Former NBA player Hanno Möttölä

Welcome to the Coach Dave Love Podcast with NBA Shooting Coach Dave Love and your host, Matt Robertson. Exploring the cutting edge of evidence-based shooting development in basketball today, from shooting form to skill acquisition to shot metrics. This is the Coach Dave Love Podcast. Welcome to the Coach Dave Love Podcast. I am your host, Matt Robertson, with me as always NBA Shooting Coach Dave Love. Dave, what's going on this week? Oh my goodness. I have so much going on this week while actually intense. So I did clinics in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada. I think we had like 300 kids through clinics in basically a day and a half. It was bananas. I'm now working on the revisions to a research paper that we've submitted. I'm trying to solve a technical problem on data collection and then supporting the NBA team that I'm working for. So it's a lot. It's been quite the week. Just keeping the balls in the air. I'm shocked you by 300 kids in Saskatoon. I thought that was the population of Saskatoon. Just kept for all this Saskatchewan. Saskatchewan, I can say Saskatchewanians. Yeah. But Dave, we have a super special guest today. I'm going to let you do the intro of the career before we jump into it. Why don't you fire me out? Yeah, this is Hannah Mettola. Am I pronouncing it? Hannah, am I getting your name close like is that? Yeah. How would a rich person say it? Which the two ends. So it's Hannah. But a lot of North Americans go with the one one in Hannah. That's that's fine. And last name, you know, I've heard a lot of butchering. So mentalized the right graduation. But we're going on that I'm hurting. So Hannah Mettola is just fine. You you have by far the most dots over vowels in any name of any guess that we've had. Like it's not even close. So congratulations on that record. Thank you. Yeah. I told I probably only Phoenix athlete who actually asked those dots on the jerseys. We got all the NHL players and they never have the dots, you know, so like like Daniel Mochelle and Tamas Alana that, you know, he's supposed to have that. But so I always, if it was a Eurolead or NBA or college, I always asked first grade go to the franer or you know, you got to put the dots out there. So great to total different letters. We have an O and A, but then we have an O and A. So we have two exolators. Actually three, you know, from me. And forgive me for being an ignorant North American. What is the correct name of the accent versus calling them the dots? I guess it's I guess it's umla. I just German. I guess it's a home. Yeah. So I guess that's the situation. I give people. Okay. Well, I appreciate you explaining that to me. Let me explain to people for the people who don't know who you are. Hano played for Rick Majaris with the Utah Ud's from 96 to 2000. Was the 40th pick in the NBA draft to the Atlanta Hawks played a couple of years with the Hawks. And then another 11 years over in Europe. Yeah. Yeah. I moved back to play Eurolead and then finished my finished my career at home. And then yeah, they kind of jumped right in, posting 10 years ago. And tell us about your coaching jobs that you've had over the last 15 years or so. Yeah. Well, yeah, for the last 12 years, I've worked, basically worked for the Finnish Capital Federation. We started, well, we started our own high school Federation-led academy in much in the shape of Australia, center of excellence in Kenba or the inset in front of the older model of inset. And so those were kind of some of the places that the Federation people benchmarked when we started the Helsinki Passable Academy. So I, yeah, so I jumped right in there and been doing that first two years. I was still playing. So I was kind of, you know, doing it on the side of the end of the last 10 years when I retired 2014 after the FIFA World Cup. Next week I was there coaching and being full-time for 10 years. And now I've decided to be fall to step away from that. And so I'm kind of, you know, self-forced, unemployed, kind of taking your 10-year, 10-year means or a gap year, whatever you want to call it. But since 2019, I've been with the main national team. So I've, so I'm asking with that. So we're getting ready for the European Championships. We're actually hosting one of the opening pools here. So that's obviously, you know, being one look forward to this next summer. Hano, can you explain for people the people, can you explain to the people that might not understand what the Helsinki Passable Academy or the Center of Excellence in Australia, what those are and what they look like and explain that? Well, basically it's probably good start. What is the goal? An absolute chance to visit Kenber this fall. You know, their goal is to develop the Mainz of Women's National Team Player for the Passable Australia. Our goal at HBO is to develop Mainz and Women's Senior National Team Player. You know, that's the end goal. So it's a kind of Olympic Committee Federation and the CD-funded program. Basically, you know, we try to recruit the best future talent, not necessarily who's great at one of those entering high school. Because we all know, you know, you have some players who are still really, really good at age of 16, but it's not too hard to figure out that in two years, you know, he's, you know, he's, he's a, approach he's, he's ceiling. So that's the model. We recruit the players in. It's a right to attach to the biggest sports high school in the country, say when I went to and what other great athletes, Olympic athletes. So it's a really good environment about thousand students. We just build a new Helsinki Olympic Printing Center. We have a beautiful world class. Basketball facilities. So basketball is one of the five top sports that the facility and the, you know, kind of the Olympic Committee in that center is putting resources in. So, yeah, so it's a players, they lead their junior clubs. So they don't play their junior clubs anymore. And the team plays in the second highest Mainz League in Finland. And that's, that's basically what HBA is. Um, Pano, can you