Deep in the dark silent wilderness, some forests carry legends that stand the test of time, leaving a haunting presence that precedes them. But what's really behind these terrifying tales of creatures and ghosts? Can they be explained or are these ancient places truly beyond our understanding? Today, we explore the grizzly true crime history that's shaped the haunting paranormal stories behind the free town state forest. This is Redweb. Welcome back Task Force to another episode of Redweb, the podcast all about unsolved mysteries, true crime, and a little bit of the unknown. I am your resident mystery enthusiast Trevor Collins and joining me, hearing this case for the very first time, Alfredo Diaz. Oh, here we go, back to the good stuff. I'm very excited to see, I don't know, to explore the story, the tale, see what's going on here. Because it's usually like a whole encapsulated tale when it comes to this kind of stuff. Right. This one's interesting. Yeah, because it is more than just a simple tale, it goes back further than American history. We are here in the state of Massachusetts. There are certain elements of folklore mixed with culture, mixed with ghost stories, mixed with, again, true crime. And so it is interesting to explore a place that has a little bit of all of it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a lot of diverseness to it. So I'm looking to see how it meshes together. And I'm wondering if they can affect them anyway and if that kind of unravels the mystery a little bit or maybe pulls us away from its believability. I got you. I got you. Like, will it snowball into itself or will it unwind itself? I like that angle. That's where we're going to be. And of course, when you have such a wide breadth of different topics, there will be a lot of sensitive content warnings here. So if you're looking for that, as always, in the description. But before we dive in, I want to talk about what we got going on here in October. Because we're cooking this month, you know we love Halloween. And so we like to celebrate big, whether it be our movie clubs this month, the ghost hunt that's coming in two weeks. We've got another spooky stories there at the end of the month on Halloween Eve. But before we get way ahead of ourselves, Fredo, this Wednesday, we have another research outline coming. And so if you remember when we covered the exorcist, there is a true story there. And so I'm posting the outline that guided our conversation around the true story behind it. And if you want to take a look, that is a full episode available for you task force. But this Friday also, you can check out the recorded version, the edited version of break room are behind the scenes show. And that was from September. You can see that live every month all available at red web pod.com. And if you want to get some ghoulish merch, we do have things like polter knife, which is like an embroidered hat and sweater. That's available at store dot red web pod dot com. Got a lot to dive into a lot to dissect and I want to get your eyes on this. So let's start with the overview. I'm going to give you an idea of what this forest is. Give you geographically. It's important. And then we'll walk through kind of each chunk of this will start with the true crime. And then slowly weasel our way into the folklore and then the paranormal. All right. So the free townfall river state forest also known as free town state forest. It's an expansive publicly owned forest there in the southeast reaches of Massachusetts, a state that has a pretty colorful history when it comes to the paranormal, whether it be like the Salem witchcraft trials or were just like a lot of colonial fright. And it's just it's as old as it gets when it comes to America. Now this forest itself is quite large. It covers roughly 5,000 actually specifically 5,441 acres of land all in that city of fall river. But it also incorporates the town of free town and Lakeville. This includes other historic villages in the area that are kind of within the confines of free town. You have one called a sonnet and then east free town. Now this swath of public land, it started quite small and humble when the state first acquired 9 acres and assigned there in 1913. The forest then gradually has grown since then and it boasts trails for biking, hiking, skiing, dogs sledding, off-roading, horseback riding and as we'll kind of talk about in two different cases, dirt biking. I mean, you can kind of do a little bit of everything out there. Oh yeah, I mean, why wouldn't you got a big vast forest too? I also forget like forests, they're beautiful but man, you can get lost. You can get lost real quick in a forest. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. They thing. And I've always lived in places that don't really have a vast forest. You go to places like this and it's just trees on trees on trees. I mean, this one, when it comes to grandiose forests, it can be easily humbled but it isn't small by any means either. You can easily get lost in some forests like this. But yeah, man, forests on their own, you see a lot of movies like The Ritual which I think that's in at least in Germany, if not even in the black forest of Germany, which itself has so many terrifying haunting tales of it. But like, I feel like as I get older, that is creeping in as one of my phobias. Like just being lost and turned around in the depths of the woods. Like where is, like, where's where you could go so far, so deep into it, how are you going to be found? Like. Yep. I don't know. Questions I would ask myself, do I keep going, do I just stop and stay on right here because maybe I'm closest to where they think I would be? These are good instincts. Maybe. Actually, I don't know. Maybe I should just stay out of the woods. Don't listen to this guy. Yeah. Don't listen to me. But yeah. Now, despite all of these family-friendly qualities, of course, it's a red web episode. You know that it's got more to uncover. And these woods have been labeled the most haunted forest in America. I'm sure people all over the place, especially in the Appalachian areas, are kind of going on a second. Wait a minute. I'd like to talk about whoever labeled it that, but that is the nature of being the most haunted. You're going to be in competition, but it is quite eerie. So the free-town state forest is part of the infamous Bridgewater Triangle. I'm going to throw this image up to you, so you can kind of see where we're at, not only for the triangle that we're talking about right now, but also for the forest. So this is still in the eastern reaches of Massachusetts. And the Bridgewater Triangle itself is roughly 200 square miles or like 520 square kilometers. It is enormous. And if you look closely at this map at the very south and east portion of it, that's where you see free-town. It is the kind of bottom right corner of that triangle. Oh, yeah, right there in the corner. Yeah. And the greenery you see around there, that's the forest we're talking about. Oh, there's a big chunk of green. Oh, yeah. Big chunk of green, but a huge triangle. And I want to say, kind of firing from the hip here, you know, the Bridgewater Triangle has a lot of topics to talk about. Maybe we'll do a full episode on that at some point. I do want to say like the free-town state forest, I believe, is like 30 to 40% of the triangles, darker stories. Maybe, again, I'm just guesstimating here because there's triangles all over the place. I feel like we got to do a triangle month or something. I guess it coincides with things like the Fubina Triangle or just hotspots in general. Yeah. Yeah. Disappearances, things you see or are reported or what have yeah, yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that. I'll be honest. This is a hotspot. Cool. Not living here. Well, I mean, you can find yourself and rain them and you're just like, I don't know, going to the grocery store. And you have no idea. You're in the depths of whatever this triangle is. Yeah. I would just prefer not to. You know what I mean? There's so many places in the world you can live. Not alone, like taught being in a hotspot, me, I'm okay with that. I'm okay with not doing that. The same way I'm okay with staying as far away as possible from the Bermuda Triangle. It's just, it's not necessary. I don't. It isn't necessary, but it's kind of, it's kind of like, maybe I want to go out there. I remember as a kid. I remember vividly. It was like third or fourth grade, I was learning about it. And I was like, when I grow up, I want to get a little boat and go out there and I want to figure out what's happening. Meanwhile, that's the end of my story because I disappeared. Yeah. That would be it. I mean, you know, I wish it was one of those places where I could view it from a distance. But what would you view? It's like, you see that water over there next to all that other water? Yeah. That water over there. It's the triangle. Exactly. It's huge, actually. But it's not like there's some glowing walls that you enter and you feel a shiver down your spine. You know? Okay. So I'm going to continue. I want to, I want to set Freito up for a bad time. Christian, our producer, our man in the chair. Can you help me out? Are there any paranormal hot spot triangles labeled here in central Texas? Are we in one? Has this man just been in one for years and not known it? There's no way. Like if we're in one, it's got to be one that people just throw out there because they want to throw a story up or something like that, right? Right. But AI is going to make it up and then be like, ah, yes. Right. Because we would hear, we would hear about it. You know what? I feel like we would. But how many haunted locations or paranormal cases have I talked to you about here in Texas that you were like, oh, I had no idea they were, they were in Austin. That, you know what? Okay. You got me.
