah, he's an incredibly talented guy, and I dig the sound. And, yeah. - So, when he plays at the open mic, is it like solo acoustic? - I've not seen him with his band, but he does play with the band. - Oh, he's got both. - Okay, cool. - He does play with the band. I don't know if around this area they do as much as the band, because I think they're all in Columbus. - Okay, so the band's still based in Columbus. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - But he's here in Detroit still. - Yeah, but, oh, interest. - I think he did, but he goes, I mean, he travels around. - I, Columbus isn't that far. - No, it's not. - But he, it had so far sound Detroit. - Oh, God. - Sure. - Yeah. - I mean, he obviously opened for Marcus King. I think he just won an Instagram battle of the bands. And, just like, got to open for Marcus King. I did see that he was just him and his acoustic guitar for that. - Yeah, great sound. - Somebody told me one of my relatives, just hearing Marcus King's name, one of my relatives told me that I look like Marcus King one time. - Oh, I love it. - I thought it was funny. - Toss on a cowboy hat and some of those glasses. - Yeah, right. - But yeah, Marcus King, modern day guitar hero. - I think him and Billy Strings got to get, they get a lot of love, but I think they need more love. - Billy is doing it right. - Billy is just doing it right. - So my cousin's husband is first cousins with Billy Strings. - What? - So, how I respect the group. - Yeah, like, heard from a friend. - Exactly, exactly. - Like from a friend. - He was like, dude, my cousin's in this band. Like, you may have heard of them. So, there's like, oh, no shit, dude. - Yeah, they just sell out all venues around the world. - Yeah, like, no big deal. - My great aunt's sister married Sonny after he divorced Cher. - No. - Wow. - And then he died in a ski accident. - So now we're just playing five degrees with Kevin Bacon. - My sister went to interlock and Kevin Bacon went to interlock. - Oh, he went to interlock. - Yeah, but that's my degree. - Is that the Kevin Bacon composter? - Like in Michigan? - Yeah, that's crazy. - That's crazy. - But getting back, getting back on track to the sun, that was fun danger. But I feel afraid to send it some point. But I love how that grows. Like, it starts out kind of like the solo acoustic thing. And I'm like, all right, cool. And then there's that great build into that one big. - What? - That bend there. - Yeah. - It's such a fantastic build into like this kind of like, this bigger sonic world, this bigger sonic identity. - That's how I write my music. Like, I'd love to do the sad acoustic and then build to this big grandiose. - Yeah. - I very much steal it from Phoebe Bridgers. I got a little print on the cover there. - Sure. - Oh, yeah. - Are you familiar with Benson Boone? - I was gonna say, yeah. - Oh, good. - All right. - Do it easy. - Yeah. - Dude, it does sound like that, damn. - Dude, but yeah, I like-- - Can't say I'm a Benson Boone fan. - Oh, okay. - I love that the whole song. It was just like, all right, all right. We're here, we're here. We're vibing, you know? And then it seemed like it was on as close. And then I was like, ha, ha, guess what? Suck us. - There's more. - There's more. - I'm calling the next five minutes. - And then it came back, like, twice as strong. Like, you know, just like, bad at it. The distorted gut heart has come in. Like, it's just that huge outro, you know? I think that's sick. It's almost like two separate songs. - Yeah. - And so, you know? It really, like, that section, I love one artist do that, because like, that section of the song makes you appreciate the beginning half that much more, because it's like, oh, I know it's coming. But like, it gives-- - I'll build something. - It's own right to that first, like, sad acoustic part. Like, it's like, okay, well, there's a different emotion in this. And then it just, boom, explodes at the end, you know? Like-- - And ultimately, I think that that's what I'm looking for in a lot of music is kind of, um, Jimmy Page always talked about it as, like, the light and shade. And you need to-- to find a balance between the two. And that has always kind of seeped into my philosophy of how good music is made is kind of having the heavier stuff mixed with kind of the lighter stuff at the same time. - Dynamics, I feel like there's a lot of bands that can struggle with using intensity and volume as an emotional tool. And you're heavy all the time that nothing sounds heavy. You need something to contrast. - Same if you're just like fingerplucking really quietly. - You need to influx and get something, even if it's just like slightly more intensity, I think like a lot of Bob Dylan songs. He's not ripping it on the chorus, but the passion that he infuses can really make. - Yeah, the lyrics really-- - The chorus feels so much heavier. - And the themes and the points he's making, it's beyond his writing at that point. - I also, speaking of we were talking about local influences and stuff like that, being a kind of Detroit based artist, question market at the end of that statement. But I was also vocally getting a little bit of like Bob Seeger influence too. Which I thought was cool, kind of the more mellow side of Bob Seekers. - I mean, the road into Pynom is literally Bob Seeger. - Yeah, I think he counts as well. He's sold out the palace like 40 straight. He's, he's our whisperer's prince to the palace. - Yeah, yeah. - He's our Bruce Springsteen, he's a Detroit. - He's a Detroit guy. - Yeah, yeah, he was at the draft. (laughing) - Yeah, he's still alive. - My brother and sister-in-law are huge Seeger fans. And I like, I know Seeger, but I don't like intimately know him and they're always like, we gotta just listen to every song he's ever done. - Yeah, well, I mean, if you wanna intimately know him, you gotta buy him a drink first. - Oh shit. (laughing) - Well, Bob, if you watch him. - If you watch him. - Balls in your core. - Robert Stanton. - It does. I'll sing you a Ditty. All right, what's next? - Moving on, Matt, you've got one here. - All right, so yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna plug my band real quick. - Shameless self-promotion. - Yeah, you know, when, when in Rome, right? - Yeah. (laughing) - Yeah, my group is called Times the Roman. We're kind of like a skate pong, pop pong, hardcore, melodic hardcore, you know, anything in that. - I guess vain, but yeah, this was the, I don't know if this was the first song we wrote for the album, it was definitely one of them. But it is the first real track off of our latest album called Beneath the Breaking Waves. Which, fantastic record. I will say it from a non-biased source. - Thank you, thank you. - Yeah, we've been working on this album for like, it seems like the past year, you know, all, just all four of us, like that's just it, you know, guitar, guitar, bass, and drums. And we just, we wanted to keep it true to us. We wanted to keep it true to everyone's like, kind of, draws an inspiration. So this to me personally is like, my kind of like, cliff notes of like, the sound of Times New Roman. You know, it's got elements of skate pong, it's got elements of pop pong, it's got gang vocals, it's got, you know, just the more hardcore kind of stuff. But yeah, this song is called Fate. And yeah, looks like we guys here. (upbeat music) ♪ I've been broken, beat up, but down ♪ ♪ But it's still surrounding fate ♪ ♪ I can't listen to you, no doubt in a place ♪ ♪ I can't escape letting go of all my hope ♪ ♪ Now I'm finishing before my face ♪ ♪ Is it a ghost or things fall down ♪ ♪ The passion took its place ♪ ♪ I can't predict that I broke out of this cage ♪ ♪ I thought I saw chasing tales without a face ♪ ♪ I can't ever be stuck inside this game ♪ ♪ I thought you knew ♪ ♪ Smaller, brighter than the plane ♪ ♪ You're just a fake, who fucks me fake ♪ ♪ You've been with me, you fucking stink ♪ ♪ Whoa, whoa, whoa ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ Whoa, oh, whoa, whoa ♪ ♪ What's great and no, with the sick and sad today ♪ ♪ In the colds, in the air ♪ ♪ Poison's falling through your veins ♪ ♪ And shame, blame me ♪ ♪ With the devil, they are based ♪ ♪ What's great and no, with the sick and sad today ♪ ♪ Are you wrong to write the taste? ♪ ♪ I've been broken, beat up, let down ♪ ♪ Five is still surrounding me ♪ ♪ I can't listen to you melt down anymore ♪ ♪ I can't be late ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) ♪ You're just a fake, who fucks me fake ♪ ♪ You've been with me, you fucking stink ♪ - And now I'm just, I was about to, you know, crowd kill, to Simon over here, just in my chair, listening to that. (laughing) Also, 12-point as a debut project for a band called Times New Roman is just so creative and fantastically perfect. - I have beef with you about that, actually, because we recorded the last toad episode. And I think it was Kai specifically played a song off of 12-point, and it's impossible to Google. Think