help me understand again, as an average Canadian who, who doesn't really have ties to, to finish basketball? What is the demographics of those excellence programs? Are they mostly finish league professional players or junior league or junior players? Or are they yearly players? Like what is the sort of demographic that you're working with here? Well, it's based purely high school age kids. So yeah, so their high school age kids, so they might come in. They might be still 15 but turning 16. And when they graduate, usually they're 19 years old. And a lot of them might go to college. That was part of my job is also to kind of handle our players including for the last 10 plus years. Um, and then, you know, in the best years, we had five guys go to division one. Um, you know, and then, um, and then, um, we also, I was a lot of them play for the junior national teams and best play, best guys, or start being part of the senior national team. Didn't they were senior year in high school, like louder, more than or me, got young, or several others. So, um, yeah, so, you know, I then, I kind of got to, I mean, I have a, I told people, you know, it's a greatest job. You can have an in Finland coaching basketball because to know, I get coached these guys in high school, like louder, more than and then yeah, he become an NBA all star, but then I still have chance to coach him at the European Championships or World Championships when, when they're about. So it's a, it's a pretty cool deal and, uh, had a lot of fun and learn a lot. You know, I felt like, personal development now it's time to, look for, uh, for something else, whatever it is. And, and, and Hano, these, uh, you said these, players, youth players play in the finish, one of the divisions of the finished domestic league. Did your career kind of start the same way, or you were a young professional, uh, in a local league? Um, yeah. So HBA is pure, so it's a pure, high school team and they, we play, but now they, they play, the second highest monthly here. It's just so much, same high professional lead. Some teams might have three Americans. So our 17 year old center, my go against a 28 year old American who played that, you know, might be a high major school, but you know, maybe it could really, and also he's playing in the second highest league in Finland. When I was coming out in the, you know, early, early 90s, I played two years in the top league, you know, just purely as a one of our, you know, just young guys amongst adults. And obviously it was a really good, you know, kind of a phase for me for two years, play that during my last couple years of high school. And then I left Finland to go to college. So that was kind of my path the last couple years. - Do you remember how, how, how we got connected? Like I feel like this was now like five or six years ago. And we talked every few months. - Let's start. - I think, I think mutual friend Peter Lonergan in Australia, probably Peter, I mean, such a great guy. I think he probably, we might have been in something blue, blue, blue, green, it's probably free orbit or even stuff. And we were in some of the old and I've always been extremely interested in open minded about shooting as kind of natural being part of, really part of my career. And then, you know, I wanted to start following you and reading and then one of the tests you were kind of, get to know you through the Zoom meetings and phone calls, you know, it's been a blast. - I appreciate you saying that. Yeah, you've been one of those. You said a simple word, open minded. And I think that's one of those often overlooked character traits that leads to exceptional. And I've always enjoyed chatting with you and learning from you and sharing with you just because of that mindset. And I think just to go back to Peter Lonergan, probably the most generous coach I've ever been around just as far as like he seems to be in it for the sport and just trying to connect as many people as he can and trying to do right by as many people as he can. He's just a wonderful person. - Oh, I mean, he hosted my, in my first week in my Australian tape, I was in Alton, there. And I'm able to blast, you know, he was with him and he made sure I met every people. You know, I wanted to meet and talk to you. And I mean, yeah, like I said, it's one of those, diamonds in our profession, our organ. And obviously Australia. And just see how much people admire and enjoy him in his, you know, not only in Canberra, but around Australia, it's a, yeah. - So, Hannah, can you take, what do I keep wanted to throw at you with the end? Hannah, can you talk to me about your journey in shooting? Like a beginning as a player, but then transferring as a coach and I know through our conversations, you really have interest in this particular skill within the game. Can you talk about that? - Yeah, I mean, I think, let me not stupid as someone, but I've always throwing, you know, basketball throwing, you know, baseball throwing, you know, even it, you know, I'm not a football or, you know, it's kind of just that mechanics is becoming easy. And that's why I started my career. It was hard to, my coach is hard to understand why some, for some people, it doesn't come easy. Like just, you know, and, and, you know, so, but I wasn't, you know, when I grew up, you know, in early 90s, I mean, no one was really taking threes and definitely not big guys. So, you know, but I just kind of start just kind of jacking them up and then, you know, decent, I don't know what my first thing is, he's wearing high school, but then luckily, got to college and Keith Van Horn was, I was the main guy at the Utah at that time. You know, I had a, you know, chance to play with Keith for my, for my first year. We only one year apart, age-wise, but he, you know, he was two years early in the college. And the whole Utah program was basically running seen the little stagdard, even people screen his far Keith. And then I kind of landed in the spot in my last three years. So I, for three years, I mean, played for one of the, I mean, most, you know, incredible teachers