we hear about it. It'd be like the Chookbacabra likes to go down six street and hit up all the bars. Yeah, I mean, like that's, that's wild. He just, he just really been doing that. No one's got photos, huh? Okay. That would be an episode where Fredo commissions a cardboard cut out of himself to just sit silently at the microphone and say, I can't get me with that foolishness. No, absolutely not. I could do this podcast from a distance. While Kristen looks into that, I'm just going to say to wrap up the idea of the bridge water triangle, it was a term first coined in the 1970s. So it's relatively recent, certainly with the, the boom of the paranormal and with like possessions and demons and a lot of paranormal stories really like started to hit the maps there in the 70s and 80s. But by cryptozoologist Lauren Coleman, because they noticed a pattern in this particular area as you kind of pointed out Fredo, strange phenomenon going on, whether it be lights, mysterious objects, unidentified crafts or disappearances, those are usually your cornerstone pieces to an area that's labeled triangle. And it's never like a tetrahedron or an octagon or something, you know, it's always a perfect circle. It's always, it's always the triangle. Yeah, why is it always a triangle? The devil's shape, you know? That's what it asks. It's some kind of demonic shape. The Illuminati, they throw their, their triangles in the air. Christian, do we have any of these things kicking around in Texas? Do you know? We actually do a parent. Oh, can I guess? Is it up North? Like the way a little big triangle? How far North do you think him? I don't know, panhandle. Oh, no, a little further south. Okay, hit me with it. What is it? What do we got? Apparently, there is something called the Texas dog man triangle. We are right smack bad in the middle of it. You have seen a dog with a human eyes and human's teeth. Like a dog man, like that's the triangle that we're in. It is apparently from San Antonio to Dallas to Houston, those three cities form a triangle called the Texas dog man triangle where there have been reports of encounters with werewolves, AKA dog man. Okay, werewolf is a lot harder than dog man. Yeah. When I think dog man, I think like a dog with the eyes of a human and the kneecaps of a human and the teeth of a human and that's just weird. I feel like those are just main, main cities and they're like, let's just triangle. I knew they would do that too. I was like, we got four big cities right around here. Just slap three of them down and you got a triangle of some shape and kind, you know. Exactly. But I mean, here's the thing. I'm not hearing nothing about no werewolves. The decade I've been here haven't heard anything about like dog man triangle, the werewolves. So I sought that in the category of like, we just want to make some up and it's just cool to talk about paranormal stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What's it is? Well, I've never seen you in dog man in the same room. So who knows, man, we might be on to something. Chris, do we got him? We got him. I see his hair is getting long like a dog. No, we're telling you come over. He prefers a bowl for water. He got ripped and shredded. I don't know. Man, it's starting to connect a little bit. Yeah, he drinks out of a bowl. Is that what you said? I'm so careless. I must be careless under the full moon. So he's dog man without the pizza. Yeah. That's just a man. It's okay. I'm the man. This is the man triangle. What are we talking about? No dog is the man. It's just the man. Got a lot of those around here. Okay. Okay. We got to get back the brass tax. Like I said, we could probably do an entire episode on the Bridgewater Triangle Task Force if you're interested. Fredo, if you want to learn more about it, we have lightly visited before. If it sounds familiar because we did an entire episode on the Pukwaji, a creature from Wampanoag folklore, a cute little creature almost squunk like in its energy, except it's way more insidious. It's a prankster that can lead to death. We'll talk a lot more about it here soon. But all right, let's leave the man, man, and the dog man behind us because I'm going to set the tone. I'll remind you of the case we covered last year for Halloween, the Lizzy Borden House. Again, it was a grizzly true crime case that has since morphed into a paranormal hotspot. And all of this, coincidentally, Fredo, took place just 11 and a half miles or 18 kilometers from this state forest. And this perfectly mirrors the state forest because the haunting claims about it aren't based solely on rumors or hearsay, but kind of fueled by the many chilling incidents that have taken place in this location over the years. So let's talk about some of those cornerstone cases. I think these are the leading ones, though I want to admit that we could be scratching the surface. There are likely to be at least one or two that we aren't covering in depth here. But the first one I think is the biggest one. On September 8, 1978, at about 4 p.m., 15-year-old Mary Lou Aruda was kidnapped while riding her bike near her home in Reynum, Massachusetts. Now Reynum is about 14 miles or 22 kilometers up north, right in the heart of Bridgewater Triangle, but north from the state forest. A neighborhood boy actually found her bike at around 4.30 p.m. on the side of the road. And next to her bike were tire tracks. And when analyzed later on it looked like they had signs of sudden acceleration. Now I would assume that that means like kicking up dirt and you see kind of like clear tire marks that then turn into kind of skids where dirt has piled up and skidded and kind of thrown away, right? Also next to her bike toward the middle of the road was a Benson and Hedges cigarette. Now the boy knowing that this was the bike of Mary Lou returned the bike to her home and this would have been around 5 p.m. At this point Mary Lou's parents knew something was up. That her daughter was in trouble and immediately her mom calls the police and reports her as missing. And for the following three days police searched high and low for any evidence of who could have possibly taken Mary Lou. And then thankfully witnesses begin coming forward. Five individuals reported seeing a bright green car with either a black or a silver stripe going down the side and black lettering. They said they saw this speeding through the area around about the time of her known abduction about the time that they figured she was missing right 4 p.m. Now it's unclear if these five people saw all this together and so they reported it together or if this was like a string of eyewitness accounts across town that all noticed this speeding green van. But one witness goes a little further with the details. She said she saw a male in the car with dark curly hair and dark rimmed glasses. Another witness saw someone else in the car with the man but they couldn't really make out who that might have been. So immediately we're thinking okay this is suspicious. That second person very likely could be Mary Lou. Now after publishing a wanted poster with details on the driver's appearance the police were then eventually led to 31 year old James Cater. So I do have a photo of both individuals here you might have seen Mary Lou a little earlier when I talked about her but Frado just for your sake you can take a look at both Mary Lou now and James Cater the leading suspect and who we're gonna focus on we're not gonna go too deep into the weeds of the investigation we're gonna stick with this guy. Yeah I mean fits the description but also like what what are we could you be more suspicious you're driving around in a van then it's easily recognizable because it's green with a stripe. Right driving recklessly yeah it's just very easy because it stands out and then you're just feeling the problem like I have curly hair I have glasses like dang can't throw in contacts that day maybe shave your head or something like that or a cap something that was your plan. But I mean does he own you know he's the primary suspect but does he own that vehicle? These are all great questions and these are all interesting details because I'm gonna spill a little bit of the beans you almost couldn't write it more self-incriminatingly that's a word. So let's talk a little bit about James Cater he had previously been released from prison just two years before this in 1976 well he had been incarcerated for the kidnapping and strangulation of a 13 year old girl who luckily at that time was able to escape he was also a registered sex offender who had previously attempted to sexually assault a 63 year old woman visiting her husband's grave and on a separate occasion attempted to run a woman off the road in what was suspected to be and a kidnapping attempt that was failed so from the jump it's clear that Cater is the prime suspect and likely perpetrator just given the rap sheet but of course you got to do your due diligence yep you don't want somebody else to escape under the cover of some other purve you know what I mean you have a man with a rap sheet horrible person see like the stuff like this is so difficult because he's a repeat offender of these types of things but he's not I don't know arguably not doing enough for the justice system to like throw him behind bars permanently you know what I mean so it's like thing so he just gets back out there and then just repeats it again and that's I won't point you just kind of go do you're sure you're not doing the extreme but I mean can it kind of can't have you out there right right it's it's a very nuanced conversation and I'm