about, Zerg Engine Optimus 12-point Times New Roman. I couldn't find shit about that on Google. We used to say, yes, yeah, the default, fucks me. (laughing) - I never, until this moment, I never thought of one. It makes total sense. - I was literally like working on the edit, and I always just kind of like go to like Google images or whatever to try and find like the highest quality version of like the album art when I'm making my graphics. And I'm like, I can't find anything, because it's literally all about like, how to write essays. (laughing) - It's also ironic. - No, that's the next one. (laughing) - But it's not Times New Roman. (laughing) - That is true. - Somebody else pointed that to, I posted something on Twitter about it, kind of like bitching about it, and somebody's like, it's also really funny that the font on the cover is not Times New Roman. - Yeah, it does talk about an Oxford camel. (laughing) - Yeah, we're not actually a font. We're a hardcore band, that's all. (laughing) - It's actually the Times of the New Roman. - And it's the Times of New Roman. - Oh, interesting. We're just being efficient about it. - We should probably start listening to more songs if we're gonna get home by. (laughing) - I will say though, I love the gang vocals. I love the kind of like switch up about halfway through. - The breakdowns are so tight. - Yeah, the breakdown going into the guitar solo is so much fun. - Just this entire project, like very common to it. - Very, very, very much appreciated. - It's also kind of funny, I was looking through and you know how like on streaming services you have the ability to like, heart or like or whatever different songs off of albums. It's kind of funny because I like the whole album, but the only song that I have liked specifically is the interlude trap door. - Oh my gosh. (laughing) - Yeah, that's, dude, we want to create some like, That one. Ethan actually brought to us. You know, he's like really into like the modular sense stuff. - Soot. - Yeah, yeah, and it's sick 'cause like he was just like dude, like this would be sick as like a segue interlude thing. And we're like, yeah, let's like, let's get dirty with it. Let's make it super traffic, you know, like so. Yeah, Ethan brought that to the table on the way, like it flows into the next song. It's kind of just like, you know, like, all right, like my anticipation, you know, like, but yeah, then I don't, that's one also specifically is like that dictates the B side. Like we very clearly wanted to be like, we thought about this album as like, it's a record, you know, there's an A side, there's a B side. Like we were very intentional about like that ideology behind the project. - Well, that's interesting 'cause I don't think we've thought about it as A side B side is more of like a long story. But I think at the same time you, we did like, the first half is happy in the second half is. - Yeah, we do. So it's still kind of A side B side, but it's more of like, see, but interesting, it just tells the story. - Kind of in general, though, I do think that like a, you know, album pacing is a little bit of a lost art in the, in the streaming era, and so I do appreciate the fact that like you kind of thought about that. - I also personally really love when hardcore and punk bands take like aspects from like another genre, and kind of like, you know, play off of that. I don't know if you're familiar with the Detroit hardcore band Bad Beat. - No. - But a fantastic band, they released their album LP 2024. Very creative, very creative title, but they had a song that was just called Bad Beat Dub. - Oh my goodness. - And it was like kind of like a dub reggae thing that had like some hardcore influences to it, and it was super cool. So like, I always love, and it was another little like, you know, 30, 45 second, like interlude type of deal. So I always find that type of stuff really interesting personally. - Yeah, you can definitely like, for me like growing up, I've always like, oh, I listen to the album. Like I hit track one and I hit play, you know, and like, to me that's how my brain is just always interpreted music. Like, oh, like, yeah, you get the singles, right? But like, you know, I've always been like, okay, well, this is track five after this album, you know? And so like, that's how I personally like, always perceived music. But like, you can definitely tell like, in the way, like again, no shame to like the modernity of like, how music is going, but like, it's very single focus. Like, you have to stay relevant. So it's like, single every two months, or you know, every whatever it is. - So it's just like. - That waterfall released right here. - Exactly, we're talking about it. - Yeah, it's the only reason we did it. (laughing) Like, one of my favorite bands, it is probably my favorite. A radio, it's my favorite, but second is Vampire Weekend and they've done five albums. And they have, as an indie band, achieved levels that I don't think many have, you know, with three number one songs. And it's an album centric band, you know? - Just got that statistic in your back pocket, huh? (laughing) - I literally am thinking about, yeah, it's just my favorite fucking band. (laughing) - I'm just kidding, you shit. - Now, see me posting a man knowledge on the vampire we can write the board, but yeah, it's an album centric band and I think we would do right for society if we ventured back in it. I'm trying to do a thousand new albums, at least majority new to me. - Okay. - And I'm just asking people for recommendations. And I'm about 35 in and it's so cool, man. I'm listening to music in a different way and it's people who are sending me stuff that they're really passionate about. So most of the time it's, I very rarely get one where I'm like, this is bad. I'm usually like, I see why this was important to this person and I'm learning so much new stuff and I'm starting to listen to music in a way I probably haven't since before I had Spotify. And you know, it's like, oh, why must I guys? Shoot me your album recommendations. I'm only at like 200, and I need a thousand, so. - I'll talk to you a little bit more after this. - Local artists are welcome. - Local, small-time artists are welcome. So yeah. - Hell yeah. - So kind of moving up my next song. And again, kind of the reason why I love doing episodes with Toad is that you guys always have very broad tastes in music and so I can kind of bring some stuff that's outside of my general ballpark and you guys, I know that you guys will appreciate it. - Oh, 100%. - So this is kind of like an alt country artist. I have to give a huge shout out to my friend Sasha who lives out in Phoenix for sending this to me. She just, she sent it to me and she just went, this is Ryan Corp and I went, hell yeah. All right, so this is an artist called Joshua Quimbee. He's based out of Nashville, Tennessee. And I think it's one of those things. - Are you familiar with the idea that like once you're aware of something, you start seeing it everywhere? - Yeah, it's like the self-manifestation. - Yeah, so this is an artist I'd never heard of. But then as soon as I heard this song, I started seeing their ads on like TikTok and Instagram everywhere. - It's shaboozy, isn't it? - No, no, no. This is Joshua Quimbee and this song is "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" and "Dank Weed" the beautiful hat. ♪ "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" ♪ ♪ "And "Dank Weed" ♪ ♪ Well, I'm a travel man, I spend my days on the open road ♪ ♪ Singing and slinging all these countries from all around ♪ ♪ It ain't an easy life, but it's a life so boring ♪ ♪ It's a life of "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" ♪ ♪ "And "Dank Weed" ♪ ♪ "Turbo pulls me over in a one horse town" ♪ ♪ I roll the hammer and I'm met with a big old friend ♪ ♪ For the better not be baggy apart I sing ♪ ♪ That's my life of "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee" ♪ ♪ "Good Donuts" and "Dank Weed" ♪ ♪ "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" ♪ ♪ "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" ♪ ♪ "Speeding Tickets, Hot Coffee, Good Donuts" ♪ - I'm looking to it and I like to break down with a good coffee for a matter of time. - Yeah, very like Rootsie, like it felt just like. - I'm not gonna wait for Simon, you just get a bunch of. - Oh, I'm just gonna say we're like the cool thing, man. - Oh yeah! - Oh yeah! - That would be magnificent. - Dude, actually that would be fantastic. - Actually, yeah, let's make sure that happens. - Oh yeah! - Oh yeah! - Thank you. - Can we give you some space? - We kind of just busted into the conversation, you know. But that's kind of how this goes. I feel like, you know, everybody wants to wait until the end of the song. - Yeah, actually share their remarks, which is. - I also think, like, as I've been listening to these albums. - Yeah. - If you don't get your thought down, the second it comes out. - It's going on. -. because you're getting so