over game, you know, Rick Majer's and the whole system was, you know, setting different kind of screens for me. So guards were sitting down, setting down screens, staggers for big guys in our system. It was myself, Michael Dolly, I Keith Van Horn was there, Alex Jensen, you know, now a system with the Dallas Mavericks. So the big guys were shooters at Utah. So we were, I mean, truly 15, 20 years ahead of our time, especially in college, you still don't find college where four and five and three months are the best shooter, basically. So we were, you know, kind of a special, special group. So looking at all the techniques, foot techniques, what I love, you know, two, the huge thing, the three thos, the most important stuff in the back, the double basketball and two that, that shot, she'll like some kills you quicker than anything in basketball. Those other court and judges, my first, he still holds through, you know, 25 years later. So I'll appreciate shooting and working on it. But yes, 25 years later, we share a lot more about how to become a better shooter, but I was lucky to learn to that special system because he's an actor that could have been just guy who sets those screens to guards. For, and I was, you know, I was lucky. I played with Andre Miller for three years. So when you were coming off those stathers, that ball was coming right in the shop pocket, not here, here, and here. So yeah, it was a, it was a, in a lot of ways, that a dream, dream spot for a big guy who wanted to become a shooter. -Hano, in our pre-show, you said a thing that was really interesting to me, but in your career, what did you, how many threes per game did you average as a shooter? -I, yeah, I had to, we had a talk with Dave a couple of days ago. And so I had to go back and, I think in Utah, I mean, you were only, I took about 2.3 shots of game. And in the early hours, 40% three points shooter. And at that time, I was just, you know, stretched four, or if I was playing five, I was just, and I was, like I was putting up a lot of threes. But most I ever took was maybe three and a half. Once he's not took about three and a half in your league. -And you know, I'll be checking up 20 years later. I would be checking up, you know, 10 to 10 is a game. -So times have changed. I guess today's coaches are players that understand the threes more than two, but, you know, it's a different era. And, you know, coming out of college, the NBA, you know, I certainly know that in that 2000 draft class, I was probably one of the better big-minded shooters. But still, like, when I got to Atlanta, it wasn't like, I was put to, yeah, let's start working on that NBA three. I think I take probably 13 threes in two years. I mean, whatever 160 games. So, yeah, different times. But I didn't know. It's not a kind of, I used to be finally stabbed in the NBA. And I still remember, like, I mean, Dave Laiber didn't make it. I think he's mostly ever made a game. It was like a one point something for the game. -And he's considered the one that based the average shooters. -Right. -Yeah. I mean, I might be forgot something, but I think that's my right. So, it's a different game these days. But I did nothing. A lot of that, my pretend came to, I was taught, what is a good shot? And, like, my brain, whether it's my strength or weakness, I kind of refuse to take a match on. So, I probably stopped a lot of shots that the guys would be able to check up. And, you know, probably they would pass up the net sky. So, yeah, shot your legs and, you know, and getting the techniques and, you know, that really, I finally had the knowledge that not that I was able to do. not shoot from a bad, not, you know, take a bad shot. If there's someone else is open, that's how you get the percentages up, but obviously you wanna be a volume shooter, you can't care about those. - I'm wondering, I went and I looked after our conversation. The current analytics, the threes are more valuable than twos. Did not hold true in the first 10 years of the three point line that in the 80s and the early 90s, it was 10 years before we had the first season where a three point shot at the NBA average, compared to a two point shot at the NBA average, were the same. And then from there it started to, the three point shot eclipsed the value of the two point shot, but it then took like what, 25 years for people, the greater basketball population to realize, I don't know what my larger point in further in the conversation wasn't sharing that, but after our conversation I was like, oh wow, okay, that was true in the beginning, but then it took us forever to realize that it wasn't true anymore. - It is really interesting if you look at this sort of generation and somebody, so I'm 36 and I lived through dial up internet to high speed internet where we had no internet and that we're using the phone line for internet and all we had wireless with no phone line. And I feel like guys like Kyle Corver sort of is that version of, from a three point standpoint where when he got into the league, it's dial up, it's pre-internet where he's taken three and a half a game and that is crazy, we can't even fathom him taking four threes a game, that's nuts. And then at the end of his career, when he's the fifth option and he's taken seven a game, they're like, oh, let's see if we can get Kyle some more threes here, you know, he's in full on high speed internet, but this generation experienced that at kind of break neck pace, it is just fascinating to watch. Like I played professionally in 2012 in Canada. I am only a shooter, it's the only skill I can do at this level and it was a little early for me. So my value just existing on the floor wasn't, I think it was appreciated, you know, but it was like four or five years early to be somebody who only spaces the floor providing value from a spacing perspective. So super fascinating journey, Hano in that respect. - Yeah, and then obviously thanks to Steph Curry. I mean, I mean, in my mind, he's the player that probably changed the game more than anyone at least in the modern game. He didn't do