not honestly educated enough to weigh in with an informed opinion, but like when you hear about something like this, it is very triggering where you're like, "Get this guy that hell out of here!" But what you don't want is the case that you're not aware of. There's the knock on effect where someone is arrested maybe unjustly, falsely, or, and then they're locked away innocently. And so like, it gets really hot buttoned difficult. Like, that's where I'm like dang, dude, lawyers, judges, the whole setup for the prosecution and defense situation. Like, it is so complicated, sometimes for good reason, and sometimes just purely frustratingly. And I mean, this is only the tip of the iceberg for the frustration of this particular individual. I'll tell you that right now. I agree. So of course, as you pointed out, in addition to his rap sheet is his appearance. It matches the information the police had received from these five individual witnesses who see this van blasting through town. It's got the hair, the eyes, and the glasses, rather. Now when police go to search that 1976 bright green opal, right? So yes, he does own a green van with a black racing stripe. Okay. What they find when they open it is the opposite of your inclination. This isn't a guy that says, "I'm going to put on contacts and shave my hair for the crime," or afterwards, "No." He comes strapped with two extra cartons of Benson and Hedges cigarettes that he left at the scene. He comes with two extra pairs of the same dark-rimmed glasses. So it's like a man taking off one pair of glasses and putting the exact pair on elsewhere and being like, "I have now disguised myself." In addition to that, he has several newspapers from September 10th each open to articles about the very disappearance of Mary Lou. So like, why are you fascinated? Okay, you're matching the description. You got the vehicle. You got the tire tread. Actually, I should have said this too. His tire tread is very, very similar, if not identical to the tire tracks found at the abduction site. And you got the articles out and open. What are we doing here? Folks, this guy reeks of guilt, stenchy with it. I mean, even if he didn't do it, at this point, how much more can one set themselves up to look like the person that did the crime? What are you, some sort of freak fan of killers and kidnappers? Like, this reeks of, I definitely did it, right? You got the rap sheet and all the evidence kind of going point at you. And then on top of that, you have witnesses that are placing his car at the free-town state forest at around 4.30 p.m. Okay. So they're placing the, he does own the car because I know we talk about the tire tread's matching. Yes. He's got the, like, a green Opal, a bright green Opal with the black racing stripe, which is very close to that kind of green van that they saw. Yeah. The only thing is we don't know if that was the actual car. It could just have been driving and he's very suspicious. I suppose, I mean, yes, by, by the way of the law, you're like, all right, you are now very firmly our primary suspect. Let's continue on here to, to, to figure it out for, to get that bulletproof tangible evidence so you could put somebody away, right? But honestly, so far, tire tracks, witness accounts with that van witness counts with that van in the area now near the forest, the matching cigarettes, the matching glasses, the articles, it's not looking good for this dude. And still, despite witnesses putting this vehicle near the forest at 4.30 p.m., right? Very soon after her disappearance, Maryly would still be missing until two months later, November 11th, 1978. Now, this seems so obvious in hindsight. I don't know how much the police did or did not look into the forest. But ultimately, her body is discovered by chance by a group of kids riding dirt bikes through the forest. And at the scene of the crime, she was tied to a tree, right? Again, in free town, state forest. The cause of death was determined to be strangulation by ligature or positional asphyxia. I don't want to be too vivid about this whole thing. It is a minor, but ultimately, she was tied to the tree, like a cord wrapped around. And it was so tight around her neck that it would have caused her to either strangle in that moment or to pass out. And then her head falling forward would have caused her to then suffocate while unconscious. So ultimately, police suspect that she likely passed on the same day that she was abducted. And again, while the police are credited with immediately securing the scene, collecting the evidence, the samples from the abduction site, all of this stuff, and then immediately honing in on that primary suspect. It's unclear if their search ever extended into free town, state forest, when looking for Mary Lou. Again, with hindsight, that would seem obvious. It would be a pretty obvious, dare I say, dumping ground for a crime of that nature. But I think maybe with optimism, they're looking for somebody who is still around, still alive, and maybe in captivity in some way. But in 1979, Cater is found guilty of the murder of Mary Lou Aruda and was sentenced to life in prison without parole. Now, this is where things get aggressively frustrating. So let me walk you through it, kind of in a cliff notes. So 79 goes away, life without parole. However, the ruling is overturned four years later in 1983, because the prosecution used hypnosis to help witnesses remember specific details. And recently in an episode, we talked about hypnosis and how it can kind of, you can have false memories that come up. It's not bulletproof, if scientifically reliable at all. But he was tried again three years after that in 1986 and found guilty again. This verdict was also overturned five years later in 1991 with the court stating that the prosecution failed to prove that the witnesses memories had not been tainted by hypnosis. So again, relying on the hypnosis and maybe false memories verdict, the case is thrown out. He's tried again in 1992, which resulted in a mistrial due to a hung jury. Then again in 1996, he has tried for the final time. Once again, sentenced to life in prison without parole like 17 years after his first one. So he's in and out of jail, a man with a horrible rap sheet, and the possibility of doing it again, I understand the justice system has complexities for better or worse. Again, I can't weigh in on that with with an informed opinion. But in situations like this, it's hard not to have that knee jerk and be like, for God's sakes, get this man off the streets. It's very difficult. And then there's the frustration of you should have been behind bars a lot sooner, which we would have avoided this situation in the first place. He was tried so many times. So that then tells me there was, I mean, what evidence did we have at that point? And then what put him like what was the nail in the coffin? Yeah, it's principally what we've already outlined, including a few odds and ends without going into like the granular details because we're covering more than just the one case here. But ultimately when it really comes down to it, it's kind of doing that thing where the defense is finding a wedge that wedge issue for two of these overturnings was the hypnosis, right? They're like, well, you can't use hypnosis. You might be making up memories and stuff. And so I think it needs to be throughout and we need to go to trial again. And then on that next time they once again used it to say, well, they didn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they didn't have false memories. And then you got to mistrial with a hung jury, which is kind of in the news right now. And so like it isn't even the lack of evidence, which makes it so frustrating because when you really look at it on paper, everyone's kind of going, yeah, all right, like obviously, right? But you got to like, again, I will say Mary lose case is credited with aiding the changing awareness amongst the community about the flaws in the judicial system and the severity of sex offenders. Her case is still one of many that many point to regarding the the forest here, the free town state forest, and kind of using that to explain some of the misfortune. They're almost pointing to it as saying, like, see, here's part of its dark history. Here's why it has this sinister energy. It has these paranormal elements to it. So it's going to be a little whiplashy, but I'm curious, like to go from true crime into the paranormal, but I'm curious once we get there, how you'll feel about it, especially once we talk about the theories, right? Yeah, and that's why I said in the beginning, I'm interested to see how this genre mixes together, whether it's more so just because it's, you know, people are just having feeling bad vibes, and that just creates these stories, or it's because there's actually a, you know, little bit of fact going on here, a little bit of evidence of the paranormal. Right. Yeah, does this place attract evil? Does it encourage evil? Is it coincidental? Or is it just all a little bit of a snowball effect of human psychology? It's, I think you're on to a lot of different interesting thoughts there. This episode of Redweb is sponsored by Factor. 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[email protected], see website for more details. This episode of redweb is sponsored by RocketMoney. Thinking about finances and setting a budget can be stressful. And it's honestly the last thing you want to be thinking about when you're just trying to relax for the weekend, and that is where RocketMoney comes to help. RocketMoney can track subscriptions and has the ability to cancel unwanted ones within the app with just a few taps, giving users an easy way to stop paying for the things that they simply don't use. The app also consolidates checking, savings, loans and investments into one dashboard to give you a clear view over your entire financial picture. Everybody here at Redweb uses RocketMoney and I really enjoy just the transparency across all of my debit or credit cards to see where it's coming in from and where it's going out from. That way I can always make sure that at the end of every month, I'm contributing to my savings in some meaningful way. 