much stimulus throughout listening to an hour-long album. - Yeah, you got to. - Especially lyrics for me if it catches my attention. I have to pause and write it down. Otherwise, it's lost in the ethos. - So are you specifically trying to do, like, some journaling stuff, like with the album? - Well, listen to those. - For those who don't know, I am a business analyst, statistician. So, Dan and nerd, I love creating mixed bass. Four eyes. I don't wear glasses. - No, I thought that was directed in me. - Well, I think all four of us wear glasses. So I was like, "No, but it was part." I was in our musical rut. I was basically listening to Vampire Weekend and Radiohead every day for the past year. - And people said, "Are you okay?" - Yeah, yeah. - But now, as the answer is no. - And as a songwriter, you know, I do glean a lot of inspiration for music and other musicians. And so I just sat down and I did see someone on Instagram doing the same thing. a lot of likes. So I do gotta say I saw it from her a little bit, but yeah, no, I just I went to Instagram and was like, Hey, I'm trying to hear new music, send me your recommendations and the amount of people who I've reconnected with who are just excited to share me what they like is it's kind of crazy. Yeah, so that was the primary focus, but at the same time I'm tracking a lot of dad. I'm tracking the artist. I'm tracking the year. I'm tracking the number of songs, the minutes, length, the gender and generation of whoever recommended it to me. I'm going to do a full blown that analysis when I'm done. I'm looking forward to seeing that actually. That sounds cool. And I do plan to do 10 videos one for each 100 songs and I'll break down top five, bottom five and what the what the general statistics were, you know, I can do anything like deep progression analysis, but it'll be it'll be interesting. All right. But yeah, man, this this saw like it's kind of funny. I've mentioned this several times on different episodes of the podcast, but like I have a very deep appreciation for like bluegrass type of music. It was something that there's a bluegrass festival up in Michigan's upper peninsula called the high-water music festival out in Marquette. And that kind of like gave me like an appreciation for like bluegrass and like kind of alternative country that's not the country that you would hear on the radio most of the time. And I think that that's where I get the appreciation for stuff like this, where it is kind of, you know, has that like 12 bar blues kind of, you know, form to it, but is also, you know, very unique and fresh at the same time. Yeah. And that's the like style of country too that like like, yeah, not to I guess just like go on the pedestal, but like that's what feels authentic. You know, like when it's like, oh, it feels rootsy. It feels like you're driving down a dirt road. It doesn't feel like it's, you know, tried to like, I guess be built up or portrayed in a way where they want to showcase that, but then they go on a yacht and a dirt private jet. Yeah, like the next day, like post 9/11 propaganda. Yeah. It's like, I'm driving down a dirt road because this is what I can afford. And I'm just trying to get to my cottage, like, you know, like, Tyler Childers, Sturgial Simpson, yes, with them. Bingo. Beautiful. My love. Oh, I added. I have killed so many times. Everybody's like, never forget 9/11. I'm like, never forget what 9/11 did to country music. And never forget the incredible South Park episode that mocked that entire cultural happening. There's a Bo Burnham one on, like radio country too. That's pretty good. Fantastic. And I do just find it so funny, like, you know, there's so many disingenuous country artists that, you know, it's, it's trap music with a banjo and southern draw on it, you know. And I do appreciate the fact that, you know, you, the internet is kind of giving us a little bit of a, I don't know what, what a good word would be, but kind of like, you know, showcasing truly what, you know, good artists have to offer. And in the country, you know, country music vein, I've always said, I don't think people who say they hate country music, hate country music. Right. I think that people who say they hate country music hate manufactured Nashville radio friendly, like, let's make a top number one head and call it country. Exactly. And so anytime I come across a good fucking country band that is going to, you know, play real country music, I'm going to, I'm going to talk about that. 100%. I think that it's, you know, kind of a lost art in a way. And I really appreciate the artists that are doing it right. Well, just say a man country music is good music. It is like so many people are just so quick to blanket. I think toad in our blues essence has a lot of country influence. I love it. But it's, you know, I mean, people in Campbell. So, yeah, I fucking, I'm going to, we're going to do a Northern night's parody but it's like a serious parody about Northern, I fucking love that song. That song is so good. Anyway, that's my, that's my, that's my diet tribe. Yeah, I was going to say I could go on a whole fucking rant about this. But I feel like I've been ranty enough this episode that we don't necessarily eat or shit about cars. You know, that song? Yes. We featured on an episode about a year ago. And that guy's like big. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that song is so good. I'm going to cover that at the next open, my man. That shit is so good. Shout out to my, boys, Manner Gates from Columbus, Ohio for, uh, for deciding to feature that on an episode about a year ago. So, if when you're done with this episode, you're looking for more fresh fines, check out that episode. So, uh, as we're kind of moving on, what, what's our next tune here going to be? Oh, yeah, this is the one that's on band camp. Okay. Um, this is a group that I played with also with her. It's I view. I got to do it. I'm sorry. And they were, they were really cool because we a show. Yeah. We had a, we had a show lined up with another act and that morning, the act had to cancel on us. Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah. It was really tough. It was literally that morning. And we were playing, where were you playing? Um, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, my, oh, super strict about like you got to have an artist for this time and an artist for this time. Really? Yeah. Interesting. They're, they send you like a crazy email of just like, it must be done this way, this way, this way, in this way. And then you get there and there's no one there. So it's like, like, did I have to do any of this? I was going to say. Yeah. So funny. Some guy shows up at two a.m. He's like, how the show go? But, um, uh, this band, they're called dance pack. Um, I've seen them listed as the dance pack or just dance pack or, um, it's, it's just dance pack all word, all one word on bank hand. Or I've seen Isaac Burgess and the dance pack. Oh, but they're really just, they filled in on a day's notice and delivered an incredibly tight set, uh, very hypnotic. Um, people were comparing them to red hot chili peppers there. I remember, but more, more jammy, uh, essence to them. So just good vibes. Uh, highly, if you need a band and a pinch, highly recommend dance pack. Yeah. Don't play on 25 minutes. All right. And do damn well for real. (Music) You're a demanding girl, the way to keep the pills satisfied. I'll stand with me, won't keep me in the fire, and you'll probably die. And I know I can keep your eyes closed for a time. But I can't keep running for more, that's just the story of love and life. You can't be with me, I can't keep you and I can't help you. I can't keep running for more, that's just the story of love and life. (Music) Monday, Tuesdays again as your baby, why don't you put me in my places? ♪ Why don't we go back to your place, yes ♪ ♪ She's a drag now ♪ ♪ You know my baby's out of sight so ♪ ♪ Sometimes she sees you on the side, yes ♪ ♪ Sometimes she sees you on the side, yes ♪ - Oh, and we're going for round two. - Yeah, that was a good. - Yeah. - Dude, the groove was infectious. - Very groovy. - It was almost hypnotic in a way. Just that bass line just kind of went for most of the songs. - Do you really kind of dug it? - Do you know the neighborhood? - Yes. - They've got a song. So they weren't quite a front center, but it was like-- - Yeah. - He was like one of those guys. You see a New York City painted head to toe who does the like-- - Oh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the. - Still not out there. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - And the whole, it's a concept album about like one of those guys. - Oh, interesting. (laughing) - Show me that. - Yeah. But the song's called Devil's Advocate. And I think, and it starts out the same way. It's just very groovy and drum beat that kind of drives. Anyway, that's what it reminded me of. - Yeah. - That would be my song comp if I was giving it to my producer. - Yeah, the way that, the kind of like breakdown about halfway through was also really cool. I mean, you'll, you'll, I'll mention a breakdown just about any time that happens in a song because I just liked the way that it kind of like changes up the vibe a little bit. But like specifically in this one, like there was just something that I'm kind of like, all right, yeah, this is like, it's still groovy, but it was like just in a different way. - It makes me feel like how I imagine people in the 80s drove through nighttime Miami. - I was about to say like that. - I'm like, okay. - I just walked into a disco for a whole time. - I literally have a playlist called Driving at Night. - Yeah. - It's like that exact vibe. - Oh my goodness. - Yeah, dude, the groove really just like moved that track. Like it just like, you know, there was like always a step forward with it, you know, it's like the groove really just pushed everything through. And then like, yeah, the baseline on top was just like, there's so much movement, but like in the best possible way, you know, like I do, it'd be so cool to see that live. - It's cool. They really sound like that live too. They were definitely one of the more unique live acts. I've seen Indy Troy highly recommended. - To me, it honestly sounds like they'd be better live than they are in the studio. Because like, I mean, hearing like at the end, you know, you're starting to get the little like guitar solo elements and stuff like that. And if they are the types of musicians that I think they are based on hearing this song, then they're definitely going to jam on that and do kind of like extended, you know, instrumental jams and stuff like that. - I think that's kind of what the jam community has tapped into though. They give you a taste. - It is. - Yeah, it is. - They want you to come on. - They want you to, yeah. - Yeah, you listen to the album and you're like, okay, I kind of get the general form of the song. - They give you a motif that's catchy. - Yeah. - And then you go to see them live and then you really kind of get to sing into it. - Our song, the kitchen, the recorded version is like four minutes, but live, I think it's like seven minutes. - Oh yeah. - Yeah. - We very much do. There's a little jam band in tow. - For sure. - There was a friend of mine that like six months ago tried to get me into fish because he's really, really into fish. - Food is more like you got to be there. - And it was one of those things. - Oh yeah, recommend me a song off of like a bootleg album. And I like listening to it. I'm like, all right, this is cool. And it was like 15 minutes for like one song. And I dug it. But I'm also like, I feel like I need to be there. - 100%. - Well, I had a buddy take me a back to back nights of Goose. And I had heard of Goose, but I wasn't super good at Goose. - I am now a Goose super fan. Like honestly, I could not recommend them enough. They just had a new album come out two weeks ago. But honestly, I went to that show and I came home and was like, I need to reevaluate every priority in life. I was like, I have to play more music. Because they just felt so comfortable and good and create and expressing their musical gifts. - Yeah. - And I know that just comes from them playing night and night out. - Right. - But anyway, I divulged from the initial idea where the Jam Band community can be a little gatekeepery. - It was a little bit. - It's very popular for like fish fans and dead fans - Yeah. - To shit all over Goose fans. - Yeah. - Like fuck you. - But it's because they are infringing on their territory as the next great Jam Band. - Although. - Billy Strings is wildly accepted amongst those Jam Band fans too. So I don't get it. - I mean, I don't understand how you can like jam music and not like Goose because it's just. - The Goose is fantastic. Goose is fantastic. I just don't get it. - I do think the older generation does hold up on like visual aesthetics when it comes to their music and their musicians. And I don't think that matters nearly as much to us in the era of streaming. - Yeah, for sure. - Well, like I show up to that Goose show. It's very little expectations. That's why if somebody who thinks I'm not necessarily a layman when it comes to listening to music, and I left so unincredibly inspired that I just don't think it's weird to me that you could like jam music and not. Like stop saying you don't or shit is bad. Like you are just saying you don't do it. - Yeah. - Just saying you have an experience. - Yeah, that's fair. - I think as I've matured, that has kind of been my philosophy is I'm less, I'm slower to call things bad and more to kind of realize that it's just not made for me. - Not like a hundred percent. - But there's still value behind it. - Exactly. - That's how I feel about this is going to sound weird. K-pop. - Oh, 100%. - I do not find it for me. You know, I don't listen to it. - Yeah, sure. - But I was like on my Instagram the other day seeing K-pop routine and I was like, holy fuck, these guys are just performers. - Yeah, yeah. - They're cool or like. - Well, yeah, you, like think about that like aspects of it, it's like at the end of the day, like they're goals the same as mine. - Yeah. - You know, like so, like just because I resonate with their style, like it doesn't make it bad, I just can't resonate with it, which is fine. You know, to each and their own, you know? - Well, and that is the end goal of music. If you find a genre of music, despite what the zeitgeist may say about it, if it emotionally gets you to the place where you need to go, flap that shit up, that's what it's all about. - Yeah. - If it's Taylor Swift, if it's K-pop, it's GG Allen. I might warn you against GG Allen, but that, yeah. Music's all about emotion and too much. - That's neither here nor again. - Yeah. - So, if you like it, don't call it a guilty pleasure, just fuck it up. - Call the pleasure. - Yeah, precisely. I think that that's really something that I've kind of like grown to appreciate over time. It was like, yeah, and even going back to like the last song that I played, you know, I always, for a long time, was like, oh, country music is kind of my guilty pleasure. I grew up on it, and now I'm like, no, I just like the type of country music that I like, and that's the type that I like. I mean, I have no ill will towards anybody who does something that's kind of like, you know, in a style that I'm not a fan of. It's just, that's just not what I'm into. - Absolutely. All right, well, where are we at here? - You're up next. You're up next. You're up next. - Let's do strictly fine. Join and toad on our album release show, one of the tightest bands in the game. - Quite, please. - [Music] [Music] Until get on the green, get on the green, get on the green, get on the green. Get on the green, get on the green, get on the green, get on the green. Get on the green, get on the green, get on the green, get on the green, get on the green. Just so you know, these gun clubs made of human bones, you know it never, ever, ever, ever comes alone. It's your 12, I hate it all. It is under water, cause it's so much better than yours. Yes, I know you don't give a fuck, but you use your strategy, but I'm gonna live an era, but you'll never give up. Until! Until! Take a breath, don't swing so hard, take a breath. Get on the green, get on the green, get on the green. But the strong one, hitting the trees is for fun, the strong two. Swimming just to stay cool, the strong three, the five, the six, seven, eight, nine. At the beach, in the trees, hitting all the birds at the beach, no practice, no practice, swim. ♪ We're just for the reasons we can't bring you back ♪ That song was so good, it was like, it was funky but also, you know, like you said, very relatable to my golf experience. Yeah. What was the line? It on the beach in the trees? Yeah. That's every single time that I've ever, you know, tried to play golf. That has pretty much been an excellent experience. I'll also, sorry to cut you off. Just catchy as hell. I'm going to be stimming on the entire group. Yeah, I was going to say it just like, it had so much movement to it that you like couldn't help but just like, all right. What's up, you know. They were a band that I saw play. I forget who they were even opening for. Actually, no, they were opening for anybody. I just remembered that, just unlocked this in my brain. They were, it was their album release show for their live album in 2022. Strictly live volume one. Interestingly enough, an album release show for a live album. Kind of a funny deal. But I just went out to that one time because I had nothing else to do and, you know, and you know, longer houses within walking distance of now my old place, but they are just such a fun band that has so many amusing and also like terribly catchy tunes. Yeah. They're, they're from the musician ship standpoint, impressive, tight, unique. Yeah, one of my favorite local squad. So that's one of those groups I've admired