them. Because right now, you know, like an RV, there's probably a little too many threes taken, for example, in the NBA, when we just saw the game last week, what 97 threes were taken. And because there's a lot of shooters guys who put up shots, so I mean, shot makers are there. So it's, I mean, because it just, I mean, 10 years ago, everybody just wanted to go, you know, just go in the bucket and go for it down. No, everybody goes for a free point shot. So it's, by just, you know, everything kind of goes in a circle, but it's just gonna see when coaches are forcing teams to be more efficient behind the free point line. - Fellas, we've been going for a little while. Let's take a quick break, but I want to dig back into that when we come back from this. Hey there, basketball fans. I'm NBA shooting coach Dave Love, and I've got exciting news just for you. Introducing my exclusive free basketball shooting newsletter, is packed with insights and techniques straight from the hardwood. Have you ever wondered how NBA players improve their shots? Or how you could get to the next level, whether you're a college player, a coach or a budding youth player? My newsletter brings all this and more directly to your inbox. Each edition is a deep dive into the world of basketball shooting. I'll share some of the tips and ideas that I use with my NBA clients, tailored for every level of the game, but wait, there's more. Subscribers receive exclusive monthly discounts on my online products. From training videos to personalized coaching sessions, you'll get it all for fraction of the price. And the best part of all is absolutely free to join. So what are you waiting for? Elevate your game and join a community of passionate players and coaches from around the globe. Signing up is easy. Just visit coachdavelove.com. All right, welcome back. Hannah, before we went to break, you asked a really important question about when do coaches kind of reign this in? And the analytics people in the front office say, never because you can't shoot enough threes, Rio Grande Valley shot, 75%, or whatever the number was of their field goals as threes. Do you see an end in sight there? When is it for you? When does that break even point? When have we gone too far? I mean, for me, it's like it's pure math. I mean, we all every coach will say, you shoot 50% two point field goals. Everybody takes it. So what is that? That's 33%. So you don't really have to be a great 3-point shooter. It's obviously the same points per shot. But I think just it has unfortunate taken a little bit away from the beauty of a game. So many people are just jacking up threes. But I think we are about to head to that direction where coaches are-- they understand that even at the NBA level, they cannot let everybody just put up threes. Because the percentages are not there. Like in that shot, I can remember what team's were. It was 22 out of 97, I believe. The two teams were combined. But I think what is interesting, like from coaching standpoint, which is, you ask me 10 years ago, it was like, no, crazy, absolutely not, is that the understanding that it doesn't really matter in the shot clock. If it's a good three, you've got to take it at a high level. I'm talking about a fever high level NBA. So like a free-- fast break, free on two fast break. You pick it to a wing. That you will not get a better shot. 15 seconds later, even though how great X-Z always you can draw. So understand that that is the three that we do want to take. Even though 20 years ago, I would have been absolutely murdered. If I were taking that three, I mean, I can rest his soul. But what Rick and James were said, I mean, it's not for this podcast. So it kind of accepted that reality that open three is a good three. And actually to take on a quote from my good friend and now the first assistant for Memphis Grizzlies, Thomas E. Sala, that finish, great finish coach. Just one, the Euro cup last year with the best. And he's seen the Euro. I think very interesting, very simple rule. But if the defense cannot alter your shot, meaning that if you don't have to speed up your motion, you can put up your normal shot. It doesn't matter how close the defense is. Like they're handing a face. That doesn't matter. So they practice for them. If you have one step away, but you can take your own three, normal three, it's just as open shot for them as there will be no defense. So if you go back to a little bit basketball last year or he's good, I mean, you see a lot of phenomenal coaches, contested dreams. But for them, it's a normal shot because they know how close the defense has to be to actually alter the shot. So that's also like what is an open shot? Well, 20 years ago, no one can be even five step from you. But now it's-- if I can go through my normal shot, I don't have to hurry. That's a good shot. So yeah, it would be interesting. There's now obviously a lot of talking to media, too many threes taken. But yeah, I would say in the next couple of years, it's probably going to maybe level off a little bit soon. You are right, is a very kind of topical in the moment conversation. We had Chris Oliver on the podcast a couple of times, basketball immersion. And he said something to me that stuck with me from the first episode where he said, team culture will often dictate what is a good shot in a bad shot. And I had never really thought about it in that way. I was always like, oh, as somebody who thinks the game well, I always-- that just felt like a bad shot. And that felt like a good shot. But if team culture is saying that this step back pull up in transition is a good three, then guys are going to continue to take it because their teammates are going, good pull, great look. And so for the coaches out there, I think like you're about establishing if you don't have to rush, if you don't have to change the mechanics of your shot, if that is what your definition is, you do have to set almost guidelines or feelings around that, you know what I mean? Yeah, absolutely. I always have to change so much. And what is it again, what is it that's a great