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I'm not going to say you're going to constantly waddle into bodies in here. But you see it's kind of upsetting and it builds its own story and it hits headlines when kids are riding dirt bikes. A man is running with his dog and then they stumble into a body. It's very jarring to say the least. Yep, it can be attractive to even organize crime, which actually in this case I don't think there's any evidence here of but it is a common trope with many forests around the world. But what was more sinister about this is not only is there a dead body here but Serrito had been shot in the head in the groin and in the chest. Seems like several times over. Almost like a crime of passion, just like aggression, something here. I mean this shoots someone in the groin multiple times, aggression, frustration, stuff like that and you're taking it out on the victim. Any other shots after the one in the head is just like you're just desecrating. You're just there's some pent-up energy there, whatever it is. Do we know that the one in the head was the first shot? That's a great point. Again, kind of long story short here because it is a solved case. Police brought in 18-year-old Stephen Costa for questioning and while he initially claimed he was out of town the night of the murder, you know, I had an alibi. Police noted that the treads of his car once again matched exactly the ones found near Serrito's body. Again, I don't know if you need to figure this out. I'm not trying to teach crime out here. But like, this is kind of the first one and two cases where you and I have talked about tire treads really being a cornerstone to true crime. I'm surprised we don't hear that very often. That's true. I am surprised as well. I mean when you're driving to a forest, there's a lot more nature here. It is 100% nature. And so you compare that to a big city or even a city that has some nature but still, you know, a concrete jungle. Or like a desert where it's sandy and, you know, it's going to be more mud. It would be more dirt. And so you're going to leave the trail mark. But then again, it's like, man, I don't know. This seems like individuals that haven't really thought things through. But it just seems like the most obvious, if I'm going to drive here, I'm essentially creating footprints. If they're even remotely sniffing my way, that's going to be a nail in the coffin for me. Totally. I mean, yeah, sure. You know, everybody has my firestone tires. So I should be safe. But it is also about the where and like, and how the tire wears. And you know, if you have some sort of misalignment, it wears in a unique way versus a different tire. But I think, you know, what you reminded me of something. And I said that weird, but you reminded me of something. And we'll talk about it later. But yeah, this forest isn't just your bog standard forest that you might like kind of think about. There are an extensive amount of wetlands in this area. And so maybe that's exactly why tire marks are so common because it is more muddy and there is more water and moisture in this soil. So it can kind of get that like little mud imprint. Yeah, like a big imprint, right? You earn a city a little concrete jungle. You got none at all. As you're burning out your tires on it or something. Sure, right. Yeah, exactly. But dirt, okay, sure you'll get a little one. You got a mud. Oh, man, you're leaving a fat fingerprint via your car. Oh, yeah. Yeah, you're dead to rights right now. Or at least you're like, you can really hone in. You can also start to try to figure out like the weight of the vehicle and some other attributes of it that way. But ultimately, you know, when his story proved improbable, his alibi and everything, Costa actually did provide a written and verbal statement not only implicating himself, always not going down alone. He starts talking about his cousins. You got Michael and Kevin. He talks about his friend named Bruce Frank. And according to Stephen's statement, just before the murder, the group of men were drinking at a local bar before moving on to go to dinner. And it kind of gets a little hairy here. But ultimately upon returning to Frank's house, they found Stephen's car tire was flat. It changed the tire. And when doing so, this group of four finds Sarito, who, again, is a drifter at this time, they find him kind of loitering around nearby. I don't know exactly what he's doing here. But and they ask him, they kind of confront him and they say, hey, did you see who did this? Like did somebody slip my tire? Do you know who flattened it? Maybe you did it kind of thing. Well, he doesn't really answer. Maybe he doesn't know, but it seems that whatever went on between them, things get heated. And it escalates. Stephen then accuses him. Wait a minute. You're not telling me because I think you're a narc. I think you're a police informant. And you're here to keep an eye on me. Right. This is what Stephen is thinking. You're trying to bust me for drug dealing, which that sounds like a confession. But at this point, the men begin to beat Sarito before then throwing him in the trunk and driving off into the forest. And again, all of this comes from the confession now from Stephen, but it was there in the forest that they shot Sarito repeatedly before dumping his body where it was found. So Bruce, Kevin and Stephen are all sentenced to life in prison. Michael, which was one of the cousins, was the only one who refused to shoot Sarito in cold blood. Just given the whole situation escalated so quickly, but he is still party to the murder and he is separately convicted for related murder charges. I don't Christian, maybe you can help me out. I actually didn't look into how long he went away while everyone else was life in prison, but given the crimes I would imagine it's for an extensive period of time. But again, you have another heated true crime case resulting in somebody winding up in the forest dead or dying in the forest, even. I think that's just the environment, though. I mean, I don't, that's just a convenient place. No eyes, no camera, exactly. I think it's more of a convenience than anything. Right. And when you're right next to all these towns and cities and like you said, urban sprawl, you're like, well, let's go over there. No one's going to find us in the evening after dinner when it's dark out deep in the woods. And there are plenty of roads that go through there. And so it's almost easy to inject yourself deep in there. Do your dastardly deed and then I hope you get away with it with your evidence and tire tracks and stuff. True. Yep. I mean, again, it did seem like a crime of passion or emotion, right? Yeah, just super aggression. Yeah, or there's just aggression. And then it just escalated and kept going from there. Christian, were you able to find anything on a cousin Michael at all? No, this is surprisingly hard to find details on. I'm finding details on the others that we've mentioned, but nothing about the cousin
and just yet. - I'm not surprised. Some of these like, especially when they're known and solved, they kind of like become a time capsule of what they were and then they don't get talked about or reported on and so they almost fade away into time, but well, thanks for checking that out. Before we pivot though, there are two more victims. We're moving a little bit more into modern territory. There have been other bodies found, I think, as recent as 2025. Those are cases we won't talk about because I don't think they're true crime related as of my kind of brief research into that. Also, it's a bit sensitive, it's so recent. But okay, in July of 2001, two more bodies were found in Free Town State Forest. And a suspected double murder, a fall river man named Edward Negron, was found face down on the side of the road. Nearby was a Silver Mazda protege where another man named Lissandro Medina was also found inside the vehicle, also deceased from a gunshot wound. And the driver's side window had a bullet hole in it. In October of that same year, police arrested Irene Perez after connecting him to a stolen 30 caliber carbine rifle and these ballistics directly tied him to the weapon at the scene of the crime. So long story short, two men shot and kind of close proximity to each other. One on the side of the road, maybe somebody was driving by and then he goes, well, you're a witness and then shoots him. Now, police believe that there might have been more going on here that this was a, but police believe that there might have been more to this story that it might have been a drug deal gone wrong. And ultimately, Perez was sentenced to two consecutive terms of life in prison for the murders. So you can see its modern dark history taking shape, taking form. I'm gonna walk you back now as we start to shift out of the true crime. I'm gonna go back to a similar time frame, maybe the late '70s, early '80s, before then moving fully into the kind of spanning paranormal sightings in this area. To me, it's, you know, it doesn't necessarily mean that this place is worse or better. If you haven't talked crime rates or anything like that, you know, if there was an alarming 10x percentage for these violent murders or something like that, you know, if there's statistics and numbers that kind of prove it. Otherwise, it's like, okay, these are, these are crimes that happen in the area. - That's a great point. And we talk about that, you know, I talk about the Lizzie Borden house, you know, when something violent and bloody and gristly happens in a location, I do think, and we'll talk about this in the theories more, there is a psychological impact where either if you're a believer in the paranormal, there are ripples in time where that energy might be able to manifest in various ways. Or as maybe a more of a skeptic, you can see how those ripples take place in the mind and in the folklore and in urban legend with the communities around the area. But either way, I find it so fascinating, almost like, or lack of a better word, the etymology, which is more for language, but like the origin story of a ghost or the paranormal, like, why do those get started? How do they start and how do they perpetuate? And so, I think you're onto something though. The fact that there doesn't seem to be an overtly loud statistic that says, man, for some reason, more people die here, I mean, yes, we are in a triangle where there seems to be more phenomenon. And there are other triangles like up in New Hampshire where people go disappearing with greater consistency or frequency. But so far, I think you're onto something with the idea that, well, a couple crimes in these woods or ending up in these woods doesn't necessarily paint the full picture. So building on that picture and kind of getting you to understand more of this folklore here around the forest comes the idea of some satanic cult activity. Because, of course, you got these tragic murders of humans. Now rumors around the same time as this first disappearance. Again, late '70s, early '80s, you have rumors swirling of satanic cult activity in the forest, maybe the slaying