from afar, excited to get them on the Toad album release show. Honestly, I was surprised that you hadn't played with them before because I always thought like when I listened to Toad that you guys were very much kind of in the same vein. Yep. Well, we're gonna put that there once and for all night. I also love how they kind of have like a comedic element to like their vocals as well. This one, you know, obviously being kind of about, you know, being bad at golf and that's like kind of a kind of a concept album. But, you know, they also, one of my favorite songs of theirs from when I was kind of paying attention to them a little bit more was Team House Shoes. Which is also a really fun one. Like they're wearing shoes and that. It was about just not wanting to go out on a Friday night. I'm gonna wear my house shoes instead. I forget the exact lyric, but basically just about not wanting to go out because I'm too tired from the week. I'd rather just sit on the couch and do nothing instead. Yeah. Underrated use. Well, my, my, maybe it's an overrated use of time, but at a certain times it's a great use of time. Also, I'm seeing, so that was a little while ago that they actually released this. Um, I realized now that I've not been keeping up on strictly fine because this was a 2023 release. November, so it was the end of 2023. It's only been like here and a half fish. Do you know if they're working on any new recorded material at this point or a large, or largely, uh, just playing live at this point? I don't. Well, they're, they're gonna play live with us. I guess I don't know much of. But Tiger Woods Jr. Jr., a concept album for the ages. Yeah. And I, like I said, I do think that that pairing is fantastic. Well, I appreciate that. I, I agree with you. All right. How many? We got two more. Yeah. We got three more. So we got, we got Matt's and then we got the two that you guys kind of chose collectively. All right. Yeah, so for this next one, this is a band that, um, again, the first ever Times New Roman show, uh, the bill was heat above towed Times New Roman. And, uh, when was this, by the way, this was probably two to three years ago. I want to say it was before our first trip to New York because Zach joined us for our first trip. Yeah, because of that show. Oh, okay. It was February 2023. Yeah. Yeah. Because it was so strong. Yeah. You remember like a maze they had power. Oh, yeah. It was showed up to that. And they like, it smelled like gasoline. It was just like an upstairs. It was like, there was like one lady that was like, yeah, we lost power. And I was like, well, how are we going to play? Like I, she was like, well, we got generators going. And I was like, what? I want to be whole like she's talking about her house. Yeah. And I was like, why are you saying that? I was like, how are you? Like, I'm a house. It's like, okay, congratulations. You know, we showed it a lot of people, but, um, but no, anyway, like, so we played with, um, I just remember like heat above took the stage. And I just like, remember watching them. And I was like, God damn, dude, these kids are rock stars. They like, they just had like the, just, the movements. They like, you could tell that they choreographies. They just had it. Like, I remember. I think the bassist's name is Jack. Like, and forgive me guys if that's not. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But he like, that is an iconic sounding. Right. It was worth remembering. He's jumping around. You know, he's doing the thing that's like, you know, why, why would anybody do this? But it's like, no, he's getting you up. And like, he's getting you dancing. Like, he's walking around in the crowd. Like, you know, like, moving around. Like, I was like, hell yeah. But, um, I know like, since that time, their lineup has kind of shifted a little. Okay. So now the, the at that time, and again, I think his name is Brady. It's Brady. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Brady was the drummer. Okay. Now he sings and plays guitar. Yeah. So Michael Davis was the guitarist. Yeah. Yeah. He was, he was really sick. Yeah. He stepped away and Jack plays the bass, but he plays it like he's like, if you're watching him, you would think he's soloing on a guitar. Yeah. Moves his body. It's so awesome. Yeah. Honestly though, there's something about that though, because like, there's so many. times. I don't know if you guys relate to this, but I have a feeling you will that like you go see a band and they're like, come on get a little closer to the stage. Come on, everybody get closer. And there's some bands that just have a magnetic energy. They're one of those bands. They don't have to say that. Everybody just instinctively gets closer to the stage. You know what I'm saying? It's just came out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like I was going to say like, I can definitely tell like they've like, you know, like, it seems like they've been kind of like finding their sound maybe with their new lineup. You know, they got a new drummer and like with Brady on the guitar and vocals. I don't know how much of an impact that has to like their songwriting style. But like, it seems like they're definitely like sitting down more into like their niche, you know, like, and yeah, it's like, it's just like good, like, feel good, alternative rock, you know, like, they vibe, they rock, like, they've got, you know, the punch behind it and they, yeah, they really just come forward. So yeah, this is their, their latest single called, Well, now. I'm in front, so I don't know if I can keep it. I'm never on and nothing's talking to my sleep, but I ain't no better than this. If you want to try listening or try listening back to you, you might just feel a mistake. Stop loving it and it's not letting it out. Don't let it all know what you think about. Just let it go, you're only letting it down. Just give it away, don't let it change. It's the same, same, give it up too hard for it anyway. No, I don't think there's a symphony of learning to love them, but I can know that it's easier to say than to say, I think I found the answer, but I just gotta try. I'm on and it circles in the dead of the night. Stop and all the leaves as they fall to the ground and be some back together when I'm coming around my and go, go, now, take it side, put it onto a talk to it with this side. And it feels like it enough to fetch us what you got through some time. Believe me, you'll be fine. Just say the same, give it up too hard for it anyway. [Music] Stop loving it and it's not letting it out. So let it all know what you think about. Dude, I love just, I mean, immediately out of the gate, I love the chord choice of this song. Like, it's not your very basic either a power chord or like a major minor. You were saying there's probably like a suspended second or something. Yeah, something like that. And I am a slot for a sus to chord. I cannot get enough of it. You and me both, man, it's just that. It's like, it's one note difference, but it's a hundred percent character difference. Like, it gives it that much more like, yeah, character to it. Like, you know, it's just like, we take the one for the one five chord progression and we just like add it a little bit more mood to it, you know. Just a little bit. I think the idea of dissonance within popular music, I think so few people understand that. When you implement that, the resolve is so. Exactly. Yeah. That's what it's all about. It's all about tension and release. They're all getting played like puppets by these people. Like, this is, this is how it, you know, this is how it plays. A little peek behind the curtain. Yeah, yeah. But no, dude, that song like, when I, when I heard that song came out, I was like, okay, like, this is a new, new little sound for he to buff. You know, they've always kind of had like the alternative like pop rock kind of thing. But like, it seemed like they like, this song just, they felt more confident maybe in their sound. Like, sure. And maybe I'm just grasp my straws here, but like, I don't know. It just like felt like it just came with so much more force, you know? Like, there's like a lot of edge like Brady's vocals. Like, dude, just perfectly, like, perfectly encapsulated. You might say the key is finally rising. But yeah, like, and I, I feel like I've only had the chance to see him once. And I feel like every other time, like, they've been around, like, stuff has been going on. But that's a band who I've seen has been grinding it out. Like, they are like making moves. And like, seriously, like, they deserve it. Like, they are working their asses off. And they, like, they're making the right steps because they, you know, you can tell they have the chops, you know? And that's, that's what it goes on. Are they based in the Detroit area? I think they're from a flat. Okay, so there are little ways out, but not super fun. Yeah, they did it like recent thing. I think they played the machine shop, like not too long ago. They