great say that this pretty said, you know that that it's a you need to have a culture what is a good shot and I was looking at those teams who put up, you know, 10 guys out of 15 just putting up every three pointer they can. Then that is the culture. That probably was a little X come into play these days. And so, you know, sometimes mid range, you know, I'm still like fully understand that the mid range is is the worst shot mathematically. But then if you look at the history of NBA. How many best top scorers in history top 10 scores are not mid range shooter. There are many. I mean, even carrying, carrying spy hook was a 10 15 putter. So I mean, you look at I mean, no, which ski, you know, obviously MJ, I mean, LeBron is kind of the only one who's not a really mid range. I mean, part of alone everybody's a mid range shooter. So like I and I kind of joke like I kind of, you know, built my current house with either three point or shot faith, one dribble pull up. You know, I master that, you know, because it's pretty toward end of my career. I didn't want to go there. I didn't want to, you know, get up, you know, my, my, my down to that high anymore. So so that was the if you. But again, can everybody take that pull up? No, just like everybody should not be taking every shot they get. And you talked about passion for shooting, just kind of shifting the conversation a little bit. Where, what are the resources? Like I get asked us all the time, what are the resources you go to with a growth mindset to help you improve how you teach shooting. Well, probably talk to talk to you and follow someone like yourself. Obviously, just like probably every player, my first couple years of coaching, I coach it that way I was taught, you know, and, and then. Luckily, we have a, we have a free. It's got an open minded coaching culture in Finland. We understand that we, especially in a lot of sports, but in basketball, you want to be really good. We have only 22,000 licensed basketball players in Finland. You know, let's go Australia, 750,000 friends, one million. I don't know how many Canada has. So we're never going to have the best roster, it's mathematically possible. But there's no reason why we can't be the best coaches in Europe. So we are free hungry to learn and we know we cannot be stuck into our own ways, our old ways. So, so I'll be kind of, and I guess. I know my, my pretty good playing career and my personality. I'm like, I don't mind telling people that, you know, the classical quote that every day I know that I know less. So I'm like, I'm searching for like, I don't mind saying like, hey, I'm not into, it took me a couple of years, but, but even to play as like. It's okay to say, I don't know. Let's, let's figure out this together. So, so yeah, the first couple years were just very mechanical, you know, one on zero. Let's, you know, everything is there was a perfect shot. Just like to tell them how people that there is no perfect shot, but absolutely there was a perfect shot in my mind. Because that was the way I was, I was taught. And I'm kind of going there still something to that that I think still believe that you should get that. That if you can, you know, in a normal, you know, right left, you know, you know, two steps stop if you can't curl nice elbow jumper and go, you know, go and go again and get a shot. You know, without defense. I mean, it should look pretty good. You probably can have a lot of trouble if we start adding constraints and defense. But, but, so I think there's a lot to that that yes, you should have a good base and kind of those fundamentals, but obviously it's not that you've got to work in those. Along enough, I know you graduate now we can start adding difficulty. No, you know, a lot of constraints early on, but still. So I, yes, and so I, you know, like it to internet it's it's it can be a great friend for for 100 coaches and obviously it can also be, you know, there's, you know, it's a hard place to if you don't, if you don't kind of understand that there's so much information and and like a lot of a lot of smart people say, I mean, if you do everything that it tells you, you know, you have no. You don't have a identity, you just trying things left and right. So, yeah, so trying out a lot of things and I kind of learned to start asking questions from the players, how do you feel, how does that feel early on my court, I was telling like, no, you should know to this, you know, that wouldn't right. To do this, then I see questions and kind of, you know, lead them to the red string kind of the right answer, I want. But if they feel like, yeah, that feel actually good, well then let's let's keep on working on that. So. So, yeah, I mean, it's and it's been a fun journey to kind of always, you know, maybe take a couple of players every year. Obviously, you know, we have team practice and and and that, you know, and team setting and all that, but obviously, understanding more and more that shooting is, we're like, you know, Adam K porn was the head coach at the center of excellence and now now it's just in coaching NBA, what's trail I mean, I think he said the best that the shooting is the only master skill in basketball. And kind of from that, that was probably around the same time we probably, my personal like five years ago, probably when Adam said it, at least when I heard it like I started approaching the okay, we start planning for practice. Well, normal way, we do it again. We have the warm up drills here, we have the defensive shell all that transition 505 and then okay, let's shoot in the middle here, let's shoot there and then the end. What if we, if it is actually the most important skill in the game of basketball, what if that's the first thing, okay, now we're going to practice shooting scoring here, here and here, and let's do a little bit of ball screen deeper than the middle, little bit of like, like that's in your talks, just in your coaching meeting, let's make that the most important. I was trying to push it, you know, in my own and then in our staff, you know, and the bites of obviously