of animals, the sacrifice of animals for the satanic panic of the late 20th century. Right. You saw it a little bit in Stranger Things, right? Where they're like dungeons and dragons. That's, oh, my goodness. But that's kind of manifesting here. So throughout this time period, police are investigating the murders of multiple women in the nearby city of Fall River. And during that time, witnesses came forward explaining that they had seen suspected satanic cult activity in the forest, right? Maybe it was them. Maybe it was these mysterious, robed entities deep in the woods that might have carried out all of these murders. So there's animal blood scenes stained on these trees. There's suspicious clearings that we're finding. Ooh, can't be natural. Maybe they're doing more than that, if at all, right? Right. So later building on these fears, I should say, these rumors. People are finding cattle carcasses in the woods. Again, that's like adding gas to the fire. Definitely. Now, some outlets that are reporting on this, they're talking about this idea of a torture bunker that was found in the woods where sacrifices were suspected to take place. Now, we're going to be pretty candid about all this. Whether the forest was truly home to sacrificial rituals or simply the product of that, like I said, at late 20th century satanic panic, will likely never know for actual certain, but I will say to really guide the mind, there is no concrete evidence to back these claims up, right? I was like, where's the shed? Where's this bunker? Right, if you're talking about a torture bunker, that makes a good headline to sell papers. But like, now you have the burden of proof is on your side. Let's see that bunker. Like, let's see these bloody trees and these clearings that don't feel natural, right? Yeah. So you might not be able to say with tangible evidence, whether it was or wasn't happening, but you definitely have a lack of evidence proving it did. You know? On top of that, the forest was never officially linked to what became known as the Fall River cult murders, right, the murders of all those women. However, it didn't really stop it from becoming deeply linked through rumors, allegations, folklore. I mean, even if something is proven wrong in the news, if it's lived in the zeitgeist or on the newspapers long enough, there kind of becomes an inextricable link to it where you still kind of believe it even if it's proven wrong, you know? Yeah. That continues to build, especially in modern times, this allure, this mystery, this intrigue around this otherwise historic forest. Now, of course, because of all of this, there's no denying that there is a level of sinister atmosphere or even spirit that default this entire area. You have the countless examples beyond what we've talked about and mentioned already. And before we move into the paranormal, can't actually found a lot of really, I don't even know how to classify these things. So I'll just kind of fire them off. In 2016, there were thick wires that were found strung between many of the trees. And these were at perfect height level for a decapitation or at least a serious neck injury for anybody riding around on an ATV or a dirt bike in the area. You know, you think of ghost ship where that high-tension wire kind of slapped through a bunch of people at the waist. Yeah. This is 2016. Someone had the wherewithal to say, I'm going to do this, set it up and not be riddled with guilt enough to take it back down. Thick wire spanning, like pathways, come on, man. Yeah, that's devilish right there. Yeah, I don't think ghosts are doing that. No, not at all. I also do feel like at this point, the story, right, and the tales around the area are bringing it out of people. Like, that's a bad place. Or people do bad things. And then people with urges are like, oh, I'm going to do a bad thing in the bad place. Right. And then others, maybe from outside of it, use that to kind of reinforce it as evidence. Proof of itself, the catch 22 or the begging of the question, logical fallacy. But there's some other weird things that have been seen. Like in 2006, people began reporting seeing a pack of what they described as aggressive dogs roaming through this area. They were always shown or described as being feral. I don't know if anything ever came of that. If they disbanded, if it was just a pack of wild dogs, or if they were just dogs cruising through the woods and maybe they weren't feral, it kind of feels out of place. And maybe you'd think that they're feral. I don't know, but they're said to be aggressive. In that same year, I don't know if someone had, like, loose doors at the zoo or something, but apparently there was a wandering single eemoo that would rush at visitors. And we're talking like kind of similar to an ostrich. Just a giant bird that's basically a velociraptor. And it's just wandering around chasing people away. - Did any zoos report it missing? - You know what? I should have really looked closer at that. I just went that's weird and moved on 'cause I was so eager to get into the paranormal. Christian, if you don't mind helping out again, 'cause I don't think that this was like proven. I don't think this was proven real. - Yeah, it's probably just a tale that someone said. This place is kind of taken on a like a mind of its own or people are just adding on to the pot. Their own little ingredients, their own little stories. Everyone wants to have a story. Everyone's heard something. - Yeah, my uncle said he saw an eemoo. That's something my uncle would say. And I'll be like, okay, Todd, there's no way. - You know what I'm saying? - I'm like, I need something. You gotta give me some evidence here. Yes, someone said this in the comments.
just with a very dry delivery and it just didn't click, you know? But like, yeah, you're right, where's the zoo? Who's lost this exotic animal? But these are kind of like a storm of strange physical acts that have taken place in the forest. Now, I really, I'm finally excited to get into it, but we have the paranormal phenomenon that has been widely reported throughout the forest over the decades. And principally, I think the main thing that people have seen over the years are kind of strange floating orbs throughout the area. This wouldn't be the first time that we've heard of woods or marshy areas that have these kind of glowing orbs, sometimes called like Willow the Wisps, sometimes seen as candles held by spirits to guide you either to safety or sometimes to danger, but we'll talk about all those instances. Christian, you got that emu dirt? I can confirm that there were reports like articles written about the emo. They're the emo written about the emo. They're the emo emo. As much as the emo kids are running around that equally, that I believe. Now, that was the feral pack of dogs, you know? I was just seeing kids getting after it. That happened. There are articles written about the emu, but even the articles themselves say that investigators don't know where the emu came from. There are no reports of missing from zoos. They even try to reach out to people who like may have privately owned the emu and understandably no one's fessing up to that. So it's just a mysterious emu came from nowhere that has been cited in the area. Okay. Okay. Are there any like Massachusetts laws that say it's illegal to maybe house an emu of this caliber? You know, maybe that's why they didn't come forward 'cause like lost my emu, but I can't put up my poster. Right. If seen, please call and run. Do not approach. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that sounds about right. For a half second, I was like, oh, it's been reported, but even they were making, you know, disclaimer. They're like, we'll sell the paper, but we're not going to, you know. Yeah. Disadfranchise our whatever reputation we have here. Exactly. All right. Let's talk about these glowing lights because when I was first hearing about these woods and being the most haunted, I was like, okay. Let's dive into this. I know a lot of task force members have recommended us look into many haunted forests. We have many on the docket for the future to talk about, but also especially this one because it's part of the triangle. But I'm really kind of surprised at how localized it seems to be to these kind of orbs of light. You don't really have like, well, let's just dive into it. I want to start at the tip of the top, right, O. We're going right to the top. We got a president on the line. So Ronald Reagan himself reported seeing strange lights hovering over the forest when flying over Massachusetts back in 1974. Now, frustratingly, putting weak knees under this story come different iterations, of course. Now, other versions of this story say it simply happened in 1980 a whole six years later, but add some color to it. Not only did he see it and report it and that was simply it. No, instead in 1980, he decided to have Air Force 1 chase these lights, which if we're talking about a 747. This thing is fast, but it's not agile. I'm not chasing. Right. There's not a lot of memorability there. You're going to buzz the treetops, you know? So again, immediately it gives me kind of like, oh, maybe a fanciful story. But we do have a president on the line saying that he saw some strange lights over this forest. Like, OK, so he put his name down. He was like, I see something weird here. Yeah, I mean, it's very similar to so many astronauts, and maybe we'll do an episode on this. So many astronauts have seen unidentified aerial phenomenon that they can't really, we don't know what it is. Lights moving in a strange way. There's a lot of encounters in space, but can you just straight up say aliens? Maybe. But I like, that's where I'm like, oh, I'm really interested. Like, I have friends going for the astronaut program. And if they told me that they saw something weird in space, I'd be like, I believe you, but I want to know what. Exactly. So it feels like one of those moments. It does. Also, the president is saying he saw something and chased it down. Yeah. I mean, it could be a believer, but also, my mind goes, does he know something that we don't know? Right. He's got that president's book, you know? Exactly. National Treasure. That, or it's a misdirect. You know, what was happening at the time in '80 or '74, you