played the machine shop a lot, but I think that was a big one for them. I think they might have headlined. Yeah, which is like, like, that, yeah, it's just sick, you know? Like, dude, you get the machine shop. It's like, oh, we actually played a gig at back to the bricks as a result of heat above. They couldn't, they played Thursday night. And they gave us the next two nights. And we got paid really well. And it was like right on there, right on their strip. And we just went out there and did, like, Johnny be good. Another crazy shit. Yeah, well, nice. Simon had that, that effect he always has when he gets out there, where some drunk 60-year-old lady is like, "You look like Jim Morrison." The whole ladies love him. "You sound like Jim Morrison." But yeah, heat above really embodies, at least from afar, it seems like they embody the lifestyle of really what it takes. You know, you record, you gig, you record, you gig, your book shows, you do the algorithm, you do what you can do with what you got. And that's where, you know, it feels like heat above doesn't leave an opportunity. No stone unturned. Yeah, I think that that's kind of a thing, especially when you're starting out, is you really can't just, you can't say no to a whole lot of stuff. You just, for a little while, you have to be a bit of a yes man, to really find your, you know, to find your audience, to find your people. And from what you're talking about, it sounds like that's, you know, very much kind of in their wheelhouse. That just makes me think of, like, paid-of-play shows. And like, how, I remember we used to feel the need, like, we had, we needed to play somewhere, right? So it was like, we'll take any opportunity. And that's when you end up in these, like, circumstances where venues are. - You have to pay us $200 if you want to, and you'll make money back, we swear, but like, you won't like. - You never did. - I actually think we met heat above at a paid-a-play show. So it might have been pretty early on in both of our trajectories. - Really? That's funny. - But I remember walking away from that show being like, there was us and there was heat above. - Yeah, and. - And seven other bands for somebody, is that? - Yeah. - And we all paid the venue $200 to play there. - Oh, geez. - Yeah, don't do paid-a-play show. - Some of you have us, but don't, especially if they're trying to get you to do multiple, uh, markets. - Yeah. - Defenders so. - That is a pyramid scheme. - Yeah. - But I will say, going back to like the song itself for, you know, a second here, uh, I also really love the guitar solo. We were kind of talking about that as we were listening to it too. 'Cause there's something very simple about it. It's not super flashy. If you posted it on Instagram, nobody, everybody would scroll past it. - Everybody should. - But in the middle of the song, where it sits, it's fantastic. There's a little bit of like a unison band thing, which is personally one of, I learned the song "Done With Drugs" by the dirty nail, who are a Canadian punk thing. - Okay, yeah, yeah. - But I learned that song, and that's where I discovered this unison band thing, which is basically where you play like an upside down power cord, and you bend with your, like, your ring finger up to the unison note. And they did this in this solo, and it was like kind of attuned, and then you just barely bring it right into it. - It was just awesome. - And it's like, it's so tasteful. - You got beautiful ears, man, that you couldn't, I mean, there must be some you've played a lot in your playing, but I would, yeah. - It's also the producer ear a little bit. - You just listen to a lot of stuff. You start to recognize patterns, you know? (laughing) - That's a goal every musician should do. - Time in your ears to be that good. - Time in tuning, baby. - Yeah, but no, like, yeah, to, like, yeah, right. And to your point, like, yeah, that, like, I think it's just done in such a way where like, it does feel just wrong, you know? And that's what I think I really like about this song too, is like, yeah, like, it is like, it's radio ready. It's ready to hit the charts, but like, it does have that raw organic feel. Like, it has that, you know, - It's a sweet spot. - That, that, you know, energy, you know? Like, that just like, all right, here we go. Like, we've got nothing against, it's us against the world, you know? - Yeah. - And I love that, like, I can, like, hear that stance in the song, you know? - I feel like that's the embodiment of that kind of DIY sound. - Absolutely. - We've been talking about for so long, but it really is, like, this is a song that is so good that if you listen to it on the radio, you would love it, but it's just not quite to that level yet. You're still kind of playing, you know, the dive bars and chill. - Don't get there one day. - You don't get there one hundred percent. - Well, I'll get there one day. - Hell yeah. So, I believe we have two more songs left. We kind of chose these as a group in a way. So, Simon, this is probably the good one for you to introduce yourself. - Yeah. So, if you don't know, I'm in another band called Birds Eye View. And we like to describe our sound as Power Slop with a little bit of edge. But I think most people-- - Power Slop is fantastic. - Most people who hear us would probably just say Grunge, but yeah, this is our first song ever written as well as released. We wrote this song like two years ago now before I was even in Toad, but Birds Eye View is definitely less organized than Toad. So, you know, we'll get shit out eventually. - That's a slot mask, that's a slot mask. - They got a lot of power, but they also got a lot of stuff. - This is our self titled song. It's called Birds Eye View, Birds Eye View, Birds Eye View, and All Caps, which makes it really difficult to find. - With Anon. - There is an Uber wise, yeah. - Just to be cool, which the Y is not a letter you typically do a lot. So, that's a different one. I'm not a linguist. (upbeat music) ♪ To be hard, to be hard ♪ ♪ When you go out of your own watchin' back ♪ ♪ That followin' close ♪ ♪ When you go out of your own watchin' back ♪ ♪ It's followin' slow ♪ ♪ I'm gettin' to know you ♪ ♪ And leave you in the lake ♪ ♪ I don't want you ♪ ♪ The beg me to stay ♪ ♪ I don't need you ♪ ♪ If you are some mind ♪ ♪ I'm fuckin' know you ♪ ♪ I'm stuck in your mind ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ To be hard, to be hard ♪ ♪ Stacking my try to sing a word ♪ ♪ Saxon has come to collect his dead ♪ ♪ Feel a chill call down your spine ♪ ♪ People in the streets all get in line ♪ ♪ That you go out of your own watchin' back ♪ ♪ It's followin' slow ♪ ♪ When you go out of your own watchin' back ♪ ♪ I'm followin' slow ♪ ♪ I'm gettin' to know you ♪ ♪ Leave you in the lake ♪ ♪ I don't want you ♪ ♪ To beg me to stay ♪ ♪ I don't need you ♪ ♪ If you are some mind ♪ ♪ I'm fuckin' know you ♪ ♪ I'm stuck in your mind ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Dude, that was, it's fun, it's powerful. - Yeah. - For sure. - I'd started that band to kind of get all the screams out, you know what I'm saying? (laughing) - I definitely get the grungy aspect of it. One of the things that immediately stuck out to me, like production-wise, listening to it, is the vocal layering. I like the number of doubles and stuff that you did, like a little bit of delay on it, just adding kind of some texture and some width to the vocal in a really interesting way. I like that a lot. I'm glad it comes out well, 'cause like when we're recording, that's gotta be my least favorite thing ever. It's like, especially on a song like that, where I'm screaming and just like being in the studio and hearing a voice in another room, be like, do it again. (laughing) - All right. - Not good enough. - Let me get some water. - Yeah. - You get some in your head doing that. Just like, I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy, you know? - Then you like, you mess it up 'cause you're overthinking it. - Yeah. - And then yeah, just, yeah. - And it turns out you always use the first one you did anyway. - Literally. (laughing) - Well, especially with the doubles too, you know, you're getting so many of them. And it's like the, maybe the first one is gonna be the main one that you're gonna use, but you're also gonna double all of these together. - Yeah, and so like, and I feel like from a producer's standpoint, you don't wanna tell the vocalists that you're just doing it for doubles. Because you want them to give just as much effort as they did for the main vocal. - Absolutely. - But at the same time, it really is like, no, we got it like six times, you know? I'm just getting extra, just a layer in it at this point. - I've always had to tell people like, let's just do one more, you know? - One more for safety. - Yeah, one more. That's, you know, 30 more takes. - I was always telling them you're not recording on the first day. - No, no, one hundred percent. You always record when you tell them that you're