to process. And obviously players are, players enjoy a lot more when they when they see improvements. We had some, you know, the stories of them, some guys who, who, you know, at least, you know, we might help or are having really free, but that's that's life. Who said something about the positives and the drawbacks of the internet and sort like you've now got a mountain of information and access to wonderful information, but unfortunately part of that mountain is also that that less helpful information, Matt and I always kind of joke about there's, there's, there's, there's, there's, there's people on Instagram that have a ton of followers. And, and we'll share their opinion of ideas that the research absolutely does not back up what they're, they're suggesting. And how do you practically like, can you give give people an idea of like, how do you sort through. This person has 500,000 Instagram followers and this drill seems to make a lot of sense. Like how what's your process for figuring out is this gold or is this garbage. That's, you know, and they might be always be a little, little piece of gold in that garbage. or. Oh right. So that is kind of. I use to follow more some trainingers. a little more. But once I started kind of understanding that a lot of that one on zero is. You know? It's great if our game was, you know, was tässäedy. like I was figure skating, you know? That move, that one on that move was beautiful. You got 2.4 points for that. You know? Like, like, so. So. Like, like. And that's the way I was started. And that's obviously like I coach. you know, individual skill early on my career, like, hey, 100, no constraints. Let's go through this same and same again and again until I kind of, you know, understand that you're never going to have the same shock twice in your career, never or even same layup. You know, like, why? Why does 99.9 percent of multiple teams in the world, their warbuck is 45 degree of layup? Because how many times, unless you're a U10 player, how many of those you have in your season? So, you know, so I still kind of like start, you know, changing the warm-ups and things like that, but it's hard because a lot of times, you know, at least what I believe are good advices. They don't look cool. They don't have, you know, all the bling-bling and, you know, it's tough. It's tough and especially if you're a young coach, you know, and you want to, you want to obviously impress the players and try to teach them, help them something that looks cool because you know the players are watching a lot of the trainers and in-camp, something good to offer, but they're, you know, they want to learn those moves, but then if you ask them, all right, how many times this season, or past season, let's go, let's go to see them, if you let's take every single of your shots. How many, you know, double crossover step-by-trees, you took last season? All right, so why would you work on it? You have no problem working in your own, but like that's not the one who's going to get your college scholarship or get you to junior national team or get you to yearly. That's not the one. It's the, you know, the normal looking shots. It's not as sexy. So it is, but obviously you know, throw some, you know, some cool and fun stuff for the players and let them also dictate, hey, well, what they want to work on, but it's, it's, social media is, it's tough to navigate for sure as a coach. As one of the first things you said about yourself is the open-minded piece and you saying even with all the garbage, there's pieces of golden there is proof of that. So thank you very much for that. Secondly, just, we're going to go to a break here in a second, but Dave and I were talking a couple of weeks ago about shooting spots. And Hano, when you were at Utah and when you were just getting work up, you're doing spots and you get the rebound or under the hoop and they're kicking out to you and you're knocking down your open threes, how amazing did that feel? One time every three games were the big guy, you're, the other big gets an offensive rebound and kicks out to you for an open three and it feels so comfortable because you've taken that shot one million times, but it's once every three games. And Dave has really opened my eyes and this line of thinking has really opened my eyes that we need to add variability to all of these guys training because like you said, no shot is the same. Even that kick out that's directly from under the hoop is at an angle that's slightly different than I'm used to shooting or the footwork was a little weird or whatever it is. So yeah, thank you very much for that. It really is just banging home all these kinds of things that we've been talking about. Hano, this is great. 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Use the promo code podcast 20 at checkout to save 20% on any of the shot development systems. Don't miss this chance to train like the pros. Visit coach Dave Love dot com slash store and take your first step towards shooting success. That's coach Dave Love dot com slash store. So Hano and for new listeners, hammer action is the segment of the episode where we hammer home some actionable items. And we have really had a free flowing conversation. We've covered the evolution of the three point shot. Your evolution is a player as a coach. Dave, I'm going to start with you from our 40-ish minute conversation, 50 minute congress. We can never stay under an hour. What is an actionable item here that we can kind of go to to say, you know what, this is a piece here that people should be thinking about once they turn it over to the next podcast. Can I can I flip this a little bit? Can I ask a guided question to to Hano to get to help him with his hammer action and then maybe he can do the same for for me. So Hano, what if you could take your knowledge and let's let's go in the shooting realm. Your knowledge of shooting and shooting development that you have now. And go back and teach it to yourself in your first year of coaching. What would be the one or two things that you would teach yourself to do