know? Right. Because if he's saying there's such a conviction, does he? My mind goes, what does he know that I don't know? Yeah. Or was it super passive? Where he's like, yeah, you know what? Like, hyping up local folklore, like, trying to get some votes in the county. He's like, yeah, yeah, I also saw what you guys saw. Vote for me, please. You know, it could be anything. It could be me. He's campaigning. He's saying anything. Anything. So like, is it like an orb also, or is it like one of those UAPs? We've talked about where it is kind of like, still like a ball of light, but a little bigger. Like, I need more properties to dissect here. But I do want to say, yeah, okay, I don't want to pigeonhole ourselves beyond just the idea of orbular lights. Some have also claimed that spirits inhabit the forest. There are some reports that claim that Mary Loua Ruudah's screams can still be heard morbidly ringing throughout the trees, which I'm like, okay, maybe someone's screams. Not a tribute. I don't know. That just makes it a little gut wrenching for me, but like, someone's screaming in the woods. Anybody could be screaming out there. I mean, that gets a situation of, um, I'm scared. Is it something paranormal, but then also, wait a minute, bad things happen in this forest. Should I go help? But then am I really equipped to help myself, boy? Rider. Are you going to put yourself in danger? Yeah. So many. Yeah, I don't want to get shot in the growing like four times. Oh my god. Yeah. Well, truly. And beyond that, you know, it does sound like someone let the zoo out, and so it could be some sort of mountain lion, cougar, how, you know, that they have been frequently misattributed as screams in the dark. So what's interesting though is not only have people heard screams, but beyond that, you know, they've heard laughter, they've heard drums, and other things that really just don't belong in a mass of choose its forest. You know, again, maybe a hyena got out. I don't know what animal makes a drum sound, but maybe that got out too, to be facetious. But there's also reports that describe a red-headed, ghostly hitchhiker figure that would seemingly approach people, almost like they maybe were looking for help or interaction. And then as soon as they started to approach, they would just suddenly disappear, vanish before their eyes into echoing laughter in the woods. Mm-hmm. Hell no. Yeah, not into that. The whole finding someone in vanishing, that's, that's creepy, you're laughing. I feel like it is my final moments. Listen, I promise you this, if I end up haunting this corporeal realm for all of eternity, first of all, that sucks. Second of all, you're not going to catch me giggling and laughing at people, unless I'm so bored that it's been like 15 millennia, and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to start doing the giggles, I feel like that cross is a line, but whatever, like, I'll laugh at some people. Well, I'm putting it together right now, like, I don't want to be, we got a red-headed hitchhiker laughing at people, like, what a specific and unique ghost, but also equally as, as normal as that sounds, that's way too unsettling, you know, like, I don't like it. I mean, these are all little details, but, you know, is it tied to someone, you know, anyone specific? Yeah, it'd be interesting. Not something I need not can answer for, that's just my mind, you know, is this a known ghost who, like, this is Earl, and he likes messing with people. Known enough to be labeled, you know, or at least have, like, some sort of M.O., but what's interesting is that there's even reports in a similar way, there's another ghostly apparition, but they also have an equally unique and specific M.O. This particular one has many reports of a ghostly police officer who often only appears to other unsuspecting law enforcement officials who may just happen to find themselves in the woods. Now, I don't know, again, if this is lore built off the stories of people finding bodies and investigations ending up in the woods or what have you, but that's so specific, like an off-duty cop just happens to see a cop wandering after them or, and then they vanish, like, it is very specific, maybe that's just a lot of the department, they got their own little story. Yeah. Cause what if you're not in your outfit? Does the ghost know? Right, doesn't know, is this a hazing ritual? Yeah. Like, are you always supposed to have your badge on you, can it smell that brass badge burning a hole in your pocket? I don't know. I feel like it's the department getting their little slice of the, you know, campfire story. Yeah. They're like, oh, look, we're also haunted. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I want to refer to these next two pictures while I talk about this next one, one from below and one from above, because this is an interesting paranormal hotspot known as a sonnet ledge. And this is a, I think it's 50 feet is generally the height, but I've seen it maybe gets upwards of 80. I don't know if that's water level or if that's just variation in its height, but it's a 50 foot granite ledge that people have seen spirits jumping off the cliff side or glowing spheres down around the pond area. Others have also seen apparitions either of Native American warriors or of a morning woman wearing white coin.
find the Lady of the Ledge. - Ooh. - Yeah. - You know, looking at the actual close-eye, it's airy for sure. And it looks like a place, you know, the top of your graffiti, you've analyzed a lot. So there's definitely people here doing a little bit of mischief, probably a little hanging out, underage drinking, all that kind of stuff. - Yeah, am, am, am, am. - Yeah. So then from there, people are probably messing around, telling stories. I can see it. - Yeah. - That being said, I'm the top shot that looks out into the vastness of this forest. Make if you just go back to the stories that we're talking about here. You guys couldn't have walked in like half a mile to do the things that you did. It really just lazily along the trail. We're gonna commit this heinous crime. - Yeah, it would seem so. Yeah, maybe in the dark, they don't know where the trail is, you know? - Yeah. I mean, no effort at all to do a little trek. - Yeah, well hey, you know what? Good, lazy criminals get caught. - Exactly. - Just how about this? How about this? Don't be criminal. - That is true. - Try that on for size. - Just, you know? - Just don't. - Yeah. - The other things you could do with your time. - Yeah, rule number one, just don't, okay? Second of all, stop. - Yes. - Second rule, stop. But yeah, I agree with the vantage point at the top of this ledge. One, it's just beautiful. But you can also see that you get that uneasy feeling when you see just how far the forest goes. Your mind can start to play like, I don't know what the word is for the opposite of claustrophobia. Or maybe it is claustrophobia 'cause you feel so surrounded by this deep, deep woods. It's kind of like thalasophobia, a fear of the ocean. But instead, it's an ocean of trees. But it does remind me of some places that I used to go cliff jumping. - Oh. - I just don't know how deep this water is and I would imagine not very, given the next kind of little story about this. So ultimately, a lot of people that visit this location describe an eerie and unsettling feeling. Some have reported the urge that suddenly wafes over them to jump over the ledge while others feel an intense despair that kind of settles within them. And again, for the believer theory, is this like energy wafting through time and you're catching some of that in a more paranormal sense? Or from a skeptic side, is it? And we'll talk about all this kind of psychological priming, knowing the stories. Being honestly standing at the top of this, it looks way higher than standing at the bottom of this. - I agree. And I agree also with it being psychological priming. - Yeah, we're gonna talk a lot about that. - You see in the news, you read the newspaper, people just, you hear stories, while adding their own flavors to the story, their own stories, their own creatives, et cetera. And just so it just becomes the thing to talk about, you know? - People love a gossip. - Doesn't necessarily have to be about relationships or anything that people like to gossip about anything. - They like to ditch that gossip, they wanna be involved, they wanna have their stories. - I'm watching Vanderpump rules and man, do you just see how that like, how that chain evolves? - Yep. - And people just like can't help themselves. They gotta get in there. And when it's an interesting story, when it's a ghost story or anything like that, like come on, it's attractive. This episode of Redweb is sponsored by Quince. Once the night starts getting a little cooler, there's nothing better than getting into a really comfortable bed at the end of the day. It's that time of the year when great sheets, a soft duvet and an extra layer or two, really make a difference. Quince makes hotel quality bedding using premium natural materials designed for lasting comfort. 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Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK as well. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know that Redweb sent you. It's a great way to support the show while you're getting good stuff. This episode of Redweb is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner, BetterHelp, insurance options may be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but your brain doesn't know that. Stress does not politely wait until that day, burnout does not RSVP and mental health is part of regular life. Therapy isn't just for big life choices either. It can be a place to talk through smaller things that you're going through. The work situation taken up too much mental real estate, a relationship dynamic that you can't quite name or simply the sense that something feels off. I know therapy is a very personal journey and that's what I appreciate about BetterHelp is that they help people get started to find the right person to get their feet wet when it comes to figuring out how they get started with therapy. And if you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks. And eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Visit BetterHelp.com/Redweb to explore your payment options. That's BetterHELP.com/Redweb. All right, so with the idea of this despair settling in, the urge to jump morbidly, in fact, in 2004, there was a man who was visiting the forest with his family and girlfriend. And when they arrived at the top of this ledge, he suddenly threw himself off the side of the ledge and he plummeted down to his death. Now, his family said he showed no signs of depression or mental illness that they could decipher. He didn't openly express any suicidal ideation leading up to this tragic moment. Though, of course, as we all know, we never know what's fully going on in one's mind. And of course, his passing has only served to build on the folklore surrounding this ledge, the forest itself. And I don't know, man, I don't know what came first. Chicken or the egg, did this person jumping off, inspire more people to feel like, oh, I felt like I wanted to jump to or was that already there as part of the folklore? And this person was just, unfortunately, maybe like a coincidental victim of a similar narrative, right? - Right, the thing is, I just don't feel like it's, I guess like an uncommon thing, you know? I'm sure you could find a ton of forests or places that have a little folklore to them. That are hotspots, right? And then from there, again, psychologically primed, you know, did the family member know about this place prior when they, before you know, prior to visiting and whatnot? And did they suffer from mental illness or depression, anything like that? So it could be a number of different factors. And then this is just in a place where they felt that energy, they listened to the stories and the tales. That's where they made a quick decision. - Yeah, honestly, it could have been, again, chicken or the egg, but I can see what you're talking about, absolutely. But with that, I think it's time to move into the theories. You know, there's a lot to talk about about these forests, but it continues to take a similar shape and form. Now we're gonna revisit some of the Wampanoag folklore energy here, but I'll say it again, maybe later on, but if you want a deeper dive into some of the cultural stories, the origin of the puck wudgy, what it is, and how it came to be as a creature of folklore in this area, we did a whole episode on the puck wudgy. I didn't know there was that much to dive into, but it's really fascinating, and it really is a cornerstone of this area of the country. So go check that out after the podcast is done, but kind of pointing the finger at the Wampanoag people is, I'll be honest, it seems like some of the most popular theories out there regarding the strange occurrences in the forest. And the Wampanoag isn't just a single tribe. It actually consists of several villages and distinct communities and a lot of different cultural beliefs and stories. And before we dive in, I've been pretty open about my opinion on this kind of thing. So this whole thing will be kind of distilled and focused because in my opinion, a lot of Native American curses or Native American burial grounds, resulting in some sort of paranormal activity, all seems to be honestly the product of xenophobia, racism, stereotyping, ignorance, just in most cases. So with that said, take this with a grain of salt, but according to tribal lore, this land itself was sacred to the Wampanoag people long before colonization. In fact, in modern times, many points to the sinister energy surrounding this forest as starting all the way back with the removal of Native Americans during King Philip's War. This would have been in 1675 and 1678. Now in this war,
Or Wampanoag Chief Metacomit, among many other names, such as King Philip, was murdered. And so immediately, you know, it could be a little bit of colonial guilt here that we're talking about where the indigenous peoples are displaced. And because of that, you know, the psychological effect is, well, make the victim the evil party or the origin of evil to kind of smooth over these awkward feelings we're having. It's a complicated thing to talk about, but I can't help but feel honest about. But legend continues to say that a holy Wampum belt was taken and lost during this very same war. And it's the loss of this belt, a tribal relic that represents one's heritage that really instilled, there I say a curse on the land. I'm not a big fan of curses and usually they're the product of fear and ignorance. But the idea of like some sort of darker spiritual activity on this land, I'll say that. And I do have a picture of a belt like that. And you can kind of see, it's a beaded belt, it has different iconography on it, animals and nature. And it kind of tells the story of one's heritage. So there is a deeper meaning behind this item. Now ultimately, many who believe in this tale say that if this belt is returned to its rifle owner, it will resolve this so-called curse. And either way, yeah, relics should be returned to their rightful place, but settlers in this area have also named it the Hokamok swamp or a place where the spirits dwell because of the massive casualties to the Native Americans. But it's also truly actually a spiritual area to the Wampanoag. Now I will say Hokamok is also a genuine Algonquin word that does actually mean a place where spirits dwell and the Wampanoag people who revered the spiritual forces and sites of this. They kind of revered it with respect, with caution, with balance, right? And so it's not like the modern interpretation, which is to say, you know, like the folklore might be authentic here, but it has certainly grown away from this idea of like reverence over the spirituality of this area and more like featuring fear, turning into haunting elements, things that are luring you into danger or maybe meant to terrify you or attract darker energies like crime. Interesting, yeah. I will say like, yeah, I kind of caveat with the xenophobia and things, but it does have a cornerstone in some really interesting Wampanoag lore in history, which is like very much worth exploring and diving deeper on if you're interested task force. But again, as I kind of hinted, there is another genuine piece of Wampanoag lore here and that is the Pukwaji. I've got two images here, but there's all sorts of different iterations of what the Pukwaji looks like, but they are, for all intents and purposes, go get you the red web episode on these creatures. But they're kind of like three foot tall, porcupine-like creatures, you know, they got spikes all down their back and they're three feet tall and they are said to have the ability to shape shift. They have poisonous arrows and they are kind of pranksters, but not in just like a silly innocent way. They kind of like some of them look innocent in their depictions, some look evil, like almost like an evil homunculus. But the idea here is like the pranks can be pretty dangerous. They can lure people off trails and get them lost, but they might also push them off ledges to their death. So they feel fun and lighthearted, but there is a little bit more to them. In fact, with this in mind, some believe that the strange sightings involving the emu or the aggressive dogs that are seen wandering in packs through the forest might have actually been more genuine sightings of Pukwaji's themselves moving in disguise in their shapeshifted form. Now again, whole episode, if you want to check that out. Yeah, it looks like a little porcupine, like just a little porcupine A holds, to be honest. Yeah, honestly. Like look at them, they look so mischievous. The type of thing that you saw it, I go, yeah, that thing is bad, that thing is evil. Yeah, it's got that look in its face and honestly, anything with sharp teeth, I'm not really interested in, you know, yeah, I agree. If it's coming at me three feet tall, it doesn't matter for three feet, 30 feet, I'm kicking or I'm running a little bit of both, maybe a little bit of both. It kind of reminds me of, I guess it would be even shorter, but those little like mummy creatures, the homunculus from mummy two, scorpion king, oh yeah, they're running around that jungle and like, don't worry, they can't, they can't pass the headstones, like you're safe here and then it jumps over Jonathan and stabs the guy in the chest. Yep. Oh, God, do you remember that? I need to watch a second one. Yeah, it's a good time. Yeah. Incidentally, like I said, while some of the genuine folklore could easily explain some of the oddly dark natures behind this forest and maybe some of the spirituality, much of it has evolved with time, taken on a life of its own, and as much as I love the paranormal and desperately want tangible evidence of ghosts or anything else of that nature, most of the paranormal tales we've discussed in this show, not even just in this episode, have some pretty convincing psychological origins to them. Now, this isn't to debunk the entire arena, but like you and I always approach ghost investigations through the lens of we're going to debunk what we can and everything else stays in that narrow hallway we call the unknown until we can figure it out. And I think that could be what's happening here. So let's talk about psychological priming before we move into the mysterious lights specifically. So broadly speaking, research has shown that telling someone a location is haunted tends to increase the number of accounts in which people experience ghost-like encounters. If I told you a house was haunted, especially if it fit the aesthetic of an old rundown, maybe decayed house or an old man or an England or something, you may find it a little bit more intense, more atmospheric, and you may actually see or feel something, especially when you add in the added element of the lights going down, the sun setting, and now it's dark. Oh yeah. Or you're tired. Yep. Now with such a long and dark history going all the way back to the 17th century, it's possible that free-town state forest has generations of self substantiating stories across its communities that serve to keep the folklore alive and well, feeding future generations and priming them for their own encounters. And honestly, there is a little bit of heritage to that, a little bit of local culture that kind of can't help but feel like when you travel abroad, you share those stories because it's part of what you grew