just trying to get levels. Because that means that they're not thinking that they're recording and you're gonna get the best. - You're gonna get, yes, it's the, it's the freest. You know, they're like, I got no stress. - That's what we in the bins call the red light syndrome. - You see the little red light and you get scared. - You guys getting prostitutes? (laughing) - No, that's the red light syndrome. - Yeah, well that's the same shit. - But no, some of that song like, dude, like it, yeah. Like it came out strong and I was like, oh, this is just grungy, grungy, grungy. And then like that point in the middle is just like breaks into like didn't get, like you just had that- - Yeah, a whole cross section like that. I thought it was just like so cool. Like I always look for like earworms. Like something that like either gets stuck in my ear or something that just like completely catches your interest a little bit. - Some of that catches me completely off guard. To me, like when I listen to things, I'm like like, okay, like yeah, I'm just like, you know, 'cause a lot of times you listen to music, like, oh, you're cleaning the house. So you're just like driving around, you know? - Yeah, I have something to pull your way. - There's something that's just like shitting. - Yeah, I really just hear that. And then literally I'm like, start this song. (laughing) - It's why you're listening to music in the first place. But again, it gets back to that boat, duh, duh, duh, ah, ah. Literally, anyone who's listening to that can go, yeah, I'm in it, feel it? - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - If I had to climax of every bird's I have you saw as show. - We found, ah, ah, ah, ah. - What the fuck can go? - No matter how dead the crowd is at a show, at that point in the show, we always have people moving up to the front for sure. - The acceleration too. - Excelorando, if you wanna talk in musical terms, but I'm not that smart, but I always love that too, because it's a way to like, especially when you do it gradually. You know, it's like, ooh, it's starting to get a little bit faster. And then by the time you get to the end of it, you're like, oh, it's double time. And everybody's just going fucking crazy. - I feel like like by the end of this is like, dude, I want to fucking two sets. I'm ready to throw it by the side. - That's what I'm saying. - Yeah. - Someone's gonna get hurt. (laughs) - No, I can't believe that this is the only tune that you guys have officially released so far. I can't wait to hear some more from it. - We recorded that one along with like four other songs. - Okay. - They're all just, yeah, waiting to-- - Do you know, is there a plan to put it out as like an EP or anything like that? Or is it kind of just like, as songs are finished, you will release it, type of deal. - So like I said, we're pretty disorganized. (laughs) There's a lot of really fun ideas, you know, being thrown around, but who knows what's actually going to stick to the wall. But I think the idea with Birds I View has always been, like, it's not, I guess it's not like a main band because it's like a side story that we're trying to tell if that makes sense. But yeah, I've always loved bands like the Gorillas or just like bands that are more of a concept than an actual band if that makes sense. - Okay. - Yeah, so the idea of Birds I View has always been that eventually it will evolve into more of like a story rather than just a musical outlet. - Like how Prince got a guy from his ex band to start like a rival band and they didn't actually hate each other. - Exactly. - That is exactly the idea that we took from Reli. - Maybe Todd should fucking hate Birds. (laughs) - Just to get rid of John, or so that's the idea. - But it's all a marketing story. - I mean, both of these bands, but I hate the other ones. - The story we've been working on is that Birds I View is in a fight with their record label, Shadow Records. And that's why currently no music has been released. - Oh. - Okay, all right. - Oh, you gotta do like the groundwork of like doing a little cryptic post here and there to like establish levels or that's it. - But this is the issue with modern day marketing where you ain't nobody give a fuck about that. - You gotta, that's why you gotta create something. - Well, you know, so you're now giving away your whole gimmick. - But it's so good. - It's so good. - I think the idea, like with Birds I View, is we just wanted to tell a story. - Yeah. - And then the music is kind of like how you advertise the story, right? - Yeah. - Like maybe someone will hear the song and then they find out the story we're telling, right? So it's like two separate artistic projects, but one's kind of just marketing for the other. - Well, yeah, and that's what's like really cool about like just art in general is like, do there's so many? Like you can go through some like our multiple mediums to tell a story, you know? And like you're saying like, oh, like we, like music is almost like not to say an actor thought, but it's like, that's, that was not the forefront of like the story we're trying to tell. Like music was like the soundtrack to the stuff. You know, like, yeah. So it's like. - The Lord. - It's just like, yeah. Like that's so cool. And like, because it's like, now at that point, it's like, all right, well, it's not just a band. It's not just an album. Oh, it's like, oh, there's a whole like story. Like, there's a whole arc, like a whole like artistic, you know, like me, like multi-medium, like you think, you know, like behind it. Which I like, dude, I always respected like bands that are able to like just, just see that extra step, you know? - And I also think no one has ever had commercial success without creating that world. - Without some sort of that for that, yeah. - Yeah, I think it's, it's required. Like the Beatles have their own characters that like the blue meanies and shit. - Yeah, in some way, like, Palm-A-Kartney died in the vagina app. - Yeah. - One of like, they're like co-heated in camera, you know? It's like, dude, they're whole. - I actually want to get really deep into that. - Yeah. - Yeah, like, their whole music is based on like, the story of the "Amory War." - It's a space opera. - Yeah. - It is exactly so much. - I mean, Zeppelin was basically a pseudo Lord of the Rings. You know? - Yeah, you have a point there. - Yeah. - There was definitely, yeah. - And Pink Floyd was Wizard of Oz. (all laughing) - Oh, we're the perfect number of beers, Dean. - Yeah, this is fantastic. - I can do a three more. - So what we're getting at Simon is, you guys are, I've been related or compared to Pink Floyd. What's that one? - The Beatles, like. - Oh, I am Prince. - Yeah, I am Prince. - Yeah, that sounds basically, yeah. - So no pressure. (all laughing) - All right, so moving on to the final episode of the evening, really gonna round this out on a high note. - Hell yeah. And you wanna introduce this guy? - Yeah, well, I will just say it's Ambrosia Blue. It's another peer of ours in the Detroit scene. Lucas Corona is the main, main driving force, at least to my knowledge. They've been around for a while. We've done a few shows with 'em. It's very, it's got a very nostalgic retro vibe. I very much am reminded of the Beatles. When I listen to them, very similar court progressions. - It's good stuff. I mean, they're working on a new shit. So they're in a new era. I'm excited to see what that looks like. So, but yeah, without further ado, it says I wanna fight about it. ♪ I wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ I wanna die right in ♪ ♪ My pride's in win ♪ ♪ And I really wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ I wanna shake that door ♪ ♪ Maybe steal something more ♪ ♪ And I really wanna think twice about it ♪ ♪ Give me five minutes to let go ♪ ♪ I'm never gonna see him again ♪ ♪ I wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ I wanna shake that door ♪ ♪ Maybe steal something more ♪ ♪ And I really wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ But where's that show where we tried ♪ ♪ So hard to pay the smile when you fight it ♪ ♪ Give me five minutes to let go ♪ ♪ I get right under his skin ♪ ♪ When the fans think it stops ♪ ♪ And you really wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ But it stops so wrong ♪ ♪ And you don't think twice about it ♪ ♪ Tell me something boy, where's that chance ♪ ♪ I wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ I wanna die right now ♪ ♪ I'm gonna have some fun ♪ ♪ And I really wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ But where's that show where we had our fun ♪ ♪ Yeah, you really don't think twice about it ♪ ♪ Give me five minutes to let go ♪ ♪ I'm never gonna see him again ♪ ♪ I wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ Gonna smash that gun ♪ ♪ Gonna hit and run ♪ ♪ And I really wanna fight about it ♪ ♪ But where's that show where we tried ♪ ♪ To run to pay the smile when you fight it ♪ ♪ Give me five