differently than you actually started? Obviously not trying to teach a perfect shot. That would probably be a thing. But you know, kind of what you've been saying numerous times, you know, our conversations and your podcasts that just to be more adaptable because I'm a kind of living proof. If I was open coming off those unbelievable downstreams, especially 25 years ago in college, you can set a monster screens at no cost. I mean, I got my right life for real life for a long time. It was it was pretty good. But I was never able to take those little bit uncomfortable shots in my career because we never practiced those because it was not a good shot. So more adaptable and less like Max said, less passing on the main phone basket. You know, the target's got to come up with something. If it's a fair shooting, somehow don't pass from on the basket. That's how we have we have taught and we have all trained, you know, our whole lives. And I believe that's one reason why we kind of limiting red mouths. 45% should be looking like the top that our humans can shoot at 3s, but I don't believe. There's going to be a 60% 3 point shooter. So yeah, definitely that's one. And then, um, yeah, overall be be more open minded to that every player in their bodies are different. Body mechanics are different. Don't try to put them into this one mold, which you were taught and something that can't be easy to you. Yes, I mean, I have some of those non-negotiables. Like I'm I'm huge on the balance and the footwork of being a wild and I think, you know, so I think those are probably probably the ones don't look for perfect shot and then understanding more quicker that that that every people are different. Their shot is the same. It's kind of a signature. It's the idea of you as a basketball player. And so, um, so I think that would speed up the process of helping those young players, um, you know, if a new dad, you know, same place, you already go. One of the things we kind of pride our cell phone in the the podcast is being, uh, being willing to be vulnerable and being willing to admit, uh, fault, not fault, um, admit, Matt, what what am I trying to weakness? It's not ignorance. It's just sometimes you don't know. Sometimes it's weak. Just sometimes it's something I was doing poorly that or differently than less optimally than I should be. Yeah. And and we we try and normalize that and, uh, and my my answers are going to be almost identical to, uh, to yours. And and even to, if I can go to an extreme, Matt and I have been doing this podcast now for a year. And I think one of our next episodes is going to be something that the along along the lines of I disagree with me. And let's go back to just things that I said eight months ago, then I'm like, uh, new thinking on that. And uh, and I think we should always to your point, we should always be striving for that. We avoid that actively. And I think we should be striving for that kind of, I know I want to learn more and along the way, I'm probably going to change my thinking on different things and disagree with my old self. - Yeah, no, I feel really, and I think I had a little bit what I say, like, I mean, overall, that only on the baseball, I mean, the shooting, coaching shooting, overall, everything, I mean, it's not until, like, last really last couple of years I've truly understood that, I mean, it doesn't matter what I know at all about a game plan, about whatever, when you ask the player, how does that feel? How do you understand this? So that's the only thing I'm, so I call it, I call it, you know, we kind of talk about it, I call it "Ella by Coaching". That's when I tell you everything I know, we tell everything about their opponent, and then when we can't get it done, you know, I can go back in the field room and, you know, field meeting, offer practice and yell, "The player, good day." We told you this is going to be a game. Well, they weren't able to execute it because they understood it differently, you know, and then they did it again, but that's what you have five players. They don't understand every single word you say, those five players are going to understand differently. You know, one-on-one shooting, if we're teaching shooting, what I tell the player, he's going to understand it. He feels it a lot differently, so it's like, it's almost like trying to get the player to coach themself and just be listening there and asking questions. I think that's when the player kind of opens up, and he becomes, he understands that he's kind of vulnerable to this and he opens up and don't fight against maybe a change. When you turn around and make him like, he feels that he's the one who's coaching himself. So that's what I said. I never said I helped that guy or I coached that guy on what they, I was lucky to be part of the key development. Good, that's the truth. - Right. I feel like Hannah's dropped two bombs, the alibi coaching and the figure skating scoring between those two, those will definitely be long featured clips on Twitter. - Yeah. Yeah. I told you, I mean, really quick, because I was, I was, I was this person. Well, yesterday, actually, I was, I was, I visited our fitness, our gymnastics national team, friends because they have a, you know, coach and all that just following them for three hours. Because it is a sport where they need the perfection. And I talked to the coach about it like, like, it's fine, like you guys are, you have to go for the perfection because the move is saying every time. And then our, ours is, there is no perfection. We don't know the environment that action has to be executed out. So we just have to be kind of guessing and, and showing, you know, more and more opportunities for the players to adapt to different situations. So it was very interesting to follow them and how, how open-minded they are. And they're, they're the athletes where they were coaching themselves. So coaches said very little in three hours, which was fascinating. And I promised myself, like, hey, next, to shut up, the next practice, just try to be quiet for five minutes. Because in our, at least