up with. And so it becomes ingrained. And that's not a bad thing, but it is also like, okay, we have stories. Can we understand? Can we dissect? But beyond that, when you're in the dense woods or an old house at night, what you see, what you hear, all of your senses can be stifled in a little bit, like you're not going to have your sharpest senses because it's dark and you have repeated patterns of trees everywhere. And this leaves you with a little bit of ambiguity. Your input is a little muffled. And so your brain can accommodate for that by relying on what's called top down processing, which is basically going in and all of your prior knowledge, your experiences, your memories, your expectations can all filter in and your brain can fill in the gaps. You know, we talk about false memories all the time, but if you come in knowing that people see hands around the trees and you're horrified at that idea, in the dark, you know, in the blurriness, you can't focus, your brain might put that in there. And you will feel like you'll believe that. Yeah, you're primed. And the thing, too, is how many times have we done a ghost hunt and then talked about a movie, right? Oh, man, it feels like it was from this. Imagine, remember this movie, remember that movie? Right. Similar shapes and tropes. We're primed just by your own visions and stuff. Totally. Yeah. By the content you consume and the art you look at and the books you read and all of that, it's a great point. Yep. Does this make it any less real to the person experiencing it? Arguably no. I mean, it is in your mind and it might not be a shared experience with somebody right next to you, but it doesn't change the story you now have that you've experienced and you felt the horror or the fear or maybe just the intrigue from. But then you also like kind of in a more lighthearted way. I think you mentioned this before, you've got young people. You know, they're daring each other to do scary rituals. You know, go whistle in the graveyard. Go hang out on old Bob's tombstone and sip a diet coke and he'll spit at you. You know, who knows? Right. Right. But you do these things. We love those things in high school. And when you do that, you could enter in this self-fulfilling arena where, yeah, your expectations paint the colorful picture. Your picture paints the image for others. And they then have new stories to tell and new people to go through that ritual with. And I think it's really interesting. I think it brings some understanding to how this can all come about. But I don't know, man, I just love a good ghost story, even even if you can kind of disarm it a little bit. I completely agree. And that's a thing, right? That's, we like to play in that world. We like to hear a story. Um, everyone loves a story even before, you know, the beginning of man, you know, they're telling stories. People love to do that type of thing.
And so that's why you know we say we listen because it's worth listening to it's entertainment but yeah, I mean to me It's a story for sure sure. I mean equally fascinating is the possible answers You know even if it's not as fun as ghosts are real which again, I'm still holding out for it's gonna happen I want it But if it doesn't it doesn't but now as we come to the end here This one's a bit of a shotgun blast because I believe in the past We've talked about mysterious lights We've explored them in a few episodes, but I don't want to just gloss over it So I will at least go through several possible explanations for orb-like lights Especially in wetlands and in forested areas because this does seem to be a common trend You know first and foremost could it be things like willow the wisps or Ferries or anything like that or maybe an authentic example of spirits in the area Absolutely science is defined by what it understands and the frontier of our understanding is by definition The unknown and encroaching into paranormal and so like science is always expanding and understanding and like Yeah, part of me kind of wants there to be something paranormal because it's fascinating and intriguing and it opens up the mind to other Like are we are there layered dimensions or realms whatever. It's all interesting But within the confines of science there are also a couple other interesting equally interesting explanations First of all, you got the marsh gas This is often pointed to but kind of hard to understand unless you really like given an honest thought and breakdown So organic marsh gases can be and are easily produced by decaying organic matter Leaves or trees or what have you just sitting in the water fun guy to decaying them Those are releasing combustible gases which for whatever reason could spontaneously combust Especially in wetland areas like this forest contains oftentimes like I said That's where you see a lot of lights of this nature. Of course you have some other interesting angles of like well There's roads and pathways through here people take ATVs or cars or dirt bikes or what have you could these be headlights moving through route 24 true Shine through the trees stuff. That's very possible and maybe you saw it differently because of your expectations There's also some really interesting Phenomenon ones known as Foxfire and they're both of these are going to be a little bit more rare But they definitely happen in which decaying wood can emit Blue or sometimes green soft light and not because the wood itself is simply decaying But because of bioluminescent fungi or fungi fungus mushrooms and When seen in the dark if you're not aware of that existing there or you're you just weren't aware of it It might surprise you and might take on a different form because again that top-down processing brings other things to play I wouldn't have expected a bioluminescent mushroom to just show up in the middle of the woods. No But now you might and this last one is super interesting Definitely grounded in science, but seems like it might be at least a little bit more on the rare side But there's a phenomenon known as the piezoelectric effect So there are minerals like quartz which are highly piezoelectric Or in other words, they're able to create an electrical charge when you apply mechanical stress to them Other words like if you take a quartz you squeeze it really hard or you clash it against another piece of quartz where it has immediate compression and decompression That can release an electric charge So talking about this effect now in short tectonic shifts in the earth can create massive amounts of localized pressure Oftentimes those take form of like earthquakes when they when they move and shatter in the ground breaks underneath them But if they move, you know like the earth can create pressure under the ground And in areas where there are large amounts of quartz crystals This could squeeze quartz in the ground creating electrical charges And these electrical charges could travel up breach the surface and then interact with the atmosphere and the air above the ground ionizing air molecules Creating a number of possible effects from little glowing balls of plasma to glowing myths or even just brief flashes of light Almost there I say a little bit like a static shock, but at a more macro level It's it sounds so strange because quartz often get co-opted into this like They absorb energy and spiritual energy and then emit it But I think that's because of this very interesting property where it is an asymmetric molecule I think if I remember it's like positive silicon and negative Oxygen ions and so when it's under immense pressure despite being hard It can deform slightly and those molecules shift And when they shift they emit an electric charge and when you decompress it that molecule bounces back And it then I think it emits a negative charge basically to balance that out so So I like the crystal girls really like the quartz It could be why they like the quartz Yeah, it's an interesting stone nonetheless and it's Often times attributed to hot spots whether it be of like portals UFOs aliens or anything like that and maybe it's because of this exact piezoelectric effect maybe But either way there are a few interesting angles as to those mysterious lights, but this is kind of You know whether you believe in curses the the occult the paranormal There is no denying that there is at least some pattern that's observable Or at least an unfortunate streak of tragedy That seems to follow the free town state park is that because like you said it is an obvious Like place for crime to maybe get away with Or is it because of something else that is maybe up to the task force But this has been the free town state forest again seemingly one of the most haunted forests here in america But what do you think fraido as we come to a close? I think there were bad things that happened and humans locals are creating This bad energy and then the bad energy is thriving a bit in this area Mm-hmm self-propagating maybe yep 100% yeah self-fulfilling Yeah, if you go back to the exodus of the indigenous and in the death of many of them here on what was already Sacred ground and burial ground like you can see just that's the kernel of Of that heavy weight that morbid story that then over time Yeah, I think you're right kind of self-perpetuates and and it is interesting to see how it takes so many different forms Um, but you know we'll look at the bridge water triangle and see What other things are happening in this area down the line somewhere? Not that far not that far at all and I'll be very curious To see what else is happening in this area and what other forms of intrigue are taking place Is it just more disappearances is it more Paranormal lights or does it start to get into the UFO sightings mysterious crafts in the sky All of that good stuff But this has been again the free town state forest fraido We are here in october and with that we're going to continue to have a wide swath of different topics But of course given the season they're all going to have their surprising foothold somewhere in the paranormal To keep just a little seasoning of that pumpkin spice a little bit a little some Little bit But with that said fraido I hope you've been enjoying october so far and I will see you next monday for yet another mystery you
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