minutes to let go ♪ ♪ But when the dancing stops and you really wanna fight about a star so rugged ♪ ♪ You don't think twice about it, tell me something boy, where's that chance? ♪ ♪ When the dancing stops and you really wanna fight about a star so rugged ♪ ♪ You don't think twice about it, tell me something boy, where's that chance? ♪ ♪ The mountains stand strong even when it's so rugged ♪ ♪ You don't think twice about it, tell me something boy, where's that chance? ♪ ♪ When the dancing stops and you really wanna fight about a star so rugged ♪ - Oh, hell yeah. - Yeah, very nostalgic vibes, good vibes. - I feel like maybe the reason I think that it reminds me of the Beatles, oh shit. - Because they do a cover of "Help" that is very much in the vein of that song. But I feel like the playful choruses and the chord progressions are Beatles-E. - Yeah. - Also, I guess I didn't get a lot of like, "Remoans." - Yeah, and now that you say that, I was like, "Dude, I immediately was like, "Remoans." And now you say, like, "Help." It's like, "Oh shit, dude." Yeah, that is very got the 50s rock and roll. - Yeah. - I got. - In those clubs in Liverpool. - Or in Twisted Shell. - Yeah, it's just been like, yeah, that movement is great. But it's combining different very nostalgic aspects until one song. - Yeah, that's awesome. - And they want to fight about what they're excited about. - They want to fight about it. - Whatever it is, yeah. - It might be the Lions. It might be the. - There's nobody who wants to fight about it more than Kyle. - Yeah, about it, regardless of the Lions. - I like music where I know that the artist is a cool person. - Yeah. - And knowing these guys personally, they're great people. - Yeah, great people. - It always adds just like a little, you know. - That's fresh finds all vibe, right? - Yeah. - Talk to music with good people. - Yeah. - Yeah, music with good people, baby. That's what I'm talking about. - Yeah, so I was just saying, I stumbled upon these guys. Me and a couple of buddies went out to. I don't know, we just went out to this bar to see some music. And these guys ended up being there. We'll be whole. We met up and had mutual connections and stuff. But these guys came out. They were a three-piece at the time. I'm not sure if they still are. But yeah, they were just like, here we are. Boom. And they just came out like super strong. Yeah, you could tell they just like had the drive, you know. I think it's like, yeah, like that aspect is like really fun to like. - We might want to take a pause. Elbe is about to walk in. - A few moments later. - All right, where are we at? Last song. - We want to fight about it. - Yeah, we want to fight about it. The kind of mentioning is the fact that this is like a very dry mix. Not a whole lot of reverb. You know, kind of dry vocals, dry guitars. Very much, you know, kind of sounds like you recorded it. And then you kind of leveled it in and called it today. And I think it's really funny. I saw an amazing tweet from Keegan who is the guitarist of the band Camp Trash. Who are now from Florida, but they were originally all from Great Lakes area a while back. But an amazing tweet that was like every decade is defined by either not enough reverb or too much reverb. And there has never been it in between. - Yeah, for sure. - Yeah. - Their production kind of reminds me of the Misfits pure listening. - Yeah, yeah. - That's a very good, that's a very good connection there. - And they're kind of more. - And they're kind of like cronopon type of deal. - Yeah, we're like in its own right. Like it, like it stands to test the time. Like it's good. Like, you know, but like you can tell it's like we're not going to overthink it. Like, dude, we're like a couple dudes. Like, let's fucking just record some guitars. - Let's do some music. - Yeah. - Like, drums. - I was crying on Saturday. - Yeah. - Dude, I've always respected that about like bands who like capture that like raw element. But still make it feel like, you know, user friendly. - Yeah. - Or like, you know, in a way to like be like, okay. - Approachable. - But yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, it's like, and I think honestly like I've been very impressed with like every band on these lists. Or the list that we've come up with like, everybody sounds good. Like there's like, yeah. - Yeah. - And I'm sure Ryan, you could probably attest to this. - Yeah. - As a producer, like, you only hear like, oh bad things that stick out. You know, it's like, if like something is good, like it's like, okay. - Like, cool. You know, like, it's either like, you hear things that are like, oh, that's really sick. Or you hear things that's like, oh, like that's really bothering me. - Yeah. - I have quite literally said that a song is finished mixing. When I can put it on while I'm doing the dishes and not go, ooh, I hate that. - Yeah. - Like, as soon as you can put it on any of the background and not pay attention to it. - Yeah. - That means that it's like ready to go. I think the nature of this whole process that you do with fresh finds, like, you bring on people who are musically inclined. - Yeah. - They do their research. And I think very rarely you're going to get somebody who is going to recommend you a song that hasn't spoken to them. - Yeah. - Whether, you know, and I think it goes through that filtration process where, you know, if you're having somebody on the show, they're probably worth something. And if there were something, what they think is brought, you know. - Exactly. - Like a plinko effect, like. - Finally, triple down economics actually, at least in music. - Non-capital investment. - But you are 100% right about that. I think that, you know, musically inclined people, even if it's not something that is necessarily up my alley. And that has happened a couple of times. But, you know, it's something where I can find the value in it somewhere. You know, whether it's like, oh, there's an interesting rhythmic thing or something. There's not a lot of these, not a lot of these times that have happened. But if you ever listen to an old episode, and I'm just like talking about, like, only one thing and never mentioning anything else about a song, that probably means it's a song that I wasn't super into. Because I'm like, this is the one thing that I was. - And the one thing I said that I think is very, you know. - Yeah, I, that's how it goes sometimes. - Exactly, kind of getting to the end of the episode. Because that was the last song we're starting to peter out a little bit. Is there anything else that you guys want to mention? One more time about Toad, about new music, about new shows. Anything, one more time, you have the floor. - Well, I'm going to say some things that I'm going to pass the assignment. And then Matt, if he's interested. But Toad is releasing our debut project, debut album, full length. It's going to be about 40 minutes at the loving touch on June 21st. And it has been a labor of love. It has been a collaboration of brothers. It has been a fixation on personal expansion and creativity. And I'm excited to share it with the world. And probably one of my proudest accomplishments will be releasing it. So I hope if you hear this and you want to come out and see it, you can enjoy the music. And yeah, Toad, June 21st, Toad by Toad. You're going to get Toad by Toad. - Yeah. - Oh yeah. - So-- - June 20th for the album. - June 21st. - June 21st. - Oh, it's for the album. - On the show at the loving touch. - You were tight on that earlier. - And now you have corrected myself. - You have corrected in your own game. - Yeah. - And May 9th, if it hasn't already happened yet when this comes out, is the "Out to See" release. And I'm very excited for that. I really like that song. - It's a brainchild of science. - Thank you. - That is beautiful. On May 10th, we're playing in NYC. I think it'll probably be after May 10th. - Definitely. - Yeah. - That's only six days away. Yeah, it's gonna be bad. - Is it man? - At that point, I thought it was March. - Man, this has been the Fresh Science podcast. (rock music) - Fresh. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (rock music) ♪ I don't know what I was looking for ♪ ♪ And I found out when she walked through those ♪ ♪ Metal doors ♪ ♪ She took control over my eyes ♪ ♪ Talking slow and I can barely hear what she said ♪ ♪ She could go, go, go, go, go ♪ ♪ And I can't even tell from the mind ♪ ♪ Let it die, I'm alone ♪ ♪ She's right in my mind ♪ ♪ When she's inside, I don't know ♪ ♪ And I ain't wasting any time ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ I don't know what she was looking for ♪ ♪ I don't know what she found out when I walked across that ♪ ♪ Fucking floor ♪ ♪ I took control over her eyes ♪ ♪ Talking slow and I can barely hear what she said ♪ ♪ She could go, go, go, go, go ♪ ♪ And I can't even tell from the mind ♪ ♪ I'm talking slow and I can barely hear what she said ♪ (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music)