in our practice, it's, some coaches always on the eight. Let's go, we have good, good, good, good. Let's go. What are we, if we shut off and let the players? Because we think that we should be opening them out and explaining and making sure that everybody understands that we can coach. How, I mean, the, I mean, you know, like the, and then this, this, this, that domestic coach told me like, like, hey, for him, the biggest town and wisdom of coaching is to be quiet. And that's, that's, yeah, that's gymnastics. But I, you know, and you look at the really, really good coach. They're not the rounder coaches work. They said, new words. I usually give the quick forward to the player. Because they know they'll have to help those players during the week. And play was going to take care of again. I'm going to say something. I love that you brought up the gymnastics. When we were having that conversation a couple of days ago, I thought this needs to be a part of the podcast. And then I forgot about it. So I'm glad he brought it up. I'm going to say something that I think would make one of my skill acquisition mentors very proud. And suggest that even though the gymnast is striving for the perfect movement, the way that they might learn that would involve, could involve far more differential learning than we anticipate. And that if I were to teach somebody knowing nothing about gymnastics, how to do like a front flip on the balance beam, I might start by saying, I want you to fall off on the left side on this one. I want you to fall off on the right side. I want you to under rotate this one without killing yourself if that's possible. And over rotate this one. And to your point about there is no perfect way to stop rehearsing the perfect shot. I'm looking back at my form shooting drills that we featured in an episode of the podcast not long ago and saying, do I need to either dramatically reduce the amount that I use this? I think that's the answer or eliminate these all together. And that they're designed around like the perfect movement. That-- so that's what's going on in my head is teach the mistakes more to guide towards all the movement solutions and don't teach the ideal motion. And it's freaking hard. It scares me to death. Yeah. And I think I wasn't the greatest shooting coach early, but I still understood that there is no quick fix. Like it's few years when you go from a high school edge average shooter to a good shooter at a adult level or getting rid of that. It takes a couple of years for sure, three, four years to reach something that becomes a fluent. And so there's no easy-- there's no easy, easy, quick prizes here, but to guide the players into red direction. And then again, you've got to shoot. That's-- there's no substitution to that. I'm not saying that they go being a gym in your own and putting up thousands shot today. It's not the perfect view. But to understand that there needs to be a lot of constraint like shooting different-- in a lot of ways, one on one is the greatest shooting drill there is. And they're putting little different nods that's into there, some rules, which I like to coach. We should manipulate the environment that the players are playing. For me, that like-- I understand constraint-late approach. For me, it sounds a little-- at least when I try to tell it in a translate to finish, I like to use-- I try to manipulate the environment of a drill. For me, it's easier to understand, at least, maybe I'm not a scientific person enough. But anyway, meaning the same thing. So you find those at 101 drills and now have lucky to talk to some great coaches. And just easy 101 drills where-- where they're the-- there's a damage. And there's maybe a shot-- restrict shot, plot restriction. That's how you get the best game shots. That's game shooting. You might only get 30 shots compared to 300 if you just putting up threes. But I believe those 30 shots are more valuable than those can empty shots. Wallity over quantity when it comes to game representativeness is something that we appreciate and definitely hammer home. Dave, anything else you want to cover here? Hano, this has been an absolute delight. Yeah, connect with Hano. We got to figure out a way to number one, get him over to North America more often. And Hano, I'm looking at being in Europe potentially in April. And so just know I'll be making a phone call in the next week or so to-- well, Christmas time. Next two weeks or so to see if there's an opportunity on us doing something together on that Coach Dave loved to sign up for the newsletter. But yeah, Hano, how do people find you? Wow, I try to actually downgrade on my social media. I'm more kind of just following. but this is just my first name last name on Instagram. You can shoot email me at baskets.fi as a Finland's a handle at basket.fi. And I love to connect with people usually. I like more than they do for me. So I always say, so it's always a positive return for me. Be careful giving out your email on this podcast because you will literally get dozens of emails. Well, they're not changing because you're too much of a burden. Yeah, no, it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure. Oh, we could definitely. But that's for another time. I love it. Thanks for the time, buddy. How do people find you? I am Matt Robertson. I'm LinkedIn at Coach Maddie Rob on X Twitter. Shout out to all the listeners who stuck with us to the end. We'll appreciate your time. Please rate your views. Subscribe to our friend. Shout out to my cat Griffin who really wanted to be a part of this episode. And I had to shoot them away seven times. Thanks for sticking with us. Dave, you're the best. Hano, a pleasure. And everybody else. See us next week. Thank you for joining us on today's episode of the Coach Dave Love Podcast. To stay up to date with our future episodes, please remember to hit the subscribe button on your favorite podcast platform. Don't forget to sign up for Coach Loves Free, shooting newsletter on coachdavelove.com. And be sure to follow him on social media. You can find him at Coach Dave Love.